View Full Version : Greatest Player Who Never Was
Slippery Elm
04-26-01, 11:46 PM
Who were the players of great promise whose careers were cut short by accident, injury, or circumstance??
Remember Brien Taylor, the Yankee pitching phenom, who, after being signed for a huge bonus destroyed his shoulder in a fight?
Ken Hubbs. Cub infielder killed in a plane crash in 1962.
Tony Conigliaro of the Red Sox, beaned and almost killed in 1967.
The Angels' Lyman Bostock who was shot dead.
Pete Reiser, the Brooklyn Dodgers' great hitter who kept running into walls and truncated his career.
Urban Shocker of the 1927 Yankees. A fine starting pitcher who died a year later of a bad heart.
Monte Stratton, the good White Sox' pitcher who shot his own leg off in a hunting accident, and later pitched an exhibition game with a wooden leg in the Texas League.
Larry Hisle of the Twins. A slugger in the AL. He threw a routine flyball into the infield once and destroyed his shoulder ending his career.
Bobby Valentine was never the same after wrecking his knee running into a wall.
Dickie Thon, J.R. Richard, and Herb Score also come to mind. Thurman Munson too.
Anyone care to add some names?
SanFrANSKY
04-27-01, 01:43 AM
Well Elm, this is a very original post but don't you think this is just a little bit morbid? Recalling the coulda-woulda-shoulda beens is painful enough without having to relive their tragedies in writing.
Yankees Empire
04-27-01, 12:32 PM
Roy Hobbs.
Slippery Elm
04-27-01, 06:13 PM
Roy Hobbs? That's funny.
Speaking of another BB movie, in "Field of Dreams" (which I liked) what a joke to see them show Joe Jackson as a righthanded hitter.
"Morbid"??? You want "morbid" read the defeatist posts about the Yankees on the other forum!
Better to be in the Baseball Encyclopedia even for one game than not be there at all - ask Moonlight Graham.
Mark "The Bird" Fidrych.
In 1976 he won 19 games for the Tigers and the Rookie of the Year award. He used to talk to the ball before he'd throw a pitch. After his rookie year he injured his arm and was never close to being the same pitcher.
Slippery Elm
04-27-01, 08:29 PM
How'd I forget him?!
seahorse
04-27-01, 08:57 PM
Bobby Flanagan. His father sent him to engineering school. :lol:
# 21 Forever
04-28-01, 12:29 PM
Thurmon Munson with out a doubt!
Shooty Babbitt, who played a mean 2B for the A's in 81-82.
"Super Joe" Charboneau
They were writing songs in Cleveland about "Super Joe" when he was the 1980 AL Rookie of the Year (.289, 23 HR, 87 RBI). Then came one of the greatest downfalls in player history. He was sent down halfway through 1981 after hitting only .208. He underwent two back operations but never fully recuperated, and was released by the Indians' AA Buffalo affiliate in May 1983 after giving fans an obscene salute. A "flake" who would dye his hair exotic colors (or shave it off entirely), Charboneau impressed his teammates by opening beer bottles with an eye socket muscle.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/baseball/bol/ballplayers/C/Charboneau_Joe.html
Bluesexy's daddy
04-29-01, 12:19 PM
I would say that Munson was great but does not qualify as "never was". He did in fact show us his greatness albeit for too few seasons because of that jet crash.
We would almost need an entire seperate poll for flash in the pan pitchers. So many ptichers have seemed to be on their way to winning 250+ games, but in that particular profession injuries can cut them down at any moment (even more so than for players at other positions).
We could also have poll for "if it weren't for the addictions". Daryl Strawberry, Vida Blue etc etc etc.
Clint Hartung was another player who was supposed to be better than Babe Ruth, but never panned out. Bob Porterfield should have been a great pitcher but never was the same after a beaning. I still remember seeing him hit. I cut school to watch that game on TV. Our own Zim was a great prospect who never was as great as he could have been after his beaning. Pete Reiser could have really made an impact on the game, if he had not run into one too many walls.
Bulldog
04-30-01, 04:56 AM
Smokin Joe Wood
Slippery Elm
04-30-01, 11:12 AM
Smokey Joe Wood is a good example, although one can't exactly say he "never was". He was a great pitcher until and including 1915, when, as I recall, his shoulder went.
Wood didn't quit. He played through the 1922 season, for Cleveland, as a HITTER, and did well.
HerbieLee20
10-22-07, 03:00 PM
The Undisputed Greatest Player Who Never Was: Mets' phenom pitching prospect Sidd Finch, he of the 168 mph fastabll, circa 1985.
Yankeeah
10-22-07, 03:06 PM
I think this was the original thread ever posted on NYYFans
The Undisputed Greatest Player Who Never Was: Mets' phenom pitching prospect Sidd Finch, he of the 168 mph fastabll, circa 1985.
You beat me to it. The best ever SI April Fools issue.
I also quite liked Pedro Soriano of the Tribe back in '87.
Yanks21
10-22-07, 03:12 PM
Ruben Mateo was supposedly poised for superstardom with Texas. First he blew out a knee. Then he broke his leg while trying to beat out a grounder...
Jeff Allison was a high school phenom and first round bonus baby with Florida who chose heroin over his career...
cajunyankee
10-22-07, 03:26 PM
John Elway
Cambridge
10-22-07, 03:30 PM
John Elway
Drew Henson.
RhodyYanksFan
10-22-07, 03:30 PM
Cy Young....best pitcher to never win the Cy Young Award.
How on earth did this one get revived? :confused: Slippery Elm was last heard from in '03. I thought he was RO'd.
Stashed_in_the_South
10-22-07, 04:07 PM
John Malangone.
Read about him in CIgar Magazine. (Spring '07 issue). "Best Baseball Player (you've never heard of)"
He was raised in Brooklyn. He accidentally killed his uncle in a bizarre accident when he was 7 years old. He was treated horribly by his family and neighborhood, but became a superb baseball player.
The Yankees called him up a couple times, but he was so phobic- literally scared so much that he was unable to play in New York, and despite his raw talent never played in the majors.
A documentary about his life "Long Road Home (http://www.baristanet.com/2006/08/thrill_seekers_12.php)" was made by Bruce Spiegel for CBS a few years ago. He was in the Yanks' minor league system from 1951-1959.
"Documentary Film: Long Road Home. A must for baseball fansthis weekend: a powerful documentary on the life of John Malangone, who was on his way to becoming Yogi Berra's successor as Yankee catcher in late 1950s, until a terrible secret unraveled his career.
John Malangone is probably the best baseball player the world has never heard of. His story spans five decades, beginning in the back alleys of East Harlem, where he grew up in the vibrant world that included gangsters and hustlers. It’s a world that no longer exists, but comes to life in this film, by award winning documentary filmmaker Bruce Spiegel, Baristanet friend and Teaneck resident. Yogi Berra Museum and Learning Center. 3:30 p.m. - 5 p.m. Museum admission $6/$4."
"The Straw"
10-22-07, 04:12 PM
Munson played 11 years and won
ROY
MVP
7 time All Star
3 Gold Gloves
He does not belong in this conversation.
CallOfTheCrow
10-22-07, 04:19 PM
Rick "The Wild Thing" Vaughn.
HerbieLee20
10-22-07, 05:40 PM
How on earth did this one get revived? :confused: Slippery Elm was last heard from in '03. I thought he was RO'd.
Oops, think I'm guilty, 'cause his post was the one before mine. I found it while posting in the Greatest Defensive Player thread. It's right there on the bottom of that thread's main page in "Similiar Threads." Apologies in case bumping ancient topics is frowned upon. :) (Dang, 2001?!) Didn't even notice dates on there, but will look from now on.
SoCal Pinstriper
10-22-07, 05:52 PM
Great Thread Idea. Wrong Forum
BTW: My vote goes to Prior/Wood
fredgmuggs
10-22-07, 05:58 PM
Great Thread Idea. Wrong ForumIt took you 6 and a 1/2 years to notice that?
Casey37
10-22-07, 06:13 PM
In the mid 70's, the Yankees had Don Gullett, a very talented pitcher whose career was cut short when he blew out his arm. Ahhh.... what coulda been.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gulledo01.shtml
Oops, think I'm guilty, 'cause his post was the one before mine. I found it while posting in the Greatest Defensive Player thread. It's right there on the bottom of that thread's main page in "Similiar Threads." Apologies in case bumping ancient topics is frowned upon. :) (Dang, 2001?!) Didn't even notice dates on there, but will look from now on.No, no, absolutely nothing wrong with it, it's a good topic! I was just wondering! :cool:
SoCal Pinstriper
10-22-07, 07:02 PM
It took you 6 and a 1/2 years to notice that?I am definetly not in midseason form.
ymike673
10-23-07, 12:49 PM
The Dodgers brought up a pitcher named Karl Spooner in Sept. of 1955 and he struck out something like 12-14 batters in a couple of games. He was tabed a "Can't miss" propect for 1956 but he never lived up to his promise.
Does Johnny Ellis and Ron Blomberg belong on this list?
johnnyyankee
10-23-07, 02:34 PM
How about two sports....Bo Jackson.
Edit: Wow, I just looked him up. I didn't realise that he did play for 8 yrs. I didn't think he got that many yrs. in.
YanksFan1992
10-23-07, 03:00 PM
Ryan Anderson is one as well in my opinion
penguin4
10-28-07, 06:35 PM
Holy cow... Slippery Elm? That takes me waaaaaaay back.
What about John Paciorek? Had a perfect day at the plate in his ML debut, but back problems led to his never appearing in a game again.
Or J.R. Richard, who was on his way to great things when he suffered that stroke.
And Steve Olin, the Indians' next great closer, who was decapitated (I think) during that spring training boating accident in '93.
One could even make an argument for Earle Combs, despite getting into the HOF... his career ended several years prematurely when he fractured his skull running into a wall, pre-padding.
montrealer
10-28-07, 07:52 PM
"Shoeless Joe"
I wouldn't consider Jackie Jensen a "never was," but I suspect us oldtimers would agree we never saw his true potential.
fredgmuggs
10-30-07, 04:50 PM
Gil Patterson. A great game against the Red Sox that hinted of his unlimited pitching potential and then an arm injury the next spring and an end to a career that never had a chance to begin.
That still hurts because I thought he was going to be great.
Edit: wasn't there a guy on the Brooklyn Dodgers named Karl Spooner who also had some great games near the end of the season only to hurt his arm and never be the same after that?
hardrain
10-30-07, 09:57 PM
Steve Dalkowski
hellonewman
10-31-07, 12:05 AM
Louis Sockalexis:
http://www.baseballreliquary.org/story_of_sockalexis.htm
Austin McHenry:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Austin_McHenry
hellonewman
10-31-07, 12:14 AM
All of the Mets' "Generation K" pitchers except Isringhausen.
jimmyclark
10-31-07, 10:39 AM
Tim Leary, an early 1980s Mets prospect who had his arm blown out by pitching in a cold day by a manager who persuaded Mets GM Frank Cashen he was ready for the bigs to save his job. The manager? Joe Torre.
Joe Garagiola might have had a very good career if he didn't get in a collision with Jackie Robinson in 1950.
Steve Dalbowski if he Earl Weaver as a minor league manager earlier.
TongueStripes
11-03-07, 10:25 PM
Steve Blass
Dave Visbeck
11-04-07, 11:45 AM
I think I've got one. http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/char124.gif
He's a left-handed pitcher that pitched 89.1 inning in his brief career ... allowing 65 hits, walking 23 and striking out 100 batters ... while winning 6 games and losing only 1 ... and he also had 9 saves. His WHIP stands at 0.985. Career ERA under 3.50.
During one stretch in time where he had appeared in mostly a relief roll ... from August 1 - September 20 ... a time span that saw him pitch twenty-one games in total, with one game being a start -- he put up some interesting numbers. First off, he pitched 32 innings in that time. He finished 7 of the games and had 6 saves -- but had no wins or losses. He had given up 3 earned runs in his one brief start that lasted 2.1 innings against Philadelphia ... but as for the rest of the innings he had pitched in relief, his ERA for those other twenty games was a sparkling 1.82.
In the 32 innings he pitched he had given up just 23 hits total. Two of the hits were long balls with one being hit by another young player of that time that had hit his first home run off this pitcher ... and his 18th career home run in that game -- Pete Rose. The lefty pitcher walked 10 batters in his 32 innings pitched ... but what really stands out in these innings pitched was how many batters the 21-year old pitcher had struck-out. That total strikeout count amounted to a grand total of 47! In the twenty-one games he had pitched during that stretch in time that lasted a little over a month and a half in length ... only in one game did he not get a strikeout ... because he had only faced one batter in that one game, the pinch-hitting machine -- Manny Mota.
I guess that all that can be said about having let Mota ruin this young pitcher's strike-out pitching run that I've told you about is just ... saru mo ki kara ochiru! ;)
fredgmuggs
11-04-07, 11:50 AM
Gil Patterson. A great game against the Red Sox that hinted of his unlimited pitching potential and then an arm injury the next spring and an end to a career that never had a chance to begin.
That still hurts because I thought he was going to be great.
Edit: wasn't there a guy on the Brooklyn Dodgers named Karl Spooner who also had some great games near the end of the season only to hurt his arm and never be the same after that?
I found this entry for Karl Spooner from wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Spooner
Spooner was considered by many in Major League Baseball to be the next superstar after his stellar rookie year of 1954. Although he only started two games on the mound for the Dodgers, Spooner, compiled two complete game shutouts, throwing all 18 innings, giving up 7 total hits and no runs. Spooner struck out the very first six batters he faced that year, a record later tied in 1962 by Pete Richert.
However, during Spring Training prior to the 1955 season, Spooner entered a game without warming up properly. A severe arm injury was the result, and Spooner would only appear in 29 more games in his career.
He also had 27 strike outs in 18 innings in his first two big league games.
JavyVazquezIsSick
11-05-07, 02:12 PM
Billy Beane
Billy Beane
That's really one to ponder. I've read quite a bit about B. Beane, and still wonder why he wasn't at least an average major leaguer, if not a superstar. I suppose he wonders himself. He seemed to have "Can't miss" stamped all over him in his early years.
It's fun to see him in action, successfully, as GM for the nearby Oakland A's.
Dave Visbeck
11-06-07, 01:21 PM
I think I've got one. http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/char124.gif
He's a left-handed pitcher that pitched 89.1 inning in his brief career ... allowing 65 hits, walking 23 and striking out 100 batters ... while winning 6 games and losing only 1 ... and he also had 9 saves. His WHIP stands at 0.985. Career ERA under 3.50.
During one stretch in time where he had appeared in mostly a relief roll ... from August 1 - September 20 ... a time span that saw him pitch twenty-one games in total, with one game being a start -- he put up some interesting numbers. First off, he pitched 32 innings in that time. He finished 7 of the games and had 6 saves -- but had no wins or losses. He had given up 3 earned runs in his one brief start that lasted 2.1 innings against Philadelphia ... but as for the rest of the innings he had pitched in relief, his ERA for those other twenty games was a sparkling 1.82.
In the 32 innings he pitched he had given up just 23 hits total. Two of the hits were long balls with one being hit by another young player of that time that had hit his first home run off this pitcher ... and his 18th career home run in that game -- Pete Rose. The lefty pitcher walked 10 batters in his 32 innings pitched ... but what really stands out in these innings pitched was how many batters the 21-year old pitcher had struck-out. That total strikeout count amounted to a grand total of 47! In the twenty-one games he had pitched during that stretch in time that lasted a little over a month and a half in length ... only in one game did he not get a strikeout ... because he had only faced one batter in that one game, the pinch-hitting machine -- Manny Mota.
I guess that all that can be said about having let Mota ruin this young pitcher's strike-out pitching run that I've told you about is just ... saru mo ki kara ochiru! ;)
Oops ... I forgot to mention the name of this first Japanese born, (during World War II) Major League ballplayer ... and his name is Masanori Murakami.:)
Jetfanmack
11-06-07, 01:57 PM
Rick Ankiel?
Rick Ankiel?
Seems like Rick still has a chance to pull it out, hope he does. Seems like a guy who could go either way.
This last summer's publicity regarding chemicals probably hasn't helped him any.
Dave Visbeck
11-06-07, 11:26 PM
Who were the players of great promise whose careers were cut short by accident, injury, or circumstance??
Remember Brien Taylor, the Yankee pitching phenom, who, after being signed for a huge bonus destroyed his shoulder in a fight?
Ken Hubbs. Cub infielder killed in a plane crash in 1962.
Tony Conigliaro of the Red Sox, beaned and almost killed in 1967.
The Angels' Lyman Bostock who was shot dead.
Pete Reiser, the Brooklyn Dodgers' great hitter who kept running into walls and truncated his career.
Urban Shocker of the 1927 Yankees. A fine starting pitcher who died a year later of a bad heart.
Monte Stratton, the good White Sox' pitcher who shot his own leg off in a hunting accident, and later pitched an exhibition game with a wooden leg in the Texas League.
Larry Hisle of the Twins. A slugger in the AL. He threw a routine flyball into the infield once and destroyed his shoulder ending his career.
Bobby Valentine was never the same after wrecking his knee running into a wall.
Dickie Thon, J.R. Richard, and Herb Score also come to mind. Thurman Munson too.
Anyone care to add some names?
Josh Hamilton
He seemed to have thrown everything away -- dealing with his personal demons ... but just maybe he'll stay on track now.
penguin4
11-07-07, 08:43 AM
I know Mr. Elm was booted some time ago, but I sort of disagree with his assessment that Shocker was a "never was". True, he had heart problems that ended his career sooner than it probably would've otherwise, but he was 38 years old at the time, and had nine excellent years in a 12- or 13-year career; that's more than a lot of players (including Addie Joss -- would one call him a "never was" because he only pitched eight seasons despite making the HOF?). I think Shocker suffered by the times in which he pitched -- he hit his stride right at the height of the Babe Ruth/slugger era, and even when he was traded to the Yankees and went 18-6 with an ERA under 3.00 he was still only the third-best pitcher on the 1927 team. And because he passed on he didn't have the advantages of Waite Hoyt or Herb Pennock to stick around the game and make friends and garner support to get him in the HOF.
hellonewman
11-08-07, 10:33 PM
Steve BlassSteve Blass had several good years before he lost home plate and pitched 2 complete game victories in the Pirates' 1971 World Series win. He's anything but a never-was.
Changes
11-10-07, 09:38 PM
Great Thread Idea. Wrong Forum
BTW: My vote goes to Prior/Wood
In that case Eric Davis/Darryl Strawberry
Huktonfonix
11-18-07, 07:19 PM
I'm going to go slightly off-topic here. What about the players who became superstars but still never achieved their true potential?
The two most obvious for me being Mantle and Griffey Jr.
As strange as it seems to say a pair of guys who have over 1100 homers between them are examples of wasted talent, it's undeniable that both could have had even more remarkable careers if they took better care of their bodies and didn't suffer so many leg problems.
CalYankeeFan
11-18-07, 09:06 PM
Bubba Crosby.
sweet_lou_14
11-18-07, 09:58 PM
How about two sports....Bo Jackson.
Edit: Wow, I just looked him up. I didn't realise that he did play for 8 yrs. I didn't think he got that many yrs. in.
He was still going to get my vote.
sweet_lou_14
11-18-07, 10:02 PM
I'm going to go slightly off-topic here. What about the players who became superstars but still never achieved their true potential?
The two most obvious for me being Mantle and Griffey Jr.
As strange as it seems to say a pair of guys who have over 1100 homers between them are examples of wasted talent, it's undeniable that both could have had even more remarkable careers if they took better care of their bodies and didn't suffer so many leg problems.
If we're talking along these lines, then you have to throw Donnie Baseball in there. That freak back injury around 1990 completely changed his career and ended his chances at the HOF.
(And no I don't think Mattingly's "true potential" was anywhere near Mantle's or Griffey's but still it's easy to forget that for a couple of years he was the best player in the game.)
penguin4
11-18-07, 10:31 PM
Roger Maris. Just think of the numbers he could've put up if he didn't spend more time injured than healthy after 1962. Probably would've still batted about .260, but everything else...
Michaels07
11-18-07, 11:16 PM
Bob Michaels
BxBomber44
11-19-07, 01:39 AM
Roger Maris. Just think of the numbers he could've put up if he didn't spend more time injured than healthy after 1962. Probably would've still batted about .260, but everything else...
We can say the same thing about the Mick. 2 Unforgettable players that will always be my favorite (b/c of my dad).
A modern one could be Griffey with all the injuries?
Dave Visbeck
11-19-07, 03:11 AM
We can say the same thing about the Mick. 2 Unforgettable players that will always be my favorite (b/c of my dad).
A modern one could be Griffey with all the injuries?
HOF'er for sure someday with what he's done. (Griffey)
penguin4
11-19-07, 06:17 AM
We can say the same thing about the Mick. 2 Unforgettable players that will always be my favorite (b/c of my dad).
A modern one could be Griffey with all the injuries?Yes. (Hence sweet_lou's post above...;))
Huktonfonix
11-19-07, 11:34 AM
HOF'er for sure someday with what he's done. (Griffey)
Griffey (and obviously Mantle) are both HOF'ers. Still, they should have done so much more.
DaveRoberts
11-19-07, 02:11 PM
Steve Nebraska. Such great potential but couldn't get his head straight.
penguin4
11-19-07, 02:22 PM
Steve Nebraska. Such great potential but couldn't get his head straight.Hey, he pitched a 27K, 81-pitch perfect game in the World Series. That's not *wholly* "never was". :lol:
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.7 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
0