View Full Version : BJ Ryan interested in Yankees / Ryan signs with Toronto
ICEBERG18
10-09-05, 07:56 PM
Can someone explain why we get 2 draft picks for letting someone else sign Gordon, but only have to give Balt 1 for signing Ryan?
The birds would also get two picks, but just the one from us.
Type A:Team losing player gets signing team’s first-round pick as well as a supplemental first-round pick. If the signing team is picking in the first half of the first round, they lose their second-rounder instead of their first-rounder.
Take this for what's worth.....
I just read my latest Sporting News and in the "Inside Dish" part they coment on BJ Ryan and where he may end up. To sum up what it said was that Ryan is willing to set up for the right team and a teammate suggested that Ryan would love to assume that role for the Yankees.
If we add Ryan to our bullpen that would fill a huge hole out there. I am excited to see where he ends up this offseason.
Wow... that would be amazing!! Ryan would be welcomed with open arms!! A Ryan, Flash, Mo bullpen to finish games would be outstanding!
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-09-05, 11:17 PM
BJ Ryan and the Yankees are made for each other. A young power lefty closer in Yankee Stadium--have we ever seen it?
yankeefan in MA
10-09-05, 11:36 PM
BJ Ryan and the Yankees are made for each other. A young power lefty closer in Yankee Stadium--have we ever seen it?
Dave Righetti.
Dave Righetti.
Yeah and their were many times I peronally saw Rags blow leads in the late innings. I think BJ would be better than Rags though.
surge511
10-15-05, 02:05 PM
WHY?
He won't cost us anything but money, and he's proven to be effective when we don't overuse him or force him to spot start.
I agree. We should sign Farnsworth to be the 7th inning guy, which would let Sturtze pick up the old Mendoza role, and him rested will make for a very effective Sturtze.
surge511
10-15-05, 02:07 PM
I would also have no problem having Gordon in Sturtze's role next season.
Or letting the old, unclutch Gordon leave so we get picks, and then we sign the 29 year old fireballer Farnsworth.
Sturtze-Farnsworth-Ryan-Mo = UNSTOPPABLE.
CTSoxFan
10-15-05, 02:11 PM
Or letting the old, unclutch Gordon leave so we get picks, and then we sign the 29 year old fireballer Farnsworth.
Sturtze-Farnsworth-Ryan-Mo = UNSTOPPABLE.
Better take a long, hard look at Farnsworth's career numbers before you leap. He just had a career year, which happened to coincide with his contract year. I'd sure be willing to take a flyer on him, but they better not over-commit too many dollars. That 101 mph fastball comes in mighty flat sometimes.
goin for 27
10-15-05, 02:12 PM
Ryan is a free agent.
Offer Arb to Gordon, sign Ryan.
This way, neither guy gets over worked, and Torre can match up late.
This does not have to be an either/or.
True Yankee-ette13
10-15-05, 02:13 PM
Sturtze-Farnsworth-Ryan-Mo = UNSTOPPABLE.
:ga-ga: Where do I sign up?
TheTinoMobile
10-15-05, 02:14 PM
only if Sturtze can sew his arm back on... i think he can with a little bit of Kerrigan colored yarn.
TheTinoMobile
10-15-05, 02:15 PM
I'm not sure how much that one start can be used to excuse the last three months of his season. I'm pessimistic at best about how effective he will be next season, and I'd rather give $300k to a Columbus reliever than $1.5 million for a mediocre month or two from Sturtze.
Coming from the guy with a Carl Pavano avatar... i would assume you would understand what injury and fatigue (even if it cant be proven it's there) can do to a pitchers performance.
Bob Saccomano
10-15-05, 02:16 PM
Or letting the old, unclutch Gordon leave so we get picks, and then we sign the 29 year old fireballer Farnsworth.
Sturtze-Farnsworth-Ryan-Mo = UNSTOPPABLE.
Farnsworth's awfully inconsistent. Take a look at his career numbers:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?categoryId=85496
I think the last thing we need is a reliever that looks good on paper but is in actuality inconsistent. Heck, even consistent relievers such as Quantrill(http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?categoryId=85421) (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?categoryId=85421), Karsay (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?categoryId=85433), and Felix Rodriguez (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player?categoryId=85860) can turn out to be bad. That's why the Yankees went from what sportswriters and analysts called "a deep bullpen" to one that was terribly inconsistent and abrely capable of holding an 8 run lead for 5 innings. And for all the talk about Gordon being a postseason choker, was anyone here watching the Braves-Astros NLDS Game 4?
:ga-ga: Where do I sign up?
Id rather sign Howry and Ryan and have Sturtze - Howry - Ryan - Mo
Howry is proven in the american league. I just dont trust NL pitchers unless theyre from Colorado. Farnsworth also gave up a lot of big hits to the Astros in th NLDS and that scares me a bit also.
ChinMusic
10-15-05, 02:19 PM
Or letting the old, unclutch Gordon leave so we get picks, and then we sign the 29 year old fireballer Farnsworth.
Sturtze-Farnsworth-Ryan-Mo = UNSTOPPABLE.
For the bullpen to be Torre proof, this is what you need. Four reliable guys, with Sturtze being the fourth best, not the third best guy.
ring403
10-15-05, 02:29 PM
Farnsworth's awfully inconsistent. Take a look at his career numbers:
Exactly. His career numbers are all over the placeand there is no evidence that he'd be an improvement over Tom Gordon, especially in pressure postseason situations.
Exactly. His career numbers are all over the placeand there is no evidence that he'd be an improvement over Tom Gordon, especially in pressure postseason situations.
The idea is not for Farnsworth to replace Gordon. It's to put him in the pen along with Mariano, Ryan, and maybe Cox, to have a surfeit of quality arms.
Ryan will only come for closer money and nothing less than a 4 year deal.At 29 he'll be around long after Mo retires.This is an absolute no brainer.We also need a solid set up reliever leading to Ryan and Mo.I'd go for Farnsworth.Cox can work in the minors until late August.At that time we could bring him into the bullpen scheme as Anaheim did with K-Rod.
AMYanks
10-15-05, 03:52 PM
Exactly. His career numbers are all over the placeand there is no evidence that he'd be an improvement over Tom Gordon, especially in pressure postseason situations.
I think he would replace Sturtze. Replacing Gordon is why Ryan would be signed.
ring403
10-15-05, 04:01 PM
I think he would replace Sturtze. Replacing Gordon is why Ryan would be signed.
Farnsworth is clearly much better than Sturtze, and would be a nice upgrade in that role, if he would be willing to accept being behind Ryan (if indeed Ryan is signed by the Yankees).
I just wouldn't want to see him in a setup role.
YankeePride1967
10-15-05, 05:50 PM
I would pay Ryan closer's money to set up. I think he would be a very good replacement for Mo when he steps aside potentially in 2 years.
I would pay Ryan closer's money to set up. I think he would be a very good replacement for Mo when he steps aside potentially in 2 years.
Agreed... singing BJ Ryan would be huge for us.
AMYanks
10-15-05, 05:57 PM
I just wouldn't want to see him in a setup role.
I agree, and I highly doubt the Yankees would, either.
JPenney
10-15-05, 05:59 PM
That would be an awesome bullpen: Rivera, Ryan, Gordon(if he resigns), Sturtze, Wright and if you wanted to through in a extra lefty you could go with Sean Henn or Matt Smith.
NewEraYanks2527
10-15-05, 06:01 PM
Did anyone else mention that B.J. Ryan is good friends with Ron Guidry and Guidry MIGHT be the next picthing coach, regardless he definitly can help lure him to the Dark Side.
27IsNext
10-15-05, 06:01 PM
As always, I just hope the Yankees are smart enough to sign him.
I would pay Ryan closer's money to set up. I think he would be a very good replacement for Mo when he steps aside potentially in 2 years.
Agreed, I think he is our #1 priority this offseason. (after we sign Matsui of course)
I would pay Ryan closer's money to set up. I think he would be a very good replacement for Mo when he steps aside potentially in 2 years.
First, I think Ryan is overated. He was inconsistant against the Red Sox and Yankees and ran out of gas at the end of the year. As a potential playoff team, we can't have that. Although it would be tough, Wagner would be a much better signing.
Second, this idea that Mariano is done in 2 years (barring bad injury) is short sighted. This guy had his best season at 35 years old this year. And he still was able to hit 96/97 at times. He moves the ball around better and has an amazing cutter. He still is a one speed pitcher, (for the most part, the 4 seamer tends to have more zip on it), and if he develops a change he could pitch for 5 more years. I think if you told Ryan he would close at some point in a 3-4 year deal you would be lying.
RhodeyYankee2638
10-15-05, 08:09 PM
Wagner would be a much better signing.
.
1) Older
2) More injury prone
3) will cost more
4) wants to close
27IsNext
10-15-05, 08:11 PM
First, I think Ryan is overated. He was inconsistant against the Red Sox and Yankees and ran out of gas at the end of the year. As a potential playoff team, we can't have that. Although it would be tough, Wagner would be a much better signing.
Second, this idea that Mariano is done in 2 years (barring bad injury) is short sighted. This guy had his best season at 35 years old this year. And he still was able to hit 96/97 at times. He moves the ball around better and has an amazing cutter. He still is a one speed pitcher, (for the most part, the 4 seamer tends to have more zip on it), and if he develops a change he could pitch for 5 more years. I think if you told Ryan he would close at some point in a 3-4 year deal you would be lying.
When Rivera signed his most recent contract, he said this would be his last, saying God had other plans for him (to become an evangelical minister).
He's yet to take this statement back.
When Rivera signed his most recent contract, he said this would be his last, saying God had other plans for him (to become an evangelical minister).
He's yet to take this statement back.
He also said he was going to retire after the 03 season and be a minister.
Did anyone else mention that B.J. Ryan is good friends with Ron Guidry and Guidry MIGHT be the next picthing coach, regardless he definitly can help lure him to the Dark Side.
Cool. I heard that for the first time on WFAN the other day. I would love to be friends with Gator as well as he is one of my top Yankees I grew up to admire.
1. Ron Guidry
2. Thurman Munson
3. Don Mattingly
4. Derek Jeter
5. Mariano Rivera
And that is not in any particular order. Those players I admired the most.
27IsNext
10-15-05, 08:18 PM
He also said he was going to retire after the 03 season and be a minister.
Did he ever refute this statement prior to signing his latest extension?
ICEBERG18
10-15-05, 08:19 PM
First, I think Ryan is overated.
2004, 87IP: 122Ks
2005, 70IP: 100Ks
Brad Lidge-70.2IP 58-H 18-ER 5-HER 23-BB 103-K 2.29-ERA 1.15-WHIP .233-BAA
BJ Ryan-70.1IP 54-H 19-ER 4-HR 26-BB 100-K 2.43-ERA 1.14-WHIP .208-BAA
He also said he was going to retire after the 03 season and be a minister.
This contract is Mo's last. What else can he do? He has been a lights out closer for 9 seasons and has won 4 world championships. I would retire while my game was still on top and not wait for it to decline.
27IsNext
10-15-05, 08:21 PM
I think this contract is Mo's last. What else can he do. He has been a lights out closer for 9 seasons and has won 4 world championships. I would retire while my game was still on top and not wait for it to decline.
In any case, the day Mo is no longer with us is coming soon. We need to be ready.
In any case, the day Mo is no longer with us is coming soon. We need to be ready.
Yes I agree and that is why BJ Ryan should be one of the first that we court this off season.
2004, 87IP: 122Ks
2005, 70IP: 100Ks
Brad Lidge-70.2IP 58-H 18-ER 5-HER 23-BB 103-K 2.29-ERA 1.15-WHIP .233-BAA
BJ Ryan-70.1IP 54-H 19-ER 4-HR 26-BB 100-K 2.43-ERA 1.14-WHIP .208-BAA
Did you read my reasons though? He is shaky in a big spot and ran out of gas at the end of this year.
27IsNext
10-15-05, 08:27 PM
Not to mention the retaining of Cox and Schmidt.
ICEBERG18
10-15-05, 08:47 PM
Did you read my reasons though? He is shaky in a big spot and ran out of gas at the end of this year.
August/September 23.IP 16-H 3-ER 0-HR 8-BB 33-K. Didn't look like he ran out of gas to me.
What's you definition of shaky in a big spot? He had 2 bad outings out of 8 against the Redsox this year & he won't be facing the Yankees anymore.(Hopefully)
YankeePride1967
10-15-05, 08:57 PM
First, I think Ryan is overated. He was inconsistant against the Red Sox and Yankees and ran out of gas at the end of the year. As a potential playoff team, we can't have that. Although it would be tough, Wagner would be a much better signing.
Second, this idea that Mariano is done in 2 years (barring bad injury) is short sighted. This guy had his best season at 35 years old this year. And he still was able to hit 96/97 at times. He moves the ball around better and has an amazing cutter. He still is a one speed pitcher, (for the most part, the 4 seamer tends to have more zip on it), and if he develops a change he could pitch for 5 more years. I think if you told Ryan he would close at some point in a 3-4 year deal you would be lying.
First, I don't think Ryan is overrated, and at 29 vs. 34, is a much better signing than Ryan.
I don't disagree with point two, but Rivera has hinted that at the conclusion of this contract (after 2007 season) he is contemplating retirement. Skills or not if retirement is an option, we have to think about replacing him.
Looie #19
10-16-05, 03:49 AM
I think Rivera is by far the greatest closer ever, and probably the single factor (maybe a bit of hyperbole) for the 4 Championships, but it is pretty necessary to get a closer type to have just in case Mariano starts to show his age. Ryan is no Rivera, no one is, but Ryan is no pushover.
It's absolutely amazing what Rivera has done in his career. Even moreso, despite a few tough losses, he's been practically lights out on the biggest stage there is, the postseason. If I could have any player's talent in the world, it might just be Mo. Simply amazing. To believe that someone can be that great with one great pitch and the right mindset is unfathomable.
That said, there should be an insurance plan for your biggest asset. One hundred-eight and two thirds innings in the postseason, 0.75 ERA. How in the world?
BJ Ryan is no Rivera, but he's no Sturtze, either.
Bob Saccomano
10-16-05, 04:46 AM
I agree that we need to be thinking about who takes over the closer role once Rivera decides he is done (and I hope there's at least one, if not 2, more rings to see him off :)). Making shortsighted moves has been a forte of the current management, and thinking about the future would be a definite step in the right direction. That said, I don't think one can "replace" Mariano Rivera. I doubt there'll ever be a great closer like the Sandman in my lifetime. You find someone to fill the role of a closer, but I doubt we'll ever see someone do what Mo's done for the Yanks. :)
Looie #19
10-16-05, 05:08 AM
I don't see how this could be a bad move, unless there are unfavorable reports about his makeup. The Yankees have pretty much been lacking Nelson, Stanton, Mendoza (in their prime, obviously), I wouldn't see what would be wrong with getting what would be essentially Stanton with a ton more overall effectiveness. The caveat is really Gordon, him, Mo and Ryan would make a good group next year, but I really think Gordon is best for getting draft picks at this point. It leaves a hole in the bullpen, but honestly I really think Gordon is bound to blow up. I think he could be good for someone for a year, but not much more than that. Maybe he's become more of a pitcher, but his K rate is certainly a red flag. After his TJ surgery he went from a very good reliever with pretty good K rates, to a strikeout machine. This is his past 5 seasons:
2001: 13.30
2002: 10.13
2003: 11.07
2004: 9.64
2005: 7.7
His BB rate took a little bump as well. I can see some team like the Orioles or Mets given him decent money over two seasons. I just don't think he's worth for more than 1 year.
goin for 27
10-16-05, 09:18 AM
Yes I agree and that is why BJ Ryan should be one of the first that we court this off season.
Absolutely.
I hope that he is okay being the set up man. If he wants to close, like a Gordon, he will be very difficult to get.
38Special
10-16-05, 09:49 AM
Cox-Ryan-Rivera next October = CAJONES OF STEEL
27IsNext
10-16-05, 10:30 AM
Cox-Ryan-Rivera next October = CAJONES OF STEEL
Any chance it could be Schmidt-Cox-Ryan-Rivera? ;)
George Steinbrenner
10-16-05, 01:17 PM
we need to drive a dump truck of cash to his house and assure him he will become the closer in 2 years when Mo retires
Bob Saccomano
10-16-05, 01:46 PM
Cox-Ryan-Rivera next October = CAJONES OF STEEL
In October? How do you know what Ryan's numbers are like in October?
Yankyfan
10-16-05, 05:14 PM
I want Farnsworth and Ryan.Farnsworth can only set up and I also want Henn in the pen.
Absolutely.
I hope that he is okay being the set up man. If he wants to close, like a Gordon, he will be very difficult to get.
Ryan didn't like being a setup man with Baltimore. He was even pissed when he was moved to closer. He still believes he should be a starting pitcher.
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1130564502126130.xml&coll=1
Yankees: Agent says Ryan has interest, even if in set-up role
Saturday, October 29, 2005
BY ED PRICE
Star-Ledger Staff
NEW YORK -- The agent for Baltimore closer B.J. Ryan yesterday said that Ryan will test the free-agent market and is interested in the Yankees, even though that would mean moving to a set-up role.
"If and when the Yankees want to talk to us about him, we certainly will -- as with every other club," John Courtright said. "The Yankees aren't every other club.
"I think he'd love to close. But I think the first parameter to him is a chance to compete to win."
[...]
Dooley Womack
10-29-05, 01:50 AM
Everyone is interested in being a Yankee when they are free agents, even those who wouldn't come here if their life depended on it. Even coaches like Mazzone.
NYYBombshell
10-29-05, 01:54 AM
Everyone is interested in being a Yankee when they are free agents, even those who wouldn't come here if their life depended on it. Even coaches like Mazzone.
It's where everyone wants to end up but no one wants to admit it.
Everyone is interested in being a Yankee when they are free agents, even those who wouldn't come here if their life depended on it. Even coaches like Mazzone.
Mazzone is one of Sam Perlozzo's best friends. In order to get him, the Yankees would have had to shatter the salary structure for coaches. They were unwilling to do that.
They will, however, be willing to pay Ryan closer money.
Dooley Womack
10-29-05, 03:06 AM
Mazzone is one of Sam Perlozzo's best friends. In order to get him, the Yankees would have had to shatter the salary structure for coaches. They were unwilling to do that.
They will, however, be willing to pay Ryan closer money.
My point is that Mazzone probably never had any intention of coming to NY and used the Yanks to get the most $ out of the O's. It's typical of many free agents.
My point is that Mazzone probably never had any intention of coming to NY and used the Yanks to get the most $ out of the O's. It's typical of many free agents.
And my point is that Ryan probably won't do that.
Yankees1962
10-29-05, 03:22 AM
And my point is that Ryan probably won't do that.
Like most players, it seems to me that Ryan wants to make money, but he also wants to play for a winner and be a part of a team that can win a WS. Based on his quotes, he appears to enjoy the atmosphere surrounding the Yankees and is interested in being a part of that atmosphere.
JapanJobbers
10-29-05, 03:40 AM
Like most players, it seems to me that Ryan wants to make money, but he also wants to play for a winner and be a part of a team that can win a WS. Based on his quotes, he appears to enjoy the atmosphere surrounding the Yankees and is interested in being a part of that atmosphere.
I think he would come to the Yankees, but I think the chances are higher he won't. I just think that if he gets a similar offer with a team where he would be the closer, he would take that over winning.
bakntime
10-29-05, 03:52 AM
I think he would come to the Yankees, but I think the chances are higher he won't. I just think that if he gets a similar offer with a team where he would be the closer, he would take that over winning.What makes you think he'd take being a closer over being a winner?
Personally, if the money was for the most part equal, I'd most definitely take setting up for Mo and getting a chance to win with the Yankees over being a closer for a less-likely-to-succeed team.
rightfielder21
10-29-05, 07:15 AM
A punch of Ryan and Rivera at the end of a game, with a "Dotel" type pitcher (hard throwing righty)in front of them is a deadly back end...
CalYankeeFan
10-29-05, 07:55 AM
I think he would come to the Yankees, but I think the chances are higher he won't. I just think that if he gets a similar offer with a team where he would be the closer, he would take that over winning.
What about stepping into the closer role when :eek: mo retires
Yankee Bulldawg
10-29-05, 07:58 AM
that would be an awesome 1-2 punch for the Yankees to have Ryan as the setup man and Mo as the closer. then when Mo decides to retire Ryan could step in and become the closer just like Mo did when Wettland left.
ericns1
10-29-05, 08:02 AM
It is a no brainer - sign him - then with Colter Bean from AAa and in the future Cox we will have a good pen for years to come - and Mo will no longer have to pithc as mcuh which will help keep him at the top of his game -
It is a no brainer - sign him - then with Colter Bean from AAa and in the future Cox we will have a good pen for years to come
Colter Bean? Colter Bean has never been in their plans and he will be 29 in Jan. If they believed he was any good, they would have called him up more this year. He is viewed as an older AAAA pitcher who gets less experienced hitters out with junk. Nothing more.
With teams that have a very good closer, the set up man is just as important as he is. What good is a closer if you can't get to him with a lead. There should be very little difference in salary between the two.
Ryan could become the Yankee closer before his prospective contract with the Yankees expires.
Pinstriped2
10-29-05, 11:55 AM
Agreed. We saw way too many melt downs leading up to Mo. Having a good solid relief bridge is equally important in this day and age when starting pitchers are lucky to make it through six or seven as having a good solid closer.
Agreed. We saw way too many melt downs leading up to Mo. Having a good solid relief bridge is equally important in this day and age when starting pitchers are lucky to make it through six or seven as having a good solid closer.
Our middle relief was bad. Gordon was great in the regular season. Ryan will be replacing him but that still leaves us with bad middle relief. We have to address that ASAP after signing Ryan.
TalkYank
10-29-05, 12:14 PM
That would be awesome if we get BJ. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll keep Gordon unless he changes his mind...
Yankees1962
10-29-05, 12:18 PM
That would be awesome if we get BJ. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll keep Gordon unless he changes his mind...
I'm ready to let Gordon go because I think he's on verge of having arm problems again.
yank4life2005
10-29-05, 12:28 PM
I think our chances only increase if Guidry is hired as the Pitching coach as I have heard they are pretty good friends.
ring403
10-29-05, 12:34 PM
I'm ready to let Gordon go because I think he's on verge of having arm problems again.
Ryan would be a nice replacement for Gordon, but his signing wouldn't do anything to allieviate the middle relief problem. The Yankees will have to overpay Ryan as a setup man, and still probably have to overpay a setup guy like Farnsworth to be a middle reliever in order to assure a better pen in 2006.
Yankees1962
10-29-05, 12:38 PM
Ryan would be a nice replacement for Gordon, but his signing wouldn't do anything to allieviate the middle relief problem. The Yankees will have to overpay Ryan as a setup man, and still probably have to overpay a setup guy like Farnsworth to be a middle reliever in order to assure a better pen in 2006.
Agreed, another reliever needs to be added if they acquire Ryan and let Gordon go.
FMITK2005
10-29-05, 12:48 PM
Agreed, another reliever needs to be added if they acquire Ryan and let Gordon go.
I agree with that also.
IMHO they need to get Ryan and get two other solid relievers to be become a worthy bullpen.
StatenIslandYankee
10-29-05, 12:57 PM
We need about 3 relief pitchers aside from Ryan.
We need about 3 relief pitchers aside from Ryan.
OK the more the merrier. As they say, you can't have enough pitching. :D
StatenIslandYankee
10-29-05, 01:02 PM
OK the more the merrier. As they say, you can't have enough pitching. :D
I would look at it as
Rivera (Closer)
Ryan (set up man)
and 3 MRP will be needed to save strain on the starting pitching. I say 3 because if we use hem everyday we can spot one pitcher or 2 and rotate the duty of middle relief.
I mean look at the Angels, they have
Krod, Shields, Donnelly, Gregg and Yan.
Yankees1962
10-29-05, 01:13 PM
We need about 3 relief pitchers aside from Ryan.
That would be nice, but I doubt it would happen in just one off-season. Besides Ryan, I can see the Yankees picking up a Dotel type and perhaps one more pitcher while filling in the rest of the bullpen with current players.
The Q Bomb
10-29-05, 01:23 PM
I would look at it as
Rivera (Closer)
Ryan (set up man)
and 3 MRP will be needed to save strain on the starting pitching. ....
How about trying something novel - get your starting pitchers to go more than 5 innings!
NYDCYankee
10-29-05, 01:26 PM
we should look at Howry
Enter_Sandman_42
10-29-05, 01:26 PM
I know not many would agree, but if we can keep Gordon and sign Ryan that would give us maybe the best 1-2-3 in baseball right up there with the a Angels and Escobar-Shields-Krod.
apolansk
10-29-05, 01:27 PM
How about trying something novel - get your starting pitchers to go more than 5 innings!
NO WAY 5 and fly, and the bullpen is on the hook!
That seems successful right?
I'd be willing to bet that the teams that have been in the WS the last five or so years, have had their starters be top 3 in the league in innings pitched.
MattUNC2003
10-29-05, 01:45 PM
How about trying something novel - get your starting pitchers to go more than 5 innings!
What? A Yankees' starter going past the 6th inning and into the 7th!?
Blasphemy!
Here's my thoughs on the BP situation: (Plus, I am slacking off from writing a paper...)
I would love to see this staff get to the point where we've got some good young arms in the starting rotation that can actually go into the 7th on a regular basis and still be effective. With the potential and looming addition of people the likes of T-Clip, Hughes, and DeSalvo (cept, he might go to the pen), there is a possibility that within the next two years, 7 inning starts might be the norm again for Yankee pitching. Which is fine by me.
However, due to the current state of the starting rotation (inconsistent and aging), I think that it is very valid to add up to 4 relief pitchers to the roster this offseason for support. I personally would love to see Ryan signed, along with someone like Julian Tavares for the 7th. Matt Smith and Ben Julianel could cheaply fill in the remaining two spots. Also, resign (he is a FA...right?) Small as a Long-Reliever and Spot Starter. This would mean that Tanyon's time in pinstripes would come to an end, alongside that of Tom Gordon's. Possibly a very unpopular move with some posters on this forum.
Roberto Kelly
10-29-05, 01:53 PM
I think that BJ Ryan is a must sign. As far as Gordon goes, I really believe his best years are behind him and would not be too upset to see him go. As for filling out the rest of the pen, I don't really feel comfortable reaching into the grab bag of the best available relief free agents. That really hasn't worked out too well for us as of late. Why not give the Matt Smiths and Colter Beans of the world a chance to fill out the pen instead of throwing gobs of money at a guy like Farnsworth.
THEBOSS84
10-29-05, 02:29 PM
I think that BJ Ryan is a must sign. As far as Gordon goes, I really believe his best years are behind him and would not be too upset to see him go. As for filling out the rest of the pen, I don't really feel comfortable reaching into the grab bag of the best available relief free agents. That really hasn't worked out too well for us as of late. Why not give the Matt Smiths and Colter Beans of the world a chance to fill out the pen instead of throwing gobs of money at a guy like Farnsworth.
Yeah seriously, how many times have we seen over the last couple of years some no name pitchers around the league turn into solid relievers?? It even happened to us for one season with Sturtze(well kinda).
I think we should sign Ryan, and maybe a guy like Farnsworth (wouldnt cost more than 4 mil annualy) and fill the rest of the bullpen with the Beans and M. Smiths of the world - it seems to work for everyone else (cleveland, chisox, oakland) why not us??
drjeckyl
10-29-05, 04:59 PM
Yeah seriously, how many times have we seen over the last couple of years some no name pitchers around the league turn into solid relievers?? It even happened to us for one season with Sturtze(well kinda).
I think we should sign Ryan, and maybe a guy like Farnsworth (wouldnt cost more than 4 mil annualy) and fill the rest of the bullpen with the Beans and M. Smiths of the world - it seems to work for everyone else (cleveland, chisox, oakland) why not us??
I'm thrilled to hear that Ryan would entertain the idea of signing as a setup guy with the Yankees. I'd love to have him in the bullpen. I think we have to shore up the bullpen as the first priority (even before CF). Ryan would go along way towards that goal. But Farnsworth too?... I have mixed feeling about him.. He had a great year in 05, but he's been average in previous years. I don't think he warrants a big contract. He reminds me of other free agent relievers we've signed in the past. In recent memory, I recall Steve Karsay, Chris Hammond, Paul Quantrill. Guys who excelled before signing and then really layed an egg for us. I'd like to pass on Farnsorth, and give Sturtz, Proctor and which ever starter doesn't make the rotation the other lots.
But Farnsworth too?... I have mixed feeling about him.. He had a great year in 05, but he's been average in previous years.
That's the problem with some people on this board they think since he had one great year he should be a target to get for our bullpen. He also gave up a huge lead late in the game to the Astros in Game 4 of the NLDS.
Howry is probably the best option out there as far as a middle reliever if the Yankees were to obtain Ryan. Howry, however, in my opinion is simply not enough. What whill happen if only Ryan and Howry are acquired is what has already happened to Gordon and Sturtze. Ryan and Howry will be overworked to high hell and come the postseason they will be virtually useless. Some might hope Gordon can stay to be that third man, however, while I think Gordon has been tremendous for the Yankees in the regular season you could literally see him regressing over these last two years from all of the innings he has pitched. Eyre is an option for that third guy out of the pen, but I'd probably prefer a second right hander to go along with Howry seeing as how if worse comes to worse there is always the option of bringing up Matt Smith, simply using Ryan when necessary agaianst left handers, or going with a cheaper alternative in Saurbeck.
That's the problem with some people on this board they think since he had one great year he should be a target to get for our bullpen. He also gave up a huge lead late in the game to the Astros in Game 4 of the NLDS.
Because of that meltdown in the playoffs his value has perhaps decreased. He would be a hell of a lot better than Sturtze/Proctor in the seventh inning. If Farnsworth can be had for cheap I see no reason to not go after him.
That's the problem with some people on this board they think since he had one great year he should be a target to get for our bullpen. He also gave up a huge lead late in the game to the Astros in Game 4 of the NLDS.
He wouldn't be the closer or the primary set up man.
drjeckyl
10-29-05, 05:25 PM
Because of that meltdown in the playoffs his value has perhaps decreased. He would be a hell of a lot better than Sturtze/Proctor in the seventh inning. If Farnsworth can be had for cheap I see no reason to not go after him.
I completely agree if he can be had cheap. Why not? But, probably, someone will overpay for him.
HouseThatRingsBuild
10-29-05, 05:26 PM
I new he was auditioning for us, when he struck out Jeter.
I completely agree if he can be had cheap. Why not? But, probably, someone will overpay for him.
That remains to be seen. This is wishful thinking on my part but maybe his melt downs in high pressure situation will cause other teams to stay away from him.
nycdoc999
10-29-05, 05:35 PM
Simply stated, middle relief was our biggest problem last year. Overall defense a close 2nd, especially OF defense, and inconsistent starting pitching were other weakesses.
The bullpen should be priority #1. Finding a CF who can play defense and get on base is priority #2.
Signing BJ Ryan (3/$15M with a 4th year option), offering Gordon arbitration (and assuming he accepts and gets $3.5M), and signing another power arm (I personally like Farnsworth) would be a good start. Small and Sturtze could round out the pen. I like the idea of keeping Sturtze b/c we can use him in the 5th and 6th innings of relatively close games. A LOOGY doesn't make alot of sense, since Ryan get get out lefties as well as righties, and it decreases the flexibility of the pen. This is partly about protecting Ryan and Rivera a bit so they're fresh in the post-season, and about being able to consistently win those 6-4, 7-5 games that we'll play next year given the inconsistencies with starting pitching.
ALL the bullpen arms must be dependable for something. My perfect world:
Small (long man, spot starter)
Sturtze (5th/6th inning guy, blowout guy)
Gordon (7th inning guy, 3-4 run lead guy)
Farnsworth (7th/8th inning guy, esp in a closer game)
Ryan (7th/8th inning guy in most close/tie games)
Mo (closer)
We can then go out and get a reasonable defensive CF (Wilkerson, Bradley, etc) and have a team that can still hit and can shorten the game considerably, enabling us to win many of the games we lost last year, both in the regular season and in the playoffs (Game 3, ALDS hurt!)
longtimeyankeefan
10-29-05, 06:40 PM
I don't see Gordon accepting arbitration and getting $3.5M when he earned $3.75M this past season while posting a .203 BAA and a 2.57ERA.
Plus, having just paid BJRyan three years at an average of $5M per would give Gordon all the ammunition that he needs to argue for - at the least - the same dollars.
Wagner will set the market for closers this off-season. Once he falls, I expect Gordon to be close behind at 75-80% of his average salary.
=====
One name that hasn't been mentioned much is Trevor Hoffman. Granted, he is getting up in age, but he remains a very effective closer and is a free agent. At this point in his career, would he be interested in joining the Yankees on a one or two year contract?
drjeckyl
10-29-05, 06:57 PM
I don't see Gordon accepting arbitration and getting $3.5M when he earned $3.75M this past season while posting a .203 BAA and a 2.57ERA.
I thought Gordon has openly said that he want to close next year. Am I mistaken?
One name that hasn't been mentioned much is Trevor Hoffman. Granted, he is getting up in age, but he remains a very effective closer and is a free agent. At this point in his career, would he be interested in joining the Yankees on a one or two year contract?
Interesting notion. But, I just don't see him accepting a setup roll when there are so many teams seeking closers and he is still an effective closer.
ring403
10-29-05, 07:00 PM
Wagner will set the market for closers this off-season. Once he falls, I expect Gordon to be close behind at 75-80% of his average salary.
If Gordon is offered, and accepts salary arbitration form the Yankees, he will argue for and recieve setup man money. What Wagner signs for is irrelevent. Wagner will be getting something north of $10 million per season, as one of the games best closers.
Gordon will get a raise from $3.75 million, but it won't be anywhere near 80% of Wagner's salary, even if he decides to take a closer job somewhere else.
THEBOSS84
10-29-05, 07:00 PM
I thought Gordon has openly said that he want to close next year. Am I mistaken?
Interesting notion. But, I just don't see him accepting a setup roll when there are so many teams seeking closers and he is still an effective closer.
noone seems to be mentioning eddie guardado either
He wouldn't be the closer or the primary set up man.
I know that. I still don't want him.
nycdoc999
10-29-05, 07:35 PM
No way Gordon gets anything like closer money if he isn't closing.
You're right on the salary though - meant to type $4.5M, which is a substantial raise for him and more in line with money that BJ Ryan's gonna get.
Wagner wants Mo-type money - 3y/$30M - and the Mets might go give him that.
Ryan might get closer to 3y/$17M since it will be a bidding war for him with the Red Sox, Orioles, and Phillies/Mets all in the fray (whoever doesn't get Wagner will go hard for him).
In the Yanks best interests to go after Ryan hard and make a strong pre-emptive offer to him and Farnsworth. By then we'll know what Gordon will do - and I doubt he closes for any reasonable team next year. If he wants to close for a crappy team - well then that's fine.
As for Guardado - he doesn't want anything less than $5M per year and wants to close - and that's payin alot for a old guy comin off an arm injury. No thanks on him....
Go get Farnsworth and Ryan. Even if we lose Gordon, we get draft picks to offset getting Ryan. If we lose Gordon, we bring up Matt Smith or Colter Bean and have a pen that consists of
Small
Sturtze
Farnsworth
Smith/Bean
Ryan
Rivera
Still pretty damn good and a definite improvement. The money saved on Gordon could be used to sure-up the bench.....
I know that. I still don't want him.
What about Dotel? Any reports on the state of his recovery?
What about Dotel? Any reports on the state of his recovery?
Rich, I know just as much as you do regarding Dotel. If healthy I would take a look at him.
What about Dotel? Any reports on the state of his recovery?
Dotel is throwing from a distance of 60 feet already, will move to 75 feet next week and will throw off a mound starting in December. He hopes to be ready for the start of spring training.
That's off rotoworld. I get the feeling that whatever team takes a flyer on him is going to be very well rewarded if not this year then the next. He has mentioned he would be interested in resigning with Oakland for league minimum to prove himself, but Oakland hasn't contacted him.
longtimeyankeefan
10-29-05, 07:47 PM
Dotel is throwing from a distance of 60 feet already, will move to 75 feet next week and will throw off a mound starting in December. He hopes to be ready for the start of spring training.
That's off rotoworld. I get the feeling that whatever team takes a flyer on him is going to be very well rewarded if not this year then the next. He has mentioned he would be interested in resigning with Oakland for league minimum to prove himself, but Oakland hasn't contacted him.
The Yankees have a history of taking flyers on injured pitchers, so this idea certainly is not outside the realm of possibility.
AMYanks
10-29-05, 07:51 PM
Dotel could be a huge sleeper signing. Could be similar to the Lieber situation.
ICEBERG18
10-29-05, 07:51 PM
What about Dotel? Any reports on the state of his recovery?
Jon Lieber type deal anyone?
Dotel is throwing from a distance of 60 feet already, will move to 75 feet next week and will throw off a mound starting in December. He hopes to be ready for the start of spring training.
That's off rotoworld. I get the feeling that whatever team takes a flyer on him is going to be very well rewarded if not this year then the next. He has mentioned he would be interested in resigning with Oakland for league minimum to prove himself, but Oakland hasn't contacted him.
Hopefully Cash will be making a phone call sometime soon.
jonnyc39
10-29-05, 08:09 PM
Dotel is throwing from a distance of 60 feet already, will move to 75 feet next week and will throw off a mound starting in December. He hopes to be ready for the start of spring training.
That's off rotoworld. I get the feeling that whatever team takes a flyer on him is going to be very well rewarded if not this year then the next. He has mentioned he would be interested in resigning with Oakland for league minimum to prove himself, but Oakland hasn't contacted him.
Yeahh, if I were Oakland I wouldn't contact him either. He completely quit on them this year.
Yeahh, if I were Oakland I wouldn't contact him either. He completely quit on them this year.
How so?
jonnyc39
10-29-05, 08:22 PM
How so?
After two (I believe it was two) doctors told him in May that he could continue to pitch for the rest of the year, he decided for himself that he needed to shut it down because his shoulder was bothering him.
I'd be a little annoyed if several doctors told my player he could continue to pitch but he didn't want to.
Not saying I wouldn't sign the guy in the future, but that's not something I'd be happy about if he were on my team.
After two (I believe it was two) doctors told him in May that he could continue to pitch for the rest of the year, he decided for himself that he needed to shut it down because his shoulder was bothering him.
I'd be a little annoyed if several doctors told my player he could continue to pitch but he didn't want to.
Not saying I wouldn't sign the guy in the future, but that's not something I'd be happy about if he were on my team.
Oh wow, I did not know that. But wasn't he sucking at that time? Maybe he thought it would be best for him and the team if he went on the DL?
ICEBERG18
10-29-05, 08:28 PM
After two (I believe it was two) doctors told him in May that he could continue to pitch for the rest of the year, he decided for himself that he needed to shut it down because his shoulder was bothering him.
Wasn't that the case with Pavano also?
Oh wow, I did not know that. But wasn't he sucking at that time? Maybe he thought it would be best for him and the team if he went on the DL?
That was his reasoning behind it. His velocity had already dropped and his stuff was down right terrible especially for a closer. It all came to a head when he blew those two saves in Boston. You can't blame the guy considering he knew something was wrong with him.
jonnyc39
10-29-05, 08:31 PM
Oh wow, I did not know that. But wasn't he sucking at that time? Maybe he thought it would be best for him and the team if he went on the DL?
Yeah, it was shortly after his two blown saves in two days against the Sox. Maybe that was his mindset - but Oakland still wanted him to pitch. There may be more to the story, but nothing I am aware of.
Wasn't that the case with Pavano also?
And Pavano, unlike Dotel, had the security of a long term contract.
Tons of guys have issues. If he can be signed cheaply, he's worth a shot.
jonnyc39
10-29-05, 08:40 PM
Tons of guys have issues. If he can be signed cheaply, he's worth a shot.
Agreed.
Prickly Pete
10-29-05, 08:56 PM
Dotel is upset that he was second-guessed for electing to have the surgery after four doctors, including Andrews, advised him to rehab the elbow instead. Dotel felt he was portrayed as if he were shirking his duty by going against the recommendations, but he knew he could not pitch with any consistency because the tremendous pain he was having essentially prevented him from using his slider. The fact that Andrews removed the calcified chunks makes Dotel feel vindicated.
"I asked the doctor, 'Did I do the right thing?' and he said, 'Yes, you did,' '' Dotel said. "The things people said ticked me off -- why would I have surgery unless I had to, especially with no contract for next year? The last thing I wanted to do was stop playing, but I had no choice, I had to get this straightened out.''
A reason the doctors advised against surgery was that MRI exams showed that things might not go smoothly, but, Dotel said, "Once he got in there, everything was different from the MRI. When he saw that, he said I could be pitching in April.''
San Francisco Chronicle (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/09/SPGB2D5RLK1.DTL)
CalYankeeFan
10-29-05, 09:09 PM
That's the problem with some people on this board they think since he had one great year he should be a target to get for our bullpen. He also gave up a huge lead late in the game to the Astros in Game 4 of the NLDS.
It's not just this board, the Yankee FO has been guilty of it too...throw in a good season after an arm injury and they become a must sign...then their arms fall off.
jonnyc39
10-29-05, 09:16 PM
San Francisco Chronicle (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/09/SPGB2D5RLK1.DTL)
Good link. That it for what it's worth, I guess.
It's not just this board, the Yankee FO has been guilty of it too...throw in a good season after an arm injury and they become a must sign...then their arms fall off.
If he comes cheap then you will have a problem with him replaceing Sturtze?
AMYanks
10-29-05, 09:37 PM
San Francisco Chronicle (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/09/SPGB2D5RLK1.DTL)
Good article. He's not stupid enough to get surgery, in his contract year, unless he REALLY needed it. I don't buy the excuse he quit on his team. Individually, it was of his best interest to play through it. The fact that he didn't tells me there was a serious problem that needed to get fixed.
Prickly Pete
10-29-05, 09:39 PM
Good article. He's not stupid enough to get surgery, in his contract year, unless he REALLY needed it. I don't buy the excuse he quit on his team. Individually, it was of his best interest to play through it. The fact that he didn't tells me there was a serious problem that needed to get fixed.
Plus, you've gotta love a guy with freakishly long tendons.
Dotel said that a tendon was taken from his leg and it was so long that Andrews was able to wrap it three times around the elbow, which is unusual.
sugmasterflex
10-29-05, 09:49 PM
That would be nice, but I doubt it would happen in just one off-season. Besides Ryan, I can see the Yankees picking up a Dotel type and perhaps one more pitcher while filling in the rest of the bullpen with current players.
Let Gordon go, sign Ryan, sign the best FA reliever not offered arbitration, and give Henn a shot in the bullpen.
Do u think the Mets would go for this...
We give them:
Tom Gordon
Tony Womack
Bubba Crosby
We get:
Carlos Beltran
Any takers? JR
AMYanks
10-29-05, 10:24 PM
Do u think the Mets would go for this...
We give them:
Tom Gordon
Tony Womack
Bubba Crosby
We get:
Carlos Beltran
Any takers? JR
For some reason... I doubt it. :D
It's not just this board, the Yankee FO has been guilty of it too...throw in a good season after an arm injury and they become a must sign...then their arms fall off.
I'm not denying that. Yes, the FO has made some foolish moves and hopefully they will make less this coming off season.
And Pavano, unlike Dotel, had the security of a long term contract.
Tons of guys have issues. If he can be signed cheaply, he's worth a shot.
What is the deal with Pavano? Is he going to be 100% ready for spring training?
CptCrunch
10-29-05, 10:41 PM
Do u think the Mets would go for this...
We give them:
Tom Gordon
Tony Womack
Bubba Crosby
We get:
Carlos Beltran
Any takers? JR
Gordon's a free agent. Not that anyone would do that trade anyway since quantity does not equal quality.
nycdoc999
10-29-05, 10:49 PM
Can't let Gordon go without offering him arbitration. That's a risk we defnitely have to take, since it nets us a good reliever (in medium leverage situations in the 6th and 7th innings only) if he accepts and 2 draft picks if he declines and goes elsewhere.
Signing Dotel to an incentive-laden deal would be intriguing. But I'd only do it as an extra arm - not counting on him to be a primary arm in the pen this year.
I still say - sign Ryan, offer Gordon arb, sign Farnsworth, keep Sturtze and Small. If Gordon accepts, fine - if not, bring up Matt Smith or Colter Bean to round out the pen
Stupid Flanders
10-29-05, 10:55 PM
Do u think the Mets would go for this...
We give them:
Tom Gordon
Tony Womack
Bubba Crosby
We get:
Carlos Beltran
Any takers? JReven if gordon wasn't a free agent, Minaya wouldnt take that
Soriambi
10-29-05, 11:53 PM
Can't let Gordon go without offering him arbitration. That's a risk we defnitely have to take, since it nets us a good reliever (in medium leverage situations in the 6th and 7th innings only) if he accepts and 2 draft picks if he declines and goes elsewhere.
Signing Dotel to an incentive-laden deal would be intriguing. But I'd only do it as an extra arm - not counting on him to be a primary arm in the pen this year.
Agreed. I don't even think it's a risk. I think that it would be a plus if he accepts, a plus if he doesn't. Gordon is still a very good reliever. If they got Ryan, Rivera, Ryan, and Gordon would a 1-2-3 out of the pen that is very tough to beat. And, like you said, if he declines and goes somewhere else, we get draft picks, which is nice as well. Offering him arbitration is a must.
I was under the impression that Dotel will miss all of 2006. Does anyone know if this is right? I suggested to a friend earlier this off-season that we go after him and sign him to a deal like we signed Lieber to, where he basically gets paid for doing nothing in 2006, and is here in 2007 at well below market value. It's something that I would at least look into if I was the Yanks, as it could potentially pay off in 2007, and they probably wouldn't have to pay a huge price at all considering the injury. Of course, there might be another team that offers him the same kind of deal and offers him a closer role in 2007, which he might go for before our offer, but like I said, I'd at least think about it if I was Cashman.
BroadwayBomber55
10-30-05, 12:45 AM
Agreed. I don't even think it's a risk. I think that it would be a plus if he accepts, a plus if he doesn't. Gordon is still a very good reliever. If they got Ryan, Rivera, Ryan, and Gordon would a 1-2-3 out of the pen that is very tough to beat. And, like you said, if he declines and goes somewhere else, we get draft picks, which is nice as well. Offering him arbitration is a must.
I was under the impression that Dotel will miss all of 2006. Does anyone know if this is right? I suggested to a friend earlier this off-season that we go after him and sign him to a deal like we signed Lieber to, where he basically gets paid for doing nothing in 2006, and is here in 2007 at well below market value. It's something that I would at least look into if I was the Yanks, as it could potentially pay off in 2007, and they probably wouldn't have to pay a huge price at all considering the injury. Of course, there might be another team that offers him the same kind of deal and offers him a closer role in 2007, which he might go for before our offer, but like I said, I'd at least think about it if I was Cashman.
B.J. Ryan has yet to be tested in the postseason and we all know Tom Gordon doesn't have the mental toughness to succeed in the playoffs, unless he proves me wrong if he re-signs with the Yankees.
As for Dotel, he's served best as a set-up man and only a set-up man. Still, another pitcher that has yet to be proven in the postseason.
sugmasterflex
10-30-05, 01:04 AM
Btw, what is everyone's fascination w/ Kyle Farnsworth?
NewEraYanks2527
10-30-05, 01:16 AM
Btw, what is everyone's fascination w/ Kyle Farnsworth?
He's a quality arm out there that can be acquired without trading anyone, probably not closer material as shown in the NLDS but a good weapon as a setup guy. A bullpen of Gordon, Farnsworth, Ryan, Rivera would be pretty nasty.
Btw, what is everyone's fascination w/ Kyle Farnsworth?
As far as pure stuff goes he's got some of the most raw talent among all set up men in the league. He just needs to consistentlty harness it.
sugmasterflex
10-30-05, 01:32 AM
He's a quality arm out there that can be acquired without trading anyone, probably not closer material as shown in the NLDS but a good weapon as a setup guy. A bullpen of Gordon, Farnsworth, Ryan, Rivera would be pretty nasty.
Farnsworth is inconsistent and I think a headcase. This guy is not that great in big situations as witnessed in the NLDS. I wouldn't touch him.
conkermaniac
10-30-05, 01:01 AM
Would it be a bad thing to throw $10 mil/yr at Billy Wagner for a 7th/8th inning role (he could alternate with Ryan)? I mean, we do have nearly $30 mil coming off the books with Bernie and Brown, so overpaying for middle relief is a possibility. Yes, I know that Wagner wants to close, but money does talk.
It's too bad we overpaid for Posada, Jeter, and Mussina. We'd have a lot more flexibility otherwise.
longtimeyankeefan
10-30-05, 06:39 AM
Would it be a bad thing to throw $10 mil/yr at Billy Wagner for a 7th/8th inning role (he could alternate with Ryan)? I mean, we do have nearly $30 mil coming off the books with Bernie and Brown, so overpaying for middle relief is a possibility. Yes, I know that Wagner wants to close, but money does talk.
It's too bad we overpaid for Posada, Jeter, and Mussina. We'd have a lot more flexibility otherwise.
You are complaining about overpaying for Posada, Jeter and Mussina and yet you want to overpay for Wagner in the role that he would fill. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
As far as Wagner taking $10M to setup for the Yankees, I have read that he would likely get similar money to close for someone else, so what makes you think that this attempt would work?
Captain Yankee
10-30-05, 12:13 PM
I hope Gordon's days as a Yankee are over. I don't think he comes back here. BJ Ryan allows the Yankees to have a lefty in the bullpen who can get guys out in the late innings. Looking at potential playoff opponents for the future---Ryan would be useful against such players as David Ortiz, Travis Hafner, or Eric Chavez. Ryan would most likely be the 8th inning guy. The Yankees need to seriously look for a 7th inning type of guy. Can Farnsworth fill that role? Will the Yankees overspend for Wagner? Is there someone currently on the roster who could fill this role (paging Jaret Wright)?
nycdoc999
10-30-05, 12:20 PM
No way they pay Billy Wagner $10M a year to be a SET UP guy. No way.
Would throw the reliever pay scale totally out of wack, and screw them in the long run.
And why? BJ Ryan is many years younger and has shown the ability to get both lefties and righties out in pressure situations. AND he'll come at 1/2 the cost!
For that $10M they could get Ryan and TWO other quality arms to round out the pen (lets say Gordon if he accepts arb or Farnsworth PLUS a LOOGY if need be like Eyre or Sauerbeck if they didn't want to trust Matt Smith with the job)...
For that $10M a year they could get Ryan, Gordon/Farnsworth, and a quality utility guy NOT named Tony Womack....
Let the Mets pay 3/$33M for Wagner to close. We can't pay him that much to set up when there are so many other good options available to us....
nycdoc999
10-30-05, 12:26 PM
Captain Yankee, why don't you think Gordon would be acceptable as the 7th inning guy for a year? Even this year, he pitched to a 2.57 ERA and held batters to a .203 BAA. I understand his failures in the post-season, but Farnsworth hasn't exactly proven he can get the job done in those high-leverage situations either.
AND - BJ Ryan and Rivera would be handling most of those high-leverage 8th and 9th inning situations in the post-season. To my mind, Gordon would be a good bet to come in and get a guy like Renteria with 2 outs in the 6th or one on and one out in the 7th. Of course, you wouldn't use him get Ortiz in those spots - that's why we have to get Ryan.
A pen of Rivera, Ryan, Gordon, Sturtze, Small, and a LOOGY (or Farnsworth as well if we really want to spend and make the pen an asset) would give us the best pen in the league. It would shorten the games considerably, and take the pressure of both the starting pitching as well as Rivera (he would not have to get too many 4-6 out saves, that's for sure). We could rest Rivera on certain days and have Ryan close. We could rest Ryan AND Rivera and let Farnsworth and/or Gordon pitch the late innings at times. Small would be a great long man/spot starter, and you have Sturtze in lower leverage situations with less pressure in the 5th/6th innings.
Fixing the pen is the single fastest way to ensure we return to the post-season - and succeed this time.
Captain Yankee, why don't you think Gordon would be acceptable as the 7th inning guy for a year? Even this year, he pitched to a 2.57 ERA and held batters to a .203 BAA. I understand his failures in the post-season, but Farnsworth hasn't exactly proven he can get the job done in those high-leverage situations either.
AND - BJ Ryan and Rivera would be handling most of those high-leverage 8th and 9th inning situations in the post-season. To my mind, Gordon would be a good bet to come in and get a guy like Renteria with 2 outs in the 6th or one on and one out in the 7th. Of course, you wouldn't use him get Ortiz in those spots - that's why we have to get Ryan.
A pen of Rivera, Ryan, Gordon, Sturtze, Small, and a LOOGY (or Farnsworth as well if we really want to spend and make the pen an asset) would give us the best pen in the league. It would shorten the games considerably, and take the pressure of both the starting pitching as well as Rivera (he would not have to get too many 4-6 out saves, that's for sure). We could rest Rivera on certain days and have Ryan close. We could rest Ryan AND Rivera and let Farnsworth and/or Gordon pitch the late innings at times. Small would be a great long man/spot starter, and you have Sturtze in lower leverage situations with less pressure in the 5th/6th innings.
Fixing the pen is the single fastest way to ensure we return to the post-season - and succeed this time.
Because Gordon would never slip down the scale to the 7th inning, he want to close, and if someone want him, toodle-do Tom.
surge511
10-30-05, 03:58 PM
Because Gordon would never slip down the scale to the 7th inning, he want to close, and if someone want him, toodle-do Tom.
Gordon doesn't want to pitch the 8th; he wants to close. I don't think he would accept an even further demotion.
Looie #19
10-30-05, 06:50 PM
toodle-do Tom.
Might I ask, what in the world does this mean?
nycdoc999
10-30-05, 07:23 PM
No one's gonna commit closer dollars and 2 years to Tom Gordon, who's pushing 40, has had numerous arm injuries, and has thrown 90 innings each year the past two years....
And if someone does - we'll happily take the 2 draft picks we'll get for offering him arbitration and go sign Farnsworth to pitch the 7th.
He might pitch the 7th if it means (a) getting more $ than he did last year, (b) not having the pressure of the 8th inning, and (c) being on a team that's gonna win.
Might I ask, what in the world does this mean?
If I'm not mistaken it means bye bye Tom.
38Special
10-30-05, 07:27 PM
"BJ Ryan interested in money"
"BJ Ryan interested in money"
Hey, aren't we all?
:)
conkermaniac
10-31-05, 03:01 AM
For that $10M they could get Ryan and TWO other quality arms to round out the pen (lets say Gordon if he accepts arb or Farnsworth PLUS a LOOGY if need be like Eyre or Sauerbeck if they didn't want to trust Matt Smith with the job)...
You are not going to get 3 quality relievers for $10M. For one, if you want Ryan, you'll have to outbid the other teams who are willing to give him a closer's job. He'll probably take $6-7 million a year. And I'm sure the Yankees aren't the only ones who'll want these great pitchers that you speak of. Eyre's already making $1.5+ million, and coming off a good season, the market for him will be closer to $2 to $2.5 million. Gordon if he accepts arbitration will easily make $3+ million, if not more. Teams will be chasing after Farnsworth left and right, even after that dismal postseason performance, and I'd be surprised if he goes for less than $4 million.
My thinking is that spending $10 million on Billy Wagner would be better than spending $15 million on Kevin Brown. Wagner remains one of the most dominant relievers in the game, and even if we outrageously overpay him to pitch 7th/8th innings, it's still a savings compared to what we spent on Brown and Bernie last year. In fact, for the $30 million we spent on Brown and Bernie, we could probably get Wagner, Ryan, Sauerbeck, Eyre, and Farnsworth, and still be saving money. Of course we would have other problems then...
NYDCYankee
10-31-05, 04:54 AM
You are not going to get 3 quality relievers for $10M.
Not true. There is a difference between quality and overpaying.
B.J. Ryan has yet to be tested in the postseason and we all know Tom Gordon doesn't have the mental toughness to succeed in the playoffs, unless he proves me wrong if he re-signs with the Yankees.
As for Dotel, he's served best as a set-up man and only a set-up man. Still, another pitcher that has yet to be proven in the postseason.
True, but there aren't many guys out there with good results in playoff situations.
Look at Brad Lidge. Would you turn him down because he blew up in the post-season?
I think not. Gotta get the best you can, and hope they produce all year round.
I hope Gordon's days as a Yankee are over. I don't think he comes back here. BJ Ryan allows the Yankees to have a lefty in the bullpen who can get guys out in the late innings. Looking at potential playoff opponents for the future---Ryan would be useful against such players as David Ortiz, Travis Hafner, or Eric Chavez. Ryan would most likely be the 8th inning guy. The Yankees need to seriously look for a 7th inning type of guy. Can Farnsworth fill that role? Will the Yankees overspend for Wagner? Is there someone currently on the roster who could fill this role (paging Jaret Wright)?
7th inning guy = J. Taveras??
NYDCYankee
10-31-05, 06:43 AM
7th inning guy = J. Taveras??
It was mentioned in today's NY Post
rightfielder21
10-31-05, 07:14 AM
My thinking is that spending $10 million on Billy Wagner would be better than spending $15 million on Kevin Brown. ...
What you are not thinking about is the fact he will not sign up to be the third man in the pen, when he can be the first many other places...
BronxByTheBay
10-31-05, 08:58 AM
What you are not thinking about is the fact he will not sign up to be the third man in the pen, when he can be the first many other places...
We really need to understand that other team's closers aren't interested in being our middle relief guys.
Would a closer want to set up for the New York Yankees? Sure, they have a shot to win and make lots of money.
Would a closer want to come in earlier than the 8th for the New York Yankees? Hell no.
THEBOSS84
10-31-05, 09:18 AM
The way to go is offering Ryan 3 yr deal in the 6-7 mil range with a team option for a 4th year. If we are able to sign Ryan early in the Free agency period, it gives us a lot more time to be be creative with other middle relievers.
Don't forget, a recent trend among gm's is to draft a quality arm and have him play for the team the season he is drafted = offer Gordon arbitration and use the compensation picks to replace him well be a gorgeous situation.
The Yanks should stay away from J. Taveras - I can not see this guy being successful here.
Noone seems to be mentioning Eddie Guardado
Might I ask, what in the world does this mean?
Toodle-do is an english saying for goodbye, I can't find it but Tom must have been the poster .
stupidpunchline
10-31-05, 09:59 AM
The way to go is offering Ryan 3 yr deal in the 6-7 mil range with a team option for a 4th year. If we are able to sign Ryan early in the Free agency period, it gives us a lot more time to be be creative with other middle relievers.
Don't forget, a recent trend among gm's is to draft a quality arm and have him play for the team the season he is drafted = offer Gordon arbitration and use the compensation picks to replace him well be a gorgeous situation.
The Yanks should stay away from J. Taveras - I can not see this guy being successful here.
Noone seems to be mentioning Eddie Guardado
I would stay away from recent NL pitchers without a proven AL track record all together, Julian Tavarez included. As for Eddie Guardado, a 35 year old short-outing reliever with a recent history of injury doesn't appeal to the concept of getting younger and healthier.
Our best relief options may be waiver claims. Bobby Jenks and Derrick Turnbow are living proofs that diamonds in the rough do exist (and coincidentally, LAAAOCC waived both last Fall).
I would stay away from recent NL pitchers without a proven AL track record all together, Julian Tavarez included. As for Eddie Guardado, a 35 year old short-outing reliever with a recent history of injury doesn't appeal to the concept of getting younger and healthier.
Our best relief options may be waiver claims. Bobby Jenks and Derrick Turnbow are living proofs that diamonds in the rough do exist (and coincidentally, LAAAOCC waived both last Fall).
It just seems like going the big money route for relievers is very risky (karsay, foulke, etc )
That's why it's so hard for the gms to assemble a good bullpen. Cashman and Theo have done poor jobs the last 2 years
Hopefully having Stick back in the mix w/ kerrigan will help
THEBOSS84
10-31-05, 10:36 AM
I would stay away from recent NL pitchers without a proven AL track record all together, Julian Tavarez included. As for Eddie Guardado, a 35 year old short-outing reliever with a recent history of injury doesn't appeal to the concept of getting younger and healthier.
Our best relief options may be waiver claims. Bobby Jenks and Derrick Turnbow are living proofs that diamonds in the rough do exist (and coincidentally, LAAAOCC waived both last Fall).
I still can't understand how a 6'5 bohemoth who throws 100 mph with a 12 to 6 curve was put on waivers
Why couldn't we get a claim in on Jenks?!?
Prickly Pete
10-31-05, 10:38 AM
I still can't understand how a 6'5 bohemoth who throws 100 mph with a 12 to 6 curve was put on waivers
Why couldn't we get a claim in on Jenks?!?
He was an alcoholic who once set his pitching hand on fire. A lot of teams passed on him. The White Sox would've had waiver priority over the Yankees anyway.
He was an alcoholic who once set his pitching hand on fire. A lot of teams passed on him. The White Sox would've had waiver priority over the Yankees anyway.
I would absolutely not be surprised by either one of the following-
Bobby Jenks develops into the premier closer in the majors.
Bobby Jenks just hit his career zenith, and will be broke and in rehab in 7 years.
I do some work with minor league baseball teams, and on more than one occasion the league president of the minor league Jenks was playing in alerted the home club about Jenks and his behavior in advance of his team's arrival. He has not a bad, but a TERRIBLE history of behavior issues.
BronxByTheBay
10-31-05, 10:52 AM
He was an alcoholic who once set his pitching hand on fire.
Now THAT is the kind of guy you invite to every party you ever throw.
Snatch Catch
10-31-05, 12:07 PM
He was an alcoholic who once set his pitching hand on fire. A lot of teams passed on him. The White Sox would've had waiver priority over the Yankees anyway.
He also has a screw in his elbow.
Bobby Jenks will be out of baseball for one reason or another in a couple of years.
scull567
10-31-05, 12:09 PM
He also has a screw in his elbow.
Bobby Jenks will be out of baseball for one reason or another in a couple of years.
Why does he have a screw in his elbow?
jschoenberg
10-31-05, 12:14 PM
Yeah he was a bad apple, but seems to have come along. I also don't think a few good weeks or a couple good months makes you a star. Hey, look no further than Shane Spencer for an example. I miss those wonderful Spencer months of late '98.
TacoBomber
10-31-05, 12:18 PM
Why does he have a screw in his elbow?
Sounds like he might have one loose in his head as well.
IronCaballo4
10-31-05, 12:26 PM
He was an alcoholic who once set his pitching hand on fire. A lot of teams passed on him. The White Sox would've had waiver priority over the Yankees anyway.
We already had Kevin Brown as our team psycho anyway
Snatch Catch
10-31-05, 12:36 PM
Why does he have a screw in his elbow?
Essentially because his body couldn't support him throwing so hard:
http://www.barons.com/nm/publish/barons262.shtml
Early on he showed his great potential, even clocking in with a 103 mph pitch on the radar gun. Then the injury bug hit. During the 2003 and 2004 seasons, he went on the disabled list three times with stress reaction injuries to his elbow. Jenks put so much energy behind his pitches; it caused small fractures in his elbow from the pressure placed on it. He finally had surgery to repair the damage in 2004, and now has a permanent screw in his right arm.
TheTinoMobile
11-01-05, 04:06 AM
We already had Kevin Brown as our team psycho anyway
HAD.. Kevin brown.... Had.....we need a new one... I think B J Ryan can show some Irish Rage.... he reminds me of the guy from Super Punchout... what's his name...oh yeah.. Aran Ryan.. interesting
http://people.freenet.de/datastorer/aran_anim.gifhttp://www.ragincajuns.com/Baseball/Stories/B.J.%20Ryan_web.jpg
they even look alike......
GoTerpsGo
11-01-05, 11:10 AM
He was an alcoholic who once set his pitching hand on fire.
That gives new meaning to the term "fireballer". ;)
just-blaze
11-01-05, 11:10 AM
Farnsworth is inconsistent and I think a headcase. This guy is not that great in big situations as witnessed in the NLDS. I wouldn't touch him.
...as a closer he is. And Lidge wasnt too great in pressure situations in the NLDS as well.
In big city or pressure situations AS A CLOSER he is garbage. In Chicago, when they tried him for a closer he choked. We all saw what happened in the ALDS.
In Atlanta, he was money until the playoffs. In Detroit, he was money.(both situations were pressure-less situations) In Chicago, when they tried him as a middle reliever he was deadly.
In New York, he wouldnt sniff Mo's territory and would only be asked to get the ball to Mo.
I love the 70 innings pitched and 44 hits allowed+the K rate. I think he will be quality depth.
BTW. I have a feeling that Steinbrenner might fall in love with his fastball, after watching what Jenks did.
TalkYank
11-01-05, 01:11 PM
Any word of the status of BJ Ryan going to the Yankees?
yankeebot
11-01-05, 01:24 PM
Any word of the status of BJ Ryan going to the Yankees?Free agent negotiations cannot start until 2 weeks after the end of the WS.
The Yankee have to be mindful of two goals: 1) acquire more bullpen depth; 2) hope that one of the relievers acquired can succeed Mo when he retires. That goal could take more than one off season.
The Yankees need to engage in cluster acquisitions through trades, free agent signings, and promotions from the minors. That means Ryan, Dotel, Farnsworth, and maybe promoting Matt Smith from their farm system.
just-blaze
11-02-05, 12:15 AM
The Yankee have to be mindful of two goals: 1) acquire more bullpen depth; 2) hope that one of the relievers acquired can succeed Mo when he retires. That goal could take more than one off season.
The Yankees need to engage in cluster acquisitions through trades, free agent signings, and promotions from the minors. That means Ryan, Dotel, Farnsworth, and maybe promoting Matt Smith from their farm system.
You should be GM. Add Sturtze in there and that would be my ideal bullpen.
I do think it would take 15-20 million to get those relievers though.
English Yankee
11-02-05, 01:19 PM
Toodle-do is an english saying for goodbye, I can't find it but Tom must have been the poster .
Toodle-oo even. :)
StatenIslandYankee
11-02-05, 01:22 PM
The Yankee have to be mindful of two goals: 1) acquire more bullpen depth; 2) hope that one of the relievers acquired can succeed Mo when he retires. That goal could take more than one off season.
The Yankees need to engage in cluster acquisitions through trades, free agent signings, and promotions from the minors. That means Ryan, Dotel, Farnsworth, and maybe promoting Matt Smith from their farm system.
Sad part is nobody cant replace Mo
goin for 27
11-02-05, 01:42 PM
You should be GM. Add Sturtze in there and that would be my ideal bullpen.
I do think it would take 15-20 million to get those relievers though.
All the relievers in MLB, and you want to add Sturtze to make it an ideal bullpen?
Sad part is nobody cant replace Mo
Well someone or several someones are going to have to. That's why I suggested cluster acquisitions.
Mazz said he would do anything possible to convince Ryan to sign here.
Hopefully Ryan will take the recommendations of his good buddies Maz and Guidry into consideration.
Roberto Kelly
11-02-05, 08:06 PM
On the topic of bullpen depth, what's the deal w/ Bean, anyone know why he isn't on the front office's radar screen?
AMYanks
11-02-05, 08:14 PM
Mazz said he would do anything possible to convince Ryan to sign here.
Mazz + Guidry = :)
JavyVazquezIsSick
11-02-05, 08:50 PM
Mazz said he would do anything possible to convince Ryan to sign here.
When did he say this?
MattUNC2003
11-02-05, 09:03 PM
Sad part is nobody cant replace Mo
Let JB Cox give it a try when the time comes, then I believe you will be able to validly say that. I'm looking very forward to what he can do in pinstripes. With a ceiling comparable to that of Tom Gordon...you can probably do good things in your career.
I Love Wang
11-02-05, 09:09 PM
Let JB Cox give it a try when the time comes, then I believe you will be able to validly say that. I'm looking very forward to what he can do in pinstripes. With a ceiling comparable to that of Tom Gordon...you can probably do good things in your career.
Cox and Gordon are completely different pitchers.
When did he say this?
I would guess today. They reported it on a MSG Sportscenter update during the Knick game.
Also:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1103,0,4186553.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
[...]
Mazzilli's closer in Baltimore, B.J. Ryan, is one of the pitchers the Yankees are thinking about trying to sign as a setup man for Mariano Rivera, a role Tom Gordon filled the last two seasons. Mazzilli thought Ryan would consider coming to the Yankees.
"B.J. is definitely one of the quality pitchers out there," Mazzilli said. "He did a great job with the Orioles. We would love to have him. If there's anything I can do to try to persuade him to come, it would be great."
NYDCYankee
11-02-05, 09:50 PM
All the relievers in MLB, and you want to add Sturtze to make it an ideal bullpen?
Well someone has to come in with a 4 run lead to give up a 3 run bomb to make a save situation for Mo. Right?
Steph19
11-02-05, 09:51 PM
Well, if we don't get Ryan after signing both Guidry (probably) and Mazzilli, at least we'll know it wasn't because of the coaches.
ring403
11-02-05, 10:02 PM
"B.J. is definitely one of the quality pitchers out there," Mazzilli said. "He did a great job with the Orioles. We would love to have him. If there's anything I can do to try to persuade him to come, it would be great."
Good. Start earning your money, Maz.
AMYanks
11-02-05, 10:23 PM
If Mazzilli is the reason that Ryan comes here, then that will be well worth having him as a bench coach, no matter how similar to Joe he is.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1103,0,4186553.story?coll=ny-yankees-bigpix
[...]
Mazzilli, who went 129-140 with the Orioles before getting fired in July, wants to use his Baltimore ties to the Yankees' advantage, offering to call free-agent B.J. Ryan.
The Yankees may be better off using Guidry in that capacity. Guidry and Ryan are two of only a handful of players to make it to the big leagues out of the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, and Ryan is said to hold Guidry in high regard.
Enter_Sandman_42
11-02-05, 10:52 PM
get it done, Wang needs BJ in the late innings.
27IsNext
11-02-05, 10:52 PM
Gotta use them both, IMO. Let's get this done.
Dooley Womack
11-03-05, 12:48 AM
We still don't know how BJ Ryan really feels about Mazz. Will it help to put him in pinstripes or be a hindrance?
TheTinoMobile
11-03-05, 09:00 AM
get it done, Wang needs BJ in the late innings.
figuratively speaking...if the Small , Wang duo gets BJ, we'll be rock solid.... should especially make Johnson happy...it can potentially relieve the load that Johnson's been playing with, over the past season... you know, with his and other's inability to perform or rise to the occasion.
indianyanksfan
11-03-05, 10:14 AM
get ryan and bobby howry. scott eyer is a good lefty too.
that's 4 top guys right there.
put wright in the pen.
i dont know if millwood is on the radar because if he is then i'd use chacon out of the pen at least for now. move him into the rotation after moose leaves.
figuratively speaking...if the Small , Wang duo gets BJ, we'll be rock solid.... should especially make Johnson happy...it can potentially relieve the load that Johnson's been playing with, over the past season... you know, with his and other's inability to perform or rise to the occasion.
Freakin hilarious!! I laughed out loud for hours!
siddiqi
11-04-05, 05:57 PM
I'm not liking the idea of paying for BJ Ryan. I think a good bullpen can be built without paying a lot to FA. I think good examples of this can be shown by the Angels, the White Sox, and the Indians. I'm hoping that Cashman decides to make some small moves to bolster the pen instead of trying to sign guys like Ryan or Wagner.
38Special
11-04-05, 06:20 PM
I'm not liking the idea of paying for BJ Ryan. I think a good bullpen can be built without paying a lot to FA. I think good examples of this can be shown by the Angels, the White Sox, and the Indians. I'm hoping that Cashman decides to make some small moves to bolster the pen instead of trying to sign guys like Ryan or Wagner.
A good bullpen can be built if your upper minors arent garbage. Until we start producing some quality arms, we're gonna be using the FA market, and Ryan is the best name out there.
27IsNext
11-04-05, 06:36 PM
A good bullpen can be built if your upper minors arent garbage. Until we start producing some quality arms, we're gonna be using the FA market, and Ryan is the best name out there.
Henn, Beam, Cox, Schmidt, and maybe Hoover and Smith have the potential.
ICEBERG18
11-04-05, 09:08 PM
Guidry could make an immediate impact if he has any pull with B. J. Ryan, the free-agent reliever the Yankees seem certain to pursue. Ryan, who had 36 saves for the Baltimore Orioles last season, attended the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, where Guidry also played.
Ryan pitched there in 1997 and 1998, and Guidry spoke to him then. They have not been in contact since, but Guidry said he might help recruit his fellow Ragin' Cajun.
"He'd be a great addition to our pitching staff, and if I get a chance to talk to him, I'm sure I'll talk to him," Guidry said. "Maybe I'll give him a couple bowls of gumbo."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/05/sports/baseball/05yankees.html
AMYanks
11-04-05, 09:10 PM
Guidry could make an immediate impact if he has any pull with B. J. Ryan, the free-agent reliever the Yankees seem certain to pursue. Ryan, who had 36 saves for the Baltimore Orioles last season, attended the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, where Guidry also played.
Ryan pitched there in 1997 and 1998, and Guidry spoke to him then. They have not been in contact since, but Guidry said he might help recruit his fellow Ragin' Cajun.
"He'd be a great addition to our pitching staff, and if I get a chance to talk to him, I'm sure I'll talk to him," Guidry said. "Maybe I'll give him a couple bowls of gumbo."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/05/sports/baseball/05yankees.html
I can live with Guidry being the pitching coach (by title) over Kerrigan if it means getting Ryan.
Dooley Womack
11-05-05, 03:01 PM
Any further quotes by BJ, anyone?
DaddyYankee279
11-05-05, 03:04 PM
besides that he wants to play in the Bronx and is most likely that it will happen no!!
Dooley Womack
11-06-05, 03:27 AM
This is a HUGE test for Mr. Autonomy. BJ said he wants to be a Yank. The Yanks have already expressed interest in him. Guidry wants him. BJ likes Guidry. Guidry and BJ have a Lafayette LA. connection and Guidry said he'll do whatever it takes to bring him here.
The Yanks BETTER sign him.
ring403
11-06-05, 07:59 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/54021.htm
Since Mike Stanton exited after the 2002 season, the Yanks have tried and failed with the following lefty relievers: Chris Hammond, Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Alan Embree, Buddy Groom, C.J. Nitkowski, Jesse Orosco, Wayne Franklin and, oh yeah, Stanton II. Is it any wonder why they desire Ryan and why there is a strong industry feeling he will forgo closing to serve as Mariano Rivera's main set-up man? The Yanks have paid closer money to convince a reliever to set up (Steve Karsay's four-year, $22.25-million contract just expired). Ryan has an AL East pedigree and retires righties as well as lefties. The rumblings from Baltimore are that Oriole relievers, in particular, did not like former manager Lee Mazzilli, so the new Yankee bench coach might not be much of a recruiting tool.http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/362966p-309160c.html
Cashman also figures to talk to John Courtright, the agent for Orioles closer B.J. Ryan. The Yankes envision Ryan as a setup man for Mariano Rivera who could take over as closer when the 35-year-old Rivera retires, though Cashman knows Ryan could be a closer elsewhere. "He'd be a fit for anybody," Cashman said.
The Yankees may have two recruiting advantages, though - bench coach Lee Mazzilli gave Ryan the closer's job in 2005 as Baltimore's manager, and pitching coach Ron Guidry is a Louisiana native, like Ryan.
Sam2448
11-06-05, 10:17 AM
Good signs. They seem to be really interested in each other, hope they can work something out. BJ would just be a perfect fit.
surge511
11-06-05, 01:59 PM
i dont know if millwood is on the radar because if he is then i'd use chacon out of the pen at least for now. move him into the rotation after moose leaves.
With the way Chacon pitched last year, we do not need to be spending that kind of money on Millwood. We have 7 starters to choose from. Plus, one of Steven White, Tyler Clippard, or Phil Hughes will be able to take over for Moose when he is gone.
surge511
11-06-05, 02:01 PM
Henn, Beam, Cox, Schmidt, and maybe Hoover and Smith have the potential.
If you want to trust that group of basically nonames with a tie game in the playoffs, go ahead, but I am certainly not ready to do that. Cox has the potential to be very good, but Ryan is not just a setup man. He would be the next closer, so this signing has many implications to go with it. The future would have Cox setting up Ryan, and I like the idea of that.
surge511
11-06-05, 02:05 PM
I know Farnsworth is a headcase, but this is my perfect bullpen next year:
Mo
Ryan
Farnsworth
Sturtze
Matt Smith
Small
I think that if Farnsworth would only have to be pitching the 7th inning, he could be lights out like he was in Detroit. Sturtze, well rested, could be just as dominant. One more year of Sturtze, and Cox could take his role. If Farnsworth doesn't work out, Cox could move up another notch to the 7th in 2007. I think the signings of Ryan and Farnsworth would give us a great future to work with in the bullpen.
27IsNext
11-06-05, 03:25 PM
If you want to trust that group of basically nonames with a tie game in the playoffs, go ahead, but I am certainly not ready to do that. Cox has the potential to be very good, but Ryan is not just a setup man. He would be the next closer, so this signing has many implications to go with it. The future would have Cox setting up Ryan, and I like the idea of that.
The first four have the potential to be good to very good. Same for Hoover if he can stay healthy. Matt Smith may only have a future as a LOOGY, but that sure beats signing one.
27IsNext
11-06-05, 03:29 PM
Trade Sheffield to Cubs for RFer Matt Murton and LHRP Rich Hill.
My ideal bullpen:
Jaret Wright (6th starter/long reliever)
Matt Smith (LOOGY)
Rich Hill
Octavio Dotel
Bob Howry
B.J. Ryan
Mariano Rivera
Seven in the pen is a bit of a load, but it still leaves four spots for the bench. Remember, Matt Smith is purely a situational lefty in my scenario.
Galapagos
11-06-05, 04:51 PM
Colter Bean should definitely be in the big league bullpen next year.
dabomb2045
11-06-05, 04:52 PM
I know Farnsworth is a headcase, but this is my perfect bullpen next year:
Mo
Ryan
Farnsworth
Sturtze
Matt Smith
Small
I think that if Farnsworth would only have to be pitching the 7th inning, he could be lights out like he was in Detroit. Sturtze, well rested, could be just as dominant. One more year of Sturtze, and Cox could take his role. If Farnsworth doesn't work out, Cox could move up another notch to the 7th in 2007. I think the signings of Ryan and Farnsworth would give us a great future to work with in the bullpen.
Farnsworth scares me
Yankyfan
11-06-05, 07:56 PM
Farnsworth can be un hittable if used right in a deep pen.As long as you don't use him to be your steady closer theres no need to be afraid of him
27IsNext
11-06-05, 09:32 PM
Farnsworth can be un hittable if used right in a deep pen.As long as you don't use him to be your steady closer theres no need to be afraid of him
I'd rather go after relievers that have been consistant most of their career. Hence my choices of Dotel, Howry, and Ryan.
Yankee Bulldawg
11-07-05, 07:41 AM
we need a big reliever like BJ Ryan in the Yankees bullpen
just-blaze
11-07-05, 09:50 AM
I'd rather go after relievers that have been consistant most of their career. Hence my choices of Dotel, Howry, and Ryan.
Howry has been successful for half of his career. Dotel has been as inconsistant in the closer role as Farnsworth.
I would love Dotel and Ryan on the team.
I'd rather go after relievers that have been consistant most of their career. Hence my choices of Dotel, Howry, and Ryan.
I believe that Dotel is coming off TJ surgery, you can forget him, for 06 anyway.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 10:21 AM
I believe that Dotel is coming off TJ surgery, you can forget him, for 06 anyway.
Reports have him coming back just in time for Opening Day.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 10:25 AM
Howry has been successful for half of his career. Dotel has been as inconsistant in the closer role as Farnsworth.
I would love Dotel and Ryan on the team.
I'm looking at career ERAs for both pitchers. Is there a different way I should approach looking at relievers?
Colter Bean should definitely be in the big league bullpen next year.
At the ripe old age of 28 he better be ready. This guy isn't even a prospect anymore.
Reports have him coming back just in time for Opening Day.
Everone knows that most pitchers take a long time when they come back to get up to the level they were when they went down. Next year will be spring training for him.
I Love Wang
11-07-05, 11:30 AM
At the ripe old age of 28 he better be ready. This guy isn't even a prospect anymore.
He's been dominating AAA hitting for 3 years now. They've been wasting him down there.
At the ripe old age of 28 he better be ready. This guy isn't even a prospect anymore.
He's a young buck compared to some of the guys on our staff.
just-blaze
11-07-05, 10:35 PM
I'm looking at career ERAs for both pitchers. Is there a different way I should approach looking at relievers?
Well, Im a bit of a hypocrite in the fact that I look at K rates for relievers but dont think they matter that much for starters.
But Howry has had about 5 good years with 3 avg-to poor years vs. Farnsworth's 3 good years with 3 poor years. Mehhh.... Howry has had a slightly better career.
But right now I think Farnsworth is a better reliever. I do see why you like Howry though. That whip of his is great. I didnt realize that.
He's a young buck compared to some of the guys on our staff.
Yeah but he's a 28 year old rookie?!
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 10:58 PM
I completely expect the Yanks to sign Ryan and keep Mo and Gordon and stock the rest of the bullpen with relievers off the farm...mark it down
27IsNext
11-07-05, 11:02 PM
I completely expect the Yanks to sign Ryan and keep Mo and Gordon and stock the rest of the bullpen with relievers off the farm...mark it down
Gordon will not come back to be the 7th inning guy. The Yankees will let him walk, hopefully after offering him arbitration.
Wow, he's still interested? Even I get bored after 11 pages of thread!
I Love Wang
11-08-05, 12:27 AM
Yeah but he's a 28 year old rookie?!
Only because we haven't used him. He should have been in the majors in 2003.
ring403
11-08-05, 08:01 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/57013.htm
Interestingly, the Orioles have yet to set up a meeting with the agent of free agent B.J. Ryan here but have talked with him. The Yankees also covet the lefty reliever.
JeffWeaverFan
11-08-05, 08:16 AM
I know Farnsworth is a headcase, but this is my perfect bullpen next year:
Mo
Ryan
Farnsworth
Sturtze
Matt Smith
Small
I think that if Farnsworth would only have to be pitching the 7th inning, he could be lights out like he was in Detroit. Sturtze, well rested, could be just as dominant. One more year of Sturtze, and Cox could take his role. If Farnsworth doesn't work out, Cox could move up another notch to the 7th in 2007. I think the signings of Ryan and Farnsworth would give us a great future to work with in the bullpen.
Well, we need to put Wright in there somewhere and I'm not sold on Matt Smith as he has been horrendous so far in the summer league. I'd prefer Leiter to come back in the LOOGY role over Smith.
I completely expect the Yanks to sign Ryan and keep Mo and Gordon and stock the rest of the bullpen with relievers off the farm...mark it down
I will be extremely surprized to see Ryan and Gordon on this Yankee team. Maybe another team but not the Yankees. There is absolutely no way two closers in waiting will pitch for the same team.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 10:21 AM
I will be extremely surprized to see Ryan and Gordon on this Yankee team. Maybe another team but not the Yankees. There is absolutely no way two closers in waiting will pitch for the same team.
I take back my previous post and I actually agree with you.
I think we will sign Ryan, another b/c level reliever on the market, along with picking up Tanyon's option and then filling the rest of the bullpen with our minor leaguers - J Brent Cox certainly...
27IsNext
11-08-05, 10:49 AM
Only because we haven't used him. He should have been in the majors in 2003.
What's his velocity? I hear he relies on off-speed stuff and deception, something I'm very wary of.
He's been dominating AAA hitting for 3 years now. They've been wasting him down there.
Does he deserve a legitimate shot in the majors? No doubt. He certainly has earned it, and he very well could turn into Chad Bradford (a dependable reliever who has generally been a shade better than a specialist).
However, most every scout who has seen him pitch is convinced he will get hit hard the second and third time around the majors. He doesn't throw hard, and more importantly, doesn't have much movement on his fastball. As such, his strength is his delivery and excellent break on his slow off speed stuff. But it's not a 12-6 drop- it's more horizontal than vertical. He'll always get the righty batter to flail at a good pitch- but if he misses to a good hitter, it will get hammered. And they'll likely soon learn to lay off the stuff breaking outside.
Again, he deserves a shot. No doubt about it. And there's a chance he could immediately turn into an effective righty specialist. But he will never get out lefty hitters in the majors without a competent second pitch, and the Yanks shouldn't count on him for anything (which they aren't).
I suspect he pitches in the majors next year for another team.
surge511
11-08-05, 12:17 PM
I feel bad for Colter Bean - it seems like his career chances are being wasted. I hope he ends up at the back of the bullpen for someone who is actually willing to use him. Even Proctor is doubtful to make the team next year, never mind Bean getting a shot.
MattUNC2003
11-08-05, 03:09 PM
I take back my previous post and I actually agree with you.
I think we will sign Ryan, another b/c level reliever on the market, along with picking up Tanyon's option and then filling the rest of the bullpen with our minor leaguers - J Brent Cox certainly...
No way Cox starts the year on the ML roster, IMO. He's good, but he's not ready yet. I say that he gets a mid-season call up in absolute BEST case senario. I still think he gets called up in Sept. regardless...He'll be a regular in 2007.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 03:13 PM
No way Cox starts the year on the ML roster, IMO. He's good, but he's not ready yet. I say that he gets a mid-season call up in absolute BEST case senario. I still think he gets called up in Sept. regardless...He'll be a regular in 2007.
Street got started right away, Hansen, Joey Devine....why not Cox?
ring403
11-11-05, 07:39 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/364544p-310384c.html
Yanks GM Brian Cashman has had conversations with B.J. Ryan's agent, John Courtright, but today is the first day that financial figures can be discussed with all teams; previously, free agents were allowed to talk money only with their former clubs. Along those lines, the Yanks did have brief discussions with setup man Tom Gordon, but are not interested in granting Gordon's wish for a three-year contract. Gordon's agent, Rick Thurman, has had calls from a number of teams that are interested in signing Gordon to be a closer (including the Mets), and it's generally believed Gordon will end up taking one of those offers.
Cashman isn't expected to do any business today since he'll be flying home, but he's likely to make contact with Courtright in the near future.
Yankee Bulldawg
11-11-05, 07:50 AM
sweet looks like Cashman is defenitley going to open up discussions with B.J. Ryan's agent to discuss financial figures :)
Evil Empire
11-11-05, 07:51 AM
Gordon wants three years? How old is he? 38 or something?
Yankees1962
11-11-05, 07:56 AM
Gordon wants three years? How old is he? 38 or something?
It will be interesting to see which teams are going to give him and Hoffman three years. This free agent market is tight and some teams are going to overpay some of these guys and will probably get burnt doing so.
27IsNext
11-11-05, 02:00 PM
Have we offered Gordon arbitration yet?
Yankees1962
11-11-05, 02:22 PM
Have we offered Gordon arbitration yet?
Teams have to December 7th to offer their free agent players arbitration.
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