View Full Version : Matt Mantei chimes in: "I don't like the Yankees. I don't think anybody does."
HipHipJorge
02-20-05, 12:02 PM
Don't let a couple bad apples ruin the whole bunch. To say that the Sox weren't close is uninformed. As Tim McCarver said, "They lead the league in Man-hugs."
I really don't see those two as bad apples. Honestly, without sniping at you, I think I just wish the "idiots" who can't keep their mouths shut acted a little more like.....Wakefield & Foulke.
I mean do you really want Matt Mantei jumping into the fold and spouting his mouth off? He hasn't even pitched in a game for the red sox and he's weighing in on the yanks?
On another note, quoting Tim McCarver is not going to help you prove your point.
YankeeFan1
02-20-05, 12:04 PM
Did A-Rod single out Varitek or Nixon? A-Rod was not boasting. If they feel he was boasting, maybe it's because they feel a little inferior or defensive. It was an article done with the reporter doing a work out with him. What was he supposed to talk about, the weather?Alex's original comment was condescending to his fellow players and frankly unnecessary. He could have easily talked about his workout routine without referencing the dedication and parenting of his fellow players. That being said, the Red Sox players could have just rolled their eyes and not respond.
Read carefully, it's the contract that was hurting Texas, not Arod. The owner signed the contract and wasn't held at gunpoint to do so. The effect of that contract spread and helped many other players sign larger deals than they would have otherwise. How many other players would turn down getting paid more than they were worth? I noticed Varitek hired the same agent. He hardly gave the Sox a home team discount and it could be argued that they overpaid, especially in length of the contract.
Right, A-Rod's contract crippled the Rangers, not A-Rod himself.
Varitek also told Boras not to talk to any other teams until it was legally impossible for him to return to Boston. Is Varitek overpaid? Probably, but the Red Sox are big boys and can afford it.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 12:07 PM
He wanted to come here, so I don't hold that against him.
He's not a lightning rod for controversy solely because he is a Yankee (but it doesn't hurt), but rather because of the things he has done since becoming a Yankee.
As someone said on the radio, if he thought he was treated badly by the Fenway Faithful last year, wait for Round 2. He hasn't been back to Fenway since Game 6.
That's why I don't understand all the vitriol. The Red Sox fans were trashing him from Day One, so don't say it started because of something he did since becoming a Yankee.
Let them spew all their ridiculous venom, they've been doing it to Jeter for years and it hasn't hurt him. A-Rod handled it last year, he can do it again.
Game 6 ws at Yankee Stadium.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:08 PM
Here's what I take away from all the babbling going on in Red Sox camp towards the Yankees: they're scared.
Not of the Yankees, necessarily, but the upcoming season. Let's face it - unless they repeat they get thrown onto the same pile as Anaheim, AZ, and Florida. World Champions, yes. Incredible feat coming back from 0-3? Absolutely. A franchise as special as the Yanks? Nope.
Boston (the city) will not be content with simply "breaking the curse". THe fans, the front office - that ain't what it's about. Not anymore. It's now about proving they can seperate themselves from the rest of the baseball pack, like NY has done. The Yanks haven't won a WS since 2000, but all roads to a championship lead through the Bronx, and the Sox know it.
For all the talk about the pressure being on the Yanks this year (what else is new...annual rite of spring), the reality is it's Boston that has to win it all. They're no longer playing with house money. Time to prove last season really wasn't just a magic carpet ride.
As a Yankee fan, I couldn't be happier with how mouthy they've been.
Sidenote to Sox fans who keep chirping that it's not the Sox players thinking about this, but reporters who keep bringing it up: that's great and all, except just because a reporter brings up the Yanks, doesn't mean the player has to take the bait. Somehow the Yankees have thus far managed to ignore what must be some magic spell reporters cast on ballplayers to say incredibly dumb things about their opponents.
Did A-Rod single out Varitek or Nixon? A-Rod was not boasting. If they feel he was boasting, maybe it's because they feel a little inferior or defensive. It was an article done with the reporter doing a work out with him. What was he supposed to talk about, the weather?
I wasn't at the media session, but I'm sure the reporter asked a question about what A-Rod said and they responded by saying that they don't feel the need to talk about themselves that way.
Reverse the roles and tell me what would be said about Schilling if he claimed to be in better shape (suspend reality for this one point) than anyone else because he doesn't have to worry about who's bringing the kids to school. I don't have children, but I can imagine people are a little defensive when they feel someone is bad-mouthing their kid in any way (whether it's the case or not).
Game 6 was at Yankee Stadium.
I meant he hasn't been to Fenway since "the incident" in Game 6.
The Yankees better win this season's ALCS because I'm not sure if I'm up to another off season of the Red Sox smack talking. I rather the usual Yankee tradition of winning with grace and shutting the hell up.
If they lose, I think it might get worse. They've lost the lovable loser mantle and are now expected to win. Given their mix of egos over there, I expect fireworks at the first signs of any prolonged adversity. wells V. Shilling
I read that Shilling is trying to kick his tobacco habit and is having a hard time. Maybe that is accounting for some of his cattiness.
Somebody toss him a nicotine patch- PLEASE
HipHipJorge
02-20-05, 12:12 PM
Here's what I take away from all the babbling going on in Red Sox camp towards the Yankees: they're scared.
Not of the Yankees, necessarily, but the upcoming season. Let's face it - unless they repeat they get thrown onto the same pile as Anaheim, AZ, and Florida. World Champions, yes. Incredible feat coming back from 0-3? Absolutely. A franchise as special as the Yanks? Nope.
Boston (the city) will not be content with simply "breaking the curse". THe fans, the front office - that ain't what it's about. Not anymore. It's now about proving they can seperate themselves from the rest of the baseball pack, like NY has done. The Yanks haven't won a WS since 2000, but all roads to a championship lead through the Bronx, and the Sox know it.
For all the talk about the pressure being on the Yanks this year (what else is new...annual rite of spring), the reality is it's Boston that has to win it all. They're no longer playing with house money. Time to prove last season really wasn't just a magic carpet ride.
As a Yankee fan, I couldn't be happier with how mouthy they've been.
Sidenote to Sox fans who keep chirping that it's not the Sox players thinking about this, but reporters who keep bringing it up: that's great and all, except just because a reporter brings up the Yanks, doesn't mean the player has to take the bait. Somehow the Yankees have thus far managed to ignore what must be some magic spell reporters cast on ballplayers to say incredibly dumb things about their opponents.
Thank You for summing it up so nicely! Do you mind if I use this excerpt as my sig?
[QUOTE=BronxByTheBay]Let's face it - unless they repeat they get thrown onto the same pile as Anaheim, AZ, and Florida. World Champions, yes. Incredible feat coming back from 0-3? Absolutely. A franchise as special as the Yanks? Nope.[QUOTE]
On another note, quoting Tim McCarver is not going to help you prove your point.
Talk about committing posting suicide. :lol:
The focus should be on the quote, not the person, though.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 12:14 PM
I didn't make that remark, sox jedi 14 did. Honest mistake. :)
Steinbrenner chased the Red Sox bus and yelled at them following Game 7 in 2003. Yogi said the Sox have never beaten the Yankees, so no sweat, before the 1999 ALCS.
A-Rod isn't an innocent bystander. He made remarks about Schilling and then later tooted his own horn. He's done things the Sox don't respect, so they mention it.
A-Rod responded to Schilling's attack. Big difference. Cashman responded to Well's comments. Big difference. The attacks were initiated by the Red Sox. He's done things the Red Sox don't respect? Wow! I didn't realize the Red Sox were such pillars of respectability.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 12:17 PM
Someone brought up a good question. Why does Alex get all the hate, but not Manny? People don't just hate him in Boston either (Of course moving to the Yankees surely didn't help that). Many dislike Alex both on and off the field, but goofy manny is ignored. I wonder if that has anything to do with Alex's personality?
IIRC, the "old", pre-2004 Manny -- who wasn't the outwardly happy-go-lucky guy he is now -- wasn't exactly beloved by fans, teammates or sportswriters. No one was crying when he was put on irrevocable waivers...in order to help set up the trade for A-Rod.
Some of the misinterpretations of Manny's personality had to do with a language barrier -- he wasn't being standoffish, he just wasn't comfortable speaking English.
And saying he wanted to play for the Yankees someday probably didn't help either.
I wasn't at the media session, but I'm sure the reporter asked a question about what A-Rod said and they responded by saying that they don't feel the need to talk about themselves that way.
Reverse the roles and tell me what would be said about Schilling if he claimed to be in better shape (suspend reality for this one point) than anyone else because he doesn't have to worry about who's bringing the kids to school. I don't have children, but I can imagine people are a little defensive when they feel someone is bad-mouthing their kid in any way (whether it's the case or not).
I agree Arods original atatement was ill advised. HIs workout regimen as described in the article was amazing and to be honest, I doubt that many are training with that intensity. Still he would have been better off not comparing his routine to that of others.
That said, why repond in kind? If you view someones behavior as classless, why would you want to go out and do the same thing becoming classless yourself?
PippyPinstripes
02-20-05, 12:18 PM
Somebody toss him a nicotine patch- PLEASE
Or a pack of menthols.
He's done things the Red Sox don't respect? Wow! I didn't realize the Red Sox were such pillars of respectability.
It's one thing to talk in the media before the season. It's a whole nother thing to shout obscenities at the opposing bench, or start a brawl or commit what the Sox feel is a "bush league" play.
If the reason Yankee fans hate the Sox is because they talk, that's fine. To each his own. But to lump their comments with A-Rod's actions on the field is not right, IMO. Completley different. You don't see any Yankees talking out about how the Sox act, do it can't be a big deal to them.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:21 PM
Thank You for summing it up so nicely! Do you mind if I use this excerpt as my sig?
[QUOTE=BronxByTheBay]Let's face it - unless they repeat they get thrown onto the same pile as Anaheim, AZ, and Florida. World Champions, yes. Incredible feat coming back from 0-3? Absolutely. A franchise as special as the Yanks? Nope.[QUOTE]
Are there royalties involved? Can I at least call home and tell my parents one of my lines made someone's sig? They're gonna be so proud...
(Sigh...welcome to the age of lowered expectations...)
IIRC, the "old", pre-2004 Manny -- who wasn't the outwardly happy-go-lucky guy he is now -- wasn't exactly beloved by fans, teammates or sportswriters. No one was crying when he was put on irrevocable waivers...in order to help set up the trade for A-Rod.
Some of the misinterpretations of Manny's personality had to do with a language barrier -- he wasn't being standoffish, he just wasn't comfortable speaking English.
To give you a Sox fan perspective, the fans loved Manny before 2004. It was mainly the media who gave him hell. I can't remember him being booed. However, the love for Manny definately went up in 2004, because he became more personable. There were more Manny jerseys in the stands than people thought, because the media targeted him because he wouldn't talk to them.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:24 PM
It's a whole nother thing to shout obscenities at the opposing bench,
Yeah, we all know shouting obscenities at the opposing players bench is a trait common to A-Rod and A-Rod alone.
When someone like Lou Pinella, for example, is screaming, somehow I don't think he's trying to ask Torre or Stott if they know what time it is.
There's no crying in baseball, my friend.
Yeah, we all know shouting obscenities at the opposing players bench is a trait common to A-Rod and A-Rod alone.
When someone like Lou Pinella, for example, is screaming, somehow I don't think he's trying to ask Torre or Stott if they know what time it is.
There's no crying in baseball, my friend.
No one's crying. People don't understand why the Sox and their fans don't like A-Rod and I gave you a good example.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 12:27 PM
It's one thing to talk in the media before the season. It's a whole nother thing to shout obscenities at the opposing bench, or start a brawl or commit what the Sox feel is a "bush league" play.
If the reason Yankee fans hate the Sox is because they talk, that's fine. To each his own. But to lump their comments with A-Rod's actions on the field is not right, IMO. Completley different. You don't see any Yankees talking out about how the Sox act, do it can't be a big deal to them.
Pretty much no one was on the opposing bench when A-Rod shouted toward it. The game was over and nearly everyone had already headed toward the showers.
We've had the argument ad nauseum over who started the fight. The undeniable fact is that your team captain threw the first punch (and grabbed A-Rod's package...nice move there). In most peoples' books, he who threw the first punch started the fight.
Even Arroyo just said he understood what A-Rod did was in the heat of the moment.
And the reason the Yankees are staying quiet in response to the barrage from the Red Sox is that they have professionalism and class. It's as simple as that.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:30 PM
No one's crying. People don't understand why the Sox and their fans don't like A-Rod and I gave you a good example.
Yelling at the other bench? You can't be serious. So you're telling me that this team that can't shut up for two seconds about the Yanks during the off season doesn't contain ONE guy who mouths off to opposing teams during the season?
Pretty much no one was on the opposing bench when A-Rod shouted toward it. The game was over and nearly everyone had already headed toward the showers.
But he still shouted it. He would be better off in the minds of fans and players had he not done that.
We've had the argument ad nauseum over who started the fight. The undeniable fact is that your team captain threw the first punch (and grabbed A-Rod's package...nice move there). In most peoples' books, he who threw the first punch started the fight.
I've seen the footage, millions of times. A-Rod told Tek to "come on" after (again) dropping a few expletives. A-Rod wanted it and he got it.
Even Arroyo just said he understood what A-Rod did was in the heat of the moment.
Then Varitek was in the heat of the moment, too.
Yelling at the other bench? You can't be serious. So you're telling me that this team that can't shut up for two seconds about the Yanks during the off season doesn't contain ONE guy who mouths off to opposing teams during the season?
Not just that moment. Add that incident with the fight and the slap and his comments regarding "beating up" Schilling and things have gotten crazy. Can you blame them? What if Ortiz had done all those things. Would Yankee fans respect Ortiz after that? You tell me.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:35 PM
I've seen the footage, millions of times. A-Rod told Tek to "come on" after (again) dropping a few expletives.
A-Rod gets plunked by a skinny pitcher, but decides to turn to the one guy wearing protective gear on the field and tell him to "come on"? Tek said nothing?
Either A-Rod's dumber than we were led to believe or a lot tougher ;)
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 12:36 PM
I've seen the footage, millions of times. A-Rod told Tek to "come on" after (again) dropping a few expletives. A-Rod wanted it and he got it.
Sticks and stones...
NDBoston
02-20-05, 12:36 PM
Why don't you take a cue from your captain and... wait, youre captain is a cowardly loser, never mind.
Seriously, this is the unanimous favorite for worst post of the week, and that says a lot since NDBoston chimed in a few times in the Nixon/A-Rod thread.
You don't want Yankee fans to be angry that multiple no-name and platoon player Red Sox are talking sh*t about our team, even though Red Sox fans had their panties up in a bunch when A-Rod responded to Schilling.
I'd pay more attention to the $80M you passed out this offseason to a 90 OPS+ shortstop and a catcher who only hits in one park. This is a serious concern for the Red Sox.
Work on your grammatical errors and sentence structure.
A-Rod gets plunked by a skinny pitcher, but decides to turn to the one guy wearing protective gear on the field and tell him to "come on"? Tek said nothing?
Either A-Rod's dumber than we were led to believe or a lot tougher ;)
Sure, Varitek said something to him. Perhaps "Just get to first (expletive)" or "Hurry the (expletive) up." Remember, A-Rod was taking his sweet time taking off his elbow protecter and staring down Bronson. Tek stood up for his (smaller) teammate. What happened after that is documented.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:40 PM
Not just that moment. Add that incident with the fight and the slap and his comments regarding "beating up" Schilling and things have gotten crazy. Can you blame them? What if Ortiz had done all those things. Would Yankee fans respect Ortiz after that? You tell me.
Okay, I'm going to express the same sentiment to you that a previous poster did: it's not universally accepted that A-Rod initiated the fight. Considering the circumstances surrounding the fight (brutal loss the night before, another brutal loss shaping up that day, etc) it's almost a little silly at this point to blame A-Rod for initiating that.
On the slap, I've been on record as saying it was a dumb and embarressing play, but I don't assume A-Rod did it specifically because we were playing the Red Sox.
As for the rest, it's mostly been Schilling opening his yap about A-Rod (and the Yanks for that matter). A-Rod's comments about "beating" Schilling up were within context of Schilling throwing shots in his direction all off season.
This "fued" the Red Sox have with A-Rod is a self-fulfiling prophesy, and quite frankly it reeks of insecurity over not getting him last off-season.
Sticks and stones...
Maybe, but let's not pretend like A-Rod was trotting down to first and was mauled from behind by a bat carrying Varitek. Each party was in the wrong, no one was innocent.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 12:42 PM
Not just that moment. Add that incident with the fight and the slap and his comments regarding "beating up" Schilling and things have gotten crazy. Can you blame them? What if Ortiz had done all those things. Would Yankee fans respect Ortiz after that? You tell me.
Ortiz is an interesting name to bring up. Here's a guy who bitches whenever he's called out on strikes, threw a bag of bats at an ump, and put cups on his ears earlier in the July 1st game (the same one where A-Rod yelled from the bench once it was over) to taunt Posada.
And I like the guy. He's fun to watch play (except against the Yankees). He's an incredible hitter, and he seems to have a lot of fun playing the game. (Plus, if you saw what he wore to the All-Star Game Media Day...loved it.)
Then again, I've always liked Pedro too so perhaps it's just me.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:43 PM
It's not just about the money. It's the way he's acted since signing that contract. He's apparently made more enemies than friends, and not just on the Sox, it's the Rangers and (for some reason) the Tigers.
But, yes, Manny's contract is huge, but not close to A-Rod's contract. Manny's contract didn't cripple a franchise. He saddled up and delievered a World Series MVP with his contract. Granted, the Sox may still be wanting to unload his contract, but they aren't up against a wall like Texas was.
different teams, Manny's would have done that to Texas.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:45 PM
Sure, Varitek said something to him. Perhaps "Just get to first (expletive)" or "Hurry the (expletive) up."
Riiiight. I'm sure Tek was just trying to speed the game up. Benefit of the doubt for your own team is wonderful, ain't it?
What happened after that is documented.
It sure is - Tek takes his glove and smooshes A-Rod's face...I won't even dignify it by calling it a "punch".
Look, I'm not interested in replaying the fight - been there, done that. The point I was making, that you're kinda helping me make, is that it's not universally accepted that A-Rod was responsible for the brawl. Using it as a point of reference as "proof" doesn't add anything.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:46 PM
All I can say to this is, that's why the Yankees are the Yankees and the Red Sox are the Red Sox. That's what makes the rivalry so intense, because both sides do their own thing.
Tek's comments were no worse than A-Rod's original comment about working out, except for maybe everyone knew who Tek was talking about.
I can see why some people feel the silence out of the Yankees camp regarding the A-Rod digs is telling. You'd expect a team leader to help out his teammate in a time like this.
The quotes that opened the off-season activity were made by Curt Schilling right after the WS ended. He said it in print and I heard them live on WFAN. I don't excuse A-Rod's sniping back, and as a side note, I am extremely happy with A-Rod for taking the high road today, but it was Schillling who made the initial salvo.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 12:46 PM
Posada didn't take his mask off either when he got into that fight with the guy from the D-Rays.
And I'm sorry, but if you anyone took any sort of offense to Varitek's "I don't care about anybody else's workout routine" or Arroyo's "I understand why he made the play" comments you're digging, reaching, fishing, whatever you want to call it for some new reason to call the Sox classless, which is what you people take an unbelievable amount of joy in doing. So far the only players on the Red Sox who have said anything even remotely offensive about A-Rod or the Yankees have been Schilling, Wells, Mantei and Nixon.
A-Rod and Sheffield have both tossed some barbs at the Sox and I'm pretty sure I read a Torre quote responding to Wells earlier this week.
Soooo I believe that's 4 Red Sox and 3 Yankees. On the class scoreboard you lead 3-4.
I also like how the comments of 4 players represents the entire team, region, and fanbase but when stevethesoxfan dropped his list of questionable yankee actions/decisions/quotes they were all deemed irrelevant and brushed off.
There's a difference between bias and blinders.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 12:46 PM
It's one thing to talk in the media before the season. It's a whole nother thing to shout obscenities at the opposing bench, or start a brawl or commit what the Sox feel is a "bush league" play.
If the reason Yankee fans hate the Sox is because they talk, that's fine. To each his own. But to lump their comments with A-Rod's actions on the field is not right, IMO. Completley different. You don't see any Yankees talking out about how the Sox act, do it can't be a big deal to them.
Who is doing the talking? The venom from the Red Sox and their fans started long before A-Rod yelled AFTER a game. He was not talking to the media and probably didn't realize the camera was on him. What fight did A-rod start? Who threw the pitch that hit him? Who threw the first punch? If the Sox feel that it was a "bush play" that's their problem. A lot of things that they do are bush too.
The Yankees don't feel the need to talk, like the Red Sox do.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 12:46 PM
Maybe, but let's not pretend like A-Rod was trotting down to first and was mauled from behind by a bat carrying Varitek. Each party was in the wrong, no one was innocent.
But Varitek is the one who elevated it from mere words to a fight.
That's fact.
And A-Rod isn't exactly the first guy to ever have stared down or had words with a pitcher.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:47 PM
All I can say to this is, that's why the Yankees are the Yankees and the Red Sox are the Red Sox. That's what makes the rivalry so intense, because both sides do their own thing.
Tek's comments were no worse than A-Rod's original comment about working out, except for maybe everyone knew who Tek was talking about.
I can see why some people feel the silence out of the Yankees camp regarding the A-Rod digs is telling. You'd expect a team leader to help out his teammate in a time like this.
You mean you would expect the teammates to sink down in the mud with the gutter snipe?
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:48 PM
-
-The Rangers couldn't make moves with A-Rod's contract, and now that he's gone, they are better.
Nor would Texas be able to make moves if they had Manny on the books.
Riiiight. I'm sure Tek was just trying to speed the game up. Benefit of the doubt for your own team is wonderful, ain't it?
I gave you what I thout Tek might have said that got under A-Rod's skin. What do you think he said? "I love your speed stick commercial"?
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:49 PM
There's a difference between bias and blinders.
There certainly is:
"I can't get into somebody else’s brain," Rodriguez said. "The only thing I can say is that they're the world champs and I have the utter most respect for all the guys, one through 25. We have a great challenge ahead of us."
http://www.yesnetwork.com/yankees/news.asp?news_id=862
When you can find someone on the Sox making the same declaration in response to all this, I'd love to see it.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:49 PM
This may be a foreign concept to the Red Sox, but why don't they try this:
The next time a Yankee, or anyone else for that matter, says something about you or your team........DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. KEEP YOUR MOUTHS CLOSED AND GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS.
Novel concept, I'm sure.
Would never happen, they need to educate us dumb, uneducated New Yorkers.
the_coach
02-20-05, 12:50 PM
Is Matt Mantei on the Red Sox now?
/haven't read the thread yet...
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:51 PM
I gave you what I thout Tek might have said that got under A-Rod's skin. What do you think he said? "I love your speed stick commercial"?
I dunno...perhaps, maaaybe, something that might lead to another player responding with "come on". Possible? Maybe?
But Varitek is the one who elevated it from mere words to a fight.
That's fact.
And A-Rod isn't exactly the first guy to ever have stared down or had words with a pitcher.
Perhaps A-Rod picked the wrong day to stare down someone.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:51 PM
Don't let a couple bad apples ruin the whole bunch. To say that the Sox weren't close is uninformed. As Tim McCarver said, "They lead the league in Man-hugs."
Let's assume that A-Rod and Jeter don't get along. I don't buy it, but let's say they don't. A few bad apples in Boston doesn't ruin it, but a few bad apples in New York means the Yankees don't get along? Riiiighht.
You mean you would expect the teammates to sink down in the mud with the gutter snipe?
Maybe Jeter could have said "A-Rod doesn't need to prove anything. He's a Yankee and we don't care what the Red Sox said about him. We'll take on our team any day of the week." That's neither bashing the Sox nor leaving your teammate hanging.
Nor would Texas be able to make moves if they had Manny on the books.
They would be able to make $5 M more worth of moves, but I get your point. :)
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:54 PM
But he still shouted it. He would be better off in the minds of fans and players had he not done that.
I've seen the footage, millions of times. A-Rod told Tek to "come on" after (again) dropping a few expletives. A-Rod wanted it and he got it.
Then Varitek was in the heat of the moment, too.
And how about Varitek saying BEFORE A-Rod's "come on" to A-Rod "we don't hit .260 hitters". That isn't meant to aggitate A-Rod?
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 12:55 PM
And how about Varitek saying BEFORE A-Rod's "come on" to A-Rod "we don't hit .260 hitters". That isn't meant to aggitate A-Rod?
I'm sure he wasn't saying it to be polite and cordial.
Let's assume that A-Rod and Jeter don't get along. I don't buy it, but let's say they don't. A few bad apples in Boston doesn't ruin it, but a few bad apples in New York means the Yankees don't get along? Riiiighht.
My quote was a response to someone saying the Red Sox weren't close because Lowe and Nomar weren't close with the rest of the team. There wasn't a case in 2004 in the Red Sox clubhouse where two teammates had a public falling out, or at least none that I can recall. A-Rod and Jeter's mini-fued was in a magazine. They were freinds before but weren't as close as they before the article came out.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 12:57 PM
Maybe Jeter could have said "A-Rod doesn't need to prove anything. He's a Yankee and we don't care what the Red Sox said about him. We'll take on our team any day of the week." That's neither bashing the Sox nor leaving your teammate hanging.
I think Jeter handled it as he should have, by staying out of it. Class.
Frank the Tank
02-20-05, 12:57 PM
The only way you can see all of this is that when you lose for 86 years straight, a year of winning doesn't really teach you how to be graceful. The Red Sox did what they had to and won the WS, but it is still a team that does not know how to be good winners. They are showing this day after day this year. I really can't remember any WS winner of the last decade showing this much unprofessionalism. I really hope someone in that clubhouse teaches this team how to act. When the Yanks were winners 4 out of 5, none of this happened. The Red Sox truely sound like they lost last year and can't accept. Fascinating...
sharoncass
02-20-05, 12:57 PM
Yelling at the other bench? You can't be serious. So you're telling me that this team that can't shut up for two seconds about the Yanks during the off season doesn't contain ONE guy who mouths off to opposing teams during the season?
I still haven't seen a decent reason for all the hatred directed at A-Rod except the fact that he's a Yankee.
And how about Varitek saying BEFORE A-Rod's "come on" to A-Rod "we don't hit .260 hitters". That isn't meant to aggitate A-Rod?
Apparently, that's an urban myth. People can believe it if they want to, but he denies it, saying he isn't smart enough to think of something like that on a whim.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 12:59 PM
[QUOTE=GoRocket]And how about Varitek saying BEFORE A-Rod's "come on" to A-Rod "we don't hit .260 hitters". That isn't meant to aggitate A-Rod?[/QUOTE
Doesn't Varitek know that using BA is the worst means to judge a hitter???
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 12:59 PM
He never said that.....
Who says "Come on mothereffer" to a guy in a mask and armor though? Everybody hates on Tek for keeping his gear on but have you guys stopped to think about the fact that A-Rod waved him over while he was wearing all that stuff? Who challenges a guy with a mask and body armor to a fight anyway?
I still haven't seen a decent reason for all the hatred directed at A-Rod except the fact that he's a Yankee.
The Big Four of A-Rod (cursing, fight, slap, comments) is enough to make a fanbase dislike him. And yes, being a Yankee has something to do with it, but by no means is that the only reason.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:00 PM
Personally, I think it's better to have someone's back than leave them hanging. Especially when the captian and player in question reportedly aren't as good of friends as they once were.
Again, that's where the Sox and Yanks differ. The Sox are close, and play loose, (and almost played too loose last year). The Yankees are professionals who act business-like. Nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks, I supppose.
This is what I was referring to. You say this is where the Yank and Sox differ. The Sox are close, it seemed to imply the Yanks were not.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 01:00 PM
He never said that.....
Who says "Come on mothereffer" to a guy in a mask and armor though? Everybody hates on Tek for keeping his gear on but have you guys stopped to think about the fact that A-Rod waved him over while he was wearing all that stuff? Who challenges a guy with a mask and body armor to a fight anyway?
I'm pretty sure A-Rod thought Tek was going to drop the mask. I don't think he was stupid enough to get into a fight with someone who he thought wasn't going to take it off.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:00 PM
Sure, Varitek said something to him. Perhaps "Just get to first (expletive)" or "Hurry the (expletive) up." Remember, A-Rod was taking his sweet time taking off his elbow protecter and staring down Bronson. Tek stood up for his (smaller) teammate. What happened after that is documented.
The thing is, you don't know what Varitek said to A-Rod, you're speculating. Arroyo was big enough to throw at A-Rod, but not big enough to back it up?
[QUOTE=MiamiKat] (and grabbed A-Rod's package...nice move there).
WOW, I wasn't aware of that. This sheds a lot of light on the situation. What would Freud say??????
THe whole Sox team is struggling with issues of latent homosexuality.( that doesn't make them bad people... some of my best friends.....)
NOW I UNDERSTAND
Having to supress their tabooed desires they live in a world tortured longing. It WAS predmeditated. Varitek knew that the only way he would be able to get close to the object of his lust was to provoke a fight. At least he
had the common sense to make the encounter a safe one- he kept his mask on. Unable to resist, he reached out for a taste of forbidden fruit.
The others on the team, in a fit of jealousy have been ragging on Arod ever since
Is it true Ru Paul is singing the anthem opening day at fenway?
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:01 PM
He never said that.....
Who says "Come on mothereffer" to a guy in a mask and armor though? Everybody hates on Tek for keeping his gear on but have you guys stopped to think about the fact that A-Rod waved him over while he was wearing all that stuff? Who challenges a guy with a mask and body armor to a fight anyway?
Someone tougher than the guy who needs to wear that stuff in a fight?
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=GoRocket]And how about Varitek saying BEFORE A-Rod's "come on" to A-Rod "we don't hit .260 hitters". That isn't meant to aggitate A-Rod?[/QUOTE
Doesn't Varitek know that using BA is the worst means to judge a hitter???
I'm sure Bill James ripped him a new one after the game.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 01:02 PM
Perhaps A-Rod picked the wrong day to stare down someone.
Either that or the fight was planned in advance, as some have suggested.
Getting back somewhat on topic, we now have A-Rod's response to the Red Sox, and it was terrific, IMO.
http://www.yesnetwork.com/yankees/news.asp?news_id=862
Therein lies the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox. Professionalism. Class. And good PR people.
A-Rod is probably very unhappy with Nixon & the other Red Sox players...and might even be disappointed too with Jeter's & Posada's comments. (Just conjecture there on my part.) BUT to the media he focused on the positive, put everything into perspective and said he's looking forward to playing baseball.
Now if any more Red Sox players speak out, they'll look doubly foolish.
GoBernie
02-20-05, 01:02 PM
OK, that quote is just sad and hilarious at the same time.
[school girl]It's like, I went up to him and he saw right. Through. Me. He didn't even remember me! He tossed me a hello and went back to chatting with the bitch from Jenny's homeroom.
Did our relationship mean nothing to him?![/school girl]
Admittedly I'm not through this thread yet, but this cracked me up the most so far. :lol:
The thing is, you don't know what Varitek said to A-Rod, you're speculating. Arroyo was big enough to throw at A-Rod, but not big enough to back it up?
Didn't Arroyo lead the league in hit batsmen? When, outside of Nolan Ryan using Robin Ventura as his own punching bag, has a pitcher and batter gone at it?
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:04 PM
I'm pretty sure A-Rod thought Tek was going to drop the mask. I don't think he was stupid enough to get into a fight with someone who he thought wasn't going to take it off.
I'm still waiting for one, ANY yankee fan to tell me when would have been a good time for tek to take his mask off.
And I have a feeling I'll still be waiting.
And for the record I have no idea what Tek said, neither do any of you, but we do know that A-Rod said F-You about 9-10 times and then said "Come on mothereffer" while waving Tek towards him, all of this while Tek still had his mask on....since there was really no convenient time to take it off.
What's funny is that you guys all hate Varitek for this even though you have no idea what he said, but you can't understand why we hate A-Rod even though the whole world knows exactly what he said.
Bias/Blinders....c'mon now.
yanksrule69
02-20-05, 01:05 PM
The Big Four of A-Rod (cursing, fight, slap, comments) is enough to make a fanbase dislike him. And yes, being a Yankee has something to do with it, but by no means is that the only reason.
You honestly believe A-Rod would be getting all this crap if he were, let's say, still a Ranger? That's BS.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 01:06 PM
He never said that.....
Who says "Come on mothereffer" to a guy in a mask and armor though? Everybody hates on Tek for keeping his gear on but have you guys stopped to think about the fact that A-Rod waved him over while he was wearing all that stuff? Who challenges a guy with a mask and body armor to a fight anyway?
To answer your last question, I'm guessing a guy who's pissed off at being hit by a pitch and by being taunted by the catcher. (Varitek might not have said the ".260 hitter" line, but we know he was saying something to A-Rod.)
And as we all learned in kindergarten, just because someone taunts you -- EDIT: or instigates a fight -- doesn't mean you should hit them.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 01:07 PM
I'm still waiting for one, ANY yankee fan to tell me when would have been a good time for tek to take his mask off.
And I have a feeling I'll still be waiting.
And for the record I have no idea what Tek said, neither do any of you, but we do know that A-Rod said F-You about 9-10 times and then said "Come on mothereffer" while waving Tek towards him, all of this while Tek still had his mask on....since there was really no convenient time to take it off.
What's funny is that you guys all hate Varitek for this even though you have no idea what he said, but you can't understand why we hate A-Rod even though the whole world knows exactly what he said.
Bias/Blinders....c'mon now.
He didn't have to put his hands in A-Rod's face and he didn't have to grab his balls. Seems to me that even though Alex was talking a good game, Tek didn't have to respond. There is no rule that says if you don't retaliate to someone jawing at you, you'll be shot at dawn.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:07 PM
Therein lies the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox. Professionalism. Class. And good PR people.
And steroids.....and wall-punching.....and glove-slapping.....and calling teams "walking disasters"....and so forth.....
There is no difference.
You honestly believe A-Rod would be getting all this crap if he were, let's say, still a Ranger? That's BS.
Did you see the second part of my post that you quoted? It said: "being a Yankee has something to do with it".
You think they would look the other way becasue he was a Ranger had he done the same thing? That's hard to believe.
yanksrule69
02-20-05, 01:07 PM
http://www.yesnetwork.com/yankees/news.asp?news_id=862
That article should end this discussion.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:07 PM
I'm still waiting for one, ANY yankee fan to tell me when would have been a good time for tek to take his mask off.
And I have a feeling I'll still be waiting.
And for the record I have no idea what Tek said, neither do any of you, but we do know that A-Rod said F-You about 9-10 times and then said "Come on mothereffer" while waving Tek towards him, all of this while Tek still had his mask on....since there was really no convenient time to take it off.
What's funny is that you guys all hate Varitek for this even though you have no idea what he said, but you can't understand why we hate A-Rod even though the whole world knows exactly what he said.
Bias/Blinders....c'mon now.
Enough of the sanctimonious bias/blinders soap box crap as if you are sitting there with 100% objectivity. I guess the binders thing is if you disagree with anything Red Sox. I admit that I am a biased Yankee fan, just like you are a biased Red Sox fan. I guess we should say, yes Varitek is an angel, he said/did nothing and A-Rod instigated it all. (insert rolls eye smiley). This is a Yankee site, I would expect on a Sox site there would be a Sox bias.
And as we all learned in kindergarten, just because someone taunts you doesn't mean you should hit them.
But you're also not the only to person to blame if someone is in your face taunting you and you, in turn, hit them.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:09 PM
The only way you can see all of this is that when you lose for 86 years straight, a year of winning doesn't really teach you how to be graceful. The Red Sox did what they had to and won the WS, but it is still a team that does not know how to be good winners. They are showing this day after day this year. I really can't remember any WS winner of the last decade showing this much unprofessionalism. I really hope someone in that clubhouse teaches this team how to act. When the Yanks were winners 4 out of 5, none of this happened. The Red Sox truely sound like they lost last year and can't accept. Fascinating...
Exactly, I don't recall the D-Backs, Marlins or Angels talking like this.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:09 PM
That article should end this discussion.
And hopefully everyone now will follow A-Rod's example.
yanksrule69
02-20-05, 01:09 PM
Did you see the second part of my post that you quoted? It said: "being a Yankee has something to do with it".
You think they would look the other way becasue he was a Ranger had he done the same thing? That's hard to believe.
I don't think the reaction would be nearly the same. I don't think they would continue on and on with comments tossed in his direction. I don't think they would waste an entire offseason talking about him after they just won the World Series.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 01:09 PM
But you're also not the only to person to blame if someone is in your face taunting you and you, in turn, hit them.
It makes you worse. People talk. Fine, let them. There is no good reason to get physical.
Also, can we please get back on topic before a mod closes this thread? Thanks.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:09 PM
I'm still waiting for one, ANY yankee fan to tell me when would have been a good time for tek to take his mask off.
So the guy can flip off the mask to snag a pop up, but has no motor skills when another human being is supposedly taunting him to "come on"?
Bias/Blinders....c'mon now.
Indeed.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:10 PM
You seem to imply that character is somehow differnt than the peoples actions. I would submit that peoples actions is what determines their character....
People's actions clearly do not determine their character, since people often act in ways that they believe will achieve a desired end -- not that they believe are the "right" thing to do. (If you want to jump into something this late, you might want to read the earlier posts. I addressed this already.)
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:10 PM
And steroids.....
I didn't realize it was official club policy that Yankee players take steroids.
Not too much of a cheap shot.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 01:12 PM
And steroids.....and wall-punching.....and glove-slapping.....and calling teams "walking disasters"....and so forth.....
There is no difference.
Steroids are a baseball-wide issue. If the 7% positive test rate is correct, odds are at least one Red Sox player was using too.
Kevin Brown hit an inanimate object (and was a fool to do so). The Yankee organization fined him, and the fine went to charity.
Glove-slapping...again, it was a ONE time thing and even Arroyo has said he understands why it happened in the heat of the moment.
Sheffield claims either to have never said that line or he said it months earlier. (Can't remember which.) In any case, there's no justification for it if he said it, but he was the only guy to make such a stupid statement and no one else piled on afterwards.
Admit it. Face facts. There is a HUGE difference between the organizations. Why not embrace it instead of fighting it?
I don't think the reaction would be nearly the same. I don't think they would continue on and on with comments tossed in his direction. I don't think they would waste an entire offseason talking about him after they just won the World Series.
Outside of Schilling's original comments in October, the talk only started last week. Not exactly the whole offseason.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:13 PM
I didn't realize it was official club policy that Yankee players take steroids.
Not too much of a cheap shot.
And one would have to be pretty ignorant to believe that there aren't Red Sox now and past that use/used steroids.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:14 PM
Enough of the sanctimonious bias/blinders soap box crap as if you are sitting there with 100% objectivity. I guess the binders thing is if you disagree with anything Red Sox. I admit that I am a biased Yankee fan, just like you are a biased Red Sox fan. I guess we should say, yes Varitek is an angel, he said/did nothing and A-Rod instigated it all. (insert rolls eye smiley).
I never said I was 100% objective, but I understand why yanks fans don't like Varitek.....most of you still seem confused as to why Sox fans don't like A-Rod, as if it were some big mystery.
I know I'm a biased Sox fan, but I'm not saying Varitek was innocent or an angel or that A-Rod instigated the whole thing....it takes two to tango...although it does take one to yell "COME ON MOTHERF*CKER" while waving his arms.
And for everybody who still won't get off the whole "Tek should have taken off his mask" nonsense take a look at this:
http://www.geocities.com/backstop20_yankees/baseballfight.avi
Jorge Posada.....fighting
.........with his mask on.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:15 PM
The Big Four of A-Rod (cursing, fight, slap, comments) is enough to make a fanbase dislike him. And yes, being a Yankee has something to do with it, but by no means is that the only reason.
If you're supposed "Big Four" are reasons for hating A-Rod, then you can apply them to just about any Red Sox player, as well. The Yankees should have just as much reason to jaw as the Red Sox, they just don't feel the need to.
People's actions clearly do not determine their character, since people often act in ways that they believe will achieve a desired end -- not that they believe are the "right" thing to do. (If you want to jump into something this late, you might want to read the earlier posts. I addressed this already.)
So, if people do things that they know are worng, that doesn't reflect on their character??? So, you're saying that peoples character is determined by what they think is right, even though they choose not to act accordingly?
Very intersting perspective
If you're supposed "Big Four" are reasons for hating A-Rod, then you can apply them to just about any Red Sox player, as well. The Yankees should have just as much reason to jaw as the Red Sox, they just don't feel the need to.
Fine, but don't be so shocked when Red Sox fans don't like A-Rod.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:17 PM
I never said I was 100% objective, but I understand why yanks fans don't like Varitek.....most of you still seem confused as to why Sox fans don't like A-Rod, as if it were some big mystery.
I know I'm a biased Sox fan, but I'm not saying Varitek was innocent or an angel or that A-Rod instigated the whole thing....it takes two to tango...although it does take one to yell "COME ON MOTHERF*CKER" while waving his arms.
And for everybody who still won't get off the whole "Tek should have taken off his mask" nonsense take a look at this:
http://www.geocities.com/backstop20_yankees/baseballfight.avi
Jorge Posada.....fighting
.........with his mask on.
I agree there was blame on both sides in that incident but my personal belief is that the person that throws the first punch (unless they honestly feel their well-being was in question) is the one to get more of the blame.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 01:18 PM
I agree there was blame on both sides in that incident but my personal belief is that the person that throws the first punch (unless they honestly feel their well-being was in question) is the one to get more of the blame.
I agree with that as well. Whether Tek was wearing a mask or not isn't really the issue. It's the fact that he started the brawl by putting his hands on A-Rod.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:18 PM
I'm sure Bill James ripped him a new one after the game.
Everytime I read through posts arguing over saber stuff, the voice of the "Comic book store guy" rings through my head.
Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand any of it. Me and Tek. ;)
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:19 PM
Fine, but don't be so shocked when Red Sox fans don't like A-Rod.
This isn't about Red Sox FANS, this is about Red Sox PLAYERS. I have no problem with fans views, but I do think the players should rise above that. I just laugh that Sox fans call him Payrod when they would have had no objection to his pay if he went to Boston.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:20 PM
Everytime I read through posts arguing over saber stuff, the voice of the "Comic book store guy" rings through my head.
Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand any of it. Me and Tek. ;)
I do believe in a good amount of it, but I don't view Sabermetrics as the end all of evaluating a player.
This isn't about Red Sox FANS, this is about Red Sox PLAYERS. I have no problem with fans views, but I do think the players should rise above that. I just laugh that Sox fans call him Payrod when they would have had no objection to his pay if he went to Boston.
The Red Sox aren't going to change because they won. They feel that A-Rod acted in a manner that they feel is disrespectful. They aren't exactly grasping at straws. A-Rod has done things that make people look at him differently.
And Payrod is the tamest nickname A-Rod has. ;)
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:21 PM
Steroids is a baseball-wide issue. If the 7% positive test rate is correct, odds are at least one Red Sox player was using too.
Kevin Brown hit an inanimate object (and was a fool to do so). The Yankee organization fined him, and the fine went to charity.
Glove-slapping...again, it was a ONE time thing and even Arroyo has said he understands why it happened in the heat of the moment.
Sheffield claims either to have never said that line or he said it months earlier. (Can't remember which.) In any case, there's no justification for it if he said it, but he was the only guy to make such a stupid statement and no one else piled on afterwards.
Admit it. Face facts. There is a HUGE difference between the organizations. Why not embrace it instead of fighting it?
Hahahaha
This coming from the orginization that "accidentaly" omitted the steroid clause in Giambi's contract? You're right. There is a huge difference.
Regardless of what happened with Kevin Brown's fine-money, he still punched a wall and broke his hand when his team needed him. Real class.
Your justifications for the stupid things the Yankees have done are really pointless, they all still happened and all showed a pretty severe lack of class which you claim is the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:21 PM
Fine, but don't be so shocked when Red Sox fans don't like A-Rod.
Who's shocked? I'm just shocked at the silly reasons.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:25 PM
I do believe in a good amount of it, but I don't view Sabermetrics as the end all of evaluating a player.
Like I said...I plead ignorance. I've always loved baseball, but I've never been one to pour over stats. Maybe it has to do with my bias against math...or I should say, math's bias against me.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:25 PM
Here's what I take away from all the babbling going on in Red Sox camp towards the Yankees: they're scared.
Not of the Yankees, necessarily, but the upcoming season. Let's face it - unless they repeat they get thrown onto the same pile as Anaheim, AZ, and Florida. World Champions, yes. Incredible feat coming back from 0-3? Absolutely. A franchise as special as the Yanks? Nope.
Boston (the city) will not be content with simply "breaking the curse". THe fans, the front office - that ain't what it's about. Not anymore. It's now about proving they can seperate themselves from the rest of the baseball pack, like NY has done. The Yanks haven't won a WS since 2000, but all roads to a championship lead through the Bronx, and the Sox know it.
For all the talk about the pressure being on the Yanks this year (what else is new...annual rite of spring), the reality is it's Boston that has to win it all. They're no longer playing with house money. Time to prove last season really wasn't just a magic carpet ride....
I'm just one fan, but I think you're pretty far off. All that really mattered was winning -- not beating the Yankees, but winning the WS. I know some Sox fans viewed beating the Yanks as being as important, or almost as important, but that is just one portion of the fanbase. So they did what I wanted to see them do, and the pressure is off.
Regarding comparisons to the Yankees, winning this year doesn't put them anywhere near the yankees as a franchise. It would be nice to win again, especially given that it would be 2 in a row, but it does virtually nothing to level the playing field with the Yanks as a franchise, given the Yanks' history.
And regarding Anaheim, AZ and Fla, there's no comparison there, either. The Sox are one of the most successful franchises in baseball history, once the Yanks are removed. Even in recent decades, they've been to the WS several times, been in the playoffs frequently and, when they didn't reach the postseason, usually failed b/c of one team -- the team that is the greatest franchise in baseball history.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:26 PM
Didn't Arroyo lead the league in hit batsmen? When, outside of Nolan Ryan using Robin Ventura as his own punching bag, has a pitcher and batter gone at it?
So how many times has Varitek gotten into a fight with one of Arroyo's victims?
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:27 PM
So how many times has Varitek gotten into a fight with one of Arroyo's victims?
Probably about as many times as Arroyo's "victims" scream "F*ck you" and "Come on motherf*cker" right to his face.
HipHipJorge
02-20-05, 01:28 PM
That article should end this discussion.
I liked the way AROD ended it:
Rodriguez said he also wasn't bothered that the Yankees organization and some of his teammates didn't come to his defense. Both Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada refused to comment on the banter between Nixon and Rodriguez.
"It shows what a classy organization it is," Rodriguez said of the Yankees. "They don't get caught up in the everyday stuff. I appreciate their position."
And while baseball nation has been focused on the latest saga between the two rival teams, Rodriguez has had more important things to think about.
"I have a new daughter. And I had two close family members look at death in the face this week and they're in the hospital. And I had my daughter born. My perspective in my life has changed with my baby and I'm just focusing in that."
yanksphan
02-20-05, 01:29 PM
I'm still waiting for one, ANY yankee fan to tell me when would have been a good time for tek to take his mask off.
And I have a feeling I'll still be waiting.
Please - REMEMBER this post next time Tek pops his mask off in half a second to catch a foul ball behind the plate.
He had to take his mask off - not read War and Peace cover to cover.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:29 PM
The Red Sox aren't going to change because they won. They feel that A-Rod acted in a manner that they feel is disrespectful. They aren't exactly grasping at straws. A-Rod has done things that make people look at him differently.
And Payrod is the tamest nickname A-Rod has. ;)
So basically, they have to say anything they feel, self-restraint is not an option. They can't think something and keep it to themselves. Yankee players dislike Schilling, you don't see half the Yankee team trashing Schilling. As I said above, I think A-Rod was wrong for retaliating to Schilling's statements earlier.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 01:29 PM
Probably about as many times as Arroyo's "victims" scream "F*ck you" and "Come on motherf*cker" right to his face.
What was A-Rod supposed to say? "Why thank you, sir. I greatly appreciate you hitting me with that baseball. We must do that again sometime."
I don't think so. You can argue that he shouldn't have said anything at all, which I myself agree with, but in the absence of silence, I can't think of anything more appropriate than "F*ck you."
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:30 PM
Hahahaha
This coming from the orginization that "accidentaly" omitted the steroid clause in Giambi's contract? You're right. There is a huge difference.
Regardless of what happened with Kevin Brown's fine-money, he still punched a wall and broke his hand when his team needed him. Real class.
Your justifications for the stupid things the Yankees have done are really pointless, they all still happened and all showed a pretty severe lack of class which you claim is the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox.
So do you think the Sox are steroid free? Besides this thread has NOTHING to do with steroids, it has to do with players opening their mouths.
Wow, I'm a little late to this party.
Two things that caught my eye:
I'll take that and I'm sure other Sox fans will, too. Back-to-Back sounds good to me. ;)
Thanks for stipulating that the Sox are the most classless champions, <i>ever</i>.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:31 PM
Please - REMEMBER this post next time Tek pops his mask off in half a second to catch a foul ball behind the plate.
He had to take his mask off - not read War and Peace cover to cover.
Did you look at the Posada video?
Do you understand the differnece between being challenged to a fight and trying to catch a foul pop-up?
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:32 PM
I liked the way AROD ended it:
Rodriguez said he also wasn't bothered that the Yankees organization and some of his teammates didn't come to his defense. Both Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada refused to comment on the banter between Nixon and Rodriguez.
"It shows what a classy organization it is," Rodriguez said of the Yankees. "They don't get caught up in the everyday stuff. I appreciate their position."
And while baseball nation has been focused on the latest saga between the two rival teams, Rodriguez has had more important things to think about.
"I have a new daughter. And I had two close family members look at death in the face this week and they're in the hospital. And I had my daughter born. My perspective in my life has changed with my baby and I'm just focusing in that."
I'm still waiting for some Sox fan to come in with a problem with this statement saying it was an insult in disguise somehow.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:34 PM
So do you think the Sox are steroid free? Besides this thread has NOTHING to do with steroids, it has to do with players opening their mouths.
I don't know if they are.....I do know that the Yankees aren't.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:35 PM
I don't know if they are.....I do know that the Yankees aren't.
Every team has players using steroids, to think otherwise would be the ultimat bias/blinders mentality. The only difference between the Yanks and Sox is that there is a name attached to the Yankee user.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:36 PM
I didn't say what I think...I said what I know
I know the yankees are not steroid free, I don't KNOW if the Sox are.
That's all I said, it's the truth, and since none of you KNOW that any Sox are on steroids all you can do is say what you think.
I'll stick with what I know for now.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:37 PM
So, if people do things that they know are worng, that doesn't reflect on their character??? So, you're saying that peoples character is determined by what they think is right, even though they choose not to act accordingly?
Very intersting perspective
Wrong. You clearly are not reading very carefully. I said that actions do not determine character. Not that they do not reflect on character. Do I need to waste my time posting examples for you, or if you think about it for a moment, can you understand the difference?
Work on your grammatical errors and sentence structure.
Who is condescending?
Way to bait another poster rather than responding to his comments.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:38 PM
And regarding Anaheim, AZ and Fla, there's no comparison there, either. The Sox are one of the most successful franchises in baseball history, once the Yanks are removed. Even in recent decades, they've been to the WS several times, been in the playoffs frequently and, when they didn't reach the postseason, usually failed b/c of one team -- the team that is the greatest franchise in baseball history.
Yeah, but, you can't remove the Yanks, now can you? Besides, the Yanks were absolutely DREADFUL for long stretches of time (80's aren't THAT long ago).
The comparison to Anaheim et al is very apt...unless they win it again this year. If you want to believe that there's no pressure on the defending World Champions, then you absolutely believe that Boston is no different than Florida.
I actually think we agree.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:39 PM
I didn't say what I think...I said what I know
I know the yankees are not steroid free, I don't KNOW if the Sox are.
That's all I said, it's the truth, and since none of you KNOW that any Sox are on steroids all you can do is say what you think.
I'll stick with what I know for now.
We don't know that a specific Sox is on them, I think to think there's even a chance that there isn't is foolish to say the least. There are Sox, and on all 30 teams that have used them, that I know, maybe not now, but in recent times before testing.
bnorris85
02-20-05, 01:39 PM
“There are 650 or 700 players who are sleeping or taking their kids to school,” Rodriguez said at the time. “But there’s no way they’re going to be running the stairs or doing what I’m doing.”
Nixon’s response: “Well I’m not a deadbeat dad, you clown. That’s what I said to myself. What’s wrong with me taking my kid to school and then going to work out?”
IM SORRY, but that is just hilarious
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 01:39 PM
Hahahaha
This coming from the orginization that "accidentaly" omitted the steroid clause in Giambi's contract? You're right. There is a huge difference.
Regardless of what happened with Kevin Brown's fine-money, he still punched a wall and broke his hand when his team needed him. Real class.
Your justifications for the stupid things the Yankees have done are really pointless, they all still happened and all showed a pretty severe lack of class which you claim is the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox.
I think you're the one with blinders on right now.
I didn't justify anything -- actually, just the opposite re: my comments about Brown & Sheffield. Nor were my examples pointless. They were merely instructive in showing the flaws in your argument.
As for Giambi's contract, there's definitely something interesting there. To be honest, I haven't been following that aspect of the controversy too closely. Regardless, the overall steroid problem is league-wide and EVERYONE looked the other way, from the Commissioner on down.
Seeing as we're never going to agree on this particular topic, let's look ahead. I suggest you take a look at A-Rod's response to the Red Sox players' comments. (The link is further up the thread.) Now that's class.
I don't have a link in front of me but also read what Wakefield and Foulke said when recently interviewed. Now it's time for the rest of the Red Sox players -- and the team management -- to follow their example.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:39 PM
I didn't say what I think...I said what I know
I know the yankees are not steroid free, I don't KNOW if the Sox are.
That's all I said, it's the truth, and since none of you KNOW that any Sox are on steroids all you can do is say what you think.
I'll stick with what I know for now.
Really? So you "know" that the Yankees, as an organization, has a policy promoting the use of steroids?
I'd LOVE to see that document...
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:40 PM
What was A-Rod supposed to say? ...I don't think so. You can argue that he shouldn't have said anything at all, which I myself agree with, ...
You answered your own question. Getting hit is part of the game. Take your base.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 01:40 PM
Did you look at the Posada video?
Do you understand the differnece between being challenged to a fight and trying to catch a foul pop-up?
Hey, I'm not the one who seems to think removal of a catcher's mask requires a 2 week lead time....
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:41 PM
What was A-Rod supposed to say? "Why thank you, sir. I greatly appreciate you hitting me with that baseball. We must do that again sometime."
I don't think so. You can argue that he shouldn't have said anything at all, which I myself agree with, but in the absence of silence, I can't think of anything more appropriate than "F*ck you."
Exctly! I'm sure A-Rod is the only one to ever be upset at being hit. I'm so sorry that Varitek's delicate sensibilities were assaulted. :lol: He's probably not used to that.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:42 PM
Really? So you "know" that the Yankees, as an organization, has a policy promoting the use of steroids?
I'd LOVE to see that document...
The contract DID include clauses against illegal substances and items detrimental to health, I hardly consider that condoning steroids. I think the part in there is more encompassing than just steroids.
We are sooooo in their heads.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:42 PM
I'm still waiting for some Sox fan to come in with a problem with this statement saying it was an insult in disguise somehow.
Of course there's nothing wrong with it. But do you see the irony in your statement?
All I wonder is if, with a baby now, he might understand why not everybody is working out in the morning, instead taking their kids to school.
You answered your own question. Getting hit is part of the game. Take your base.
As long as the batter doesn't charge the mound, there is nothing wrong with a little trash talking in response. He should have been able to do that without getting choked by some guy weaing a mask.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:43 PM
“There are 650 or 700 players who are sleeping or taking their kids to school,” Rodriguez said at the time. “But there’s no way they’re going to be running the stairs or doing what I’m doing.”
Nixon’s response: “Well I’m not a deadbeat dad, you clown. That’s what I said to myself. What’s wrong with me taking my kid to school and then going to work out?”
IM SORRY, but that is just hilarious
As funny as it is, I do not see Trot's name mentioned in Alex's (admittedly illadvised) comments.
sharoncass
02-20-05, 01:43 PM
So do you think the Sox are steroid free? Besides this thread has NOTHING to do with steroids, it has to do with players opening their mouths.
When in doubt, bring up steroids. :)
We are sooooo in their heads.
Players and fans.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:44 PM
You answered your own question. Getting hit is part of the game. Take your base.
Except you're conveniently forgetting that the Sox had been using the Yankee lineup as target practice for most of the season up until that point.
THAT ain't part of the game.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:45 PM
Of course there's nothing wrong with it. But do you see the irony in your statement?
All I wonder is if, with a baby now, he might understand why not everybody is working out in the morning, instead taking their kids to school.
I have said so many freaking times it is getting beyond absurd to say it yet again :o that I think A-Rod's statement was illadvised, but to make it justify the classless comments this past week is laughable.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:45 PM
Yeah, but, you can't remove the Yanks, now can you? Besides, the Yanks were absolutely DREADFUL for long stretches of time (80's aren't THAT long ago).
The comparison to Anaheim et al is very apt...unless they win it again this year. If you want to believe that there's no pressure on the defending World Champions, then you absolutely believe that Boston is no different than Florida.
I actually think we agree.
Of course not -- nobody can argue that the Yankees are not the pre-eminent franchise in baseball history.
Re. Anaheim, the comparison could be apt re. their respective reigns as WS champs, if the Sox don't win, but not regarding the franchises.
And, yes, there's pressure, but not as much as there was in past years, and perhaps not as much as is on the Yankees (the latter could be argued in either direction - I don't pretend to know).
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:45 PM
When in doubt, bring up steroids. :)
When you don't have a leg to stand on with the subject at hand, change the subject! ;)
Prickly Pete
02-20-05, 01:46 PM
..there is nothing wrong with a little trash talking in response.
Exactly, because we all know that a little trash talking in sports is nothing to get all bent out of shape about. :)
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:47 PM
Does anyone know what horny goat weed is?
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 01:48 PM
Exactly, because we all know that a little trash talking in sports is nothing to get all bent out of shape about. :)
I'm sure you know there's a difference between trash talking ON the field and trash talking OFF the field.
But I still chuckled when I read your post. :)
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:49 PM
As long as the batter doesn't charge the mound, there is nothing wrong with a little trash talking in response. He should have been able to do that without getting choked by some guy weaing a mask.
I don't have a problem with the trash-talking, actually. However, to pretend (not referring to you) that ARod had no alternative but to stand there and jaw with Arroyo is silly.
(I've agreed all along that tek was more to blame than anybody for the fight. I just assign part of the blame, albeit less, to ARod, too -- something some people just cannot accept.)
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:49 PM
And, yes, there's pressure, but not as much as there was in past years, and perhaps not as much as is on the Yankees (the latter could be argued in either direction - I don't pretend to know).
That fanbase is NOT going to accept anything less than a WS. Too many big names, too many big contracts, too many big mouths.
It also doesn't help having the Patriots play in your neck of the woods.
The Yankees have the same BS pressure on them that they do EVERY year. The media assumes they must win a WS or else...I've yet to see what the "or else" is, but hey - as I said it's the same old same old. It was especially funny seeing the media react to Steinbrenner's non-reaction after the 2004 debacle.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 01:50 PM
Do you understand the differnece between being challenged to a fight and trying to catch a foul pop-up?
Apparantly when it matters to the team's benefit, it's quite easy. But when you are about to get your ass kicked by someone, it all of a sudden becomes very difficult.
Exactly, because we all know that a little trash talking in sports is nothing to get all bent out of shape about. :)
Yup, drawing an anology between the anger caused by getting hit with a 90 mph pitch in the heat of battle and the afterglow of a WS championship is totally on point.
I know that you can do better than that. ;)
I don't have a problem with the trash-talking, actually. However, to pretend (not referring to you) that ARod had no alternative but to stand there and jaw with Arroyo is silly.
(I've agreed all along that tek was more to blame than anybody for the fight. I just assign part of the blame, albeit less, to ARod, too -- something some people just cannot accept.)
One of your fellow Sox fans, not naming names, accused me of "wearing a tin foil hat" for saying that "tek" was more to blame. Yet he claims to just post on this board for intelligent discussion.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:52 PM
Except you're conveniently forgetting that the Sox had been using the Yankee lineup as target practice for most of the season up until that point.
THAT ain't part of the game.
Sure it is, if it's part of pitching inside. And the Sox had at least 3 starters who pitch inside, one of whom is wild. At that time, though, I don't think the disparity was significant b/t the teams.
I don't recall Miguel Cairo jawing after he got hit. (I mention him b/c Cairo's a guy who, when I saw him play, clearly seemed to play hard and play the game right.)
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 01:52 PM
(I've agreed all along that tek was more to blame than anybody for the fight. I just assign part of the blame, albeit less, to ARod, too -- something some people just cannot accept.)
I agree with that, I think A-Rod does warrant some blame, there are no innocents in a fight, but it seems from reading some Sox fans posts that some think A-Rod was more to blame and to me that's foolish.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:53 PM
I have said so many freaking times it is getting beyond absurd to say it yet again :o that I think A-Rod's statement was illadvised, but to make it justify the classless comments this past week is laughable.
Wasn't speaking about your own comments -- apologies for any misunderstanding
Prickly Pete
02-20-05, 01:53 PM
I'm sure you know there's a difference between trash talking ON the field and trash talking OFF the field.
But I still chuckled when I read your post. :)
Just trying to lighten the mood a bit. I'm in the camp that doesn't think a little jawing is that big a deal, but I have certainly learned that I'm in the minority on that on this site. To each his own.
If the Red Sox players shut up, I would be cool with that. :)
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 01:55 PM
Really? So you "know" that the Yankees, as an organization, has a policy promoting the use of steroids?
I'd LOVE to see that document...
When the hell did I ever say that?
I said there are two admitted steroid users on the Yankees right now. Well, one and a half (if you want to call what Sheff said an admission)
I do know that they nixed the steroid clause....I guess in a round-about way that's promoting the use of steroids....isn't it?
And I like how the Yankees are in "our" heads....when every time a Red Sox player says anything there's a 10 page thread on it over here.
And yes, A-Rod's last response was probably the smartest response he could have given. I would hope everybody follows suit.
However I'll say this again to the Yankee fans, your team is not classier, your orginization is not classier, your fans are not classier, and your city is not classier.
They're all roughly the same, top to bottom, and all the personal jabs, steroid admissions, cups on the ears and wall-punches aren't going to change that. Your team isn't classier, neither is mine. Period.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:55 PM
That fanbase is NOT going to accept anything less than a WS. Too many big names, too many big contracts, too many big mouths....
We'll see. I think there are going to be a lot of appeased fans who will be disappointed if the team doesn't play well / win, but not heartbroken (again).
i wonder if matt mantei will still be talking trash when he makes his usual season ending dl stint . this guy is more brittle than griff.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:55 PM
Sure it is, if it's part of pitching inside. And the Sox had at least 3 starters who pitch inside, one of whom is wild.
Yeah...the two times Sheffiled got hit during the course of one series in the Bronx were clearly the result of good old fashioned inside pitching.
I'm SO happy we have RJ this year. To Protect and Serve indeed.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:56 PM
Apparantly when it matters to the team's benefit, it's quite easy. But when you are about to get your ass kicked by someone, it all of a sudden becomes very difficult.
Are you talking about tek or Posada?
Thanks for stipulating that the Sox are the most classless champions, <i>ever</i>.
You said this:
2005 Boston Red Sox: The most classless champions in the history of team sports.
I'll take a title in 2005, too, no matter what Yankee fans think of the Red Sox.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 01:56 PM
i wonder if matt mantei will still be talking trash when he makes his usual season ending dl stint . this guy is more brittle than griff.
Yeah, but at least he doesn't have a big ego about it. That's the key. And he won't big time anyone else on the DL either.
cubswin
02-20-05, 01:57 PM
One of your fellow Sox fans, not naming names, accused me of "wearing a tin foil hat" for saying that "tek" was more to blame. Yet he claim to just post on this board for intelligent discussion.
Sorry about that -- not all fans see things the same.
Prickly Pete
02-20-05, 01:57 PM
I know that you can do better than that. ;)
If I could have, I would have. ;)
You said this:
2005 Boston Red Sox: The most classless champions in the history of team sports.
I'll take a title in 2005, too, no matter what Yankee fans think of the Red Sox.
I took some liberties with your post in the name of fun.
I hear ya, but class is a worthwhile value as well.
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:00 PM
Yeah...the two times Sheffiled got hit during the course of one series in the Bronx were clearly the result of good old fashioned inside pitching.
I'm SO happy we have RJ this year. To Protect and Serve indeed.
Could be. A lot of Yanks fans thought it must have been intentional when Soriano and Jeter got hit consecutively, too, and I think they were clearly wrong. (I'd need to go back to the games re. Sheffield, though, to offer an opinion.)
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 02:01 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this thread went nowhere fast?
scull567
02-20-05, 02:01 PM
When the hell did I ever say that?
I said there are two admitted steroid users on the Yankees right now. Well, one and a half (if you want to call what Sheff said an admission)
I do know that they nixed the steroid clause....I guess in a round-about way that's promoting the use of steroids....isn't it?
And I like how the Yankees are in "our" heads....when every time a Red Sox player says anything there's a 10 page thread on it over here.
And yes, A-Rod's last response was probably the smartest response he could have given. I would hope everybody follows suit.
However I'll say this again to the Yankee fans, your team is not classier, your orginization is not classier, your fans are not classier, and your city is not classier.
They're all roughly the same, top to bottom, and all the personal jabs, steroid admissions, cups on the ears and wall-punches aren't going to change that. Your team isn't classier, neither is mine. Period.
:clap: Excellent post!
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:02 PM
When the hell did I ever say that?
I said there are two admitted steroid users on the Yankees right now. Well, one and a half (if you want to call what Sheff said an admission)
Well, when using "steroids" as "proof" of the Yanks not being classy, you're implying the organization had something to do with that. It's the equivelent to someone bringing up the spousal-abuse charges against a former Red Sox player as "proof" the Sox aren't classy. I agree with you, though, the argument is a silly one.
And I like how the Yankees are in "our" heads....when every time a Red Sox player says anything there's a 10 page thread on it over here.
Well, we don't play for the New York Yankees. Trot Nixon, Curt Schilling, Matt Mantei, etc do play for the Red Sox. Small difference there, wouldn't you say?
Also, how does a 10 page thread REACTING to a Sox player mouthing off about the Yankees disprove that the Yanks aren't in the Sox heads?
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:02 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this thread went nowhere fast?
sure -- from the beginning
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:02 PM
Are you talking about tek or Posada?
Varitek.
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:03 PM
Varitek.
So, why didn't Posada remove his mask when fighting? (apologies if I missed a post addressing that)
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:04 PM
Could be. A lot of Yanks fans thought it must have been intentional when Soriano and Jeter got hit consecutively, too, and I think they were clearly wrong. (I'd need to go back to the games re. Sheffield, though, to offer an opinion.)
Jeter gets hit because he dives into plate. I'm never surprised when he gets jammed on the wrists, and quite frankly neither is he.
Sheff was plunked by Pedro and then was hit to load the bases in a situation where the Sox wanted to set up a a DP. They could have IW'd him, but chose to hit him instead.
One of the moments during the season that I really missed Clemens.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:06 PM
So, why didn't Posada remove his mask when fighting? (apologies if I missed a post addressing that)
You did miss something - I was responding to a poster claiming the reason Varitek did not remove his mask was because he had no time to do so.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 02:06 PM
Just trying to lighten the mood a bit. I'm in the camp that doesn't think a little jawing is that big a deal, but I have certainly learned that I'm in the minority on that on this site. To each his own.
A little mood-lightening is always appreciated. :)
I just find incredible the quantity of Red Sox players who've spoken out. It's really unprecedented, particularly given that they're the WS champs. And I totally don't get why the Red Sox FO has let it go on. Honestly, outside of Boston it's getting some really bad play.
If the Red Sox players shut up, I would be cool with that. :)
After what A-Rod said today, I think they're going to have to now. Any more talk and it'll look even more like baiting.
Am I the only one who thinks this thread went nowhere fast?
Are you taking responsibility? ;)
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 02:08 PM
A little mood-lightening is always appreciated. :)
I just find incredible the quantity of Red Sox players who've spoken out. It's really unprecedented, particularly given that they're the WS champs. And I totally don't get why the Red Sox FO has let it go on. Honestly, outside of Boston it's getting some really bad play.
After what A-Rod said today, I think they're going to have to now. Any more talk and it'll look even more like baiting.
Would I be wrong to think that even though Alex came out and effectively told them where to stick it, they'll still be talking?
Well, when using "steroids" as "proof" of the Yanks not being classy, you're implying the organization had something to do with that. It's the equivelent to someone bringing up the spousal-abuse charges against a former Red Sox player as "proof" the Sox aren't classy. I agree with you, though, the argument is a silly one.
Well, when they signed Jason Giambi, a player who some had guessed used steroids, they took the word "steroids" out of the contract and lied about it before deciding that they were digging themselves into a hole.
And I like how the Yankees are in "our" heads....when every time a Red Sox player says anything there's a 10 page thread on it over here.
.
A lot of that has to do with trolling by the sox fans. This thread would have died long ago except for the efforts of a few and responses by the yankee fans. Ironic that that can't happen at certain sox boards because of their exclusive nature
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 02:09 PM
The incredible quantity of Sox players who have spoken out is 4....just so you know, and yes, I'm not including Arroyo or Tek's statements because neither of them said anything even remotely insulting toward A-Rod or NY.
I wouldn't call 4 an incredible quantity....it probably seems like more since every time anyone says anything there is a 10 page thread, but that's really not that much.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 02:09 PM
Are you taking responsibility? ;)
:lol:
Well, I was the 2nd post in this thread......so, I guess so.
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:09 PM
You did miss something - I was responding to a poster claiming the reason Varitek did not remove his mask was because he had no time to do so.
So, am I correct to assume that any comments re. tek not removing his mask also apply to Posada?
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:11 PM
.... Honestly, outside of Boston it's getting some really bad play...
Not much in LA -- just the AP article yesterday in the LA Times
Jeter gets hit because he dives into plate. I'm never surprised when he gets jammed on the wrists, and quite frankly neither is he.
Sheff was plunked by Pedro and then was hit to load the bases in a situation where the Sox wanted to set up a a DP. They could have IW'd him, but chose to hit him instead.
One of the moments during the season that I really missed Clemens.
RJ WILL take up the slack there
The incredible quantity of Sox players who have spoken out is 4....just so you know, and yes, I'm not including Arroyo or Tek's statements because neither of them said anything even remotely insulting toward A-Rod or NY.
I wouldn't call 4 an incredible quantity....it probably seems like more since every time anyone says anything there is a 10 page thread, but that's really not that much.
Yeah, why should Yankee fans discuss the trashing of their players on a Yankee site?
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:13 PM
A lot of that has to do with trolling by the sox fans. This thread would have died long ago except for the efforts of a few and responses by the yankee fans. Ironic that that can't happen at certain sox boards because of their exclusive nature
How is SOSH at all relevant to this thread?
Amusing, though, that you blame the Sox fans for this thread being long.
SheffMVP11
02-20-05, 02:13 PM
And I like how the Yankees are in "our" heads....when every time a Red Sox player says anything there's a 10 page thread on it over here.
Mostly because of Sox trolls like NDBoston and yourself who's feelings get hurt when Yankee fans mention a loud mouth bullsh*tting Sox player. Just take a look at this 10 page thread, it's mostly responses to you, S2, etc.
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 02:13 PM
Where did I say you shouldn't discuss it?
Go ahead and discuss it.....but when words like "incredible quantity" start getting thrown around in regards to how many Red Sox players are talking things tend to get exaggerated.....unless 4 really is an incredible quantity.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:14 PM
So, am I correct to assume that any comments re. tek not removing his mask also apply to Posada?
No - the poster claimed Tek had no time to remove his mask in that specific instance - yet he had time to respond to 4 or 5 ARod F-bombs.
If the roles were reversed, and the circumstances the same - of course it would apply to Posada as well.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 02:14 PM
The incredible quantity of Sox players who have spoken out is 4....just so you know, and yes, I'm not including Arroyo or Tek's statements because neither of them said anything even remotely insulting toward A-Rod or NY.
I wouldn't call 4 an incredible quantity....it probably seems like more since every time anyone says anything there is a 10 page thread, but that's really not that much.
You say 4, I say 6...but it should have stopped at 1 (Schilling).
5 out of that 6 will almost assuredly be on the Opening Day starting roster. That's one-fifth of the team. It's not insignificant.
And right now the SoSH thread titled "Trot discusses A-Rod" is up to nine pages, so we're all in this together.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:14 PM
Well, when they signed Jason Giambi, a player who some had guessed used steroids, they took the word "steroids" out of the contract and lied about it before deciding that they were digging themselves into a hole.
Okay, so you are stating that the Yankees as an organization encouraged steroid use, correct?
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:15 PM
... of course it would apply to Posada as well.
fair enough -- thanks for acknowledging that
The whole "we're in thier head" line is old. If the Yankees are in the heads of Sox players and fans, it's not for the same reason they used to be or want to be.
SheffMVP11
02-20-05, 02:15 PM
How is SOSH at all relevant to this thread?
Amusing, though, that you blame the Sox fans for this thread being long.
He is saying this is not a problem on SoSH because they are scared of Yankee fans posting there who would point out how stupid they are.
This forum has more objectivity to it because Sox fans are allowed to defend their players here.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:15 PM
Where did I say you shouldn't discuss it?
Go ahead and discuss it.....but when words like "incredible quantity" start getting thrown around in regards to how many Red Sox players are talking things tend to get exaggerated.....unless 4 really is an incredible quantity.
The brick wall you're going to keep hitting your head on is that there is no thread if there are no quotes.
Sox players created this, not the fans posting to NYY.com.
Okay, so you are stating that the Yankees as an organization encouraged steroid use, correct?
They didn't exactly discourage it if they took out "steroids" from the contract per the players request.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:16 PM
Where did I say you shouldn't discuss it?
Go ahead and discuss it.....but when words like "incredible quantity" start getting thrown around in regards to how many Red Sox players are talking things tend to get exaggerated.....unless 4 really is an incredible quantity.
Name another team that has 4 players who have spoken out against the Yankees this offseason - actually name a team that has 1 player!!
Yes, the "incredible quantity" label is warranted.
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:16 PM
...This forum has more objectivity to it because Sox
fans are allowed to defend their players here.
agreed -- I just don't know how it's relevent
Where did I say you shouldn't discuss it?
Go ahead and discuss it.....but when words like "incredible quantity" start getting thrown around in regards to how many Red Sox players are talking things tend to get exaggerated.....unless 4 really is an incredible quantity.
You made it sound like 10 pages (and counting) was an overreaction.
It's not because there is nothing else for bored baseball junkies to talk about.
Edit: Arroyo, Schilling, Nixon, Wells, Mantei
That's 20% of the 25 man roster.
This forum has more objectivity to it because Sox fans are allowed to defend their players here.
You mean Sox fans are allowed to be called trolls and homers here. ;)
TheScooter
02-20-05, 02:17 PM
Matt Mantei?Who? :(
scull567
02-20-05, 02:17 PM
He is saying this is not a problem on SoSH because they are scared of Yankee fans posting there who would point out how stupid they are.
This forum has more objectivity to it because Sox fans are allowed to defend their players here.
But according to you, they aren't defending themselves, they are trolling.
SheffMVP11
02-20-05, 02:18 PM
You mean Sox fans are allowed to be called trolls and homers here. ;)
If it looks like a duck...
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 02:18 PM
Mostly because of Sox trolls like NDBoston and yourself who's feelings get hurt when Yankee fans mention a loud mouth bullsh*tting Sox player. Just take a look at this 10 page thread, it's mostly responses to you, S2, etc.
My feelings don't get hurt over the internet.
And if you think I'm trolling then report me or put me on ignore or something. You certainly don't have to respond if you don't want to. And I have a feeling that even if no Sox fans posted here there would still be 10 pages of "the sox are so classless and we're so classy" in various forms anyway. I don't see how arguing that both teams are equally classy/classless (which is what I've been doing this entire time, in case you haven't noticed) is trolling though.....
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:18 PM
They didn't exactly discourage if they took out "steroids" from the contract per the players request.
Way to twist the facts cowboy.
SheffMVP11
02-20-05, 02:18 PM
But according to you, they aren't defending themselves, they are trolling.
I think NDBoston and Judge Mental are trolls if I ever saw them.
I don't think the same about cubswin.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 02:19 PM
Not much in LA -- just the AP article yesterday in the LA Times
There's been eyerolling by sportscasters here in South Florida, FWIW.
The ESPN News anchor too...but to be fair it's their job to be a bit snarky.
SheffMVP11
02-20-05, 02:20 PM
And I have a feeling that even if no Sox fans posted here there would still be 10 pages of "the sox are so classless and we're so classy" in various forms anyway.
Unfortunately, we'll likely never know, because the mods here don't seem to care much about Sox fans baiting us even when it's reported.
Way to twist the facts cowboy.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1991608&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:23 PM
They didn't exactly discourage it if they took out "steroids" from the contract per the players request.
Why don't you stop hinting at it and take ownership of your assertion. I'll think better of the premise (not by much).
How is SOSH at all relevant to this thread?
Amusing, though, that you blame the Sox fans for this thread being long.
So, I amuse you, you think I'm funny? Haha funny or funny like a clown?
(just watched goodfellas again the other night)
And yes if yu go back and look at the thread, it's only the porvocative responsed s by 3 posters that have kept this thread alive. Without the trolling and bringing up unrelated incidents- ie steroid use and the fight- this thread would have died an early and natural death
Sosh isn't direclty related to the header of the topic, just as the other issues I mentiond above aren't either. It was an irony that I just thought about, and it related to the point thatIi made about this thread in particular.
We don't need more relevancy police here- we have moderators to do that, but I do appreciate your concern.
I'm outta here
Luciano
02-20-05, 02:24 PM
So, if RJ doesn't like ANYBODY then how is it possible that he became friends w/ Mr. Mantei? What a f'n idiot this guys is.
Because Mantei is all special and stuff. He was able to sit the bad, grumpy boy down and become his best and only friend. He's the Angel to Randy's Faith. OMG, soulmates~
Let's face it - unless they repeat they get thrown onto the same pile as Anaheim, AZ, and Florida.
Hey, Florida has won two WS titles, which isn't bad for a team that's an infant in the baseball world. Don't be comparing their WS history with the Red Sox! :p ;)
Admittedly I'm not through this thread yet, but this cracked me up the most so far. :lol:
;)
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:24 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1991608&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233
thanks for the link - it proves you wrong:
But Yankees officials on Monday said they removed the word "steroids" because they felt they were protected by broader language regarding drugs, USA Today reported.
"Saying that coverage (of steroids) use was removed from that contract is wrong," a baseball official familiar with the contract told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark. "When you negotiate contracts, language goes back and forth. The reason the Yankees accepted the broader language is that they were absolutely sure steroids were still 100 percent covered."
doesn't sound like they removed the word to "encourage steroid use" to me....nice try though.
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:24 PM
There's been eyerolling by sportscasters here in South Florida, FWIW.
The ESPN News anchor too...but to be fair it's their job to be a bit snarky.
My guess is that Florida would have more coverage (northerners and spring training), LA less (b/c it's LA)
Judge Mental
02-20-05, 02:24 PM
Unfortunately, we'll likely never know, because the mods here don't seem to care much about Sox fans baiting us even when it's reported.
If I'm such a troll how about just putting me on ignore?
If you look at most of my posts in here the only thing I've argued the entire time is that neither the Sox nor the Yankees are classier than the other. If you consider that trolling/baiting well that's your opinion, but the fact that I've been a registered member here for like 3-4 years should tell you that the mods don't share your opinion.
Pancake
02-20-05, 02:25 PM
And he won't big time anyone else on the DL either.
Best line of the thread!!!
ROTFLMFAO!!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:26 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1991608&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233
"Saying that coverage (of steroids) use was removed from that contract is wrong," a baseball official familiar with the contract told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark. "When you negotiate contracts, language goes back and forth. The reason the Yankees accepted the broader language is that they were absolutely sure steroids were still 100 percent covered."
Cashman told ESPN Radio that steroid language was not prevalent in the contract when Giambi signed with the Yankees.
"In the time and place that Giambi was signed, there was not a steroid policy and therefore steroids would go under the previous drug policy like Demerol or cocaine or anything else a player may be addicted to or gotten wrapped up in and he would go on what was called the administrative track," Cashman said.
I wonder if you bothered to read the article you're linking to? Where does it state Yankee policy encouraged steroids?
scull567
02-20-05, 02:26 PM
I understand how the Yankees felt protected by the broader language but how was an eyebrow not raised when giambi and his agent negotiated for the word "steroids" to be removed from the contract?
thanks for the link - it proves you wrong:
doesn't sound like they removed the word to "encourage steroid use" to me....nice try though.
Did they or did they not remove the word "steroids" from the contract?
I never said they encouraged steroids, but rather didn't discourage it. There's a difference.
They wanted to sign Giambi, but because they discouraged steroids in the language of the contract, they thought he might not sign (for whatever reason) and took it out and used "chemical usegae" as a crutch. If they did nothing wrong, why lie?
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:28 PM
So, I amuse you, you think I'm funny? Haha funny or funny like a clown?
(just watched goodfellas again the other night)
And yes if yu go back and look at the thread, it's only the porvocative responsed s by 3 posters that have kept this thread alive. Without the trolling and bringing up unrelated incidents- ie steroid use and the fight- this thread would have died an early and natural death
Sosh isn't direclty related to the header of the topic, just as the other issues I mentiond above aren't either. It was an irony that I just thought about, and it related to the point thatIi made about this thread in particular.
We don't need more relevancy police here- we have moderators to do that, but I do appreciate your concern.
I'm outta here
sure -- it's all trolling by Sox fans, the Yankee fans have nothing to do with the length of the thread.
(and I had a good story to share with you re. Pesci and that line/scene; sadly, that would be trolling, I suppose)
They didn't exactly discourage it if they took out "steroids" from the contract per the players request.
And included strong language that banned all illegal drugs (that would be inclusive of steroids) in Giambi's contract. Lon Tross, the Yankee attorney who handles the language traded one word for a more restrictive covenant. People are trying to spin this in a way that would imlpy a conspiracy on the part of the Yankee organization when in fact this decision was made in a real time by two parties negotiating contract language and with the Yankees getting maximum prortection.
BronxByTheBay
02-20-05, 02:29 PM
We don't need more relevancy police here- we have moderators to do that, but I do appreciate your concern.
I'd like to second this. Let's leave it to the mods to determine whether a thread is appropriate or not, please.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 02:30 PM
I'm going to get this thread back on topic by bringing up the reason this thread even exists......
So Matt Mantei doesn't like the Yankees. Who cares what he likes or doesn't like.
Pancake
02-20-05, 02:30 PM
They could have IW'd him, but chose to hit him instead.
Classy move.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:30 PM
I wonder if you bothered to read
you've given too much credit already.
MiamiKat
02-20-05, 02:31 PM
My guess is that Florida would have more coverage (northerners and spring training), LA less (b/c it's LA)
Agreed.
Plus the Marlins are getting some good press for a change -- and please oh please build that new stadium by the Orange Bowl! -- so that might be a factor too.
In any case, I used the term "some bad play outside of Boston" (or something along those lines). If I gave the impression it was everywhere or pervasive, that wasn't my intent.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 02:31 PM
Well, when they signed Jason Giambi, a player who some had guessed used steroids, they took the word "steroids" out of the contract and lied about it before deciding that they were digging themselves into a hole.
I think having "any illegal substances and substances detimental to health" do include steroids and that WAS/IS in the contract.
yanksphan
02-20-05, 02:32 PM
Did they or did they not remove the word "steroids" from the contract?
I never said they encouraged steroids, but rather didn't discourage it. There's a difference.
You twisted the facts to support your arguement.
YankeePride1967
02-20-05, 02:32 PM
The incredible quantity of Sox players who have spoken out is 4....just so you know, and yes, I'm not including Arroyo or Tek's statements because neither of them said anything even remotely insulting toward A-Rod or NY.
I wouldn't call 4 an incredible quantity....it probably seems like more since every time anyone says anything there is a 10 page thread, but that's really not that much.
And that's 4 times the number of Yankees saying anything.
NYYBombshell
02-20-05, 02:33 PM
This quote should be taped up in the Sox locker room.
"He who flings mud, loses a lot of ground." - unknown
And included strong language that banned all illegal drugs (that would be inclusive of steroids) in Giambi's contract. Lon Tross, the Yankee attorney who handles the language traded one word for a more restrictive covenant. People are trying to spin this in a way that would imlpy a conspiracy on the part of the Yankee organization when in fact this decision was made in a real time by two parties negotiating contract language and with the Yankees getting maximum prortection.
It's not odd in any way that they originally had steroids in the contract, then took it out and then lied about it? Generally, when someone lies, they are trying to hide something.
Could they include both steroids and illegal drugs?
cubswin
02-20-05, 02:33 PM
..Who cares what he likes or doesn't like.
apparently a number of Yankees fans? :)
ring403
02-20-05, 02:33 PM
It's pretty clear that this thread has run it's course. I don't see the value in keeping it open any longer.
Let's move on, folks.
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