View Full Version : What next?: '06 Front Office Offseason Plans (merged)
Kulish29
10-21-05, 01:33 PM
What do you mean by defensive catcher? I've heard 2 definitions. The first is a catcher who blocks a lot of balls and has a strong throwing arm. The second is someone who "calls a good game"/handles pitchers well.
I think the first is overrated. Posada led the majors with 8 passed balls this year. 3 or 4 guys are tied for fewest allowed at 3 passed balls for a difference of 5. This is a shot in the dark, but I'd guess 5 passed balls would account for 1 or 2 runs over the course of a season, which is miniscule.
A strong throwing arm is probably something catchers can use to talk smack amongst themselves, but it just isn't valuable these days when teams don't run as much.
The second can be very valuable. I heard somewhere that the best "pitch framers" can steal 10-15 strikes per game for their pitchers, which is a huge advantage (average game = 250 pitches). I've heard Gregg Zaun was great at this but don't know of any others. If we had a catcher who could do these things, I'd pay up for him (reasonably) even if he did have a lousy bat.
From the scouting reports I've read, he's both. Pitchers love the way he calls games and he's agile behind the plate. A lot of teams were hot on him last offseason and the offseason before last IIRC.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 01:36 PM
If some team is gullable enough to think that Small can do it again, then hey, I'm for trading him for a player who can help. I just dont think it will happen.
There are 29 teams. Somebody will offer SOMEthing for him. If its a C level prospect, I'd take it.
I never said that a player past his prime never gets traded for anything of value. What I'm saying is, teams are a lot smarter now. I like Posada and everything he's done for the Yankees organization. But facts are facts. He's a player on the decline who has an ugly contract.
He is on the decline, thats true. But he's still well above average offensively at C. And the team I'm talking about trading him to was last in the league in offense last year. He has a bad contract, but we could pick up a chunk of it to facilitate a move.
I've had the PLEASURE of watching him out here for the Dodgers, and off the field he is a very articulate and down to earth guy. I think his intensity on the field say a lot about his desire to win and like a few folks have said, he has the tools to make it, he just needs to harness that energy and focus on the task at hand. That's why we have Joe Torre.
I'm on board the Bradley train for sure.
i agree with this, i think that bradley's on the field antics have been way overhyped by the media. and all i think it shows is that this guy is extremely passionate about the game and winning. if there is one guy who could control him and get his head in the right spot it would be torre. bradley in centerfield would be a great move. on that note, NO FRIGGIN' WAY DO WE GIVE UP CANO! to reiterate what everyone has said that would just be takin steps backwards. its been made very clear that this team needs to get younger, so trading him would simply be doing the polar opposite of that, you have to be kidding me. i hated seeing soriano leave, but gettin AROD in return and knowing we had cano in the system made it a little easier. we don't have the same excuse now, management better not let this happen.
El Moose
10-21-05, 01:43 PM
From the scouting reports I've read, he's both. Pitchers love the way he calls games and he's agile behind the plate. A lot of teams were hot on him last offseason and the offseason before last IIRC.
Oh OK. If that's the case, I'd probably be willing to wave goodbye to Duncan + Chacon + Melky, but only if he's indeed a superior game caller.
Edit: Wilkerson would need to be included.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 01:44 PM
Oh OK. If that's the case, I'd probably be willing to wave goodbye to Duncan + Chacon + Melky, but only if he's indeed a superior game caller.
If you were a GM in the majors, you'd be everyone's favorite.
El Moose
10-21-05, 01:45 PM
If you were a GM in the majors, you'd be everyone's favorite.
Well, I did edit my post once I realized an omission I made.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 01:46 PM
Well, I did edit my post once I realized an omission I made.
That is still a horrendous trade.
El Moose
10-21-05, 01:47 PM
That is still a horrendous trade.
Can you explain why?
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 01:48 PM
Can you explain why?
A defensive specialist C, and one of their backup outfielders, for our best starting pitcher, and two of our top 3 prospects is a bad trade.
SINCE77 2
10-21-05, 01:51 PM
Can you explain why?
The reason for getting a guy like Wilkerson is because he is cheaper (prospect wise) than getting someone like Hunter or Bradley. Trading away vg prospects and consistent pitchers for 2nd tier players kinda defeats the purpose.
yanks710
10-21-05, 01:53 PM
Very good article. But I'd be hesitant on trading Robbie
donnybball23
10-21-05, 01:58 PM
Very good article. But I'd be hesitant on trading Robbie
I think this article is complete rubbish personally. This guy has no more insight (and probably less) than any of us.
El Moose
10-21-05, 01:59 PM
A defensive specialist C, and one of their backup outfielders, for our best starting pitcher, and two of our top 3 prospects is a bad trade.
Well, he's had over 500 ABs in each of his first 4 full seasons. Not bad for a "backup" outfielder, huh? Also, his career numbers compare favorably to Matsui's (810 OPS vs 840 OPS) for less than a third of what Matsui will be making with his new deal. Not bad for a "backup" outfielder who's 3 years younger and plays a prime defensive position well, is it?
Second of all, we wouldn't be trading our best pitcher. We'd be trading Chacon. There is a pretty big difference. Didn't you see my post about Chacon's peripherals? They're nothing to write home about.
I don't know Schneider in detail but I'll trust Kulish's assessment of him. To my knowledge, he isn't making silly claims like Chacon is our best pitcher.
Also, what makes Melky a better prospect than Cox, Hughes, Garcia, Clippard, Tebata, Henry, Jackson?
El Moose
10-21-05, 02:02 PM
The reason for getting a guy like Wilkerson is because he is cheaper (prospect wise) than getting someone like Hunter or Bradley. Trading away vg prospects and consistent pitchers for 2nd tier players kinda defeats the purpose.
Have you seen Chacon's career numbers? What's consistent about them? BTW, that "second tier player" hits almost as well as Matsui - the same Matsui we like to stick in MVP debates - despite being 3 years younger and plays much better defense for about a third of the price.
1st base point the guy made, even tho I'm a big tino guy...
JT Snow at First is definitely an interesting proposition. Great clubhouse guy with a great glove.
The Q Bomb
10-21-05, 03:21 PM
Yankees really shouldn't trade Cano for Hunter. Hunter is a great defensive centerfielder - but whether he will remain at that level coming back from his injury is not a given.
Also, for marketing reasons as well as on the field reasons - The Yankees need to keep Cano. Yankee fans are hungry for a "homegrown" player. Let me rephrase that - a good homegrown player. You can't underestimate how much excitement a good prospect, who comes up and meets expectations (even if it takes a year or two to do so) generates among a fan base. Just look at what David Wright and Jose Reyes have done for The Mets. It not only infuses life into a line-up but into the stands as well. Of course, the key is for the player to be "good".
I would only consider trading Cano for a young, established, talented centerfielder who can hit. Beltran, despite his disappointing first year with The Mets, would fit that bill, but he is too expensive. Even if The Mets agreed to eat some of his salary (which they will never do) I am still not wild about trading with The Mets. It just - I don't know - gives me the willies (no pun intended!).
I am intrigued about the idea of getting Soriano (for a reasonable price - which I guess precludes this deal from the gitgo) if he would agree to move to centerfield. I think that would be perfect , however, the salary he'd command would be a drawback for The Yanks.
Right now, I would try to get the best centerfielder we can for a year or two and see what our minor league system or the free agent market can produce in at that time.
thesportshero
10-21-05, 03:26 PM
Trading Cano for a Hunter is a moronic move.
Cano is already establishing himself as one of the best 2b in the league, why trade him for a 30 year old injury plagued player?
27IsNext
10-21-05, 03:49 PM
Trading Cano for a Hunter is a moronic move.
Cano is already establishing himself as one of the best 2b in the league, why trade him for a 30 year old injury plagued player?
Not to mention, he's mediocre offensively.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 03:49 PM
A defensive specialist C, and one of their backup outfielders, for our best starting pitcher, and two of our top 3 prospects is a bad trade.
It's hard to call Wilkerson a back-up outfielder when he played in 148 games this past year.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 03:54 PM
ESPN's Scouting Report on Brian Schneider (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=6480)
Hitting
Schneider is a good contact hitter, spraying line-drives to all fields. He's a versatile batter capable of executing hit-and-run plays and going the other way when he's worked to the outside. Like most lefties, he'll turn on a pitch low and inside. He covers the plate well, but as last season wore on he showed an increased tendency to get himself out on pitches that were off the plate outside.
Baserunning & Defense
Schneider's greatest gains this season were at the plate, but his calling card is his work behind it. Rarely do his pitchers shake him off, and he'll usually get them an extra strike or two over the course of the game with his framing. No one picks errant pitches out of the dirt better and his technique for blocking the plate is textbook. It's amazing that as many teams try to run on him as they do because he has such a strong, accurate arm. Over the last three years, he's thrown out 45.9 percent of runners trying to steal.
27IsNext
10-21-05, 03:58 PM
I should point out a post in the Torii Hunter thread that ICEBERG18 made. It describes a Twins fan's perspective on just how overrated Torii Hunter is.
What a Twins fan had to say about Torii Hunter & Jaque Jones.
Torii first. This guy has been nothing but a slightly better than average player his entire career, and his defense is the only reason he is slightly better than average. His offensive numbers are mostly worse than average. Here is is Baseball-reference page.
www.baseball-reference.co...to01.shtml
Notice how he is below league average in every measurable offensive category except OPS, where he comes in a stunning .001 percent above average, FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER!! Despite having some speed, he is also a mediocre base-stealer at only 65% for career.
On top of all this, he is by far, one of the worst situational hitters I HAVE EVER SEEN, AT ANY LEVEL!! My 16 year old brother has moved more runners into scoring postion the last 8 seasons than Torii! How many times have we seen him go down on 3 straight pitches when only making contact to the oppo. field would have driven in a run or moved a runner over? NOT ENOUGH!
Now with this ankle injury, who knows how effective he will be in the field? He may lose a step and if he does, that takes away the only asset he really has, his defense.
On to Jacque, a little better statistically than Torii, but essentially the same player...
www.baseball-reference.co...ja05.shtml
Remember when I mentioned that Torii is the worst situational hitter I've ever seen, well Jacque comes in a solid #2. If I have to endure another 3 pitch AB where JJ swings at 3 outside sliders, I will have to kill myself!!
JJ's offensive numbers also are just slightly better than average and he is only average on defense (remember that throw in Game 2 last year in NY? Yup, thats all you need to see...) He has a knack for coming up with the worst defensive play at the worst time. Literally throwing worm killers to the infield or overshooting both cutoff men.
One other tidbit that should tell you all you need to know about JJ- he owns a 23-1 K/BB ratio in the playoffs, while hitting a measly .197. I think the league has the book on this guy.
BUT I HAVE A PLAN!! The BOTH need to go!!
Can we PLEASE find another option?
If you're a Twins fans with that anemic offense, you would have reason to gripe about Hunter's offensive production. That said, we're looking for the glove primarily on this roster. We've got plenty of offense, and if Hunter produces his average offensive numbers (which would likely improve with all the protection in our lineup), then we'd be VERY happy Yankees fans.
Reading that Twins fan post - it's primarily a rant about offensive numbers and hitting with RISP. Who cares? I'm telling you now, if Hunter is a Yankee.. I'm not going to be complaining about his hitting with runners on 2nd and 2 outs! I'm gonna look at how many runs he saves and how he helps out our pitching staff. I'll save my offensive griping for Jeter/A-Rod/Giambi/Sheff/Matui!
ColombiaYanksFan
10-21-05, 04:34 PM
Can someone please help me in finding out a website that I can go to and view the RISP of each Yankee player and their overall RISP?
Someone on this website claimed that A-Rod finished witha .290 RISP, and I remember seeing on some other website, him having like a .247 RISP around August.
Thanks.
Wade_Taylor
10-21-05, 04:41 PM
If you're a Twins fans with that anemic offense, you would have reason to gripe about Hunter's offensive production. That said, we're looking for the glove primarily on this roster. We've got plenty of offense, and if Hunter produces his average offensive numbers (which would likely improve with all the protection in our lineup), then we'd be VERY happy Yankees fans.
Reading that Twins fan post - it's primarily a rant about offensive numbers and hitting with RISP. Who cares? I'm telling you now, if Hunter is a Yankee.. I'm not going to be complaining about his hitting with runners on 2nd and 2 outs! I'm gonna look at how many runs he saves and how he helps out our pitching staff. I'll save my offensive griping for Jeter/A-Rod/Giambi/Sheff/Matui!
That's all well and good but if all we need is a glove why should trade for a guy who it seems will cost Cano and/of Hughes?
That's all well and good but if all we need is a glove why should trade for a guy who it seems will cost Cano and/of Hughes?
Hunter isn't just a glove. But he isn't enough of an offensive powerhouse to compensate for an anemic Twins offense, but on this team he'd be a blessing. Hitting *is* important - but what makes Hunter great is that he's an average/good hitter AND an excellent CF.
I'd prefer the cheaper of the two between Wilkerson and Bradley, but I wouldn't want to trade anything major for either one of them. B/C prospects, maybe slightly better than those in the Chacon trade (I'd consider Melky/Sean Henn). Getting Brian Schneider to split catching with Posada would be great, but if that means giving up more, forget it.
I'd prefer either of these two by far to Hunter. Will be cheaper and will probably be just as solid, if less "flashy".
SINCE77 2
10-21-05, 05:35 PM
Have you seen Chacon's career numbers? What's consistent about them? BTW, that "second tier player" hits almost as well as Matsui - the same Matsui we like to stick in MVP debates - despite being 3 years younger and plays much better defense for about a third of the price.
Firstly, I am a Wilkerson supporter. I am also a huge Matsui fan and I see Wilkerson as being a similar hitter who can slot in to the #2 hole. However he is not a polished a hitter as Matsui, but thats probably why he won't make the same money. Secondly, all that concerns me is what Chacon has done as a member of the Yankees, and in that capacity he has done quite well. We can obtain Brad and the backup catcher for quite a bit less than you mentioned.
Rocketman
10-21-05, 05:38 PM
To those who think we need a glove, not a bat:
Is there such a thing as "too many runs scored?" What it all comes down to is, "which team scored more runs over nine innings?" If your team scores an average of 6 runs per game while giving up an average of four and a half, your team is going to win a hell of a lot of ballgames.
The reason the Yankees made it to the playoffs this year is because Jason Giambi came out from the dead and was the best player in baseball from the beginning of July on. It was our offense that carried the team in spite of a truly pathetic starting pitching staff and a less than mediocre bullpen. With a repaired bullpen and a stabilized rotation, a high powered offense is going to lead to 100+ wins next year.
The Yankees need to acquire a CF with a bat while maintaining their offensive superiority at other positions. The best and most intelligent way to do this is to trade for Wilkerson, who will likely not be starting for Washington next year, or else to sign Milton Bradley as a free agent.
Baseball fact: Temperment and attitude do not score runs.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 06:20 PM
Firstly, I am a Wilkerson supporter. I am also a huge Matsui fan and I see Wilkerson as being a similar hitter who can slot in to the #2 hole. However he is not a polished a hitter as Matsui, but thats probably why he won't make the same money. Secondly, all that concerns me is what Chacon has done as a member of the Yankees, and in that capacity he has done quite well. We can obtain Brad and the backup catcher for quite a bit less than you mentioned.
Brian Schneider isnt a back-up catcher.
WebsterMulligan
10-21-05, 06:24 PM
To those who think we need a glove, not a bat:
Is there such a thing as "too many runs scored?" What it all comes down to is, "which team scored more runs over nine innings?" If your team scores an average of 6 runs per game while giving up an average of four and a half, your team is going to win a hell of a lot of ballgames.
The reason the Yankees made it to the playoffs this year is because Jason Giambi came out from the dead and was the best player in baseball from the beginning of July on. It was our offense that carried the team in spite of a truly pathetic starting pitching staff and a less than mediocre bullpen. With a repaired bullpen and a stabilized rotation, a high powered offense is going to lead to 100+ wins next year.
The Yankees need to acquire a CF with a bat while maintaining their offensive superiority at other positions. The best and most intelligent way to do this is to trade for Wilkerson, who will likely not be starting for Washington next year, or else to sign Milton Bradley as a free agent.
Baseball fact: Temperment and attitude do not score runs.
Offense may get you to the playoffs, but good pitching (and defense) nearly always carries the day in the playoffs. Most pitching staffs that go deep in the playoffs are not likely to give up six runs per game. Not even to the vaunted Yankee lineup.
The Yankees must concentrate their efforts in aquiring OF defense and bullpen help. The Yankees already have enough offense, IMO.
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 06:24 PM
Brian Schneider isnt a back-up catcher.
And he likely isn't going anywhere.
SINCE77 2
10-21-05, 06:30 PM
Brian Schneider isnt a back-up catcher.
I stand corrected.
surge511
10-21-05, 06:38 PM
Making Giambi a full time DH is STUPID STUPID STUPID. Leave him alone already. Next year he's an All Star 1st baseman. So he's not the greatest fielder..BFD. He hits so much better as a 1st baseman than as a DH, the point is no longer debateable. This past season just confirmed it, beyond all reasonable doubt. He's not going to learn to be a better DH at this stage in his career. SHEESH.
I agree, unless we can get Overbay, who could be the 1Bman here for a long time.
surge511
10-21-05, 06:43 PM
To those who think we need a glove, not a bat:
Is there such a thing as "too many runs scored?" What it all comes down to is, "which team scored more runs over nine innings?" If your team scores an average of 6 runs per game while giving up an average of four and a half, your team is going to win a hell of a lot of ballgames.
The reason the Yankees made it to the playoffs this year is because Jason Giambi came out from the dead and was the best player in baseball from the beginning of July on. It was our offense that carried the team in spite of a truly pathetic starting pitching staff and a less than mediocre bullpen. With a repaired bullpen and a stabilized rotation, a high powered offense is going to lead to 100+ wins next year.
Baseball fact: Temperment and attitude do not score runs.
I agree with this entirely. While Defense is important, it pales in comparison to hitting. While it would be nice to put a good defensive player in CF, I am not going to sacrafice hitting to get it done, and make Bubba Crosby the fulltime CFer. Wilkerson has enough of a bat, as does Bradley - as long as it doesn't kill the farm or the bank - those players are not worth it.
I would be fine with a 3 year reasonable deal for any of those guys, giving our prospects in the OF some time to develop. But I don't want to see any mega deals or long term deals. A stopgap type player that can play good D, but more importantly a guy who isnt going to kill the bottom of the lineup.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 06:56 PM
I'm sorry, I just read this and had to share. It's some of the dumbest stuff I've read this short offseason:
http://www.mlb4u.com/top50.html
Johnny Damon-CF: Damon, represented by Scott Boras, will turn 32 in November. Still, he is seeking five- or six-year deal with an annual salary between 8-10M. Considered the best leadoff hitter in baseball, he is believed to have already decided on a handful of teams he would be willing to play for. However, he has said that he would like finish his career in BOS and does not want to play for NYY. But, the Yankees have the greatest need for Damon and could give him a very lucrative deal to lure him to the Big Apple. He may also contemplating retiring after this season. "That's definitely a possibility," Damon said. "I'm young, but I've accomplished what I wanted in this game. I'd like to accomplish more titles and more great seasons, but the ultimate goal (the World Series title), I've accomplished."
Prediction: Signs with the Yankees for 6-years, 60M
6 years, 60 million? Uh, no. Thanks for playing.
This one is the best:
Jamie Moyer: As the season comes to a close, it doesn't appear as though this will be Moyer's final season At the age of 43, he could pitch his 20th season next year. There's a good chance it won't be in Seattle despite his status in the city because teams like the Astros and Yankees had interest in trading for him. However, since he did invoke his 10-5 rights to veto those deals, staying in Seattle is a possibility for him. He'll probably get an offer of 1-year, 5Mish from SEA, but the Yankees will do everything they can to lure him to the Big Apple with a bigger deal.
Prediction: Signs with the Yankees for 1-year, 9M
That's just too f*cking dumb for words. "The Yankees will do everything they can to lure him to the Big Apple with a bigger deal."? Did Jamie Moyer suddenly become Johan Santana? When did the Yankees suddenly become starving for starting pitching? Does this guy/girl have ANY common sense?
SINCE77 2
10-21-05, 06:58 PM
I agree with this entirely. While Defense is important, it pales in comparison to hitting. While it would be nice to put a good defensive player in CF, I am not going to sacrafice hitting to get it done, and make Bubba Crosby the fulltime CFer. Wilkerson has enough of a bat, as does Bradley - as long as it doesn't kill the farm or the bank - those players are not worth it.
I would be fine with a 3 year reasonable deal for any of those guys, giving our prospects in the OF some time to develop. But I don't want to see any mega deals or long term deals. A stopgap type player that can play good D, but more importantly a guy who isnt going to kill the bottom of the lineup.
How much hitting do we need? We have Jeter, Arod, Sheff, Matsui, and Giambi. Slightly below those guys is Posada. Thats 6 players and about 170 homers. Few teams in baseball have such a productive 6 on their team. IMO, we can afford to get a few defensive players with 10-15 homer power and be very successful.
WebsterMulligan
10-21-05, 07:00 PM
I'm sorry, I just read this and had to share. It's some of the dumbest stuff I've read this short offseason:
http://www.mlb4u.com/top50.html
6 years, 60 million? Uh, no. Thanks for playing.
This one is the best:
That's just too f*cking dumb for words. "The Yankees will do everything they can to lure him to the Big Apple with a bigger deal."? Did Jamie Moyer suddenly become Johan Santana?
Sounds plausible to me, based on past history.
;)
27IsNext
10-21-05, 07:01 PM
If you're a Twins fans with that anemic offense, you would have reason to gripe about Hunter's offensive production. That said, we're looking for the glove primarily on this roster. We've got plenty of offense, and if Hunter produces his average offensive numbers (which would likely improve with all the protection in our lineup), then we'd be VERY happy Yankees fans.
Reading that Twins fan post - it's primarily a rant about offensive numbers and hitting with RISP. Who cares? I'm telling you now, if Hunter is a Yankee.. I'm not going to be complaining about his hitting with runners on 2nd and 2 outs! I'm gonna look at how many runs he saves and how he helps out our pitching staff. I'll save my offensive griping for Jeter/A-Rod/Giambi/Sheff/Matui!
So for a team that does piss poorly with RISP, especially in the post-season, you're proposing that we give up valuable minor leaguers and/or cheap major leaguers for a guy who can't hit with RISP because he "has a glove"?
In that case, why not just sign Jac Jones, who is nearly identical offensively and good defensively, who will only cost money and a second-round pick?
Kulish29
10-21-05, 07:02 PM
Sounds plausible to me, based on past history.
;)
Well yeah. But in all seriousness, he makes it sound like the Yankees want Moyer extremely bad, which couldnt be farther from the truth. In fact, if the Yankees sign Jamie Moyer this offseason, I will run around my condo complex in my boxers singing 'Tessie'.
It's scary how stupid Nightengale is.
Rocketman
10-21-05, 07:30 PM
How much hitting do we need? We have Jeter, Arod, Sheff, Matsui, and Giambi. Slightly below those guys is Posada. Thats 6 players and about 170 homers. Few teams in baseball have such a productive 6 on their team. IMO, we can afford to get a few defensive players with 10-15 homer power and be very successful.
Did you not read what I wrote? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ENOUGH OFFENSE. If the team scores lots and lots of runs, they are going to win lots of games - both in the regular season and in the postseason. Add in solid pitching and you're going to guarantee many victories.
ring403
10-21-05, 07:43 PM
How much hitting do we need? We have Jeter, Arod, Sheff, Matsui, and Giambi. Slightly below those guys is Posada. Thats 6 players and about 170 homers. Few teams in baseball have such a productive 6 on their team. IMO, we can afford to get a few defensive players with 10-15 homer power and be very successful.
I don't care too much about how much power the 7-9 hitters have, as long as they are better overall hitters than they were this season. I like good defense as much as anybody, but I disagree that the Yankees should be happy with an offensive black hole in the lineup, as long as he's a good defensive player. The offense has to be circular to be optimally effective. Rallies can't continually be snuffed out by a weak-hitting bottom of the order, if the Yankees hope to improve.
JeffWeaverFan
10-21-05, 08:20 PM
Cano for Hunter is so f*cking stupid it's not even funny. Honestly, if they make that trade I may take a year off from this team. What a joke that that would even be thought of.
27IsNext
10-21-05, 09:43 PM
Cano for Hunter is so f*cking stupid it's not even funny. Honestly, if they make that trade I may take a year off from this team. What a joke that that would even be thought of.
If Cashman returns, and it's looking like he will, that isn't going to happen.
The guy who wrote this should be posting on this forum and not writing baseball articles. I think he has about as much knowledge of the Yankees plans as you or I. Trading Cano for Hunter would be ridiculous.
exactly. although who knows, it may be some real estate agent in Tampa who's wormed his way into the faction down there and has taken it upon himself to speak for the Yankees; hell, maybe it's George himself, they've finally taken his meds away from him. ;)
some humorous premises to this "article":
>> Bernie Williams won't return, not even in a part-time role. The Yankees simply don't want him around, knowing that Torre would start playing him every day <<
whomever he's referring to as "The Yankees" obviously missed all the games where Bernie sat while WomOut played.
>> The Yankees will do virtually anything it takes to land Hunter, knowing that he not only will catch everything from Monument Park to Battery Park, but he will also become a much better hitter with protection in the lineup. <<
i like Hunter, but come on, he's 30 years old, no one in their right mind would claim to "know" he'd become a much better hitter by going to the Yanks. didn't help Rondell White much.
>> backup catcher... grab a free agent such as A.J. Pierzynski, who can DH on the days he doesn't catch? <<
sure, Pierzynski is going to go somewhere and back up.
>> Get a defensive first baseman: Jason Giambi...will stay on as DH<<
so he's got both Pierzynski & giambi DHing. gee, maybe it is George - cornering the market on DHs is job #1.
>> J.T. Snow. If Snow wants to trek East, the Yankees will gladly have him back. <<
this is part of the larger plan the "author" refers to of "a serious attempt to get younger". that & trading Cano for a 30-year-old CF should do the trick.
unbelievable.
I think a lot of you have Bradley pinned wrong. He's had some blow-ups on the field, but so has David Ortiz (threw a bag of bats) and Gary Sheffield (too many to list).
That kind of stuff of course makes the news.
I've had the PLEASURE of watching him out here for the Dodgers, and off the field he is a very articulate and down to earth guy. I think his intensity on the field say a lot about his desire to win and like a few folks have said, he has the tools to make it, he just needs to harness that energy and focus on the task at hand. That's why we have Joe Torre.
I'm on board the Bradley train for sure.
Me too... since Joe is back. This is Joe's strength!! Plus, with all the players around him (ala Sheff) he is in a different "world" and will possibly become the player he can be without the problems (again, ala Sheff).
Cano for Hunter is so f*cking stupid it's not even funny. Honestly, if they make that trade I may take a year off from this team. What a joke that that would even be thought of.
No way that happens!! (Hopefully).
Cano for Hunter is so f*cking stupid it's not even funny. Honestly, if they make that trade I may take a year off from this team. What a joke that that would even be thought of.
I don't see that happening. I think cano is gonna be around for awhile. At least I hope so.
Rocketman
10-21-05, 10:32 PM
Me too... since Joe is back. This is Joe's strength!! Plus, with all the players around him (ala Sheff) he is in a different "world" and will possibly become the player he can be without the problems (again, ala Sheff).
This I wholeheartedly agree with. If anything (because it sure isn't in-game micromanagement or playing the better player over the veteran!) this is Joe's strength: the ability to massage egos and stop in-fighting from affecting on-the-field performance.
Another issue:
People have somehow come to the assumption that trades cost less than free agents. Look at the Randy Johnson trade for evidence that this isn't so: the Yankees are paying $25 million a year for a starting pitcher of "better than average" talent now, likely "average" talent later (due to aging).
I am of the opinion that free agency (along with good scouting of amateurs and good drafts) is the cheapest route to attaining a strong team. The reason? Look to Carlos Beltran from last year: had the Yankees signed him for $15 million a year, they wouldn't be stuck with the CF issue that EVERYONE KNEW was going to come and present itself. Recall that all last off-season the forum discussed how there were no good free agents or center fielders available for trade in the next few upcoming years.
Don't give me his statistics from last year as evidence that it was a dumb trade: he has a very, very high likelihood of going back to career norms next year, considering the steps his walk rate and power have taken in the past, along with age consideration.
I would still be open to trading for Beltran for his ENTIRE contract, although I'm certain the Mets would never trade their most expensive player. I would absolutely trade Philip Hughes to the Mets for Beltran - a player that could still offer well-above-average offensive performance along with terrific defense for the remainder of his contract.
The Yankees have put far too much money in marginal players when they should be putting that same money in far superior, younger talent.
YankeePride1967
10-21-05, 10:38 PM
How much hitting do we need? We have Jeter, Arod, Sheff, Matsui, and Giambi. Slightly below those guys is Posada. Thats 6 players and about 170 homers. Few teams in baseball have such a productive 6 on their team. IMO, we can afford to get a few defensive players with 10-15 homer power and be very successful.
Ah, the old "$40 is as good as $80" argument.
YankeePride1967
10-21-05, 10:40 PM
I don't care too much about how much power the 7-9 hitters have, as long as they are better overall hitters than they were this season. I like good defense as much as anybody, but I disagree that the Yankees should be happy with an offensive black hole in the lineup, as long as he's a good defensive player. The offense has to be circular to be optimally effective. Rallies can't continually be snuffed out by a weak-hitting bottom of the order, if the Yankees hope to improve.
Exactly, I have no idea where the notion that weakening our offense will make us better.
SubwayFanatic
10-21-05, 10:48 PM
Did you not read what I wrote? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ENOUGH OFFENSE. If the team scores lots and lots of runs, they are going to win lots of games - both in the regular season and in the postseason. Add in solid pitching and you're going to guarantee many victories.
Bingo.
This is a huge point that infuriates me -- why can't people grasp the importance of offense? Somehow "You can never have enough pitching" but it's okay to have to have a few automatic outs. Eh, no big deal, right?
I don't care if the Yankees scored almost 900 runs in 2005; if they can score 950 next year, they will win about five or so more games.
More runs = more wins. I just don't see why some people can't comprehend this.
MassNYYfan
10-21-05, 10:51 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5275&type=batting&year=2005
The top scoring offense in the majors got swept in the first round. The second highest scoring offense lost in 5 games. The third, fourth, fifth and sixth highest scoring offenses didn't even make the playoffs.
The 13th and 24th highest scoring offenses made it to the WS.
Talk to me some more about the importance of scoring MORE runs. Sheesh.
Mark Healey
10-21-05, 10:56 PM
Hey guys...just thought I'd share what I wrote this past Sunday in my column (shame on you if you didn't read it!) :-)
The way the Yankees are built at this particular moment – especially with the Red Sox looking like they might have to rebuild this past offseason – not much has to be done to win the AL East again. Of course that’s not the goal, so the question is, what’s the next step?
Going Nine has always been a proponent of player development being the key to long term success, so while the Yankees have needs, they should not use the solid group of prospects they’ve collected over the past few years for a quick fix.
However, that doesn’t mean you can’t trade one or two to acquire an All-Star caliber player that’s under 35 either.
The Rotation _ Randy Johnson will be back. Carl Pavano should be healthy and ready to give the Yankees what they thought they were getting last year. Mike Mussina isn’t going anywhere, but his health and effectiveness is key. That leaves Chien-Ming Wang, Shawn Chacon, Aaron and Jared Wright to battle for the last three spots. Wang has the highest value on the trade market, but it would be foolish to deal him. As far as GN is concerned, trading Wright – and having to eat most, if not all, of his contract in the process – is the way to go. Having Wang and Chacon at the back end of the rotation, with Small as the swing man, is perhaps the best way to go.
The Bullpen - Easy to solve. Dump everyone in it, except the Great Mariano and Scott Proctor (who, if he’s used the way he was in the minor leagues; one inning at a time), sign B.J. Ryan as the setup man, and try to find one more arm – preferably a right-hander – that can complete the bridge to Riveria. We don’t know who that is, so hopefully Billy Connors, Joe Kerrigan, Neil Allen or whoever else will be New York’s pitching coach this season will figure that out.
Offense - Let Hideki walk. Yup, you heard me. That’s money spent better elsewhere, like at 1B for Paul Konerko. Secondly, we would remake the entire outfield.
LF - Sign Johnny Damon to be the LF and the everyday lead off man. Has no arm, but is a far superior defensive player and give the team it’s best No. 1 hitter since Chuck Knoblauch.
CF - Revisit the Cameron-Sheffield deal. Cameron will catch everything in sight, and will be overjoyed to be back in CF and the American League. Mets could lose out on Manny Ramirez, and this proposed one-for-one deal with the Yankees just might make everyone happy. Sheffield’s dramatics aside, he will play hard for Willie Randolph.
RF - Staring Gotham Baseball’s No. 1 Yankee prospect Eric Duncan in RF for Trenton on Opening Day is the first step. Putting GB’s No. 3 Prospect Melky Cabrera in RF to start the season is the other.
Step Three is tricky:
Option 1: Sign Preston Wilson to a incentive laden-deal that allows those other two time to develop is. Option 2: See what the Nationals will want for OF-1B Brad Wilkerson (if Brian Cashman leaves for DC, he will want Cabrera and LHP Sean Henn, most likely, which the Yankees should turn down). Option 3: Try to convince Brian Giles (unlikely) to play in NY.
Either way, you’ve now added speed, power and a lead off hitter, and improved your OF defense across the board. Add a player like Desi Relaford that can play 2B, SS and even the OF, ad that Yankee fans, is how you build a team that can win playoff baseball.
LF Damon
SS Jeter
3B Rodriguez
DH Giambi
1B Konerko
2B Cano
RF Wilson
C Posada
CF Cameron
Just how I see it...
27IsNext
10-21-05, 10:58 PM
The top scoring offense in the majors got swept in the first round. The second highest scoring offense lost in 5 games. The third, fourth, fifth and sixth highest scoring offenses didn't even make the playoffs. Talk to me some more about the importance of scoring MORE runs. Sheesh.
Okay, fine. So instead of giving up prospects for Hunter, why not just sign Jac Jones?
SubwayFanatic
10-21-05, 10:59 PM
The top scoring offense in the majors got swept in the first round. The second highest scoring offense lost in 5 games. The third, fourth, fifth and sixth highest scoring offenses didn't even make the playoffs.
The 13th and 24th highest scoring offenses made it to the WS.
Talk to me some more about the importance of scoring MORE runs. Sheesh.
The top scoring offense in 2004 won the World Series.
The top scoring offense in 2004 won the World Series.
Yes, but in 2004, they were 14th in the majors for runs allowed. Average - not horrible.
In 2005, they were 24th in the majors in runs allowed. Only 6 teams were worse - none of which made it to the playoffs.
ring403
10-21-05, 11:11 PM
The 13th and 24th highest scoring offenses made it to the WS.Nice one year sample size.
Talk to me some more about the importance of scoring MORE runs. Sheesh.
Good balance give a team the best chance to win. The fact that the Yankees scored 900 runs does not mean that the offense was as efficient as it could have been, and that it doesn't need to be addressed. If you don't think having guys like Sierra, Tino, Bernie and Womack in the starting lineup didn't cost the Yankees runs and wins, you are very much mistaken.
Nice one year sample size.
Good balance give a team the best chance to win. The fact that the Yankees scored 900 runs does not mean that the offense was as efficient as it could have been, and that it doesn't need to be addressed. If you don't think having guys like Sierra, Tino, Bernie and Womack in the starting lineup didn't cost the Yankees runs and wins, you are very much mistaken.
Balance wins - no argument here. Bernie wasn't giving us much offense this year. Someone like Hunter, who is a huge defensive upgrade, and an adequate bat, improves that position greatly. If it costs us Cano, then yes, his offense needs to be replaced. You can do that a lot of way (the options have been hammered on already). Anyway, the biggest point I'm trying to make is that Hunter is a great glove and good bat. He's not an offensive savior and that's fine - because that's not what we're primarily looking for. OK, so why not sign anyone good glove? Because we still *need* that bat - and Hunter is a better hitter, if even slightly, than the other options.
I'm not looking to castrate the offense. We can make it up either at first, 2nd or DH. Whatever you want to do with the Cano replacement, Sheff/Giambi DH option and/or a 1B pickup. There are ways to do this and even get stronger offensively in the process at other positions.
27IsNext
10-21-05, 11:23 PM
Balance wins - no argument here. Bernie wasn't giving us much offense this year. Someone like Hunter, who is a huge defensive upgrade, and an adequate bat, improves that position greatly. If it costs us Cano, then yes, his offense needs to be replaced. You can do that a lot of way (the options have been hammered on already). Anyway, the biggest point I'm trying to make is that Hunter is a great glove and good bat. He's not an offensive savior and that's fine - because that's not what we're primarily looking for. OK, so why not sign anyone good glove? Because we still *need* that bat - and Hunter is a better hitter, if even slightly, than the other options.
Hunter sucks. Sorry to be blunt, but there's no other way to put it. He sucks.
He's a good, not great, defender. Problem is, he just came back from ankle surgery, and is also over the age of 30. He isn't going to be good defensively for much longer. If his ankle starts acting up, this will happen sooner rather than later.
Offensively, the stats speak for themselves. He's mediocre, and will only get worse as the years go by. Trading Duncan, Cano, etc. for him would be one of the dumbest moves this franchise could make.
George Steinbrenner
10-22-05, 12:39 AM
Hey guys...just thought I'd share what I wrote this past Sunday in my column (shame on you if you didn't read it!) :-)
Just how I see it...
Hideki walks? Sheff for Cameron? GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE :eek:
Shaun4013
10-22-05, 12:46 AM
Hey guys...just thought I'd share what I wrote this past Sunday in my column (shame on you if you didn't read it!) :-)
Just how I see it...
Not only is it not happening, it should not happen. Just bad. NO DAMON or WILSON or CAMERON please.
JapanJobbers
10-22-05, 12:50 AM
Yes, but in 2004, they were 14th in the majors for runs allowed. Average - not horrible.
In 2005, they were 24th in the majors in runs allowed. Only 6 teams were worse - none of which made it to the playoffs.
Exactly. Their Offense was the same (basically) but their pitching was worse.
No one is saying that pitching doesn't matter, but improving the team is the way to go; whether by adding more Offense or more pitching. Better players will lead to more wins.
Rocketman
10-22-05, 12:57 AM
Yes, but in 2004, they were 14th in the majors for runs allowed. Average - not horrible.
In 2005, they were 24th in the majors in runs allowed. Only 6 teams were worse - none of which made it to the playoffs.
And you think that DEFENSE is what made the Red Sox 14th in the majors for runs allowed when they won the WS in 2004?
The Yankees have the roots of a good to very good rotation in Johnson, Mussina, Chacon, Pavano, and Wang/Wright. If the Yankees can solidify their bullpen (which is a big if, but after this year Steinbrenner needs to break the bank on middle relief) the Yankees are going to be one of the better teams in baseball at preventing runs.
Once again, the team that scores the most runs in a series wins THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME. Yes, there is luck involved in baseball - the 1960 Pirates beat a FAR superior team in the 1960 Yankees - but you have to gear your team to be the best one possible. The best determinant, BY FAR, of a superior team is a better record in the regular season - 162 games is a far better indicator of team performance than is a 5 game division series.
The Yankees need to shore up their bullpen, yes, but they also need to score more runs next year. There is no reason that the Yankees, with an unbelievable front five in Jeter, ARod, Giambi, Sheffield, and Matsui should score less than 950 runs in a season, if not 1000. It's even realistic - as long as there aren't black holes sucking the efficiency out of a terrific lineup.
JapanJobbers
10-22-05, 04:47 AM
Offense - Let Hideki walk. Yup, you heard me. That’s money spent better elsewhere, like at 1B for Paul Konerko. Secondly, we would remake the entire outfield.
LF - Sign Johnny Damon to be the LF and the everyday lead off man. Has no arm, but is a far superior defensive player and give the team it’s best No. 1 hitter since Chuck Knoblauch.
If this actually happened, what are the odds that the Sox sign Matsui to replace Damon? I don't think the Yankees win that trade.
just-blaze
10-22-05, 04:47 AM
People have somehow come to the assumption that trades cost less than free agents. Look at the Randy Johnson trade for evidence that this isn't so: the Yankees are paying $25 million a year for a starting pitcher of "better than average" talent now, likely "average" talent later (due to aging).
Isnt the Big Unit making 16 million a year?
parkerstrong
10-22-05, 06:32 AM
Hey guys...just thought I'd share what I wrote this past Sunday in my column (shame on you if you didn't read it!) :-)
Just how I see it...
I am very, very glad you aren't in charge.
YankeePride1967
10-22-05, 07:59 AM
The top scoring offense in the majors got swept in the first round. The second highest scoring offense lost in 5 games. The third, fourth, fifth and sixth highest scoring offenses didn't even make the playoffs.
The 13th and 24th highest scoring offenses made it to the WS.
Talk to me some more about the importance of scoring MORE runs. Sheesh.
None of that justifies weakening the offense. Why even address the offense when the offense isn't the problem? The Sox and Yankees both had the same weaknesses, bullpen. And the Yanks had CF defense as well. Why not address those instead of weakening the offense?
YankeePride1967
10-22-05, 08:01 AM
Balance wins - no argument here. Bernie wasn't giving us much offense this year. Someone like Hunter, who is a huge defensive upgrade, and an adequate bat, improves that position greatly. If it costs us Cano, then yes, his offense needs to be replaced. You can do that a lot of way (the options have been hammered on already). Anyway, the biggest point I'm trying to make is that Hunter is a great glove and good bat. He's not an offensive savior and that's fine - because that's not what we're primarily looking for. OK, so why not sign anyone good glove? Because we still *need* that bat - and Hunter is a better hitter, if even slightly, than the other options.
I'm not looking to castrate the offense. We can make it up either at first, 2nd or DH. Whatever you want to do with the Cano replacement, Sheff/Giambi DH option and/or a 1B pickup. There are ways to do this and even get stronger offensively in the process at other positions.
If the Yankees are stupid enough to trade Cano for Hunter, they deserve to lose.
rightfielder21
10-22-05, 08:04 AM
If the Yankees are stupid enough to trade Cano for Hunter, they deserve to lose.
Agreed...
If the Yankees are stupid enough to trade Cano for Hunter, they deserve to lose.
I'll second that.
MaximMan121
10-22-05, 09:51 AM
Here's my question.
With A-ROD and Jeter both on this team, do you think they're grooming last years' first round pick to play second in 2 years? If so, that would be why they would be offering up Cano. Don't get me wrong, I think it's stupid as all hell, but that may be what they're thinking. After all, what are we going to do with CJ Henry, Jeter, Cano and AROD on the same team?
Let's be honest, though it SHOULD happen, Jeter and AROD aren't moving to CF (except in my dreams).
Will
WillisToYanks
10-22-05, 02:05 PM
Any way of getting dontrelle willis or roy olswalt in a trade?
Rocketman
10-22-05, 02:16 PM
Isnt the Big Unit making 16 million a year?
The Yankees are ALSO paying the entire salary, essentially, of Javier Vazquez - around $10 million a season. As a result, they are not paying Randy $25 mil a year, but they are paying $25 mil a year for Randy.
Any way of getting dontrelle willis or roy olswalt in a trade?
Oswalt is a free agent after next season, so if the Astros arent winning maybe we can him at the trade deadline.
Oswalt is a free agent after next season, so if the Astros arent winning maybe we can him at the trade deadline.
Roy is going to make a killing when he hits free agency.
JeffWeaverFan
10-22-05, 02:56 PM
Another idea. Lets either trade for Milton Bradley or get him if he is non-tendered. Yes, he is one crazy SOB, but he can defend and hit. And, Joe Torre's best quality is handling these people. Maybe winning will be good for him and he won't cause problems. Either way, I'd take him in a heartbeat.
Roy is going to make a killing when he hits free agency.
Yep he sure is.
Another idea. Lets either trade for Milton Bradley or get him if he is non-tendered. Yes, he is one crazy SOB, but he can defend and hit. And, Joe Torre's best quality is handling these people. Maybe winning will be good for him and he won't cause problems. Either way, I'd take him in a heartbeat.
Me too, but what will he cost us to get?
YankeePride1967
10-22-05, 06:19 PM
Me too, but what will he cost us to get?
Another idea. Lets either trade for Milton Bradley or get him if he is non-tendered. Yes, he is one crazy SOB, but he can defend and hit. And, Joe Torre's best quality is handling these people. Maybe winning will be good for him and he won't cause problems. Either way, I'd take him in a heartbeat.
Good plan. I don't think we'd have to give up much for Bradley and even if he melts down after a year it would bridge us to a year where the FA market will hopefully be better.
NelsonMuntz
10-22-05, 06:31 PM
Another idea. Lets either trade for Milton Bradley or get him if he is non-tendered. Yes, he is one crazy SOB, but he can defend and hit. And, Joe Torre's best quality is handling these people. Maybe winning will be good for him and he won't cause problems. Either way, I'd take him in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't want to trade for Bradley but I'd be open to signing him as an FA. I like that idea much more than signing Damon or trading for Hunter or Pierre. Of course trading for Wilkerson is still my preference.
Mark Healey
10-22-05, 06:40 PM
Not only is it not happening, it should not happen. Just bad. NO DAMON or WILSON or CAMERON please.
Hey, I didn't say it was happening...just said that's what I'd do...this team has to get younger and trading the kids isn't the way to do that...Matsui is a solid player, but let's get real...he's not worth 15 million a year for 4-5 years when you need a CF and a new setup man...
YankeePride1967
10-22-05, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't want to trade for Bradley but I'd be open to signing him as an FA. I like that idea much more than signing Damon or trading for Hunter or Pierre. Of course trading for Wilkerson is still my preference.
Considering what happened this year, if it was a trade, it would be some guy that in 3 years will be working a 9-5 job.
NelsonMuntz
10-22-05, 06:44 PM
Considering what happened this year, if it was a trade, it would be some guy that in 3 years will be working a 9-5 job.
Well in that case, yeah I'd do it. I just wouldn't give up a Duncan level prospect for Bradley.
YankeePride1967
10-22-05, 06:47 PM
Well in that case, yeah I'd do it. I just wouldn't give up a Duncan level prospect for Bradley.
It won't cost that much. Bradley's value is not that high now.
It won't cost that much. Bradley's value is not that high now.
We should jump on it then.
SINCE77 2
10-22-05, 07:15 PM
Hey, I didn't say it was happening...just said that's what I'd do...this team has to get younger and trading the kids isn't the way to do that...Matsui is a solid player, but let's get real...he's not worth 15 million a year for 4-5 years when you need a CF and a new setup man...
Who is paying Matsui 15mill per year for 4-5 years? Matsui will likely get 9 mill per year for 3 years. Preston Wilson? Johnny Damon? Yankees have zero interest in Wilson and while Damon was a good choice in 2001, it is now 2005 and giving him a 4-5 year contract is poor baseball business. Cameron can still catch the ball pretty well, but he is the last thing this team needs. Any pitcher above a #5 starter usually eats him up for lunch. It would appear that you haven't looked beyond the options that have been voiced by the media.
Matsui55
10-22-05, 09:32 PM
The Yankees are ALSO paying the entire salary, essentially, of Javier Vazquez - around $10 million a season. As a result, they are not paying Randy $25 mil a year, but they are paying $25 mil a year for Randy.
Where did you dream up that one?
No, the Yanks are paying $3M per over the life of Javy's contract, but they are not paying the full deal.
TheInfallibleOne
10-22-05, 09:42 PM
Personally, I would see what the Mets are willing to take in exchange for Mike Cameron. His career OBP is around .350, OPS around .800, which is fine for a defender of his caliber. Thing is, just how much are they going to ask for? It is my firm belief that the Sheffield for Cameron rumor was the Mets trying to establish what kind of power the Mets wants in exchange for Cameron. The proposed Manny for Cameron trade only confirms this IMO. Posada, IMO, should be shopped. If we propose to eat a good portion of the remaining salary, could we trade him to a big-market team in exchange for bullpen help? Would the Mets take him as part of a package for Mike Cameron?
Yo do know that Mike Cameron will never be the same again...much like a Red Sox outfielder in the 60's who suffered a similar injury (Cameron hurt his vision by slamming into Carlos Beltran's head in either the temporal lobe area or something in the brain connecting to vision; the Red Sox outfielder whose name I cannot remember, happened to also lose his vision at least partially in one eye) Camerons coordination will now ALWAYS be off, his hitting will be off balanced and he will not be able to judge balls hit to him as well. Anyone who trades for Cameron will be a fool.
ring403
10-22-05, 11:32 PM
Yo do know that Mike Cameron will never be the same again...much like a Red Sox outfielder in the 60's who suffered a similar injury (Cameron hurt his vision by slamming into Carlos Beltran's head in either the temporal lobe area or something in the brain connecting to vision; the Red Sox outfielder whose name I cannot remember, happened to also lose his vision at least partially in one eye) Camerons coordination will now ALWAYS be off, his hitting will be off balanced and he will not be able to judge balls hit to him as well. Anyone who trades for Cameron will be a fool.
Are you aware of some medical report on Mike Cameron that gives this prognosis? If not, unless you are a qualified doctor who has examined Cameron, this is complete speculation based on nothing more than your opinion.
JeffWeaverFan
10-22-05, 11:38 PM
Me too, but what will he cost us to get?
I doubt it would take much. The Dodgers want to get rid of him. He's definitely a risk but he can also play.
YankeePride1967
10-23-05, 07:25 AM
I doubt it would take much. The Dodgers want to get rid of him. He's definitely a risk but he can also play.
Well Joe once said he could manage Albert Belle and managing personalities is Joe's strength so Bradley shouldn't be a problem for Joe.
rightfielder21
10-23-05, 08:22 AM
Are you aware of some medical report on Mike Cameron that gives this prognosis? If not, unless you are a qualified doctor who has examined Cameron, this is complete speculation based on nothing more than your opinion.
I think you missed the posters name...
TheInfallibleOne
10-23-05, 10:51 PM
Are you aware of some medical report on Mike Cameron that gives this prognosis? If not, unless you are a qualified doctor who has examined Cameron, this is complete speculation based on nothing more than your opinion.
<P>
I think you missed the posters name...
Have you seen this article, I quote:He said his eyes are the factor most likely to keep him off the field this season, citing his sensitivity to bright light.
"Normally, I can see well, but to have baseball eyes is probably a little bit different," Cameron admitted. Physically, Cameron looks like a hazy version of himself, like the mental image you have of a good friend who you haven't seen in some time. He has lost a good amount of weight -- Cameron estimates double-digits
<P>
Don't believe me? Heres a link: http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050831&content_id=1190818&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym
Cameron will never be the same IMO. Personally I would have liked to see him patrolling CF, but not anymore. Let him prove his baseball eyes are back, or that his timing will return. But let him prove it before we pull any trade triggers.
<P> As for my screen name, I just thought it was funny b/c I thought of it whenI went a 2 week stretch that I called every one of Torre's moves that would work/fail (please hold all JFR jokes and bad management jokes.) Naturally, once I made the screen name I went a couple of days getting absolutely everything wrong in all aspects of life, but thats a different story.
JeffWeaverFan
10-23-05, 11:01 PM
Well Joe once said he could manage Albert Belle and managing personalities is Joe's strength so Bradley shouldn't be a problem for Joe.
Well, you never know. Joe would be a manager that might be able to handle Milton, but who knows. It's not like people come here and become saints. We've had numerous guys that have hated it here and that Joe does not like and puts in the doghouse and subsequently have to be traded. Raul Mondesi comes to mind. Ruben Sierra during his first stint here is an example. Not that I'm blaming Joe for this (far from it), just that you never know. Saying that, I'm willing to take the risk if we can get Milton on the cheap.
JeffWeaverFan
10-23-05, 11:04 PM
I think you missed the posters name...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
apolansk
10-24-05, 12:00 AM
Well, you never know. Joe would be a manager that might be able to handle Milton, but who knows. It's not like people come here and become saints. We've had numerous guys that have hated it here and that Joe does not like and puts in the doghouse and subsequently have to be traded. Raul Mondesi comes to mind. Ruben Sierra during his first stint here is an example. Not that I'm blaming Joe for this (far from it), just that you never know. Saying that, I'm willing to take the risk if we can get Milton on the cheap.
IIRC correctly Ruben left before '96 and was never managed by Joe. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a ring. Mondesi on the other hand hasn't been able to be managed by another pretty good manager in Bobby Cox, who basically refused to use him this year.
I Love Wang
10-24-05, 12:01 AM
IIRC correctly Ruben left before '96 and was never managed by Joe. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a ring. Mondesi on the other hand hasn't been able to be managed by another pretty good manager in Bobby Cox, who basically refused to use him this year.
Sierra was traded for Cecil Fielder midway through the 1996 season. He was definitely managed by Joe.
JeffWeaverFan
10-24-05, 12:03 AM
IIRC correctly Ruben left before '96 and was never managed by Joe. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a ring. Mondesi on the other hand hasn't been able to be managed by another pretty good manager in Bobby Cox, who basically refused to use him this year.
Ruben was traded during the 1996 season. He doesn't have a ring with us, but he was managed by Joe.
Mondesi seems to be a complete jerk. The point of my post was not to blame Joe, it was that he can't make everyone happy. And, Milton Bradley has a pretty horrible reputation. Joe is the right guy for a Milton Bradley type, but it is no guarentee.
Sierra was traded for Cecil Fielder midway through the 1996 season. He was definitely managed by Joe.
IIRC, Sierra dissed the Yankees when he left and said something like: "All the the Yankees care about is winning," in a disdainful way. He was one of the few (only?) players that Torre didn't get along with, until his second tour of duty here.
I Love Wang
10-24-05, 12:09 AM
Hey guys...just thought I'd share what I wrote this past Sunday in my column (shame on you if you didn't read it!) :-)
Just how I see it...
Shame on you for writing it. Johnny Damon would be the best Yankee leadoff man since Knoblauch? In what way is Damon a better leadoff man than Jeter? And why do people refuse to acknowledge that Giambi hits demonstrably worse while DHing than while playing the field?
I Love Wang
10-24-05, 12:11 AM
The difference between Mondesi and Bradley is Mondesi was LAZY and wouldn't do as instructed. Bradley has a short, explosive fuse.
get Craig Counsell for backup inf
I'm slowly buying into maybe signing Konerko, altho i don't really see it
NYDCYankee
10-24-05, 12:20 AM
Lets go get Ryan Freel to play CF.
NYDCYankee
10-25-05, 07:31 AM
I don't know if anyone brought up Rosenthal's ideas from a couple days ago so I thought I would post them:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=27856
The Yankees would be truly dangerous if they used their vast resources in a different way -- trading expensive veterans and the majority of their salaries for premium young talent. Let's say New York could send Sheffield to the Blue Jays for righthander Brandon League, Posada to the Diamondbacks for first baseman Conor Jackson and righthander Carl Pavano to the Tigers for center fielder Curtis Granderson. Such deals would make the Yankees a better, more interesting team, and their trading partners would get established veterans at a discount.
I like where he is going actually, I would love a Jackson-Posada and a Pavano-Granderson deal (I think this actually could happen). I would want more back for Sheffield but I would say League is a very good start.
Evil Empire
10-25-05, 07:34 AM
Trading Posada leaves no viable replacement for Catcher. Unless theres someone I'm unaware of.
NYDCYankee
10-25-05, 07:40 AM
Well what about getting one of the young Arizona catchers back in the deal.
vin777b
10-25-05, 08:52 AM
I don't know if anyone brought up Rosenthal's ideas from a couple days ago so I thought I would post them:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=27856
I like where he is going actually, I would love a Jackson-Posada and a Pavano-Granderson deal (I think this actually could happen). I would want more back for Sheffield but I would say League is a very good start.
forward the article to Cash: STAT!
this is the direction this team needs to go. They may have a better record, they may not. Either way, they will be more exciting to watch.
I don't know if anyone brought up Rosenthal's ideas from a couple days ago so I thought I would post them:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=27856
I like where he is going actually, I would love a Jackson-Posada and a Pavano-Granderson deal (I think this actually could happen). I would want more back for Sheffield but I would say League is a very good start.
Trade one of the best hitters in the AL for a guy with control problems? No thanks. If we're gonna trade Sheff to the Jays then I think we should include other players with him and try and get Wells.
NYDCYankee
10-27-05, 01:26 AM
How does everyone feel about bringing on Frank Thomas to play the Ruben Sierra/DH role next year? He was obviously hurt this year but when he is healthy he is a dominating player. Yes he is 37 but he may be a cheap and productive option for us this year.
vin777b
10-27-05, 01:32 AM
huh?
like we need more, all or nothing players, past their prime. Pass.
Yankee Steve
10-27-05, 07:36 AM
Rosenthal's article is interesting in that he finishes it by stating that it is frought with danger and likely failure. What great advice! Either sh*t or get off the pot Ken. If you state your opinion and feel strongly about it, then take the stand, but don't apologize in advance for it most likely failing!
How does everyone feel about bringing on Frank Thomas to play the Ruben Sierra/DH role next year? He was obviously hurt this year but when he is healthy he is a dominating player. Yes he is 37 but he may be a cheap and productive option for us this year.
What's the extent of his injury?
Trading Posada leaves no viable replacement for Catcher. Unless theres someone I'm unaware of.
Maybe along with the signing of Bengie Molina?? :D
How does everyone feel about bringing on Frank Thomas to play the Ruben Sierra/DH role next year? He was obviously hurt this year but when he is healthy he is a dominating player. Yes he is 37 but he may be a cheap and productive option for us this year.
At least Ruben could attempt to play some OF for us. Thomas can't even touch leather anymore.
Crusadecat
10-27-05, 11:14 AM
I don't think Thomas would offer much at this stage in his career. The Yankees need to stay young and atheletic.
JapanJobbers
10-28-05, 05:50 PM
I read that Giles just rejected a 3 year/21 million offer from the Padres and his agent said it wasn't even close. It might take at least 3/30 to get him if he changes his mind about leaving the west coast and the NL.
I read that Giles just rejected a 3 year/21 million offer from the Padres and his agent said it wasn't even close. It might take at least 3/30 to get him if he changes his mind about leaving the west coast and the NL.
This is great. This gives me hope that the Yanks will have a chance to sign him. Just imagine a lineup that has the first 6 guys with an OBP of .400 or higher. :D
I don't know if anyone brought up Rosenthal's ideas from a couple days ago so I thought I would post them:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=27856
I like where he is going actually, I would love a Jackson-Posada and a Pavano-Granderson deal (I think this actually could happen). I would want more back for Sheffield but I would say League is a very good start.
Why would Arizona do a Posada for Jackson, but I'm all for it. One of the top prospects in the Arizona system for a expensive catcher with his skills declining..
ring403
10-30-05, 09:24 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/360438p-307118c.html
As far as the Yankee payroll goes, Cashman is looking at an initial credit of about $55 million, with Bernie Williams, Kevin Brown, Steve Karsay, Felix Rodriguez, Ruben Sierra, Tom Gordon and Mike Stanton all coming off the books.
Between a new contract for Hideki Matsui that will likely raise his salary about $4 million, plus about $10 million for all the other salary increases on backloaded long-term contracts, that number is reduced to about $40 million. The idea is to chop at least $10-15 million off the payroll, meaning Cashman should still have $25-30 million to apply toward center field and at least three relievers. There could be further savings if Carl Pavano is moved - a distinct possibility, assuming the Yankees eat part of his contract. There are numerous clubs believed to be interested on the belief that Pavano, like so many others recently, simply couldn't pitch in New York and will thrive again in a less-pressurized situation.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/360438p-307118c.html
Its amazing that other teams actually buy the "couldn't pitch in NY" crap.
yankeebot
10-30-05, 09:30 AM
Its amazing that other teams actually buy the "couldn't pitch in NY" crap.
While I agree that this sentiment is overused, how many pitchers need to fail in NY then thrive elsewhere before some credence is given to it?
Its amazing that other teams actually buy the "couldn't pitch in NY" crap.
Yeah, because Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras did so terrible when they left NY. What a steal those trades were, Kevin Brown and Esteban Loaiza. :P
While I agree that this sentiment is overused, how many pitchers need to fail in NY then thrive elsewhere before some credence is given to it?
Yeah, because Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras did so terrible when they left NY. What a steal those trades were, Kevin Brown and Esteban Loaiza. :P
In Jose's case it had to do with the stuff about his family and more importantly the pitching coach. Remember in the 03' playoffs? Jose seemed to do allright back then. And Weaver was just a bad pitcher.
27IsNext
10-30-05, 01:48 PM
I do think that Weaver being in New York had a lot to do with it. Contreras, however, was Mel IMO.
NelsonMuntz
10-30-05, 01:55 PM
Its amazing that other teams actually buy the "couldn't pitch in NY" crap.
Seriously. Bully for us if we can use it to unload Wright. I still think Pavano could be a decent #3 guy for us, but I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a centerfielder if the right deal comes along.
NelsonMuntz
10-30-05, 02:02 PM
I do think that Weaver being in New York had a lot to do with it. Contreras, however, was Mel IMO.
Weaver is a decent but not great pitcher who pitched in an incredible pitcher's park in Detroit before coming to NY, then another pitcher's park with a better defense behind him in LA. In NY he was hurt by defense, the park factor, and playing in the AL East. The "can't handle the pressure of NY" theory is just tabloid blather.
Agree with you on Contreras.
prcyankee
10-30-05, 02:20 PM
Wilkerson looks like a dud waiting to happen.
I hope he never gets to NY (unless its the Mets)
:soapbox: :thatsodd:
AMYanks
10-30-05, 02:41 PM
Wilkerson looks like a dud waiting to happen.
Please explain.
NelsonMuntz
10-30-05, 02:43 PM
Wilkerson looks like a dud waiting to happen.
I hope he never gets to NY (unless its the Mets)
:soapbox: :thatsodd:
Based on what, his career .365 OBP, his career 111 OPS+, or his ability to play all three outfield positions and 1B effectively? Please feel free to elaborate.
Enter_Sandman_42
10-30-05, 04:05 PM
Pavano being moved?
According to the New York Daily News, there will be "numerous clubs" interested in taking Carl Pavano if the Yankees are willing to eat a portion of his contract.
Pavano's right shoulder just couldn't handle the pressure of performing in New York, so it's possible he'll be shipped off. It would have been more likely if the Yankees had a shot at Daisuke Matsuzaka. The Yankees aren't expected to pursue starting pitching now, but Matsuzaka was someone they would have targeted had the Seibu Lions made him available. Oct. 30 - 1:23 pm et
Source: New York Daily News
Mattpat11
10-30-05, 04:08 PM
Yeah, because Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras did so terrible when they left NY. What a steal those trades were, Kevin Brown and Esteban Loaiza. :PConteras was terrible for a full year after he left NY, and Jeff's extremely mediocre NL numbers in frigging Yellowstone don't make me pine for the Scream Weaver
Enter_Sandman_42
10-30-05, 04:14 PM
Conteras was terrible for a full year after he left NY, and Jeff's extremely mediocre NL numbers in frigging Yellowstone don't make me pine for the Scream Weaver
the only one so far that we let go out of (contrears, vazquez, lilly, weaver) that has succeeded outta NY is Contreras, Vazquez is as good as he's been in Arizona, Lilly has been semi successful but we never gave him much of a chance so we dont know what he could do in New York, and Weaver has been ok
yank4life2005
10-30-05, 04:16 PM
Pavano being moved?
According to the New York Daily News, there will be "numerous clubs" interested in taking Carl Pavano if the Yankees are willing to eat a portion of his contract.
Pavano's right shoulder just couldn't handle the pressure of performing in New York, so it's possible he'll be shipped off. It would have been more likely if the Yankees had a shot at Daisuke Matsuzaka. The Yankees aren't expected to pursue starting pitching now, but Matsuzaka was someone they would have targeted had the Seibu Lions made him available. Oct. 30 - 1:23 pm et
Source: New York Daily News
Does Pavano have any kind of NTC?
Mattpat11
10-30-05, 04:18 PM
the only one so far that we let go out of (contrears, vazquez, lilly, weaver) that has succeeded outta NY is Contreras, Vazquez is as good as he's been in Arizona, Lilly has been semi successful but we never gave him much of a chance so we dont know what he could do in New York, and Weaver has been ok I agree. Jose seems to have found himself, Vazquez has remained awful, Weaver has been so so at best and Lilly has been hurt.
Does Pavano have any kind of NTC?
I don't think so.
Enter_Sandman_42
10-30-05, 04:23 PM
Does Pavano have any kind of NTC?
I dont believe so.
yank4life2005
10-30-05, 04:25 PM
I don't think so.
I dont believe so.
Thats pretty good to know. I guess this website was wrong..
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
Thats pretty good to know. I guess this website was wrong..
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
That's odd because I was pretty sure Pavano didn't have a NTC.
yank4life2005
10-30-05, 04:35 PM
That's odd because I was pretty sure Pavano didn't have a NTC.
This one here states nothing about it.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
Yankees1962
10-30-05, 04:36 PM
This one here states nothing about it.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
Unless you have the wrong link, yes it does.
signed as a free agent 12/04
05:$9M, 06:$8M, 07:$10M, 08:$11M, 09:$13M club option ($1.95M buyout)
NTC
Pavano may void option by reaching appearance levels (200 IP in 2008 or 400 IP 2007-08), but no buyout is paid
1 year/$3.8M (2004), avoided arbitration 1/04
$50,000 All Star incentive
1 year/$1.5M (2003) 12/02
1 year/$1.3125M (2002), avoided arbitration 2/02 ($1.425M - $1.2M)
1 year/$1.3M (2001)
agent: Scott Shapiro, MASS
ML service: 6.161
yank4life2005
10-30-05, 04:38 PM
Unless you have the wrong link, yes it does.
Sorry..try this one
http://www.mlb4u.com/nyy.html
I have just done a google search for 'Carl Pavano no trade clause' and have come up empty. I think the site has it wrong as no-one else backs it up.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/360438p-307118c.html
The Yankees desperately need to upgrade the bench as well, particularly at back up catcher.
38Special
10-30-05, 04:52 PM
The Yankees desperately need to upgrade the bench as well, particularly at back up catcher.
I agree. Guys like Matt LeCroy and Todd Greene should be targets hopefully
tatanka9
10-30-05, 04:53 PM
It appears that, assuming Matsui is signed, Cash is going to worry about OF defense, BP, and backup 1B. If any teams are willing to take on 1-2 years of veteran contracts, Yanks should consider moving Sheff for 2-3 prospects. Given the ChiSox simple moves last year, a lot of teams may feel they are only 1-2 vets from contention in 2006. If ChiSox lose Konerko, Sheffield for Rowand(CF), Marte(LHRP) and a ml arm may not be far-fetched.
I agree. Guys like Matt LeCroy and Todd Greene should be targets hopefully
I agree about Matt LeCroy, good hitter who would be a huge improvement on Flaherty.
whalers
10-30-05, 04:58 PM
"In a sign that The Bronx has newfound clout in the dysfunctional Yankee family, the organization meetings will be held in New York beginning next week. Historically, they are held in Tampa where George Steinbrenner attends. It's not likely The Boss will travel to New York for this round of meetings, in which plans to find a center fielder will top the agenda. "
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/56473.htm
I like the sound of this.
38Special
10-30-05, 05:01 PM
I agree about Matt LeCroy, good hitter who would be a huge improvement on Flaherty.
I think LeCroy is a good signing in addition to another catcher. LeCroy can play first base, and absolutely destroys lefties.
I think LeCroy is a good signing in addition to another catcher. LeCroy can play first base, and absolutely destroys lefties.
Miguel Olivo absolutely kills lefties as well and is young and could actually be groomed to be half decent. Seems to have stagnated since he left the ChiSox though.
Looking at the various bullpen arms the Yanks may pursue, I think it is important to factor in the way they are used. Hammond, Quantrill and, to a lesser extent, Stanton/Groom were capable relievers that were burned out or left to rot, we need to hope that Torre, Kerrigan/Guidry/whoever changes the Yankee approach to bullpen management.
surge511
10-30-05, 10:00 PM
Looking at the various bullpen arms the Yanks may pursue, I think it is important to factor in the way they are used. Hammond, Quantrill and, to a lesser extent, Stanton/Groom were capable relievers that were burned out or left to rot, we need to hope that Torre, Kerrigan/Guidry/whoever changes the Yankee approach to bullpen management.
Hammond Stanton and Groom were terrible. I think Torre did the right thing in pitching them as little as possible.
Hammond Stanton and Groom were terrible. I think Torre did the right thing in pitching them as little as possible.
Hammond had a sub-3.00 ERA and Stanton/Groom were decent when used against one lefty batter. The problem was Torre keeping them in against righties.
Bernie Inferno
10-30-05, 10:19 PM
Hammond had a sub-3.00 ERA and Stanton/Groom were decent when used against one lefty batter. The problem was Torre keeping them in against righties. And Hammond was used too much against lefties considering the change-up from a lefty is more effective against righties.
And Hammond was used too much against lefties considering the change-up from a lefty is more effective against righties.
The bigger problem was that Hammond, a feel pitcher who needs regular work, often went a week without pitching.
Dooley Womack
10-30-05, 11:50 PM
What's next should be taking care of the Matsui contract, sign BJ (a MUST) and then figure out the CF situation.
Cashman is going to have to pull his authority and tell Torre that he has to take Kerrigan, with Guidry in the bullpen learning the ropes.
bradhamilton
10-31-05, 12:35 AM
Id prefer Robert Fick to LeCroy, can play the outfield as well as 1b and catcher and also likes to hit lefties.
rightfielder21
10-31-05, 06:58 AM
The bigger problem was that Hammond, a feel pitcher who needs regular work, often went a week without pitching.
Rich, Joe does no wrong, you know that...
ring403
10-31-05, 07:56 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/30388.htm
October 31, 2005 -- For the first time in a what seems like an eternity, the Yankees will hold their organizational meetings in New York starting today.
Normally, George Steinbrenner summons GM Brian Cashman, club president Randy Levine and COO Lonn Trost to Florida to meet with whomever is running the Tampa branch of the dysfunctional Yankee family.
However, in a strong indication the worm has turned in regards who are the power brokers in the organization, the meetings will be held in New York, chaired by Cashman, attended by Steinbrenner and the entire branch of the Tampa mafia.
Included in the six-man Tampa contingent which arrives today are Billy Connors and Bill Emslie, Steinbrenner advisors who forced Mel Stottlemyre to resign and generally distrusted by the New York family for their second-guessing of Joe Torre and Cashman to Steinbrenner.
Since the meetings are in New York, Torre might attend, and Gene Michael, whom Cashman wants back in the loop after being pushed aside by Steinbrenner, could be there, too.
jnewmark
10-31-05, 08:21 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/30388.htm
Wow, would I like to be a fly on the wall at THAT meeting !
NewEraYanks2527
10-31-05, 08:35 AM
Does Pavano have any kind of NTC?
I dont believe so, of course am I the only one that is sick and tired of paying other players to pitch somewhere else? I trade Pavano if whoever takes him pays his salary, I dont see why the Yankees need to help other teams pay for someone who helps their club. Thats bull................ and I am sick of seeing it happen.
Dr. Gonzo
10-31-05, 09:09 AM
I don't get why people are so quick to get rid of pavano, give him a chance he can be a very good pitcher. People are so quick to act, one mistake and it is off with their head, its like the French revolution. I hope at work they treat you with the same New York standards. If you can't handle it maybe you can't work in New York.
Sandman
10-31-05, 09:29 AM
Pavano being moved?
Pavano's right shoulder just couldn't handle the pressure of performing in New York, so it's possible he'll be shipped off. Source: New York Daily News
Why would being in NY affect his shoulder more than elsewhere?
Does he straphang on the D train?
Steph19
10-31-05, 01:50 PM
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=303&p=9&c=2&cid=459864&nid=1775444&fhn=1
According to a report from the New York Post, the New York Yankees have expressed some interest in St. Louis Cardinal, Free Agent Julian Tavarez.
Tavarez on his way over? (Sorry if this was posted already)
SINCE77 2
10-31-05, 02:16 PM
I don't know if anyone brought up Rosenthal's ideas from a couple days ago so I thought I would post them:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=27856
I like where he is going actually, I would love a Jackson-Posada and a Pavano-Granderson deal (I think this actually could happen). I would want more back for Sheffield but I would say League is a very good start.
I mentioned trading Pavano for Granderson a few weeks ago and I feel that its a very doable deal. Keeping Pavano for 2006 will likely further depreciate his trade value.Trading Sheff is also a good option, but the Jays aren't the place and Riccardi would never do this. The Cubs are the place for Sheff. Trading Posada is not going to be easy.
MattUNC2003
10-31-05, 02:21 PM
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=303&p=9&c=2&cid=459864&nid=1775444&fhn=1
Tavarez on his way over? (Sorry if this was posted already)
Hey, that's good news to me. He'd replace Sturtze though, guys.
NelsonMuntz
10-31-05, 02:22 PM
Why would being in NY affect his shoulder more than elsewhere?
Does he straphang on the D train?
lol, well if lazy journalists have taught us anything, it's that anytime a mediocre pitcher struggles in New York it has nothing to do with his pitching ability but rather, his ability to handle "the pressure of NY" (make sure you say "the pressure of NY" with an echoing voice, like "Gingivitis" in those old Crest ads).
Hey, that's good news to me. He'd replace Sturtze though, guys.
Good. He's better than Sturtze.
AMYanks
10-31-05, 03:19 PM
Hey, that's good news to me. He'd replace Sturtze though, guys.
I suppose it's a good thing, but he hasn't pitched in the AL since 1996, and had 1 good year out of 4 when he was in this league. If we pay him similar to what we'd pay Sturtze, fine, but I don't think he's that big of an improvement.
Although, we could have them both in middle relief.
ICEBERG18
10-31-05, 03:24 PM
MONDAY, October 31, 2005: posted 3:10 p.m.
THE HEADS OF THE FIVE FAMILIES
The Yankees are holding their organizational meetings in New York on Monday, as the organization's center of gravity shifts northward from Tampa. Brian Cashman and Joe Torre will get their heads for awhile, but if things don't go well they will get their heads handed to them. As C-3PO said, "There will be no escape for the princess this time."
As the capitulation of the Red Sox to Theo Epstein's demands demonstrate, the Yankees got their house in order just in time. The major league free agents are declaring themselves. The minor league free agents have been emancipated. Player options have come due. The weeks after the World Series are no time for teams to be disorganized. In 2004, just-deposed Dodgers general manager Paul DePodesta wasn't hired until February, at which all of the winter action was long over. He was handed a team that, for good or ill, didn't conform to his own ideas. He spent the new two years trying to catch up for that winter's missed opportunities.
It is ironic that DePodesta's dismissal will be viewed in some quarters as evidence that performance analysis and winning don't go together, while across the country Epstein will become a rich man for winning a World Series with a similar approach. The real difference is that Epstein has that championship ring and the approbation of New England for leverage against any jealous superiors, while DePodesta had neither a ring, nor the popularity, nor, apparently, the glad-handing skills to compete with the 78-year-old Tommy Lasorda. That's Darwinism for you.
As the Yankees survey their off-season, some things to keep in mind:
* B.J. Ryan is a no-brainer, but Julian Tavarez is a soon-to-be 32 year-old righty groundball pitcher who got hammered in the second half. Groundball pitchers do not play to New York's strengths. Anything that puts the ball in Robinson Cano's hands doesn't play to New York's strengths. And Jeter's. And maybe A-Rod's. Tavarez gave up six home runs this year, after surrendering a total of two in the previous two seasons. The main point is that, to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln (or something Lincoln supposedly said), God must have loved righty relievers because he made so many of them. There is reason to be extremely skeptical before paying a premium for any Tom, Dick, or Proctor.
* Trading Robinson Cano for Torii Hunter doesn't make a lot of sense unless the organization has a strong sense that Rafael Furcal will be signed and moved to second base. Two caution flags on that: Furcal is 28 next August and may have peaked this year with his .284/.348/.429 season. The ultimate irony: if Furcal is signed, the Yankees would then have two shortstops playing out of position for Derek Jeter, by far the worst glove among the three.
* For all his supposed teaching skills, Ron Guidry is inexperienced, so having Joe Kerrigan back him up as bullpen coach makes sense, though the pitching coach #1 and #1-A scenario will only work if Kerrigan is committed to being loyal to Gator.
* As they have for the past year, rumors abound that the Reds might be ready to move Adam Dunn ('cause, you know, strikeouts and walks are annoying). No doubt they will ask a great deal for a player with 89 home runs over the past two seasons, but if the Yankees still have chips to deal after they've nailed down a center fielder, Dunn would be a great acquisition. Though not a defensive standout at any position, he can play first base and an outfield corner. His presence would make for a very productive first base/right field/designated hitter rotation with Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield. If Sheffield is in right, Dunn or Giambi is the DH. If Giambi is at first, Dunn is the DH or the right fielder. Possible problems with this scenario: Dunn proves to be overly dependent on the Great American Ballpark for his production (he batted .221/.359/.446 away from there in 2005); his defense is so bad the Yankees don't want to put him in the field at any time; an avid hunter, there isn't enough wildlife in the TriState area to satisfy Dunn's primitive urges; New York area sportswriters, broadcasters, and talk show hosts cannot be induced to sign a pledge stating that they will not spent all season bitching about his strikeouts.
*If Dunn can't be done, and maybe even if he can, Lyle Overbay wouldn't be a bad little acquisition at all, though not a player worth selling the farm for.
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
at the end of the day if we have a bullpen of:
CL: Mo
RP: BJ Ryan
RP: Tom Gordon
RP: Sturtze
RP: Tavarez
RP: Proctor/Bean
RP: Small/Wright
I would be quite content
AMYanks
10-31-05, 03:38 PM
at the end of the day if we have a bullpen of:
CL: Mo
RP: BJ Ryan
RP: Tom Gordon
RP: Sturtze
RP: Tavarez
RP: Proctor/Bean
RP: Small/Wright
I would be quite content
Obviously you would. :lol:
I think it's nearly impossible Gordon comes back here to be the 7th inning pitcher.
NelsonMuntz
10-31-05, 04:22 PM
Not sure I want Tavarez. He's had a very erratic career and as noted in the YES blog article, a groundball relief pitcher may not be the best match for our infield defense. On the plus side, he's not F-Rod, Embree or Proctor.
RedPDT42
10-31-05, 04:48 PM
You do or you don't. I think they will, we've seen it the past 2 years. Let me know.
Steph19
10-31-05, 04:53 PM
Not sure I want Tavarez. He's had a very erratic career and as noted in the YES blog article, a groundball relief pitcher may not be the best match for our infield defense. On the plus side, he's not F-Rod, Embree or Proctor.
Can we really play to the strengths of our defense? If your going to say the infield is bad, then the outfield... wow.
But, it's likely we'll get a decent CFer so I guess it'll be less a problem next year.
38Special
10-31-05, 05:03 PM
Tavarez is a bit of a headcase, but if hes brought in in conjuction with some other guys (like Ryan), id like it.
SINCE77 2
10-31-05, 07:32 PM
MONDAY, October 31, 2005: posted 3:10 p.m.
* As they have for the past year, rumors abound that the Reds might be ready to move Adam Dunn ('cause, you know, strikeouts and walks are annoying). No doubt they will ask a great deal for a player with 89 home runs over the past two seasons, but if the Yankees still have chips to deal after they've nailed down a center fielder, Dunn would be a great acquisition. Though not a defensive standout at any position, he can play first base and an outfield corner. His presence would make for a very productive first base/right field/designated hitter rotation with Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield. If Sheffield is in right, Dunn or Giambi is the DH. If Giambi is at first, Dunn is the DH or the right fielder. Possible problems with this scenario: Dunn proves to be overly dependent on the Great American Ballpark for his production (he batted .221/.359/.446 away from there in 2005); his defense is so bad the Yankees don't want to put him in the field at any time; an avid hunter, there isn't enough wildlife in the TriState area to satisfy Dunn's primitive urges; New York area sportswriters, broadcasters, and talk show hosts cannot be induced to sign a pledge stating that they will not spent all season bitching about his strikeouts.
*If Dunn can't be done, and maybe even if he can, Lyle Overbay wouldn't be a bad little acquisition at all, though not a player worth selling the farm for.
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
Dunn is the last player that this team needs. I really don't see the fascination. Overbay on the other hand would be a sound acquisition, but would cost more than his actual worth to the Yankees. I'd rather have Travis Lee if shoring up 1B defense is part of the Yankees offseason plan.
http://www.kffl.com/hotw/mlb
Mariners | Team Accepting Offers for Ichiro
Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:41:53 -0800
InsideBayArea.com's Dave Del Grande reports the Seattle Mariners (http://www.kffl.com/team/66/mlb) are accepting offers for OF Ichiro Suzuki (http://www.kffl.com/player/5559/mlb). Rumors have floated that Suzuki is growing tired of losing and wants out of Seattle, but it has not been reported.
I know it would cost us major league talent and our best prospects, but how incredible would a focused, motivated Ichiro be batting in front of Jeter?
He has $26 million left on his contract through 2007. I'm only guessing but it seems like the M's would ask for Duncan/Hughes, Wang and cash.
AMYanks
10-31-05, 08:38 PM
I would never give up Duncan, Hughes, AND Wang for Ichiro, never. I wouldn't even give up 2 of those prospects for Ichiro.
I would never give up Duncan, Hughes, AND Wang for Ichiro, never. I wouldn't even give up 2 of those prospects for Ichiro.
I was suggesting one or the other, not both, but this is just a weak rumor at this point.
SINCE77 2
10-31-05, 08:51 PM
http://www.kffl.com/hotw/mlb
Mariners | Team Accepting Offers for Ichiro
Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:41:53 -0800
InsideBayArea.com's Dave Del Grande reports the Seattle Mariners (http://www.kffl.com/team/66/mlb) are accepting offers for OF Ichiro Suzuki (http://www.kffl.com/player/5559/mlb). Rumors have floated that Suzuki is growing tired of losing and wants out of Seattle, but it has not been reported.
I know it would cost us major league talent and our best prospects, but how incredible would a focused, motivated Ichiro be batting in front of Jeter?
He has $26 million left on his contract through 2007. I'm only guessing but it seems like the M's would ask for Duncan/Hughes, Wang and cash.
The M's need pitching and showed strong interest in Pavano during the offseason. Ichiro would be the wrong direction to go (price wise), but would be a tremendous asset to have.
ring403
10-31-05, 09:50 PM
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051031&content_id=1263014&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Cashman said that he didn't know when he would speak with Matsui's agent, Arn Tellem, to discuss a new contract for the left fielder.
A source with knowledge of the situation said the two sides would "get started" this week. The Yankees would like to get the deal done before Nov. 15, when the club's window of exclusivity expires.
TheScooter
10-31-05, 10:38 PM
The Yankees kick off their annual offseason meetings today, with Brian Cashman -- having just declared himself the new sheriff in town -- determining the invited guests.
George Steinbrenner not only agreed to give Cashman more control over baseball decisions and move these meetings to New York for the first time in more than a decade, he also allowed the general manager to decide who will join them at the table.
The Tampa-based team officials expected to attend, according to several people familiar with the situation, are general partner Steve Swindal, senior vice president for baseball operations Mark Newman, senior vice president for player personnel Gordon Blakeley, vice president of major-league scouting Bill Emslie, vice president for player personnel Billy Connors and vice president for scouting Damon Oppenheimer.
Scouts Jim Benedict and Jeff Wetherby as well as special assignment instructor Rob Thomson also joined the Tampa contingent on their chartered flight here yesterday. Steinbrenner is believed to have joined the team officials in New York last night.
Manager Joe Torre, team president Randy Levine and COO Lonn Trost are expected to attend. Cashman said Gene Mich.ael, unhappy about his lack of involvement, accepted his offer to be a part of the meetings, which are expected to last two days
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1101,0,4055479.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
I Love Wang
10-31-05, 11:50 PM
I would absolutely not trade for Ichiro. More expensive version of Juan Pierre, plus defense. Grossly overrated as a hitter.
27IsNext
10-31-05, 11:56 PM
I would do Pavano for Ichiro any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Otherise, pass.
27IsNext
10-31-05, 11:58 PM
I would absolutely not trade for Ichiro. More expensive version of Juan Pierre, plus defense. Grossly overrated as a hitter.
I disagree. He has a career .377 OBP, plus speed, and good defense, as you said. He'd be great in the two-hole behind Jeter, as long as it's a "one bad contract for another" type deal.
Enter_Sandman_42
11-01-05, 12:02 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1101,0,4055479.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
very good news, that Stick is going to attend, hopefully him, Swindal, Cash and Joe can put together a good team for next year.
Enter_Sandman_42
11-01-05, 12:03 AM
I disagree. He has a career .377 OBP, plus speed, and good defense, as you said. He'd be great in the two-hole behind Jeter, as long as it's a "one bad contract for another" type deal.
wait a minute, Ichiro would be batting behind Jeter? why? Jeter is the best #2 hitter in the league, and Ichiro is a very good lead off hitter. or are you talking about someone else?
27IsNext
11-01-05, 12:06 AM
wait a minute, Ichiro would be batting behind Jeter? why? Jeter is the best #2 hitter in the league, and Ichiro is a very good lead off hitter. or are you talking about someone else?
I'm looking at the fact that Jeter has a better career OBP. But swapping them would be fine.
I disagree. He has a career .377 OBP, plus speed, and good defense, as you said. He'd be great in the two-hole behind Jeter, as long as it's a "one bad contract for another" type deal.
His OBP is predicated alot on his average and speed though just like Pierre. Plus its risky because his speed will decline and those numerous amount of infield hits he gets will decrease. All that said, if it would be possible to trade a Pavano or Wright for him you would have to do it.
Enter_Sandman_42
11-01-05, 12:17 AM
I'm looking at the fact that Jeter has a better career OBP. But swapping them would be fine.
I'd rather it be Ichiro 1 (he's way faster than Jeter and can get infield hits and get on base as well as get singles, doubles etc) and Jeter 2 (because he's the best #2 hitter in the game)
Enter_Sandman_42
11-01-05, 01:40 AM
"It's a deadline," Cashman said of the 15th. "It's all or nothing. If we don't sign him we have to release him. I know there is a day in May, but if we don't sign him (by the 15th), he is gone."
I like how Cashman is telling Matsui that HE'S in charge, and if Matsui wants to stay it will be on our grounds not his, we want him signed, he wants to remain with us supposably, no fu**ing around, GET IT DONE
Hideki on the clock (http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/56654.htm)
GimeMoMuny
11-01-05, 01:40 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/56654.htm
"We have talked and we will talk again later in the week and then in Palm Springs," said Tellem, who refused to discuss what the 31-year-old Matsui is looking for.
"The GM meetings will be when we get into it. Obviously, Hideki would like to work something out with the Yankees."
One thing is certain — if the Yankees and Matsui want to remain in the relationship, it has to get done in two weeks.
"It's a deadline," Cashman said of the 15th. "It's all or nothing. If we don't sign him we have to release him. I know there is a day in May, but if we don't sign him (by the 15th), he is gone."
JapanJobbers
11-01-05, 02:20 AM
His OBP is predicated alot on his average and speed though just like Pierre. Plus its risky because his speed will decline and those numerous amount of infield hits he gets will decrease. All that said, if it would be possible to trade a Pavano or Wright for him you would have to do it.
Ichiro is vastly superior to Pierre. It's not even close IMO.
He is better when he hits for a high average, but he's still a above average player even in his down years.
This year Pierre put up a .276/326/354
Ichiro put up a 303/350/436.
Like Matsui, he's very streaky.
The advantage of Ichiro is that if he really wants to win, I'm sure he would play CF which would increase his value a lot.
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CTyankeefan
11-01-05, 02:23 AM
I don't know if anyone brought up Rosenthal's ideas from a couple days ago so I thought I would post them:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=27856
I like where he is going actually, I would love a Jackson-Posada and a Pavano-Granderson deal (I think this actually could happen). I would want more back for Sheffield but I would say League is a very good start.
Horrible. Can those guys become major league players before we trade away good players?
Serious. I bet most of you are waiting for Gabe Kapler and Ruben Rivera to still pan out. THOSE GUYS WERE CAN'T miss. Remember?
TheScooter
11-01-05, 06:16 AM
With general manager Brian Cashman committed to paring payroll and increasing the Yankees' youth, expect Robinson Cano and Chien-Ming Wang to be in pinstripes when the 2006 season begins.
Dealing these one-time prospects who made significant contributions during the Yankees' run to the AL East title "doesn't make any sense,'' Cashman said Monday, adding that it "wouldn't be valid to speculate'' about such a transaction.
:2thumbs:
The Yankees don't seem to be enamored of free agent Johnny Damon. But they probably can't persuade the Twins to trade them Torii Hunter unless Cano and another significant hitter is added to the deal.
With corner outfielders such as Brian Giles, Jacque Jones and Reggie Sanders available via free agency, the Yanks could explore signing such a player and making Gary Sheffield available in a trade to fill a center field spot.
Sheffield's value is unquestioned, but he has a history of being disgruntled by the contracts he signs and could cause the Yankees more grief in the final year of his $39 million pact.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MDY0NjImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
Saxmania
11-01-05, 07:26 AM
Giles isn't quite Sheffield offensively, but he's the next best thing. If we were to replace Sheffield with Giles (at say 2 years, $24m, with an option for a 3rd), we probably come out about even in terms of offense and defense combined, while freeing up Sheffield in a potential trade for a CF. If that CF is above league-average offensively and defensively, then our pitching also gets better. Add some bullpen, and serve.
Trading Sheffield may not appeal to many, given his offensive excellence and importance to the 2004-5 team, but we've got to give up value to get value. Since Gary apparently is unhappy with his current contract, perhaps he'll be more willing to move to another team who might offer an extension. A little cash thrown in by the Yankees couldn't hurt, either.
I just looked up Brian Giles' 2002 season with the Pirates. Wow.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
NelsonMuntz
11-01-05, 09:46 AM
Giles isn't quite Sheffield offensively, but he's the next best thing. If we were to replace Sheffield with Giles (at say 2 years, $24m, with an option for a 3rd), we probably come out about even in terms of offense and defense combined, while freeing up Sheffield in a potential trade for a CF. If that CF is above league-average offensively and defensively, then our pitching also gets better. Add some bullpen, and serve.
Trading Sheffield may not appeal to many, given his offensive excellence and importance to the 2004-5 team, but we've got to give up value to get value. Since Gary apparently is unhappy with his current contract, perhaps he'll be more willing to move to another team who might offer an extension. A little cash thrown in by the Yankees couldn't hurt, either.
I just looked up Brian Giles' 2002 season with the Pirates. Wow.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
I'm definitely in the "don't trade Sheffield" camp as his offensive production would be sorely missed, but I would be much more open to the idea if we signed Giles.
I'm in the "if we can trade Pavano for Ichiro then do it" camp. Plus I'd sign Giles and keep Sheff to be the DH and look for another OF to play CF/LF.
Saxmania
11-01-05, 09:56 AM
I'm definitely in the "don't trade Sheffield" camp as his offensive production would be sorely missed, but I would be much more open to the idea if we signed Giles.
I know what you mean. For information:
Gary Sheffield, RHB (age 36): Career OPS+ 146, 2005 OPS+ 132, 2005 win shares 33
Brian Giles, LHB (age 34): Career OPS+ 146, 2005 OPS+ 148, 2005 win shares 35
It's entirely plausible that Giles could outproduce Sheffield in Yankee Stadium, with better defense to boot, and a decent record of health. Not that I'm saying we need to trade Sheffield ASAP, just that the immediate knee-jerk fan dismay might be misplaced. According to win shares, Giles was the fourth-best position player in baseball last year.
In the interests of fairness, I should admit that I don't like Gary Sheffield very much as a person.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
SINCE77 2
11-01-05, 11:41 AM
Giles is a nice hitter, but he is just more of what we already have and really doesn't make us any better. I really believe that its time to think outside of the box and start adding a bit of diversification to the lineup. Personally I'd rather have Ichiro in RF as he is a better fielder with a better arm and has the type of bat that this team needs.
Giles is a nice hitter, but he is just more of what we already have and really doesn't make us any better. I really believe that its time to think outside of the box and start adding a bit of diversification to the lineup. Personally I'd rather have Ichiro in RF as he is a better fielder with a better arm and has the type of bat that this team needs.
I'm sure the Mariners would gladly trade him for Hughes, Duncan, Wang, and Chacon. The concept that somehow Pavano gets back Ichiro, as was stated above, I just find laughable.
27IsNext
11-01-05, 02:24 PM
I'm sure the Mariners would gladly trade him for Hughes, Duncan, Wang, and Chacon. The concept that somehow Pavano gets back Ichiro, as was stated above, I just find laughable.
I never said they would do the deal. I'm saying it's the only way I'd accept a deal for Ichiro.
I never said they would do the deal. I'm saying it's the only way I'd accept a deal for Ichiro.
Then why bother mentioning it? I'd love to have all sorts of players traded to the Yankees for guys we want to dump, but reality has to play some kind of part here, doesn't it?
BTW, you cannot receive any pick in the top half of the first round as compensation. If the Royals were to sign an arbitration offered Yankee free agent, the Yankees would get their first pick in the second round and a supplmemental pick between the first and second rounds.
George Steinbrenner
11-01-05, 03:51 PM
"In a sign that The Bronx has newfound clout in the dysfunctional Yankee family, the organization meetings will be held in New York beginning next week. Historically, they are held in Tampa where George Steinbrenner attends. It's not likely The Boss will travel to New York for this round of meetings, in which plans to find a center fielder will top the agenda. "
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/56473.htm
I like the sound of this.
why wouldnt I attend my own meetings? Nonsense. Ill be there.
George Steinbrenner
11-01-05, 03:52 PM
Giles is a nice hitter, but he is just more of what we already have and really doesn't make us any better. I really believe that its time to think outside of the box and start adding a bit of diversification to the lineup. Personally I'd rather have Ichiro in RF as he is a better fielder with a better arm and has the type of bat that this team needs.
if we somehow got Ichiro (wont happen) he would play center
27IsNext
11-01-05, 03:54 PM
Then why bother mentioning it? I'd love to have all sorts of players traded to the Yankees for guys we want to dump, but reality has to play some kind of part here, doesn't it?
BTW, you cannot receive any pick in the top half of the first round as compensation. If the Royals were to sign an arbitration offered Yankee free agent, the Yankees would get their first pick in the second round and a supplmemental pick between the first and second rounds.
It was mentioned that the Ms might have interest in Pavano. It was a hypothetical that the only guy I'd trade Carl for is Ichiro.
I didn't know that. Thanks.
ring403
11-01-05, 09:40 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/02/sports/baseball/02rivals.html
Gene Michael, a strong ally of Cashman who became distanced from Steinbrenner, was also among those at the meeting. Cashman said the team had not contacted any agents and was still considering which players to pursue.
He said the Yankees reached a consensus on their coaching staff: Larry Bowa was named third-base coach yesterday, and the team is planning to install Lee Mazzilli as bench coach, Ron Guidry as pitching coach, Tony Peña as first-base coach and Joe Kerrigan as bullpen coach.
The one obvious priority, Cashman said, is to re-sign left fielder Hideki Matsui, who can become a free agent if the Yankees do not sign him by Nov. 15. If they do not meet that deadline, the Yankees will lose negotiating rights to Matsui until May.
"We have no choice - we have a time constraint," Cashman said. "We'd like to keep him, and I know he'd like to stay. We just haven't negotiated value yet."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/02/sports/baseball/02rivals.html
So a former coach at 3rd base, 1st base, bench and bullpen? talk about too many cooks in the kitchen.....
It may not be a bad thing but it should be interesting to see how it all works out.
Steph19
11-01-05, 09:52 PM
Amazing that the only holdovers from last year's staff are Torre and Mattingly.
AMYanks
11-01-05, 10:01 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/02/sports/baseball/02rivals.html
Guidry pitching coach, and Kerrigan bullpen coach? Eh, wish it was the other way around.
27IsNext
11-01-05, 10:49 PM
As Rich said, all that matters is how duties are divided. But I too with it was the other way around. Considering Kerrigan's reputation, this is just asking for trouble.
As Rich said, all that matters is how duties are divided. But I too with it was the other way around. Considering Kerrigan's reputation, this is just asking for trouble.
As far as I remember, Kerrigan was only ever a head coach for a couple of weeks, what are you referring to?
27IsNext
11-01-05, 11:13 PM
As far as I remember, Kerrigan was only ever a head coach for a couple of weeks, what are you referring to?
I'm referring to his history of using the media to second-guess others. Making Guidry pitching coach and giving Kerrigan the "lesser role" of BP coach is going to be quite an adventure.
ShaneTravis
11-02-05, 08:56 AM
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MDY4NjQmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
"As for those meetings, general manager Brian Cashman said they "went well'' and that talks would continue today. Certain plans may involve trading Gary Sheffield, Carl Pavano or Jaret Wright, though the Yankees' first focus is on re-signing Hideki Matsui - possibly to a three-year deal with an option worth a potential $44 million."
"Went well and Certain plans"----Thanks for the update Bergen record. Can you not be so specific?
yank4life2005
11-02-05, 09:00 AM
Any chance that Brian Giles would come to the Yankees? :)
wileedog
11-02-05, 09:04 AM
Any chance that Brian Giles would come to the Yankees? :)
I'd be shocked if he did.
Happy, but shocked.
yank4life2005
11-02-05, 09:09 AM
I'd be shocked if he did.
Happy, but shocked.
I would be thrilled if he did but everything that I have read is that he doesn't care for NY and wants to stay in the West Coast. Cleveland and St Louis have expressed interest in him.
Kerrigan for stats, mechanics and scouting reports. Guidry for the kicks in the ass, pep talks and counter clicking.
Amazing that the only holdovers from last year's staff are Torre and Mattingly.
I'm puzzled by the Bowa for Sojo switch. Send 'em Sojo absolutely needed to stop coaching 3B, but Bowa? And why not make Sojo bench coach to replace Girardi - he managed AA Norwich and will be a coach for Venezuela's team in the upcoming World Baseball Classic.
I guess I just don't get the Mazzilli love.
As for Kerrigan/Guidry, I agree it's about the roles not the titles. Apparently Kerrigan's relationship with Cash grew after Brian brought him in to do scouting this year, and Cash credited him with helping get the most out of Small and Chacon. Guidry got the title because he's the Yankee name, Kerrigan got his job because it sounds like he actually contributed to the team this season. Sounds like he's a situations/stats guy. (http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/112858071060010.xml&coll=1)
Guidry's been working with the Yankee pitchers in ST for years, so that's encouraging.
I know nothing about Kerrigan's supposed reputation for criticising/second guessing, but I do recall that the Bosox players were mighty pissed when he was canned, FWIW. If either guy can bring Pavano out of the witness protection program, even if it's just to showcase him for a trade, I'll be happy.
yank4life2005
11-02-05, 11:09 AM
Kerigan has the reputation of stabbing people in the back but is still considered a good pitching coach. Time will tell how he would adjust to playing second fiddle to Guidry.
Kulish29
11-02-05, 11:11 AM
I'm puzzled by the Bowa for Sojo switch. Send 'em Sojo absolutely needed to stop coaching 3B, but Bowa?
Bowa's been a 3rd base coach before and is regarded as a good one.
Kerigan has the reputation of stabbing people in the back...
That's what I've read here, but I've seen no links or specific examples. I'm just curious as to what this is based on.
That's what I've read here, but I've seen no links or specific examples. I'm just curious as to what this is based on.
I wouldn't call it back stabbing, but the issue seems to be that he has clashed with some veteran pitchers who think that Kerrigan has taken too much public credit for their success.
yank4life2005
11-02-05, 11:34 AM
Kerrigan did straighten out RJ after talking to him for 30 minutes. RJ was impressive in his next handful of starts.
Kerrigan did straighten out RJ after talking to him for 30 minutes. RJ was impressive in his next handful of starts.
And it's the fact that we know that that starts to grate on pitchers. Kerrigan isn't afraid to let the press know that he worked with a guy. I'm not saying I have a problem with it, but this is the root of the personality issues that pitchers have had with him.
yank4life2005
11-02-05, 11:40 AM
Guidry is a class guy and I hope that Kerigan can take him under his wing and not have any bad intentions. I trust Joe Torre and he wants Guidry after watching what he has done in Spring Training over the past seasons.
And it's the fact that we know that that starts to grate on pitchers. Kerrigan isn't afraid to let the press know that he worked with a guy. I'm not saying I have a problem with it, but this is the root of the personality issues that pitchers have had with him.
That may be an area in which Torre's people skills could possibly ameliorate that problem.
ICEBERG18
11-03-05, 03:37 PM
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
AMYanks
11-03-05, 03:53 PM
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
Rivera & Posada for Wells :(.
Yankees1962
11-03-05, 03:56 PM
Rivera & Posada for Wells :(.
Take heart to the following old proverb stated many years ago about trades.
"Some of the best trades are the ones that were never made"
So why not a 3-way deal with Texas and someone else netting our CF. Pavano & cash for Soriano who would then be sent for our CF??
Saxmania
11-03-05, 05:23 PM
So why not a 3-way deal with Texas and someone else netting our CF. Pavano & cash for Soriano who would then be sent for our CF??
Soriano - just say the last two letters. He's a good player, but poor defensively, and apparently not inclined to move to the outfield. He'll be overpaid, and there are better CFs out there who can hit about as well while costing much less (Wilkerson).
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
AMYanks
11-03-05, 05:25 PM
Soriano - just say the last two letters. He's a good player, but poor defensively, and apparently not inclined to move to the outfield. He'll be overpaid, and there are better CFs out there who can hit about as well while costing much less (Wilkerson).
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
I thought the poster's point was to acquire Soriano, and then use him in a trade to get a CF. I might be wrong.
I thought the poster's point was to acquire Soriano, and then use him in a trade to get a CF. I might be wrong.
Exactly what I meant. Sori is an infielder!
MassNYYfan
11-03-05, 10:58 PM
I would be thrilled if he did but everything that I have read is that he doesn't care for NY and wants to stay in the West Coast.
So buy him a house on the beach and set all his clocks back 3 hours, tell him games are at 4 and it gets dark early, its normal. ;)
TheScooter
11-04-05, 05:00 AM
Seibu Lions righthander Daisuke Matsuzaka still hopes to pitch in the major leagues this season even after his Japanese League team rejected his request to leave earlier this week. And if Matsuzaka somehow can convince his current employers to reverse course, the Yankees are expected to hotly pursue the pitcher considered by many to be the best in the Japanese League.
A major-league source said Yankees officials were severely disappointed when Seibu on Monday declined Matsuzaka's request to be offered to the big leagues, though not as disappointed as Matsuzaka, 25, who recently hired agent Scott Boras to help him realize his dream to play baseball in the United States.
While the Yankees don't have an obvious need for starting pitching and aren't interested in pursuing accomplished free-agent pitchers such as Kevin Millwood and Kenny Rogers, apparently they like Matsuzaka enough to make an exception, if only Seibu will consent to "post" the pitcher, which means to offer him here for bids.
Yankees reports are extremely favorable on Matsuzaka, who went 14-13 with a 2.30 ERA and led the Pacific League in strikeouts (226), innings (215) and complete games (15)
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks044497798nov04,0,7144728.story?coll=ny-sports-print
He is a Scott Boras client
27IsNext
11-04-05, 11:46 AM
If he gets posted, and the Yankees do sign him, I fully expect Wright or Pavano to get moved.
SINCE77 2
11-04-05, 12:09 PM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks044497798nov04,0,7144728.story?coll=ny-sports-print
He is a Scott Boras client
I am in favor of trading Pavano for a CF and signing Matsuzaka should he get posted. I really don't think that Pavano is a great fit in the Bronx.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks044497798nov04,0,7144728.story?coll=ny-sports-print
He is a Scott Boras client
I would fully endorse signing him if it doesn't prevent us from signing a player that we deperately need like BJ Ryan because of money issues. He doesn't cost us any draft picks or minor leaguer. He's also 25 years old. With him, Wang, Chacon, we would have 3 guys under 30.
flymick24
11-04-05, 01:59 PM
If he gets posted, and the Yankees do sign him, I fully expect Wright or Pavano to get moved.
not necessarily. matsuzaka has a history of arm problems. but when healthy, he's lights out.
I feel like maybe we should hedge our bets with someone like BJ Ryan. The Red Sox and Mets are going to be going after him very strong and we need to have a contingency should he decide to go elsewhere.
We should certainly try to re-sign Gordon. I also think that we should get a feel for as many effective FA options as possible. This includes guys like:
Bob Howry
Kyle Farnsworth
Rudy Seanez
Ricardo Rincon
Scott Eyre
Julian Tavarez
Joey Eischen
Scott Sauerbeck
or even former closers like Braden Looper, Ugueth Urbina or Octavio Dotel.
We need to do as much as we can to ensure that we don't end up with a horribly mismanaged bullpen and guys like Alan Embree, Wayne Franklin and Felix Rodriguez blowing up 7th inning leads.
Iknowcool
11-04-05, 02:39 PM
What we really need is a quality DH. The best hitter in the game today, Barry Bonds, is available. Maybe we could swing a Giambi-Bonds. That would give us a 3-4-5 of Bonds-Rodriguez-Sheffield. Scary.
What we really need is a quality DH. The best hitter in the game today, Barry Bonds, is available. Maybe we could swing a Giambi-Bonds. That would give us a 3-4-5 of Bonds-Rodriguez-Sheffield. Scary.
We are stuck with Giambi. He makes way too much money for the remainder of his contract. He guranteed at least 65 million for the next 3 years. 18 million in 2006, 21 million in 2007, 21 million in 2008, plus a 5 million dollar buyout in 2009
diehardyankeefan
11-04-05, 02:58 PM
I like the former managers and former players moves this year for our coaching. Here is what else I think.
1. We need a great CF that covers the field very well and can be a leadoff man. I think Crosby should be a utility player.
2. Get B.J. Ryan and another relief pitcher. Gordan, Mo, and Small are the only relievers I can trust that are on the Yankees now.
3. Get a good backup hitting and fielding catcher. I know Flaherty is Johnson's primary catcher, but Flaherty is pathetic at batting.
4. We need a good fielding first baseman. Tino's days are behind him, and Giambi is more like a DH hitter now.
This couldn't have gone in any of the other threads?
diehardyankeefan
11-04-05, 03:17 PM
Well it is just my opinion.
Well it is just my opinion.
You should have put this in an existing thread. Read the rules for starting new threads.
1 thread per user on WE NEED A CFPITCHERBLAHBLAH so everyone knows
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