View Full Version : BJ Ryan interested in Yankees / Ryan signs with Toronto
hellonewman
11-17-05, 11:18 PM
What makes you think the Yankees are going to destroy the salary structure for set-up men/closers? When have they EVER broken the salary structure for any type of player?Offhand, I don't remember any $5.75 million a year setup men before Karsay, but that's just off the top of my head.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 11:19 PM
The yankees are counting on ryan or gordon to the point that they told Sauerbeck that if he comes to the yankees, he will only be a lefty specialist and have no chance to be a setup guy.
NewEraYanks2527
11-17-05, 11:21 PM
The yankees are counting on ryan or gordon to the point that they told Sauerbeck that if he comes to the yankees, he will only be a lefty specialist and have no chance to be a setup guy. Really? When did that happen?
WebsterMulligan
11-17-05, 11:22 PM
Not everyone wants to play for the Yankees. Just ask Greg Maddux.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 11:23 PM
Really? When did that happen?
I heard (actually read it) Sauerback say that. Whether or not that's what he was told of if that's what he perceived, I couldn't tell you.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 11:24 PM
Really? When did that happen?
I read on the article when sauerbeck re-signed with the indians. Sauerbeck said that he prefers the indians than to a team that can offer him 2 or yrs for more money but not as a setup man. I believed the articles even mentioned the yankees as the other team.
hellonewman
11-17-05, 11:29 PM
I read on the article when sauerbeck re-signed with the indians. Sauerbeck said that he prefers the indians than to a team that can offer him 2 or yrs for more money but not as a setup man. I believed the articles even mentioned the yankees as the other team.If the Indians are going to use Sauerbeck as a full-fledged setup man, color me thrilled.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 11:32 PM
If the Indians are going to use Sauerbeck as a full-fledged setup man, color me thrilled.
He was assured by the indians that he will be given the opportunity to compete for that role while the yankees will not assured him.
hellonewman
11-17-05, 11:34 PM
He was assured by the indians that he will be given the opportunity to compete for that role while the yankees will not assured him.OK. I hope he wins it and faces A-Rod often next year. :)
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 11:34 PM
He was assured by the indians that he will be given the opportunity to compete for that role while the yankees will not assured him.
I can't say I'm disappointed.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 11:41 PM
the point here is that every reliever wants a chance to be a setup man, not just a lefty or righty specialist. Misreading the market or a player's frame of mind will be disastrous.
NewEraYanks2527
11-17-05, 11:47 PM
I read on the article when sauerbeck re-signed with the indians. Sauerbeck said that he prefers the indians than to a team that can offer him 2 or yrs for more money but not as a setup man. I believed the articles even mentioned the yankees as the other team. Gotcha, thanks for the info. I was wondering what the whole deal with Saurerbeck was.
StatenIslandYankee
11-17-05, 11:48 PM
Let's pray that THIS is a ploy :eek:
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57630.htm
You're scaring me Brian. Tell us you're kidding.
MUST be a joke.
yankees76
11-17-05, 11:52 PM
I think Cash is just posturing for the agents he is negotiating with: "Hey, we gave Cano and Wang a chance, and it worked out. Don't think we won't give Phillips and Smith their chance to shine."
Not very convincing, but if it shaves a million off a reliever's salary, maybe that money can be put to improving the sushi concessions in the Food Court, which blow.
StatenIslandYankee
11-17-05, 11:54 PM
I think Cash is just posturing for the agents he is negotiating with: "Hey, we gave Cano and Wang a chance, and it worked out. Don't think we won't give Phillips and Smith their chance to shine."
Not very convincing, but if it shaves a million off a reliever's salary, maybe that money can be put to improving the sushi concessions in the Food Court, which blow.
roflmao :lol:
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 11:55 PM
I think Cash is just posturing for the agents he is negotiating with: "Hey, we gave Cano and Wang a chance, and it worked out. Don't think we won't give Phillips and Smith their chance to shine."
Not very convincing, but if it shaves a million off a reliever's salary, maybe that money can be put to improving the sushi concessions in the Food Court, which blow.
:lol: True dat (awful sushi concessions).
I'm not sure what Cashman's tactics are, but I don't think he's fooling anyone (if that's his purpose) because most of the free world knows what the Yankees dire needs are - all teams, players, agents, my sister, my great aunt, Charlie the mailman, other GM's etc. - and who can/can't fill them.
I hope Cashman isn't serious about Proctor as possible set-up. :eek:
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 12:17 AM
This has nothing to do with the BJ situation, but just my general thoughts.
The Yanks, in typical fashion, make every signing, trade and potential signing more complicated than it should be, or than most teams seem to. Their paranoia, guardedness and over-analyzation of even the most insignificant details are frightening. A lot of good players that could have filled glaring needs have slipped through the cracks the last few years and I don't expect much different this year.
It's a travesty how they've built the pen and to some extent, the starting staff (especially in 2004) and how they just don't know how to right it. I have no confidence whatsoever in their player evaluating skills, especially in this case, for the pen.
As fans, names we are hoping to fill the pen for middle relief and set-up probably won't be on this team in 2006. Mark my words. Start as many wish threads as you like. We'll end up with more F-Rod type pitchers. Someone with a 6.86 ERA in the NL with 98 BB, 28 K's, 144 hits in 72 innings, but, hey, what a killer slider! And what a year he had in 2001 when his ERA was 3.97! Maybe he can do it again!
27IsNext
11-18-05, 01:08 AM
Let's pray that THIS is a ploy :eek:
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57630.htm
You're scaring me Brian. Tell us you're kidding.
More trade leverage. He's kidding.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 01:12 AM
More trade leverage. He's kidding.
Yeah, but, think he's fooling anyone? Unless he's, gulp, serious.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 02:18 AM
If the Yanks don't get Ryan, it seems like their best option is Gordon as the set-up man, if he's willing. The Yanks are going to have to overpay for his services.
He has proven to be one of the better ones during the regular season and if he remains, Torre has to use him more wisely. It's his notoriously poor post seasons (even before the Yanks) and age that trouble me most.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:19 AM
I think we may have to forget about BJ Ryan :mad: :mad: :mad:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
Improving their bullpen figured to be the easiest part of this Yankees offseason. Yet just one week into the free-agency period, their top targets are looking elsewhere.
The Yankees' dream of B.J. Ryan setting up for Mariano Rivera has all but ended now that the lefthander has made it clear he would rather close elsewhere. He and his agent were in New York the last two days, but they visited only the Mets.
[...]
Although Ryan said toward the end of September that he was open to setting up for Rivera, it appears to have been nothing more than a negotiating tactic. He recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees.
His preference is to close for a team with at least a chance of competing for a world championship, according to a person familiar with his thinking, which is why he chose to visit the Blue Jays, Tigers and Mets this week and not the Yankees.
I remember hearing that guys in the bullpen were particularly not happy with Mazzone. I wonder if signing him as a bench coach had a negative affect on signing BJ Ryan.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/366828p-312251c.html
bakntime
11-18-05, 03:56 AM
I think we may have to forget about BJ Ryan :mad: :mad: :mad:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
.If that's truly the case, then he's not cut out for NY. He didn't pitch particularly well against the Yankees and Red Sox this year, so maybe he can't handle pressure.
NYDCYankee
11-18-05, 04:25 AM
If that's truly the case, then he's not cut out for NY. He didn't pitch particularly well against the Yankees and Red Sox this year, so maybe he can't handle pressure.
Good point. Though I love how everyone is writing that he doesn't want to come to the Yankees just because he didn't have a meeting with the Yankees. Maybe his schedule conflicted with Cashman's. There is still plenty of time in this thing.
This has nothing to do with the BJ situation, but just my general thoughts.
The Yanks, in typical fashion, make every signing, trade and potential signing more complicated than it should be, or than most teams seem to. Their paranoia, guardedness and over-analyzation of even the most insignificant details are frightening. A lot of good players that could have filled glaring needs have slipped through the cracks the last few years and I don't expect much different this year.
It's a travesty how they've built the pen and to some extent, the starting staff (especially in 2004) and how they just don't know how to right it. I have no confidence whatsoever in their player evaluating skills, especially in this case, for the pen.
As fans, names we are hoping to fill the pen for middle relief and set-up probably won't be on this team in 2006. Mark my words. Start as many wish threads as you like. We'll end up with more F-Rod type pitchers. Someone with a 6.86 ERA in the NL with 98 BB, 28 K's, 144 hits in 72 innings, but, hey, what a killer slider! And what a year he had in 2001 when his ERA was 3.97! Maybe he can do it again!
Could you give the folks a number of examples how the Yankee make every trade and signing more complected than it should be? I am curious if you have major league GM experience and are able to judge this based on your own operation. Maybe I am talking to Steve Phillips, instead of just a message board guy whose entire understanding of the Yankees and their dealings are based on what he reads in newspaper articles.
Or is this more of your inane fan rambling like how not signing Ryan is all Cashman's fault and what a terrible GM he is?
NYDCYankee
11-18-05, 05:50 AM
Maybe I am talking to Steve Phillips...
Are you actually commending the job Steve Phillips did as a GM...
Yeah, but, think he's fooling anyone? Unless he's, gulp, serious.
He should be serious about SMith, but as a lefty specialist. That guy is excellent against lefties.
If that's truly the case, then he's not cut out for NY. He didn't pitch particularly well against the Yankees and Red Sox this year, so maybe he can't handle pressure.
It is better to know that now than live with it for the next 4 years. Bummer!
I think we may have to forget about BJ Ryan :mad: :mad: :mad:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
I remember hearing that guys in the bullpen were particularly not happy with Mazzone. I wonder if signing him as a bench coach had a negative affect on signing BJ Ryan.
I hope this isn't true. :( :(
Could you give the folks a number of examples how the Yankee make every trade and signing more complected than it should be? I am curious if you have major league GM experience and are able to judge this based on your own operation. Maybe I am talking to Steve Phillips, instead of just a message board guy whose entire understanding of the Yankees and their dealings are based on what he reads in newspaper articles.
Or is this more of your inane fan rambling like how not signing Ryan is all Cashman's fault and what a terrible GM he is?
This is a great post applicable to a lot of what is written here.
ring403
11-18-05, 08:00 AM
I think Cash is just posturing for the agents he is negotiating with: "Hey, we gave Cano and Wang a chance, and it worked out. Don't think we won't give Phillips and Smith their chance to shine."
Not very convincing, but if it shaves a million off a reliever's salary, maybe that money can be put to improving the sushi concessions in the Food Court, which blow.
No, I believe he's very serious about Phillips and Smith, and I'm extremely happy to hear the change in organizational philosophy. The free agent shopping spree that the team has been on for years has resulted in an old, overpaid, dysfunctioinal team. Yet some fans continue to clamor for the Yankees to sign more big names "at any cost". Fortunately, Brian Cashman has a smarter strategy in place.
MTYankee23
11-18-05, 08:05 AM
No, I believe he's very serious about Phillips and Smith, and I'm extremely happy to hear the change in organizational philosophy. The free agent shopping spree that the team has been on for years has resulted in an old, overpaid, dysfunctioinal team. Yet some fans continue to clamor for the Yankees to sign more big names "at any cost". Fortunately, Brian Cashman has a smarter strategy in place.
Completely agree, and with Ryan out of the running, barring a trade, I'd like to see the bullpen situation resolved internally. I find it hard to believe that between Wright, Small, Henn, Smith, Sturtze, and DePaula, we couldn't piece together a bullpen. Especially with Kerrigan and Guidry involved. What I'd love to see, and i'm sure some people will hate this idea, is Steven White falling into the Papelbon role later in the year. Apparently in his AFL starts, he was lights out for the first few innings.
NelsonMuntz
11-18-05, 08:43 AM
Completely agree, and with Ryan out of the running, barring a trade, I'd like to see the bullpen situation resolved internally. I find it hard to believe that between Wright, Small, Henn, Smith, Sturtze, and DePaula, we couldn't piece together a bullpen. Especially with Kerrigan and Guidry involved. What I'd love to see, and i'm sure some people will hate this idea, is Steven White falling into the Papelbon role later in the year. Apparently in his AFL starts, he was lights out for the first few innings.
A bullpen of Wright, Small, Henn, Smith, Sturze and DePaula would be awful. Wright struggles most in his first inning, Small is likely to revert back to his career numbers, Henn has yet to prove he has the stuff to succeed at the MLB level, Smith has potential but he has no MLB experience so I'm not sure that we can rely on him to be the bridge at this point, and Sturtze, well who knows which Tanyon Sturtze we'll see next year. We need to make a move if we want to improve our middle relief.
StatenIslandYankee
11-18-05, 08:46 AM
Gut feeling .... Will Ryan come here?
BillAlex
11-18-05, 08:53 AM
my gut says.... NO
Yankees1962
11-18-05, 09:05 AM
No, I believe he's very serious about Phillips and Smith, and I'm extremely happy to hear the change in organizational philosophy. The free agent shopping spree that the team has been on for years has resulted in an old, overpaid, dysfunctioinal team. Yet some fans continue to clamor for the Yankees to sign more big names "at any cost". Fortunately, Brian Cashman has a smarter strategy in place.
I couldn't agree more with your comment! I view what might be happening with these free agents as an opportunity for the Yankees to get back to the basics of making up their roster with players you have developed through your system and if necessary, filling in the blanks with players acquired through trades and free agency. I'm so sick of the media and Yankee fans that think it's their enternal right to purchase any top hired gun to get them the next WS championship. After five years of failure, it's time to refine that approach and get back to the method that helped put together the roster that brought championships during the 1996-2000 seasons. I think Cashman gets it, I just hope the owner as well as certain Yankee fans do. This is not to say the Yankees won't get some help through free agency or trades, but those methods can't be the only ones utilized this off-season.
Dr. Gonzo
11-18-05, 09:13 AM
I don't think he is completely talking out of his ass either. I think he means that he is more then willing to go in with these guys, and that he won't be pressured into dumb moves because he needs ML veteran players.
He will look for help, but has no problem going with "young" guys. I think both no matter what make the team. Smith will be in the bullpen somehow, and philips will be the back up.
Does anyone think that George or someone else told him not to go nuts with payroll. Maybe spend it when you need it, don't spend because you can. I could see George wanting to bring the payroll down, not because of the finanials, but more so people don't say so much crap. For some reason I feel they told him to trim it down where he can, in places like lower pen help and back up 1b.
Yankees1962
11-18-05, 09:20 AM
I don't think he is completely talking out of his ass either. I think he means that he is more then willing to go in with these guys, and that he won't be pressured into dumb moves because he needs ML veteran players.
He will look for help, but has no problem going with "young" guys. I think both no matter what make the team. Smith will be in the bullpen somehow, and philips will be the back up.
Does anyone think that George or someone else told him not to go nuts with payroll. Maybe spend it when you need it, don't spend because you can. I could see George wanting to bring the payroll down, not because of the finanials, but more so people don't say so much crap. For some reason I feel they told him to trim it down where he can, in places like lower pen help and back up 1b.
The need to trim the payroll is essential because you're spending all this money and you're still not getting the results you desire. Something is wrong and spending dollars up the yang, yang is not going to fix it. I think they finally realized that they have to tweak the way they do business and refocus their attention on getting better results by fully utilizing all of their assets which doesn't mean just trying to outspend the other teams.
MTYankee23
11-18-05, 09:22 AM
A bullpen of Wright, Small, Henn, Smith, Sturze and DePaula would be awful. Wright struggles most in his first inning, Small is likely to revert back to his career numbers, Henn has yet to prove he has the stuff to succeed at the MLB level, Smith has potential but he has no MLB experience so I'm not sure that we can rely on him to be the bridge at this point, and Sturtze, well who knows which Tanyon Sturtze we'll see next year. We need to make a move if we want to improve our middle relief.
That's the thing with bullpens though, highly unpredictable. With the exception of a few stud guys (Rivera, Gagne, Sheilds, FRod) they tend to see-saw. Which is why I'd advocate finding low cost alternatives if nothing good comes our way. Nothing on that FA marking outside of Hoffman, Wanger, and Ryan impresses me. So instead of having cheap questionable relievers, we'd have expensive questionable relievers.
effdamets
11-18-05, 09:24 AM
BJ doesn't want to deal with the stress of pitching for the Yankees? This guy is a closer? What a fairy!
Good... Let him go to a place that doesn't have stress, like Kansas City and then he can rot in baseball hell...
indianyanksfan
11-18-05, 09:28 AM
get farnsworth, howry...you have sturtze already and wright. that's 4. bring up matt smith and get joey eichen.
get farnsworth, howry...you have sturtze already and wright. that's 4. bring up matt smith and get joey eichen.
there are only 2 open spots on the 25 man roster. you can't acquire 4 new players.
indianyanksfan
11-18-05, 09:34 AM
there are only 2 open spots on the 25 man roster. you can't acquire 4 new players.
i'm assuming that gordon is gone. also i dont think small will make the ml roster. do we need 2 starters in the pen?
so basically it's wright rivera and sturtze in the pen so far.
so how many spots is that for relievers?
whalers
11-18-05, 09:36 AM
Nowhere in either the post or the newsday article is their anything of substance regarding BJ Ryan. Until I see a quote from either his agent or himself saying he doesnt want to play in the Bronx I wont beleive it. I will admit this isnt encouraging but this is all speculation.
i'm assuming that gordon is gone. also i dont think small will make the ml roster. do we need 2 starters in the pen?
so basically it's wright rivera and sturtze in the pen so far.
so how many spots is that for relievers?
I assumed that Gordon was gone as well. The Yankees still have 8 pitchers with ML contracts and Wang. That leaves 2 spots.
1. Johnson
2. Pavano
3. Mussina
4. Chacon
5. Wang
6. Small
7. Wright
8. Rivera
9. Sturtze
You may think that Small won't make the roster, but until they cut him, he's on the roster and taking up a spot. Even if they do cut him, that only leaves 3 spots, not 4.
Wang's Groundballs
11-18-05, 09:50 AM
Nowhere in either the post or the newsday article is their anything of substance regarding BJ Ryan. Until I see a quote from either his agent or himself saying he doesnt want to play in the Bronx I wont beleive it. I will admit this isnt encouraging but this is all speculation.
Ditto.
Remember how Carl Pavano didn't want to come to the Yankees either? It may be the truth about Ryan, but I'm not buying it at this point.
Wang's Groundballs
11-18-05, 09:53 AM
I assumed that Gordon was gone as well. The Yankees still have 8 pitchers with ML contracts and Wang. That leaves 2 spots.
1. Johnson
2. Pavano
3. Mussina
4. Chacon
5. Wang
6. Small
7. Wright
8. Rivera
9. Sturtze
You may think that Small won't make the roster, but until they cut him, he's on the roster and taking up a spot. Even if they do cut him, that only leaves 3 spots, not 4.
It sounds like Matt Smith has a good shot. I wish Bean would at least get a chance but I don't see that happening. I wouldn't be against Jason Anderson getting another shot...
I'm not a big fan of Howry; I don't trust a reliever with a mediocre K rate.
I like Farnsworth since he gets a lot of K's, but I don't think he's worth anywhere near what he'll get.
It sounds like Matt Smith has a good shot. I wish Bean would at least get a chance but I don't see that happening. I wouldn't be against Jason Anderson getting another shot...
I'm not a big fan of Howry; I don't trust a reliever with a mediocre K rate.
I like Farnsworth since he gets a lot of K's, but I don't think he's worth anywhere near what he'll get.
I'd like to see Smith get a shot too, but again, it's an issue of space. If there are really only 2 spots in the pen left - one RH setup guy and one LH setup guy, Smith isn't getting a shot until someone gets hurt.
Wang's Groundballs
11-18-05, 10:07 AM
I'd like to see Smith get a shot too, but again, it's an issue of space. If there are really only 2 spots in the pen left - one RH setup guy and one LH setup guy, Smith isn't getting a shot until someone gets hurt.
Well, with our pitching staff that shouldn't take long. ;)
I'm still hoping that Bowden stays with the Nationals, they get desperate for a SP, and we can ship off Small for Wilkerson or Church. I wouldn't think it's possible but it is Bowden...and hey, we could throw in Rudy Guillen -- he's got tools baby!
I just hope that we stay away from FA relievers this year not named Ryan or Dotel (only if he'll come for a similar contract to what Lieber got).
indianyanksfan
11-18-05, 10:58 AM
cant small be given a minor league deal?
look i'm grateful for the guy but i dont think we need 2 long relievers in the pen, in which no one but mo has a defined role.
seems like picking up sturtze's option was a safety net but he cant be the guy.
if we have only 3 more spots then i'd get farnsworth, put chacon in the pen and bring up smith or get eichen.
sign washburn.
am i still going overboard with the spots or did i finally get the number right? :(
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:01 AM
if we have only 3 more spots then i'd get farnsworth, put chacon in the pen and bring up smith or get eichen.
am i still going overboard with the spots or did i finally get the number right? :(
I'd rather Chacon was in the starting rotation, where he was great and is more important. He didn't do so well as a reliever in Colorado.
As for the spots, I'm confused with what you've got but there are 11 spots. We have 9 guys signed for next year. I'm not sure what Small's deal is but with his success, I think he'll be on the team.
1. RJ
2. Moose
3. Wang
4. Chacon
5. Pavano
6. Mo
7. Sturtze
8. Wright
9. Small
10. ???
11. ???
Pavano may also be traded but if that is the case, I think we'll sign another starting pitcher. 2 bullpen spots left.
indianyanksfan
11-18-05, 11:03 AM
I'd rather Chacon was in the starting rotation, where he was great and is more important. He didn't do so well as a reliever in Colorado.
As for the spots, I'm confused with what you've got but there are 11 spots. We have 9 guys signed for next year. I'm not sure what Small's deal is but with his success, I think he'll be on the team.
1. RJ
2. Moose
3. Wang
4. Chacon
5. Pavano
6. Mo
7. Sturtze
8. Wright
9. Small
10. ???
11. ???
Pavano may also be traded but if that is the case, I think we'll sign another starting pitcher. 2 bullpen spots left.
unless wright might be moved?
i dont think they should put that much trust in small. just my opinion.
i'd rather have farnsworth, smith and howry there instead of small.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:04 AM
unless wright might be moved?
i dont think they should put that much trust in small. just my opinion.
i'd rather have farnsworth, smith and howry there instead of small.
I don't think we can move Wright.
Well, Smith will get his shot in ST and then we will see for ourselves who deserves it.
indianyanksfan
11-18-05, 11:05 AM
I don't think we can move Wright.
Well, Smith will get his shot in ST and then we will see for ourselves who deserves it.
then the yanks should get both howry and farnsworth.
a pen with wright, howry farnsworth, small, sturtze and mo is better than what we got right now.
At this point, would it be wise for BJ Ryan to rule out the Yankees? Even if he didn't want to come here, you would think his agent would keep us in the mix if just to set the market price.
At this point, would it be wise for BJ Ryan to rule out the Yankees? Even if he didn't want to come here, you would think his agent would keep us in the mix if just to set the market price.
Good point.. which makes me question the validity of this latest news.
Slidemaster
11-18-05, 11:40 AM
According to this article anyway
http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,1324844.story?coll=ny-yankees-bigpix
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-18-05, 11:41 AM
At this point, would it be wise for BJ Ryan to rule out the Yankees? Even if he didn't want to come here, you would think his agent would keep us in the mix if just to set the market price.
When you've got the Mets involved, and Omar is spending money like virgin with a fistfull of money in a strip club, you don't need the Yankees.
PerfectCone
11-18-05, 11:56 AM
Yeah, it's looking more and more like he wants to be a closer. Can't blame him for that, he's certainly capable and he has earned his right to choose.
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 11:57 AM
Well doesn't that just stick a bit of poop in my cornflakes this morning.
That sucks. You can't always get what you want
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 12:00 PM
That sucks. You can't always get what you want
We SO needed Ryan. Really. I would have been happy if the rest of the off season were a disaster just so long as we got Ryan.
(Okay, we need a CFer more than we need Ryan...but we really needed Ryan.)
When you've got the Mets involved, and Omar is spending money like virgin with a fistfull of money in a strip club, you don't need the Yankees.
So true. Shouldn't be long before we start hearing that the Mets are bad for baseball.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 12:06 PM
We've been discussing this in the BJ thread all last night. Does anyone actually believe that a friend of Ryan's - ("He recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees.") would say that and hurt Ryan's leverage?
Plus, aren't the Yanks still pursuing someone (Giles) who had a no-trade to NY clause in his recently expired contract and has been rumored to tell "friends" he isn't interested in NY?
whalers
11-18-05, 12:10 PM
So true. Shouldn't be long before we start hearing that the Mets are bad for baseball.
Not until they win. So they should be safe for a while.
HouseThatRingsBuild
11-18-05, 12:22 PM
According to this article anyway
http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,1324844.story?coll=ny-yankees-bigpix
Ok, I wrote in another thread whats going on with bj ryan.
HouseThatRingsBuild
11-18-05, 12:27 PM
but didn't he say he wants to play for the yanks?
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 12:28 PM
Well doesn't that just stick a bit of poop in my cornflakes this morning.
Yeah, if you got poop in your cornflakes, that will suck.
nyg02005
11-18-05, 12:30 PM
the way the yankees to get back at ryan is to sign a good reliever now and making noise that can be read as they are going the other way. Maybe this will bring out the true intention of ryan if he just wants more money from the yankees. The yankees should not wait for him, they should force him to decide earlier.
Archer1979
11-18-05, 12:31 PM
Note to self: Cancel Brunch plans with Bronx By The Bay.
Can we get at least 3 or 4 more BJ Ryan threads? The 3 that already exist really aren't enough for my taste.
Beast Master
11-18-05, 12:36 PM
then lets get billy wagner!
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 12:41 PM
Can we get at least 3 or 4 more BJ Ryan threads? The 3 that already exist really aren't enough for my taste.
Welcome to ITL. I'm Julie, your cruise director. I hope you enjoy your stay in the land of many threads about the same thing.
DiMaggio5CF
11-18-05, 12:43 PM
Starting Rotation
1. Randy Johnson, L
2. Mike Mussina, R
3. Shawn Chacon, R
4. Jaret Wright, R
5. Chien-Ming Wang, R
Bullpen
Closer: Mariano Rivera, R
Setup: Eddie Guardado*, L
Middle: Bob Howry, R
Middle: Tanyon Sturtze, R
LOOGY: Ricardo Rincon, L
Long: Aaron Small, R
* Acquired in trade for Carl Pavano
Get it done, Cashman!
surge511
11-18-05, 12:47 PM
Farnsworth and Rincon I guess, this really stinks that we couldn't get Ryan. I'm still holding out hope, though. Maybe we can outbid the other teams. But maybe we should just go with a power righty bullpen with a LOOGY like we have been doing for the past few years.
35Knucklecurve
11-18-05, 12:58 PM
It was too good to be true. However, if he really wants to be a closer, he's going to have to deal with stress every time he gets the call from the bullpen. A blown save is a blown save whether you're pitching for the Yankees or not.
Hmmmm, doesn't want to deal with the stress of playing for the Yankees and was just using the Yankees for negotiations, sounds familiar. I can remember a time when FA's did that to the Yankees on a regular basis.
yankswn23
11-18-05, 01:08 PM
Who is this BJ Ryan character, and is there other threads where I can read about him? :D
JeterRodriguezSheff
11-18-05, 01:11 PM
So you are all giving up hope? Since when is Newsday and "a friend of BJ Ryan" the be all end all of sports news? Remember how many times the Randy Johnson trade was "off for good" last year?
Yankees13
11-18-05, 01:13 PM
Wonderful...
mycroft
11-18-05, 01:13 PM
sounds like he wants to be the big dog in the pen and doesn't want to setup. Well I hate to tell BJ but as a closer he is mediocre.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-18-05, 01:17 PM
then lets get billy wagner!
I'm sure he's much more willing to become a set-up man than Ryan is.
Yankees1962
11-18-05, 01:18 PM
sounds like he wants to be the big dog in the pen and doesn't want to setup. Well I hate to tell BJ but as a closer he is mediocre.
Calling Ryan mediocre as a closer is a bit much.
Bullpen
Closer: Mariano Rivera, R
Setup: Eddie Guardado*, L
Middle: Bob Howry, R
Middle: Tanyon Sturtze, R
LOOGY: Ricardo Rincon, L
Long: Aaron Small, R
Ricardo Rincon? Nooooooooooo! We've beat that guy so many times I just would never trust him...
JavyVazquezIsSick
11-18-05, 01:19 PM
If we don't get him we're gonna have to give Gordon three years...
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 01:20 PM
sounds like he wants to be the big dog in the pen and doesn't want to setup. Well I hate to tell BJ but as a closer he is mediocre.
Wow, thats completely wrong. Good job.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 01:28 PM
I'm sure he's much more willing to become a set-up man than Ryan is.
I think that is one of the conditions Wagner has stated to anyone looking to sign him - he wants to be demoted.
iWant27
11-18-05, 01:33 PM
Well i guess if he is so sensitive that he cant pitch at the biggest stage of baseball , then screw him . He can take pavano with him whereever he wants to go . How come all the players making millions of dollars be so scared like chickensh**, so scared of pressure . Shame on these players if they are running away from pressure .
shotgun_sam
11-18-05, 01:47 PM
Starting Rotation
1. Randy Johnson, L
2. Mike Mussina, R
3. Shawn Chacon, R
4. Jaret Wright, R
5. Chien-Ming Wang, R
Bullpen
Closer: Mariano Rivera, R
Setup: Eddie Guardado*, L
Middle: Bob Howry, R
Middle: Tanyon Sturtze, R
LOOGY: Ricardo Rincon, L
Long: Aaron Small, R
* Acquired in trade for Carl Pavano
Get it done, Cashman!
Eddie isn't gonna set up for anyone.
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 01:48 PM
Eddie isn't gonna set up for anyone.
If he's traded, he'll do what he's told. And he was a set-up man for a long time.
terminator
11-18-05, 02:16 PM
I think that is one of the conditions Wagner has stated to anyone looking to sign him - he wants to be demoted.
:roflmao: :roflmao:
HouseThatRingsBuild
11-18-05, 02:38 PM
Starting Rotation
1. Randy Johnson, L
2. Mike Mussina, R
3. Shawn Chacon, R
4. Jaret Wright, R
5. Chien-Ming Wang, R
Bullpen
Closer: Mariano Rivera, R
Setup: Eddie Guardado*, L
Middle: Bob Howry, R
Middle: Tanyon Sturtze, R
LOOGY: Ricardo Rincon, L
Long: Aaron Small, R
* Acquired in trade for Carl Pavano
Get it done, Cashman!
Ricon sucks
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-18-05, 02:49 PM
Ricon sucks
Limited to lefties, he's quite effective.
swityak11
11-18-05, 02:58 PM
the way the yankees to get back at ryan is to sign a good reliever now and making noise that can be read as they are going the other way. Maybe this will bring out the true intention of ryan if he just wants more money from the yankees. The yankees should not wait for him, they should force him to decide earlier.Ryan may eliminate the Yankees earlier but he has no need to decide where he's going earlier. He has plenty of suitors that will to throw both money and the closer role at him.
I don't see how that is getting back at him.
nyg02005
11-18-05, 03:03 PM
Ryan may eliminate the Yankees earlier but he has no need to decide where he's going earlier. He has plenty of suitors that will to throw both money and the closer role at him.
I don't see how that is getting back at him.
At least the yankess will know his true intention and if he is not coming, they can offer the other reliever a chance to be a setup man. Again, every reliever wants to be a setup man and not just a specialist and offering them a chance to be one will increase the chance of signing them.
SubwayFanatic
11-18-05, 03:04 PM
Well i guess if he is so sensitive that he cant pitch at the biggest stage of baseball , then screw him . He can take pavano with him whereever he wants to go . How come all the players making millions of dollars be so scared like chickensh**, so scared of pressure . Shame on these players if they are running away from pressure .
I can kind of see your point, but I think we forget at times that these players have feelings. It's easy to just say, "Suck it up" because they are making millions of dollars, but I can honestly see how some of them would not feel that comfortable coming to see a city like New York or Boston where they would be constantly scrutinized.
I would respect a guy like Ryan more if he actually did not come to NY if he truly did not want to, rather than just take the money, come here and be me miserable, and then be begging for a trade.
destiNY
11-18-05, 03:06 PM
According to this article anyway
http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,1324844.story?coll=ny-yankees-bigpix
ah I read that this morning as well. No bullpen means no shot at a World Series, we need to figure something out.
Slidemaster
11-18-05, 03:16 PM
ah I read that this morning as well. No bullpen means no shot at a World Series, we need to figure something out.
Well, you guys need to figure something out. I'm an O's fan, meaning we have to figure a TON of things out, not just one. :D
Not that it's any consolation, but he's not going to come back to Baltimore either I'd bet. Petey won't pay. My guess is he'll end up in Toronto, which is also where I see A.J. Burnett going.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-18-05, 03:18 PM
My guess is he'll end up in Toronto, which is also where I see A.J. Burnett going.
Is Toronto going to move Batista out of the closer's spot?
JavyVazquezIsSick
11-18-05, 03:20 PM
This rumor is so stupid, I can't believe its taking off like it is. Ryan isn't going to lose money over this, if I'm a FA I get the Yankees involved...
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:24 PM
At this point, would it be wise for BJ Ryan to rule out the Yankees? Even if he didn't want to come here, you would think his agent would keep us in the mix if just to set the market price.
He has a ton of teams involved already. I don't think BJ is worried about getting paid. I think it is best to forget about Ryan and think about other options.
highheat2014
11-18-05, 03:28 PM
Is Toronto going to move Batista out of the closer's spot?
For Ryan, most definitely. Batista has way too many pitches for a closer anyway.
Slidemaster
11-18-05, 03:29 PM
Is Toronto going to move Batista out of the closer's spot?
They're talking about it. The reports that I've read have them heavily pursuing Ryan, as well as Burnett. They've apparently already laid out a 5/50 deal in front of him, and a meeting with Ryan is soon to follow. Maybe they'll have Batista set up. Either way, adding those two will make them a much more formidable team. That's 3 pitchers alone on the team that could be perennial all-stars (Halladay, Burnett, and Ryan).
whalers
11-18-05, 03:39 PM
This person "friend close to (insert any free agents name here)" is one hell of a reporter. He's all over the place every offseason. Unfortunantely he is usually wrong.
I'll believe the rumor when I hear BJ or his agent come out and say this.
Archer1979
11-18-05, 03:44 PM
I think that is one of the conditions Wagner has stated to anyone looking to sign him - he wants to be demoted.
:lol: You've hit upon the key point. What is the motivation of a closer that comes to NY to become a setup guy, when he can go to any number of contending teams and still be a closer? Remember, when you guys got Gordon, we was closing but there were very real questions around the league about how much life was left in his arm.
One thing lost in all this is that closers live for that last inning and the buzz of being on the mound for that last out. That's why so many times, you see closers brought in tie situations and end up taking the loss.
They're closers for a reason.
If he's traded, he'll do what he's told. And he was a set-up man for a long time.
Do you really want to get into a situation where the new guy is performing a crucial role of which he wants no part? It's best to sound him out before trading for him. If he's into, they'll go for the trade. If he wants to stay a closer, look elsewhere.
BillBuckner
11-18-05, 03:51 PM
BLANK CHECK. C'mon Georgie. ;)
:lol: You've hit upon the key point. What is the motivation of a closer that comes to NY to become a setup guy, when he can go to any number of contending teams and still be a closer? Remember, when you guys got Gordon, we was closing but there were very real questions around the league about how much life was left in his arm.
One thing lost in all this is that closers live for that last inning and the buzz of being on the mound for that last out. That's why so many times, you see closers brought in tie situations and end up taking the loss.
They're closers for a reason.
Do you really want to get into a situation where the new guy is performing a crucial role of which he wants no part? It's best to sound him out before trading for him. If he's into, they'll go for the trade. If he wants to stay a closer, look elsewhere.
As much as I don't like to admit it, Mo won't last forever---he's, what?, 36?. (I REALLY hate the sound of the first part of that sentence :( ). If you're Ryan, you can know that if you set-up like a good trooper (ala Mo)--and pitch well, of course--, you will eventually be the closer for the New York Yankees.
I'd be surprised if he signs elsewhere (I know--I've been wrong before).
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 04:00 PM
No use in crying over not getting this guy. Sign Farnsworth and Howry.
Bullpen:
Mo
Farnsworth
Howry
Sturtze
Small
Wright
Still an upgrade over last years.
yankees76
11-18-05, 04:17 PM
Hey, we've still got Matt Smith and Scott Proctor. What are we worried about?
Evil Empire
11-18-05, 04:20 PM
No use in crying over not getting this guy. Sign Farnsworth and Howry.
Bullpen:
Mo
Farnsworth
Howry
Sturtze
Small
Wright
Still an upgrade over last years.
Just think though. Ryan makes that soo much better.
destiNY
11-18-05, 04:26 PM
Just think though. Ryan makes that soo much better.
Disaster. Too many questions going into the pen again next year. Resign Gordon and sign Farnsworth and Howry and I'll be happier.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-18-05, 04:26 PM
They're talking about it. The reports that I've read have them heavily pursuing Ryan, as well as Burnett. They've apparently already laid out a 5/50 deal in front of him, and a meeting with Ryan is soon to follow. Maybe they'll have Batista set up. Either way, adding those two will make them a much more formidable team. That's 3 pitchers alone on the team that could be perennial all-stars (Halladay, Burnett, and Ryan).
Interesting. He's pretty expensive to be a set-up guy, especially for a team that's not the yankees or resdsox, so if they do get Ryan, as highheat suggested, I'd expect to see Batista back as a starter.
Evil Empire
11-18-05, 04:29 PM
Disaster. Too many questions going into the pen again next year. Resign Gordon and sign Farnsworth and Howry and I'll be happier.
What questions?
yanks710
11-18-05, 04:34 PM
Well, this sucks. I say we offer him something anyway and see if money changes his mind.
apolansk
11-18-05, 04:34 PM
This person "friend close to (insert any free agents name here)" is one hell of a reporter. He's all over the place every offseason. Unfortunantely he is usually wrong.
I'll believe the rumor when I hear BJ or his agent come out and say this.
For the most part this is true, however when a certain FA comes to New York, and only visits one of the teams there, would you think he would want to come to the other team?
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 04:35 PM
For the most part this is true, however when a certain FA comes to New York, and only visits one of the teams there, would you think he would want to come to the other team?
Was he invited?
Archer1979
11-18-05, 04:38 PM
As much as I don't like to admit it, Mo won't last forever---he's, what?, 36?. (I REALLY hate the sound of the first part of that sentence :( ). If you're Ryan, you can know that if you set-up like a good trooper (ala Mo)--and pitch well, of course--, you will eventually be the closer for the New York Yankees.
I'd be surprised if he signs elsewhere (I know--I've been wrong before).
Rivera's a machine. I'm betting he lasts longer than any other closer out there on the market.
Looking around the league, there's not even a handful of dominant closers that last more than three years in the role. I can see Rivera doing that standing on his head.
swityak11
11-18-05, 04:38 PM
I don't think the stress of the Yankees has anything at to do with it. He realizes that he can be the closer of a contending team and still get his money.
As someone said earlier, there's no incentive to take a demotion unless the Yankees blow the offer out of the water. And realisticly why would the Yankees pay $8-10 million per year for a set-up guy?
Yankyfan
11-18-05, 04:56 PM
As i have said ,Being Torre called Scott Eyer and not BJ tells the story.
wileedog
11-18-05, 05:11 PM
And realisticly why would the Yankees pay $8-10 million per year for a set-up guy?
If the idea is to make him the heir-apparent at closer in a year or two than I don't see why not. You may be over-paying him up front, but assuming his production remains steady you may be getting decent value at the end.
Sounds kind of irrelevant though... :(
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 05:16 PM
Just think though. Ryan makes that soo much better.
Oh, I definitely agree. I wanted Ryan more than anything going into the offseason but if he's not going to come then we can't do anything about that. I have faith that Cashman will do the best he can with the bullpen situation.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 05:17 PM
Disaster. Too many questions going into the pen again next year. Resign Gordon and sign Farnsworth and Howry and I'll be happier.
If Gordon continues to want a 3 year deal, I wouldn't want to sign him at all. Either way, we have 2 spots in our pen next year. I think that Farnsworth can do as good of a job as Flash did for us last year and Howry will be an improvement over Sturtze.
They're talking about it. The reports that I've read have them heavily pursuing Ryan, as well as Burnett. They've apparently already laid out a 5/50 deal in front of him, and a meeting with Ryan is soon to follow. Maybe they'll have Batista set up. Either way, adding those two will make them a much more formidable team. That's 3 pitchers alone on the team that could be perennial all-stars (Halladay, Burnett, and Ryan).
Ryan was already in Toronto and the word from both sides was that it was just a perfunctory meetin and that it was very unlikely he would end up there
For the most part this is true, however when a certain FA comes to New York, and only visits one of the teams there, would you think he would want to come to the other team?
For all we know, the Yankees may have told Ryan's agent "hey, go out and get your best offer -- then come to us last so we can beat it"....I believe they've done that in the past, and by now I would think that strategy is pretty much protocol...
For all we know, the Yankees may have told Ryan's agent "hey, go out and get your best offer -- then come to us last so we can beat it"....I believe they've done that in the past, and by now I would think that strategy is pretty much protocol...
Serious question: how would the Yanks know that the agent wasn't lying about the offer(s) amount?
Stupid Flanders
11-18-05, 05:44 PM
As i have said ,Being Torre called Scott Eyer and not BJ tells the story.Don't worry, if he does sign here I'm sure Joe will call him 162 times next season
Serious question: how would the Yanks know that the agent wasn't lying about the offer(s) amount?
I've always wondered about that myself, but yet I've heard several times over the years that's how they operate. Face it, all this negotiating revolves around who's got the best poker face, who's bluffing, who's willing to concede first. The only thing I can compare it to is dealing with a used car salesman, trying to talk him down for a car that you're actually willing to pay more for....inevitably, it comes down to who breaks first....
TalkYank
11-18-05, 05:53 PM
Ugh! Another player that doesn't want to come to the Yanks because of stress...
The Q Bomb
11-18-05, 05:56 PM
I feel Scott Proctor could be a very good starting pitcher - but don't feel he will excel in a relief role (as indicated by his past performances). It does stink that Ryan does not want to set-up for The Yanks - I kind of had that vibe all along. This may force The Yankees to really look at drafting and developing a pitcher for that role. I know that doesn't help us now or in the next 2 or 3 years, but it seems like the only recipe for a good closer is to start young with a team. I think that's even more so the case with The Yankees as even our bat boys are under pressure - no less a closer. If you aren't raised in this environment you could have serious "performance anxiety".
Yankyfan
11-18-05, 06:11 PM
Better to find out now then 4 years and 42 mill later. :D
Yankyfan
11-18-05, 06:15 PM
Hey how about Henn and Smith.Why is it we have to have our backs against the wall before we give our prospects a real shot?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:17 PM
So you are all giving up hope? Since when is Newsday and "a friend of BJ Ryan" the be all end all of sports news? Remember how many times the Randy Johnson trade was "off for good" last year?
He's not coming. Newsday has always been on top of the Yankee news and is usually the first paper to get the info. They are the ones that first announced the original RJ trade (the 3 way deal that ended up falling through because DePodesta got cold feet) and they are on top of this. The fact that he didn't visit the Yankees speaks volumes, along with the fact that Torre did not call Ryan but did call Eyre and Giles.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:17 PM
Hey how about Henn and Smith.Why is it we have to have our backs against the wall before we give our prospects a real shot?
They can get a shot, but we need to bring someone in for the 8th inning role if we lose Gordon (and we shouldn't give in to his 3 year demand).
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:20 PM
This person "friend close to (insert any free agents name here)" is one hell of a reporter. He's all over the place every offseason. Unfortunantely he is usually wrong.
I'll believe the rumor when I hear BJ or his agent come out and say this.
Yeah, I'm sure BJ and his agent are going to make sure that everyone knows the Yankees have no chance... Even if you don't believe the "friend close to" stuff (and I don't know why you wouldn't) if you just see what has happened, it isn't hard to put two and two together.
He's not coming. Newsday has always been on top of the Yankee news and is usually the first paper to get the info. They are the ones that first announced the original RJ trade (the 3 way deal that ended up falling through because DePodesta got cold feet) and they are on top of this. The fact that he didn't visit the Yankees speaks volumes, along with the fact that Torre did not call Ryan but did call Eyre and Giles.
I'd like to see their actual track record. I'd be willing to bet Newsday throws just about as much crap out there as nearly any other Paper.
The stuff these Papers report that is totally false is far far more that the stuff that is true (especially during the baseball off-season).
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:32 PM
I'd like to see their actual track record. I'd be willing to bet Newsday throws just about as much crap out there as nearly any other Paper.
The stuff these Papers report that is totally false is far far more that the stuff that is true (especially during the baseball off-season).
I've noticed that Newsday is quick to the punch with reporting when a deal gets done and I trust them more than other papers. They seem to be right more often than not.
And hey, we will see if they were right about this one, but if you just look at the info (Torre not calling Ryan but calling Eyre and Giles, BJ not coming to visit the Yankees, the fact that he would be taking a demotion and the money won't be different) it makes sense.
I'd like to see their actual track record. I'd be willing to bet Newsday throws just about as much crap out there as nearly any other Paper.
The stuff these Papers report that is totally false is far far more that the stuff that is true (especially during the baseball off-season).
Amen.
ring403
11-18-05, 06:36 PM
Well, this sucks. I say we offer him something anyway and see if money changes his mind.
If the reports of Ryan wanting no part of the Yankees are indeed true, why in the world should the organization try to talk him into reconsidering? Do we really want to see a repeat of the Pavano mess? If a guy's heart isn't in it, he likely isn't going to perform at an optimal level. How about we try to concentrate on guys who are interested in putting on the pinstripes, instead of wasting time on someone who isn't?
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 06:46 PM
If the reports of Ryan wanting no part of the Yankees are indeed true, why in the world should the organization try to talk him into reconsidering? Do we really want to see a repeat of the Pavano mess? If a guy's heart isn't in it, he likely isn't going to perform at an optimal level. How about we try to concentrate on guys who are interested in putting on the pinstripes, instead of wasting time on someone who isn't?
Ryan is so much better than everyone else on the market, he's definitely worth at least a shot in the dark.
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 06:52 PM
Do we really want to see a repeat of the Pavano mess?
Oh John...not you too. Sigh.
(Agree with everything else.)
Yankees1962
11-18-05, 07:58 PM
If the reports of Ryan wanting no part of the Yankees are indeed true, why in the world should the organization try to talk him into reconsidering? Do we really want to see a repeat of the Pavano mess? If a guy's heart isn't in it, he likely isn't going to perform at an optimal level. How about we try to concentrate on guys who are interested in putting on the pinstripes, instead of wasting time on someone who isn't?
I was listening to XM Radio's Home Plate today with Rob Dibble who comes from the same area of Connecticut that Pavano does and is somewhat related to Pavano through marriage. He stated that Pavano told him back early in the year that the New York press is always after him for stories and that they stretch the little information they have in their articles and blow it up bigger than it really is. In otherwords, I would take the articles about Ryan and Pavano intentions with a large grain of salt first before accepting these articles as fact. This is not to say that they might have some misgivings about being a Yankee, but I would venture a guess that's probably true for any of the current Yankees.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 08:18 PM
I think that Cashman has a better handle on a player's true desires than we do. I've seen it questioned here why Cashmans is pursuing Giles who's desire to come here is in question and the apparent lack of energy toward Ryan. Well could it be that Cashman's information is that Giles may be an option and that Ryan wanting to close and not set up is legit? If he spends considerable energy pursuing a player that doesn't want to be here and in the process, the other options sign elsewhere, this will be a very bad post-season.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:12 PM
Without Ryan, I'm not sure what the answer is or how it'll get better. I have absolutely no faith in the Yankee's ability to evaluate good pitching. Here's a list off the top of my head of some of the pitchers we got via FA or trade. For every Chacon (who was expected to be a 5th and spot starter) there's a Denny Neagle, Jay Witasick, Mark Wohlers, Jeff Weaver, Chris Hammond, Antonio Osuna, Juan Acevedo, Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Armando Benitez, Jeff Nelson II, Dan Miceli, Jesse Orosco, Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Esteban Loaiza, C.J. Nitkowski, Carl Pavano, Tim Redding
Darrell May, Alan Embree.
Pretty f'n scary, huh?
Without Ryan, I'm not sure what the answer is or how it'll get better. I have absolutely no faith in the Yankees ability to evaluate good pitching. Here's a list off the top of my head of some of the pitchers we got via FA or trade. For every Chacon (who was expected to be a 5th and spot starter) there's a Denny Neagle, Jay Witasick, Mark Wohlers, Jeff Weaver, Chris Hammond, Antonio Osuna, Juan Acevedo, Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Armando Benitez, Jeff Nelson II, Dan Miceli, Jesse Orosco, Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Esteban Loaiza, C.J. Nitkowski, Carl Pavano, Tim Redding
Darrell May, Alan Embree.
Pretty f'n scary, huh?
A lot, if not most, of those guys have sucked everywhere they've pitched.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:16 PM
A lot, if not most, of those guys have sucked everywhere they've pitched.
Too bad Cashman/Yanks/Tampa didn't find out till they got them.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:19 PM
Without Ryan, I'm not sure what the answer is or how it'll get better. I have absolutely no faith in the Yankee's ability to evaluate good pitching. Here's a list off the top of my head of some of the pitchers we got via FA or trade. For every Chacon (who was expected to be a 5th and spot starter) there's a Denny Neagle, Jay Witasick, Mark Wohlers, Jeff Weaver, Chris Hammond, Antonio Osuna, Juan Acevedo, Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Armando Benitez, Jeff Nelson II, Dan Miceli, Jesse Orosco, Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Esteban Loaiza, C.J. Nitkowski, Carl Pavano, Tim Redding
Darrell May, Alan Embree.
Pretty f'n scary, huh?
Loaiza was Elsmlie. I'm not counting Redding and May as the only reason they even entered the picture is we had FOUR starting pitchers down at the same time and Senn Henn proved unready. I think you could compile a similiar list of pitchers like that on just about any major league roster over a similiar time-frame. Man, you really do hate Cashman, don't you?
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:20 PM
Loaiza was Elsmlie. I'm not counting Redding and May as the only reason they even entered the picture is we had FOUR starting pitchers down at the same time and Senn Henn proved unready. I think you could compile a similiar list of pitchers like that on just about any major league roster over a similiar time-frame.
Loaiza was Cashman's. I can find a link to the same story I keep posting over and over if you want. :lol:
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 09:21 PM
Too bad Cashman/Yanks/Tampa didn't find out till they got them.
Most of the guys on that list were brought in to perform in extremely minor roles, or in an emergency. And some of them, like Benitez, were good.
ring403
11-18-05, 09:22 PM
Without Ryan, I'm not sure what the answer is or how it'll get better. I have absolutely no faith in the Yankee's ability to evaluate good pitching. With Gene Michael back in charge of major league scouting, I'm very confident that we're not going to be seeing the Yankees courting any Eric Milton's this offseason.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:22 PM
Loaiza was Elsmlie. I'm not counting Redding and May as the only reason they even entered the picture is we had FOUR starting pitchers down at the same time and Senn Henn proved unready. I think you could compile a similiar list of pitchers like that on just about any major league roster over a similiar time-frame. Man, you really do hate Cashman, don't you?
By the way, did I not mention Yanks and Tampa as well? Cashman is partly to blame but I didn't single him out. Evaluating pitchers is not a Yankee strong point.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:22 PM
Loaiza was Cashman's. I can find a link to the same story I keep posting over and over if you want. :lol:
Elmsie is the one that wanted Loaiza. Elmslie is also the one that wouldn't trade Contreras for Reed when had the chance.
Too bad Cashman/Yanks/Tampa didn't find out till they got them.
The only ones that required a substantial investment were Neagle, Vazquez, and Weaver. I supported trading for the later two, and so did a lot of baseball people.
Trading Contreras may turn out to have been the biggest mistake, and I was dead set against it at the time it was made.
I think Benitez could have been a good acquisiton if Torre had used him correctly.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:23 PM
By the way, did I not mention Yanks and Tampa as well? Cashman is partly to blame but I didn't single him out.
you did, but the number you listed over the past five years or so is no bigger/smaller than most teams in the league.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:24 PM
The only ones that required a substantial investment were Neagle, Vazquez, and Weaver. I supported trading for the later two, and so did a lot of baseball people.
Trading Contreras may turn out to have been the biggest mistake, and I was dead set against it at the time it was made.
I think Benitez could have been a good acquisiton if Torre had used him correctly.
Agree on Benitez. I think one of the Yank's bigger mistakes (at the time) was agreeing to the Uribe deal and then walking away from it, citing a "failed" physical when every other doctor who examined him said his arm had normal wear and tear for a pitcher.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:28 PM
you did, but the number you listed over the past five years or so is no bigger/smaller than most teams in the league.
I think that most other teams find more "winners" in such a large group. One that I'm sure you know still pisses me off was not going after Colon, a FA, without giving up players, and instead they gave up NJ and Rivera for Javy. Huge mistake. I knew it was a huge one when they let Colon slip away.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:28 PM
most of the guys on that list are guys that were not big signees and not expected to fill any sizable role. To make a big deal of getting them as a "failure" of evaluating good pitching is not fair.
Agree on Benitez. I think one of the Yank's bigger mistakes (at the time) was agreeing to the Uribe deal and then walking away from it, citing a "failed" physical when every other doctor who examined him said his arm had normal wear and tear for a pitcher.
Do you mean Urbina?
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:31 PM
I think that most other teams find more "winners" in such a large group. One that I'm sure you know still pisses me off was not going after Colon, a FA, without giving up players, and instead giving up NJ and Rivera for Javy. Huge mistake. I knew it was a huge one when they let Colon slip away.
As did we. For most of the time, we had Clemens and Pettitte in addition to a younger Mussina. Not to mention a more complete pen. When those pitchers left we had to replace them the best we can and Colon has done more than I thought he would. At that time he was an overweight pitcher that had yet to reach the level expected. In that group, most of them were not intended to be "winners", a lot were never expected to be a factor. There has never been the GM that has attained the perfection you seem to demand.
ring403
11-18-05, 09:31 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-gordon&prov=ap&type=lgns
It appears that Yankees are having trouble convincing pitchers who could close for other teams, such as B.J. Ryan, to come to New York in a less prominent role.
"When you have guys who have the potential to be closers and you're asking them to set up, even though it's not an embarrassment to set up for Mariano, you're wondering if the market -- if that's the right thing for them to do," Torre said. "You hope that the fact that you're going to have a chance to win with our ballclub could help sway them a little bit."
Former Baltimore manager Lee Mazzilli, back with the Yankees as the bench coach, is willing to speak to Ryan.
"I'd like to if I can get in touch with him," he said. "I think this week is probably, for any free agent is a crazy week, when you go see a lot of clubs."
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:32 PM
most of the guys on that list are guys that were not big signees and not expected to fill any sizable role. To make a big deal of getting them as a "failure" of evaluating good pitching is not fair.
Look over it again. Remeber, I'm sure we can double this list, for it was off the top of my head. There are a few major starters - Neagle, Javy, Brown, and Pavano. We were to rely on these relievers as major players: Heredia, Witasick, Osuna, Acevedo, White, Benitez, etc. So they weren't just to fill the roster
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:33 PM
Do you mean Urbina?
Yes, sorry, Urbina
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:33 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-gordon&prov=ap&type=lgns
Well, this certainly gives more creedence to the Newsday article. Time to concentrate on relievers that are interested in coming here.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-gordon&prov=ap&type=lgns
The question is: Are they offering closer money?
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:35 PM
Look over it again. Remeber, I'm sure we can double this list, for it was off the top of my head. There are a few major starters - Neagle, Javy, Brown, and Pavano. We were to rely on these relievers as major players: Heredia, Witasick, Osuns, Acevedo, White, Benitez, etc. So they weren't just to fill the roster
The starters, I agree with, the relievers, none of them to me were ever big deals. Benitez was not used right and the one reliever I would say could qualify. And you pointed out Colon, well there were 28 other teams that equally screwed up.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:37 PM
Well, this certainly gives more creedence to the Newsday article. Time to concentrate on relievers that are interested in coming here.
Then there is no other answer than to re-sign Gordon, I suppose, who is at least listening to the Yanks advances. 3 years for a 38 year old pitcher is risky, but he's the best alternative right now.
I think we can get Farnsworth for middle relief. I at least hope we can.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:38 PM
The starters, I agree with, the relievers, none of them to me were ever big deals. Benitez was not used right and the one reliever I would say could qualify. And you pointed out Colon, well there were 28 other teams that equally screwed up.
With he money the Yanks were throwing around at the time, Colon would have been a Yankee if they weren't so obsessed with going after Javy. Colon and his agent publicly stated that he desired to be a Yankee over any other team, but we all know that means squat.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:39 PM
Then there is no other answer than to re-sign Gordon, I suppose, who is at least listening to the Yanks advances. 3 years for a 38 year old pitcher is risky, but he's the best alternative right now.
I think we can get Farnsworth for middle relief. I at least hope we can.
Signing Ryan alone would have put us in the same boat as this year anyway, two trustworthy guys and nothing else. Better to use the money on multiple relievers. If we could get Ryan at a rate to where we could also go out and get another trustworthy middle reliever, then that's fine.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:41 PM
Signing Ryan alone would have put us in the same boat as this year anyway, two trustworthy guys and nothing else. Better to use the money on multiple relievers. If we could get Ryan at a rate to where we could also go out and get another trustworthy middle reliever, then that's fine.
GR, the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. If we can re-sign Gordon and get a Farnsworth, who I believe is ready to thrive, that'll take the load off of Gordon to an extent.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:42 PM
With he money the Yanks were throwing around at the time, Colon would have been a Yankee if they weren't so obsessed with going after Javy. Colon and his agent publicly stated that he desired to be a Yankee over any other team, but we all know that means squat.
One, we finally lost the US Congress as our GM. It is now Brian CAshman in charge and not the two dozen people and their secretaries making decisions now. I don't think any GM could have operated under the lunacy King George had going. Second, just about everyone here and in baseball applauded the Yankee trade for Vazquez (even Curt Schilling said the Yanks were right to get Javy than him) and also criticized the Angels for the contract they gave to a pitcher like Colon who until that point was anything but consistent. Monday morning QBing.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:43 PM
GR, the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. If we can re-sign Gordon and get a Farnsworth, who I believe is ready to thrive, that'll take the load off of Gordon to an extent.
I'd offer Gordon 2 years and an option for a third, go after Farnsworth or Howry and our pen is very much improved over last year. Sturtze won't have to pitch so much, same with Gordon.
Signing Ryan alone would have put us in the same boat as this year anyway, two trustworthy guys and nothing else. Better to use the money on multiple relievers. If we could get Ryan at a rate to where we could also go out and get another trustworthy middle reliever, then that's fine.
Signing Ryan would give the Yankees an heir apparent to Rivera in addition to the best set up man in baseball in the mean time. They should still push hard to sign him despite what Newsday & Yahoo says.
Stupid Flanders
11-18-05, 09:49 PM
I think Benitez could have been a good acquisiton if Torre had used him correctly.You might as well have asked for the sky to be green or for me to poop rainbows
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:49 PM
Signing Ryan would give the Yankees an heir apparent to Rivera in addition to the best set up man in baseball in the mean time. They should still push hard to sign him despite what Newsday & Yahoo says.
For that, I agree, however for 2006, we need to sign Ryan AND another one, or we will have the same story in 2006 as in 04 and 05, a tired Rivera/Ryan. Trust me, if we can get Ryan, I want him bad, but I doubt he would take a set up role if he can get same money to close, and him alone isn't enough, we need a stronger supporting cast.
For that, I agree, however for 2006, we need to sign Ryan AND another one, or we will have the same story in 2006 as in 04 and 05, a tired Rivera/Ryan. Trust me, if we can get Ryan, I want him bad, but I doubt he would take a set up role if he can get same money to close, and him alone isn't enough, we need a stronger supporting cast.
I didn't say anything about only signing Ryan.
The Boss needs to set up a meeting with Mr. Ryan and make him a Yankee.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 09:53 PM
Signing Ryan would give the Yankees an heir apparent to Rivera in addition to the best set up man in baseball in the mean time. They should still push hard to sign him despite what Newsday & Yahoo says.
John, I'm in 100% agreement with you on sportswriters. Newsday prints crap and Yahoo picks up on it. Typical. Then they use a quote that may or may not have been taken out of context.
It won't hurt to try to go after Ryan, for reasons you've stated, even if it takes some convincing and George gets involved. GS gets what he wants somehow. Like I said in an earlier post, does anyone remember how disappointed Paul O'Neill was when he was traded from his hometown to NY? Boy, did his feelings change after playing here. I can't think of another player who personifies the pinstripes as much as O'Neill.
If Ryan is adamant about not coming here, then we need to go after Gordon, who despite some memorable meltdowns is considered the top set-up guy in baseball by many. Not too shabby. Then we need to get a Farnsworth or Howry and I believe we'll be alright. We'll just have to wait for Mo's replacement. Who knows, maybe it'll even come from the farm in JB Cox or Josh Schmidt. That'll be even more rewarding.
If Ryan doesn't sign with the Yankees can Guidry be the Bullpen Coach and Kerrigan be the Pitching Coach?
Get Ryan. Get him before Thanksgiving.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 09:58 PM
I didn't say anything about only signing Ryan.
The Boss needs to set up a meeting with Mr. Ryan and make him a Yankee.
I know, but Cashman will know more than you or I whether or not Ryan would consider coming here. If he thinks he would, I have every confidence he will do what it takes to get him. If he doesn't, I'd rather him spend time on realistic options. If you ignore all the articles, from ones saying he wants to come here and ones saying he doesn't and just look at the situation. I can't think of one closer in their prime that voluntarily took a demotion to set-up in recent history. And he will get closer's options so just based upon that makes me believe that it is more likely that he would not want to come here. I hope he does, but I doubt it.
I know, but Cashman will know more than you or I whether or not Ryan would consider coming here. If he thinks he would, I have every confidence he will do what it takes to get him. If he doesn't, I'd rather him spend time on realistic options. If you ignore all the articles, from ones saying he wants to come here and ones saying he doesn't and just look at the situation. I can't think of one closer in their prime that voluntarily took a demotion to set-up in recent history. And he will get closer's options so just based upon that makes me believe that it is more likely that he would not want to come here. I hope he does, but I doubt it.
There are plenty of people other than Cashman who can spend time convincing Ryan how great it would be to be a Yankee.
Torre
Maz
The Boss
Guidry
Overwhelm this guy and make him a Yankee.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:05 PM
you did, but the number you listed over the past five years or so is no bigger/smaller than most teams in the league.
I was just thinking. In the past few years, while the Yanks got ONE decent relief pitcher in Gordon, look at what the Sox have done, despite their relief pitchers awful showing in 2005.
Again, off the top of my head: Williamson, Timlin, Sauerback, Embree (he WAS good), Urbina, Foulke, Myers. I'm sure there are more. Compare that to the Yanks who either are incompetent in assessing pitching talent and/or are asleep at the wheel. I think both.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:06 PM
There are plenty of people other than Cashman who can spend time convincing Ryan how great it would be to be a Yankee.
Torre
Maz
The Boss
Guidry
Overwhelm this guy and make him a Yankee.
I want them to make every effort, but this is where I want Cashman to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Keep the eye on doors B and C even when pursuing door number A. The Yanks should use every option to get Ryan, but be ready to pounce the second he signs.
I was just thinking. In the past few years, while the Yanks got ONE decent relief pitcher in Gordon, look at what the Sox have done, despite their relief pitchers awful showing in 2005.
Again, off the top of my head: Williamson, Timlin, Embree (he WAS good), Urbina, Foulke, Myers. I'm sure there are more. Compare that to the Yanks who either are incompetent in assessing pitching talent and/or are asleep at the wheel. I think both.
...and the guy at the helm who has no idea how to utilize a full bull pen enters into this equation.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:08 PM
I want them to make every effort, but this is where I want Cashman to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Keep the eye on doors B and C even when pursuing door number A. The Yanks should use every option to get Ryan, but be ready to pounce the second he signs.
Guidry and George are the Yank's best hope. All three go out to Tampa's best Cajun restaurant and sign on the spot.
Guidry and George are the Yank's best hope. All three go out to Tampa's best Cajun restaurant and sign on the spot.
Bring Mo along for the meeting.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:09 PM
I was just thinking. In the past few years, while the Yanks got ONE decent relief pitcher in Gordon, look at what the Sox have done, despite their relief pitchers awful showing in 2005.
Again, off the top of my head: Williamson, Timlin, Embree (he WAS good), Urbina, Foulke, Myers. I'm sure there are more. Compare that to the Yanks who either are incompetent in assessing pitching talent and/or are asleep at the wheel. I think both.
Again, I blame this on the Tampa peabrains clouding up things. Now that there is one man in charge (as it should be in any competent organization) I expect things to change. There is no doubt in the pen the Yanks have been bad. That is about to change.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:09 PM
...and the guy at the helm who has no idea how to utilize a full bull pen enters into this equation.
Exactly. And don't forget Mel, the @ss-slapper. It's a no-win.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:10 PM
Guidry and George are the Yank's best hope. All three go out to Tampa's best Cajun restaurant and sign on the spot.
and while they are at it, we should try to get Lidge and Hoffman to pitch the 5th and 6th. There's no reason to not try it, but it sounds like there is a belief that if the Yanks snap their hands, anyone will come. But there is no reason to not at least try.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:11 PM
Bring Mo along for the meeting.
GREAT idea. Mo is a no bs sort and will tell BJ exactly where it's at. Show BJ the light; the honor it would be to set-up for the greatest reliever in the history of the sport and that he'll eventually walk in his shoes in the greatest baseball city on the planet. GS could provide all the dramatics. It can't hurt.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 10:12 PM
Get Ryan. Get him before Thanksgiving.
That's less than a week from now.
Maybe Cashman can arrange to have Thanksgiving dinner at BJ Ryan's house.
Maybe that'll help.
(Seriously...I totally agree with you. Put the full-court press on Ryan. Present the whole Yankee package -- the history, the legend, Mystique AND Aura...and, of course, the money. Make it seem like he'd be a fool if he signed anywhere else.)
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:13 PM
and while they are at it, we should try to get Lidge and Hoffman to pitch the 5th and 6th. There's no reason to not try it, but it sounds like there is a belief that if the Yanks snap their hands, anyone will come. But there is no reason to not at least try.
The prospect of getting BJ is real. Men have been known to change their minds after some reasoning.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:13 PM
That's less than a week from now.
Maybe Cashman can arrange to have Thanksgiving dinner at BJ Ryan's house.
Maybe that'll help.
(Seriously...I totally agree with you. Put the full-court press on Ryan. Present the whole Yankee package -- the history, the legend, Mystique AND Aura...and, of course, the money. Make it seem like he'd be a fool if he signed anywhere else.)
This should definitely be the approach, but with the realization that Plan B is a strong possibility.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:15 PM
The prospect of getting BJ is real. Men have been known to change their minds after some reasoning.
Could be, worth looking at, but I would say there is a 80-20 probablity of him closing somewhere. But again, we should try.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 10:15 PM
This should definitely be the approach, but with the realization that Plan B is a strong possibility.I think that Cashman can walk and chew gum at the same time.
He also has a staff of people who can be working on the Plan B guys while he concentrates on Ryan.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:17 PM
I think that Cashman can walk and chew gum at the same time.
He also has a staff of people who can be working on the Plan B guys while he concentrates on Ryan.
I know. And I know he's doing just that.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:21 PM
Now is the time to put the full court press on whomever the Yanks think will fill needs, while the Sox are scrambling to find a GM.
This should definitely be the approach, but with the realization that Plan B is a strong possibility.
You seem resigned to the fact that Ryan doesn't want to come to the Yankees because an article in Newsday said he wants to close.
I believe a Newspaper Article when the deal is signed.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 10:44 PM
You seem resigned to the fact that Ryan doesn't want to come to the Yankees because an article in Newsday said he wants to close.
I believe a Newspaper Article when the deal is signed.
There's a reason why Torre isn't calling him and I hear Torre confirmed the story at his dinner tonight... I just wouldn't get your hopes up.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 10:50 PM
You seem resigned to the fact that Ryan doesn't want to come to the Yankees because an article in Newsday said he wants to close.
I believe a Newspaper Article when the deal is signed.
If you read my posts, you will see the Newsday article has nothing to do with my thinking that way, nor do I think we should stop pursuing him. I just don't think he's coming here. I'm just looking at the long list of zero of closers in their prime voluntarily going to set-up from a closer's role, that and that alone is the basis of my opinion.
nyg02005
11-18-05, 10:55 PM
Loaiza was Cashman's. I can find a link to the same story I keep posting over and over if you want. :lol:
We should have traded contreras for jeremy reed and olivo instead of loaiza.
YankClipper5
11-18-05, 11:44 PM
Eh, while the desire to close may be there, champion tradition and big money go a long way, when he signs elsewhere I will be disappointed, but only when that happens. Supposedly this contract is it for Mo so it isn't like he is resigned to permanently being a setup man. I think securing CF will be critical to free agent signings as FAs guage how successful the team will be.
ring403
11-18-05, 11:49 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051118&content_id=1270411&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
With Eyre off the market, the relief pitching options may start getting thin. B.J. Ryan has made it known that he wants to sign somewhere as a closer, which essentially eliminates the Yankees from that competition.
"When you have guys who have the potential to be closers and you're asking them to set up -- even though it's no embarrassment to set up for Mariano [Rivera] -- you're wondering if that's the right thing for them to do," Torre said. "You hope that the fact you're going to have a chance to win with our ballclub could help sway them a little bit."
"It's a tough decision on his part, what he wants to do, whether to be a closer or to compliment Mo," said bench coach Lee Mazzilli, who handed Ryan the closer's job in Baltimore last season. "I know where I'd like him to be."
With Ryan apparently out of the picture, that leaves Kyle Farnsworth, Bobby Howry and Ricardo Rincon as three of the prime candidates for New York.
Who wouldn't want to be a closer for a team that loses to the Yankees?
AMYanks
11-18-05, 11:59 PM
I'd expect a push for Rincon and Howry, now. Farnsworth is probably an option, as well.
With Gene Michael back in charge of major league scouting, I'm very confident that we're not going to be seeing the Yankees courting any Eric Milton's this offseason.
And we have Cashman to thank for bringing him back.
Yankees1962
11-19-05, 04:07 AM
Who wouldn't want to be a closer for a team that loses to the Yankees?
The Yankees haven't won a WS in five years so the aura of pitching for the Yankees isn't as great as it was in 2000. Yankee fans need to stop the nonsense that being a Yankee is the end all for major league baseball players. IMO, the New York media is a pain in the butt, the pressure that you have to win the WS or your season is not a success can become unbearable for certain players and Yankee fans are not a likeable bunch that all players would want to play in front of. In short, the Yankee environment might not be the best atmosphere for many ballplayers and frankly, I can't blame them.
StatenIslandYankee
11-19-05, 05:06 AM
Who wouldn't want to be a closer for a team that loses to the Yankees?
Because the Yankees have done so much WINNING lately?
ring403
11-19-05, 07:48 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spyanks194519438nov19,0,5113110.story?coll=ny-sports-print
Torre confirmed that free- agent reliever B.J. Ryan is essentially off the Yankees' radar screen for now, as the lefthander wants to pursue closing opportunities elsewhere. He also noted that his call to another top bullpen target, Scott Eyre, didn't do much good, as Eyre has signed a three-year, $11-million contract with the Cubs.
Torre never even bothered calling Ryan, as the Yankees never entered serious negotiations with him. "Yeah, I think so," Torre said when asked if Ryan wants to close. "But what's interesting in this thing is, things change day to day."
Matsui55
11-19-05, 08:14 AM
Because the Yankees have done so much WINNING lately?
Like Detroit, Toronto and the Mets have (the teams he has visited and expressed the most interest in)? This is all about $$$$$ folks.
Closers make closer money, Ryan wants closer $$, and Minaya set the bar far too high with the Mets offer to Wagner (about $12M per). The Yanks aren't going to go to $12M per for a guy who might not close during the life of the contract (3 years). Thus, Ryan will go to where he will get that money AND close.
It has NOTHING to do with winning.
Yankyfan
11-19-05, 09:30 AM
I also feel that if they do sign him and promise him the closers role in 07 it might also cause a problem down the road.For all we know Mazzilli might not have endorsed him as well.I think It was said by Evan Roberts of the FAN after living in Baltimore for the last few years and following the O's stated BJ isn't worth closers money.He Stated he Starts to tail off as the year progresses as the stats have shown.Evan said he's better then what we have now of course but not top notch closing material.
mycroft
11-19-05, 09:38 AM
Like I said in my last post, BJ is a good setup guy but as a closer is mediocre at best and certainly wouldn't close for us. We need a steady left handed arm in the pen, one that can throw strikes, and BJ would be great addition in that role.
Yankyfan
11-19-05, 09:42 AM
That"s it in a nut shell but as I have stated better we find this out now then before we give him 3-4 years at 40 mill Ala Mr.I want my mommy Pavano.
Like I said in my last post, BJ is a good setup guy but as a closer is mediocre at best and certainly wouldn't close for us. We need a steady left handed arm in the pen, one that can throw strikes, and BJ would be great addition in that role.
Why would you say he is a mediocre closer?
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-19-05, 10:36 AM
Like I said in my last post, BJ is a good setup guy but as a closer is mediocre at best
You can say it in as many posts as you like, but it still isn't going to be right.
ryanthe13th
11-19-05, 10:54 AM
It looks like we're going to be stuck with Farnsworth. Maybe he and Tanyon Sturtze could team up to take on Gabe Kapler and David Ortiz in a tag team match for the MLB Tag Team Championship.
mycroft
11-19-05, 10:58 AM
You can say it in as many posts as you like, but it still isn't going to be right.
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bal/stats/bal_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=124805
No? really? In 6 years with the Reds and Orioles he has a whopping 42 saves and a 3.54 era. So how does that NOT make him mediocre? Maybe we should get rid of Mariano so he is happy.
Prickly Pete
11-19-05, 11:00 AM
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bal/stats/bal_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=124805
No? really? In 6 years with the Reds and Orioles he has a whopping 42 saves and a 3.54 era. So how does that NOT make him mediocre?
2005 was his first year as a closer: 2.43 ERA, 100 Ks in 70.1 IP, 1.14 WHIP.
yanksphan
11-19-05, 11:03 AM
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bal/stats/bal_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=124805
No? really? In 6 years with the Reds and Orioles he has a whopping 42 saves and a 3.54 era. So how does that NOT make him mediocre? Maybe we should get rid of Mariano so he is happy.
Way to distort the facts. 2005 was his first year of closing. He had a handful opportunities the previous years.
He closed 36 games out of 41 opportunities this year. That's an 89% success rate. Not bad for his first year as a closer in arguably the toughest division in baseball. Mo had a 91% rate this year for comparison's sake.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-19-05, 11:03 AM
No? really? In 6 years with the Reds and Orioles he has a whopping 42 saves and a 3.54 era. So how does that NOT make him mediocre?
Since most of that time he wasn't a closer, it's pretty much irrelevant. If you're going to be critical of a player, you might want to have at least a passing familiarity with the facts.
Maybe we should get rid of Mariano so he is happy.
Who said anything about that? Now you're just compounding the silliness of your posts.
mycroft
11-19-05, 11:03 AM
2005 was his first year as a closer: 2.43 ERA, 100 Ks in 70.1 IP, 1.14 WHIP.
I said I would like him as a setup guy and I always thought he was a good pitcher, not a closer, not for our team anyway. Toronto or Detroit, sure.
mycroft
11-19-05, 11:04 AM
Since most of that time he wasn't a closer, it's pretty much irrelevant. If you're going to be critical of a player, you might want to have at least a passing familiarity with the facts.
Who said anything about that? Now you're just compounding the silliness of your posts.
He has said he wants to close. Any silliness is from him, not me.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-19-05, 11:04 AM
I said I would like him as a setup guy and I always thought he was a good pitcher, not a closer, not for our team anyway.
That's actually very different from what you said. :dunno:
mycroft
11-19-05, 11:05 AM
That's actually very different from what you said. :dunno:
Define for me the word "mediocre".
yanksphan
11-19-05, 11:07 AM
He has said he wants to close. Any silliness is from him, not me.
if 89% success rate is mediocre, and Mo is 91% - is Mo just slightly above average in your mind?
yanksphan
11-19-05, 11:08 AM
Define for me the word "mediocre".
I think your definition of "mediocre" warrants more scrutiny than others...
Prickly Pete
11-19-05, 11:08 AM
Define for me the word "mediocre".
me·di·o·cre : Moderate to inferior in quality; ordinary.
As in, "Mycroft's posts on the subject of B.J. Ryan have been mediocre at best."
mycroft
11-19-05, 11:12 AM
me·di·o·cre : Moderate to inferior in quality; ordinary.
As in, "Mycroft's posts on the subject of B.J. Ryan have been mediocre at best."
v e r y good. Average. So you guys are comparing Ryan to Mo now, and I am being silly. We need a lefty in the to setup Mo and he would be good in that role.
v e r y good. Average. So you guys are comparing Ryan to Mo now, and I am being silly. We need a lefty in the to setup Mo and he would be good in that role.
Do you do this on purpose?
yanksphan
11-19-05, 11:50 AM
v e r y good. Average. So you guys are comparing Ryan to Mo now, and I am being silly. We need a lefty in the to setup Mo and he would be good in that role.
Guys like MacDougal, Fuentes Batista and Dempster are who I would have considered mediocre this year. You really think Ryan should be included in that group?
I only brought the Mo comparison up to put your definition of mediocre into perspective.
You can choose to distort that if you wish, but it's obvious you're afraid to admit your wrong.
I Love Wang
11-19-05, 12:13 PM
v e r y good. Average. So you guys are comparing Ryan to Mo now, and I am being silly. We need a lefty in the to setup Mo and he would be good in that role.
Nobody compared Ryan to Mariano. The point is, he was a very good reliever this year. 2.54era, 1.14 whip, 12.79k/9. Those are all very good. So he would be a very good closer option for anyone looking for a closer. Obviously, for a team that doesn't have a need at closer, like the Yankees, he wouldn't be looked at as an option for that job. But he'd still be good at it if given the job. "Mediocre" doesn't mean "worst than the best player ever in a given role."
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-19-05, 04:49 PM
Nobody compared Ryan to Mariano. The point is, he was a very good reliever this year. 2.54era, 1.14 whip, 12.79k/9. Those are all very good. So he would be a very good closer option for anyone looking for a closer. Obviously, for a team that doesn't have a need at closer, like the Yankees, he wouldn't be looked at as an option for that job. But he'd still be good at it if given the job. "Mediocre" doesn't mean "worst than the best player ever in a given role."
An avalanche of common sense on the subject. ;)
ICEBERG18
11-20-05, 08:45 AM
While B.J. Ryan's agent tells the Yankees they're still alive, Ryan's telling folks he wants to close (and he doesn't love Lee Mazzilli.)
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sphey194519466nov20,0,1212022.column?coll=ny-sports-print
Enough of this. I want BJ Ryan to sign with the Yankees tomorrow. Press Conference on Tuesday.
nyg02005
11-20-05, 11:24 PM
If you are a closer and you are confident of your ablities why would you setup for a team if you can close for other teams and still get your money. If he proves for 3 yrs that he can close, then he will command more money when he becomes a free agent. The reason to get a ring is not anymore appealing bec. the yankees have not won the championship since 2001.
MiamiKat
11-20-05, 11:53 PM
If you are a closer and you are confident of your ablities why would you setup for a team if you can close for other teams and still get your money. If he proves for 3 yrs that he can close, then he will command more money when he becomes a free agent. The reason to get a ring is not anymore appealing bec. the yankees have not won the championship since 2001.
Assuming equal money, wouldn't you want the chance to help the Yankees win their first World Championship since 2000 by setting up for arguably the greatest closer ever to play the game?
Or would you rather close in Detroit?
LuckyLopez
11-21-05, 12:14 AM
That really depends on personal priorities and opinions, doesn't it? Does the guarantee of closing outweigh the "honor" of setting up and potentially replacing a legend? Do you regard the Yankees as having such a stronger chance than the Phillies, Mets, or some other team? Would you rather "help the Yankees win their first World Championship since 2000" or would you rather try and help another team win their first Championship in 20 years or more? You or I may answer one way but there's no inherrent right or wrong answer in there.
StatenIslandYankee
11-21-05, 12:26 AM
Enough of this. I want BJ Ryan to sign with the Yankees tomorrow. Press Conference on Tuesday.
Get it through your head man, he's not coming here.
nyg02005
11-21-05, 12:45 AM
Assuming equal money, wouldn't you want the chance to help the Yankees win their first World Championship since 2000 by setting up for arguably the greatest closer ever to play the game?
Or would you rather close in Detroit?
winning in 1996 was the most gratifying of all the championship bec. of the payroll and few if any big names in the lineup. The point here is there is no guarantee that you will win a championship with the yankees and if he did, he will not have a lot of credits. But the money that he will command in the future if he continues to be a successful closer is far greater than setting up for the yankees.
There are other teams beside detroit the needs a closer. Who knows the red sox may need a closer?
BobbyMurcerFan
11-21-05, 02:23 AM
Like Detroit, Toronto and the Mets have (the teams he has visited and expressed the most interest in)? This is all about $$$$$ folks.
Closers make closer money, Ryan wants closer $$, and Minaya set the bar far too high with the Mets offer to Wagner (about $12M per). The Yanks aren't going to go to $12M per for a guy who might not close during the life of the contract (3 years). Thus, Ryan will go to where he will get that money AND close.
It has NOTHING to do with winning.Is this supported by anything more than a Machiavellian world view, at least as far as MLB is concerned?
Like Detroit, Toronto and the Mets have (the teams he has visited and expressed the most interest in)? This is all about $$$$$ folks.
Closers make closer money, Ryan wants closer $$, and Minaya set the bar far too high with the Mets offer to Wagner (about $12M per). The Yanks aren't going to go to $12M per for a guy who might not close during the life of the contract (3 years). Thus, Ryan will go to where he will get that money AND close.
It has NOTHING to do with winning.
If the Yankees come out with the best deal, he will be here. Winning plays very little in it, and he will give up his closer aspirations for the almighty dollar.
Like they all do.
While B.J. Ryan's agent tells the Yankees they're still alive, Ryan's telling folks he wants to close (and he doesn't love Lee Mazzilli.)
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sphey194519466nov20,0,1212022.column?coll=ny-sports-print
The only way Ryan is going to get the money close to Wagner, is by the Yankees still in it.
What else would you expect his agent to say.
If I was Cashman, I would get him in a room, tell Ryan here is the offer, take it, or it is off the table. Sort of like what KC Royals did with Cone in the mid 1990s.
That really depends on personal priorities and opinions, doesn't it? Does the guarantee of closing outweigh the "honor" of setting up and potentially replacing a legend? Do you regard the Yankees as having such a stronger chance than the Phillies, Mets, or some other team? Would you rather "help the Yankees win their first World Championship since 2000" or would you rather try and help another team win their first Championship in 20 years or more? You or I may answer one way but there's no inherrent right or wrong answer in there.
Actually, I do consider the Yankees chances much better then those of the Phils, Mets, Tigers, Blue Jays, et al. Those teams don't even get to sniff the playoffs, which we have appeared in every year since 1995.
Big difference. You can't win if you don't get to the dance.
Yankees1962
11-21-05, 06:50 AM
If the Yankees come out with the best deal, he will be here. Winning plays very little in it, and he will give up his closer aspirations for the almighty dollar.
Like they all do.
However, the Yankees aren't going to offer him closer money if the price is 10M-12M.
However, the Yankees aren't going to offer him closer money if the price is 10M-12M.
It makes a lot more sense than paying Gordo $5 million per year.
Yankees1962
11-21-05, 07:00 AM
It makes a lot more sense than paying Gordo $5 million per year.
IMO, none of these salaries make much sense.
ring403
11-21-05, 07:05 AM
However, the Yankees aren't going to offer him closer money if the price is 10M-12M.
There is no way the Yankees are going to give Ryan more money than Mo to be a setup man. George has always been very hesitent to set the market price for any player. Paying a setup man $10-12 million per year would throw the pitching market completely out of wack.
Yankees1962
11-21-05, 07:06 AM
There is no way the Yankees are going to give Ryan more money than Mo to be a setup man. George has always been very hesitent to set the market price for any player. Paying a setup man $10-12 million per year would throw the pitching market completely out of wack.
Tell Rich that because I agree with that premise.
Tell Rich that because I agree with that premise.
Two points:
1) Rich made that point weeks ago, but...
2) Rich would bump up Mo's salary.
jnewmark
11-21-05, 07:41 AM
Two points:
1) Rich made that point weeks ago, but...
2) Rich would bump up Mo's salary.
Mo signed his two year $21 million extension last year. It seems like a backhanded way of awarding Mo more money, just so he won't be offended if the Yanks decide to give his heir apparent more money than Mo is currently making. Has this ever been done before?
Mo signed his two year $21 million extension last year. It seems like a backhanded way of awarding Mo more money, just so he won't be offended if the Yanks decide to give his heir apparent more money than Mo is currently making. Has this ever been done before?
I think Thurman got a raise in pay when they signed Reggie.
Yankees1962
11-21-05, 07:46 AM
Two points:
1) Rich made that point weeks ago, but...
2) Rich would bump up Mo's salary.
What exact point did you make weeks ago? Furthermore, I don't see the Yankees bumping up Mo's salary, unless, they're going to discuss another contract extension.
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