View Full Version : BJ Ryan interested in Yankees / Ryan signs with Toronto
sugmasterflex
11-11-05, 02:37 PM
It's going to take 4 yrs/ 32M for Ryan. Get it done.
It's going to take 4 yrs/ 32M for Ryan. Get it done.
Agreed... sign him up now!
Yankee Bulldawg
11-11-05, 04:15 PM
get Ryan signed ASAP
surge511
11-11-05, 04:27 PM
After Matsui is signed, Ryan must be the next priority. He would do wonders for our bullpen.
yanksphan
11-15-05, 09:53 AM
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1132008612147&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064
The one night stopover made in Toronto yesterday by Baltimore Orioles reliever B.J. Ryan will likely be as close as he gets to playing baseball in this city.
Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said Ryan's brief visit to the Rogers Centre with his agent and wife Candace amounted to "a question-and-answer session'' followed by dinner on the town in what will be a multi-city tour for the coveted free agent. With Ryan expected to sign for big dollars with either the New York Yankees or another free-spending team, Ricciardi appears to have a better chance at landing a free agent on the hitting side.
Good to hear...
Cool, BJ got a free dinner out of it.
BillBuckner
11-15-05, 10:10 AM
Gordon wants three years? How old is he? 38 or something?
Forget Flash.
BroadwayBomber55
11-15-05, 10:26 AM
Gordon wants three years? How old is he? 38 or something?
Tom Gordon will be 38 on Nov. 18th.
Martini6196
11-15-05, 10:53 AM
On my way into work yesterday and today Buck Martinez was on XM radio saying how BJ Ryan keeps reiterating that he wants to play for the NY Yankees. Is this true? Has he actually come out and said that or is it just a ploy to drive up his price?
On my way into work yesterday and today Buck Martinez was on XM radio saying how BJ Ryan keeps reiterating that he wants to play for the NY Yankees. Is this true? Has he actually come out and said that or is it just a ploy to drive up his price?
I don't think its a ploy because he knows that he'll get the most money here. But if he wants to close then he's just doing this to drive up the price.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 11:00 AM
I just hope Cashman doesn't get cute, as he's prone to do, and tries to save a million or two of George's money, especially with this one; trying to fill a glaring need like the bullpen and with one of the best in BJ.
BJ has said he wants to be a Yank. Then get it done.
What concerns me is when Cashman gets into one of his penny wise, pound foolish modes.
I Love Wang
11-15-05, 11:09 AM
I just hope Cashman doesn't get cute, as he's prone to do, and tries to save a million or two of George's money, especially with this one; trying to fill a glaring need like the bullpen and with one of the best in BJ.
BJ has said he wants to be a Yank. Then get it done.
What concerns me is when Cashman gets into one of his penny wise, pound foolish modes.
I don't remember this occuring before. Can you cite some examples?
I don't remember this occuring before. Can you cite some examples?
Not getting the deal done with Miguel Cairo (and then compounding the mistake by getting Womack).
Not picking up Lieber's option.
Yankees1962
11-15-05, 11:29 AM
Not getting the deal done with Miguel Cairo (and then compounding the mistake by getting Womack).
Not picking up Lieber's option.
In regard to Cairo/Womack, you need to point your finger towards Tampa.
As far as Lieber, Cashman has admitted publicly he miscalculated the market, but that happens to them all. I think Cashman is smart enough to learn from his mistakes.
Kulish29
11-15-05, 11:43 AM
Not getting the deal done with Miguel Cairo (and then compounding the mistake by getting Womack).
Cairo wanted more then he was worth. He screwed that up himself b/c he ended up getting less to play in Queens.
Not picking up Lieber's option.
Yes, that was a mistake. But it all worked out for the best anyway. Both the Cairo thing and the Lieber thing. ;)
Cairo was Cairo's agent's fault.
The Yankees apparently offered Womack a contract without ever telling Cashman on the suggestion of Bill Emslie.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 12:00 PM
I don't remember this occuring before. Can you cite some examples?
I seem to have to refresh your memory a lot of times. Have I ever failed you?
SODM gave you one example, though I wouldn't necessarily include Cairo, because Cairo and his agent did that to themselves. There are others besides Lieber, but you didn't ask how many examples you wanted, so we'll leave it at that.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 12:07 PM
In regard to Cairo/Womack, you need to point your finger towards Tampa.
As far as Lieber, Cashman has admitted publicly he miscalculated the market, but that happens to them all. I think Cashman is smart enough to learn from his mistakes.
Cairo was not even Tampa's fault. They are just as much to blame as Cashman, which means not at all.
Cashman screwed up with Lieber and everyone knew he did. His publicly saying that he messed up was only stating the obvious.
SINCE77 2
11-15-05, 12:13 PM
Cairo was Cairo's agent's fault.
Exactly. Cairo has a suit against his agent for not informing him of the Yankees offer until their deadline had passed.
Yankees1962
11-15-05, 12:15 PM
Cairo was not even Tampa's fault. They are just as much to blame as Cashman, which means not at all.
Cashman screwed up with Lieber and everyone knew he did. His publicly saying that he messed up was only stating the obvious.
If you believe that Tampa didn't have anything to do with not signing Cairo while signing Cairo then I have nothing else to say to you in this matter. Tampa signed Womack because they thought Womack was a better deal than signing Cairo for what he was asking for.
If you believe that Tampa didn't have anything to do with not signing Cairo while signing Cairo then I have nothing else to say to you in this matter. Tampa signed Womack because they thought Womack was a better deal than signing Cairo for what he was asking for.
Yeah, Cairo's agent was asking for like 4 million.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 12:23 PM
If you believe that Tampa didn't have anything to do with not signing Cairo while signing Cairo then I have nothing else to say to you in this matter. Tampa signed Womack because they thought Womack was a better deal than signing Cairo for what he was asking for.
Wrong. The Yanks placed an offer to Cairo that his agent turned down, and which turned out to be a hell of a lot more than he got from the Mets. Look it up. Cairo was pissed at his agent. Only THEN did the Yanks go to plan B, which was Womack.
Your scenario is not based on fact but on emotion and wishful thinking.
SINCE77 2
11-15-05, 12:28 PM
Yeah, Cairo's agent was asking for like 4 million.
Yankees offered 2mill which Cairo claims he would have taken had he been informed by his agent. He lost 1.2 mill in earnings due to his agent and is looking to recoup his losses.
Yankees offered 2mill which Cairo claims he would have taken had he been informed by his agent. He lost 1.2 mill in earnings due to his agent and is looking to recoup his losses.
Didn't his agent ask for 4 mil?
Yankees1962
11-15-05, 12:31 PM
Wrong. The Yanks placed an offer to Cairo that his agent turned down, and which turned out to be a hell of a lot more than he got from the Mets. Look it up. Cairo was pissed at his agent. Only THEN did the Yanks go to plan B, which was Womack.
Your scenario is not based on fact but on emotion and wishful thinking.
Whatever, I'm done with you.
Whatever, I'm done with you.
Yes because Dooley was right and you were wrong.
SINCE77 2
11-15-05, 12:33 PM
Didn't his agent ask for 4 mil?
He may have, but the Yankees only offered two with one of their patented Mike Stanton time frames. Cairo's agent failed to inform him of the deadline until it had expired and Cairo was left with the Mets $800,000 offer. So they are now in litigation.
B.J. Ryan thread right?? :dunno: :dunno:
Anyways, let's go get him!!
Yankees1962
11-15-05, 12:41 PM
Yes because Dooley was right and you were wrong.
Have it your way.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 12:42 PM
Have it your way.
He's off to Burger King as we type. He'll be holding the pickle.
Have it your way.
Its not about having anything. He presented facts and won the argumant. You presented speculation and lost.
It's going to take 4 yrs/ 32M for Ryan. Get it done.
Lets make this quick and then on to Giles.
yanksphan
11-15-05, 12:51 PM
Tampa signed Womack because they thought Womack was a better deal than signing Cairo for what he was asking for.
The Yanks placed an offer to Cairo that his agent turned down, and which turned out to be a hell of a lot more than he got from the Mets. Look it up. Cairo was pissed at his agent. Only THEN did the Yanks go to plan B, which was Womack.
Um...aren't you guys saying the same thing?
Yankees1962
11-15-05, 12:51 PM
Its not about having anything. He presented facts and won the argumant. You presented speculation and lost.
The fact of the matter is that Tampa faction signed Womack before Cashman could conclude his negotiations with Cairo. There is no question that the Yankees rejected Cairo's initial contract offer, but Tampa signed Womack shortly thereafter which prevented any further negotiations from taking place between Cairo and the Yankees.
Fabien Brandy
11-15-05, 12:53 PM
Didn't Cashman give Stanton, Hammond and Guthrie(?) the same offer and whoever took it first was signed? Hammond was a guy Torre really screwed up with.
The fact of the matter is that Tampa faction signed Womack before Cashman could conclude his negotiations with Cairo. There is no question that the Yankees rejected Cairo's initial contract offer, but Tampa signed Womack shortly thereafter which prevented any further negotiations from taking place between Cairo and the Yankees.
No, the Yankees did the right thing by breaking off talks with Cairo's agent. At this point the Tampa faction decided to sign Womack as a fallback for Cairo which was the wrong thing to do.
Yankees1962
11-15-05, 12:59 PM
No, the Yankees did the right thing by breaking off talks with Cairo's agent. At this point the Tampa faction decided to sign Womack as a fallback for Cairo which was the wrong thing to do.
Breaking off negotiations and then immediately signing Womack was the wrong thing to do because it was still possible that Cashman could've signed Cairo again at a reduced amount, if negotiations were able to continue, but Womack's signing prevented that from happening. Anyway, this is my last word on this matter since this thread is about Ryan.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 01:04 PM
Um...aren't you guys saying the same thing?
No, because they only pursued Womack after Cairo (his agent) declined the Yankee offer. Why would they have a need for Womack if Cairo had signed?
Cairo and his agent misread the market and his value, which isn't Tampa's OR Cashman's fault.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 01:14 PM
Back to Ryan. Everything is in place. BJ says he wants to play in NY. The Yanks have a desperate need for him and he could possibly be the most important FA signing in years for them, considering that he can replace Mo in the future and be the best set-up man in baseball in the interim. Mazzilli wants him. Guidry wants him. Joe wants him.
This is a huge test for Cashman and could very well define his worth as GM.
Back to Ryan. Eveyrthing is in place. BJ says he wants to play in NY. The Yanks have a desperate need for him and he could possibly be the most important FA signing in years for them, considering that he can replace Mo in the future and be the best set-up man in baseball in the interim. Mazzilli wants him. Guidry wants him.
This is a huge test for Cashman and could very well define his worth as GM.
I doubt BJ wants to play in NY for the sake of playing in NY. He wants the money and Cash should be able to get him.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 01:19 PM
I doubt BJ wants to play in NY for the sake of playing in NY. He wants the money and Cash should be able to get him.
I think you are 100% correct. He'll play in NY and set-up if the money is right with the promise of being the closer in a couple of years.
It goes back to my "penny wise, pound foolish" comment. If there is a time to overpay, it is NOW, because he could get comparable money CLOSING somewhere else. Cashman has to pull this one off.
I think you are 100% correct. He'll play in NY and set-up if the money is right with the promise of being the closer in a couple of years.
It goes back to my "penny wise, pound foolish" comment. If there is a time to overpay, it is NOW, because he could get comparable money CLOSING somewhere else. Cashman has to pull this one off.
Well Cashman didn't hold back on Matsui so let's hope he goes after BJ hard too.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 01:22 PM
Well Cashman didn't hold back on Matsui so let's hope he goes after BJ hard too.
With BJ, I believe it's more about salesmanship (on Cashman's part) than just money, because he can get comparable money to close. Let's see what Cashman has. I think Matsui was an easier sell; we all know he preferred NY and his agent was just doing what all agents do,
With BJ, I believe it's more about salesmanship (on Cashman's part) than just money, because he can get comparable money to close. Let's see what Cashman has. I think Matsui was an easier sell; we all know he preferred NY and his agent was just doing what all agents do,
Cashman better get BJ. Although I'm more interested to see what Cash does in terms of fixing our OF. We all know his main problem is judging talent so let's see what he does when it comes to the CF situation.
AMYanks
11-15-05, 01:54 PM
I just hope Cashman doesn't get cute, as he's prone to do, and tries to save a million or two of George's money, especially with this one; trying to fill a glaring need like the bullpen and with one of the best in BJ.
If he was "cute" with George's money, he wouldn't be overpaying for Matsui as much as he is.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 02:18 PM
If he was "cute" with George's money, he wouldn't be overpaying for Matsui as much as he is.
Ironically, Cashman did a wonderful job here considering the return on the investment in Matsui on and off the field. And he got all this at a fair market price.
We just found our lefty specialist:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2224920&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
The Mets declined their 2006 options Tuesday on left-handers Felix Heredia and Kazuhisa Ishii.
Heredia will get a $200,000 buyout instead of a $2.5 million salary. He is suspended for the first 10 days of next season after testing positive for a steroid.
Ishii will receive a $2.2 million buyout rather than a $3.25 million salary.
The 30-year-old Heredia, who is a free agent, pitched in just three games for the Mets before season-ending surgery on June 2 to repair a blood clot in his left shoulder. The 32-year-old Ishii was 3-9 with a 5.14 ERA in 16 starts and three relief appearances.
Beccash18
11-15-05, 03:35 PM
We just found our lefty specialist:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2224920&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
One can only hope that Heredia doesn't have the negatives to those photos. We don't need him to have the doubles.
JfromJersey
11-15-05, 04:01 PM
Well Cashman didn't hold back on Matsui so let's hope he goes after BJ hard too.
Methinks Wagner's contract will dictate to a considerable extent what BJ will get. The Yankees will have to offer him closer's money, or he will go elsewhere. If the Mets blow the Phillies out of the water to sign Wagner, it might have a negative effect on Yank's negotiations with BJ.
AMYanks
11-15-05, 04:27 PM
Ironically, Cashman did a wonderful job here considering the return on the investment in Matsui on and off the field. And he got all this at a fair market price.
It was not a wonderful move giving him 4 years.
It was not a wonderful move giving him 4 years.
Not aimed at you, honestly, OK?
WHY NOT?
It isn't like any money the Yanks spend comes out of your lunch money
Not aimed at you, honestly, OK?
WHY NOT?
It isn't like any money the Yanks spend comes out of your lunch money
It's not it's his money it is simply money which could be utilized in other areas, coupled with the fact that by the fourth year common knowledge dictates Matsui PROBABLY won't be very good.
It's not it's his money it is simply money which could be utilized in other areas, coupled with the fact that by the fourth year common knowledge dictates Matsui PROBABLY won't be very good.
This would be true, of course, if the amount of money the Yanks can spend wasn't (for all practical purposes) infinite.
I do get your point, though. It's not so much the attitude on giving that many years to a player, TBH....heck, that many years guaranteed would be ridiculous to pay anyone for doing anything....it's the "it'll make the Yanks go broke" that makes me laugh
We just found our lefty specialist:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2224920&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
OMG, dude I'm eating here.
LuckyLopez
11-15-05, 05:07 PM
Methinks Wagner's contract will dictate to a considerable extent what BJ will get. The Yankees will have to offer him closer's money, or he will go elsewhere. If the Mets blow the Phillies out of the water to sign Wagner, it might have a negative effect on Yank's negotiations with BJ.
Olney made the same arguement this afternoon. He predicted that the Wagner negotiations would work in the same way that the Pedro negotiations would. Whatever Philly offers the Mets will go over the top to get. So if Wagner ends up getting 4 years/$40 M would the Yanks be willing to pay Ryan $10 M to be a setup man (since not only would the market have been raised but Philly would also have the money they offered Wagner available to offer Ryan).
This would be true, of course, if the amount of money the Yanks can spend wasn't (for all practical purposes) infinite.
But haven't the Yankees claimed otherwise multiple times in the last year? From reports that it was Beltran or Johnson to Cashman saying he's lowering the payroll this season, the signs over the last year haven't backed up the idea that the payroll is (effectively) infinite.
In all truth, 5 years ago $200 M probably would have been close to what people considered "practically infinite." So it seems like a simple matter of degrees. The Yanks have always been able to overspend but as they have raised the bar higher and higher eventually you're going to see the ceiling.
YankeePride1967
11-15-05, 05:14 PM
I seem to have to refresh your memory a lot of times. Have I ever failed you?
SODM gave you one example, though I wouldn't necessarily include Cairo, because Cairo and his agent did that to themselves. There are others besides Lieber, but you didn't ask how many examples you wanted, so we'll leave it at that.
The Lieber one was Cash's screw up. Cash didn't even know Womack was a Yankee until after the contract was signed, can't blame him for that. And Cashman made a 2 year, $1.5 million offer to Cairo, very fair for him. Cairo signed for $900,000 total from the Mets, Cairo's agent overestimated his client's value. Not Cashman's fault there.
sugmasterflex
11-15-05, 05:57 PM
Methinks Wagner's contract will dictate to a considerable extent what BJ will get. The Yankees will have to offer him closer's money, or he will go elsewhere. If the Mets blow the Phillies out of the water to sign Wagner, it might have a negative effect on Yank's negotiations with BJ.
So the real question is: Can Cashman sign Ryan before Minaya signs Wagner and screws up the market again?
So the real question is: Can Cashman sign Ryan before Minaya signs Wagner and screws up the market again?
Course, to accomplish that, he would have to...overpay. The Yankees arent' waiting for Wagner to sign. Ryan is. He's go no reason to move before that unless you buy a reason.
sugmasterflex
11-15-05, 06:02 PM
Course, to accomplish that, he would have to...overpay. The Yankees arent' waiting for Wagner to sign. Ryan is. He's go no reason to move before that unless you buy a reason.
Good point. But I don't think Ryan will get quite as much as Wagner, simply b/c he doesn't have Wagner's track record. If we offer 4/32, I think Ryan will accept.
LuckyLopez
11-15-05, 06:27 PM
If Ryan accepts 4/32 before anyone else signs (Wagner, Hoffman, Farnsworth, Gordon, etc) he's not interested in the money. Because Wagner may be setting the market but Ryan's not far behind if at all. If he's signing with a team like the Yankees who aren't even giving him a closing role, he's foolish to sign early. Sign at $8 M a year and then Wagner gets $10 and he'll have to kick himself for giving up the extra $5-8 M he'd have lost by making an early decision. It just makes no sense, and even IF Ryan was so enamored with the idea of being a Yankee that he'd be willing to take less money to pitch in a lesser role I'd think his agent would be able to convince him that he can agree to a stupid deal in January as easily as he can in November.
BJG is right. The only reason you can give Ryan to sign early is a financial one. And 4/32 isn't it (or at least shouldn't be).
sugmasterflex
11-15-05, 06:31 PM
If Ryan accepts 4/32 before anyone else signs (Wagner, Hoffman, Farnsworth, Gordon, etc) he's not interested in the money. Because Wagner may be setting the market but Ryan's not far behind if at all. If he's signing with a team like the Yankees who aren't even giving him a closing role, he's foolish to sign early. Sign at $8 M a year and then Wagner gets $10 and he'll have to kick himself for giving up the extra $5-8 M he'd have lost by making an early decision. It just makes no sense, and even IF Ryan was so enamored with the idea of being a Yankee that he'd be willing to take less money to pitch in a lesser role I'd think his agent would be able to convince him that he can agree to a stupid deal in January as easily as he can in November.
BJG is right. The only reason you can give Ryan to sign early is a financial one. And 4/32 isn't it (or at least shouldn't be).
The only one that's going to set the market for Ryan is Wagner. The rest are a notch below.
terminator
11-15-05, 06:31 PM
I think you are 100% correct. He'll play in NY and set-up if the money is right with the promise of being the closer in a couple of years.
It goes back to my "penny wise, pound foolish" comment. If there is a time to overpay, it is NOW, because he could get comparable money CLOSING somewhere else. Cashman has to pull this one off.
Well I doubt they are going to offer a contract to BJ which would ensure that he is a closer in a couple of years. Not unless Mo decides to retire, because I honestly can't see Mo not being the best closer in baseball for at least the next couple of years, if not longer.
That being said - the Yankees will get BJ. 4years/32Mill? He'll sign right now. Other than the Mets - who seem to have their eyes on Wagner - there isn't another team in baseball which will offer him that much.
terminator
11-15-05, 06:36 PM
If Ryan accepts 4/32 before anyone else signs (Wagner, Hoffman, Farnsworth, Gordon, etc) he's not interested in the money. Because Wagner may be setting the market but Ryan's not far behind if at all. If he's signing with a team like the Yankees who aren't even giving him a closing role, he's foolish to sign early. Sign at $8 M a year and then Wagner gets $10 and he'll have to kick himself for giving up the extra $5-8 M he'd have lost by making an early decision. It just makes no sense, and even IF Ryan was so enamored with the idea of being a Yankee that he'd be willing to take less money to pitch in a lesser role I'd think his agent would be able to convince him that he can agree to a stupid deal in January as easily as he can in November.
BJG is right. The only reason you can give Ryan to sign early is a financial one. And 4/32 isn't it (or at least shouldn't be).
I think that 4 years/32 million should do it. How much does Mo make? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its around 10 mill/year. Foulke had a better track record than BJ, and he signed for 3 ears/20.25 mill with an incentive based option for the 4th year.
It would be interesting to see the contract figures of the top closers in the league.
And it has been pointed out that BJ doesn't have the track record of Wagner - and while he is younger, I would be surprised if 32 mill over 4 years isn't enough.
scull567
11-15-05, 06:38 PM
I think that 4 years/32 million should do it. How much does Mo make? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its around 10 mill/year. Foulke had a better track record than BJ, and he signed for 3 ears/20.25 mill with an incentive based option for the 4th year.
It would be interesting to see the contract figures of the top closers in the league.
And it has been pointed out that BJ doesn't have the track record of Wagner - and while he is younger, I would be surprised if 32 mill over 4 years isn't enough.
Rumor is that whatever offer the Phillies make to Wagner, if he leaves they will make the same offer for Ryan. I heard the Blue Jays are in on him too but I am skeptical that they will bid that high.
terminator
11-15-05, 06:42 PM
Rumor is that whatever offer the Phillies make to Wagner, if he leaves they will make the same offer for Ryan. I heard the Blue Jays are in on him too but I am skeptical that they will bid that high.
How much are the Phillies offering Wagner?
And yeah - there is no way JP is going to invest 8-10 million in a closer, especially if he signs Burnett. Plus, don't the Blue Jays have a pretty good bullpen? I know there are increasing their budget to 70-80 million, but considering the fact that JP comes from the Moneyball school, and the fact that he already has a decent bullpen, I can't see him investing 1/8 of that budget in a closer.
scull567
11-15-05, 06:48 PM
How much are the Phillies offering Wagner?
And yeah - there is no way JP is going to invest 8-10 million in a closer, especially if he signs Burnett. Plus, don't the Blue Jays have a pretty good bullpen? I know there are increasing their budget to 70-80 million, but considering the fact that JP comes from the Moneyball school, and the fact that he already has a decent bullpen, I can't see him investing 1/8 of that budget in a closer.
I read that the Phillies aren't likely to go over 3 x 10 in their offer to Wagner. They might consider offering another year to Ryan seeing as he's much younger.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 08:57 PM
The Lieber one was Cash's screw up. Cash didn't even know Womack was a Yankee until after the contract was signed, can't blame him for that. And Cashman made a 2 year, $1.5 million offer to Cairo, very fair for him. Cairo signed for $900,000 total from the Mets, Cairo's agent overestimated his client's value. Not Cashman's fault there.
Which I said in this and following posts - that Cairo wasn't Cashman's OR Tampa's fault, but his agent's.
LuckyLopez
11-15-05, 09:45 PM
The only one that's going to set the market for Ryan is Wagner. The rest are a notch below.
You're right, of course. I didn't really mean to suggest otherwise. But there's always the off chance that the others will affect the market by a team signing them early. Similar to how Kris Benson did for SP last year. He wasn't at the top of the pitching market but the Mets overpaying for him upset the market for the remaining starters. Its an off chance, but one that I'd think Ryan and his agent would have to be thinking about at least in passing.
I think that 4 years/32 million should do it. How much does Mo make? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its around 10 mill/year. Foulke had a better track record than BJ, and he signed for 3 ears/20.25 mill with an incentive based option for the 4th year.
It would be interesting to see the contract figures of the top closers in the league.
And it has been pointed out that BJ doesn't have the track record of Wagner - and while he is younger, I would be surprised if 32 mill over 4 years isn't enough.
Rivera makes $10.5 M, which of course should be the benchmark. But the problem with that is Rivera's never gone to free agency and tested the market so I'm not sure how much that's a perfect barameter. I quickly took a look to find the 06 salaries of the big name closers (I just ignored the guys like K-Rod, Nathan, and Lidge who are making chump change).
Rivera - 10.5M (2/$21M + a $10.5M 07 club option)
Gagne - $10M (2/$19M plus a $12M 07 club option)
Isringhausen - $8.75M (3/$25.75M = $8M 08 club option)
Foulke - $7M (3/$20.25M + $7.5M 08 club option/$3.75 player option)
Perceival - $6M (2/$12M)
The closer market seems off to me. Because not only hasn't Rivera ever tested the market but the majority of the top closers haven't. Either they're recent success stories, young guys who aren't free agent eligible yet, or players that have stuck with their teams. The only closers that I can recall entering the market recently are Foulke, Perceival, and Benitez (3/$21M). Foulke would be the only one who I'd think would be comparable to Ryan/Wagner but he's actually making quite a bit less than his peers. Wagner made $9M this past season so that's his starting point and 3/$30M seems to be the place where Philly's looking to sign him at. But of the Mets break the bank to try and get him that's going to affect Ryan. If the Mets edge out Philly for Wagner and then the Phillies offer Ryan the 3/$30M they were offering Wagner (or even a little less like 3/$27M) than that seems to put a question on Ryan accepting 4/$32M for a non-closing job for NY.
And I realize that we keep hearing that Ryan doesn't need to close. And we're all of the idea that Ryan can be coerced in with a promise to replace Rivera. But there's no guarantee in there. The Yanks have a club option on Mo for '07 so it seems to be safe to say that Ryan's agreeing to at least 2 years of setting up. Its not inconceivale to believe that Rivera might want to extend his career (he'd be 37 in 08 Spring Training compared to a currently 38 Hoffman). And even more importantly, if Ryan fails to impress in '06-'07 than I think its fair to belief he won't be the Yankee closer in '08, Mo or no Mo. The Yanks have shown that they have short patience with young pitchers so it seems hard to believe that Ryan would trust that he could struggle or just coast through his first 2 years and still have the closing job sewn up. These have to at least be things that he and his agent are considering. And of course the fact that the other clubs offering big money are NL teams and not in the AL East might be something to tempt a young closer without a long track record (for that matter, the Mets could theoretically save money by offering Ryan less than it would take to get Wagner but still more than the 4/$32M people are expecting from the Yanks).
So 4/$32M might very well do it. I'm not necessarily arguing that it won't, just that its not such a blindingly good offer that Ryan should take it without first seeing what Wagner signs for. And IF Wagner gets 4/$40M and Philly offers Ryan 3/$30M than are the Yanks willing to beat that for a setup man? They're most likely going to be more inclined to if they lose Gordon and I happen to be of the idea about Ryan as I was about Matsui, that overspending a bit is ok in these cases. But I think all of this pretty much guarantees that Ryan will wait for the market to be set (unless he can set the market high, and making less than Wagner did in '05 doesn't seem to do that). Plus, the possability that Gagne could be making $12M in 08 could be an issue as well as the idea that K-Rod, Nathan, Lidge, and others might all be making more than Ryan in 3-4 years.
YankeePride1967
11-15-05, 09:49 PM
Which I said in this and following posts - that Cairo wasn't Cashman's OR Tampa's fault, but his agent's.
That's fine, but I don't know how any of the Cairo/Womack can be construed as Cashman being penny foolish. I will say he shares a good portion of the blame for Lieber, but a good part of that was the absurd contract the Mets gave Benson.
surge511
11-15-05, 10:49 PM
4 years, 32 million. Make it 6-6-10-10. that way, he gets setup money while he is setting up, and closer's money when he is closing. I know it is backloaded, but the money better fits the role he will be playing.
27IsNext
11-15-05, 11:07 PM
That's fine, but I don't know how any of the Cairo/Womack can be construed as Cashman being penny foolish. I will say he shares a good portion of the blame for Lieber, but a good part of that was the absurd contract the Mets gave Benson.
Oh how we all forget that Philly getting Leiber netted us a high-ceiling C.J. Henry.
scull567
11-15-05, 11:11 PM
4 years, 32 million. Make it 6-6-10-10. that way, he gets setup money while he is setting up, and closer's money when he is closing. I know it is backloaded, but the money better fits the role he will be playing.
I think they would be better off frontloading it. Closers just don't last, imo its unlikely that he'll be 2005 good for 4 straight years. Pay him more when you know he'll be good and then if for whatever reason he sucks later in the contract...its easier to trade 6 million/yr pitcher.
Dooley Womack
11-15-05, 11:15 PM
That's fine, but I don't know how any of the Cairo/Womack can be construed as Cashman being penny foolish. I will say he shares a good portion of the blame for Lieber, but a good part of that was the absurd contract the Mets gave Benson.
?? I never said he was penny wise/pound foolish regarding the Cairo/Womack situation. I didn't blame Cashman at all for that one. Maybe another poster did?
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.php?p=2890305&postcount=539
JfromJersey
11-16-05, 12:26 AM
Unless GS really is watching the bottom line, I don't see why the Yankees would quibble over an extra 2 mill a year to secure BJ. Mariano's going to be another year older, and it would be wise to share some of his closer duties, so that he's fresher late in the season and in the playoffs. Maybe Cashman can offer BJ the opportunity to share some of that workload as well as be the primary setup guy.
Yankees1962
11-16-05, 02:57 AM
4 years, 32 million. Make it 6-6-10-10. that way, he gets setup money while he is setting up, and closer's money when he is closing. I know it is backloaded, but the money better fits the role he will be playing.
If Omar offers Wagner 10-10.5M per for 4 years which is overpaying, but something that he's done last year with Pedro and Beltran, what do the Yankees do then? I think the Phillies who are scheduled to visit Wagner at his home soon might up their initial 2 year deal to 3 years forcing Omar to blow that offer out of the water to convince Wagner to come to NY. If that scenario happens then Ryan's price goes up because if the Phillies lose Wagner then they might offer a younger Ryan 4 years at 9-10M per season. Do the Yankees top that offer or do they move on and see if they can get two other relief pitchers for the price of what Ryan is asking for?
Yankees1962
11-16-05, 03:00 AM
Unless GS really is watching the bottom line, I don't see why the Yankees would quibble over an extra 2 mill a year to secure BJ. Mariano's going to be another year older, and it would be wise to share some of his closer duties, so that he's fresher late in the season and in the playoffs. Maybe Cashman can offer BJ the opportunity to share some of that workload as well as be the primary setup guy.
You can't offer BJ the opportunity to share some of the workload after the greatest relief pitcher in baseball history had maybe, his best season in certain stats. Another thing, Rivera has given the Yankees some financial breaks by not testing the free agent market. He would have made a lot more money if he had other teams bidding on his services.
If Omar offers Wagner 10-10.5M per for 4 years which is overpaying, but something that he's done last year with Pedro and Beltran, what do the Yankees do then? I think the Phillies who are scheduled to visit Wagner at his home soon might up their initial 2 year deal to 3 years forcing Omar to blow that offer out of the water to convince Wagner to come to NY. If that scenario happens then Ryan's price goes up because if the Phillies lose Wagner then they might offer a younger Ryan 4 years at 9-10M per season. Do the Yankees top that offer or do they move on and see if they can get two other relief pitchers for the price of what Ryan is asking for?
They likely won't have to top it because many players are willing to make a little less money to play for the Yankees rather than play for a sh*tty team like the Mets (see Beltran, Carlos).
But Minaya is so stupid that he could blow up the salary structure again, as he did with his offer to Benson last year.
It's been reported that he may be willing to give Wagner $15 million per year. If he does, Ryan could cost over $10 million. Since the Yankees won't give him more than Rivera gets, they may have to bump Rivera up in pay to sign Ryan.
Yankees1962
11-16-05, 05:28 AM
They likely won't have to top it because many players are willing to make a little less money to play for the Yankees rather than play for a sh*tty team like the Mets (see Beltran, Carlos).
But Minaya is so stupid that he could blow up the salary structure again, as he did with his offer to Benson last year.
It's been reported that he may be willing to give Wagner $15 million per year. If he does, Ryan could cost over $10 million. Since the Yankees won't give him more than Rivera gets, they may have to bump Rivera up in pay to sign Ryan.
Rivera and the Yankees appear to have such a good relationship, I think they'll come to some arrangement to get Ryan, but it's probably going to cost them more than 8M per for Ryan.
It's been reported that he may be willing to give Wagner $15 million per year. If he does, Ryan could cost over $10 million.
If he does that he is a complete moron. Who gives a closer 15 million a year?? No closer deserves more money than Rivera.
Yankee Bulldawg
11-16-05, 08:11 AM
considering that Ryan would be a setup man for Mo the Yankees would probably overspend to get him just to prevent other teams from going after him
surge511
11-16-05, 12:05 PM
It was not a wonderful move giving him 4 years.
Why? How many big names recently can you find that are done by age 35? Not many ok, so stop with all this 4-yrs stuff. It is not relevent. Hideki is signed through his prime years, which is excellent for the Yankees.
I would do the same with BJ. He is 28, give him 4 years with the promise to close in 2, give him closer's money, and if he wants to play for NY, it is there for him. Get this done, but I am tired of people blowing up about 4 years. If you want to sign big names, they will not just take 2 or 3 year deals at discount prices. It just doesn't work like that. Hideki and Ryan are big parts of this offseason. We did what we had to do with Matsui, lets to the same for Ryan.
LuckyLopez
11-16-05, 12:54 PM
If he does that he is a complete moron. Who gives a closer 15 million a year?? No closer deserves more money than Rivera.
But if Rivera had ever hit the free agent market he'd most likely be making more than he currently is. He could be making as much as $16M. So just because the Yanks and Rivera have kept him low that doesn't mean that it will necessarily hold as market value. If the Dodgers pick up their option on Gagne he'll be making more than Rivera at $12 M. If that happens and Wagner makes $10M+ then the young closers like K-Rod, Lidge, and Nathan could very well go up over $10M. Rivera's career might not be long enough for this to happen but soon after he retires there could very well be a number of closers making as much or more than he did.
$15 M is clearly overpaying for Wagner, but its possible. Omar's got money and the freedom to overspend for the sake of rebuilding the franchise and helping the new network get off the ground. And he holds no responsability to the rest of the market. If he wants Wagner and is willing to overspend for him, so be it. Its only stupid if it hampers him.
JfromJersey
11-16-05, 01:08 PM
You can't offer BJ the opportunity to share some of the workload after the greatest relief pitcher in baseball history had maybe, his best season in certain stats. Another thing, Rivera has given the Yankees some financial breaks by not testing the free agent market. He would have made a lot more money if he had other teams bidding on his services.
Not share equally obviously, but Mo's workload will have to be reduced to some extent.
Not share equally obviously, but Mo's workload will have to be reduced to some extent.
There were a number of times that Torre would have liked to have a reliable man to close a game and give Rivera a rest, or to have some one who can actually get through the eighth inning. No Gordon for all his stats was not the guy, Ryan would be, he would make Rivera the specialist that he is supposed to be, not the bale out guy also.
NewEraYanks2527
11-16-05, 01:17 PM
There were a number of times that Torre would have liked to have a reliable man to close a game and give Rivera a rest, or to have some one who can actually get through the eighth inning. No Gordon for all his stats was not the guy, Ryan would be, he would make Rivera the specialist that he is supposed to be, not the bale out guy also. I think that is a very good point. In a situation where Mo has pitched 2 or 3 days in a row and a save situation comes along why not send BJ out there to close it out. He has the potential and I think M&M61 makes a very good point on that.
Dooley Womack
11-16-05, 01:25 PM
There were a number of times that Torre would have liked to have a reliable man to close a game and give Rivera a rest, or to have some one who can actually get through the eighth inning. No Gordon for all his stats was not the guy, Ryan would be, he would make Rivera the specialist that he is supposed to be, not the bale out guy also.
Yup, for all of Gordon's misleading numbers, Mo has had to bail him out more often than I care to remember.
Yup, for all of Gordon's misleading numbers, Mo has had to bail him out more often than I care to remember.
If your expectations are that Ryan is some kind of magic pitcher who never allows baserunners, you are going to be sorely dissapointed. He allows more than Gordon. That isn't to say he isn't a good pitcher or even a better pitcher, just that all pitchers give up runs, all pitchers give up baserunners, and so on. Torre is who Torre is. He uses Rivera in save situations because his book tells him to. That's not going to change.
Yankees1962
11-16-05, 02:38 PM
Not share equally obviously, but Mo's workload will have to be reduced to some extent.
That will only happen if Torre has confidence in his other relief pitchers besides Ryan and Rivera. IMO, it's a major question mark whether the Yankees are going to be able to sign all of those relief pitchers that Yankee fans want on the team next year. Ryan is the key guy, if he signs then the rest of the pieces might fall into place, but it's still going to be chore to sign two other guys besides Ryan.
I'm hoping Cox is ready by mid season. He will prove very valuable in 2006
Rivera
Ryan
Cox
:drool:
StatenIslandYankee
11-16-05, 02:57 PM
I'm hoping Cox is ready by mid season. He will prove very valuable in 2006
Rivera
Ryan
Cox
:drool:
Let's see what this kid Cox can do first.
Let's see what this kid Cox can do first.
He still needs to prove himself in the majors, but according to all the scouting reports and his performance so far, it looks like he might turn into a good reliever.
I Love Wang
11-16-05, 03:08 PM
Mariano Rivera has too many Yankee fans accustomed to something that really doesn't seem to exist. There aren't many relievers through history that are at the level of dominance that Yankee fans would accept in a setup man.
Dooley Womack
11-16-05, 07:02 PM
Matsui is signed. If Cashman doesn't take advantage of the situation the Sox are in right now and sign Ryan while one of their main competitors for his services have other concerns, I'll be very very pissed. With Foulke so iffy, the Sox will offer him the closer position, make no mistake about that. That is, when their GM search is over. Now is the time to pounce.
YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 08:11 PM
Matsui is signed. If Cashman doesn't take advantage of the situation the Sox are in right now and sign Ryan while one of their main competitors for his services have other concerns, I'll be very very pissed. With Foulke so iffy, the Sox will offer him the closer position, make no mistake about that. That is, when their GM search is over. Now is the time to pounce.
What if Ryan isn't ready to sign? What if he wants to see what closing opportunities will be out there (i.e. where will Wagner sign and whichever team between the Mets/Phils don't get him, they will be likely to offer Ryan the closing job). It is very possible Ryan may wait for that to happen to get some concrete competition and more money out of whatever deal he does get. If the Yanks want to blow him away, say 3/33, that will likely get it done, but that would be over-paying.
ryanthe13th
11-16-05, 08:29 PM
I don't think that it is a concern of whether or not Ryan is ready to sign. Haven't there been multiple posts with links that say Ryan wants to be a Yankee?
YankeePride1967
11-16-05, 08:32 PM
I don't think that it is a concern of whether or not Ryan is ready to sign. Haven't there been multiple posts with links that say Ryan wants to be a Yankee?
It's all speculation. I have yet to hear a free agent say he doesn't want to play for the Yankees. While he may have a desire to be a Yankee, he also has a desire for the best contract that he can get and this stage in the game is not generally when the best offer comes. If the Yanks want to blow him away, they will likely get him, but they've operated under that philosophy of late and it hasn't gone too well in those instances.
parkerstrong
11-16-05, 09:41 PM
Ryan will get more money than what he is actually worth. If he wants 6 mil a year and be a winner with the Yankees he can....or take 9 mil a year to be the closer for Mets/Phillies (loser of Wagner sweepstakes). It comes down to alot more money or a much better chance to win. The more I think about it, the less I think Ryan comes to the Yankees...which makes me sad.
YankeeStripes
11-16-05, 09:57 PM
the yankees need to move quickly on him. The bullpen is more important than the OF situation, especially while these guys are still out there.
If he does that he is a complete moron. Who gives a closer 15 million a year?? No closer deserves more money than Rivera.
He is a complete moron anyway.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 01:56 AM
Another article you can choose to believe or take with a grain of salt. Also, I read in the Newsday article from today that Cashman is flying to Tampa to converse with Steinbrenner and the Tampa faction. Now, that Cashman probably has a good idea what the free agent possiblities are asking for and what other clubs want in any trade proposals, I would assume they will finalize which direction they will commit to as far as acquisitions. I see they mentioned Damon in that same article probably to drive up the signing price for him.
The Yankees do not believe left-hander B.J. Ryan is serious at this point about signing with them as a setup reliever, preferring instead to talk to teams who would make him their closer. Because of that, the Yankees have been aggressive in their pursuits of other left-handed relief pitchers. They continue to talk to the agent for the Giants' Scott Eyre, a durable lefty who may prefer to stay in the National League. And they have expressed interest in Mike Myers, who has worked as a left-handed specialist for the Red Sox for the past two years. Also interested in Myers are the Mets, Red Sox and A's.
Yankees free-agent right-hander Tom Gordon also is out looking for a closer job (and a three-year contract), while the Yankees have offered him a two-year deal to remain Mariano Rivera's primary setup man. They still hope Gordon will come back, but that hasn't stopped them from expressing interest in free-agent right-handers Kyle Farnsworth and Bob Howry, just in case.
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113220817188570.xml&coll=1
As Ice often says, Graziano is usually full of sh*t.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 02:18 AM
As Ice often says, Graziano is usually full of sh*t.
That's a distinct possibilbity, hence, my comment about a grain of salt. I think the Yankees are cooling their jets for Ryan so he can assess his worth to those other teams and then see if they can match it or not.
Yankee Bulldawg
11-17-05, 07:26 AM
i believe that just for now the Yankees are taking a wait and see approach before throwing a mega deal at Ryan, but in the end i believe the Yankees will go after him hard
SINCE77 2
11-17-05, 12:29 PM
Another article you can choose to believe or take with a grain of salt. Also, I read in the Newsday article from today that Cashman is flying to Tampa to converse with Steinbrenner and the Tampa faction. Now, that Cashman probably has a good idea what the free agent possiblities are asking for and what other clubs want in any trade proposals, I would assume they will finalize which direction they will commit to as far as acquisitions. I see they mentioned Damon in that same article probably to drive up the signing price for him.
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113220817188570.xml&coll=1
Without a viable bullpen this team will go nowhere. If BJ is bullshi***** then we need to put the CF on hold and get this sorted out immediately. Farnsworth and Dotel would do imo if Gordon doesn't sign with the Yankees.
Without a viable bullpen this team will go nowhere. If BJ is bullshi***** then we need to put the CF on hold and get this sorted out immediately. Farnsworth and Dotel would do imo if Gordon doesn't sign with the Yankees.
Mo, BJ, Dotel, Sturtze, etc. sounds really good to me. I agree that BJ should be priority number one right now (and he might be).
Dotel? He of the major elbow surgery, 14 baserunners in his 6.2 career postseason innings, and king of pressure meltdowns? That Dotel? The one who likely will take a while to regain his velocity, which is his best asset?
Pass.
grabick_luca
11-17-05, 02:26 PM
why would you pass when you can get him for mosty an incentive laden deal?
Dotel? He of the major elbow surgery, 14 baserunners in his 6.2 career postseason innings, and king of pressure meltdowns? That Dotel? The one who likely will take a while to regain his velocity, which is his best asset?
Pass.
6.2 innings? I mean, small sample size may be a cliche, but thats cause its true a lot of the time. I think Arod, Sheff, and Matsui had 5 bad games this offseason too.
Dotel is coming off Tommy John surgery. Typically a pitcher comes back throwing harder than before after this procedure. And I have heard he is on track to recover faster than a normal Tommy John patient.
Finally the King of Pressure Meltdowns could end up being our 7th inning/right handed specialist guy. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he can handle that pressure if he gets his stuff back. And since as the previous poster mentioned we can give him a Leiber contract, there is no reason to just Pass without seeing what he costs.
SINCE77 2
11-17-05, 02:35 PM
Dotel? He of the major elbow surgery, 14 baserunners in his 6.2 career postseason innings, and king of pressure meltdowns? That Dotel? The one who likely will take a while to regain his velocity, which is his best asset?
Pass.
With Proctor and Sturze, we can afford to wait for him. Dotel would be coming here as a 7th inning guy (incentive laden deal) and in that role he should excel. BJ, Howry, or Farnsworth are the ones being looked at for the setup role. If we can't retain Gordon, then we should look at Dotel for the 7th inning.
why would you pass when you can get him for mosty an incentive laden deal?
Because I don't like him. I think he's got a wonderful arm (that will take some time to regain), but he overthrows and gets hammered the bigger the game. It's not a coincidence with a guy like Benitez, either.
I'd prefer someone who I might trust in October, or a big game against the Sox or another rival before then. He is prone to the long ball, as well.
As a 3rd or 4th option in the pen? I could live with it.
THEBOSS84
11-17-05, 02:39 PM
In the begining of the offseason I thought it was going to be a lock that Ryan would be a Yankee come spring training. I now highly doubt he will play for us. There are just too many other options out there for him. If he is given the choice to be a closer for a decent team or be a middle reliever for the Yankess - at similar $$/yrs - there is no way he chooses us. The title of closer is something that players take pride in, why would he give it up after one season?
27IsNext
11-17-05, 02:43 PM
The time to go after Ryan is now. If we wait too long, Minaya is going to screw up the market for set-up men/closers by offering Wagner $15 million per year, thus destroying the salary stucture, just as he did with Benson. We can't afford to wait for him to do that.
I would sign Dotel to a Leiber-type deal, while not wanting him to be the main set-up man if he proves to be healthy.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 02:56 PM
The time to go after Ryan is now. If we wait too long, Minaya is going to screw up the market for set-up men/closers by offering Wagner $15 million per year, thus destroying the salary stucture, just as he did with Benson. We can't afford to wait for him to do that.
I would sign Dotel to a Leiber-type deal, while not wanting him to be the main set-up man if he proves to be healthy.
I have a feeling that Ryan and his agent won't sign until Wagner does. It would be a stupid business decision on his part to sign before the top closer on the market does, especially since it's a seller's market.
27IsNext
11-17-05, 03:00 PM
I have a feeling that Ryan and his agent won't sign until Wagner does. It would be a stupid business decision on his part to sign before the top closer on the market does, especially since it's a seller's market.
Sadly, I agree, which is why I no longer think the Yankees will sign Ryan. I hope I'm wrong.
I don't understand why Ryan WOULD come to the Yanks. Rivera had one of his best seasons, if not the best, of his career. He's obviously much closer to the end than the beginning, but he's still the elite closer in the league.
BJ Ryan can get paid a lot of money to be the man in his own pen. If he wants to live in NY, he can get paid a lot of money to do that for the Mets.
I just don't see the pull. If he is looking solely for the top dollar, I guess the Yanks could give him that (and that is always a possibility). But I would think signing a 3-year deal to be a closer for a little less than the Yanks woudl pay would end up netting more down the road as far as total $.
27IsNext
11-17-05, 03:25 PM
I don't understand why Ryan WOULD come to the Yanks. Rivera had one of his best seasons, if not the best, of his career. He's obviously much closer to the end than the beginning, but he's still the elite closer in the league.
BJ Ryan can get paid a lot of money to be the man in his own pen. If he wants to live in NY, he can get paid a lot of money to do that for the Mets.
I just don't see the pull. If he is looking solely for the top dollar, I guess the Yanks could give him that (and that is always a possibility). But I would think signing a 3-year deal to be a closer for a little less than the Yanks woudl pay would end up netting more down the road as far as total $.
Perhaps he's like the majority of free agents, using the Yankees to drive up the price.
That being said, I could see him coming here for a goof amount of money + being the closer when Rivera retires in 2007. He himself has said he's very interested in being part of the Yankees-Sox rivalry. Also, he said he wants to play for a winner, and the Mets don't fit this description. Of course, that could very well mean being Boston's closer, which is why the time to make a move is now--while their FO is in shambles.
27IsNext
11-17-05, 03:26 PM
P.S. Reason number 439854245968290874 why we need to develop stud prospects: so we don't have to depend on pricey free agents who are probably just using the Yankees anyway.
[QUOTE=gold23]
BJ Ryan can get paid a lot of money to be the man in his own pen. If he wants to live in NY, he can get paid a lot of money to do that for the Mets.
QUOTE]
I think of about it this way, you have a chance to play for one of the greatest organizations of all time or the Mets. Everytime I think of the Mets, I think of that incident when Bobby Valentine was thrown out of a game and came back in the dugout wearing some type of costume. To me the Mets are like a second class organization lacking the class or sophistication of the Yankees.
Also met fans have been known to eat puppies on occasion. Just sayin'.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 04:24 PM
Also met fans have been known to eat puppies on occasion. Just sayin'.
I haven't heard any complaints from the puppies.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 04:42 PM
Without a viable bullpen this team will go nowhere. If BJ is bullshi***** then we need to put the CF on hold and get this sorted out immediately. Farnsworth and Dotel would do imo if Gordon doesn't sign with the Yankees.
While I agree the bullpen is equally important, we should work on both. There is no reason why Brian can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 04:55 PM
I hope the yankees will not wait for ryan to make the decision before making moves to the bullpen otherwise they may lose out on other good relievers. It is better to get 2 or 3 good relievers than ryan and some mediocre relievers
Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 05:57 PM
I hope the yankees will not wait for ryan to make the decision before making moves to the bullpen otherwise they may lose out on other good relievers. It is better to get 2 or 3 good relievers than ryan and some mediocre relievers
It's a cat and mouse, who will blink first game. You have a point, but I would think the Yankees don't want to sign say Eyre and Farnsworth only to then have Ryan say he wants to come too. Let's just keep the faith. In Cashman we trust!
Yankyfan
11-17-05, 06:11 PM
As per Verducci on YES Hot Stove he feels BJ will go else where.
The Q Bomb
11-17-05, 06:12 PM
[QUOTE=gold23]
BJ Ryan can get paid a lot of money to be the man in his own pen. If he wants to live in NY, he can get paid a lot of money to do that for the Mets.
[QUOTE]
I think of about it this way, you have a chance to play for one of the greatest organizations of all time or the Mets. Everytime I think of the Mets, I think of that incident when Bobby Valentine was thrown out of a game and came back in the dugout wearing some type of costume. To me the Mets are like a second class organization lacking the class or sophistication of the Yankees.
OR... you could look at it that The Mets know how to have a little fun and The Yankees are just too damn uptight! I love The Yankees and absolutely detest The Mets (even more than Boston) but sometimes - oftentimes - Yankee fans just have a skewed all-Yankee perspective. While there are a lot of upsides to playing for The Yankees I believe there are lots of down sides too, i.e., probably more pressure on this team than any other sports organization; intense scrutiny; stricter rules than the rest of MLB, to name a few. It's not for everybody. And take away the "guaranteed World Series rings" that have not materialized for the last five years and it may not be "the only place to sign" for a free agent.
Yankyfan
11-17-05, 06:19 PM
Toronto and Detroit can let him close and match his price.If he comes hear it will because he wants pinstripes not just the cash.
Yanks Lifer
11-17-05, 06:23 PM
Toronto and Detroit can let him close and match his price.If he comes hear it will because he wants pinstripes not just the cash.
This is true. Does BJ want to be a Yankee or JUST another closer?
vin777b
11-17-05, 06:26 PM
NYY had better get Ryan. Anything else is unacceptable. He should be THE #1 priority this off-season, CF and everything else follows. And know what? If the Yankees don't come at him with a deal he can't refuse, they will end up spending even more $$$$$ (or maybe prospects as well) trying to fix the problem down the line (cough*trade deadline*cough). Get it done now, or regret it later.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 06:54 PM
It's a cat and mouse, who will blink first game. You have a point, but I would think the Yankees don't want to sign say Eyre and Farnsworth only to then have Ryan say he wants to come too. Let's just keep the faith. In Cashman we trust!
It seems to me that ryan will not sign early. If he decides up to january, the other good relievers will be off the market then. Good relievers like howry, eyre, even farnsworth will not be unsigned up to january. My suggestion is to sign 2 good relievers and make ryan the 3rd.
It seems to me that ryan will not sign early. If he decides up to january, the other good relievers will be off the market then. Good relievers like howry, eyre, even farnsworth will not be unsigned up to january. My suggestion is to sign 2 good relievers and make ryan the 3rd.
Agreed. We don't want to be caught with our pants down. :eek:
vin777b
11-17-05, 07:52 PM
it doesn't matter. If Cashman doesn't sign Ryan, NYY is probably screwed. This is not time to experiment. We never did replace the initial losses of Stanton/Nelson (post-season play counts). We need someone who is proven. Remember this: setting up (for Rivera) in NYY entails every bit as much pressure, as closing somewhere else...and probably more. Ryan, Wagner, Hoffman, are the only FA relievers who are truly proven. And Wagner won't come here, and Hoffman is too old.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 07:55 PM
it doesn't matter. If Cashman doesn't sign Ryan, NYY is probably screwed. This is not time to experiment. We never did replace the initial losses of Stanton/Nelson (post-season play counts). We need someone who is proven. Remember this: setting up (for Rivera) in NYY entails every bit as much pressure, as closing somewhere else...and probably more. Ryan, Wagner, Hoffman, are the only FA relievers who are truly proven. And Wagner won't come here, and Hoffman is too old.
I have a feeling that even if Ryan truly wants to be a Yank, Cashman is going to decide to get creative and foolishly sign someone else for a million or two less, thinking he'll look like a hero somewhere down the line. But he won't be anybody's hero.
I hope Stick's voice is being heard loud and clear when it comes to player evaluations.
I have a feeling that even if Ryan truly wants to be a Yank, Cashman is going to decide to get creative and foolishly sign someone else for a million or two less, thinking he'll look like a hero somewhere down the line. But he won't be anybody's hero.
I hope Stick's and Guidry's voice are being heard loud and clear.
I hope you are wrong about Cashman. He needs to go after Ryan hard. He is the answer to our setup man problems.
SINCE77 2
11-17-05, 08:00 PM
Howry, Looper, and Dotel are some other options the Yankees might look at as well. If BJ and Farnsworth go elsewhere then re-signing Gordon becomes important as well.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:03 PM
I hope you are wrong about Cashman. He needs to go after Ryan hard. He is the answer to our setup man problems.
I hope I am too. Sometimes number crunchers scare me and I think that's his forte. Hopefully more autonomy doesn't mean less input from good (better) talent evaluators.
BJ is a must if he's willing to come to NY. He's one player the Yanks need to overpay for now and the future, when Mo can no longer do it.
Howry, Looper, and Dotel are some other options the Yankees might look at as well. If BJ and Farnsworth go elsewhere then re-signing Gordon becomes important as well.
GOD I do not want to see Looper anywhere near the Yankee organization. Please no!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
Wang's Groundballs
11-17-05, 08:05 PM
Howry, Looper, and Dotel are some other options the Yankees might look at as well. If BJ and Farnsworth go elsewhere then re-signing Gordon becomes important as well.
Dotel would be a great signing if he'll do a Lieber-like deal. Even though he says he's far ahead of normal for recovery, I still have doubts about him for 2006.
Looper would be great as long as he doesn't face LH in high leverage situations.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:05 PM
GOD I do not want to see Looper anywhere near the Yankee organization. Please no!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
I'll have a heart attack if Looper and the Yanks are mentioned in the same breath.
Wang's Groundballs
11-17-05, 08:07 PM
I have a feeling that even if Ryan truly wants to be a Yank, Cashman is going to decide to get creative and foolishly sign someone else for a million or two less, thinking he'll look like a hero somewhere down the line. But he won't be anybody's hero.
I hope Stick's voice is being heard loud and clear when it comes to player evaluations.
What is this based on? Nothing Cash has said or done leads me to believe this is the case.
Hopefully more autonomy doesn't mean less input from good talent evaluators.
This is where I hope Stick gets his ear. Especially in this case in Ryan. A lot of Yankee fans including myself will be upset if he goes elsewhere.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:10 PM
What is this based on? Nothing Cash has said or done leads me to believe this is the case.
You've never heard Cashman talk about the budget and don't get a sense that he takes pride in saving a million or two? Personally, I think he wants to prove the Yanks can do it without a ridiculous payroll, which makes sense in some instances, but not this one. Like I said earlier, penny wise, pound foolish.
Cashman is extremely budget conscious, or wants to give that impression.
ICEBERG18
11-17-05, 08:11 PM
I hope I am too. Sometimes number crunchers scare me and I think that's his forte. Hopefully more autonomy doesn't mean less input from good (better) talent evaluators.
BJ is a must if he's willing to come to NY. He's one player the Yanks need to overpay for now and the future, when Mo can no longer do it.
I know for a fact that Cashman is a big time supporter of getting Ryan.
I've heard Cashman bring his name up in multiple interviews over the years. If BJ doesn't come here, it won't be because Cashman didn't want him.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:14 PM
I and a lot of other Yankee fans will be upset if he goes elsewhere.
Count me in. I won't accept anything less, not even Wagner. Ryan has already proven what he can do against AL hitters while pitching on a crappy team no less.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:15 PM
I know for a fact that Cashman is a big time supporter of getting Ryan.
I've heard Cashman bring his name up in multiple interviews over the years. If BJ doesn't come here, it won't be because Cashman didn't want him.
If BJ claims he wants to be a Yank and means it, then there is no reason for Cashman not to get him. This is the Yanks, not the Newark Bears.
Wang's Groundballs
11-17-05, 08:15 PM
You've never heard Cashman talk about the budget and don't get a sense that he takes pride in saving a million or two? Personally, I think he wants to prove the Yanks can do it without a ridiculous payroll, which makes sense in some instances, but not this one. Like I said earlier, penny wise, pound foolish.
Cashman is extremely budget conscious, or wants to give that impression.
Yes I have, but I've also heard how interested he is in Giles and Ryan. If he was so interested in saving every cent possible he wouldn't have picked up Sturtze's option when we can get similar/better production for the league minimum.
Cash wants talent and doesn't want to overpay when we can get similar production elsewhere. He isn't going to subsitute someone like Howry for Ryan just to save a couple million.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:17 PM
He isn't going to subsitute someone like Howry for Ryan just to save a couple million.
I hope not WG
Count me in. I won't accept anything less, not even Wagner. Ryan has already proven what he can do against AL hitters while pitching on a crappy team no less.
I agree. I have had enough of NL pitchers that come over to the AL with their impressive numbers.
People may think I am crazy but I would not mind the Yankees trying to make a trade for Latroy Hawkins. He was pretty impressive when he was with Minnesota. I know he has not faired well since but I would be willing to give him a shot. Make no mistake not as a setup man though.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:19 PM
I agree. I have had enough of NL pitchers that come over to the AL with their impressive numbers.
People may think I am crazy but I would not mind the Yankees trying to make a trade for Latroy Hawkins. He was pretty impressive when he was with Minnesota. I know he has not faired well since but I would be willing to give him a shot. Make no mistake not as a setup man though.
Then they'll have to call me crazy too. I drooled over him when he was a FA. He finally got it together in Minny and was dominant. Maybe the AL is a better mix for him.
Well I guess I am late on this but the Cubs picked up Eyre. Scratch him off the list Brian.
Then they'll have to call me crazy too. I drooled over him when he was a FA. He finally got it together in Minny and was dominant. Maybe the AL is a better mix for him.
Dooley you and me think along the same lines. By the way I like your ID. I think it is hilarious. An older Yankee fan that I work with said he was going through some of his old Yankee scorecards and yearbooks after they lost to the Angels. He said as soon as he picked up a scorecard from the mid to late 60's and saw that one of our best pitchers was Dooley Womack it brought things back into perspective for him. :)
Dooley you and me think along the same lines. By the way I like your ID. I think it is hilarious. An older Yankee fan that I work with said he was going through some of his old Yankee scorecards and yearbooks after they lost to the Angels. He said as soon as he picked up a scorecard from the mid to late 60's and saw that one of our best pitchers was Dooley Womack it brought things back into perspective for him. :)
Actually I just looked at Dooley's numbers and they were not that bad. Pretty descent ERA and he saved a lot of games in '67. I guess that is what he meant that he was one of the bright spots in that dismall era of Yankee baseball.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 08:36 PM
Yes I have, but I've also heard how interested he is in Giles and Ryan. If he was so interested in saving every cent possible he wouldn't have picked up Sturtze's option when we can get similar/better production for the league minimum.
Cash wants talent and doesn't want to overpay when we can get similar production elsewhere. He isn't going to subsitute someone like Howry for Ryan just to save a couple million.
I have a high opinion of Cashman's abilities, but there are other Yankee fans that don't share that opinion and have made several posts on this forum questioning Cashman's ability to make sound baseball decisions.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 08:45 PM
I wish I was a fly on the wall in those meetings today down in Tampa.
Yankees general manager Brian Cashman flew to Florida on Thursday to discuss the team's next series of potential offseason moves with owner George Steinbrenner and other team officials.
The trip came one day after the Yankees held a news conference to announce the re-signing of outfielder Hideki Matsui to a $52 million, four-year contract.
Among the officials attending the meeting at Legends Field were general partner Steve Swindal, assistant general manager Jean Afterman, vice president Mark Newman, Gene Michael, Billy Connors, Damon Oppenheimer, Bill Emslie and scout Jim Benedict.
"My plan was to come down and brief the troops," Cashman said.
The officals were together one hour before Steinbrenner joined for almost two additional hours. Another session with Steinbrenner, Swindal, Cashman and Afterman followed.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 08:46 PM
Dooley you and me think along the same lines. By the way I like your ID. I think it is hilarious. An older Yankee fan that I work with said he was going through some of his old Yankee scorecards and yearbooks after they lost to the Angels. He said as soon as he picked up a scorecard from the mid to late 60's and saw that one of our best pitchers was Dooley Womack it brought things back into perspective for him. :)
It sure does seem like we are on the same wave length here.
Regarding "Dooley" if you take a look at him, he looks somewhat like Moose, at least to me he does.
When I chose this name it just came to me. I guess at the time I had to type in a username, I was thinking about one of the more "goofy" ex-Yankee player names. ;)
It sure does seem like we are on the same wave length here.
Regarding "Dooley" if you take a look at him, he looks somewhat like Moose, at least to me he does.
When I chose this name it just came to me. I guess at the time I had to type in a username, I was thinking about one of the more "goofy" ex-Yankee player names. ;)
Yeah he does resemble Moose somewhat.
I wish I was a fly on the wall in those meetings today down in Tampa.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
Yes I'll second that.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:01 PM
Howry, Looper, and Dotel are some other options the Yankees might look at as well. If BJ and Farnsworth go elsewhere then re-signing Gordon becomes important as well.
Just say NO to Looper!
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:04 PM
While signing Ryan would be great, that alone will not do what is needed. IF we go in with Mo/Ryan/Sturtze and the same collection of crap we had this year, yes our top two will be stronger, but then it will be Ryan/Sturtze being over-pitched instead of Gordon/Sturtze. We need a set up man AND support help.
yankees76
11-17-05, 09:04 PM
Just say NO to Looper!
And Endy Chavez.
While signing Ryan would be great, that alone will not do what is needed. IF we go in with Mo/Ryan/Sturtze and the same collection of crap we had this year, yes our top two will be stronger, but then it will be Ryan/Sturtze being over-pitched instead of Gordon/Sturtze. We need a set up man AND support help.
I agree. That is why I would like the Yankees to try to trade for LaTroy Hawkins. I know it's a pipedream but I can dream. :)
I have this nagging feeling that they're not going to end up signing anyone who can make an impact. We'll have to promote from within...
FREE COLTER BEAN!!!!!!
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:19 PM
It doesn't look good for Ryan. Remember Yankee fans, not everyone wants to be a Yankee.
Although Ryan said toward the end of September that he was open to setting up for Rivera, it appears to have been nothing more than a negotiating tactic. He recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees.
His preference is to close for a team with at least a chance of competing for a world championship, according to a person familiar with his thinking, which is why he chose to visit the Blue Jays, Tigers and Mets this week and not the Yankees.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
I have this nagging feeling that they're not going to end up signing anyone who can make an impact. We'll have to promote from within...
FREE COLTER BEAN!!!!!!
Yes. Free Colter Bean and watch the rest of baseball tremble at his 83 mph fastball.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:26 PM
It doesn't look good for Ryan. Remember Yankee fans, not everyone wants to be a Yankee.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
This article is so reckless in its misinformation that it's not even funny. Ryan's "Choice not to meet the Yanks" my @ss. Ryan and Yanks have already stated that the opportunity to meet wasn't there (on both ends) at the time that he visited the Blue Jays and that they'd arrange to meet.
Maybe the Yanks need to get more aggressive.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:26 PM
No balls.
If so then he's doing the Yankees a favor by staying away.
If so then he's doing the Yankees a favor by staying away.
Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps as others have suggested he won't hit the Yankees until he has his last best offer.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:29 PM
Has Cashman invited Ryan to meet? The article doesn't address this. A friend of a friend of a friend doesn't cut it...it never has.
Enter_Sandman_42
11-17-05, 09:30 PM
Scott Eyre just signed a 12 mil deal over 3 years with the Cubs, and Bj Ryan is wanted ALOT more than him, Ryan is going to command at least 8 mil per year and it MIGHT be even higher depending on if the mets land Wagner or not, can anyone justify giving a set up man 8 mil per year?
Yes. Free Colter Bean and watch the rest of baseball tremble at his 83 mph fastball.If accompanied by a 70mph changeup, it's acceptable. As long as he gets people out...
<table class="dataTableClass" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="tableTitleRow" colspan="19">Colter Bean: Individual Stats (Pitching)</td></tr><tr><td class="headerCellClass">
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W
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7
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3.01
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65
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71.2
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60
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24
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5
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39
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82
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ring403
11-17-05, 09:30 PM
It doesn't look good for Ryan. Remember Yankee fans, not everyone wants to be a Yankee.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
At least he didn't string the Yanks along for a month, and cost them a chance at other relievers. Time to move on to Plan B.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:30 PM
Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps as others have suggested he won't hit the Yankees until he has his last best offer.
Maybe you're not, pitching for the Yankees is quite different than pitching for any other team due to the media scrutiny and high expectations.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:31 PM
Yes. Free Colter Bean and watch the rest of baseball tremble at his 83 mph fastball. :roflmao:
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:32 PM
Scott Eyre just signed a 12 mil deal over 3 years with the Cubs, and Bj Ryan is wanted ALOT more than him, Ryan is going to command at least 8 mil per year and it MIGHT be even higher depending on if the mets land Wagner or not, can anyone justify giving a set up man 8 mil per year?
I'm really starting to believe that Ryan is going to get 9-10M per year.
I'm really starting to believe that Ryan is going to get 9-10M per year.
I'd be willing to give him that if he wanted to come here.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:35 PM
I don't think Ryan will be a Yankee and his apparent lack of desire to be a Yankee is not Cashman's fault.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:37 PM
If we are to believe this article, he's willing to pitch for the Mets, so then it's not a NY issue. It's more an issue of the Yanks becoming better salemen and convincing Ryan of all the advnatages there are wearing pinstripes. If they can't do that or even attempt it, shame on them.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:39 PM
I don't think Ryan will be a Yankee and his apparent lack of desire to be a Yankee is not Cashman's fault.
It sure is Cashman's fault if he can't sell him, or attempt to sell him the virtues of pitching for NY. Being a good GM doesn't entail only throwing the most money out there.
Here we have Torre calling Giles, a man with a no-trade to NY clause in his prior contract. Is it not worth a try to show Ryan the light as well, whose worth is much greater than Giles?
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:40 PM
If we are to believe this article, he's willing to pitch for the Mets, so then it's not a NY issue. It's more an issue of the Yanks becoming better salemen and convincing Ryan of all the advnatages there are wearing pinstripes. If they can't do that or even attempt it, shame on them.
I was skeptical from day one that Ryan would come to the Yankees (notice I didn't say New York). Name me five, no, name me one, closer that in their prime decided to become a set-up man. Yes he said he'd go to the Mets, they have no #42 over there. I think he would come to the Yanks if we overpaid, but if the Mets offer him $9-10, then add on a good 2-3 million more and that's too much for a set up man.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:41 PM
It sure is Cashman's fault if he can't sell him, or attempt to sell him the virtues of pitching for NY. Being a good GM doesn't entail only throwing the most money out there.
Here we have Torre calling Giles, a man with a no-trade to NY clause in his prior contract. Is it not worth a try to show Ryan the light as well, whose worth is much greater than Giles?
Where are you getting the information that Cashman isn't/hasn't tried to pursue Ryan and do what you said? He could get him, offer Ryan the closer's job.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:41 PM
I was skeptical from day one that Ryan would come to the Yankees (notice I didn't say New York). Name me five, no, name me one, closer that in their prime decided to become a set-up man. Yes he said he'd go to the Mets, they have no #42 over there. I think he would come to the Yanks if we overpaid, but if the Mets offer him $9-10, then add on a good 2-3 million more and that's too much for a set up man.
That's why there are great GM's, good GM's and mediocre GM's. The great ones produce the unexpected.
Enter_Sandman_42
11-17-05, 09:43 PM
I'd be willing to give him that if he wanted to come here.
how can you justify giving Ryan 9 mil per year as a SET UP MAN, he probably wont even see time closing in this current deal? I know we need bullpen, but 9 mil for a set up man? ridiculous, Gordon didnt make anywhere near that, and Gordon is better than Ryan or at least was.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:44 PM
Where are you getting the information that Cashman isn't/hasn't tried to pursue Ryan and do what you said? He could get him, offer Ryan the closer's job.
I didn't get any info. I am basing it on the article and have already said that it says nothing about whether or not Cashman has approached Ryan.
I'm saying that if Cashman hasn't and is basing it on what he's hearing from a friend of Ryan's, shame on him. If Cashman had contacted him, did a good enough sales pitch and Ryan still rejected the Yanks, then there's nothing he can do. But, the article says nothing like that.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:45 PM
That's why there are great GM's, good GM's and mediocre GM's. The great ones produce the unexpected.
You make it sound like Brian Cashman should be able to snap his hands and make Albert Pujols, Johan Santana, Andrew Jones and David Ortiz a Yankee by Saturday. If Ryan wants to remain a closer (gee, that's a first). Brian Cashman, the Godfather nor Elvis can do anything about it. You are just assuming that it's a failure on Cashman's part why Ryan may not become a Yankee rather than his unusual desire to remain a closer.
Please, this isn't about Cashman.
Next, which is Howry.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:47 PM
I didn't get any info. I am basing it on the article and have already said that it says nothing about whether or not Cashman has approached Ryan.
I'm saying that if Cashman hasn't and is basing it on what he's hearing from a friend of Ryan's, shame on him. If Cashman had contacted him, did a good enough sales pitch and Ryan still rejected the Yanks, then there's nothing he can do. But, the article says nothing like that.
And there's reason number 32,333 why it's absurd to go by articles, there is another link somewhere in here that said Cashman asked Joe to call Ryan about becoming a Yankee. So one of them is wrong. I am going by the logic of a 29 year old closer that just worked his way to a closer's role, unless someone offers him more than closer's money, why would he sign as a set up man (a demotion) when closer's jobs are out there?
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:48 PM
You make it sound like Brian Cashman should be able to snap his hands and make Albert Pujols, Johan Santana, Andrew Jones and David Ortiz a Yankee by Saturday. If Ryan wants to remain a closer (gee, that's a first). Brian Cashman, the Godfather nor Elvis can do anything about it. You are just assuming that it's a failure on Cashman's part why Ryan may not become a Yankee rather than his unusual desire to remain a closer.
Cashman is the GM of the Yanks. He already has an advantage over the other 29 teams. I honestly do expect him to do whatever it takes to address the Yanks most pressing needs and hold him to a higher standard as he very well should be held.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:48 PM
I was skeptical from day one that Ryan would come to the Yankees (notice I didn't say New York). Name me five, no, name me one, closer that in their prime decided to become a set-up man. Yes he said he'd go to the Mets, they have no #42 over there. I think he would come to the Yanks if we overpaid, but if the Mets offer him $9-10, then add on a good 2-3 million more and that's too much for a set up man.
The Yankees can't pay him that much. Some Yankee fans need to realize that certain players believe that being a Yankee is not that great of a feeling. Ever since 2000, the media has been talking about how the pressure to win the WS has really consumed the Yankee fans, players, manager and owner. Is it possible that the Yankees are entering a time again, when being a Yankee is not desireable among the players? In time, we'll see one way or another. The Yankees might be reducing their payroll more than they thought.;)
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:49 PM
Please, this isn't about Cashman.
Next, which is Howry.
Agreed, I can't think of one CLOSER in his PRIME that voluntarily became a set-up man. Not in recent history. I don't think it's absud to thin that it would be a stretch to think Ryan would become one.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:49 PM
And there's reason number 32,333 why it's absurd to go by articles, there is another link somewhere in here that said Cashman asked Joe to call Ryan about becoming a Yankee. So one of them is wrong. I am going by the logic of a 29 year old closer that just worked his way to a closer's role, unless someone offers him more than closer's money, why would he sign as a set up man (a demotion) when closer's jobs are out there?
Exactly. I'm speaking in hypotheticals and expect Cashman to not just stand there waving the white flag.
As for why I would expect Ryan to sign here, well, that's what makes for a good GM.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:50 PM
Cashman is the GM of the Yanks. He already has an advantage over the other 29 teams. I honestly do expect him to do whatever it takes to address the Yanks most pressing needs and hold him to a higher standard as he very well should be held.
You have yet to show anything concrete to show that he is doing anything different than that.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:50 PM
Please, this isn't about Cashman.
Next, which is Howry.
That Yankee fan doesn't like Cashman so he's going to blame him for everything that goes wrong this off-season.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:51 PM
Exactly. I'm speaking in hypotheticals and expect Cashman to not just stand there waving the white flag.
Well, until there is any evidence to suggest he even may be doing that, I'm going to give the man the benefit of the doubt that he isn't sitting in his office playing solitaire on his computer. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm sensing a Sierra Mist like hatred of Randy Johnson, but with Cashman here.
Agreed, I can't think of one CLOSER in his PRIME that voluntarily became a set-up man. Not in recent history. I don't think it's absud to thin that it would be a stretch to think Ryan would become one.
I'm not absolving Ryan here. He can probably close for the Yankees in two years. He's a wuss.
But it's untenable to argue that this is about Cashman.
ring403
11-17-05, 09:53 PM
It sure is Cashman's fault if he can't sell him, or attempt to sell him the virtues of pitching for NY. Being a good GM doesn't entail only throwing the most money out there.
The last thing a good GM should be doing is wasting precious time trying to convince someone who doesn't want to play in New York to reconsider, ESPECIALLY when he reportedly "doesn't want the pressure". The Yankees already have one big money signing in Carl Pavano, who is second-guessing his choice of teams. Why would Cashman, or any other member of the organization, want another headache like that.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:53 PM
You have yet to show anything concrete to show that he is doing anything different than that.
I don't have anything concrete. Like I said it's just me speaking hypothetically. I would HOPE that Cashman is as resourceful as some believe he is and that he wouldn't stop pursuing Ryan based on what's in this article. I already said the article sounds like a crock.
ICEBERG18
11-17-05, 09:54 PM
For some reason i don't believe Ryan said those things.... Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but i can see Ryan's agent coming out and denying those claims....
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:54 PM
The Yankees can't pay him that much. Some Yankee fans need to realize that certain players believe that being a Yankee is not that great of a feeling. Ever since 2000, the media has been talking about how the pressure to win the WS has really consumed the Yankee fans, players, manager and owner. Is it possible that the Yankees are entering a time again, when being a Yankee is not desireable among the players? In time, we'll see one way or another. The Yankees might be reducing their payroll more than they thought.;)
Exactly, unless we want to have a bullpen with a $80 million payroll, we can't just buy anyone. Fans come in and see us booing A-Rod, booing Giambi etc and say man talk about loyalty!
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 09:56 PM
Exactly, unless we want to have a bullpen with a $80 million payroll, we can't just buy anyone. Fans come in and see us booing A-Rod, booing Giambi etc and say man talk about loyalty!
Don't forget they booed Jeter back in 2004.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:57 PM
I don't have anything concrete. Like I said it's just me speaking hypothetically. I would HOPE that Cashman is as resourceful as some believe he is and that he wouldn't stop pursuing Ryan based on what's in this article. I already said the article sounds like a crock.
To me, the article that says Ryan would rather come to the Yanks to be a middle reliever than a closer to me is more of a crock.
The last thing a good GM should be doing is wasting precious time trying to convince someone who doesn't want to play in New York to reconsider, ESPECIALLY when he reportedly "doesn't want the pressure". The Yankees already have one big money signing in Carl Pavano, who is second-guessing his choice of teams. Why would Cashman, or any other member of the organization want another headache like that.
Bingo, if Cashman wasted time on a player like Ryan who very well doesn't want to be a middle reliever, and in the process choice #2, 3 and 4 sign elsewhere, the same fans criticizing Brian now will blast him for wasting time on Ryan.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 09:57 PM
The last thing a good GM should be doing is waste precious time trying to convince someone who doesn't want to play in New York to reconsider, ESPECIALLY when he reportedly "doesn't want the pressure". The Yankees already have one big money signing in Carl Pavano, who is second-guessing his choice of teams. Why would Cashman, or any other member of the organization want another headache like that.
If we are to believe what's in this article, then I'd agree with you if only Ryan hadn't met with the Mets. That tells me it's not a N.Y. issue.
If he doesn't mind playing in NY, then it's Cashman's job to convince him to play for the Yanks as a set-up man (isn't that less pressure?) with the promise of eventually becoming the closer; even sharing those duties with Mo in the near future. THIS is where Cashman needs to earn his money.
Edit: Also, along these lines, why in the world are the Yanks trying to convince Giles, a player with a no-trade to NY clause in his last contract, to play in NY?
Paul O'Neill regretted the trade to NY at first. We all know how he feels about NY now.
MiamiKat
11-17-05, 09:58 PM
It doesn't look good for Ryan. Remember Yankee fans, not everyone wants to be a Yankee.
Although Ryan said toward the end of September that he was open to setting up for Rivera, it appears to have been nothing more than a negotiating tactic. He recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees.
His preference is to close for a team with at least a chance of competing for a world championship, according to a person familiar with his thinking, which is why he chose to visit the Blue Jays, Tigers and Mets this week and not the Yankees.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
Read those two paragraphs in the quote very closely, especially the second one. (When will any of those teams even sniff their division title, much less a WS championship?)
I call bullsh*t.
To be clear, I'm not saying Ryan is coming to the Yankees. I'm just not buying what's in the quote above.
ring403
11-17-05, 09:58 PM
For some reason i don't believe Ryan said those things.... Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but i can see Ryan's agent coming out and denying those claims....
I can guarantee that his agent will refute the story, whether it's true or not.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 09:58 PM
Don't forget they booed Jeter back in 2004.
And even more closer to the vest in a case like Ryan, they booed Rivera in the THIRD GAME OF THE SEASON this year! If Mariano can get booed, than what is that saying about Yankee fans? I'd take the same money, be a closer which I worked my way up to being and go pitch elsewhere.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 10:00 PM
If we are to believe what's in this article, then I'd agree with you if only Ryan hadn't met with the Mets. That tells me it's not a N.Y. issue.
If he doesn't mind playing in NY, then it's Cashman's job to convince him to play for the Yanks as a set-up man (isn't that less pressure?) with the promise of eventually becoming the closer; even sharing those duties with Mo in the near future. THIS is where Cashman needs to earn his money.
Which he is doing. I am still waiting for one name of a closer in his prime that voluntarily became a middle reliever. It has nothing to do with playing in NY it has to do with closing. THe Mets have a closer's job open, the Yanks don't. That's the issue. Next Cashman will get blamed because it snows in January here.
Yankees1962
11-17-05, 10:02 PM
Next Cashman will get blamed because it snows in January here.
At least by that person.;)
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:05 PM
At least by that person.;)
Said that person who blamed Tampa and Steinbrenner for the hike in gasoline prices. ;)
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:07 PM
Which he is doing. I am still waiting for one name of a closer in his prime that voluntarily became a middle reliever. It has nothing to do with playing in NY it has to do with closing. THe Mets have a closer's job open, the Yanks don't. That's the issue. Next Cashman will get blamed because it snows in January here.
Quite honestly, I don't know what Cashman is doing and I don't know who he considers to be a good fit in pinstripes. We'll soon find out.
StatenIslandYankee
11-17-05, 10:10 PM
Seems like Ryan doesn't want to come here.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 10:10 PM
Quite honestly, I don't know what Cashman is doing and I don't know who he considers to be a good fit in pinstripes. We'll soon find out.
Until something is learned different, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. There has not been a GM in history (Theo included) that didn't make mistakes, but when he's been permitted to make calls, Brian has done good. He knows whether or not Ryan wants to be a Yankee. And if he doesn't invest sizable time in pursuing him, then that tells me he knows that and is more wisely spending that time on realistic options. Remember, if we sign BJ RYan and that's it, we have solved nothing. we will just be burning out RYan and Sturtze this year instead of Gordon/Sturtze. We have to build the entire pen.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:12 PM
Here's what the Yanks need to do, IMO. They need to get a live arm in Farnsworth in pinstripes. He might be sink or swim, but you take chance with a pitcher who throws 100mph and see if Guidry's and Kerrigan's tutelage makes him the dominant relief pitcher that he has the potential to become.
Is that something most of us agree on?
ICEBERG18
11-17-05, 10:13 PM
What friend would Ryan tell this too, "He recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees." That would relay it to JIM BAUMBACH AND KEN DAVIDOFF?
Lets just say im skeptical, not of the reporting, but it may be a planted story......
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:14 PM
Until something is learned different, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. There has not been a GM in history (Theo included) that didn't make mistakes, but when he's been permitted to make calls, Brian has done good. He knows whether or not Ryan wants to be a Yankee. And if he doesn't invest sizable time in pursuing him, then that tells me he knows that and is more wisely spending that time on realistic options. Remember, if we sign BJ RYan and that's it, we have solved nothing. we will just be burning out RYan and Sturtze this year instead of Gordon/Sturtze. We have to build the entire pen.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt until the whole story comes out. If Ryan said that under no condition would he set-up in pinstripes, Cashman gets a pass.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:15 PM
What friend would Ryan tell this too, "He recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees." That would relay it to JIM BAUMBACH AND KEN DAVIDOFF?
Lets just say im skeptical, not of the reporting, but it may be a planted story......
BINGO. All my ensuing "arguments" were not based on facts. I don't believe this article gave any facts.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 10:15 PM
I will give him the benefit of the doubt until the whole story comes out. If Ryan said that under no condition would he set-up in pinstripes, Cashman gets a pass.
That is a very loose term. Realizing he will get $9-10 million a year to close, if he said he would come to the Yanks to set up for $15 million a year, would you blame Cashman then?
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 10:17 PM
Is it really that hard to understand why a player would rather close than to be a middle reliever?
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:18 PM
That is a very loose term. Realizing he will get $9-10 million a year to close, if he said he would come to the Yanks to set up for $15 million a year, would you blame Cashman then?
I think that there is no doubt that Cashman will need to overpay, and there are very few players I'd overpay for. Ryan is one of them based on the Yanks DIRE needs now and in the future. 15 mil is crazy, but if the Yanks have to spend 1-2 million more than the competing team who promised him a closer spot, then yes, they need to do it.
ring403
11-17-05, 10:18 PM
how can you justify giving Ryan 9 mil per year as a SET UP MAN, he probably wont even see time closing in this current deal? I know we need bullpen, but 9 mil for a set up man? ridiculous, Gordon didnt make anywhere near that, and Gordon is better than Ryan or at least was.
That was then. This is now. Gordon wants a 3 year deal at closer money to come back.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
The Yankees also have been in contact with Gordon's agent, Rick Thurman, but they are reluctant to meet his asking price of a three-year offer at closer money. Gordon, who turns 38 today, is coming off a two-year, $7.25-million deal and still wants to close.
There is alot of demand for the good short relievers who are out there. The Yankees really have no choice but to spend closer money on a decent setup man. They're all going to be expensive.
Yankee Clipper
11-17-05, 10:20 PM
Here's what the Yanks need to do, IMO. They need to get a live arm in Farnsworth in pinstripes. He might be sink or swim, but you take chance with a pitcher who throws 100mph and see if Guidry's and Kerrigan's tutelage makes him the dominant relief pitcher that he has the potential to become.
Is that something most of us agree on?
Sorry, its too much of risk for me to accept. The guy is a headcase and I know has a live arm, but so did Weaver and Contreras and those guys did jack here. Plus we don't know what Guidry will bring here, so assuming he could help get Farnsy's head together is another assumption. He's going to demand big bucks and I don't want to waste it on a guy with not a whole lot upstairs.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:21 PM
Is it really that hard to understand why a player would rather close than to be a middle reliever?
Because:
1) It's the Yankees. That means for a lot, historically, and not only because I'm a Yanks fan
2) The likelihood of the Yanks being competitive for years to come.
3) Setting up for Mo, the best closer ever, can be considered an honor, especially knowing you will be replacing him in maybe 2 years.
4) Big bucks. Playoff/WS shares. Endorsements.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 10:22 PM
I think that there is no doubt that Cashman will need to overpay, and there are very few players I'd overpay for. Ryan is one of them based on the Yanks DIRE needs now and in the future. 15 mil is crazy, but if the Yanks have to spend 1-2 million more than the competing team who promised him a closer spot, then yes, they need to do it.
I am not paying 7 digits for a middle reliever. And if you do, what do you tell Mariano Rivera, your stone of the past decade, that your set-up man is making more money than you? No team with any financial sense would pay that much for a set up guy, not one.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:22 PM
Sorry, its too much of risk for me to accept. The guy is a headcase and I know has a live arm, but so did Weaver and Contreras and those guys did jack here. Plus we don't know what Guidry will bring here, so assuming he could help get Farnsy's head together is another assumption. He's going to demand big bucks and I don't want to waste it on a guy with not a whole lot upstairs.
Mel is gone. I'm one of those here who believe that Mel did squat.
YankeePride1967
11-17-05, 10:24 PM
Because:
1) It's the Yankees. That means for a lot, historically, and not only because I'm a Yanks fan
2) The likelihood of the Yanks being competitive for years to come.
3) Setting up for Mo, the best closer ever, can be considered an honor, especially knowing you will be replacing him in maybe 2 years.
4) Big bucks. Playoff/WS shares. Endorsements.
1.). Not as much of a big deal as Yankee fans think
2.) Other teams he will be pursued by (Philly, Mets and Boston) have the same prospects.
3.) The most valid part of it, but why set up when you can close.
4.) what endorsements? Set-up/middle relievers don't get any. He will get big bucks anywhere.
Yankee Clipper
11-17-05, 10:26 PM
Mel is gone. I'm one of those here who believe that Mel did squat.
That's fine, but I don't think it was Mel's fault. Weaver never got his act together and Contreras looked like a 7 year old girl everytime he took the mound in a pressure situation (no offense to any of the ladies out there)! :D
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:30 PM
That's fine, but I don't think it was Mel's fault. Weaver never got his act together and Contreras looked like a 7 year old girl everytime he took the mound in a pressure situation (no offense to any of the ladies out there)! :D
I have to admit that the sweat pouring down Contreras's face like a faucet, even in November, and his deer in the headlights look did scare me.
But, I think that with Kerrigan as bullpen (wink wink) coach, and with the help of Guidry, the pitching coach(es) spot looks more promising.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 10:31 PM
Newsday is reporting that ryan is not interested in signing with the yankees and he just used them for negotiation purposes.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:33 PM
Newsday is reporting that ryan is not interested in signing with the yankees and he just used them for negotiation purposes.
No sh*t.
Yankee Clipper
11-17-05, 10:37 PM
Newsday is reporting that ryan is not interested in signing with the yankees and he just used them for negotiation purposes.
I can just see George telling Cash to get Ryan at all costs. I'm not sure if this would be Ryan's plan all along, but I have a feeling the Yanks will give him a big offer.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:38 PM
No disrespect to Mo, but this reliance on a 37 year old closer is going to come back and bite us. Maybe the Yanks should sit down with Mo and tell him that maybe it's best to lessen his load and share closer duties with someone like a Ryan.
hellonewman
11-17-05, 10:38 PM
Just say NO to Looper!
GOD I do not want to see Looper anywhere near the Yankee organization. Please no!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
I'll have a heart attack if Looper and the Yanks are mentioned in the same breath.Looper is actually fine IF used as a specialist:
OPS against, 2002-04
vs. lefties: .822
vs. righties: .575
OPS against, 2005
vs. lefties: .979 :eek:
vs. righties: . 551
Of course, since he doesn't have one of those Jeff Nelson-like deliveries that screams "righty specialist," it's dubious whether Torre would have the sense to use him that way.
Edit: BTW, I'm not throwing in the towel on Ryan based on one article. Or even two.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:39 PM
I can just see George telling Cash to get Ryan at all costs. I'm not sure if this would be Ryan's plan all along, but I have a feeling the Yanks will give him a big offer.
As they should in this instance. They'll have to pay closer money for a top reliever. There's no way around it.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:41 PM
Looper is actually fine IF used as a specialist:
OPS against, 2002-04
vs. lefties: .822
vs. righties: .575
OPS against, 2005
vs. lefties: .979 :eek:
vs. righties: . 551
Of course, since he doesn't have one of those Jeff Nelson-like deliveries that screams "righty specialist," it's dubious whether Torre would have the sense to use him that way.
Edit: BTW, I'm not throwing in the towel on Ryan based on one article. Or even two.
Problem is, with Torre, if Looper has a few good games in the role you speak of (good stats you provided, btw), he'll rely on him for all different circumstances and he'll eventually burn out.
NewEraYanks2527
11-17-05, 10:44 PM
Well can't hate Ryan for having a smart agent, of course you hate him for playing for another team. Of course he still might end up as a Yankee, I read the Newsday articale and I can't say it really seemed to knock me silly with hard facts, like a direct quote from BJ saying "I dont want to play for the Yankees".
nyg02005
11-17-05, 10:44 PM
As they should in this instance. They'll have to pay closer money for a top reliever. There's no way around it.
He does not like the stress that comes woth pitching in new york
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:44 PM
I think that Newsday thrives on bringing Yankees fans depressing news. Those L.I. Met bastids! :lol:
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:45 PM
He does not like the stress that comes woth pitching in new york
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1118,0,4645311.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
Some of us aren't banking on that article. I'm not sure a "friend" would say such a thing to take any leverage away from Ryan.
NewEraYanks2527
11-17-05, 10:47 PM
Some of us aren't banking on that article. I'm not sure a "friend" would say such a think to take any leverage away from Ryan.
Excellent point.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:51 PM
Aha! This is where I hope Cashman was a sneaky lil pr*ck (in a good way) and had someone plant those stories, thus having teams believe the Yanks will be out of the running and consequently come in with lower bids. Then the Yanks come in and take the prize. Perfect!
I cannot, for the life of me, see Ryan OR a "friend" hurt him (or himself) and take away any leverage so early in the negotiating phase.
hellonewman
11-17-05, 10:53 PM
Problem is, with Torre, if Looper has a few good games in the role you speak of (good stats you provided, btw), he'll rely on him for all different circumstances and he'll eventually burn out.I'm not worried about burnout per se, just that he may never be put in the proper role to begin with. He may stay perfectly fresh but cost us games getting pounded by lefties, because I'm not sure Torre understands the concept of a "ROOGY." He sort of understood it with Nelson but a 6'8" guy with a slingshot delivery is hard to miss. Looper throws more conventionally.
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 10:55 PM
I'm not worried about burnout per se, just that he may never be put in the proper role to begin with. He may stay perfectly fresh but cost us games getting pounded by lefties, because I'm not sure Torre understands the concept of a "ROOGY." He sort of understood it with Nelson but a 6'8" guy with a slingshot delivery is hard to miss. Looper throws more conventionally.
That's what I meant to say, actually. That Torre would rely on him in the wrong role and , not only will Looper suck and be utilized incorrectly, but, in the process, become yet another burnt out Yankee reliever.
nyg02005
11-17-05, 10:56 PM
Saying he is not interested with the yankees will allow more teams to participate. A lot of teams are looking for a closer and willing to pay. Two teams (detroit and mets) that has the money are involved so he does not need the yankees now.
Clemens831
11-17-05, 10:56 PM
Here's the best part...
His preference is to close for a team with at least a chance of competing for a world championship, according to a person familiar with his thinking, which is why he chose to visit the Blue Jays, Tigers and Mets this week and not the Yankees.
Because CLEARLY the Jays, Tigers and Mets all have a better chance of competing for a world championship than the Yanks. How silly of us to think that we could thrown down with the Tigers!?
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 11:01 PM
Saying he is not interested with the yankees will allow more teams to participate. A lot of teams are looking for a closer and willing to pay. Two teams (detroit and mets) that has the money are involved so he does not need the yankees now.
True, but on the flip side, those teams (even with money to burn) who desire him and think that the Yanks are out of it will become somewhat lax, thinking that they won't have to outbid the Yanks for his services. For instance, the Mets "final" offer will be a heck of a lot lower if they thought the Yanks weren't getting involved. The Yanks can come into the game late, outbid every team (as they would have to do anyway) but at a lower cost, and then leave the other teams scrambling. Why show your cards so early in the game?
nyg02005
11-17-05, 11:07 PM
bec. he has gauge the market and now knows that he can get the money even without the yankees in the mix. He wants to close so after a few yrs he will even command more money. Remember, detroit, the loser of the wagner sweepstake will be hard press to signed him. Even boston is a possibility. Lastly dumping the yankees now will allow the other team to be serious in negotiation.
27IsNext
11-17-05, 11:09 PM
As I suspected, as is the case with Giles IMO, Ryan was using the Yankees to ante up the price. You people need to get it through your head that we can't just get any free agent we want.
terminator
11-17-05, 11:11 PM
To be fair, I doubt the Yankees can guarantee the closer's role to Ryan any time soon.
Mo has shown no signs of a decline, and somehow is getting even better. Does anyone actually think his performance is going to decline to the extent that he won't be the closer 2 years from now? The guy is an absolute genetic freak.
Of course, if the Yankees blow him away with an offer, he will probably reconsider.
Obviously the Yankees can surpass anything he will get in the market.
27IsNext
11-17-05, 11:14 PM
Of course, if the Yankees blow him away with an offer, he will probably reconsider.
Obviously the Yankees can surpass anything he will get in the market.
What makes you think the Yankees are going to destroy the salary structure for set-up men/closers? When have they EVER broken the salary structure for any type of player?
Dooley Womack
11-17-05, 11:16 PM
Let's pray that THIS is a ploy :eek:
Although the Yankees have expressed interest in Braves righty Kyle Farnsworth and Giants lefty Scott Eyre, Cashman mentioned Scott Proctor and minor-league lefty Matt Smith as internal setup possibilities for 2006.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57630.htm
You're scaring me Brian. Tell us you're kidding.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-17-05, 11:17 PM
Here's the best part...
Because CLEARLY the Jays, Tigers and Mets all have a better chance of competing for a world championship than the Yanks. How silly of us to think that we could thrown down with the Tigers!?
Sounds like BJ doesn't have the stomach for big games in September and October. The Mets thing is a joke because the world knows they will blow out the salary structure for Wagner, so I think if anything, BJ was getting used by the Mets for maybe some extra leverage on Wagner. That leaves the Jays and Tigers....2 teams who consistently fight for 3rd place. I'm over it, if he doesn't want to be here, then I don't want him here.
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