View Full Version : What next?: '06 Front Office Offseason Plans (merged)
I Love Wang
10-14-05, 01:39 PM
Is Posada 10/5? If he is, he isn't going anywhere.
No. He isn't.
I don't know about the FO's plans, but if it were up to me I would do the following:
1. Trade Sheff to the Cubs for Hairston and prospects. Put Hairston in RF.
2. Acquire Wilkerson to play CF and be our new #2 hitter.
3. Decline Tino's option and see about getting Travis Lee back in pinstripes to play 1st thereby slotting Giambi into the DH role.
4. Look into trading Posada for prospects (Padres might bite), then inquire about Toby Hall.
New Lineup
Jeter SS
Wilkerson CF
Giambi DH
Arod 3B
Matsui LF
Hall C
Cano 2B
Lee 1B
Hairston RF/ Gary Matthews Jr. (Texas) wouldn't be a bad choice either, but he cant play infield positions like Hairston can.
Nope, no new Allstars, just hardnose players who make the plays and hit the ball with little fanfare. IMO, this is a lineup that has a nice balance of power, contact, speed, defense, and OBP. Hey George, sometimes less is more.
I understand that right now you feel like the Yankees have too many "superstars" on the team, but essentially trading Sheffield for what the Cubs got in return from the Sammy Sosa deal is border line clinically insane. You can not replace Sheffield in the lineup with Jerry Hairston and actually expect them to be better, it's simply not going to happen that way.
survelvn
10-14-05, 01:43 PM
2. Acquire Wilkerson to play CF and be our new #2 hitter.
4. Look into trading Posada for prospects (Padres might bite), then inquire about Toby Hall.
Wilkerson I'd be okay with, I guess...but I think we could do alot better. He has a pretty mediocre season...he walks alot, but strikes out a ton too. He could be an okay number 2 hitter, but he'd leave me feeling like we could have done better.
And Toby Hall? Why? For all the complaining about Posada, I don't think Toby Hall is any improvement at all....
Wilkerson I'd be okay with, I guess...but I think we could do alot better. He has a pretty mediocre season...he walks alot, but strikes out a ton too. He could be an okay number 2 hitter, but he'd leave me feeling like we could have done better.
And Toby Hall? Why? For all the complaining about Posada, I don't think Toby Hall is any improvement at all....
Offsenviely he isn't an upgrade but defensively he is.
SINCE77 2
10-14-05, 02:04 PM
I understand that right now you feel like the Yankees have too many "superstars" on the team, but essentially trading Sheffield for what the Cubs got in return from the Sammy Sosa deal is border line clinically insane. You can not replace Sheffield in the lineup with Jerry Hairston and actually expect them to be better, it's simply not going to happen that way.
No team is going to give up much for a 35+yo with a big contract and only one year left on it. I hoping for Hairston and a ML ready middle relief pitcher (a lefty would be nice). You are correct in that I am weary of all the stars on this team. IMO the 2003 team (post trade deadline) was the best one we had since 2000. I don't want to see Giles or Damon come here. What does that tell our existing players? This team needs players who know their roles and stick to them without having to worry about lofty expectations of the fans in concert with their contracts. If a trio like Giambi, Arod, and Matsui can't get the job done in the middle of the order then we are lost. Hairston has vg range and soft hands and can play any part of the outfield in addition to SS and 2B. Wikerson is capable of playing 1B and CF. Toby Hall imo is a better all around catcher than Posada and is very dangerous at the plate. Lee as you know is a superb fielder with decent pop. Most importantly, at least to me is that all of these guys are linedrive/gap hitters who use the whole field and with the exception of Wilkerson don't strike out much.
Ozzie Guillen, when asked about the changes to his team offense said that he got sick of waiting for the 3-run homer every game and wanted to institute an NL style of play. This model was based on the mid to late 90's NY Yankees whose lineup scared no one, but they seemed to keep winning. For the last 2 seasons I too have waited for the 3-run homer from our team and I am sick of it. Maybe its time for a change.
survelvn
10-14-05, 02:11 PM
Toby Hall imo is a better all around catcher than Posada and is very dangerous at the plate.
Better catcher, probably, although I'm no expert on him.
But dangerous at the plate? .287 BA/.315 OBP/.368 SLG? And 5 HR. And those are amound his BEST career numbers. He's 30, so he's not really young anymore...I don't see him getting much better.
As frustrating as Posada may be at time, I'll take his .262/.352/.430 over that, even if his defense isn't quite as good.
RobbiMan
10-14-05, 02:12 PM
No team is going to give up much for a 35+yo with a big contract and only one year left on it. I hoping for Hairston and a ML ready middle relief pitcher (a lefty would be nice). You are correct in that I am weary of all the stars on this team. IMO the 2003 team (post trade deadline) was the best one we had since 2000. I don't want to see Giles or Damon come here. What does that tell our existing players? This team needs players who know their roles and stick to them without having to worry about lofty expectations of the fans in concert with their contracts. If a trio like Giambi, Arod, and Matsui can't get the job done in the middle of the order then we are lost. Hairston has vg range and soft hands and can play any part of the outfield in addition to SS and 2B. Wikerson is capable of playing 1B and CF. Toby Hall imo is a better all around catcher than Posada and is very dangerous at the plate. Lee as you know is a superb fielder with decent pop. Most importantly, at least to me is that all of these guys are linedrive/gap hitters who use the whole field and with the exception of Wilkerson don't strike out much.
Ozzie Guillen, when asked about the changes to his team offense said that he got sick of waiting for the 3-run homer every game and wanted to institute an NL style of play. This model was based on the mid to late 90's NY Yankees whose lineup scared no one, but they seemed to keep winning. For the last 2 seasons I too have waited for the 3-run homer from our team and I am sick of it. Maybe its time for a change.
This may be the most rational post I have ever seen on this board. Kudos SINCE 77. Good thoughts.
No team is going to give up much for a 35+yo with a big contract and only one year left on it. I hoping for Hairston and a ML ready middle relief pitcher (a lefty would be nice).
Yes Gary is 35 and in his last year, but if you deal him at the deadline to a contender it is a joke to think that all the Yankees are going to get back is Jerry Hairston. Hairston hit .260 with a grand total of 4 homeruns. Forget about three homeruns, Jerry didn't hit anything.
Even if you deal Sheff in the offseason, you are going to get better offers than that it's just not realistic to think otherwise with the type of hitter Gary has been his entire career including his Yankees tenure. He may be 35, but he's also the same guy who was a legitimate MVP contender last year.
No team is going to give up much for a 35+yo with a big contract and only one year left on it. I hoping for Hairston and a ML ready middle relief pitcher (a lefty would be nice). You are correct in that I am weary of all the stars on this team. IMO the 2003 team (post trade deadline) was the best one we had since 2000. I don't want to see Giles or Damon come here. What does that tell our existing players? This team needs players who know their roles and stick to them without having to worry about lofty expectations of the fans in concert with their contracts. If a trio like Giambi, Arod, and Matsui can't get the job done in the middle of the order then we are lost. Hairston has vg range and soft hands and can play any part of the outfield in addition to SS and 2B. Wikerson is capable of playing 1B and CF. Toby Hall imo is a better all around catcher than Posada and is very dangerous at the plate. Lee as you know is a superb fielder with decent pop. Most importantly, at least to me is that all of these guys are linedrive/gap hitters who use the whole field and with the exception of Wilkerson don't strike out much.
Ozzie Guillen, when asked about the changes to his team offense said that he got sick of waiting for the 3-run homer every game and wanted to institute an NL style of play. This model was based on the mid to late 90's NY Yankees whose lineup scared no one, but they seemed to keep winning. For the last 2 seasons I too have waited for the 3-run homer from our team and I am sick of it. Maybe its time for a change.
I would like to point out that one of the major criticisms of Joe from posters this year was his too frequent use of the hit and run. They apparently wanted him to wait for more home runs.
Even I would allow that perhaps his worst managerial move duing the ALDS this year was the hit and run that Bernie missed and that led to Cano being thrown out. That could have cost the Y's the series.
Of course it is easier to create runs with speed, but posters here seem to disparage speed as well, as speed is unpopular with Sabermetricians.
I think Joe and certainly George have shown more affinity for "small ball" than the average poster here.
In any event, it is always better to have more skilled and accomplished players, whatever brand of baseball you play. Mediocrity never wins anything.
SINCE77 2
10-14-05, 02:17 PM
This may be the most rational post I have ever seen on this board. Kudos SINCE 77. Good thoughts.
Thank you.
survelvn
10-14-05, 02:19 PM
I would like to point out that one of the major criticisms of Joe from posters this year was his too frequent use of the hit and run. They apparently wanted him to wait for more home runs.
I don't think that the criticism of Torre putting on the hit and run is because people are against running and that type of small ball.
Maybe I'm only speaking for myself, by my issue with it has been that this is NOT a team built for that kind of game. With this Yankee team you DO have to normally wait for the 3-run homerun. And I don't think that's necesarrily a bad type of team.
However, if we had a team built like the White Sox, I don't think there would have been nearly as much criticism over hitting and running. It's all about how your team is built. The 2005 Yanks were not a team design to score runs through bunting, hitting and running, etc (for the most part), so when Torre overused those techniques, of course he was going to be criticized.
SINCE77 2
10-14-05, 02:27 PM
Yes Gary is 35 and in his last year, but if you deal him at the deadline to a contender it is a joke to think that all the Yankees are going to get back is Jerry Hairston. Hairston hit .260 with a grand total of 4 homeruns. Forget about three homeruns, Jerry didn't hit anything.
Even if you deal Sheff in the offseason, you are going to get better offers than that it's just not realistic to think otherwise with the type of hitter Gary has been his entire career including his Yankees tenure. He may be 35, but he's also the same guy who was a legitimate MVP contender last year.
How many teams can afford Gary? Not many. Some of those few that can either already have a solid RF or are looking to get younger. Gary, while a tremendous player tends to ruffle feathers wherever he's at further lowering his pool of potential suitors. The Cubs are one of the few teams that have a need and can afford him. The Yankees are not going to want to pay much of Sheffs salary ergo they won't expect much in return. Hairston plays very good defense and is a doubles hitter who doesn't strike out much (Gary didn't either). We don't need anymore homers, just hits. Along with Jerry would come a young pitcher who is ML ready to spice up the deal with the Cubs paying the majority of Gary's salary.
ICEBERG18
10-14-05, 02:31 PM
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
From which comes this interesting quote:
Shawn Chacon: Go — in trade. His value will never be higher and his strikeout/walk numbers make it hard to believe he'll ever be this good again. It's easy to rationalize his performance — extreme flyball pitcher escapes Colorado. Life isn't that simple.
From which comes this interesting quote:
Can't say I completely disagree.
SINCE77 2
10-14-05, 02:48 PM
From which comes this interesting quote:
Tough call here. If Pavano flops we will wish we had Chacon waiting in the wings. Personally, I'd send Pavano packing to Detroit if I could.
NelsonMuntz
10-14-05, 02:56 PM
From which comes this interesting quote:
Normally I would agree but I think pitching in Colorado messed Chacon up so badly that his NL stats cannot be used to draw what would otherwise be a logical conclusion. He was money for us from the moment he arrived here. I'd dump Small or Wright (I know, easier said than done) in a heartbeat before I'd trade Chacon. I'd even try to move Pavano (and I'm actually one of the few Pavano fans left) before I'd trade Chacon.
allstarcano22
10-14-05, 03:46 PM
Pavano and Wright atleast one of the mhas to pitch good and not get injured this year, Wright just has bad luck, but pitching wise i think its unfair to put Small in the bullpen untill he atleast loses a game as a starter. Another idea i have that may seem kind of weird, this pending on if we can get BJ Ryan to set up Rivera, is have randy go to the pen and be our 6 our 7 inning man. I was thinking about it, al lwe would have to do would be winning ater 5 innings then have the unit, bj and then mo. Randy wouldnt pitch as much so he could just blow fastballs by everyone and then throw the occasional slider to make people look silly, we do have to many starting pitchers. I guess we wil lhave to see how Johnson will pitch this year and then see what happens.
BroadwayBomber55
10-14-05, 05:21 PM
Here's what I want if I were the Yankees: more athleticism, commitment strongly on D, and use the farm system (AND DON'T GIVE THEM CRAZY CONTRACTS).
From FAs: Scott Eyre, B.J. Ryan, Juan Pierre (Pros: Has speed in both offense and defense; Cons: Not a strong arm in CF), Ugeth Urbina as a RH set-up man, Randy Winn at RF (Sheff is permanent DH, not the Ruben Sierra role), sign Bengie Molina
Farm system: continue to develop Bubba Crosby, promote Kevin Thompson, develop and fix Sean Henn, and use J. Brent Cox as set-up to Mo.
Trade: Jorge Posada for prospects (even if I like Jo-Po as a Yankee, we need D behind the plate)
What do you guys think? I'm just doin' educated guesses.
Here's what I want if I were the Yankees: more athleticism, commitment strongly on D, and use the farm system (AND DON'T GIVE THEM CRAZY CONTRACTS).
From FAs: Scott Eyre, B.J. Ryan, Juan Pierre (Pros: Has speed in both offense and defense; Cons: Not a strong arm in CF), Ugeth Urbina as a RH set-up man, Paul Konerko (he can flip-flop 1B/DH roles with Jason Giambi; use Jason as a pinch-hitter, but Jason wants to start), Randy Winn at RF (Sheff is permanent DH, not the Ruben Sierra role), sign Bengie Molina
Farm system: continue to develop Bubba Crosby, promote Kevin Thompson, develop and fix Sean Henn, and use J. Brent Cox as set-up to Mo.
Trade: Jorge Posada for prospects (even if I like Jo-Po as a Yankee, we need D behind the plate)
What do you guys think? I'm just doin' educated guesses.
Juan Pierre will be difficult to acquire and I'm not convinced that he would do well as a Yankee.
BJ Ryan would be great but he might want to close somewhere.
No one wants Posada because his very expensive 2007 option will likely kick in if he even catches part time.
Cox has a lot to do before he becomes a ML-ready bullpen arm.
The Giants are going to pick up the option on Winn.
Giambi will be way to expensive for pinch-hitting duties.
Crosby will be 30 years old next year, he is done developing.
Konerko won't replace being a star in Chicago to be a part-time first baseman in New York.
Does anyone know if Small is an unrestricted FA or is he still arbitration eligible? If he's still our property then he could be a useful trading chip.
BroadwayBomber55
10-14-05, 11:34 PM
Juan Pierre will be difficult to acquire and I'm not convinced that he would do well as a Yankee.
BJ Ryan would be great but he might want to close somewhere.
No one wants Posada because his very expensive 2007 option will likely kick in if he even catches part time.
Cox has a lot to do before he becomes a ML-ready bullpen arm.
The Giants are going to pick up the option on Winn.
Giambi will be way to expensive for pinch-hitting duties.
Crosby will be 30 years old next year, he is done developing.
Konerko won't replace being a star in Chicago to be a part-time first baseman in New York.
Well, back to the drawing board.
I Love Wang
10-14-05, 11:36 PM
B.J. Ryan has indicated he'd be interested in setting up for the Yankees. If we throw enough money at him, he'll sign.
IntangiblesRule
10-15-05, 12:39 AM
Here's what I want if I were the Yankees: more athleticism, commitment strongly on D, and use the farm system (AND DON'T GIVE THEM CRAZY CONTRACTS).
From FAs: Scott Eyre, B.J. Ryan, Juan Pierre (Pros: Has speed in both offense and defense; Cons: Not a strong arm in CF), Ugeth Urbina as a RH set-up man, Paul Konerko (he can flip-flop 1B/DH roles with Jason Giambi; use Jason as a pinch-hitter, but Jason wants to start), Randy Winn at RF (Sheff is permanent DH, not the Ruben Sierra role), sign Bengie Molina
Farm system: continue to develop Bubba Crosby, promote Kevin Thompson, develop and fix Sean Henn, and use J. Brent Cox as set-up to Mo.
Trade: Jorge Posada for prospects (even if I like Jo-Po as a Yankee, we need D behind the plate)
What do you guys think? I'm just doin' educated guesses.
1) Juan Pierre is not good. He's fast, he bunts...and he's terrible at everything else. He's also not a FA
2) Use Giambi as a pinch hitter???? The man raked from June through October. His OPS was Ortiz level from June on. He is a machine at the plate again. Why would you move him to the bench for a right handed hitter who is not as good as he is?
jimmyclark
10-15-05, 12:45 AM
B.J. Ryan has indicated he'd be interested in setting up for the Yankees. If we throw enough money at him, he'll sign.
Use the strategy they did with Steve Karsay several years ago..pay closer money to be a setup guy and promise to make him the closer when Rivera retires (a sobering thought..think how bad things will be when Rivera is no longer closing).
Get a good defensive CF to help the pitching (Wells or Hunter).
BroadwayBomber55
10-15-05, 12:55 AM
1
2) Use Giambi as a pinch hitter???? The man raked from June through October. His OPS was Ortiz level from June on. He is a machine at the plate again. Why would you move him to the bench for a right handed hitter who is not as good as he is?
I was kidding...I was only kidding.
TheTinoMobile
10-15-05, 03:00 AM
CLONE RIVERA.... the Front office needs to start investing properly.... into human genome and human cloning experiments.
http://www.yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-15-05, 06:53 AM
From which comes this interesting quote:
Makeup and the ability to pitch in NY are big things that should not be discounted. Steve Goldman missed this--Chacon has got he makeup. Look at Kevin Brown, Javier Vaquez, the BadDreamWeaver. Chacon has the makeup, and his fastball should have more velocity next year (recovering from leg injury). He was 11-2 pre-All Star in 2003. Give him a shot--he's relatively cheap, he may surprise, and at this point you still have enough starters if he fails (which I think is unlikely).
Snatch Catch
10-15-05, 08:35 AM
Juan Pierre will be difficult to acquire and I'm not convinced that he would do well as a Yankee.
Go figure, since he's not doing well as a Marlin.
Go figure, since he's not doing well as a Marlin.
Hey Snatch, I've got a question for you. You're pretty good at knowing this sort of thing -- Is Small arbitration eligible because he has had such little ML service time or is he now an unrestricted FA?
Prickly Pete
10-15-05, 09:46 AM
Small is arb-eligible, not a free agent.
Small is arb-eligible, not a free agent.
Thanks
I think that Small is one of the best trade chips that the Yankees have. His value will never be higher and it is entirely possible, perhaps probable, that he could come crashing back down to earth next year.
YankeeFan1
10-15-05, 10:46 AM
http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/pinstripedblog.asp
Goldman makes some interesting assessments of the Yankees. He repeats what I and others have been saying about Posada versus the horribleness of Flaherty who should not even be on the Yankees. There has to be a better back up for Posada other there than Flaherty and after his horrific post-season performance Randy Johnson needs to suck it up and stop hurting the Yankees by insisting on Flaherty catching him.
If the Yankees can do a deal with Bernie where he comes back as a pinch hitter and part time DH then that would be great, but if not, Bernie does have to go.
I'm not as convinced as Goldman that signing Beltran would have made any improvement over signing Pavano and Wright, but who knows, really. Plus, it is hard to justify being on the hook for Beltran's kind of money and for 6 years with the kind of production even with the improved defense that he would bring.
I agree with Goldman's take on Mel. I don't know what more could have been expected from the Yankees' pitching given the injured and poor state of the starters. That Mel was able to somehow help Small, Chacon and Wang pitch so well consistently is a miracle. We'll see if the new pitching coach can make sweet oranges of the same bitter lemons who will be pitching next season, especially if Wang and Chacon stay.
LOL! Goldman sees Gordon as a choker as well.
LOL! Goldman sees Gordon as a choker as well.
It is hard to not see him as a choker after looking at his postseason number.
YankeePride1967
10-15-05, 05:52 PM
Given the free agents out there, I would not spend money on starting pitching. I would use the approx. $20 million (I'm estimating after Matsui's increase and any other bumps from the $30 million) we save net from Brown, Williams and Gordon and use it on two relievers and some CF help.
NelsonMuntz
10-15-05, 07:01 PM
Given the free agents out there, I would not spend money on starting pitching. I would use the approx. $20 million (I'm estimating after Matsui's increase and any other bumps from the $30 million) we save net from Brown, Williams and Gordon and use it on two relievers and some CF help.
Agreed. We can get by next year with our current group of starting pitchers if the CF defense and middle relief are upgraded.
BronxByTheBay
10-15-05, 07:06 PM
1.) Sign B.J. Ryan
2.) Sign B.J. Ryan
3.) Sign B.J. Ryan
4.) Sign B.J. Ryan
5.) See if Kotsay's available again, and when told no, go sign B.J. Ryan.
AMYanks
10-15-05, 07:27 PM
1.) Sign B.J. Ryan
2.) Sign B.J. Ryan
3.) Sign B.J. Ryan
4.) Sign B.J. Ryan
5.) See if Kotsay's available again, and when told no, go sign B.J. Ryan.
I like it :2thumbs:.
BroadwayBomber55
10-15-05, 08:33 PM
1.) Sign B.J. Ryan
2.) Sign B.J. Ryan
3.) Sign B.J. Ryan
4.) Sign B.J. Ryan
5.) See if Kotsay's available again, and when told no, go sign B.J. Ryan.
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
Given the free agents out there, I would not spend money on starting pitching. I would use the approx. $20 million (I'm estimating after Matsui's increase and any other bumps from the $30 million) we save net from Brown, Williams and Gordon and use it on two relievers and some CF help.
I like that. Let's just hope George makes the right decisions regarding Cashman and Torre. That should be the first thing this organization should handle first and then comes the players.
alversonk
10-16-05, 07:28 AM
I don't know about the FO's plans, but if it were up to me I would do the following:
1. Trade Sheff to the Cubs for Hairston and prospects. Put Hairston in RF.
2. Acquire Wilkerson to play CF and be our new #2 hitter.
3. Decline Tino's option and see about getting Travis Lee back in pinstripes to play 1st thereby slotting Giambi into the DH role.
4. Look into trading Posada for prospects (Padres might bite), then inquire about Toby Hall.
New Lineup
Jeter SS
Wilkerson CF
Giambi DH
Arod 3B
Matsui LF
Hall C
Cano 2B
Lee 1B
Hairston RF/ Gary Matthews Jr. (Texas) wouldn't be a bad choice either, but he cant play infield positions like Hairston can.
Nope, no new Allstars, just hardnose players who make the plays and hit the ball with little fanfare. IMO, this is a lineup that has a nice balance of power, contact, speed, defense, and OBP. Hey George, sometimes less is more.
I'm glad your not running the team.
About the only thing I agree with you on is bringing back Travis Lee.
Toby Hall Stinks! He's never lived up to the hype of him being an offensive stud and he's so bad with pitching staffs that he doesn't even play regularly.
I really don't understand what we'll gain from getting rid of Sheff. He's our most productive OF bat! Sure maybe he's the most tradable of anyone on the team, but I think we must keep him.
I'm only luke warm on Wilkerson, he seems to be hurt all the time, strikes out alot and doesn't hit for that great of average.
I personally like the idea of signing Jaque Jones either play center or RF when we DH Sheff.
Trade or sign a young speedy centerfielder. David Dejesus sp? from KC looks like he's going to be a stud. I think that Ryan Church is a FA? He's got some speed and defense, but not much of a stick. He'd be like a better version of Bubba Crosby in my opinion.
Get so relief help. I don't have time to elaborate at the moment, but we all know something, ANYTHING, needs to be done with the bullpen aside from Mo.
ICEBERG18
10-16-05, 08:06 AM
but one name you probably can cross off now is free agent Brian Giles, who's never shown a bit of interest in playing in New York. For years his no-trade list allowed him to be dealt only to West Coast teams. The A's, who have to like Giles' 119 walks, are a likely destination.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spflash164472415oct16,0,543944.column?page=2&coll=ny-sports-print
Someone will just have to convince him..
ICEBERG18
10-16-05, 08:31 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/53614.htm
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/53614.htm
Amazingly atrocious deals. Just terrible. Some are treated as if the Yanks are rebuilding, others simply are terrible. The Philadelphia trade is the worst- Pavano and Wright going in a deal for Thome? Huh? A guy who is old, has a terrible back, is bad defensively, and is owed a ton of money for two pitchers who, while hurt most of this year, at least have the potential to be good to very good? Wow.
Sheffield has a ton of value to the Yanks, and not a ton of value outside the Yanks due to his contract status and attitude. I can't imagine a scenario where he gets dealt. The ONLY deal I like there is the ROwand, Cotts trade, and I highly doubt the White Sox do that.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/53614.htm
Joel Sherman is insane. Why would we want some washed up players and unproven players from the Mets and also why would we want Jim Thome? This guy has no clue and is just writing the article to fill in time. I don't want Torii Hunter either. This is why I stay away from reading rags like the NY Post.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
10-16-05, 09:02 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/53614.htm
Ugh...nothing bothers me more than when the media starts throwing @#@#$ against the wall for what the team can do and make up trade scenarios. This is exhibit A. Jim Thome? Sure, sign me up for another big money, defensive liability at first base...who by the way is coming off some significant injuries. Let's do it!
27IsNext
10-16-05, 10:40 AM
but one name you probably can cross off now is free agent Brian Giles, who's never shown a bit of interest in playing in New York. For years his no-trade list allowed him to be dealt only to West Coast teams. The A's, who have to like Giles' 119 walks, are a likely destination.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spflash164472415oct16,0,543944.column?page=2&coll=ny-sports-print
Someone will just have to convince him..
Forget it. He isn't coming here. On to other ideas...
ICEBERG18
10-16-05, 11:28 AM
Forget it. He isn't coming here. On to other ideas...
Until he signs, one should never give up hope, says ICEBERG18. ;)
mycroft
10-16-05, 12:55 PM
The Yankees as they stand are still the best team in baseball. I believe the acquistions of Wang, Small, Leiter and Chacon plus Cano strengthened this team and if it weren't for untimely errors and a lack of clutch hitting we would still be playing.
As far as team changes I don't believe there needs to be wholesale changes or big acquisitions. Brown is gone. See if we can trade Wright for some real bull pen help or even some prospects. A free agent signing like Vernon Wells and maybe BJ Ryan is all that is needed. From a team standpoint I see no reason to panic.
Joe~I like Joe very much as a manager and as a person. We owe a debt of gratitude to him for all of our success and he deserves to return as does Mel. Look at the Braves. Bobby Cox and his staff is still there even though they haven't achieved the success they were expected to achieve. Continuity on a ball club is important to its success. I hope they both return.
SuperMario66
10-16-05, 12:57 PM
I had no idea what this thread was about til I opened it. And then after I did, I found out it was in the wrong forum.
mycroft
10-16-05, 12:59 PM
I had no idea what this thread was about til I opened it. And then after I did, I found out it was in the wrong forum.
Sorry to confuse you. You must be looking for the boston forums.
SuperMario66
10-16-05, 01:01 PM
Sorry to confuse you. You must be looking for the boston forums.
Yeah, because me pointing out that your post lacked a descriptive thread title and was in the wrong forum makes me a Sox fan. Your logic is overwhelming.
George Steinbrenner
10-16-05, 01:34 PM
Thanks
I think that Small is one of the best trade chips that the Yankees have. His value will never be higher and it is entirely possible, perhaps probable, that he could come crashing back down to earth next year.
Theres no doubt he'll crash back to reality next year, Im sure most GMs already know this. But if there are some gullible ones out there we need to bamboozle'm ASAP.
RobbiMan
10-16-05, 01:46 PM
The Yankees as they stand are still the best team in baseball. I believe the acquistions of Wang, Small, Leiter and Chacon plus Cano strengthened this team and if it weren't for untimely errors and a lack of clutch hitting we would still be playing.
"Best Teams in Baseball" don't make these untimely errors and don't repeatedly fail to hit in the clutch. Take the blinders off.
A free agent signing like Vernon Wells and maybe BJ Ryan is all that is needed.
Vernon Wells isn't a free agent.
AMYanks
10-16-05, 02:41 PM
I was just looking at the Nationals, and I had a trade idea:
Would you trade Sheffield ($13M) and Henn (or even get the Nats to bite on Small) to the Nationals for Wilkerson (3M), Jose Guillen ($3.5M), and Luis Ayala ($360,000), maybe another mid-level prospect, and we send the $7M or so to the Nationals to make up for the deal?
Gives us a RF who is not as good offensively, but is younger, and is better defensively, a CFer who is great defensively and can get on base, and a good 7th inning pitcher, or even a good set-up man should we lose out on Ryan.
Thoughts?
I was just looking at the Nationals, and I had a trade idea:
Would you trade Sheffield ($13M) and Henn (or even get the Nats to bite on Small) to the Nationals for Wilkerson (3M), Jose Guillen ($3.5M), and Luis Ayala ($360,000), maybe another mid-level prospect, and we send the $7M or so to the Nationals to make up for the deal?
Gives us a RF who is not as good offensively, but is younger, and is better defensively, a CFer who is great defensively and can get on base, and a good 7th inning pitcher, or even a good set-up man should we lose out on Ryan.
Thoughts?
I would do that, but why would the Nats?
AMYanks
10-16-05, 02:46 PM
I would do that, but why would the Nats?
They have a plethora of outfielders, and the rumor is Wilkerson might not start. Sheffield is an offensive improvement, and since we're sending money, the salary is equal, and they would be getting back a good left-handed pitching prospect.
Again, I might have short-changed them, but I think it's possible. Perhaps we'd have to add another mid-level prospect, or even one of our higher end guys like Melky, I'm not sure.
SINCE77 2
10-16-05, 03:05 PM
I'm glad your not running the team.
About the only thing I agree with you on is bringing back Travis Lee.
Toby Hall Stinks! He's never lived up to the hype of him being an offensive stud and he's so bad with pitching staffs that he doesn't even play regularly.
I really don't understand what we'll gain from getting rid of Sheff. He's our most productive OF bat! Sure maybe he's the most tradable of anyone on the team, but I think we must keep him.
I'm only luke warm on Wilkerson, he seems to be hurt all the time, strikes out alot and doesn't hit for that great of average.
I personally like the idea of signing Jaque Jones either play center or RF when we DH Sheff.
Trade or sign a young speedy centerfielder. David Dejesus sp? from KC looks like he's going to be a stud. I think that Ryan Church is a FA? He's got some speed and defense, but not much of a stick. He'd be like a better version of Bubba Crosby in my opinion.
Get so relief help. I don't have time to elaborate at the moment, but we all know something, ANYTHING, needs to be done with the bullpen aside from Mo.
Its obvious that you you can't appreciate the value that other teams place on their own players. Why would KC trade Dejesus? Just to help the Yankees out perhaps? Toby Hall is not an offensive stud, but he is a solid hitter who makes contact, uses all fields and plays better D than Posada. Wilkerson gives the Yankees a much needed #2 hitter who gets on base at a .350 clip and hits lots of XBH. He is a player who the Yankees "could" acquire with their limited trade assets.Speaking of Sheff (a player who I like a lot) , offense is not the Yankees problem, timely hitting is. The Yankees advanced further in 2003 without Sheff and Arod then they have in the past 2 seasons. If this team can't compete with Arod, Giambi, Jeter, Matsui as their primary threats in the lineup then we have big problems. The White Sox have a crappy offense comparitively speaking and they are rolling along into October. Same with the Astros and the Angels. You win with good defense, timely hitting, good bullpen and starting rotation. A RF like Hairston (also attainable with the Yankees limited trade assets) brings a solid bat, AL familiarity (Orioles), vg defense and flexibility (plays all OF position as well as 2B/SS). These are the type of players that give you depth and the ability to matchup against the opposition. BTW, Wilkerson plays a nice 1B as well. Its time to fill needs, not wants.
Its obvious that you you can't appreciate the value that other teams place on their own players. Why would KC trade Dejesus? Just to help the Yankees out perhaps? Toby Hall is not an offensive stud, but he is a solid hitter who makes contact, uses all fields and plays better D than Posada. Wilkerson gives the Yankees a much needed #2 hitter who gets on base at a .350 clip and hits lots of XBH. He is a player who the Yankees "could" acquire with their limited trade assets.Speaking of Sheff (a player who I like a lot) , offense is not the Yankees problem, timely hitting is. The Yankees advanced further in 2003 without Sheff and Arod then they have in the past 2 seasons. If this team can't compete with Arod, Giambi, Jeter, Matsui as their primary threats in the lineup then we have big problems. The White Sox have a crappy offense comparitively speaking and they are rolling along into October. Same with the Astros and the Angels. You win with good defense, timely hitting, good bullpen and starting rotation. A RF like Hairston (also attainable with the Yankees limited trade assets) brings a solid bat, AL familiarity (Orioles), vg defense and flexibility (plays all OF position as well as 2B/SS). These are the type of players that give you depth and the ability to matchup against the opposition. BTW, Wilkerson plays a nice 1B as well. Its time to fill needs, not wants.
I'm just curious, what in the world is your obsession with Hairston. The guy is a mediocre major leaguer AT BEST. He doesn't even start for the Cubs yet you're going to bring him here for timely hits? He hit .260 with a .368 slugging percentage, I'm sorry regardless of how much you are enamored with him he is not good enough offensively to play a corner outfield spot for the Cubs much less the Yankees. If given the chance to play regularly Bubba Crosby could very well match those numbers as well as be far superior defensively and the Yankees are not starting Bubba Crosby much less trading Sheffield for a player of his caliber.
I'm just curious, what in the world is your obsession with Hairston. The guy is a mediocre major leaguer AT BEST. He doesn't even start for the Cubs yet you're going to bring him here for timely hits? He hit .260 with a .368 slugging percentage, I'm sorry regardless of how much you are enamored with him he is not good enough offensively to play a corner outfield spot for the Cubs much less the Yankees. If given the chance to play regularly Bubba Crosby could very well match those numbers as well as be far superior defensively and the Yankees are not starting Bubba Crosby much less trading Sheffield for a player of his caliber.
Hairston was not used properly in Chicago and one need only look at his production in Baltimore to see where his value is. OBP of .378, a K/BB ratio of nearly 1:1, an ability to steal 20-25 bases and excellent defense both as an infielder and in CF. He is only 29 and has shown an ability to be productive, versatile and a defensive plus.
He has a hard time staying healthy but it is more a function of bad luck than bad health.
SINCE77 2
10-16-05, 03:59 PM
I'm just curious, what in the world is your obsession with Hairston. The guy is a mediocre major leaguer AT BEST. He doesn't even start for the Cubs yet you're going to bring him here for timely hits? He hit .260 with a .368 slugging percentage, I'm sorry regardless of how much you are enamored with him he is not good enough offensively to play a corner outfield spot for the Cubs much less the Yankees. If given the chance to play regularly Bubba Crosby could very well match those numbers as well as be far superior defensively and the Yankees are not starting Bubba Crosby much less trading Sheffield for a player of his caliber.
Nothing to do with obsession, just recognition of a player who can be solid and a role player for this team. His defense is much better than Crosby's and he brings flexibility to the extent that Crosby doesn't. The Cubs are one of the few teams that have a need and the money to afford Sheff. Hairston would obviously be just one player that we would get in the trade. I guessing we could also get one or two ML ready relievers from them as well. No one is going to give us some young stud hitter or starting pitcher for Sheff. The best we can do is to get salary relief and midlevel prospects unless we pay the bulk of his salary. I got the same type of responses from people when I used to mention acquiring guys like Melvin Mora, Brian Roberts before they became solid contributing players as well. Hairston got less than 400 at bats in a new league and still put up respectable nubers. Given full time status he would give us a .350 obp/.280 BA, 10 homers, 35 doubles and vg defense anywhere we would deem to play him . I'll take it.
In 2005, despite being a part-time player and completely misused by the Cubs, Hairston still had 31 extra-base hits with an OBP of .336 and excellent defense in the outfield and infield.
Just for the record, despite having 100+ more ABs, Bernie Williams had 32 extra-base hits and an OBP of .321 with ugly defense at his only position.
NelsonMuntz
10-16-05, 04:47 PM
In 2005, despite being a part-time player and completely misused by the Cubs, Hairston still had 31 extra-base hits with an OBP of .336 and excellent defense in the outfield and infield.
Just for the record, despite having 100+ more ABs, Bernie Williams had 32 extra-base hits and an OBP of .321 with ugly defense at his only position.
Trading for Wilkerson is my top preference but I would be fine with Hairston starting for us in CF next year.
NelsonMuntz
10-16-05, 04:50 PM
I would do that, but why would the Nats?
They wouldn't. Guillen isn't going anywhere.
SINCE77 2
10-16-05, 06:20 PM
In 2005, despite being a part-time player and completely misused by the Cubs, Hairston still had 31 extra-base hits with an OBP of .336 and excellent defense in the outfield and infield.
Just for the record, despite having 100+ more ABs, Bernie Williams had 32 extra-base hits and an OBP of .321 with ugly defense at his only position.
A voice of reason. Thank you.
SINCE77 2
10-16-05, 06:26 PM
Trading for Wilkerson is my top preference but I would be fine with Hairston starting for us in CF next year.
I agree, but we can more than likely get both players for less than it would cost to get Hunter or Pierre.
Kulish29
10-16-05, 06:33 PM
One name. Grady Fuson. If he is available and Cashman wants to go elsewhere, sign Grady Fuson.
One name. Grady Fuson. If he is available and Cashman wants to go elsewhere, sign Grady Fuson.
Since Stick is most likely gone, maybe we can sign Fuson to be our new Stick.
ICEBERG18
10-16-05, 06:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2192785
Kulish29
10-16-05, 07:04 PM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/53614.htm
Only trade I like there is the one with the White Sox. It makes sense too. As he stated, the White Sox have the best CF prospects in baseball waiting in the wings, so Rowand should be expendable. They also need power.
If Sheffield doesnt pull any BS, this trade would make a lot of sense. It also keeps him out of the division, which I like.
Kulish29
10-16-05, 07:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2192785
Is everything on ESPN.com going to be pay only now? Good lord.
Kulish29
10-16-05, 07:12 PM
Since Stick is most likely gone, maybe we can sign Fuson to be our new Stick.
It would be nice. If there is a vacancy in the GM department, George would be an idiot not to ask the Padres for premission to speak to him about the GM job.
Is everything on ESPN.com going to be pay only now? Good lord.
Seriously, it's really annoying. Does anyone have access that can post the relevant portions of that article?
hardrain
10-17-05, 08:52 AM
Is everything on ESPN.com going to be pay only now? Good lord.
I hope so. That way less people will read them. ;)
El Moose
10-17-05, 09:17 AM
No way I'm gonna read this entire thread.
Realistically, there's not a whole lot we can do this offseason. The only obvious issue we can address is the bullpen by signing Ryan, which would be a good move. In theory, he would set up Rivera for a year, however, if Mo has another dominant year, not extending him will be a very tough sell. I'm not sure Ryan will be thrilled about setting up for more than a year, but I think money talks in baseball in the end.
However, if the assumption is that Mo really does have at least 2 good years left in him, signing Ryan would be a waste of money. An easier way to fix the bullpen would be to give Felix more work (Joe, this means you.).
There have been rumors of trading Sheffield for Vernon Wells and signing Brian Giles, which make absolutely no sense. If the Jays want more offense, they can just go ahead and sign Giles and keep Wells.
Not that much we can do in CF, either, as there is no market outside of Damon, who will demand to be overpaid. Perhaps Jacque Jones could play the position adequately, but other than that, let's just hope someone from the minors has a good ST and wins the job.
Resigning Matsui is a no-brainer.
Look into signing Ramon Hernandez and possibly trading Posada, though there might be 10/5 issues there.
There you have it. We're stuck with our rotation, for better or worse.
Lackluster FA market. Can't trade anyone except Wang/Cano/Chacon, which we won't.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2006 Yankees, who are, for the most part, your 2005 Yankees.
El Moose
10-17-05, 09:25 AM
Only trade I like there is the one with the White Sox. It makes sense too. As he stated, the White Sox have the best CF prospects in baseball waiting in the wings, so Rowand should be expendable. They also need power.
If Sheffield doesnt pull any BS, this trade would make a lot of sense. It also keeps him out of the division, which I like.
How does this make any sense? The White Sox hit more home runs than the Red Sox this year, so where do they need power? If they "need" power, they'll just keep Rowand and resign Konerko. Equivalently, they can try to sign Brian Giles, who will probably make 60% of what Sheffield makes per year and will probably get less than Konerko.
If they have all these CF prospects, they can just let Rowand walk after a year or two.
Just because you'd like a trade to happen doesn't mean it actually makes sense.
knickfan23
10-17-05, 09:40 AM
Only trade I like there is the one with the White Sox. It makes sense too. As he stated, the White Sox have the best CF prospects in baseball waiting in the wings, so Rowand should be expendable. They also need power.
If Sheffield doesnt pull any BS, this trade would make a lot of sense. It also keeps him out of the division, which I like.
Need power? The team thats in the World Series needs power? The team that may win it all suddenly needs power? Lets not be crazy here.
-----
BTW, is it just me, or am I looking at a 1996-2000 reflection of ourselves in the 2005 White Sox? That sure looked alot like us from the past watching those guys.
If the Yanks are going to the Series next year, as it stands, they have to go through Chicago and we have to find a way to crack the pitching that they have.
Little Big Sheff
10-17-05, 10:02 AM
If the Yanks are going to the Series next year, as it stands, they have to go through Chicago and we have to find a way to crack the pitching that they have.
It's not a given that Buehrle and Garland are going to replicate their 2005 seasons. Not that they have had outlandish numbers, but they did produce in the upper range of their abilities.
And Cleveland is going to be a tough opponent in their division.
knickfan23
10-17-05, 11:24 AM
It's not a given that Buehrle and Garland are going to replicate their 2005 seasons. Not that they have had outlandish numbers, but they did produce in the upper range of their abilities.
And Cleveland is going to be a tough opponent in their division.
Buherle has been the horse of the staff the last 3 years. The reason he gave up more runs previously was due to Yankees-style defense. He's pitched 230 or more IP 4 years running.
Garland had a great year, and even if he struggles a bit next year, they have the kid McCarthy ready to step in.
Garcia is what he was advertised to be. A strong #2-#3 starter. Essentially the White Sox version of David Wells when he was a Yank. He's a rock.
Then you have Contreras. As we have seen, there was a reason the Yanks wanted him a few years ago and now in a smaller, confortable environment, he has prospered big time. He's been great in the playoffs, the entire 2nd half and is my favorite to win MVP of the World Series this year.
Its not like this team is going to go away and win 85 games next year. And the Yanks pitching on the top end is shaky at best with Moose at 36 and Johnson at 42. Pavano, we dont know if he simply cashed in on his 04 season. Hopefully Sea Level and Mr. Wang continue to improve, but its not far fetched to say the Yanks will have trouble just making the playoffs next year.
Kulish29
10-17-05, 12:21 PM
How does this make any sense? The White Sox hit more home runs than the Red Sox this year, so where do they need power? If they "need" power, they'll just keep Rowand and resign Konerko. Equivalently, they can try to sign Brian Giles, who will probably make 60% of what Sheffield makes per year and will probably get less than Konerko.
There's a very good chance Konerko signs else where this offseason. That's one power bat gone. Also, Giles has said he'd rather stay on the west coast and is said to be working out an extension with the Padres. What makes you think he'll sign with Chicago?
If they have all these CF prospects, they can just let Rowand walk after a year or two.
They have two elite CF prospects. One is ready to play now. What you're saying is, they should let him rot in AAA, where he has nothing to prove anymore instead of playing him in the Majors?
Just because you'd like a trade to happen doesn't mean it actually makes sense.
Seems to me that I just made a lot of sense to the deal. I never said I would like it to happen just that I like the possibility of the deal and it makes sense. Sheffield is a power bat that would most likely take the place of Konerko when he leaves. Will it happen? Probably not. But what's the fun of talking hot stove baseball if you cant speculate?
ICEBERG18
10-19-05, 06:58 PM
The Yankees would be truly dangerous if they used their vast resources in a different way, trading expensive veterans and the majority of their salaries for premium young talent. Let's say the Yankees could send Sheffield to the Blue Jays for right-hander Brandon League, Posada to the Diamondbacks for first baseman Conor Jackson and right-hander Carl Pavano to the Tigers for center fielder Curtis Granderson.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5003860
Sheff for Brandon i can't find the K-zone League. I can't wait to make that deal. I mean, seriously. He does make some great points in the article though.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-19-05, 07:33 PM
Yeah Sheff to the Blue Jays for League is real smart...
jgibson24
10-19-05, 07:36 PM
The Yankees would be truly dangerous if they used their vast resources in a different way, trading expensive veterans and the majority of their salaries for premium young talent. Let's say the Yankees could send Sheffield to the Blue Jays for right-hander Brandon League, Posada to the Diamondbacks for first baseman Conor Jackson and right-hander Carl Pavano to the Tigers for center fielder Curtis Granderson.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5003860
Sheff for Brandon i can't find the K-zone League. I can't wait to make that deal. I mean, seriously. He does make some great points in the article though.
That could never happen unless George is willing to open the checkbook. Sheffield, Posada and Pavano wouldn't bring back any premium talent unless the Yankees send the cash over to cover the contracts. Without the cash those players have little to no trade value for young cheap talent.
Prickly Pete
10-19-05, 07:39 PM
That could never happen unless George is willing to open the checkbook.
So, the $200 million payroll hasn't convinced you of George's willingness to open the checkbook? Wow.
Sheffield, Posada and Pavano wouldn't bring back any premium talent unless the Yankees send the cash over to cover the contracts. Without the cash those players have little to no trade value for young cheap talent.
That's why the articles says, "The Yankees would be truly dangerous if they used their vast resources in a different way, trading expensive veterans and the majority of their salaries for premium young talent.
The Q Bomb
10-19-05, 07:41 PM
... Posada, IMO, should be shopped. If we propose to eat a good portion of the remaining salary, could we trade him to a big-market team in exchange for bullpen help? Would the Mets take him as part of a package for Mike Cameron? ...
That is an absolutely dispicable proposal. I don't know if I could watch a Yankee game if something like that ever happened - and I've been a Yankee fan for almost 40 years! Ugh!
jgibson24
10-19-05, 07:46 PM
So, the $200 million payroll hasn't convinced you of George's willingness to open the checkbook? Wow.
Nope, I'm not convinced that he'd be willing to send a big name - Posada for example and a boatload of cash to get a relativey unknown uber prospect.
Prickly Pete
10-19-05, 07:48 PM
Nope, I'm not convinced that he'd be willing to send a big name - Posada for example and a boatload of cash to get a relativey unknown uber prospect.
I'm not sure he would do that either. That's got absolutely nothing to do with an unwillingess to spend money.
jgibson24
10-19-05, 07:51 PM
I'm not sure he would do that either. That's got absolutely nothing to do with an unwillingess to spend money.
I guess my post wasn't clear, I don't think George has any problems opening his checkbook... for "names" that is. I just don't see it happening to expedite rebuilding with unknowns no matter how talented.
The Q Bomb
10-19-05, 07:52 PM
Just curious, since I don't follow the minor leagues much - do The Yankees have any decent outfield prospects in the minors? If so, who and what is their projected ready date?
Also, what is the deal with Pavano. Exactly what kind of season ending injury did he have? What kind of recovery is projected to have? Folks here are talking about him like he's done. I would think he would be expected to contribute - and contribute well - upon his return next year. I certainly hope he doesn't end up like Steve Karsay.
Steph19
10-19-05, 08:09 PM
Just curious, since I don't follow the minor leagues much - do The Yankees have any decent outfield prospects in the minors? If so, who and what is their projected ready date?
Melky Cabrera is the closest "good prospect" to ready and he's only 20.
He also probably has one of the lowest ceilings compared to the rest of the good OF prospects. We've got a bunch of guys in single A that could be great or could be busts: Tim Battle (potential 5-tool, high K rate guy), Brett Gardner (incredibly fast, good defense, slap hitter), Austin Jackson (another potential 5-tool with less power then some others but great speed), Jose Tabata (only 17, tore up rookie league ball, 5-tools), and of course CJ Henry... But he's only 19 and still at shortstop.
In other words, we're going to need at LEAST a stopgap until our next homegrown CFer is ready.
MassNYYfan
10-19-05, 08:12 PM
Wonder what Beane would want for Payton now that they've picked up his option. Too bad we can't wait a few weeks into the season when he's bitchin' about being the #4 OFer to make a deal. :P
The Yankees would be truly dangerous if they used their vast resources in a different way, trading expensive veterans and the majority of their salaries for premium young talent. Let's say the Yankees could send Sheffield to the Blue Jays for right-hander Brandon League, Posada to the Diamondbacks for first baseman Conor Jackson and right-hander Carl Pavano to the Tigers for center fielder Curtis Granderson.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5003860
Sheff for Brandon i can't find the K-zone League. I can't wait to make that deal. I mean, seriously. He does make some great points in the article though.
Sheff for Brandon League, no way.
Posada for Conor Jackson and Pavano for Curtis Granderson. Yes.
ICEBERG18
10-20-05, 10:24 AM
1.Get a center fielder: The Yankees would love to get the Twins' Gold Glove center fielder, Torii Hunter. The Twins, who will listen to offers for Hunter this winter, can have Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano and anyone in the bullpen outside of Mariano Rivera.
The Yankees will do virtually anything it takes to land Hunter, knowing that he not only will catch everything from Monument Park to Battery Park, but he will also become a much better hitter with protection in the lineup.
*More overrating of Hunter.*
Milton Bradley of the Dodgers has also been mentioned in the Yankees' inner circles. If they don't nab Bradley, they might take Angels center fielder Steve Finley and the $7 million on his contract. The Yankees have also talked about trading for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre.
Bernie Williams won't return, not even in a part-time role. The Yankees simply don't want him around, knowing that Torre would start playing him every day.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-10-19-majors_x.htm
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-20-05, 11:13 AM
1.Get a center fielder: The Yankees would love to get the Twins' Gold Glove center fielder, Torii Hunter. The Twins, who will listen to offers for Hunter this winter, can have Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano and anyone in the bullpen outside of Mariano Rivera.
The Yankees will do virtually anything it takes to land Hunter, knowing that he not only will catch everything from Monument Park to Battery Park, but he will also become a much better hitter with protection in the lineup.
*More overrating of Hunter.*
Milton Bradley of the Dodgers has also been mentioned in the Yankees' inner circles. If they don't nab Bradley, they might take Angels center fielder Steve Finley and the $7 million on his contract. The Yankees have also talked about trading for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre.
Bernie Williams won't return, not even in a part-time role. The Yankees simply don't want him around, knowing that Torre would start playing him every day.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-10-19-majors_x.htm
Interesting article. I wonder who in the Yankees organization is talking? A Tampa troll? I can't believe they would simultaneously want to get younger and at the same time trade Cano. Mental rookie lapses aside, he has a high ceiling and can play in NY.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-20-05, 11:15 AM
If Cano gets traded for Tori, I want Nomar at second...
MassNYYfan
10-20-05, 12:21 PM
If they don't nab Bradley, they might take Angels center fielder Steve Finley and the $7 million on his contract
What the......?
TalkYank
10-20-05, 01:23 PM
I say we really need to go after BJ Ryan big time since Gordon will probably leave. We also need a decent pitching coach, CF and mid relief pitchers...
Based on the Nightengale article, it looks like he is predicting a Yankee lineup as follows:
Jeter ss
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b/dh
Sheffield rf
Matsui lf
Hunter cf
Posada c
JT Snow/Lyle Overbay 1b/dh
Womack 2b
is that really an upgrade over?...
Jeter ss
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Sheffield rf
Matsui lf
Cano 2b
Bernie dh
Posada c
Crosby cf
NelsonMuntz
10-20-05, 01:50 PM
Based on the Nightengale article, it looks like he is predicting a Yankee lineup as follows:
Jeter ss
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b/dh
Sheffield rf
Matsui lf
Hunter cf
Posada c
JT Snow/Lyle Overbay 1b/dh
Womack 2b
is that really an upgrade over?...
Jeter ss
A-Rod 3b
Giambi 1b
Sheffield rf
Matsui lf
Cano 2b
Bernie dh
Posada c
Crosby cf
No it isn't. Regardless, Cano isn't going anywhere so it's a moot point.
No it isn't. Regardless, Cano isn't going anywhere so it's a moot point.
I have read conflicting reports that the Yanks are willing to deal him for Hunter. Granted it is possible that the author is an idiot, but it is still unsettling to hear.
27IsNext
10-20-05, 02:11 PM
1.Get a center fielder: The Yankees would love to get the Twins' Gold Glove center fielder, Torii Hunter. The Twins, who will listen to offers for Hunter this winter, can have Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano and anyone in the bullpen outside of Mariano Rivera.
The Yankees will do virtually anything it takes to land Hunter, knowing that he not only will catch everything from Monument Park to Battery Park, but he will also become a much better hitter with protection in the lineup.
*More overrating of Hunter.*
Milton Bradley of the Dodgers has also been mentioned in the Yankees' inner circles. If they don't nab Bradley, they might take Angels center fielder Steve Finley and the $7 million on his contract. The Yankees have also talked about trading for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre.
Bernie Williams won't return, not even in a part-time role. The Yankees simply don't want him around, knowing that Torre would start playing him every day.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-10-19-majors_x.htm
Wow. The Yankees aparantly want to make all of the WRONG moves...
NelsonMuntz
10-20-05, 02:16 PM
I have read conflicting reports that the Yanks are willing to deal him for Hunter. Granted it is possible that the author is an idiot, but it is still unsettling to hear.
Unless George is absolutely mandating that we get Hunter at all costs, then this is just an author speculating. Trading Cano for Hunter makes no sense for the Yankees.
SINCE77 2
10-20-05, 02:17 PM
1.Get a center fielder: The Yankees would love to get the Twins' Gold Glove center fielder, Torii Hunter. The Twins, who will listen to offers for Hunter this winter, can have Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano and anyone in the bullpen outside of Mariano Rivera.
The Yankees will do virtually anything it takes to land Hunter, knowing that he not only will catch everything from Monument Park to Battery Park, but he will also become a much better hitter with protection in the lineup.
*More overrating of Hunter.*
Milton Bradley of the Dodgers has also been mentioned in the Yankees' inner circles. If they don't nab Bradley, they might take Angels center fielder Steve Finley and the $7 million on his contract. The Yankees have also talked about trading for Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre.
Bernie Williams won't return, not even in a part-time role. The Yankees simply don't want him around, knowing that Torre would start playing him every day.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-10-19-majors_x.htm
Overbay is a nice, but expensive pickup. Bradley would cost big as well.
SINCE77 2
10-20-05, 02:19 PM
Unless George is absolutely mandating that we get Hunter at all costs, then this is just an author speculating. Trading Cano for Hunter makes no sense for the Yankees.
I agree.
Granted it is possible that the author is an idiot, but it is still unsettling to hear.
Hal Bodley, another USA Today writer, is a known Steinbrenner sycophant. He's always writing gratuitously flattering articles about GS, and going out of his way to criticize Torre. I wouldn't be surprized if some of the stuff in this article is based on BS from the Tampa Mafia (Bodley likes to brag about his access to George, so McPaper's 'sources' could spring from this.) EDIT: clarity
For an example of Bodley's work, check this out from May 5, 2005: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/columnist/bodley/2005-05-05-bodley-yankees_x.htm
Disagrees with Torre
One day in March, I sat with The Boss in his Legends Field office in Tampa and discussed a myriad of subjects, including horse racing.
...He paused for what seemed a long moment. The Yankees weren't playing well in exhibition games, and it irked the Boss.
In fact, he and Torre differ on the importance of winning Grapefruit League exhibitions. Torre is more concerned about getting players ready for the season.
"I like to win even in exhibition games," Steinbrenner said, frowning. "I know how (Torre) feels about it, so we don't argue about it."
The Boss brought the subject up again Thursday.
"Joe Torre doesn't attach much importance to spring training, but now this is in his lap, his lap and (general manager) Brian Cashman's lap. They've got to perform, and the coaches have to perform."
Steinbrenner also kept saying how concerned he is about the pitching.
....
Torre thought the rotation would be the best in his 10 years in pinstripes.
surge511
10-21-05, 06:58 AM
I found this article. It gives some big clues as to what the Yanks are up to. As much as I would hate to see Cano leave, I think this plan overall has the Yankees better than last year.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-10-19-majors_x.htm
TheBamTino24
10-21-05, 07:05 AM
Thanks for the link. That article basically sums up common knowledge about which areas the Yankees are identifying for improvement for 2006. Personally, the only player I'd consider trading Robinson Cano for, and this may surprise some, would be Carlos Beltran of the Mets.
I would not tinker much with the roster. The starting rotation has NY and playoff experience and is deep and flexibile. I would keep Al Leiter as the lefty specialist and Aaron Small as the long man to start. We must add 2 or 3 capable relievers like Ryan to help Mariano Rivera. I'd like to see Lyle Overbay on the right side in Pinstripes next to Cano because he's young, but resigning Tino Martinez or John Olerud seems 6 of one vs. a half dozen of another. I would simply bring back Martinez.
seamusk
10-21-05, 07:07 AM
trading cano for Hunter would not be smart. We need a center fielder but we also need a 2b and Cano is going to be one of the best..
yankeebot
10-21-05, 07:08 AM
Nice synopsis even if nothing really new. I love this line:
The Braves can make 14 postseason appearances, win only one Series and call their run a dynasty. The Yankees can make the playoffs 11 years in a row, capture six pennants, win four World Series in five years and be called Bronx Bums.Truer words were never written.
utopiapkwy
10-21-05, 07:09 AM
Overall everything made sense, we need bullpen help, Sheff is getting old, Bernie is old. I didnt like that we want to DH Giambi everyday as it has been stated over and over on the forum that he bats 100 points lower as a DH vs playing first. Also, if we trade Cano for Hunter it makes no mention of who will play second. Good article though, we'll see how acurrate it winds up being.
rightfielder21
10-21-05, 07:13 AM
Trading Cano for Hunter is a bad idea... He is a 22 year old 2B being traded for a 30 year old CF with injury problems...
This is what has been geting the Yankees into problems the last few years... You don't trade away great youth, for an older fix...
Yankees1962
10-21-05, 07:16 AM
He's made some good points, but he's very wrong on some other points such as Mazz as bench coach.
Honestly, I thought the article didn't make sense at all. It starts out saying that the team needs to get younger and cheaper, yet they talk about getting Kevin Millwood and AJ Pierzynski, and getting rid of Cano. I just think the article is ALL speculation and is not any insider info. For example, we already know that the Manny-Beltran deal on the side bar was a rumor during the season, not now. Manny refused a trade to the Mets in July. Its just too much speculation and not enough possible answers.
MTYankee23
10-21-05, 07:19 AM
Is there really much of a difference between Torii Hunter and Milton Bradley outside of what it will cost to acquire them?
Yankees1962
10-21-05, 07:19 AM
Trading Cano for Hunter is a bad idea... He is a 22 year old 2B being traded for a 30 year old CF with injury problems...
This is what has been geting the Yankees into problems the last few years... You don't trade away great youth, for an older fix...
I totally agree. With their lineup the Yankees just need a stopgap that can catch the ball and could hit just a little. They need to be patient in looking for the long-term solution for that position.
MTYankee23
10-21-05, 07:22 AM
I totally agree. With their lineup the Yankees just need a stopgap that can catch the ball and could hit just a little. They need to be patient in looking for the long-term solution for that position.
And if a viable long term solution doesn't present itself, they should find a solid short term solution.
I don't see Cano for Hunter. Cano has the same promise that Soriano had overall ( less power, but better defensively, he hit well in the playoffs and seems more likely to learn plate discipline )
Soriano was deemed untouchable, but was traded for Arod
I wouldn't trade Cano except for a star type player
Hunter is no star
We need to get younger. That's obvious. Yet, except for the mention that Bernie should not be back, every other move was for an older player, except maybe for Pierre and Bradley, who are under 30.
What gives. :(
yankeegeek
10-21-05, 07:29 AM
Is there really much of a difference between Torii Hunter and Milton Bradley outside of what it will cost to acquire them?
There is one difference.....Bradley is a head case.
Yankees1962
10-21-05, 07:29 AM
And if a viable long term solution doesn't present itself, they should find a solid short term solution.
Right which they should be able to do without sacrificing a good young player like Cano who has demonstrated the ability to play on the major league level.
BeantownYankee
10-21-05, 07:36 AM
Thanks for the link. That article basically sums up common knowledge about which areas the Yankees are identifying for improvement for 2006. Personally, the only player I'd consider trading Robinson Cano for, and this may surprise some, would be Carlos Beltran of the Mets.
I would not tinker much with the roster. The starting rotation has NY and playoff experience and is deep and flexibile. I would keep Al Leiter as the lefty specialist and Aaron Small as the long man to start. We must add 2 or 3 capable relievers like Ryan to help Mariano Rivera. I'd like to see Lyle Overbay on the right side in Pinstripes next to Cano because he's young, but resigning Tino Martinez or John Olerud seems 6 of one vs. a half dozen of another. I would simply bring back Martinez.
That would be sad. Having to trade a potential top player to our cross town rivals for a player we could have signed last season and elected not to.
rightfielder21
10-21-05, 07:57 AM
I totally agree. With their lineup the Yankees just need a stopgap that can catch the ball and could hit just a little. They need to be patient in looking for the long-term solution for that position.
And it will come from within...
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 08:04 AM
I generally agree with what he saying. I like the idea of a JT Snow type at first.
But how excatly are we going to get a young Gary Sheffield, they aren't exactly growing on trees.
CaptainThurman
10-21-05, 08:07 AM
Cano for Hunter is absurd. It's a Tampa faction move.
The Twins need to move Hunter's salary, and will take a package of Cabrera, Duncan and Henn, or something like that. Cano should be off the table this winter.
ring403
10-21-05, 08:13 AM
Is there really much of a difference between Torii Hunter and Milton Bradley outside of what it will cost to acquire them?
If the Yankees are willing to take a gamble that Joe Torre will be able to control, if not eliminate, his occasional anger management issues, Bradley would be a huge upgrade in CF. Bradley will likey be very undervalued in this year's FA market.
parkerstrong
10-21-05, 08:14 AM
Cano for Hunter is insane....this is why our payroll is so high. Trade a minimum salary player for someone who makes 10 million a year, even when the minimum salary player is a better hitter. It doesnt make any sense to trade Cano for Hunter.
yanksrule69
10-21-05, 08:19 AM
I really hope these are true:
Bernie Williams won't return, not even in a part-time role. The Yankees simply don't want him around, knowing that Torre would start playing him every day.
Yankees scouts have told Steinbrenner that free agent Johnny Damon simply is no longer a good defensive center fielder.
The Yankees want to bring in Orioles free agent B.J. Ryan...
Irascible Yankee Fan
10-21-05, 08:20 AM
This article scared the crap out of me...
Milton Bradley?- Just what the Yanks need...clubhouse cancer
Steve Finley?- 7 million for a washed up old man. He had a horrible season.
Cano for Hunter?- I would rather keep Cano and play Bubba in center
JT Snow?- 37 years old and 4 home runs in 2005. Maybe a backup if Tino leaves.
BJ Ryan!-Good move
Pierzynski- I can live with him, but he has a reputation for being a clubhouse jerk.
I don't know about this article. Old guys, and clubhouse cancer guys are not what I would like to see. I would like to see some younger players. The biggest mistake in all of this is trading Cano. I would also not mind seeing Pavano sent away, but I don't think anyone will want him.
All just my opinion.
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 08:20 AM
If the Yankees are willing to take a gamble that Joe Torre will be able to control, if not eliminate, his occasional anger management issues, Bradley would be a huge upgrade in CF. Bradley will likey be very undervalued in this year's FA market.
Could we get Bradley and some relief pitching for Sheffield? maybe a prospect? maybe Choi or Brazobhan? maybe they are fed up with Edwin Jackson? this could be a fit.
If we trade Sheff I think we can do so and effectively plug holes.
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 08:22 AM
Bradley will likey be very undervalued in this year's FA market.
wait. is he FA? are you sure about that? cause if he is then we def shouldn't trade Cano.
BRNXBMRS
10-21-05, 08:23 AM
Trading Cano for anything else besides a budding star is ridiculus, isnt every team looking for Sheffield type player. Dont waste the $$$ on Damon is a smart move, Bradley is a idiot.
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 08:23 AM
I really hope these are true:
The Yankees want to bring in Orioles free agent B.J. Ryan...
[/list]
I really like that he said BJ and TWO pitchers.
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 08:24 AM
Dont waste the $$$ on Damon is a smart move, Bradley is a idiot.
You might want to check your grammar.
whalers
10-21-05, 08:24 AM
Cano for Hunter is absurd. It's a Tampa faction move.
The Twins need to move Hunter's salary, and will take a package of Cabrera, Duncan and Henn, or something like that. Cano should be off the table this winter.
Well if Cashman is still around I dont see the Yankees trading away Cano. I dont have a link but I am pretty sure that he made statements last year that he was not looking to trade our young talent.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-21-05, 08:25 AM
The article is plain flat out wrong. I have no idea where this guy is getting his information.
TheBamTino24
10-21-05, 08:27 AM
The Sheffield question is interesting. Don't forget he is entering the final year of his contract and I would imagine he could become a headache if he does not have anything secure for 2007. FWIW, Matt Mantei, Mike Myers and Mike Timlin are FAs. Bellhorn, Embree...lol. Bob Howry is one also and he had a good year for Cleveland I believe.
rightfielder21
10-21-05, 08:31 AM
The Twins need to move Hunter's salary, and will take a package of Cabrera, Duncan and Henn, or something like that. Cano should be off the table this winter.
That is too much as well for a salary dump...
Born in the Bronx
10-21-05, 08:32 AM
Cano for Hunter is absurd. It's a Tampa faction move.
The Twins need to move Hunter's salary, and will take a package of Cabrera, Duncan and Henn, or something like that. Cano should be off the table this winter.
In the long run, giving up Cabrera, Duncan, & Henn might be much worse for the Yankees than giving up just Cano. I understand I might be dead wrong on this, but I'm not completely sold on Cano yet.
nj-monarch
10-21-05, 08:33 AM
Trading Cano in a deal for Hunter is exactly the opposite direction the team needs to go. Trading younger for older and cheaper for more expensive is a mistake for a team that's already too old and too expensive.
I've seen it referenced in the press on more than occassion so someone out there is floating it. It may even be from Minnesota sources, who knows?
I'll be very disappointed if someone other than Cano is playing 2nd next year for the Yanks.
Captain Yankee
10-21-05, 08:35 AM
I think we could move Pavano if we eat some of his salary. Perhaps we could move him back to an NL team. I can think of a few teams who could be in the market for a Pavano type in the NL. Perhaps we could move him to Shea along with Cano and take back Glavine's contract and Beltran? I'm not saying that's a good move---but it is a potential deal we could make. I think Pavano would have success in a large NL style ballpark. Places that come to mind are Seattle (for Joel Pineiro?), Oakland (would they still move Kotsay?), back to Florida (Juan Pierre?), Philadelphia (in a package for Jim Thome?), LA (Milton Bradley?), San Francisco (Randy Winn?), San Diego (Dave Roberts/bullpen help)? There are possiblities out there. I'm sure once the GM situation is resolved we can start making moves.
TheBamTino24
10-21-05, 08:36 AM
I'd start grooming Duncan at 1B. I'm very interested to see if the Yankees hold onto Cano, Henn, Cabrera and even Hughes. There's no reason not to right now. You can plug CF without mortgaging the young talent if you believe Melky Cabrera is the answer.
I wouldn't trade Pavano. I think he could be a very good pitcher. Can we please give at least one of these pitchers a 2nd year after getting used to NYY?
If the Yankees are willing to take a gamble that Joe Torre will be able to control, if not eliminate, his occasional anger management issues, Bradley would be a huge upgrade in CF. Bradley will likey be very undervalued in this year's FA market.
I'd love to se that move also- definitely the most cost effective
Torre's forte is supposed to be player /clubhouse management - let him earn that 7M next year
yankeebot
10-21-05, 08:39 AM
If the Yankees are willing to take a gamble that Joe Torre will be able to control, if not eliminate, his occasional anger management issues, Bradley would be a huge upgrade in CF. Bradley will likey be very undervalued in this year's FA market.I have been onboard with Bradley all year. I truly believe a lot of his problems have been due to immaturity and that Joe would be the perfect manager for him. Given his history, he will not command a huge salary or a long-term deal which makes him a great short-term solution if nothing else.
drjeckyl
10-21-05, 08:39 AM
wait. is he FA? are you sure about that? cause if he is then we def shouldn't trade Cano.
no. He's arbitration eligible, not FA. He's been in the ML since 2000. After the 06 season, he'd be eligible for FA.
Captain Yankee
10-21-05, 08:41 AM
I have been onboard with Bradley all year. I truly believe a lot of his problems have been due to immaturity and that Joe would be the perfect manager for him. Given his history, he will not command a huge salary or a long-term deal which makes him a great short-term solution if nothing else.
Bradley is giving me bad flashbacks of the near disastrous Albert Belle signing. Bradley would be a DISASTER in the NYC spotlight.
nydeano
10-21-05, 08:42 AM
Bradley can MASH. He is a bit of a risk though. I was at a Reds/Dodgers game and the Cincy fans were all over him. He was giving it right back to them, nothing obscene, just a little fun. (Although the Cincy fans got rude toward the end) Griffy came up and popped up or struck out, and Bradley gave the choke sign. He was due up in the top half, and fans got on him as he was leving the firld. Well, in his at bat, he CRUSHED one in to LF bleachers-hell of a shot. He came back out, all smiles. The dude has seemed to have calmed down a bit, but still has some issues. Hell of a bat though....
If we:
- Trade Cano for Hunter, and sign someone like Garciaparra to play 2nd (forming the fantasy "Holy Trinity" infield)
- Have Sheff DH and sign a FA right fielder with speed and a good arm (bat optional).
We'd be a much improved defensively.. and possibly improved offensively as well.
yanksphan
10-21-05, 08:47 AM
I think a lot of you have Bradley pinned wrong. He's had some blow-ups on the field, but so has David Ortiz (threw a bag of bats) and Gary Sheffield (too many to list).
That kind of stuff of course makes the news.
I've had the PLEASURE of watching him out here for the Dodgers, and off the field he is a very articulate and down to earth guy. I think his intensity on the field say a lot about his desire to win and like a few folks have said, he has the tools to make it, he just needs to harness that energy and focus on the task at hand. That's why we have Joe Torre.
I'm on board the Bradley train for sure.
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 08:47 AM
Bradley is giving me bad flashbacks of the near disastrous Albert Belle signing. Bradley would be a DISASTER in the NYC spotlight.
Belle would have been the highest paid player in baseball at that point. Big difference.
yanksphan
10-21-05, 08:48 AM
If we:
- Trade Cano for Hunter, and sign someone like Garciaparra to play 2nd (forming the fantasy "Holy Trinity" infield)
- Have Sheff DH and sign a FA right fielder with speed and a good arm (bat optional).
We'd be a much improved defensively.. and possibly improved offensively as well.
So who plays 2nd after the first 3 weeks of the season? :P
nydeano
10-21-05, 08:53 AM
If we:
- Trade Cano for Hunter, and sign someone like Garciaparra to play 2nd (forming the fantasy "Holy Trinity" infield)
- Have Sheff DH and sign a FA right fielder with speed and a good arm (bat optional).
We'd be a much improved defensively.. and possibly improved offensively as well.
Ahhh Nomar is known more for his bat than his rangeless glove. You might as well pencil in a good utility IF, b/c he most likely will only plat 100 games due to injury.
BRNXBMRS
10-21-05, 08:58 AM
I'd start grooming Duncan at 1B.
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Trenton Thunder (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/clubs/index.jsp?cid=t567)
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He has a lot of K's but I think this is a good idea.
Captain Yankee
10-21-05, 09:17 AM
Ahhh Nomar is known more for his bat than his rangeless glove. You might as well pencil in a good utility IF, b/c he most likely will only plat 100 games due to injury.
Nomar is an injury waiting to happen at this point in his career.
indianyanksfan
10-21-05, 09:28 AM
how old is bradley and what are his career numbers?
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 09:29 AM
Nomar is an injury waiting to happen at this point in his career.
Maybe he would come way cheap then. He could DH for us at the very least...Nah I don't want him.
bobbymagee
10-21-05, 09:34 AM
I totally agree. With their lineup the Yankees just need a stopgap that can catch the ball and could hit just a little. They need to be patient in looking for the long-term solution for that position.
Didn't this sound like Bubba. Although , he majorly f'd up versus the Los Angeles, Anaheim, Orange County, Disney Land, Southern California, San Luis Abisbo, Angels.
NewEraYanks2527
10-21-05, 09:34 AM
Please please please don't trade Cano for Hunter or anyone not named Carlos Beltran, even then I might not do it. Bradley should be able to come cheaper from the Dodgers than Hunter from the Twins. I wouldnt mind Bradley if he can be shaped up.
DontHateOnNumber2
10-21-05, 09:40 AM
trading cano for Hunter would not be smart. We need a center fielder but we also need a 2b and Cano is going to be one of the best..
Cano may shape out to be one of the best but I'm more worried about Hunter. He pretty much tore his ankle and I haven't heard any word on how that's affected his mobility. A lot of this seems like speculation of course, especially when the writer suggested A.J. Pierzynski going to play C/DH for the Yanks.
DontHateOnNumber2
10-21-05, 09:41 AM
Nomar is an injury waiting to happen at this point in his career.
Yes, but if he could get his swing back whether it be for contact or power is it possible that he'd become a full-time DH for another club?
MTYankee23
10-21-05, 09:47 AM
If the Yankees are willing to take a gamble that Joe Torre will be able to control, if not eliminate, his occasional anger management issues, Bradley would be a huge upgrade in CF. Bradley will likey be very undervalued in this year's FA market.
This is what I was getting at. On a team that has people like Jeter, Sheffield, Posada, ARod, Rivera. There isn't a leadership void on this team. There was in Cleveland, Los Angeles. Torii Hunter wasn't a saint in the clubhouse either. A lot of times these things sprout from being too competitive.
Its fun to see the people on the board that support Sheffield, but wouldn't touch Bradley with a 10 ft. pole.
silverdsl
10-21-05, 09:47 AM
I would be strongly against the Yankees getting Milton Bradley. I think his issues are much deeper than immaturity and throwing him into a clubhouse where the media focus and pressure from all sides is intense would not be a good mix. And just so that folks don't think his issues are just related to on-the-field outbursts, he (and his wife) was investigated three times this summer for possible domestic abuse. I usually don't care what a player is like as a person as long as they contribute towards helping the team play but this is a rare exception where I would not feel good about the Yankees getting him.
-Deborah
jimmyclark
10-21-05, 09:49 AM
The Yankees ought to be able to get Hunter for something cheaper than Cano. Hunter is making a lot of money. Twins owner Carl Pohlad is worth $2 billion and he didn't get that way by giving a lot of it to players.
MTYankee23
10-21-05, 09:52 AM
how old is bradley and what are his career numbers?
28, his career OPB/SLG/AVG is 350 .426 .269
Kulish29
10-21-05, 09:54 AM
If the Yankees trade Cano for Hunter, I will be VERY pissed. I'd take Bradley, temperment and all, over Hunter because he'd likely cost less. I dont know why none of the papers havent named Brad Wilkerson as a possible candidate for a trade.
I wouldnt mind them trading for Overbay, but he'd likely cost too much.
nydeano
10-21-05, 09:58 AM
The Yankees ought to be able to get Hunter for something cheaper than Cano. Hunter is making a lot of money. Twins owner Carl Pohlad is worth $2 billion and he didn't get that way by giving a lot of it to players.
You're right, they SHOULD be able to get Hunter for less, but it's not going to happen. Hunter is the face of that franchise right now. They have some good young talent, but if they are going to give up a popular vet like Hunter, they want a truck backed up with talent dumped out.
The owner and his worth does not even come into play. See every small mkt team owner and $$ they get from te luxury tax.
MTYankee23
10-21-05, 10:12 AM
If the Yankees trade Cano for Hunter, I will be VERY pissed. I'd take Bradley, temperment and all, over Hunter because he'd likely cost less. I dont know why none of the papers havent named Brad Wilkerson as a possible candidate for a trade.
I wouldnt mind them trading for Overbay, but he'd likely cost too much.
Wilkerson is an obvious choice, but why would the Nationals want to give him up? I can see why the Twins/Dodgers would be willing to trade Hunter/Bradley.
surge511
10-21-05, 10:21 AM
I love the idea of getting Overbay. I would probably tade Duncan and Henn for him. Overbay is 24 or something, plays good Defense, and is a proven hitter in the bigs. Duncan has the potential to be much better, but he has never played 1B, and his hitting is still only coming into form. If the Brewers are not asking for something ridiculous, I would definitely try and get him.
Jete&Tino42
10-21-05, 10:24 AM
-As much as I would like to have Hunter, no way I want Cano to leave for him.
-The article says that they'd like to bring Gordon back, but I don't see it happening. He seemed very interested in closing and when speaking about his time with the Yanks everything was said in the past tense.
-Interesting that they point blank said Bernie is not coming back.
-I do not want anything to do with Bradley. I don't know that much about him on the field, but I've heard plenty about his troubles off the field and thats not what the team needs.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 10:33 AM
Wilkerson is an obvious choice, but why would the Nationals want to give him up? I can see why the Twins/Dodgers would be willing to trade Hunter/Bradley.
The Nats have a a bunch of OFers and nowhere to play them. Wilkerson also plays 1st base but is blocked by Nick Johnson (although he is a piece of glass).
I've mentioned this before and got flamed for it but, I still wouldnt mind trading Chacon to the Nats for Wilkerson and possibly another player. Chacon is the Yankees best trading chip that is not a prospect and is not named Cano or Wang.
indianyanksfan
10-21-05, 10:37 AM
The Nats have a a bunch of OFers and nowhere to play them. Wilkerson also plays 1st base but is blocked by Nick Johnson (although he is a piece of glass).
I've mentioned this before and got flamed for it but, I still wouldnt mind trading Chacon to the Nats for Wilkerson and possibly another player. Chacon is the Yankees best trading chip that is not a prospect and is not named Cano or Wang.
if wilk is an outsider in terms of spots why would we even have to give up that much value, chacon, to get him?
sorry i'm just realy confused.
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 10:39 AM
Wilkerson is an obvious choice, but why would the Nationals want to give him up?
They have an excess of outfielders (Guillen, Church, Byrd, Sledge, Wilkerson and possibly Wilson if he is re-signed) and they are looking to improve a very anemic offense and shore up their pitching. Wilkerson had a down year but played most of the season with a wrist injury, but it doesn't take much to get in Frank Robinson's doghouse. Word out of DC is that the Nats are willing to listen to offers for pretty much anyone but Guillen. The problem is that they are basically paralyzed as an organization right now until the team is sold.
I don't understand why the Yanks would even consider trading Cano. For almost anyone, in fact. They have a very young 2B who by almost any account is going to hit in the big leagues. He uses the whole field, has very good pop for a middle infielder, and has performed some of his best work in the spotlight and clutch. He is lackadaisical in the field at times, but the talent is still somewhat raw. No way I deal him.
If you dealt him to the Twins for Hunter, add Proctor and Henn with Cano for Hunter, Liriano, and Rincon. That way they get rid of two contracts, and the Yanks end up with their CF and a premium pitching prospect. Twins won't do it, just as the Yanks shouldn't do Cano/Hunter.
indianyanksfan
10-21-05, 10:41 AM
I don't understand why the Yanks would even consider trading Cano. For almost anyone, in fact. They have a very young 2B who by almost any account is going to hit in the big leagues. He uses the whole field, has very good pop for a middle infielder, and has performed some of his best work in the spotlight and clutch. He is lackadaisical in the field at times, but the talent is still somewhat raw. No way I deal him.
If you dealt him to the Twins for Hunter, add Proctor and Henn with Cano for Hunter, Liriano, and Rincon. That way they get rid of two contracts, and the Yanks end up with their CF and a premium pitching prospect. Twins won't do it, just as the Yanks shouldn't do Cano/Hunter.
since torre seems to have a bit more say in terms of coaching staff, wouldnt he be able to be a block in trading cano?
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 10:43 AM
I've mentioned this before and got flamed for it but, I still wouldnt mind trading Chacon to the Nats for Wilkerson and possibly another player. Chacon is the Yankees best trading chip that is not a prospect and is not named Cano or Wang.
I think the Nats would seriously consider that trade. Chacon would be extremely tough pitching in RFK. But I really do not want to trade Chacon. He was our best pitcher down the stretch and with the propensity of injury for the rest of our rotation, I really think we're going to need him next season.
rothman7
10-21-05, 10:45 AM
Overbay is 28, who will be 29 in January.
Bradley is an average fielding centerfielder with above average range. Not exactly the kind of guy who saves a team lots of runs. Check out his career centerfield stats (from baseballreference.com)
Pos G PO A E DP FP lgFP RFg lgRFg RF9 lgRF9 GS Inn
+--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----CF* 453 1110 35 16 7 .986 .988 2.53 2.32 2.70 2.65 434 3814.1
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 10:46 AM
if wilk is an outsider in terms of spots why would we even have to give up that much value, chacon, to get him?
sorry i'm just realy confused.
Well that's the thing -- nobody really knows what the Nats are asking because they're not really talking to anyone right now with the impending sale of the franchise. In any event, Wilkerson should be cheaper to acquire than Hunter or Pierre.
I think the Nats would seriously consider that trade. Chacon would be extremely tough pitching in RFK. But I really do not want to trade Chacon. He was our best pitcher down the stretch and with the propensity of injury for the rest of our rotation, I really think we're going to need him next season.
I agree. I believe Chacon is a legit middle of the rotation horse. I wouldn't deal him for Wilkerson, who is a good player but isn't great at anything. If you are going to add a strikeout machine to the lineup, might as well get someone who can really field.
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 10:54 AM
I agree. I believe Chacon is a legit middle of the rotation horse. I wouldn't deal him for Wilkerson, who is a good player but isn't great at anything. If you are going to add a strikeout machine to the lineup, might as well get someone who can really field.
Well let's not get carried away. Wilkerson is a fine player and a very good fielder. I just think we're going to need Chacon in the rotation next year. I'd be more willing to deal a prospect for Wilkerson.
stephsamps
10-21-05, 10:56 AM
The guy who wrote this should be posting on this forum and not writing baseball articles. I think he has about as much knowledge of the Yankees plans as you or I. Trading Cano for Hunter would be ridiculous.
Well let's not get carried away. Wilkerson is a fine player and a very good fielder. I just think we're going to need Chacon in the rotation next year. I'd be more willing to deal a prospect for Wilkerson.
I agree that he's a good player. My point was that he is a strange hitter. He goes into major funks where he can't buy a hit, and then gets streaky for a bit. He is not consistent, and strikes out a ton. He's a good player, but I don't believe his offense quite fits this team's needs. They don't need another decent OBA guy who can be handled by good pitching. If he would cost a Chacon type of talent, I wouldn't do it.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 11:01 AM
if wilk is an outsider in terms of spots why would we even have to give up that much value, chacon, to get him?
sorry i'm just realy confused.
I think the Nats would seriously consider that trade.
Chacon would be extremely tough pitching in RFK. But I really do not want to trade Chacon. He was our best pitcher down the stretch and with the propensity of injury for the rest of our rotation, I really think we're going to need him next season.
Although I like Duncan and would hate trading him, I wouldnt mind seeing a trade like this:
The Yankees trade Eric Duncan, Shawn Chacon and possibly a filler player to Washington for Brad Wilkerson, Brian Schneider and Jamey Carroll.
Wilkerson would solve the CF problem. Schneider is an excellent defensive catcher who can hit and would spell Posada at catcher whenever needed and Carroll is a nice utility guy who can play 2nd and 3rd and is also a pesky batter who runs well.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 11:04 AM
Wilkerson is an obvious choice, but why would the Nationals want to give him up? I can see why the Twins/Dodgers would be willing to trade Hunter/Bradley.
Because if they plan to keep Preston Wilson, there's nowhere for him to play.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 11:08 AM
Although I like Duncan and would hate trading him, I wouldnt mind seeing a trade like this:
The Yankees trade Eric Duncan, Shawn Chacon and possibly a filler player to Washington for Brad Wilkerson, Brian Schneider and Jamey Carroll.
Wilkerson would solve the CF problem. Schneider is an excellent defensive catcher who can hit and would spell Posada at catcher whenever needed and Carroll is a nice utility guy who can play 2nd and 3rd and is also a pesky batter who runs well.
Are you insane? We give up our best starting pitcher, and our best hitting prospect for a guy they aren't going to play anyway, a backup catcher, and a utility infielder? Absolutely not.
If I'm bringing in Schneider, I'm trading Posada. If we eat part of his salary, they'd probably do it. Posada and a prospect or Aaron Small or something for Wilkerson and Schneider. Improves their horrendous offense, improves our defense, and makes us younger.
Crusadecat
10-21-05, 11:14 AM
It is like the Author came here and basically wrote what people are talking about
CTyankeefan
10-21-05, 11:24 AM
Is there really much of a difference between Torii Hunter and Milton Bradley outside of what it will cost to acquire them?
Yes. This is the problem when u look at straight stats. Fantasy baseball-wise, they are equal. In reality, Hunter is the superior player, or has been.
Hunter is a much better fit, better guy and more power. Hunter will also blend in.
Don't go cheap here. The yankees always go cheap when they can, which I know it makes no sense on the surface. Yanks will pay for the big ticket, but when it comes down to other players it is always trying to find someone less expensive he can do the job almost the same.
That is how we get Jared Wright over Lieber.
Hunter is a superior player.
All other things being equal Bradley is the best fit for the Yanks in centerfield among those mentioned. He's a very good centerfielder, a good hitter who's patient and, perhaps most important, is a switch hitter. Having those is especially important in the American League is important because it thwarts,to some degree, the late inning matchup guys in the opponent's bullpen.
That said there are two things that make a potential trade for Bradley scary. The first, his disposition has been widley discussed here so I will not elaborate. The second is the potential cost to get him. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Bradley might be undervalued in the free agent market because of his off the field troubles. Those troubles may keep the Dodgers from getting value in a trade, remember that Dodgers GM Paul DiPodesto was the one who insisted that Eric Duncan be included in the original three way Randy Johnson-Javier Vazquez-Shaun Green trade. He ended up getting Dioner Navarro from the D-Backs and may still covet Duncan. Do we make a deal for Bradley if it must include Duncan?? I vote no although Bradley's youth and all around ability make it tempting.
ICEBERG18
10-21-05, 11:31 AM
Hunter is a superior player.
To M.B.? Personalities aside, i would take M.B. over Hunter everyday of the week.
CyYoung4Vazquez
10-21-05, 11:37 AM
The Daily News and the Post would love it if the yanks signed Milton Bradley
El Moose
10-21-05, 11:41 AM
I think people are overrating Chacon a bit here. He had a nice stretch of 10 or 15 starts and people are already calling him our best pitcher (over Randy). Chacon remains a big performance risk. People say pitching outside of Colorado will help him but there's no way to reliably estimate how good he'll be based on 10-15 starts.
We shouldn't give him away for free but calling him untouchable is greatly exaggerating. There are players out there, for whom he can be dealt to benefit the team. On the surface, Chacon for Wilkerson/Schneider sounds interesting and is worth looking into.
The yankees always go cheap when they can, which I know it makes no sense on the surface. Yanks will pay for the big ticket, but when it comes down to other players it is always trying to find someone less expensive he can do the job almost the same.
I don't know that I've seen that come into play too often.
In any case I like Robinson Cano.
ReggieBar
10-21-05, 11:53 AM
I believe WAS C Brian Schneider is a FA this off season.
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 11:54 AM
Is there really much of a difference between Torii Hunter and Milton Bradley outside of what it will cost to acquire them?
Yeah, Hunter is regarded as a class act that has always talked about how much he respects the Yankee tradition, and Bradley is regarded as an @$$ who is forced to take anger management counseling.
Oh and Hunter is a better fielder.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 11:55 AM
Yeah, Hunter is regarded as a class act that has always talked about how much he respects the Yankee tradition, and Bradley is regarded as an @$$ who is forced to take anger management counseling.
Oh and Hunter is a better fielder.
Bradley rated better defensively this year, and has most years. But he doesn't dive as much, so there's that.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 11:56 AM
If I'm bringing in Schneider, I'm trading Posada. If we eat part of his salary, they'd probably do it. Posada and a prospect or Aaron Small or something for Wilkerson and Schneider. Improves their horrendous offense, improves our defense, and makes us younger.
You're insane if you think that that trade will work. I'm thinking logically, not in a fantasy world. Would I like to trade Posada and Aaron Small for Schneider and Wilkerson? Sure. I'd also like to date Jessica Alba, but we all know that's not going to happen. No one, I repeat, NO ONE, will take Posada's god awful contract and give the Yankees something of value. And, Aaron Small? C'mon, you cant actually think that a team is going to want a guy who is a career minor leaguer who had a flash in the pan season this year.
To get something of value, you must give something of value.
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 11:59 AM
This author says that we need to get another starter? Funny, i was thinking of trying to lose a couple we had.
And i'm not talking about Small and Chacon.....it's amazing that we thank these guys for saving us from missing the playoffs, and a week later we're ready to send them out of here.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 11:59 AM
You're insane if you think that that trade will work. I'm thinking logically, not in a fantasy world. Would I like to trade Posada and Aaron Small for Schneider and Wilkerson? Sure. I'd also like to date Jessica Alba, but we all know that's not going to happen. No one, I repeat, NO ONE, will take Posada's god awful contract and give the Yankees something of value. And, Aaron Small? C'mon, you cant actually think that a team is going to want a guy who is a career minor leaguer who had a flash in the pan season this year.
To get something of value, you must give something of value.
Kent Bottenfield was traded for Jim Edmonds, who was a lot better than Wilkerson. Like I said, I'd make a preliminary offer of Posada and Small, if that didn't work, i'd be willing to substitute other things in Small's place. But Posada is still one of the best hitting catchers in baseball, and Wilkerson isn't a starter for them. If we swallow part of Posada's deal, then he has a ton of trade value.
b_joseph
10-21-05, 12:00 PM
I think people are overrating Chacon a bit here. He had a nice stretch of 10 or 15 starts and people are already calling him our best pitcher (over Randy). Chacon remains a big performance risk. People say pitching outside of Colorado will help him but there's no way to reliably estimate how good he'll be based on 10-15 starts.
We shouldn't give him away for free but calling him untouchable is greatly exaggerating. There are players out there, for whom he can be dealt to benefit the team. On the surface, Chacon for Wilkerson/Schneider sounds interesting and is worth looking into.
Chacon, based solely on his playoff performance is worthy of untouchable status.
The man has no fear and relishes playing in New York.
surge511
10-21-05, 12:00 PM
Although I like Duncan and would hate trading him, I wouldnt mind seeing a trade like this:
The Yankees trade Eric Duncan, Shawn Chacon and possibly a filler player to Washington for Brad Wilkerson, Brian Schneider and Jamey Carroll.
Wilkerson would solve the CF problem. Schneider is an excellent defensive catcher who can hit and would spell Posada at catcher whenever needed and Carroll is a nice utility guy who can play 2nd and 3rd and is also a pesky batter who runs well.
I would absolutely never make this trade. We could get soo much more value for our 2 biggest trading chips. Never in my life would I make this trade, and neither would the Yankees.
surge511
10-21-05, 12:02 PM
Chacon, based solely on his playoff performance is worthy of untouchable status.
The man has no fear and relishes playing in New York.
Agreed. Of course there is a risk involved in relying on a pitcher with 1 good half-year. However, he has shown he will not melt under pressure, and I feel confident in him going into next year.
El Moose
10-21-05, 12:03 PM
Yeah, Hunter is regarded as a class act that has always talked about how much he respects the Yankee tradition, and Bradley is regarded as an @$$ who is forced to take anger management counseling.
Oh and Hunter is a better fielder.
Class act schmass act. Reggie, Boomer, Billy Martin, Roger, Darryl, Leyritz, Tim Raines, etc. were hardly class acts and they were important pieces of WS teams. Bradley is a comparable hitter (though with more upside), comparable fielder and less costly. He just doesn't have all of Hunter's overrated webgems or ONE sick catch at an ASG.
Hunter also has a propensity for slamming into walls. Yeah, I guess that's "gritty". It's also career shortening/threatening and hurts long run productivity - not to mention actual presence - in the field. See Griffey Jr., Kenneth.
MTYankee23
10-21-05, 12:03 PM
Yes. This is the problem when u look at straight stats. Fantasy baseball-wise, they are equal. In reality, Hunter is the superior player, or has been.
Hunter is a much better fit, better guy and more power. Hunter will also blend in.
Don't go cheap here. The yankees always go cheap when they can, which I know it makes no sense on the surface. Yanks will pay for the big ticket, but when it comes down to other players it is always trying to find someone less expensive he can do the job almost the same.
That is how we get Jared Wright over Lieber.
Hunter is a superior player.
The cheap you speak of isn't money cheap. Its player cheap. Hunter would probably cost prospects/Cano. Where I don't believe Bradley would. Hunter is also not the "great clubhouse guy" people speak of (although I do like his competitiveness) he was involved in a couple scuffles with teammates this season. When people say that we have leverage over Minnesota to acquire him, that isn't entirely true, they might look to move him, but we won't be the only bidders. I think you'd find very few teams looking into Bradley, and the reasons for that are probably misguided. The Yankees of recent memory, have not been quick to dismiss players with difficult attitudes/personal lives. (Gooden, Strawberry, Sheffield to name 3).
ICEBERG18
10-21-05, 12:03 PM
This author says that we need to get another starter? Funny, i was thinking of trying to los a couple we had.
If the Yankees do indeed get one more starter, My $$$ would be on it being Daisuke Matsuzaka if he's posted.
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 12:03 PM
Agreed. Of course there is a risk involved in relying on a pitcher with 1 good half-year. However, he has shown he will not melt under pressure, and I feel confident in him going into next year.
It could be possible that his "one good half year" was because he spent it away from the Colorado Rockies. Which is what Cashman believed would happen..
First, dealing a starting pitcher who at worst is likely to be a horse who can eat innings and pitch decently and at best could be what he was this year for them......for a good but not great player isn't the greatest idea. Reason for this is that if you look at the Yankee staff, it is littered with huge question marks everywhere. The Chacon question mark is the only one without an injury. Big difference.
So I don't look to deal CHacon AT ALL. Not that he is unbelievably valuable, but by trading him you weaken what is already a staff filled with the unknown. You want a situation like this summer where you are two-deep in the rotation with guys who should either still be in the minors or have never been good enough to be in the majors in the first place?
As for Bradley....tremendous talent. Everywhere he's gone, he's gotten into trouble on the field and off. At some point, it passes the line from immaturity to bad guy. I don't know if he's a "bad guy", or if he has significant anger management issues. I suspect the latter, but still- I don't think that is in the past.
Would I accept him on the team? Sure. But it WOULD be playing with a little fire....at some point the mouth is going to open or he is going to cross the line.
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 12:04 PM
If the Yankees do indeed get one more starter, My $$$ would be on it being Daisuke Matsuzaka if he's posted.
Yeah, Japanese pitchers make great big money investments in MLB. :uhh:
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 12:07 PM
That last line in the article about Garciappara is pretty interesting, no way he would take a backup IF role though.
yanksphan
10-21-05, 12:08 PM
First, dealing a starting pitcher who at worst is likely to be a horse who can eat innings and pitch decently and at best could be what he was this year for them......for a good but not great player isn't the greatest idea. Reason for this is that if you look at the Yankee staff, it is littered with huge question marks everywhere. The Chacon question mark is the only one without an injury. Big difference.
So I don't look to deal CHacon AT ALL. Not that he is unbelievably valuable, but by trading him you weaken what is already a staff filled with the unknown. You want a situation like this summer where you are two-deep in the rotation with guys who should either still be in the minors or have never been good enough to be in the majors in the first place?
As for Bradley....tremendous talent. Everywhere he's gone, he's gotten into trouble on the field and off. At some point, it passes the line from immaturity to bad guy. I don't know if he's a "bad guy", or if he has significant anger management issues. I suspect the latter, but still- I don't think that is in the past.
Would I accept him on the team? Sure. But it WOULD be playing with a little fire....at some point the mouth is going to open or he is going to cross the line.
Chacon has also had both an injury history AND his own legal troubles.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 12:10 PM
Kent Bottenfield was traded for Jim Edmonds, who was a lot better than Wilkerson. Like I said, I'd make a preliminary offer of Posada and Small, if that didn't work, i'd be willing to substitute other things in Small's place. But Posada is still one of the best hitting catchers in baseball, and Wilkerson isn't a starter for them. If we swallow part of Posada's deal, then he has a ton of trade value.
If Brian Cashman called up Jim Bowden and said, "How about Jorge Posada and Aaron Small for Brad Wilkerson and Brian Schneider." Cashman would hear laughter and then a dial tone. If the Yankees eat Posada's contract, maybe they get something of value in a deal. Remember, he's coming of a sub-par year for himself and it's pretty clear he is aging. Aaron Small, while a good story and a great pitcher for the Yankees down the stretch, has no trade value. I'd bet the farm he could not repeat what he did this year in 2006. He's just another pitcher who had a flash in the pan year.
El Moose
10-21-05, 12:11 PM
Chacon, based solely on his playoff performance is worthy of untouchable status.
The man has no fear and relishes playing in New York.
Well, he did shut down the weakest (by far) hitting team in this postseason in his one start, so I'll give him props for that.
I grew up close to New York and I'd relish playing for the Yankees, too. I really wouldn't be too afraid of anything, either. Maybe I should get a spot in the rotation.
15 Pinstripes
10-21-05, 12:11 PM
Isn't there anyone here who thinks we could give Pavano at least one healthy year before we throw him on the scrap heap? I don't love the guy, but I think you have to look at him next year. If the Yanks were overwhelmed for a great player I could see him going in an off season deal. But I don't think that is very likely.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 12:12 PM
I would absolutely never make this trade. We could get soo much more value for our 2 biggest trading chips. Never in my life would I make this trade, and neither would the Yankees.
The Yankees two biggest trading chips are untouchable. Their names are Cano and Wang.
You dont like the deal? Ok, I'll beef it up a bit. Take away Jamey Carroll and put Terrmel Sledge in the deal.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 12:14 PM
Isn't there anyone here who thinks we could give Pavano at least one healthy year before we throw him on the scrap heap? I don't love the guy, but I think you have to look at him next year. If the Yanks were overwhelmed for a great player I could see him going in an off season deal. But I don't think that is very likely.
I'm with you here. I'd love to see what he could do for a full season when he's healthy. The Yankees would have a hard time trading him anyway without eating a lot of his contract.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 12:15 PM
If Brian Cashman called up Jim Bowden and said, "How about Jorge Posada and Aaron Small for Brad Wilkerson and Brian Schneider." Cashman would hear laugher and then a dial tone. If the Yankees eat Posada's contract, maybe they get something of value in a deal. Remember, he's coming of a sub-par year for himself and it's pretty clear he is aging. Aaron Small, while a good story and a great pitcher for the Yankees down the stretch, has no trade value. I'd bet the farm he could not repeat what he did this year in 2006. He's just another pitcher who had a flash in the pan year.
A flash in the pan has some value, because people will trade for recent success. I can't count how many times a guy did something totally out of context, and somebody traded him for something much better. As I mentioned, Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy for Jim Edmonds. Posada had a down year by his standards, but he's still a much better hitter than Schneider. And Wilkerson is not going to start. Why do people think Posada is so worthless? He's durable, he gets on base, and he has power. He's one of the best hitting catchers in baseball. What kind of lunacy is it to suggest they couldn't get any value for him?
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 12:16 PM
If Brian Cashman called up Jim Bowden and said, "How about Jorge Posada and Aaron Small for Brad Wilkerson and Brian Schneider." Cashman would hear laugher and then a dial tone. If the Yankees eat Posada's contract, maybe they get something of value in a deal. Remember, he's coming of a sub-par year for himself and it's pretty clear he is aging. Aaron Small, while a good story and a great pitcher for the Yankees down the stretch, has no trade value. I'd bet the farm he could not repeat what he did this year in 2006. He's just another pitcher who had a flash in the pan year.
I'm sorry, but trading Posada just isn't our biggest concern this year. Finding a BACKUP is. Alot of posters here are ready to banish Jorge around here, but the fact remains that he can still hit better than most catchers, can throw out baserunners, and in the playoffs he called great games and drew walks. So if you had to eat his salary, why the hell would you trade him?! True he's geting older, slowing down. But he still handles the staff well, and most of the veterans trust him, we should worry about getting a guy ready to take the job in the next year or so than trying a force fix now.
yanksphan
10-21-05, 12:16 PM
Why do people think Posada is so worthless? He's durable, he gets on base, and he has power. He's one of the best hitting catchers in baseball. What kind of lunacy is it to suggest they couldn't get any value for him?
Which makes him a great DH. His catching skills leave much to be desired.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 12:16 PM
It would be interesting to see how Bradley would play under a manger like Torre. He's worked with plenty on malcontents before and some have left the dark side, if you will.
27IsNext
10-21-05, 12:18 PM
I really HOPE this article isn't an indication of what the Yankees are thinking. Some ideas are good, but trading Cano (or for that matter anything of value) for Hunter? No.
keithf1
10-21-05, 12:20 PM
Do you know how many pissed off Yankee fans there will be if we trade Cano? Don't we have any good CF prospects on the rise? Cano is only 22...he can be a foundation for the team for 15 years.
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 12:20 PM
Which makes him a great DH. His catching skills leave much to be desired.
It seemed that with having every fifth day off he caught and played much better. He can still block the plate and throw out runners pretty well.
shotgun_sam
10-21-05, 12:20 PM
Do you know how many pissed off Yankee fans there will be if we trade Cano? Isn't Duncan in the minors a CF? Or is he a RF?
.....he's a 1B
EDIT: you corrected your post
i think the best CF prospect we have close is Melky Cabrera, and he didn't win over Torre, so there's no way.
Thanks for the link. That article basically sums up common knowledge about which areas the Yankees are identifying for improvement for 2006. Personally, the only player I'd consider trading Robinson Cano for, and this may surprise some, would be Carlos Beltran of the Mets.
I would not tinker much with the roster. The starting rotation has NY and playoff experience and is deep and flexibile. I would keep Al Leiter as the lefty specialist and Aaron Small as the long man to start. We must add 2 or 3 capable relievers like Ryan to help Mariano Rivera. I'd like to see Lyle Overbay on the right side in Pinstripes next to Cano because he's young, but resigning Tino Martinez or John Olerud seems 6 of one vs. a half dozen of another. I would simply bring back Martinez.
Are you aware that Tino made 8 errors doing a fill in job. Whatever defence he had is now gone.And i believe that i read that Leiter needed surgury and that he was probably done.
b_joseph
10-21-05, 12:22 PM
Well, he did shut down the weakest (by far) hitting team in this postseason in his one start, so I'll give him props for that.
I grew up close to New York and I'd relish playing for the Yankees, too. I really wouldn't be too afraid of anything, either. Maybe I should get a spot in the rotation.
yeah, i'm sure you would be supremely confident pitching infront of 55,000 people in October. Elimination game.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-21-05, 12:23 PM
I really HOPE this article isn't an indication of what the Yankees are thinking. Some ideas are good, but trading Cano (or for that matter anything of value) for Hunter? No.
The part about Hunter for Cano is patently ridiculous. The rest is what we already know. I am surprised it didn't the wishful thinking of a Yankee hater...hey, wait a minute...maybe it did.
jschoenberg
10-21-05, 12:25 PM
Yeah, great link SURGE 511!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/...19-majors_x.htm
Really puts it all out there.
I didn't see how Cano's departure would be fixed though if he were traded for Hunter.
27IsNext
10-21-05, 12:27 PM
If Cashman comes back, which is what it's looking like, Cano and Wang (and probably Chacon too) will be untouchable.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-21-05, 12:31 PM
If Cashman comes back, which is what it's looking like, Cano and Wang (and probably Chacon too) will be untouchable.
Exactly. Leave Small alone, too. Resign Matsui, get your BP help, get a decent CF, then leave it all alone for a year. If you want to have fun, or need to be doing something else with your time, try screwing up potential Red Sox deals.
A flash in the pan has some value, because people will trade for recent success. I can't count how many times a guy did something totally out of context, and somebody traded him for something much better. As I mentioned, Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy for Jim Edmonds. Posada had a down year by his standards, but he's still a much better hitter than Schneider. And Wilkerson is not going to start. Why do people think Posada is so worthless? He's durable, he gets on base, and he has power. He's one of the best hitting catchers in baseball. What kind of lunacy is it to suggest they couldn't get any value for him?
It's simple. He is a catcher on the wrong side of the hill, is not very good defensively, and is making a ton of money. He doesn't have value equal to his worth to the Yanks. Plus....if anybody wants to dig a little on him, they'll find a .229 postseason average in a half season's worth of games- either he hasn't hit good pitching when it counted, or he has shrinked offensively in the spotlight.
4degrees
10-21-05, 12:32 PM
- I think we could handle Bradley by himself. But with he and Shef, that's too incendiary. You know sooner or later those 2 will throw down. However, due to all his problems, Bradley would come a lot more cheaply than Hunter.
- I am not sold on Hunter. Too much money and talent for too little production (0.780 OPS and a 0.330 OBP).
- Part of the reason why people want to trade Jorge is that when players age, their performance tends to fall off the shelf. If you look at the histories of a lot of great players (Mays, Aaron, etc), they're hitting 0.900+ OPS and suddenly, they drop over 100 pts and keep falling. Jorge dropped off a 100 pts and he's going to just get worse. We should have moved Bernie a long time ago; some of us favor moving a player a day early than a day late.
- JT Snow is a very viable back-up. he still plays stellar defense and he's a 0.360 OBP kind of hitter. We don't need slugging (we have enough of that) but what we do need is better OBP from the bottom of the order.
indianyanksfan
10-21-05, 12:37 PM
isnt pierzinsky a fa? why not sign him and make posada the dh?
or if you want to keep po as the catcher then why not ramon hernandez as backup? i've heard his name thrown around here.
NYDCYankee
10-21-05, 12:45 PM
or if you want to keep po as the catcher then why not ramon hernandez as backup? i've heard his name thrown around here.
Becauase Ramon Hernandez is one of the best catchers in baseball and he will be starting somewhere next year.
yanksphan
10-21-05, 12:45 PM
isnt pierzinsky a fa? why not sign him and make posada the dh?
or if you want to keep po as the catcher then why not ramon hernandez as backup? i've heard his name thrown around here.
Ramon has said he's going to ask for Varitek money. You think we can have a $10/year backup?
El Moose
10-21-05, 12:46 PM
I'm really starting to like the Wilkerson idea - if we can actually pull it off. His cost relative to Bradley's is the main consideration. He has a career 365 OBP and some pop in his bat (already 150 career doubles). The question is how do we get him. They need cheap offense, which isn't exactly something we have except for Cano, and they're not likely to want him after getting Vidro back.
Looks like it won't be easy to pull off, unfortunately. Bradley is a sold plan B, though. The Cano for Hunter swap is sheer lunacy. I can't believe anyone is taking that idea seriously.
Chacon, based solely on his playoff performance is worthy of untouchable status.
The man has no fear and relishes playing in New York.
I agree, the fact of the matter is that he was the best pitcher they had this year. Will he bet the best next year? who knows, anyone on this forum? Two things win ws's, pitching and defence. We've had both problems, he was one of the bright spots. He's got tons of ability and maybe more important we know that he can handle NY pressure, I think that it would be a major mistake to get rid of him.
indianyanksfan
10-21-05, 12:48 PM
Ramon has said he's going to ask for Varitek money. You think we can have a $10/year backup?
i havent followed anything for the last 2 weeks so i have no idea.
then why not sign pierzinsky?
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 12:53 PM
It's simple. He is a catcher on the wrong side of the hill, is not very good defensively, and is making a ton of money. He doesn't have value equal to his worth to the Yanks. Plus....if anybody wants to dig a little on him, they'll find a .229 postseason average in a half season's worth of games- either he hasn't hit good pitching when it counted, or he has shrinked offensively in the spotlight.
Yeah I don't see Posada having much trade value either.
4degrees
10-21-05, 12:54 PM
I work out here in Silicon Valley, and let me just say the attitude of when AJ Pierzynski left was don't let the door hit you on the way out. Some of the pitchers on the Giants referred to him as a cancer.
Pierzynski's reputation is:
1. he's a media whore (think Curt Schilling)
2. He's a great teammate when you're winning, but when things get rough, he turns on his teammates
3. He doesn't have the best work habits
I would take a pass.
THEBOSS84
10-21-05, 12:55 PM
I have been onboard with Bradley all year. I truly believe a lot of his problems have been due to immaturity and that Joe would be the perfect manager for him. Given his history, he will not command a huge salary or a long-term deal which makes him a great short-term solution if nothing else.
How is Bradley's defense? I know his temper is off the walls, and that he can bat over 260 with some pop.
A flash in the pan has some value, because people will trade for recent success. I can't count how many times a guy did something totally out of context, and somebody traded him for something much better. As I mentioned, Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy for Jim Edmonds. Posada had a down year by his standards, but he's still a much better hitter than Schneider. And Wilkerson is not going to start. Why do people think Posada is so worthless? He's durable, he gets on base, and he has power. He's one of the best hitting catchers in baseball. What kind of lunacy is it to suggest they couldn't get any value for him?
It seems to me that most fans on this forum don't really know how little talent there is behind other teams plates?
TheBamTino24
10-21-05, 12:59 PM
That would be sad. Having to trade a potential top player to our cross town rivals for a player we could have signed last season and elected not to.
I would agree. I was very surprised the Yankees did not go after Carlos Beltran, even if it would have put their payroll up $15 million or so. I mean jeez, they paid Kevin Brown that much to watch TV.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 01:00 PM
A flash in the pan has some value, because people will trade for recent success. I can't count how many times a guy did something totally out of context, and somebody traded him for something much better. As I mentioned, Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy for Jim Edmonds.
Just because it's happend once doesnt mean it's going to happen again. Teams learn from things like that. Look, I love what Aaron Small did for the Yankees this year. He saved their butts. But, he is what he is. A career minor leaguer who probably did the best he is ever going to do in the Majors last season. Trading him for something to help the Yankees would be nice, but it's not probable and likely not going to happen.
Posada had a down year by his standards, but he's still a much better hitter than Schneider. And Wilkerson is not going to start. Why do people think Posada is so worthless? He's durable, he gets on base, and he has power. He's one of the best hitting catchers in baseball. What kind of lunacy is it to suggest they couldn't get any value for him?
We cant escape the fact that Posada has likely reached the point in his career where he is starting to go on a decline. This past year has shown that. Was it an anomally? Possibly. But it's more likely that age and all the years of catching are catching up to him (no pun intended). I dont think it's lunacy to think that the Yankees cant get anything of value for Posada. With the size of his contract, his age and his declining skills, it's not likely a team is going to want him. He's just not what he used to be.
El Moose
10-21-05, 01:04 PM
I agree, the fact of the matter is that he was the best pitcher they had this year. Will he bet the best next year? who knows, anyone on this forum? Two things win ws's, pitching and defence. We've had both problems, he was one of the bright spots. He's got tons of ability and maybe more important we know that he can handle NY pressure, I think that it would be a major mistake to get rid of him.
If you look at Chacon's peripherals after the break, they weren't that great. He walked 33 batters and struck out only 50 in 93 innings, which is only a 1.5 K/BB ratio and less than 5 K/9. Historically, those stats have been better predictors of future performance than raw whip and era, which depend largely on defense and luck. He also had a 0.92 GB/FB ratio, which puts him towards the bottom quartile in MLB. The fact of the matter is, a pitcher with fly ball tendencies who can't strike guys out is a recipe for an unsuccessful pitcher. In his favor, though, he did give up only 8 home runs over that period, but given his fly ball tendencies, a lot of that is probably luck.
Chacon put up a nice ERA in the 2nd half, but unless he starts K'ing guys or getting them to hit ground balls or both, that probably won't last and we could be kicking ourselves for not selling him high when we had the chance.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 01:05 PM
I'm sorry, but trading Posada just isn't our biggest concern this year. Finding a BACKUP is. Alot of posters here are ready to banish Jorge around here, but the fact remains that he can still hit better than most catchers, can throw out baserunners, and in the playoffs he called great games and drew walks. So if you had to eat his salary, why the hell would you trade him?! True he's geting older, slowing down. But he still handles the staff well, and most of the veterans trust him, we should worry about getting a guy ready to take the job in the next year or so than trying a force fix now.
I never said they should trade Posada. Read my previous posts. You should be quoting I Love Wang.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 01:08 PM
It seems to me that most fans on this forum don't really know how little talent there is behind other teams plates?
Brian Schneider is one of the best defensive catchers in the game today.
I Love Wang
10-21-05, 01:12 PM
Just because it's happend once doesnt mean it's going to happen again. Teams learn from things like that. Look, I love what Aaron Small did for the Yankees this year. He saved their butts. But, he is what he is. A career minor leaguer who probably did the best he is ever going to do in the Majors last season. Trading him for something to help the Yankees would be nice, but it's not probable and likely not going to happen.
The point about Small is we should TRY to get what value we can for him, because its unlikely he will ever be this valuable again. The guy did go 10-0 with a 3.20era this year. Whether or not you think its repeatable, and I don't, doesn't mean nobody in the world would be willing to sacrifice some talent to see if he does. It happens. Bottenfield for Edmonds was just one example. The Diamondbacks threw a ton of money at Willie Blair after he went 16-8. The Phillies took Omar Daal as the centerpiece of a deal for Curt Schilling after an out of context year. The Astros signed Jose Lima to a huge extension after he inexplicably won 21 games, only to watch him post an ERA pushing 7 the following year.
We cant escape the fact that Posada has likely reached the point in his career where he is starting to go on a decline. This past year has shown that. Was it an anomally? Possibly. But it's more likely that age and all the years of catching are catching up to him (no pun intended). I dont think it's lunacy to think that the Yankees cant get anything of value for Posada. With the size of his contract, his age and his declining skills, it's not likely a team is going to want him. He's just not what he used to be.
So no player past their prime ever gets traded for value? Thats a new one. Not what he used to be is still better than most teams have. Posada has trade value, even though most people on this board don't like him.
Just because it's happend once doesnt mean it's going to happen again. Teams learn from things like that. Look, I love what Aaron Small did for the Yankees this year. He saved their butts. But, he is what he is. A career minor leaguer who probably did the best he is ever going to do in the Majors last season. Trading him for something to help the Yankees would be nice, but it's not probable and likely not going to happen.
We cant escape the fact that Posada has likely reached the point in his career where he is starting to go on a decline. This past year has shown that. Was it an anomally? Possibly. But it's more likely that age and all the years of catching are catching up to him (no pun intended). I dont think it's lunacy to think that the Yankees cant get anything of value for Posada. With the size of his contract, his age and his declining skills, it's not likely a team is going to want him. He's just not what he used to be.
The past 2 years have showed decline
2003 2004 2005
Equ- .318 .309 .285
WARP 8.9 6.9 4.8
JfromJersey
10-21-05, 01:21 PM
Making Giambi a full time DH is STUPID STUPID STUPID. Leave him alone already. Next year he's an All Star 1st baseman. So he's not the greatest fielder..BFD. He hits so much better as a 1st baseman than as a DH, the point is no longer debateable. This past season just confirmed it, beyond all reasonable doubt. He's not going to learn to be a better DH at this stage in his career. SHEESH.
NelsonMuntz
10-21-05, 01:29 PM
Brian Schneider is one of the best defensive catchers in the game today.
Agreed. He also calls a great game and pitchers love working with him.
El Moose
10-21-05, 01:30 PM
Brian Schneider is one of the best defensive catchers in the game today.
What do you mean by defensive catcher? I've heard 2 definitions. The first is a catcher who blocks a lot of balls and has a strong throwing arm. The second is someone who "calls a good game"/handles pitchers well.
I think the first is overrated. Posada led the majors with 8 passed balls this year. 3 or 4 guys are tied for fewest allowed at 3 passed balls for a difference of 5. This is a shot in the dark, but I'd guess 5 passed balls would account for 1 or 2 runs over the course of a season, which is miniscule.
A strong throwing arm is probably something catchers can use to talk smack amongst themselves, but it just isn't valuable these days when teams don't run as much.
The second can be very valuable. I heard somewhere that the best "pitch framers" can steal 10-15 strikes per game for their pitchers, which is a huge advantage (average game = 250 pitches). I've heard Gregg Zaun was great at this but don't know of any others. If we had a catcher who could do these things, I'd pay up for him (reasonably) even if he did have a lousy bat.
Kulish29
10-21-05, 01:31 PM
The point about Small is we should TRY to get what value we can for him, because its unlikely he will ever be this valuable again. The guy did go 10-0 with a 3.20era this year. Whether or not you think its repeatable, and I don't, doesn't mean nobody in the world would be willing to sacrifice some talent to see if he does. It happens. Bottenfield for Edmonds was just one example. The Diamondbacks threw a ton of money at Willie Blair after he went 16-8. The Phillies took Omar Daal as the centerpiece of a deal for Curt Schilling after an out of context year. The Astros signed Jose Lima to a huge extension after he inexplicably won 21 games, only to watch him post an ERA pushing 7 the following year.
If some team is gullable enough to think that Small can do it again, then hey, I'm for trading him for a player who can help. I just dont think it will happen.
So no player past their prime ever gets traded for value? Thats a new one. Not what he used to be is still better than most teams have. Posada has trade value, even though most people on this board don't like him.
I never said that a player past his prime never gets traded for anything of value. What I'm saying is, teams are a lot smarter now. I like Posada and everything he's done for the Yankees organization. But facts are facts. He's a player on the decline who has an ugly contract.
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