View Full Version : BJ Ryan interested in Yankees / Ryan signs with Toronto
Yankees1962
09-30-05, 05:08 AM
According to the linked Newsday article, Ryan is interested in joining a team that's winning, no matter if it's as a closer or not. If the Yankees can sign him then they need to do that.
B.J. Ryan has watched the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry unfold from afar in recent years, admiring the intensity and energy that is attached to every pitch.
Now that he has a chance, he wouldn't mind experiencing it firsthand.
Ryan, the Orioles' closer and free-agent-to-be, said yesterday he doesn't have to be a closer and wants desperately to play for a winner.
"That's got to be a good atmosphere to play in every day," he said. "Playing in front of 40- or 50,000 in New York and a packed house in Boston, the atmosphere is there every night. If you go out and produce, you're going to have a lot of people behind you."
Finding bullpen help will be a priority for the Yankees, with only Mariano Rivera signed and Tanyon Sturtze and Scott Proctor under their control.
Ryan, 29, a hard-throwing lefthander, seemed excited by the prospect of being courted by the Yankees. "Of course you'd listen. It's the Yankees," he said. "They put winners on the field. That's what it boils down to: You want to play for a winner."
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spynotes304448494sep30,0,1361477.story?coll=ny-yankees-print
SoCal Pinstriper
09-30-05, 05:29 AM
I'd love to see him in NY, but you've got to believe that the Sox will put together a massive effort. Their bullpen is a mess.
yankeebot
09-30-05, 05:30 AM
The Yankees need BP help. The Red Sox need a closer. It would be nice but I doubt B.J. picks the Yanks.
Yankees1962
09-30-05, 05:40 AM
The Yankees need BP help. The Red Sox need a closer. It would be nice but I doubt B.J. picks the Yanks.
Just remember, the Red Sox are on the hook for their injured closer the next two seasons. Their budget is going to be tapped with Damon up for free agency too.
conkermaniac
09-30-05, 05:54 AM
Sign BJ Ryan as a setup man. Then resign Gordon as our mopup guy.
RhodeyYankee2638
09-30-05, 05:56 AM
That would be fantastic. Sturtze, Ryan, Gordon, Rivera. Imagine having a real left hander
YankeePride1967
09-30-05, 06:02 AM
I would take BJ Ryan in a NY Minute. Can he be there tonight? ;)
GimeMoMuny
09-30-05, 06:12 AM
The Yankees need BP help. The Red Sox need a closer. It would be nice but I doubt B.J. picks the Yanks.At 29, Ryan will go to the team that pays him the most money.
If he were to choose the Yankees, Ryan would become an instant star on the team with the highest home (and road) attendance in all of Major League Baseball.
With Mariano Rivera's extension set to expire after completion of the 2006 season, there is a possibility that he would have a closer role in the future.
GraniteYankee
09-30-05, 06:22 AM
George, use the off-shore accounts for this guy. Our bullpen would be sick.
I don't have nay stats, but I do recall a couple of games I watched where the sawx got to him. THe ear;y season ortez hr after the renteria bunt and just recently anouting where he gave up the winning runs.
Just something to keep in mind
Y_2005_ALE_WC
09-30-05, 06:25 AM
Cash..what are you waiting for ? Sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal. Yanks can not even imagine in their wildest dreams, a setup man like Ryan. Even in the year when Julio used to the closer, Yankees could not out hit Ryan except for the odd game here and there.. just sign him.
Jersey Yankee
09-30-05, 06:27 AM
Sign BJ Ryan as a setup man. Then resign Gordon as our mopup guy.
Yeah, sign BJ as a setup guy. Gordon can come out in the 7th inning and be the backup setup man.
As to mopup guy, we've got two who can work the 9th inning to make sure we don't get a shutout (or try to make it a save situation): Messrs Franklin and Embree.
Jersey Yankee
09-30-05, 06:31 AM
I don't have nay stats, but I do recall a couple of games I watched where the sawx got to him. THe ear;y season ortez hr after the renteria bunt and just recently anouting where he gave up the winning runs.
Just something to keep in mind
Who cares about 2-3 of the 19 games we play against one single team. The man can keep us in contention for the rest.
So what, we lose a 3-game series because BJ Ryan "eff'd" up? I'll take winning the rest because (1) he can set up, and (2) because he can be an alternate closer.
*HOWEVER*, that "BJ" name has *GOT* to go. No BJ shall roam the Yankee clubhouse *UNLESS* he's got a few female groupies at the hotel.
George wanted this awhile back w/Smoltz, even offered him $13m/yr, but John declined, taking only $9m/yr to return to the Braves.
NDBoston
09-30-05, 06:34 AM
Just remember, the Red Sox are on the hook for their injured closer the next two seasons. Their budget is going to be tapped with Damon up for free agency too.
Foulke has an option for 2007 that's triggered by him finishing 58 games next year. The odds are that won't happen since he finished 61 games in 2004. Foulke will need to be pitching very well for him to have a chance for that option year.
Ryan has a smart agent. Any player should say good things about NY, Boston and other large markets if they're looking for the most money.
I don't see Boston going after him BTW
GimeMoMuny
09-30-05, 06:36 AM
I don't have nay stats, but I do recall a couple of games I watched where the sawx got to him. THe ear;y season ortez hr after the renteria bunt and just recently anouting where he gave up the winning runs.
Just something to keep in mindFirst four APP vs Boston were solid.
He was touched up during his 5th APP vs. Boston for 3 runs.
The 6th and 7th APP vs Boston were solid.
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_player_gamebygamelog.jsp?c_id=bal&playerID=124805&statType=2
puckmaster87
09-30-05, 06:36 AM
If Ryan wants to come here, get him. He's one of the best relievers available.
surge511
09-30-05, 06:43 AM
If I were the Yankees:
Sign Ryan to a big 3-year deal. Tell him to set up only for one or 2 more years, then he steps in to be the closer.
Tom Gordon is getting old, so at least explore other options. Kyle Farnsworth is available, I wouldn't mind seeing him in pinstripes.
surge511
09-30-05, 06:44 AM
A bullpen of Sturtze, Farnsworth, Ryan, and Rivera would be killer. Throw in Proctor and Matt Smith or some minor league guys (maybe even Wright/Small), and that is an awesome pen.
NewEraYanks2527
09-30-05, 06:48 AM
This just gets me all excited! By the way think about this, in a couple years a lefthanded closer in a Lefthanders park :ga-ga:
Evil Empire
09-30-05, 07:03 AM
At 29, Ryan will go to the team that pays him the most money.
If he were to choose the Yankees, Ryan would become an instant star on the team with the highest home (and road) attendance in all of Major League Baseball.
With Mariano Rivera's extension set to expire after completion of the 2006 season, there is a possibility that he would have a closer role in the future.
I agree with this. It's about the green, but he could also be closing in the near future.
Hopefully, he comes to ourside, but I'm sure Boston will fight till the bloody death to get him.
Gordon, Ryan, Mo :drool:
I know he wouldn't be eligible for the playoffs, but can't we trade for him now?!
:)
yanksconstantino24
09-30-05, 07:31 AM
I know he wouldn't be eligible for the playoffs, but can't we trade for him now?!
:)
If he clears waivers, then yes. I don't think he would clear though, Boston would probably try and claim him.
utopiapkwy
09-30-05, 07:33 AM
Like I have time to worry about this now.
justinvarnes
09-30-05, 08:24 AM
Ryan/Gordon/Rivera > or = Stanton/Nelson/Rivera
Hitman23
09-30-05, 08:31 AM
SSSSSWEEET!
make it so number 1....
RizzutoPix
09-30-05, 08:35 AM
Ryan/Gordon/Rivera > or = Stanton/Nelson/RiveraI can't really agree with that. Ryan while in his prime.. neither gordon or river are. Stanton,Nelson and rivera were dominant during the world series run.. Mariano just SICK. Marian for the first 2-3 years was UNHITTABLE. Just completely, once in cleveland besides that till the diamonds series he was untouchable. He's not fool proof now. But he's good ;)
TheBamTino24
09-30-05, 08:37 AM
I've seen him fold like a cheap suit in some very crucial situations this year.
mycroft
09-30-05, 08:38 AM
I have wanted Ryan for the last 2 years. I know he had mentioned interest in the Yankees in the past. We need a good lefty in the pen real bad. Ryan would be a great addition. We could use him this weekend. Maybe we could sign him like the sox signed Stanton.
vegematarian
09-30-05, 08:41 AM
That would be fantastic. Sturtze, Ryan, Gordon, Rivera. Imagine having a real left hander
Please do not include the words "fantastic" and "Sturtze" in the same sentence, please.
bobby jr
09-30-05, 08:42 AM
He's an Oriole and I hope he remains an Oriole. He might just be trying to up the ante by these remarks.
It would be nice if the O's took some players from the Yankees for a change.
Louis B. Tiffany
09-30-05, 08:52 AM
He might just be trying to up the ante by these remarks.
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner. I think one of the first things they teach you when you gradutate from Agent's school is that when your client's contract is up is to have your client pine for how much they want to play for the Sox or Yankees whether they really have a desire to do so or not.
I tend to think that Ryan isn't the only Oriole begging for a one-way ticket out of Baltimore.
I'd do a Renteria-for-Tejada/Mueller for Mora deal! :D
BronxByTheBay
09-30-05, 09:10 AM
I don't see Boston going after him BTW
If Boston doesn't go after him, then he's a Yankee in 2006.
If Boston wants him, he's a Red Sox. They can offer him a closer job.
in MO I trust 42
09-30-05, 09:12 AM
ill take him
ICEBERG18
09-30-05, 09:13 AM
I know for a fact that Cashman absolutely loves Ryan.
NelsonMuntz
09-30-05, 09:15 AM
The thought of a Gordon, Ryan, Rivera 7th-8th-9th makes me :drool: But my guess is he would prefer to be a closer and is just using the Yankees to drive up his price. He'd be foolish not to.
Hitman23
09-30-05, 09:17 AM
The thought of a Gordon, Ryan, Rivera 7th-8th-9th makes me :drool: But my guess is he would prefer to be a closer and is just using the Yankees to drive up his price. He'd be foolish not to.I think he knows all things must come to an end. How long is Mo going to close? Another year? Two? Ryan has alot of time left. He'll slide right in.
The Yankees should, as soon as the Free Agency signing window opens, offer Mr. Ryan a fair and generous offer to come be the set up man for the Yankees. They can also offer that he can be Mo's successor.
They should tell Mr. Ryan that he has 24 hours to accept or reject the offer and that if he rejects the offer the Yankees will be making no further offers.
The Yankees need to put themselves in a position of power, not a position of being used.
No prosepctive FA with a brain rules out the Yankees no matter what their true feelings are.
That said, if Torre returns, given his preference for handedness over ability (see Heredia and Embree), signing Ryan is almost as important as overhauling the OF defense.
IronCaballo4
09-30-05, 09:54 AM
signing "The Job" would be awesome
38Special
09-30-05, 09:57 AM
i dont believe that his agent would agree with this (so i dont think its a strategy). He's not going to get close to the same amount of money if he says he'd be okay with being a setup man. I think he's really speaking from the heart about it.
i dont believe that his agent would agree with this (so i dont think its a strategy). He's not going to get close to the same amount of money if he says he'd be okay with being a setup man. I think he's really speaking from the heart about it.
He is a proven closer. Consequently, if the Yankees are interested, they know that they will have to pay closer money.
Kulish29
09-30-05, 10:00 AM
According to the linked Newsday article, Ryan is interested in joining a team that's winning, no matter if it's as a closer or not. If the Yankees can sign him then they need to do that.
"Of course you'd listen. It's the Yankees," he said. "They put winners on the field. That's what it boils down to: You want to play for a winner."
Ryan added, "I'll also get an assload of money for going there."
This is of course a joke, but you know he's thinking about that too.
Sheff_Rod
09-30-05, 10:01 AM
signing "The Job" would be awesome
:lol:
But yeah it would be awesome if they can sign him, the guy is a strikeout machine!
38Special
09-30-05, 10:01 AM
He is a proven closer. Consequently, if the Yankees are interested, they know that they will have to pay closer money.
He's 34/39 for saves and 1-4. I think hes a tremendous relief pitcher, but to say hes proven based on one year as a closer with "good" results
I guess its depends on your definition of proven. His numbers are better than Gordon's in the south side (the year prior to our signing him), but not by much. Gordon did not get Rivera-like money.
WhatRivalry22
09-30-05, 10:03 AM
We'd have a Big Unit, Small Wang and we might get a BJ? Awesome!
nyg02005
09-30-05, 10:10 AM
I am all for it as long as they also sign other reliever such as farnsworth, mota. If it will prohibit them then I would go for Sauebeck and Eyre or fuentes.
thegift711
09-30-05, 10:14 AM
How much do the Sox pay Foulke? 7 million a year? I don't see them coming up with more money than NYY for Ryan... over 10 million committed to their closer(s)?
yankeebot
09-30-05, 10:15 AM
I would include the Mets in this discussion. They have shown the willingness to spend, desperately need a closer and are getting close enough to fielding a playoff team to join in the BJ Ryan sweepstakes.
He's 34/39 for saves and 1-4. I think hes a tremendous relief pitcher, but to say hes proven based on one year as a closer with "good" results
I guess its depends on your definition of proven. His numbers are better than Gordon's in the south side (the year prior to our signing him), but not by much. Gordon did not get Rivera-like money.
Obviously, it's a relative term. I used it in the sense that I don't believe it's reasonable to expect him to accept less than at least than the average annual salary for closers.
Given that Mo turns 37 over the course of next year, and that he has already managed to remain at a dominant level for a longer period than most closers, I don't think it's unreasonable (and certainly not heretical ;) ) to expect that his ability to remain at that level is winding down.
Ryan, who is now 29, could conceivably set up for Mariano next year (while being used in perhaps 7-10 save situations), and then be the co-closer, if not the primary closer in subsequent seasons, depending on Mariano's ability to continue to pitch at a very high level, and his desire to continue playing.
Used in that way, Ryan could extend Mariano's careeer.
panicfan
09-30-05, 10:23 AM
Too bad Cash won't be our GM next year...
I know for a fact that Cashman absolutely loves Ryan.
Yankees1962
09-30-05, 10:25 AM
Obviously, it's a relative term. I used it in the sense that I don't believe it's reasonable to expect him to accept less than at least than the average annual salary for closers.
Given that Mo turns 37 over the course of next year, and that he has already managed to remain at a dominant level for a longer period than most closers, I don't think it's unreasonable (and certainly not heretical ;) ) to expect that his ability to remain at that level is winding down.
Ryan, who is now 29, could conceivably set up for Mariano next year (while being used in perhaps 7-10 save situations), and then be the co-closer, if not the primary closer in subsequent seasons, depending on Mariano's ability to continue to pitch at a very high level, and his desire to continue playing.
Used in that way, Ryan could extend Mariano's careeer.
That's a possible scenario that I agree with.
wileedog
09-30-05, 10:30 AM
Obviously, it's a relative term. I used it in the sense that I don't believe it's reasonable to expect him to accept less than at least than the average annual salary for closers.
Given that Mo turns 37 over the course of next year, and that he has already managed to remain at a dominant level for a longer period than most closers, I don't think it's unreasonable (and certainly not heretical ;) ) to expect that his ability to remain at that level is winding down.
Ryan, who is now 29, could conceivably set up for Mariano next year (while being used in perhaps 7-10 save situations), and then be the co-closer, if not the primary closer in subsequent seasons, depending on Mariano's ability to continue to pitch at a very high level, and his desire to continue playing.
Used in that way, Ryan could extend Mariano's careeer.
I think it makes a great deal of sense for everyone involved *IF* Ryan is sincere about not having a problem with setting up for Mo for a year. If Ryan is patient he gets one of the biggest stages in sports.
Make it happen George.
I also don't think the Red Sox will be a big player for Ryan, other than to drive up the price if we are. They have cash locked up in Foulke, who should return to form next year, and a lot of other needs in the bullpen. They may also be in the market for a big bopper depending on if they can unload Manny and what they get back for him.
Stupid Flanders
09-30-05, 10:47 AM
Whether he wants to go to NY or BOS or not, SAYING you want to go to NY or BOS ups your asking price everywhere
I wonder who will command more money Ryan or Wagner?
ShaneTravis
09-30-05, 11:02 AM
I wonder who will command more money Ryan or Wagner?
Wagner wants a 3 year 27 million contract.
I would imagine that is around the neighborhood both are seeking.
Babe Rules
09-30-05, 11:10 AM
Do you belive a Karsay-Deal (4 years and 22 million) or perhaps a little more would sign him?
ShaneTravis
09-30-05, 11:19 AM
Do you belive a Karsay-Deal (4 years and 22 million) or perhaps a little more would sign him?
Giving a 4 year deal to pitchers is risky. Hold onto your prediction of 22 million--that might get it done.
Probably a little north of that number though.
Troy got 2 years @ 12 million
Benitez got 3 years @ 21 million
A little under 6 million a year for four years should get it done. If not, the market went crazy this offseason.
WebsterMulligan
09-30-05, 11:25 AM
Obviously, it's a relative term. I used it in the sense that I don't believe it's reasonable to expect him to accept less than at least than the average annual salary for closers.
Given that Mo turns 37 over the course of next year, and that he has already managed to remain at a dominant level for a longer period than most closers, I don't think it's unreasonable (and certainly not heretical ;) ) to expect that his ability to remain at that level is winding down.
Ryan, who is now 29, could conceivably set up for Mariano next year (while being used in perhaps 7-10 save situations), and then be the co-closer, if not the primary closer in subsequent seasons, depending on Mariano's ability to continue to pitch at a very high level, and his desire to continue playing.
Used in that way, Ryan could extend Mariano's careeer.
This scenario makes perfect sense. The Yankees should make every effort to sign him. I'm guessing he would command atleast 6-8 mil per year, or whatever the going rate is for a good closer. Money should'nt be a sticking point, however.
Shaun4013
09-30-05, 11:30 AM
It would be a great signing, but you better bet lots of teams are going to be after him.
38Special
09-30-05, 11:52 AM
Ryan, Gordon (after resigning), Rivera and JB Cox will be a nice group to go into the playoffs with.
Michaels07
09-30-05, 11:54 AM
Foulke has an option for 2007 that's triggered by him finishing 58 games next year. The odds are that won't happen since he finished 61 games in 2004. Foulke will need to be pitching very well for him to have a chance for that option year.
Ryan has a smart agent. Any player should say good things about NY, Boston and other large markets if they're looking for the most money.
I don't see Boston going after him BTW
Red Sox will make AJ Burnett a priority.
Bob Saccomano
09-30-05, 12:10 PM
I'd like to have him in the BP. The FA market is not particularly deep, and relievers are hard to come by. We all know that this is an area that the Yankees need to shore up, and quickly.
ChinMusic
09-30-05, 12:12 PM
Ryan has a smart agent. Any player should say good things about NY, Boston and other large markets if they're looking for the most money.
Thats the way I read that too. I would be surprised if Ryan were willing to accept 8 million to be a setup guy when he can have the money, the glory and be on a contending team, not the Yankees. I of course would be thrilled if this was sincere, and not just posturing. We would have an heir apparent in place.
ChinMusic
09-30-05, 12:14 PM
This scenario makes perfect sense. The Yankees should make every effort to sign him. I'm guessing he would command atleast 6-8 mil per year, or whatever the going rate is for a good closer. Money should'nt be a sticking point, however.
Yes, but some feel it is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven.
NewEraYanks2527
09-30-05, 12:14 PM
I wonder who will command more money Ryan or Wagner?
I saw Ryan cause if an NL team wanted him his ERA is almost assured to go down, Wagner is untested really in the AL and that can be a deterrent.
mickey mantle
09-30-05, 12:23 PM
this would no doubt be a solid pick-up for the yanks.
juanfatj
09-30-05, 12:30 PM
Red Sox will make AJ Burnett a priority.
I have serious doubts they will. Burnett hasn't shown much the 2nd half and will command alot of money. I look for the sox to go for bullpen help and some hitters after they unload Manny to the Mets. Papelbon will more than likely get a spot in the rotation for them next year. He reminds me of a young Roger.
Yankees13
09-30-05, 12:44 PM
According to the linked Newsday article, Ryan is interested in joining a team that's winning, no matter if it's as a closer or not. If the Yankees can sign him then they need to do that.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spynotes304448494sep30,0,1361477.story?coll=ny-yankees-print
Be wary, the Sox own him.
tatanka9
09-30-05, 01:08 PM
BJ could be one of a very few acquisitions which the Yanks need to make to solidfy the next 2-3 years. A bullpen of Small (LR/SP), Smith, Sturtze, Gordon, Ryan and Mo would give BJ some time to adapt to NY, with a good chance that the Yanks could sift out the chaff in their farm system, come up with a 6th in 2007 and spend the rest of the time building at AA/AAA.
Adding a quality pitching coach (Mazzone comes to mind), a young starting OF, and Seeing if there are any change of scenery deals to be made. Give Wang, Chacon, Pavano, Wright and RJ the starting roles and keep a hand in the Millwod race (especially if Leo M comes aboard).
oh yeah, BJ could be a very big piece to complete the future's puzzle.;)
AlongCameAPrincess
09-30-05, 01:08 PM
Man, I better start sending him fruit baskets! :D
What would Mariano think of this? Has he expressed that he believes his career is nearing the end? I know he's 37 but he's still the best closer in the game IMO. I'm sure he'd love to have Ryan as a set up guy but I don't know how happy he'd be to hear people going on about Ryan being the heir apparent if he feels he has plenty left in the tank.The Red Sox should jump all over Ryan but they won't. With 7 million still tied up in Foulke they can't commit that much money to the back end of their bullpen. They'll just cross their fingers on Foulke and go after the best FA closer of 2006.
Bob Saccomano
09-30-05, 01:12 PM
The Sox may well make a move. Their BP needs retooling and work just like ours. Foulke himself said that if he didn't make Boston's postseason roster, the team was going to trade him. He then expressed displeasure with Boston and the intrusiveness of its media. As he is now injured, out for the season, and not on the postsesaon roster, I think that he might get traded.
The Sox may well make a move. Their BP needs retooling and work just like ours. Foulke himself said that if he didn't make Boston's postseason roster, the team was going to trade him. He then expressed displeasure with Boston and the intrusiveness of its media. As he is now injured, out for the season, and not on the postsesaon roster, I think that he might get traded.
Good point. If someone traded for Foulke and his salary the Red Sox could make a move for Ryan or Wagner. I don't think Foulke is very tradable right now though, not without Boston eating salary which would defeat the purpose.
wileedog
09-30-05, 01:22 PM
What would Mariano think of this? Has he expressed that he believes his career is nearing the end? I know he's 37 but he's still the best closer in the game IMO. I'm sure he'd love to have Ryan as a set up guy but I don't know how happy he'd be to hear people going on about Ryan being the heir apparent if he feels he has plenty left in the tank.
IIRC Mariano talked briefly of retirement before signing his last contract. His statement when he signed it definitely implied he considers it his last contract. It ends after 2006, although there is an option for 2007.
Just supposition on my part, but I really don't think Mo would have a big issue with sharing closing duties in his final year. It would be very out of character for him to gripe about it (although, granted, he's had very little to ever gripe about before). I also think its about 50/50 he takes the option for 2007, depending on what happens in 2006. Mo definitely strikes me from the comments he's made as a guy who doesn't want to hang around too far past his prime.
yogibuck
09-30-05, 01:22 PM
But I'm going to throw some cold water on him.
He doesn't take care of his body. Pretty heavy, doesn't wear his 249 pounds well on his 6'6 frame.
He acts a tad goofy (unprofessional).
He doesn't throw that hard (92-93), if he loses a few mph he may not be as effective (aka Mike Stanton).
All said, I still like him, would offer him a contract. Nothing more than 3 years.
I would still offer arbitration to Gordon as I would love to have both.
I would also go after Wagner as a fall back plan.
rhodehead
09-30-05, 01:37 PM
Be wary, the Sox own him.
I wouldn't say that is accurate. This year, yes, he does have two losses (one just a couple days ago) against them in 8 appearances with an 5.87 ERA. But in his defense, he only gave up runs to Boston in the two games that he took the loss. (2 ER on Sept. 24th, 3 ER on June 2nd when Ortiz took him deep)
Last year, he was 0-1 with 2 Saves against Boston. 13.1 IP, 18K, 3.38 ERA, 0.83 WHIP. Not bad.
Career against Boston he is 1-3 with 4 saves. 47.1 IP, 62K, 3.42 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, .190 BAA.
Why wouldn't he want to pitch for the Yankees? If any AL East team owns him, its the Yankees to the tune of 40.1 IP, 25 ER, 6 HR, 33 BB, 5.53 ERA, 1.65 WHIP. He would be a welcome addition to our pen in '06 in my opinion...
MaximMan121
09-30-05, 01:42 PM
We should offer arbitration to Gordon for several reasons, not the least of which is, if he gets signed by someone else, we'd get a first round draft pick (correct me if that's wrong), which would take the place of the draft pick we're going to have to give up to get Ryan.
stupidpunchline
09-30-05, 01:44 PM
If the Yankees offer Tom Gordon arbitration and let him sign with another team, as I don't think he'd except arbitration where he'd receive set-up money, while at the same time signing BJ Ryan, they'll lose 2 first round draft picks to the Orioles but they'll gain 2 better draft picks assuming the team who signs Gordon is not the White Sox or Cardinals.
Tom Gordon + Two first round draft picks < BJ Ryan + Two better first round draft picks
On the subject of Mo's future as a closer - would it be that unlikely that he might have a good 4-5 years left of solid performance? I'm surpised to see some opinions that he may be nearing the end.
BJ alone won't fix our BP problems. I fear that the Yankees will let go of Gordon and think BJ and Mo alone will carry the BP.
BTW I don't think we're getting BJ.
If I were the Yankees:
Sign Ryan to a big 3-year deal. Tell him to set up only for one or 2 more years, then he steps in to be the closer.
Tom Gordon is getting old, so at least explore other options. Kyle Farnsworth is available, I wouldn't mind seeing him in pinstripes.
So after two years, what do we do with the best closer of all time. Do we cut him? Or is he even signed? Maybe he'll have some "accident."
If Ryan signs here he'll be setup man for a while, as I believe Mo will be able to pitch for at least 5 more years. This guy is 35 years old, has a 1.40 E.R.A. (Would be his best ever), and still throws 96. If he develops a change, he will be able to pitch even longer.
We should offer arbitration to Gordon for several reasons, not the least of which is, if he gets signed by someone else, we'd get a first round draft pick (correct me if that's wrong), which would take the place of the draft pick we're going to have to give up to get Ryan.
Exactly. There's very little chance he'll accept arbitration, as he could become a closer just about anywhere else, and the only caveat of signing free agents (other than the inflated prices) is the loss of a draft pick.
Ryan is the only marquee free agent I would consider signing this off-season, based on age, performance and need.
But I'm going to throw some cold water on him.
He doesn't take care of his body. Pretty heavy, doesn't wear his 249 pounds well on his 6'6 frame.
He acts a tad goofy (unprofessional).
He doesn't throw that hard (92-93), if he loses a few mph he may not be as effective (aka Mike Stanton).
All said, I still like him, would offer him a contract. Nothing more than 3 years.
I would still offer arbitration to Gordon as I would love to have both.
I would also go after Wagner as a fall back plan.
I believe Wagner is the better sign. He throws 100 mph, is better then Ryan, and is proven. I would love to see ortiz try and catch up to to that high cheese.
wileedog
09-30-05, 02:50 PM
So after two years, what do we do with the best closer of all time. Do we cut him? Or is he even signed? Maybe he'll have some "accident."
If Ryan signs here he'll be setup man for a while, as I believe Mo will be able to pitch for at least 5 more years. This guy is 35 years old, has a 1.40 E.R.A. (Would be his best ever), and still throws 96. If he develops a change, he will be able to pitch even longer.
Mo signed a 2 year deal (option for 3rd) and said something to the affect of "I want to thank Mr. Steinbrenner for letting me finish my career as a Yankee."
I think Mo is done after 2007 for sure, and possibly after 2006 depending on if we win this year and/or next.
George Steinbrenner
09-30-05, 02:55 PM
George, use the off-shore accounts for this guy. Our bullpen would be sick.
Im on it. Cashman loves the guy too. I remember a radio interview last year where he said BJ is the best left handed reliever in baseball, and I agree. He will be signed. Money is not an issue with BIG STEIN baby.
DontHateOnNumber2
09-30-05, 02:57 PM
I'd have no problem with Ryan coming to NY, at least he'd wouldn't come to us freshly crappy (see: Stanton, Mike and Embree, Alan). I don't think he;d mind cutting the old hippie hair to join a contender.
wileedog
09-30-05, 02:58 PM
I believe Wagner is the better sign. He throws 100 mph, is better then Ryan, and is proven. I would love to see ortiz try and catch up to to that high cheese.
I like Wagner too, but at 35 next season I sincerely he doubt he agrees to take on a setup role with the Yanks behind Mo for a season or two. Yes Flash did it but he was never the established closer that Wagner was for 9 straight years.
He also is not the answer for the future post-Mo.
Ryan is younger, and if he's patient (and good) for a year or 2 he can be the closer for the Yanks for the next 4-6 years after that (if he pitches well).
Ryan's the obvious choice over Wagner. Their ability is similar enough but Ryan's age covers the closer position for the next 6-7 years.
Either Gordon or Farnsworth will be in the bullpen next year. Not both.
Oh, and one other note: Rivera will retire before he allows himself to decline very much. He's one of those "all about winning types," to the point where he'd lose his mind if he couldn't perform at a top level. I don't mean to suggest that he's of a fragile mindset -- he's obviously shown that he's got impressive fortitude. But he's also an ultra-competitive type, and I don't think he'll try to stick around too long past his prime.
Stupid Flanders
09-30-05, 03:24 PM
I wonder who will command more money Ryan or Wagner?I have no interest in Ryan Wagner
I have no interest in Ryan Wagner
I have no interest in Honus Wagner, come to think of it.
Billy Wagner, however, is at least worth some thought.
Sierra Mist
09-30-05, 04:05 PM
this is good news, for the past few seasons all of our lefties had been very bad
George Steinbrenner
09-30-05, 04:22 PM
We will resign Gordon and sign BJ Ryan. Then we have 2 competent set up men to bridge to The Great One.
PerfectCone
09-30-05, 04:59 PM
The Yankees need to make this signing for one reason, they are going to need a new closer at some point and he is the best one available. Seriously guys, Mo is not going to last forever. He's already lived past the dominant closers shelf life.
The Yankees need to make this signing for one reason, they are going to need a new closer at some point and he is the best one available. Seriously guys, Mo is not going to last forever. He's already lived past the dominant closers shelf life.
What's more, Mo has pitched an extra season's worth of October baseball, as opposed to other pitchers. That will catch up to him at some point.
AMYanks
09-30-05, 05:09 PM
That said, if Torre returns, given his preference for handedness over ability (see Heredia and Embree), signing Ryan is almost as important as overhauling the OF defense.
That's a good point. However, if you realize how much he uses poor left-handed relievers (Embree, Stanton this year), he could seriously overwork Ryan.
Sillycon
09-30-05, 05:24 PM
The Yankees need to make this signing for one reason, they are going to need a new closer at some point and he is the best one available. Seriously guys, Mo is not going to last forever. He's already lived past the dominant closers shelf life.
He won't last forever but I think he could last for awhile. While he may have logged a lot of innings, he hasn't strained himself as other pitchers might have. He have a very fluid pitching motion which seems to be easy on his arm. He also hasn't strained his arm by using breaking pitches. So it wouldn't surprise me much if his cutter/velocity doesn't deteriorate much over the next few years.
BillBuckner
09-30-05, 05:36 PM
We NEED him. George better write him a blank check.
IMissBillyM
09-30-05, 08:20 PM
Sign him!!!!!!!!!....A lefty/righty closing forum?..It can't get better than that..Resign Gordon..sign BJ..It dont' get better than that
27IsNext
09-30-05, 08:23 PM
I wouldn't mind signing him as the set-up man/co-closer. It'd be even better if we could offer Gordon arby, and watch him decline. (Offsetting the draft pick issue.)
EDIT: We still MUST have Matt Smith as a LOOGY. Our pen would be sick.
rivera,s cutter
09-30-05, 08:29 PM
we should sign him immediatly ,sturtz gordon ryan rivera ,i m just thinking WOW
IMissBillyM
09-30-05, 08:34 PM
Wow minus Sturtze!
Steph19
09-30-05, 08:35 PM
By the playoffs, imagine a bullpen of JB Cox, BJ Ryan, Mariano Rivera, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, Matt Smith and maybe an Aaron Small for long relief.
I don't even want to think about it yet 'cuz it's probably not happening.
IMissBillyM
09-30-05, 08:42 PM
By the playoffs, imagine a bullpen of JB Cox, BJ Ryan, Mariano Rivera, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, Matt Smith and maybe an Aaron Small for long relief.
I don't even want to think about it yet 'cuz it's probably not happening.
All sounds like a fairy tale, except for Sturtze..We don't need him
Elevation
09-30-05, 09:00 PM
The Orioles should be able to afford BJ Ryan, from all the revenue Camden Yards gets when the Yankee fans fill the stadium up each time NYY plays Baltimore.
Sierra Mist
09-30-05, 09:34 PM
can we trade for BJ Ryan for the Boston series like they did w/ Stanton???
Please do not include the words "fantastic" and "Sturtze" in the same sentence, please.
That's not entirely fair. He's been one of the only reliable relievers for the Yankees the majority of the season. I think he's probably injured given the way he's been used lately. :(
Top of my list, probably even more crucial than an upgrade at CF. Sign him!
TommyK8
10-01-05, 02:09 AM
Of course Ryan setting up sandwiched between Gordon and Rivera sounds great. But don't forget that Ryan has been a dominant A.L. closer this year and has struck out 100 batters in about 70 innings. He will command top dollar, translated, "closer's money." The market set last year as previously mentioned is Benitez at $7 million, Foulke about $7 million, Percival $6 million. At 29, Ryan will command in the range of $8 million per year. This is more than twice as much as Gordon makes. No team has ever given a set-up man this kind of money. If the Yankees decide to do so, he will probably be in the Bronx next year, but I don't think he will settle for "set-up man money" when he can clearly get much more.
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 02:13 AM
I'll take him to set up Mo in a heartbeat.
The real quesition is, are the Yankees interested in getting BJ? Does anyone think that the Yankees would want BJ?
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 02:54 AM
The real quesition is, are the Yankees interested in getting BJ? Does anyone think that the Yankees would want BJ?
I think that the Yanks need a stud for the pen, regardless of cost. They also need protection in case Mo goes down and also realizing that Mo is getting on in years. Mo will be 37 next year, BJ 30.
They are going to have to consider it after what this pen has done the last 2 years. If they don't, I'll be pissed.
I think that the Yanks need a stud for the pen, regardless of cost. They also need protection in case Mo goes down and also realizing that Mo is getting on in years. Mo will be 37 next year, BJ 30.
They are going to have to consider it after what this pen has done the last 2 years. If they don't, I'll be pissed.
I guess I should've put an "a" before typing BJ.
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 02:56 AM
I guess I should've put an "a" before typing BJ.
:lol: well that goes without saying
:lol: well that goes without saying
In all seriousness the Yankees would be stupid to not treat him as a priority.
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 02:59 AM
In all seriousness the Yankees would be stupid to not treat him as a priority.
Over CF, IMO. It'll be nice to upgrade there, but our problems are pitching.
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 03:01 AM
That said, 99% of FA's use the Yanks for leverage.
That said, 99% of FA's use the Yanks for leverage.
Carl Pavano was one unfortunate exception.
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 03:09 AM
Bigger than this fight for the division will be the fight between the Yanks and Sox this winter over middle relief.
Dooley Womack
10-01-05, 03:10 AM
Carl Pavano was one unfortunate exception.
Next year I'll just be happy with him as a # 5 to give us innings. Anything above and beyond will be a bonus.
Next year I'll just be happy with him as a # 5 to give us innings. Anything above and beyond will be a bonus.
Its really sad that he's gonna be looking over his shoulder at Aaron Small waiting to take his place.
JonathanLB
10-01-05, 03:37 AM
I know Rivera cannot remain dominant forever, and he can't avoid aging, but can you imagine the YANKEES without Rivera? I can't. As long as I've been a fan Rivera has been the closer. Well, at least as long as I've been a very active fan following the games on a daily basis.
Rivera is The Man. My favorite Yankee. I just can't bear the thought of him not being our closer, ugg.
JeffWeaverFan
10-01-05, 06:36 AM
Offer Gordon arbitration and hope he rejects it, getting a draft pick. Then sign Ryan.
Yanks4eva1
10-01-05, 06:39 AM
George, use the off-shore accounts for this guy. Our bullpen would be sick.
:lol:
:lol:
:lol:
He'd make a great addition. Dee
NYDCYankee
10-04-05, 12:39 AM
I don't know if anyone saw this but Ken Rosenthal addressed the BJ to the Yanks story
Ryan also would be willing to become a setup man in the right circumstance, and one of his teammates says Ryan would love to assume that role for the Yankees.
If the Yankees re-sign Tom Gordon, another potential free agent, they could have a left-right combination in front of closer Mariano Rivera similar to the one they had several years ago with lefthander Mike Stanton and righthander Jeff Nelson.
This would make me happy.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=22477
JeffWeaverFan
10-04-05, 01:56 AM
I don't know if anyone saw this but Ken Rosenthal addressed the BJ to the Yanks story
This would make me happy.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=22477
If Ryan would actually setup for the best closer in the game, we better get him over here. We have a lot of money coming off the books, so we should be able to afford the guy. BJ Ryan in this bullpen would be just filthy.
BobbyMurcerFan
10-04-05, 02:11 AM
Gordon gets NO RESPECT around here.
Signing Ryan is a necessity because Gordon's and Mo's workloads are going to have to be lessened if they are going to remain effective. Particularly Gordon, who seems to be really hurting right now.
NYDCYankee
10-04-05, 02:20 AM
Gordon gets NO RESPECT around here.
Says who? I want BJ and Gordon on the squad next year. That would be lethal and give Sturtze less of a chance to screw things up.
BoSox37
10-04-05, 07:57 AM
Worth noting, Ryan struggled vs. both BOS and NYY this season:
vs. BOS: 0-2, 5.87 ERA, 2 for 3 SVO. 8.2 IP, 11 hits, 5 R, 5 ER, 1 HR, 1 BB, 8 K, .324 OBA.
vs NYY: 1-1, 6.23 ERA, 1-2 SVO, 9.2 IP, 9 hits, 7 R, 6 ER, 1 HR, 6 BB, 11 K, .273 OBA.
At YS, he pitched 3 innings giving up 6 hits, 7 R, 6 ER, 1 HR, 4 BB, 6 K.
Obviously sample size is an issue but he struggled against both teams in 2005. It seems like he only struggled against both teams this year, from 2002-04 posted a 3.38 ERA vs. BOX and a 3.91 ERA vs. NYY.
DontHateOnNumber2
10-04-05, 08:03 AM
If Ryan would actually setup for the best closer in the game, we better get him over here. We have a lot of money coming off the books, so we should be able to afford the guy. BJ Ryan in this bullpen would be just filthy.
We have money coming in, I just hope it doesn't ALL go to Ryan in some crappy bidding war.
DontHateOnNumber2
10-04-05, 08:04 AM
Says who? I want BJ and Gordon on the squad next year. That would be lethal and give Sturtze less of a chance to screw things up.
Edit: It would give Sturtze more rest and opportunity to be put in big-play/long relief situations that he'd be needed for. :D
DontHateOnNumber2
10-04-05, 08:06 AM
Gordon gets NO RESPECT around here.
Bull. Crap. Flash is my boy and I let it be known that he is the guy before Mo. I feel confident when he comes out, unless Manny is up and Flash is pitching up in the zone. Otherwise, Gordon is almost a lock to get his job done. Plus, his Queen-performed "Flash Gordon" music kicks ass.
Snatch Catch
10-04-05, 08:17 AM
I would love to see him on the Yanks, although I think he's going to be pretty...pretty...pretty expensive.
Snatch Catch
10-04-05, 08:18 AM
Don't know if its been said yet, but he exactly what this staff needs.
I mean, Wang and Johnson would probably never be bigger than if they had the comfort of knowing a good BJ was waiting when they were told by Joe to hit the showers.
Then after BJ was finished, they could get some Mo if it was necessary.
IronCaballo4
10-04-05, 09:32 AM
Don't know if its been said yet, but he exactly what this staff needs.
I mean, Wang and Johnson would probably never be bigger than if they had the comfort of knowing a good BJ was waiting when they were told by Joe to hit the showers.
Then after BJ was finished, they could get some Mo if it was necessary.
we definitely need to sign "The Job".....aka "El Trabajo" :lol:
yanksphan
10-04-05, 09:42 AM
Don't know if its been said yet, but he exactly what this staff needs.
I mean, Wang and Johnson would probably never be bigger than if they had the comfort of knowing a good BJ was waiting when they were told by Joe to hit the showers.
Then after BJ was finished, they could get some Mo if it was necessary.
Money Snatch. Money. :lol:
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-04-05, 11:56 AM
Pay him whatever he wants. If its closer money, than pay him that. He is so desperately needed, not to mention only being 29 makes him a baby on this team...
metalyank
10-04-05, 11:59 AM
Don't know if its been said yet, but he exactly what this staff needs.
I mean, Wang and Johnson would probably never be bigger than if they had the comfort of knowing a good BJ was waiting when they were told by Joe to hit the showers.
Then after BJ was finished, they could get some Mo if it was necessary.
Brilliant. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
flymick24
10-04-05, 12:27 PM
Don't know if its been said yet, but he exactly what this staff needs.
I mean, Wang and Johnson would probably never be bigger than if they had the comfort of knowing a good BJ was waiting when they were told by Joe to hit the showers.
Then after BJ was finished, they could get some Mo if it was necessary.
holy sh*t, i just spit up my soda
The price for Ryan will be sky high. If George wants him he must be delighted with all the money coming off the payroll.
Stupid Flanders
10-04-05, 02:17 PM
Wow minus Sturtze!ok this made me laugh
ryanthe13th
10-04-05, 02:19 PM
Ryan > Gordon > Rivera
That is a GREAT 7, 8, 9.
Snatch Catch
10-04-05, 02:24 PM
Ryan > Gordon > Rivera
That is a GREAT 7, 8, 9.
You might want to be careful with the "Greater Than" sign in the future. ;)
cliftonite
10-04-05, 03:51 PM
Ryan > Gordon > Rivera
That is a GREAT 7, 8, 9.
Rivera >*
fixed ;)
sugmasterflex
10-04-05, 05:37 PM
If Ryan signs for closer money, wouldn't Gordon ask for the same? Would the Yanks be willing to sign *two* set-up arms for closer cash?
PirateChief
10-04-05, 05:39 PM
If Ryan signs for closer money, wouldn't Gordon ask for the same? Would the Yanks be willing to sign *two* set-up arms for closer cash?
Seriously, after this year, all I can say is it ain't my cash. Sturtze in the sixth and who cares for the fifth because...well, if you need a reliever in the fifth (under normal circumstances), either Leiter is pitching or you are in trouble anyway. Small or Wright or even Wang can fill that role.
Danny T's Biceps
10-04-05, 05:44 PM
Does he use his left arm to throw the baseball? Throw suitcases of money at the young man. We gotta get us one of them guys.
Seriously, we want. Oh, do we want.
nycdoc999
10-04-05, 05:47 PM
Why would the Yanks sign two more guys for closer cash?
Well, because they would have learned that a great bullpen makes up for average starting pitching, and that great pens win championships so it's reasonable to "overpay" for them. Especially if you have the resources the Yankees do.
It's gonna cost at least $3m/yr for a dependable lefty anyway - why not give BJ $5m/y and sign the BEST lefty out there who can get RHH out as well? Seems a whole lot better use of the financial resources the team has. Also, there's no guarantee that (a) Gordon will be resigned and (b) Gordon will hold up for 1-2 more years given his age and history of arm trouble. Limiting his work load with another dependable reliever does more to ensure his effectiveness and longevity....
IMO, signing BJ Ryan is a MUST this off-season, no matter what happens this post-season. It is the biggest glaring weakness on the team over the past few years, and will save Mo and Gordon down the line....
Imagine - a game bein over in the 6th and 7th innings instead of in the 9th. THink back to Rivera as a bridge to Wettland in 1996. That was such a comfort! it will be worth it to have that peace of mind again - no matter what it takes to sign Ryan...
While they're at it, they should sign Burnett too. Plug Small into the pen as the long guy, and the pitching staff looks something like:
Johnson
Mussina
Burnett
Pavano
Wang
Small
Sturtze
Gordon
Ryan
Rivera
The 11th spot could go to someone like Wright if he's still here (I for one am hoping he's LONG GONE) or to someone like DePaula or Proctor. Garbage time/filler stuff that won't cost alot.....
We have that staff and we're on our way to winning the division for the 9th consecutive year. No doubt about it.
:)
yanksphan
10-04-05, 05:50 PM
If Ryan signs for closer money, wouldn't Gordon ask for the same? Would the Yanks be willing to sign *two* set-up arms for closer cash?
We have the best SS in baseball playing 3B - and you ask this kind of question? ;)
27IsNext
10-04-05, 06:11 PM
Sign Ryan and offer Gordon arby. If he accepts, fine. If he walks, we get two draft picks, one being negated for the signing of Ryan. (I'm hoping Gordon declines here.)
Johnson
Mussina
Pavano
Matsuzaka
Wang/Chacon
Wang/Chacon
Henn
Matt Smith (LOOGY)
Sturtze
Ryan
Rivera
sugmasterflex
10-04-05, 06:45 PM
We have the best SS in baseball playing 3B - and you ask this kind of question? ;)
True, but we also know the Karsay signing (closer $) didn't go as planned. I would take Ryan over Gordon, definitely, but I don't know if the Yanks will have both next year.
parkerstrong
10-04-05, 06:51 PM
Why would the Yanks sign two more guys for closer cash?
Well, because they would have learned that a great bullpen makes up for average starting pitching, and that great pens win championships so it's reasonable to "overpay" for them. Especially if you have the resources the Yankees do.
It's gonna cost at least $3m/yr for a dependable lefty anyway - why not give BJ $5m/y and sign the BEST lefty out there who can get RHH out as well? Seems a whole lot better use of the financial resources the team has. Also, there's no guarantee that (a) Gordon will be resigned and (b) Gordon will hold up for 1-2 more years given his age and history of arm trouble. Limiting his work load with another dependable reliever does more to ensure his effectiveness and longevity....
IMO, signing BJ Ryan is a MUST this off-season, no matter what happens this post-season. It is the biggest glaring weakness on the team over the past few years, and will save Mo and Gordon down the line....
Imagine - a game bein over in the 6th and 7th innings instead of in the 9th. THink back to Rivera as a bridge to Wettland in 1996. That was such a comfort! it will be worth it to have that peace of mind again - no matter what it takes to sign Ryan...
While they're at it, they should sign Burnett too. Plug Small into the pen as the long guy, and the pitching staff looks something like:
Johnson
Mussina
Burnett
Pavano
Wang
Small
Sturtze
Gordon
Ryan
Rivera
The 11th spot could go to someone like Wright if he's still here (I for one am hoping he's LONG GONE) or to someone like DePaula or Proctor. Garbage time/filler stuff that won't cost alot.....
We have that staff and we're on our way to winning the division for the 9th consecutive year. No doubt about it.
:)
Dont forget about Chacon. He has done well and is only 27. I look foward to what he can do with a full season here. He will be a big piece of the puzzle for us in the future.
In regards to Ryan, I am speechless. I cant say enough about how nasty he is. It would be a great move if we sign him...and maybe steal him away from Cashman!!! That could get George's checkbook open!
NYDCYankee
10-04-05, 06:54 PM
True, but we also know the Karsay signing (closer $) didn't go as planned. I would take Ryan over Gordon, definitely, but I don't know if the Yanks will have both next year.
Speaking of Karsay I guess his contract comes off the books this year as well.
Jeter Kid
10-04-05, 06:55 PM
I Actually Laughed Out Loud!! Lawl!
PirateChief
10-04-05, 07:03 PM
I would take Chacon over Burnett or Wang, and Pavano truthfully but there is money invested in him.
ICEBERG18
10-06-05, 05:18 PM
Orioles closer B.J. Ryan has no plans to return to Baltimore and will explore free agency. .
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/white/2005-10-05-leading-off_x.htm
Daisuke Matsuzaka (If posted)
BJ Ryan
Brian Giles
The Yankees will most likely be involved with those 3 names in the offseason.(Not counting they're own players.)
SoCal Pinstriper
10-06-05, 05:20 PM
Orioles closer B.J. Ryan has no plans to return to Baltimore and will explore free agency. .
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/white/2005-10-05-leading-off_x.htm
Daisuke Matsuzaka
BJ Ryan
Brian Giles
The Yankees will most likely be involved with those 3 names in the offseason.(Not counting they're own players.)That would please me as long as Burnett is not in the group.
Epy7280
10-06-05, 05:47 PM
Orioles closer B.J. Ryan has no plans to return to Baltimore and will explore free agency. .
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/white/2005-10-05-leading-off_x.htm
Daisuke Matsuzaka
BJ Ryan
Brian Giles
The Yankees will most likely be involved with those 3 names in the offseason.(Not counting they're own players.)
who is Daisuke Matsuzaka?
ICEBERG18
10-06-05, 05:50 PM
who is Daisuke Matsuzaka?
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=69006
Epy7280
10-06-05, 05:51 PM
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=69006
oh yea i read that thread before :P
well if we get him we should move him to our minors and groom him for the majors instead of throwing him right in the mix of things.
WebsterMulligan
10-06-05, 05:56 PM
who is Daisuke Matsuzaka?
The second coming of Hideki Irabu?
ShaneTravis
10-06-05, 05:58 PM
Orioles closer B.J. Ryan has no plans to return to Baltimore and will explore free agency. .
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/white/2005-10-05-leading-off_x.htm
Daisuke Matsuzaka (If posted)
BJ Ryan
Brian Giles
The Yankees will most likely be involved with those 3 names in the offseason.(Not counting they're own players.)
I have been wanting Giles to play here for the last few years.
Career .299 .413 .542 .955
2005 .301 .423 .483 .906
Giles LF
Matsui CF
Sheff RF
He is 34 though. And Matsui in Center is not all that attractive. But baring a Hunter trade or something unforeseen...I don't see the Yanks getting a center fielder next year.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-06-05, 06:40 PM
I have been wanting Giles to play here for the last few years.
Career .299 .413 .542 .955
2005 .301 .423 .483 .906
Giles LF
Matsui CF
Sheff RF
He is 34 though. And Matsui in Center is not all that attractive. But baring a Hunter trade or something unforeseen...I don't see the Yanks getting a center fielder next year.
We need a really CFer. In my mind Jacque Jones and Giles should both be signed. Sheff should switch to DHing duties mostly....
27IsNext
10-06-05, 08:53 PM
The second coming of Hideki Irabu?
God has spoken!
27IsNext
10-06-05, 09:00 PM
Trade for Carl Crawford or one of the TB outfielders, or barring that sign Jac Jones.
Sign Diasuke Matsuzaka. (Costs no draft picks!)
Sign Bengie Molina.
Sign B.J. Ryan. Offer Gordon arby, if he declines, trade Posada for a good middle reliever. If he accepts, trade Posada for something else of value.
I Love Wang
10-06-05, 09:10 PM
He's 34/39 for saves and 1-4. I think hes a tremendous relief pitcher, but to say hes proven based on one year as a closer with "good" results
I guess its depends on your definition of proven. His numbers are better than Gordon's in the south side (the year prior to our signing him), but not by much. Gordon did not get Rivera-like money.
Ryan had a 2.43era this year, with a 1.14 WHIP and a 12.80 K/9. His K/9 last year was 12.62, and the prior year it was 11.27. He's a much better pitcher than Gordon, and he's healthier and younger. He is definitely a proven reliever. I wouldn't give him Rivera money, but I'd give him Keith Foulke money.
keithf1
10-06-05, 09:14 PM
Trade Posada & Jaret Wright for a young CF + prospect.
I Love Wang
10-06-05, 09:22 PM
Trade Posada & Jaret Wright for a young CF + prospect.
Wright has less trade value than you do.
Ryan had a 2.43era this year, with a 1.14 WHIP and a 12.80 K/9. His K/9 last year was 12.62, and the prior year it was 11.27. He's a much better pitcher than Gordon, and he's healthier and younger. He is definitely a proven reliever. I wouldn't give him Rivera money, but I'd give him Keith Foulke money.
Ryan is definitely better than Gordon, but until he has to come through at nutcracker time for a team like the Yankees, I don't think you can say that he is much better. I do agree that he needs to be the Yankees' #1 or #1A off season priority.
I Love Wang
10-06-05, 10:00 PM
Ryan is definitely better than Gordon, but until he has to come through at nutcracker time for a team like the Yankees, I don't think you can say that he is much better. I do agree that he needs to be the Yankees' #1 or #1A off season priority.
Come through at a nutcracker time? Like Gordon in last year's postseason? I think Flash is a great pitcher, but everything about Ryan tells me he'll be more successful.
Come through at a nutcracker time? Like Gordon in last year's postseason? I think Flash is a great pitcher, but everything about Ryan tells me he'll be more successful.
Gordon pitched 90.2 innings last season, 16 more than he had the year before, and significantly more than he ever had since he beame a reliever. In other words, he was burnt by the postseason.
I already said that Ryan is better at this point, his meltdown in the last week of the season against Boston notwithstanding.
I Love Wang
10-06-05, 10:07 PM
Gordon pitched 90.2 innings last season, 16 more than he had the year before, and significantly more than he ever had since he beame a reliever. In other words, he was burnt by the postseason.
I already said that Ryan is better at this point, his meltdown in the last week of the season against Boston notwithstanding.
While Gordon's failure to perform last year was probably a result of his overuse, he certainly hasn't demonstrated himself to be "clutch." How many innings did Mariano throw in 96 before he was lights-out in the postseason?
JeffWeaverFan
10-06-05, 10:11 PM
While Gordon's failure to perform last year was probably a result of his overuse, he certainly hasn't demonstrated himself to be "clutch." How many innings did Mariano throw in 96 before he was lights-out in the postseason?
I do agree with you that Gordon does not have a great postseason trackrecord, but the comparison with Rivera does not hold for two reasons. 1. In 1996, Rivera was a 26 years old while Flash was 36 last year. 2. Mariano is a God.
To answer the question, Rivera threw (and I'm amazed by this now that I look it up - I knew it was a lot, just not this many) 107 and 2/3rds innings. He struck ou 130 that year. Wow.
While Gordon's failure to perform last year was probably a result of his overuse, he certainly hasn't demonstrated himself to be "clutch." How many innings did Mariano throw in 96 before he was lights-out in the postseason?
Mariano was superhuman. Mere mortals should not be compared to him.
It should be noted, however, that without Gordon in the 2004 regular season (ERA: 2.21, K/BB: 4.17, BAA: .180, OPSA: .520), the Yankees may not have won the division.
Matsui55
10-06-05, 10:15 PM
While Gordon's failure to perform last year was probably a result of his overuse, he certainly hasn't demonstrated himself to be "clutch." How many innings did Mariano throw in 96 before he was lights-out in the postseason?
This is a "red herring" argument.
Gordon, like Mo, came up as a starter. However, Gordon transitioned to the pen many years ago. For him to be setting career high marks in innings at his age (late 30's) and after about 10 years in the pen is overwork.
In 1996, Rivera has JUST BEEN converted into a reliever. In fact, he had started almost 20 games in 95 for the Yanks. Therefore, his arm was quite ready for an extended workload. 100+innings at his age (early 20's) and after several years of being a regular starter was not a heavy workload at all.
Therefore to even use Mo's 1996 season to say that Gordon's 2004 season did not amount to overuse is not only misleading, but has no factual relation or basis in the other.
LloydBanks
10-06-05, 10:16 PM
I'd go after BJ Ryan. He'd def solve our no lefty problem.
WebsterMulligan
10-06-05, 10:21 PM
This is a "red herring" argument.
Gordon, like Mo, came up as a starter. However, Gordon transitioned to the pen many years ago. For him to be setting career high marks in innings at his age (late 30's) and after about 10 years in the pen is overwork.
In 1996, Rivera has JUST BEEN converted into a reliever. In fact, he had started almost 20 games in 95 for the Yanks. Therefore, his arm was quite ready for an extended workload. 100+innings at his age (early 20's) and after several years of being a regular starter was not a heavy workload at all.
Therefore to even use Mo's 1996 season to say that Gordon's 2004 season did not amount to overuse is not only misleading, but has no factual relation or basis in the other.
Mo started only 10 games for the Yanks, in 19 total appearances that year.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riverma01.shtml
Mo started only 10 games for the Yanks, in 19 total appearances that year.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riverma01.shtml
His point is that Mo was a starter in the minors:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/mariano-rivera.shtml
WebsterMulligan
10-06-05, 10:40 PM
His point is that Mo was a starter in the minors:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/mariano-rivera.shtml
Yes, indeed. I was simply pointing out his error, in terms of the number of games Mo had started in '95.
Matsui55
10-06-05, 10:59 PM
Yes, indeed. I was simply pointing out his error, in terms of the number of games Mo had started in '95.
Low. Neexxxttt.
I Love Wang
10-06-05, 11:07 PM
Mariano was superhuman. Mere mortals should not be compared to him.
It should be noted, however, that without Gordon in the 2004 regular season (ERA: 2.21, K/BB: 4.17, BAA: .180, OPSA: .520), the Yankees may not have won the division.
If they'd had Ryan, they probably still would have.
I'm not saying Gordon is a choker or a bad pitcher or anything of that nature. I'm simply saying that Gordon can't be categorized as "clutch," if you believe in such a thing, and that Ryan, as he stands now, is a better pitcher across the board.
If they'd had Ryan, they probably still would have.
I'm not saying Gordon is a choker or a bad pitcher or anything of that nature. I'm simply saying that Gordon can't be categorized as "clutch," if you believe in such a thing, and that Ryan, as he stands now, is a better pitcher across the board.
I don't disagree with any of that. It's just that a lot of people here take Gordon for granted, although it's pretty clear that you're not one of them.
WebsterMulligan
10-06-05, 11:41 PM
Low. Neexxxttt.
My apologies, if you think I was being condescending.
That was'nt my intention. :)
diehardyanksfan26
10-07-05, 12:29 AM
Gordon for the 7th, Ryan for the 8th...Mo for the 9th...Small as our #1 long reliever...we got ourselves a bullpen
Gordon for the 7th, Ryan for the 8th...Mo for the 9th...Small as our #1 long reliever...we got ourselves a bullpen
Gordon a wanabee closer or starter would accept the seventh inning role? NEVER, NEVER.
I Love Wang
10-07-05, 12:01 PM
Gordon for the 7th, Ryan for the 8th...Mo for the 9th...Small as our #1 long reliever...we got ourselves a bullpen
Gordon is not going to re-sign to be a middle reliever again.
ICEBERG18
10-07-05, 12:26 PM
Gordon is not going to re-sign to be a middle reliever again.
Fine, give me the two 1st round picks and Ryan. ;)
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-05, 12:34 PM
Gordon is not going to re-sign to be a middle reliever again.
Yes, he will. I remember reading somewhere that he has come to grips with his role and is happy setting up for Mo...
27IsNext
10-07-05, 12:41 PM
Gordon is not going to re-sign to be a middle reliever again.
Good. That means we can get two first round draft picks, one being negated for signing Ryan. Then we could sign Molina and trade Posada for a middle reliever.
Good. That means we can get two first round draft picks, one being negated for signing Ryan. Then we could sign Molina and trade Posada for a middle reliever.
Which team is going to take Po's contract?
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-05, 12:48 PM
Which team is going to take Po's contract?
Assuming we eat some of the contract. There would be many suitors for one of the better hitting catchers in the game...
EDIT: Maybe the Mets, Anaheim, or Cubs to start, there is always someone...
27IsNext
10-07-05, 12:49 PM
Which team is going to take Po's contract?
Point taken. Still, despite the decline, he's still one of the top 5-10 offensive catchers in the league. If we eat most of the contract, I think we could make it work. Remember, Arizona wanted him for Johnson originally.
This is the last year, IMO, that we could get any value for Posada. Even if he is a 10-5 player (does anyone know for sure?), signing Molina would tell him that he could either accept a trade to where he wants (and who wants him), or stay here as a DH.
ICEBERG18
10-07-05, 12:51 PM
Which team is going to take Po's contract?
None, and he's about to be a 10/5 guy.
Point taken. Still, despite the decline, he's still one of the top 5-10 offensive catchers in the league. If we eat most of the contract, I think we could make it work. Remember, Arizona wanted him for Johnson originally.
This is the last year, IMO, that we could get any value for Posada. Even if he is a 10-5 player (does anyone know for sure?), signing Molina would tell him that he could either accept a trade to where he wants (and who wants him), or stay here as a DH.
It's a lot of eating:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
Jorge Posada c
5 years/$51M (2002-06), plus $12M 07 club option
$15M signing bonus ($1.5M in 02, $2M in 03, $3M in 04, $4M in 05, $4.5M in 06)
02:$4M, 03:$5M, 04:$6M, 05:$8M, 06:$9M, 07:$12M club option ($4M buyout)
07 option guaranteed with 330 PAs as a catcher from 2004 to 2006
if option is exercised, Posada receives the buyout in 2008
Posada has right to opt out after 2004 season
1 year/$4.05M (2001), avoided arbitration 1/02
drafted 1990 (24- )
agents: Alan Nero, Luis Espinel
ML service: 8.085
I Love Wang
10-07-05, 12:57 PM
None, and he's about to be a 10/5 guy.
Posada hasn't spent 10 years in the majors.
costanza35
10-07-05, 01:03 PM
i don't think it should be assumed that gordon will re-sign next year, especially if ryan were to come on board. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned farnsworth will be available, i love that guy's attitude and he throws gas, he would be worth a look.
LuckyLopez
10-07-05, 01:09 PM
Yes, he will. I remember reading somewhere that he has come to grips with his role and is happy setting up for Mo...
That's setting up for Mo. People are suggesting that he should set of for Ryan. I think its fair to believe that either Gordon or Ryan would be ok setting up for Mariano (for Ryan, it being a short term thing) but then to push one of them back to the 7th setting up for the other? I can't imagine that.
I Love Wang
10-07-05, 01:11 PM
I'd rather have Ryan than Gordon anyway.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 01:36 PM
Lots of offtopic stuff in this thread, so Id like to chime in with:
1. If Matsuzaka is signed, I dont see anyway that Pavano stays on the team. Since Detroit was one of the teams interested in Pavano, and Minnesota may want to move Hunter due to his contract, what about a 3way with Pavano+$ to detroit, young cheap Bonderman to Minnesota, and Hunter to NY? The other trade I could see, would be with TampaBay. Tampa Bays greatest need is pitching and I dont think that they could attract the free agent pitcher signing they need. They also have a glut of outfielders with Baldelli coming back and Gaithright. What about Pavano+Cabrera +$ for carl crawford?
2. Does anyone know if posting money counts toward the luxury tax? If not it makes more sense to pursue Matsuzaka rather than Burnett, because for tax purposes you are getting a $10 million pitcher for 5-6 million.
3. Bengie Molina doesnt stay healthy enough to deal away Posada. Would Ramon Hernandez be a better choice? The other thing is that it would not be as expensive as imagined to sign Hernandez and keep Posada for 1 more year. If we didnt sign a FA catcher and went with Posada for the rest of his contract, it would cost about 31.5 million to fill the catcher position for '06 and '07( Posada '06 13.5 mill + '07 12 mill + '08 buyout 4 mill + backup catcher for 2 years 2mill). The down side to this is that Posada with his poor catching skills is on the field. If you signed Hernandez for 7 million per, you could limit Posada's '06 ABs so that his option is not vested for '07 saving 12 million. Total 32.5 million for '06+'07(14 million for Hernandez for 06 and 07 + 13.5 million(Posada salary/sign bonus '06) + 4 million(buyout Posada for '07) + 1 million( backup catcher to Hernadez in '07). Much, much, much better IMHO. 1 million dollars more and we have a real defensive catcher, who can handle a pitching staff, and who might be comparable to Posada offensively moving forward. Also you got a great switch hitting bench player for '06 in Posada.
4. Sign BJ Ryan. Sign Gordon 1 year + an option for '07. Our shortcomings over the last several years which should be obvious has been the lack of a deep bullpen. I would like to see a bullpen next year of Mo, Gordon, Ryan, Small, Sturze(or Farnsworth) and Proctor( love his K/9 and I think his BB and HRs will improve; want to see him 1 more year, rather than Sturze).
5. Lastly does anyone know how much money we are working with next year? We save 28 million on Brown, Williams and Sierra. Think Matsui will get a $4 million raise and I think Bernie is back as 4th outfielder for 3 million. So already down to net savings of 21 million. Does anyone know the other built in raises for Giambi, Johson, Mussina, Jeter et al?
ChinMusic, 3 million for Bernie is over paying him. I hope the Yankees don't bring him back because he has no value to this team.
ShaneTravis
10-07-05, 01:47 PM
Chin---here is a rough estimation of money off the books at the end of this year.
SP Kevin Brown (15 mil)
CF Bernie Williams (12 mil)
CF Hideki Matsui (8 mil)
SP Al Leiter (400k)
1B Tino Martinez (2.75 mil)
SP Alan Embree (300k)
DH Ruben Sierra (1.5 mil)
C John Flaherty (800k)
SP Hideo Nomo (300k)
IF Rey Sanchez (600k)
RP Tom Gordon (3.75 mil)
SP Darrell May (3.225 mil)
RP Felix Rodriguez (3.15 mil)
A complete list is http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2004_01_04_dugoutdollars_archive.html
Roughly 51 million off the books.
Maybe more---I am not sure on the particulars of Karsay and Quantrill---if we sent money there or ate it.
Dugoutdollars say our payroll next year is....in millions.
$ 144.55
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-05, 01:52 PM
That's setting up for Mo. People are suggesting that he should set of for Ryan. I think its fair to believe that either Gordon or Ryan would be ok setting up for Mariano (for Ryan, it being a short term thing) but then to push one of them back to the 7th setting up for the other? I can't imagine that.
I don't think its that hard to fathom. Assuming he would be recieving closer money with the opportunity to eventually take over the closer role in a couple years, I can see that happening...
27IsNext
10-07-05, 01:54 PM
It's a lot of eating:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
Jorge Posada c
5 years/$51M (2002-06), plus $12M 07 club option
$15M signing bonus ($1.5M in 02, $2M in 03, $3M in 04, $4M in 05, $4.5M in 06)
02:$4M, 03:$5M, 04:$6M, 05:$8M, 06:$9M, 07:$12M club option ($4M buyout)
07 option guaranteed with 330 PAs as a catcher from 2004 to 2006
if option is exercised, Posada receives the buyout in 2008
Posada has right to opt out after 2004 season
1 year/$4.05M (2001), avoided arbitration 1/02
drafted 1990 (24- )
agents: Alan Nero, Luis Espinel
ML service: 8.085
Hopefully the Yankees have learned their lesson on rewarding hero contracts.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 01:55 PM
ChinMusic, 3 million for Bernie is over paying him. I hope the Yankees don't bring him back because he has no value to this team.
He has some value as 4th outfielder, particularly as an experienc3ed CF. Sure he doesnt have the range or arm he used to have, but he is sure handed. He catches everything that he reaches. I would not envision him as a late inning defensive replacement, but more as injury insurance and spot starter to rest the regulars. He also could be someone to pinch run for Giambi. I would envision Bubba as the 5th outfielder used for late inning defense. Lets face it, how good really is the 4th outfielder? It has to be someone who is not good enough to be a starter on another team. And then there is the loyalty and career Yankee thing. OK maybe 2 million.
27IsNext
10-07-05, 01:55 PM
People--signing Ryan and offering Gordon arby with the hopes that he will decline is the IDEA. If he declines (which he probably will if he isn't the set-up man), we get two first round draft picks, which negates the one we will give up to sign Ryan.
LuckyLopez
10-07-05, 01:59 PM
I don't think its that hard to fathom. Assuming he would be recieving closer money with the opportunity to eventually take over the closer role in a couple years, I can see that happening...
I presume you're talking about Ryan to setup for Rivera. I can totally imagine that. I don't know if I'd count on it since he's bound to be able to get comparable money and a current closing job elsewhere, but it wouldn't surprise me if he took a deal like that. But I can't imagine the Yankees coming to him and saying "We want to sign you. We'll pay you what you want but you're pitching the 7th inning before Gordon." And him saying yes? Having him pitch the 8th is a demotion. Having him pitch the 7th?
Gordon is a slightly different story. He took a demotion to setup for Rivera and had problems with it for the first year, to the point where towards the end of the season he was publically discussing his desire to close elsewhere and the possability of him starting in the future. That he's at peace with being the setup man for one of, if not the, greatest closers of all time? Makes sense to me. But I can't imagine him being ok with a second demotion to the 7th inning when he can just as easily go somewhere else and get a promotion to the level of closer.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 02:00 PM
Chin---here is a rough estimation of money off the books at the end of this year.
SP Kevin Brown (15 mil)
CF Bernie Williams (12 mil)
CF Hideki Matsui (8 mil)
SP Al Leiter (400k)
1B Tino Martinez (2.75 mil)
SP Alan Embree (300k)
DH Ruben Sierra (1.5 mil)
C John Flaherty (800k)
SP Hideo Nomo (300k)
IF Rey Sanchez (600k)
RP Tom Gordon (3.75 mil)
SP Darrell May (3.225 mil)
RP Felix Rodriguez (3.15 mil)
A complete list is http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2004_01_04_dugoutdollars_archive.html
Roughly 51 million off the books.
Maybe more---I am not sure on the particulars of Karsay and Quantrill---if we sent money there or ate it.
Dugoutdollars say our payroll next year is....in millions.
$ 144.55
Thanks forgot about Frod. I think Gordon is back. Matsui is definitely back with a substantial raise. Also some of this is going to be eaten by the built in raises. Johnson I know gets a substantial raise for example. Maybe others do too. Does jeter get 50 million this year? ;)
Thanks forgot about Frod. I think Gordon is back. Matsui is definitely back with a substantial raise. Also some of this is going to be eaten by the built in raises. Johnson I know gets a substantial raise for example. Maybe others do too. Does jeter get 50 million this year? ;)
Matsui should make $10 max, less if it's the first year of a multi-year deal, and Gordon is much more useful to us playing for someone else because he's worth a first-round draft pick.
The other trade I could see, would be with TampaBay. Tampa Bays greatest need is pitching and I dont think that they could attract the free agent pitcher signing they need. They also have a glut of outfielders with Baldelli coming back and Gaithright. What about Pavano+Cabrera +$ for carl crawford?
You think that Carl Crawford is worth Pavano, a fairly highly touted OF prospect and money? :( I would think more like Gaithwright and two great prospects near the top of the TB system. But I don't think that TB thinks that way. They have no reason to try to "win it all now."
kingdog439
10-07-05, 02:44 PM
Lots of offtopic stuff in this thread, so Id like to chime in with:
1. If Matsuzaka is signed, I dont see anyway that Pavano stays on the team. Since Detroit was one of the teams interested in Pavano, and Minnesota may want to move Hunter due to his contract, what about a 3way with Pavano+$ to detroit, young cheap Bonderman to Minnesota, and Hunter to NY?
What would Detroit gain in this? They would swap pitchers of comparable quality but have to pay more for it.
Whoops, didn't see the +$ in there. Still it would have to be a lot of $. Bonderman is pretty cheap I think.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:01 PM
Matsui should make $10 max, less if it's the first year of a multi-year deal, and Gordon is much more useful to us playing for someone else because he's worth a first-round draft pick.
Gordon has been worth every penny he has made. Who is going to replace him? I think we need a big three. that is the formula for success. Has been for us previously and other teams with a good bullpen as well, like the Angels. Assuming you signed Ryan and let Gordon go, that makes two. Please dont tell me Sturtze is your 7th inning guy next year. Draft picks are nice. Maybe with the pick we'll draft someone as useful to us as Drew Henson was. Maybe if the pick pans out at all, he will contribute in 2010.
Gordon has been worth every penny he has made. Who is going to replace him? I think we need a big three. that is the formula for success. Has been for us previously and other teams with a good bullpen as well, like the Angels. Assuming you signed Ryan and let Gordon go, that makes two. Please dont tell me Sturtze is your 7th inning guy next year. Draft picks are nice. Maybe with the pick we'll draft someone as useful to us as Drew Henson was. Maybe if the pick pans out at all, he will contribute in 2010.
Maybe someone like Colter Bean, who has done absolutely nothing to prove he can't pitch out of the bullpen next year, and will cost about $4 million less than Gordon, plus not cost us a draft pick.
J. Brent Cox may also be ready by the all-star break next season.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:15 PM
You think that Carl Crawford is worth Pavano, a fairly highly touted OF prospect and money? :( I would think more like Gaithwright and two great prospects near the top of the TB system. But I don't think that TB thinks that way. They have no reason to try to "win it all now."
Tampa Bay is not far from competing for a wild card. They played above 500 for the last half of the season, and that is with atrocious starting pitching. Add Pavano to Kazmir makes a reasonable 1-2. They got an offense. They got a closer. They have been able to beat us, cleveland and angels this year. I think they are better than Toronto and Baltimore right now. Im not sure what direction Boston is going in next year. They may cut bait with Damon, Manny, Muellar and go with youth with Pedroia, Youkilis, Hansen and Paelbon. I think TB could compete with Oakland, Cleveland, Minnesota, Boston if they upgrade their rotation. The other part I didnt understand. Are you saying we wouldnt be getting enough back in a trade, by getting Crawford?
Tampa Bay is not far from competing for a wild card. They played above 500 for the last half of the season, and that is with atrocious starting pitching. Add Pavano to Kazmir makes a reasonable 1-2. They got an offense. They got a closer. They have been able to beat us, cleveland and angels this year. I think they are better than Toronto and Baltimore right now. Im not sure what direction Boston is going in next year. They may cut bait with Damon, Manny, Muellar and go with youth with Pedroia, Youkilis, Hansen and Paelbon. I think TB could compete with Oakland, Cleveland, Minnesota, Boston if they upgrade their rotation. The other part I didnt understand. Are you saying we wouldnt be getting enough back in a trade, by getting Crawford?
There is not a chance Pavano is moved, especially not for young talent like you're suggesting.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:24 PM
Maybe someone like Colter Bean, who has done absolutely nothing to prove he can't pitch out of the bullpen next year, and will cost about $4 million less than Gordon, plus not cost us a draft pick.
J. Brent Cox may also be ready by the all-star break next season.
That would be fine if you were running a 50 million dollar operation, but you cant let a 200 million dollar teams season go down the tubes because you wont spend 4 million to get that important 3rd guy. Gordon has proven he can do the job. Whats the backup plan if Bean and Cox arent ready? Im all for working a prospect into the mix, by giving them graduated responsibility. Id be OK if we had Mo, Gordon, Ryan and cut bait with Sturtze and gave Proctor another season and Bean/Cox a bullpen role to see if they could handle it. But, what you are advocating would be a disaster if the young unproven guys flopped.
NYDCYankee
10-07-05, 03:25 PM
You think that Carl Crawford is worth Pavano, a fairly highly touted OF prospect and money? :( I would think more like Gaithwright and two great prospects near the top of the TB system. But I don't think that TB thinks that way. They have no reason to try to "win it all now."
They have a new GM now....maybe they won't hate us as much.
That would be fine if you were running a 50 million dollar operation, but you cant let a 200 million dollar teams season go down the tubes because you wont spend 4 million to get that important 3rd guy. Gordon has proven he can do the job. Whats the backup plan if Bean and Cox arent ready? Im all for working a prospect into the mix, by giving them graduated responsibility. Id be OK if we had Mo, Gordon, Ryan and cut bait with Sturtze and gave Proctor another season and Bean/Cox a bullpen role to see if they could handle it. But, what you are advocating would be a disaster if the young unproven guys flopped.
What you're advocating would be a disaster to our farm system regardless of whether Gordon can repeat his previous two seasons despite being in his late 30s.
There's a good chance he wouldn't want to come back anyway, seeing as how he would be afforded the opportunity to close elsewhere.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:35 PM
There is not a chance Pavano is moved, especially not for young talent like you're suggesting.
The Yankees have already announced their intentions regarding Matsuzaka. That gives us Matsuzaka, Johson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Wang, small and Chacon. Who do you see as the odd man out? Are you saying the Yankees wouldnt consider moving Pavano? I dont know why you say that. He would be the ideal guy to move for a number of reasons. Number one, I think there has been a falling out between Torre/FO and Pavano. And by process of elimination, who else would go? I would think they want to hang on to Wang and Chacon. Mussina and Johnson make way too much to be attractive to any other team and Wright is pretty worthless in a trade IMO. Pavano is the only guy with a movable contract. If Matsuzaka(or Burnett) is acquired, I think Pavano is gone. If he is not, I think Pavano stays.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:36 PM
There is not a chance Pavano is moved, especially not for young talent like you're suggesting.
I dont follow you. Are you saying the Yanks wont part with Pavano? Or that TB wouldnt part with Crawford?
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:38 PM
What you're advocating would be a disaster to our farm system regardless of whether Gordon can repeat his previous two seasons despite being in his late 30s.
There's a good chance he wouldn't want to come back anyway, seeing as how he would be afforded the opportunity to close elsewhere.
How is resigning a guy we already have, a disaster to our farm system?
The Yankees have already announced their intentions regarding Matsuzaka. That gives us Matsuzaka, Johson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Wang, small and Chacon. Who do you see as the odd man out? Are you saying the Yankees wouldnt consider moving Pavano? I dont know why you say that. He would be the ideal guy to move for a number of reasons. Number one, I think there has been a falling out between Torre/FO and Pavano. And by process of elimination, who else would go? I would think they want to hang on to Wang and Chacon. Mussina and Johnson make way too much to be attractive to any other team and Wright is pretty worthless in a trade IMO. Pavano is the only guy with a movable contract. If Matsuzaka(or Burnett) is acquired, I think Pavano is gone. If he is not, I think Pavano stays.
First of all, please show me where I can see an official statement regarding Matsuzaka. I wasn't aware they've announced anything so far.
Wright and Small are gone. Count on it. Burnett isn't an option based on the number of effective pitchers that we already have, and especially considering he'll get a contract similar to Pavano's seeing as how there isn't another good SP option on the market this year (no, Millwood doesn't count).
If you consider $30 million over three years for a mediocre pitcher movable, then I can't help you. It's not worth it to eat $10+ million to see him pitch for someone else, assuming an ERA under about 4.50. That just doesn't make financial sense.
I dont follow you. Are you saying the Yanks wont part with Pavano? Or that TB wouldnt part with Crawford?
Tampa just signed Crawford to a long-term deal. He is the least likely to be moved, maybe outside of Delmon Young. At least for this year.
How is resigning a guy we already have, a disaster to our farm system?
If we sign Gordon and Ryan we'll have no first-round picks, as I understand it.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 03:54 PM
We are not penalized for resigning Gordon, because you dont lose a draft pick for signing your own guy back. We would lose a draft pick for signing Ryan. So are you advocating not signing Ryan, so we could keep our draft pick, so that in 5 years that draft pick will be half as good as Ryan? The Yankees are not about sacrificing winning now for building for the future. No team that spends 100 million let alone 200 million is about winning in 5 years. The Yankees are about winning this year and every year.
We are not penalized for resigning Gordon, because you dont lose a draft pick for signing your own guy back. We would lose a draft pick for signing Ryan. So are you advocating not signing Ryan, so we could keep our draft pick, so that in 5 years that draft pick will be half as good as Ryan? The Yankees are not about sacrificing winning now for building for the future. No team that spends 100 million let alone 200 million is about winning in 5 years. The Yankees are about winning this year and every year.
If we don't sign Gordon then we get a draft pick from whoever does sign him, essentially the one that we would lose by signing Ryan. Thus, I am advocating signing Ryan and letting Gordon go.
Please don't jump to uninformed conclusions.
Matsui55
10-07-05, 04:00 PM
Which team is going to take Po's contract?
Arizona is already letting it be known that they want a C who can hit with some power. Since Posada is one of only a small handful that fit that criteria, that's where I would start.
Granted, they will likely look to Hernandez and Molina first, but I would hope that the Yanks outbid everyone for Molina- if you haven't noticed how much the Angels pitchers trust him and he hits within himself, you've been missing a good show.
27IsNext
10-07-05, 04:04 PM
The Yankees have already announced their intentions regarding Matsuzaka. That gives us Matsuzaka, Johson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Wang, small and Chacon. Who do you see as the odd man out? Are you saying the Yankees wouldnt consider moving Pavano?
Wright will be the odd man out in your scenario. We'd have Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Matsuzaka, and Wang/Chacon splitting the 5th starter and 6th starter/long reliever role.
Matsui55
10-07-05, 04:05 PM
There is not a chance Pavano is moved, especially not for young talent like you're suggesting.
Seattle was sniffing around at the trade deadline. However, I think any deal would have to wait for ST to prove he's healthy. Texas is also a VERY good possibility. So are the Dodgers or even the Nats.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 04:06 PM
If we don't sign Gordon then we get a draft pick from whoever does sign him, essentially the one that we would lose by signing Ryan. Thus, I am advocating signing Ryan and letting Gordon go.
Please don't jump to uninformed conclusions.
If your late inning bullpen consists of Ryan, Mo and a prayer to bridge the gap between the starter and Ryan, I think we are going to have the same problem we had this year and last year. Late season burnout and ineffectiveness of the bullpen due to overuse of those 2 guys because we dont have anyone else that Torre is comfortable with, with a five run lead in the 9th or a 12-3 game in the 8th.
Seattle was sniffing around at the trade deadline. However, I think any deal would have to wait for ST to prove he's healthy. Texas is also a VERY good possibility. So are the Dodgers or even the Nats.
If we can find someone to take at least 75% of the $30 million and get anything at all back, then we should take it, no question.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 04:08 PM
Arizona is already letting it be known that they want a C who can hit with some power. Since Posada is one of only a small handful that fit that criteria, that's where I would start.
Granted, they will likely look to Hernandez and Molina first, but I would hope that the Yanks outbid everyone for Molina- if you haven't noticed how much the Angels pitchers trust him and he hits within himself, you've been missing a good show.
I like him too, but can he stay healthy?
If your late inning bullpen consists of Ryan, Mo and a prayer to bridge the gap between the starter and Ryan, I think we are going to have the same problem we had this year and last year. Late season burnout and ineffectiveness of the bullpen due to overuse of those 2 guys because we dont have anyone else that Torre is comfortable with, with a five run lead in the 9th or a 12-3 game in the 8th.
We shouldn't sacrifice the future because of Torre's inability to manage a baseball game.
27IsNext
10-07-05, 04:17 PM
If your late inning bullpen consists of Ryan, Mo and a prayer to bridge the gap between the starter and Ryan, I think we are going to have the same problem we had this year and last year. Late season burnout and ineffectiveness of the bullpen due to overuse of those 2 guys because we dont have anyone else that Torre is comfortable with, with a five run lead in the 9th or a 12-3 game in the 8th.
Pick up Sturtze's option. He's proven to be an effective middle reliever when he isn't overused, or forced to spot start. Trade Posada for another middle reliever. Make Henn a reliever. Make Matt Smith the LOOGY. Either Wang or Chacon are the sixth starter/long reliever.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 04:20 PM
Wright will be the odd man out in your scenario. We'd have Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Matsuzaka, and Wang/Chacon splitting the 5th starter and 6th starter/long reliever role.
I think Small is back for the spot starter/long reliever role. I dont like the idea of signing Damon, and their is no other option in FA to fill a position of need that must be addressed. I think CF is going to be filled via trade, and the thing we are going to trade is surplus starting pitching.
I think Small is back for the spot starter/long reliever role. I dont like the idea of signing Damon, and their is no other option in FA to fill a position of need that must be addressed. I think CF is going to be filled via trade, and the thing we are going to trade is surplus starting pitching.
Small won't be back. He's old and even the Yankees know he'll revert to form soon.
ChinMusic
10-07-05, 04:36 PM
Small won't be back. He's old and even the Yankees know he'll revert to form soon.
Sounds like Sturtze to me.
Sounds like Sturtze to me.
If they invite him back after this season, I'll have officially lost all faith in their personnel department.
27IsNext
10-07-05, 05:32 PM
If they invite him back after this season, I'll have officially lost all faith in their personnel department.
WHY?
He won't cost us anything but money, and he's proven to be effective when we don't overuse him or force him to spot start.
WHY?
He won't cost us anything but money, and he's proven to be effective when we don't overuse him or force him to spot start.
Just because Torre uses him doesn't mean he's been effective.
Post ASB: 30.2 IP, 6.07 ERA.
27IsNext
10-07-05, 06:04 PM
Just because Torre uses him doesn't mean he's been effective.
Post ASB: 30.2 IP, 6.07 ERA.
You missed the point. He's ineffective BECAUSE Torre overused him. Prior to the Baltimore start, he was lights out. An offseason of no throwing, and I fully expect him to return to pre-ASB form.
EDIT: My plan essentially would make the pen "Torre-proof," eliminating the overuse. (Hopefully.)
You missed the point. He's ineffective BECAUSE Torre overused him. Prior to the Baltimore start, he was lights out. An offseason of no throwing, and I fully expect him to return to pre-ASB form.
EDIT: My plan essentially would make the pen "Torre-proof," eliminating the overuse. (Hopefully.)
I'm not sure how much that one start can be used to excuse the last three months of his season. I'm pessimistic at best about how effective he will be next season, and I'd rather give $300k to a Columbus reliever than $1.5 million for a mediocre month or two from Sturtze.
27IsNext
10-07-05, 06:53 PM
I'm not sure how much that one start can be used to excuse the last three months of his season. I'm pessimistic at best about how effective he will be next season, and I'd rather give $300k to a Columbus reliever than $1.5 million for a mediocre month or two from Sturtze.
I'm willing to be my left nut that an offseason of rest is all he needs to return to the form he had prior to that start.
Okay, not really, but you get the point. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
sugmasterflex
10-07-05, 07:02 PM
Gordon is one of the best relievers in baseball and him being 37 means this is his last chance to get a big contract. That means closer role. Gordon could very well leave. And it won't be the worst thing in the world if Ryan signs and Gordon walks; we get 2 draft picks.
parkerstrong
10-08-05, 12:38 PM
Take this for what's worth.....
I just read my latest Sporting News and in the "Inside Dish" part they coment on BJ Ryan and where he may end up. To sum up what it said was that Ryan is willing to set up for the right team and a teammate suggested that Ryan would love to assume that role for the Yankees.
If we add Ryan to our bullpen that would fill a huge hole out there. I am excited to see where he ends up this offseason.
ring403
10-08-05, 12:54 PM
I have NO problem with the Yankees giving Ryan closer $ to be a setup man until Mo retires. If it's true that he's willing to do that, George needs to pay the man.
Signing Ryan would go a long way toward fixing the Yankees bullpen problems.
I would also have no problem having Gordon in Sturtze's role next season.
Getting a dominant left-handed set-up man like Ryan, along with another middle reliever in a trade (combined with a Small or Mendoza-type long reliever and another lefty specialist, maybe Matt Smith from Columbus) should alleviate the weakness we have getting from the starter to Mo, even should Gordon decide to close elsewhere (which he more than likely will do).
Yanks21
10-08-05, 01:30 PM
Signing Ryan as a set-up man and future closer would be a shrewd move. Even if it takes Karsay money. Recoup the lost draft picks by letting Gordon walk...
ChinMusic
10-09-05, 07:23 PM
Can someone explain why we get 2 draft picks for letting someone else sign Gordon, but only have to give Balt 1 for signing Ryan?
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