View Full Version : Clemens to return if Beltran resigns.
Thrillhouse
12-31-04, 01:16 PM
From http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spbeltran314100779dec31,0,1364862.story?coll=ny-sports-print
"Houston, an aggressive pursuer all offseason, no longer is seen as a longshot in the derby for Beltran. A confidant of Roger Clemens said the National League Cy Young Award winner is telling friends he almost certainly will return to pitch if Beltran re-signs, which might explain in part why Astros owner Drayton McLane is chasing Beltran so hard."
Dam Clemens, making things harder for us in yet another offseason.
Evil Empire
12-31-04, 01:24 PM
From http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spbeltran314100779dec31,0,1364862.story?coll=ny-sports-print
"Houston, an aggressive pursuer all offseason, no longer is seen as a longshot in the derby for Beltran. A confidant of Roger Clemens said the National League Cy Young Award winner is telling friends he almost certainly will return to pitch if Beltran re-signs, which might explain in part why Astros owner Drayton McLane is chasing Beltran so hard."
Dam Clemens, making things harder for us in yet another offseason.
Damn it Clemens, your screwing us for the second time
C'est la vie. If Beltran is gonna let this affect his decision...signing a 7 year deal for 1 year that Clemens will pitch...what can you do?
My guess is that it has no effect on Beltran.
whalers
12-31-04, 01:32 PM
From http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spbeltran314100779dec31,0,1364862.story?coll=ny-sports-print
"Houston, an aggressive pursuer all offseason, no longer is seen as a longshot in the derby for Beltran. A confidant of Roger Clemens said the National League Cy Young Award winner is telling friends he almost certainly will return to pitch if Beltran re-signs, which might explain in part why Astros owner Drayton McLane is chasing Beltran so hard."
Dam Clemens, making things harder for us in yet another offseason.
Even if Clemens does come back next year that Astros still arent the perenial winners that the Yankees are and that has been one of Beltrans biggest desires this whole offseason. Check out the latest article at mlb.com about beltran and you will see the direct quote stating the biggest concern is signing with that team that is year in year out winner.
Damn you Clemens; we're still paying you!!! :argh:
MattUNC2003
12-31-04, 01:59 PM
It would be fricken amazing if by some totally awesome and highly unlikely twist of fate that if the Yanks sign Beltran, Clemens follows him back into pinstripes.
Imagine a rotation that would have:
1 - Johnson
2 - Clemens
3 - Moose
4 - Pavano
5 - Wright
6/Long reliever/trade bait - Brown
tabarnes19
12-31-04, 02:08 PM
Can't happen he accepted arbitration by the Astros. So essentially he is considered signed. It is either the 'Stros or no one.
Evil Empire
12-31-04, 02:49 PM
It would be fricken amazing if by some totally awesome and highly unlikely twist of fate that if the Yanks sign Beltran, Clemens follows him back into pinstripes.
Imagine a rotation that would have:
1 - Johnson
2 - Clemens
3 - Moose
4 - Pavano
5 - Wright
6/Long reliever/trade bait - Brown
Well then Pettitte would demand a trade to follow Clemens, and we throw Wright in the Pen and trade Brown. :cool:
He doesn't care. Remember when McGwire was gonna personally deliver Giambi to the Cardinals? Player's dont give a crap about that stuff.
He doesn't care. Remember when McGwire was gonna personally deliver Giambi to the Cardinals? Player's dont give a crap about that stuff.Agreed. I don't think a 28 year old Beltran cares too much about a 42 year old Clemens coming back to pitch one season. If he's signing a 6 year deal, he should be looking long term. If Beltran is serious about winning, he'd be a fool to sign in Houston. Biggio and Bagwell are on their last legs and 3 of the starting 8 offensive players are Everett, Ensberg and Ausmus.
Bernie Inferno
12-31-04, 03:12 PM
Agreed. I don't think a 28 year old Beltran cares too much about a 42 year old Clemens coming back to pitch one season. If he's signing a 6 year deal, he should be looking long term. If Beltran is serious about winning, he'd be a fool to sign in Houston. Biggio and Bagwell are on their last legs and 3 of the starting 8 offensive players are Everett, Ensberg and Ausmus.
Ain't that the truth?
He doesn't care. Remember when McGwire was gonna personally deliver Giambi to the Cardinals? Player's dont give a crap about that stuff.
Damn him for failing...
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-31-04, 03:48 PM
Clemens never dissapoints in reinforcing my idea that he is an asshole....
yankee maniac
12-31-04, 04:26 PM
What happened to Clemen's concern that his mother will be alive to see him in the Hall of Fame?
Clemens is up for arbitration, I wonder what kind of money he will get, certainly a hell of a lot more than last year. His paycheck and Beltrans would have to be in the $30 mil area. i thought Houston was a small market team!
Clemens is up for arbitration, I wonder what kind of money he will get, certainly a hell of a lot more than last year. His paycheck and Beltrans would have to be in the $30 mil area. i thought Houston was a small market team!
Well, Clemens can avoid actual arbitration by signing a one-year deal at whatever amount.
As much as we joke about the resign, re-sign thing I actually interpreted the topic to be that if Beltran left Clemens would come back to make the fans feel better or something similar.
Mattpat11
12-31-04, 06:41 PM
What happened to Clemen's concern that his mother will be alive to see him in the Hall of Fame?
Ol Rog doesn't exactly have a sparkling record in the "telling the truth" or "keeping your word" departments.
Yogi's Boy
12-31-04, 07:24 PM
The Texas Con Man Barks Again !
We all know that his word is 'gold'!
:nopity:
Casey37
12-31-04, 07:35 PM
What is it with Clemens? Dude, can’t you just retire and ride into the sunset? :wtf:
bagger015
12-31-04, 10:38 PM
He doesn't care. Remember when McGwire was gonna personally deliver Giambi to the Cardinals? Player's dont give a crap about that stuff.
I wish Mark had done a better job of convincing Jason.........:uhh: :P
Mattpat11
12-31-04, 11:16 PM
What is it with Clemens? Dude, can’t you just retire and ride into the sunset? :wtf:
They're going to have to drag him kicking and screaming. Or get him to write it in blood or something.
silverdsl
01-01-05, 10:59 AM
Seems to me that yet again Clemens really doesn't want to retire. He should stop making whether or not he will retire a topic of conversation because the urge to pitch is probably still too strong for him to really accept the idea of not playing anymore. If that's the case he should just keep pitching until he is no longer physically able to and not let what other players do influence his decision.
-Deborah
djhitman01
01-01-05, 11:19 AM
Lol, don't worry, we've all seen this from Roger before. I have a feeling he's gonna be pitching again wether or not Beltran is there or not.
twentyquestions
01-01-05, 11:41 AM
drama queen
Thrillhouse
01-01-05, 11:52 AM
All I can say about Clemens retirement is ...... WOLF WOLF!!!
(the boy who cried wolf, if you didnt get it)
Sille Skrub
01-01-05, 12:27 PM
C'est la vie. If Beltran is gonna let this affect his decision...signing a 7 year deal for 1 year that Clemens will pitch...what can you do?
My guess is that it has no effect on Beltran.
I think you are missing the point. It isn't that Beltran will sign for less because of Roger being there.... it is that Houston's mgmt. will be willing to pay a little more for Beltran IF it means that it would result in getting Beltran and Clemens...
ring403
01-01-05, 12:39 PM
Translation: Roger wants attention.
StaceyRosie
01-01-05, 12:57 PM
Translation: Roger wants attention.
Where's Andy? Andy tame your boy.
PippyPinstripes
01-01-05, 01:00 PM
Why does he have to be jerky? Gahhhhddddd!
I don't think it will affect anything either way, but jesus, Rocket, just cut it out!
yarosh25
01-01-05, 01:35 PM
I don't know why everybody is killing Clemens. At 42, he doesn't want to come back and pitch for a non-playoff contender. Ofcourse he's gonna tell his friends he'll come back if Beltran comes back. He loved atmosphere in Houston last year, that's his hometown. Like many said before me in the thread, Clemens for 1 year can't influence beltran's decision on a 6 or 7 year deal.
ring403
01-01-05, 01:52 PM
I don't know why everybody is killing Clemens. At 42, he doesn't want to come back and pitch for a non-playoff contender.
Nice message for his Astros teammates:
"You guys aren't good enough without Carlos Beltran. Hometown hero or not, if Beltran isn't here, I'd rather retire than waste my time playing with you losers.
Oh, and by the way, the new Hummers are out. If a black one with a sunroof was to show up in my driveway, it might help talk me into un-retiring."
PippyPinstripes
01-01-05, 01:59 PM
Whatever Clemens' intentions are, it just comes across as cockblocking.
Hitman23
01-01-05, 02:43 PM
What is it with Clemens? Dude, can’t you just retire and ride into the sunset? :wtf:Why should he?
I don't get why so many people still have a chip on their shoulder. Yeah he mislead the Yanks but get over it. The guy is an incredible pitcher.
Thrillhouse
01-01-05, 04:01 PM
I would love for Clemens to return. But I mean cmon, quit with the gimacks to return. Like last year with the hummer from the radio station. And this year luring Beltran after saying he was 99% retired. Hes coming back no matter what. Who wins the Cy Young, 18 wins, 2.sumthing ERA, and the brink of the World Series. Ya i'd retire after that year...... NOT.
Johnny O
01-01-05, 05:40 PM
I would love for Clemens to return. But I mean cmon, quit with the gimacks to return. Like last year with the hummer from the radio station. And this year luring Beltran after saying he was 99% retired. Hes coming back no matter what. Who wins the Cy Young, 18 wins, 2.sumthing ERA, and the brink of the World Series. Ya i'd retire after that year...... NOT.
Honestly, you don't know what's going on in his head. He is very likely legitimatley conflicted, he probably never expected to pitch so well this late in his career, but he still is great and he wants to spend time with his family. I think it would be a difficult decision for anyone, and I'm sure he has additional pressure for members of his community who watched him bring Houston so close to the WS last year.
I also do hope he does return, the guy is just so great.
ring403
01-01-05, 05:59 PM
I don't get why so many people still have a chip on their shoulder. Yeah he mislead the Yanks but get over it. The guy is an incredible pitcher.
I don't see where anyone implied that he wasn't a great pitcher.
Hitman23
01-01-05, 06:17 PM
I don't see where anyone implied that he wasn't a great pitcher.But everyone wants him to retire? Why should he? He changed his mind. Sure it sucked for the yanks but he didn't owe them anything. He helped us win 2 championships. Mission complete. If the guy wants to pitch, he can. Anywhere he wants.
yarosh25
01-01-05, 06:38 PM
Nice message for his Astros teammates:
"You guys aren't good enough without Carlos Beltran. Hometown hero or not, if Beltran isn't here, I'd rather retire than waste my time playing with you losers.
Oh, and by the way, the new Hummers are out. If a black one with a sunroof was to show up in my driveway, it might help talk me into un-retiring."
LOL, that's funny. I see you got no love for the guy.
Mattpat11
01-01-05, 06:55 PM
Translation: Roger wants attention. I really think that was the whole motivation behind the fake retirement tour. Clemens, while still a great pitcher, had more or less become *just* a very good pitcher. He was no longer one of the top promoted stars in the league. He found a way to get his attention.
Sure it sucked for the yanks but he didn't owe them anything.
He didn't have to lie to us for a year either.
Hitman23
01-01-05, 06:57 PM
He didn't have to lie to us for a year either.Is it lying or changing his mind?
ring403
01-01-05, 07:00 PM
But everyone wants him to retire? Why should he? He changed his mind. Sure it sucked for the yanks but he didn't owe them anything. He helped us win 2 championships. Mission complete. If the guy wants to pitch, he can. Anywhere he wants.
I think people would rather him shut his yap and pitch, or retire, and spare us the drama. How is making a statement about not retiring if the Astros sign Beltran, in any way, helpful to his team?
Clemens is a great pitcher, but he doesn't always put alot of thought into what he says, and has an insatiable need for attention, (much like a friend of his ;) ).
Hitman23
01-01-05, 07:02 PM
I think people would rather him shut his yap and pitch, or retire, and spare us the drama. How is making a statement about not retiring if the Astros sign Beltran, in any way, helpful to his team?
Clemens is a great pitcher, but he doesn't always put alot of thought into what he says, and has an insatiable need for attention, (much like a friend of his ;) ).Why are Yankee fans happy about RJ after the crap he pulled with the D-Backs?
It's a double standard. Clemens doesn't pitch here anymore, so we all see it through Yankee goggles.
BTW - I agree he should shut his mouth. But Clemens has diarhea of the mouth, we all know that.
Mattpat11
01-01-05, 07:10 PM
Is it lying or changing his mind?
It depends on whether or not you believe he ever intended to retire. Personally, I don't think he did.
Regardless, though, once you get to the point of the opposing team coming out of the dugout to give you a standing ovation during the World Series, you've passed the point of no return. Your decission has been made for you.
Hitman23
01-01-05, 07:16 PM
It depends on whether or not you believe he ever intended to retire. Personally, I don't think he did.I honestly believed he did intend to, even up to the end of the year. Whether it was Houston, or just realizing he'd miss the game, he changed his mind. IMO.
Regardless, though, once you get to the point of the opposing team coming out of the dugout to give you a standing ovation during the World Series, you've passed the point of no return. Your decission has been made for you.I agree it's a touchy situation. But if you are him, and you are as good as he is, and you have a chance to pitch for your home town team, wouldn't you do it? He shut everyone up with the year he had. I dunno. I'm upset that the Yanks got screwed out of the deal, but if I'm him, I might do the same thing.
ring403
01-01-05, 07:21 PM
Why are Yankee fans happy about RJ after the crap he pulled with the D-Backs?
It's a double standard. Clemens doesn't pitch here anymore, so we all see it through Yankee goggles.
BTW - I agree he should shut his mouth. But Clemens has diarhea of the mouth, we all know that.
As far as I know, all RJ did was request a trade, which his team could have denied at any time. He wasn't particularly happy to be on the league's worst team last season, when he had been told when he signed with them, that they would spend the necessary money to compete for a World Series every year. Despite his frustration, he still worked his ass off, and put together a performance that should have won him another Cy Young award (which is another issue altogether).
I don't really have an issue with Clemens, other than the off the field issues I already mentioned. I wouldn't have defended his comments if he was still a Yankee, just like I never defended David Wells' many dumb comments and actions while he was here.
Clemens should pitch as long as he wants to and is able to.
Hitman23
01-01-05, 07:29 PM
okay so I guess we agree more then we initially thought. I'm glad you explained that. :cool:
What RJ has said and done may not be on the same level, but it is in the same ballpark. Even though he pitched his ass off, he still gave up on his team and team mates.
Mattpat11
01-01-05, 08:10 PM
I agree it's a touchy situation. But if you are him, and you are as good as he is, and you have a chance to pitch for your home town team, wouldn't you do it? .
I don't think I would. If I was Roger Clemens, and the same events of 03 happened to me, at the end of the year I would feel obligated to keep my word, no matter what. I just don't think I could have allowed myself to go on such a retirement tour and then, three months later (was it even that long) go "oh, never mind". At least most people who fake retire have the common courtesy to wait out a year.
sugmasterflex
01-01-05, 09:21 PM
Clemens will be back regardless.
drjeckyl
01-01-05, 09:31 PM
What is it with Clemens? Dude, can’t you just retire and ride into the sunset? :wtf:
With the deal the Astros gave him, pitching there is as close as a major leaguer will ever get to having a part time job. So, it's like being retired. :D
JavyVazquezIsSick
01-01-05, 09:52 PM
It's a double standard. Clemens doesn't pitch here anymore, so we all see it through Yankee goggles.
No, I have always thought Clemens was an asshole...
Casey37
01-01-05, 09:59 PM
So, it's like being retired. :D
.....while playing where he lives.
Does it get any better than that?
nybabygurl2
01-01-05, 10:24 PM
I don't think I would. If I was Roger Clemens, and the same events of 03 happened to me, at the end of the year I would feel obligated to keep my word, no matter what. I just don't think I could have allowed myself to go on such a retirement tour and then, three months later (was it even that long) go "oh, never mind". At least most people who fake retire have the common courtesy to wait out a year.
That is exactly how I feel about the situation. If I had stated publicly that I wanted to retire and made a big to-do out of it, I would retire just to keep from making a fool out of myself, even if I found myself wanting to come back. I wouldn't expect life away from the game for the first time in 20+ years to be an easy process no matter if I did it right then or waited another couple years. Apparently that's not how Roger sees things and its his perogative. Comes off as slightly hypocritical and a bit selfish if all those things I've read about his mother and his kids wanting him to retire are true. Whatever, though. He's not a Yankee anymore and won't be so I could care less.
As for Beltran, I'll echo what many have said--I doubt he gives a damn about Roger deciding to come back if he does. If Carlos stays in Houston, it will be because he wants to be an Astro not because he wants to be Clemens teammate for another year or so.
Hitman23
01-01-05, 10:59 PM
I don't think I would. If I was Roger Clemens, and the same events of 03 happened to me, at the end of the year I would feel obligated to keep my word, no matter what. I just don't think I could have allowed myself to go on such a retirement tour and then, three months later (was it even that long) go "oh, never mind". At least most people who fake retire have the common courtesy to wait out a year.fair enough.
Would you feel better if he gave all his going away presents back?
Mattpat11
01-01-05, 11:35 PM
fair enough.
Would you feel better if he gave all his going away presents back? I can't think of one justifiable reason for him not immediately giving them back.
It wouldn't change my opinion all that much, but at the very least he should give them back.
Hitman23
01-02-05, 12:02 AM
I can't think of one justifiable reason for him not immediately giving them back.
It wouldn't change my opinion all that much, but at the very least he should give them back.I agree. he really should have. it's the biggest problem I had with his decision. If you want to change your mind you're entitlted, but don't accept all this stuff if you do.
Yankee Bulldawg
01-02-05, 08:09 AM
i just dont see Houston having enough money to re sign Beltran
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