View Full Version : Peyton Manning
JfromJersey
11-26-04, 11:38 AM
Is this guy for real? He's doing a Bonds, or better yet, a Gretzky on the NFL record book. On a pace for 60 TDs.
PlsDontTearDownY.S.
11-26-04, 12:05 PM
It's unbelievable. And it's not like he's got the most talented receivers in the league either, just one in Harrison. He's the best QB in the game, hands down. If he was on the Jets...oh wait we have Paul Hackett so it wold be screens, dump offs and short slants all day.
cubswin
11-26-04, 12:15 PM
Well, Harrison is one of the best, and I think you may be underestimating Wayne and Stokley, though they're not in Harrison's category.
yeahimweird
11-26-04, 12:46 PM
This was me during the game yesterday: :eek:.
I think that says it all. Peyton Manning has been nothing short of incredible this season.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-26-04, 01:02 PM
You're asking if he's for real? This is simply the best thus far in a succession of GREAT seasons he's had almost for the whole time he's been in the league. He's been for real for quite some time now, and I'm thinking this might finally be his year.
JeffWeaverFan
11-26-04, 02:50 PM
He's the best QB in the league. Yes, he's even better than Chad.:)
JfromJersey
11-26-04, 03:05 PM
As a Giant fan, I hope Eli can approach Peyton. I don't expect him to be as good (although I can dream, can't I?). I'm trying to think of 2 brothers in a team sport who were both superstars. Tiki and Ronde Barber are both very good, but I wouldn't call them both HOF caliber players. In baseball, you had the DiMaggios, but although Dom was a good ballplayer, he wasn't an immortal like his brother.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-26-04, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by JeffWeaverFan
He's the best QB in the league. Yes, he's even better than Chad.:)
:eek: :uhh: :scared: :drool:
SoCal Pinstriper
11-26-04, 04:15 PM
I heard Ron Jaworski, one of the better talking heads IMO, say that the offensive coordinator for Indy sends in three plays for every down. Peyton then chooses among the three options at the line once he sees the defense. Jaworski said that this advantage was unique in football. Seems huge to me.
Too bad the defense will keep them out of the Super Bowl.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-26-04, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Socal Pinstriper
Too bad the defense will keep them out of the Super Bowl.
Not too sure about that. As long as the defense plays averagely, if that offense keeps playing up to full potential, I like their chances. They showed they could hang with the Pats until the end in Week 1, they smashed Chicago (not a stellar defense, especially minus Urlacher, but pretty good) last week, and the game against Baltimore in a few weeks should be another good indicator of this.
SoCal Pinstriper
11-26-04, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by JfromJersey
As a Giant fan, I hope Eli can approach Peyton. I don't expect him to be as good (although I can dream, can't I?). I'm trying to think of 2 brothers in a team sport who were both superstars. Please post if you get an answer. I was thinking of Jerry and Ron Kramer (60's linemen,both all stars, Jerry HOF). Ultimately, Tiki and Ronde are probably a better answer as they are more balanced.
SoCal Pinstriper
11-26-04, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
Not too sure about that. As long as the defense plays averagely, if that offense keeps playing up to full potential, I like their chances. They showed they could hang with the Pats until the end in Week 1, they smashed Chicago (not a stellar defense, especially minus Urlacher, but pretty good) last week, and the game against Baltimore in a few weeks should be another good indicator of this. I can think of teams that made it with great D and no O (85 Bears, Ravens, Panthers), but the only team that comes to mind that was all O is the Rams, and I think that their D was much better than Indy's.
SheffMVP11
11-26-04, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
Not too sure about that. As long as the defense plays averagely, if that offense keeps playing up to full potential, I like their chances. They showed they could hang with the Pats until the end in Week 1, they smashed Chicago (not a stellar defense, especially minus Urlacher, but pretty good) last week, and the game against Baltimore in a few weeks should be another good indicator of this.
I think the Pats are all that stand in their way. In a playoff game I'd put my money on Peyton over Roethlisburger.
PlsDontTearDownY.S.
11-26-04, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
Not too sure about that. As long as the defense plays averagely, if that offense keeps playing up to full potential, I like their chances. They showed they could hang with the Pats until the end in Week 1, they smashed Chicago (not a stellar defense, especially minus Urlacher, but pretty good) last week, and the game against Baltimore in a few weeks should be another good indicator of this. Their defense is garbage, I would have no faith in it if I was a Colts fan. Marino had no offense, and Peyton has no defense.
patrick.o
11-26-04, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by PlsDontTearDownY.S.
It's unbelievable. And it's not like he's got the most talented receivers in the league either, just one in Harrison.
What team would you submit has a better receiving corps? I can't think of a team in the league who can claim to be better or who wouldn't jump at the chance to have Stokley as their 3rd receiver. Harrison, Stokley, and Wayne all have over 700 yards and 8 or more TDs, and the TE duo of Clark and Pollard have a combined 11 TDs. No team in the league can compare to that kind of production, and while Peyton's a huge part of it, it takes two people to complete a pass.
JeffWeaverFan
11-26-04, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
:eek: :uhh: :scared: :drool:
I'm not that stubborn. I mean, I'm very stubborn, but not quite that stubborn.;)
IncredibleByNature
11-26-04, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by PlsDontTearDownY.S.
Their defense is garbage, I would have no faith in it if I was a Colts fan. Marino had no offense, and Peyton has no defense.
Colts fan here. I'm pretty sure I am the only Colts fan on the forums. Anyways, yeah, their defense isn't very good at all, despite the fact it has played better the past few weeks, and I still don't think they'll make it to/win the Superbowl until it's improved, but in sports, you never know. Like I said though, I'm certainly not counting on it.
BTW, yes, Peyton Manning, like Nat said, has been for real for quite some time now. :cool: Not only is he a tremendous athlete, but he seems like a great person as well. He is a lot of fun to cheer for. :)
Originally posted by IncredibleByNature
Colts fan here. I'm pretty sure I am the only Colts fan on the forums. Anyways, yeah, their defense isn't very good at all, despite the fact it has played better the past few weeks, and I still don't think they'll make it to/win the Superbowl until it's improved, but in sports, you never know. Like I said though, I'm certainly not counting on it.
BTW, yes, Peyton Manning, like Nat said, has been for real for quite some time now. :cool: Not only is he a tremendous athlete, but he seems like a great person as well. He is a lot of fun to cheer for. :)
If the Pats fart in the playoffs...Colts could get to and win the SB...
BTW...Peyton killed me in FFL yesterday...good thing he didn't throw too much to Wayne and Eddie George sucks...:D
IncredibleByNature
11-26-04, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by NYYFAN
If the Pats fart in the playoffs...Colts could get to and win the SB...
BTW...Peyton killed me in FFL yesterday...good thing he didn't throw too much to Wayne and Eddie George sucks...:D
That'd be wonderful, Mark, alas I don't see it happening. :o
deranged2005
11-26-04, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by IncredibleByNature
BTW, yes, Peyton Manning, like Nat said, has been for real for quite some time now. :cool: Not only is he a tremendous athlete, but he seems like a great person as well. He is a lot of fun to cheer for. :)
I agree 100%. He seems like a good guy, a good older brother, a real good sport, and a real leader on the team.
When he gets picked to play in the Pro Bowl, he invites his offensively line, cuz he knows they do such a good job. Nice thing to do for guys that are barely ever talked about.
BroadwayBomber55
11-27-04, 12:02 AM
Peyton Manning is puttin' up a HOF career resume in front of our eyes.
The offensive line has done a great job of protecting Peyton. Peyton Manning has a lot more weapons now other than Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James with Brandon Stokley, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Marcus Pollard.
Offensive Coordinator Tom Moore should also get some credit for puttin' together this offense for Peyton.
RIyankee
11-27-04, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by NYYFAN
If the Pats fart in the playoffs...Colts could get to and win the SB...
Any team that comes out of the AFC should easily win the SB. Unlike the Panthers of last year, there are no great teams in the Nominal Football Conference in 2004.
Peyton Manning can really throw a football. And he seems like quite a nice guy. I'll definitely give him that.
However, if I had to win a football game in the last two minutes or die, I'd pick one man at quarterback: Tom Brady.
Great QBs win the big ones. Manning trails Brady in that category by a significant margin. Manning can have the MVP trophy. Brady has TWO Super Bowl MVP trophies.
I have to note that I just LOVED all the "Peyton Manning is God" talk before last year's AFC title game, before Manning came into Gillette Stadium and threw four inteceptions and got sacked repeatedly. :D
And as for receivers, I'd match Deion Branch, David Givens, Troy Brown, David Patten, Daniel Graham and Christian Fauria up against anyone. Not to mention Keith Faulk and Corey Dillon. And Mike Vrabel of course. ;)
DaBomber25
11-27-04, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by NYPenn
Not to mention Keith Faulk and Corey Dillon. And Mike Vrabel of course. ;)
Red Sox closer and Patriots back! A double threat! ;)
IncredibleByNature
11-27-04, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by NYPenn
Great QBs win the big ones. Manning trails Brady in that category by a significant margin. Manning can have the MVP trophy. Brady has TWO Super Bowl MVP trophies.
Peyton *is* a great QB. He's better than great. Anyways, like most sports, football is a TEAM sport. Peyton certainly does his part on offense, but he needs a DEFENSE. He can't stop the other team from scoring. Give him a defense like Brady's, and he'd most likely have 2 SB MVP's as well. This is for another thread, but I think the Pats defense is more responsible for those 2 SB championships than Brady. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve any credit, b/c he certainly does, but I think the defense was the main reason they have those 2 SB championships.
deranged- Well said.
BB55- The offensive line doesn't get recognition, and like you said, it, along w/ the offensive coordinator, also deserve their fair share of praise.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-27-04, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by IncredibleByNature
Peyton *is* a great QB. He's better than great. Anyways, like most sports, football is a TEAM sport. Peyton certainly does his part on offense, but he needs a DEFENSE. He can't stop the other team from scoring. Give him a defense like Brady's, and he'd most likely have 2 SB MVP's as well. This is for another thread, but I think the Pats defense is more responsible for those 2 SB championships than Brady. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve any credit, b/c he certainly does, but I think the defense was the main reason they have those 2 SB championships.
This has been debated a lot. Especially that first Super Bowl, their defense really wasn't anything all that special. Without Brady's accuracy and poise, that team doesn't go anywhere, either of those years--he's perfect for what that team needs from their QB, absolutely perfect. Brady is not Trent Dilfer, and the Pats' D is not the Ravens' D of '01-'02--he's played as big a role in their success as anyone else on the team.
Projecting that "so-and-so would have won too if only he were on such-and-such talented team" is also something impossible to know--after all, Drew Bledsoe, a very physically talented QB, had Brady's team before Brady did, and, especially that year when Brady took over for him, was taking it nowhere, fast. Projections are nothing but guesses and what ifs? People do this a lot with Marino, too. The fact is, no one out there knows whether or not he'd have done anything more than he did if he'd been on a better team, they're only guessing and projecting, and I give that no creedence whatsoever.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by NYPenn
Not to mention Keith Faulk and Corey Dillon. And Mike Vrabel of course.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Sox closer and Patriots back! A double threat!
Whoopsie, now that was a pretty good Freudian slip, wasn't it? :lol:
I also managed to forget "Temple" Bethel Johnson on the list of WRs. Oy Vey!
I'll agree, IncrediblebyNature, that the Pats have a superb defense. However, in the last two Super Bowls, it was final-minute drives by Brady that won the games. There's a great moment on the DVD of the last SB of two of the Carolina players sitting on the bench in the final two minutes, saying no lead was safe, "not with that dude at quarterback, no way." Priceless.
Brady is a microcosm of the Pats - not flashy, not putting up the big numbers, but just getting it done, doing what he has to do to get the win. The Pats in a way remind me of that scene in "Troy" when Achilles comes out to fight the great warrior at the start of the film. The guy he's facing is a HUGE badass type, and Achilles looks like he's going to get killed, easy. Then he just runs, leaps at the monster guy, drives his sword into his neck and boom, it's over.
Another thought, Daboys, in response to your post - I think there are intangibles at work here as well, if we're talking about the defense. I think it's not only the offense - his linemen and receivers - who believe in Brady, but the defense as well. The Patriots embody TEAM better than anyone in the NFL, and that team concept extends throughout, not just among the defense or among the offense. They aren't separate units, each in their own kingdom. Larry Izzo may be the captain of the special teams, but did you see how his teammates on defense reacted when he got an interception last year in the final regular-season game? And Adam Vinatieri isn't a pampered kicker but one of the guys, a football player, not a specialist. I think Brady is looked upon the same way - he's not a prima dona, and he gets the same treatment (and expects the same treatment) as everyone else on the team.
I was a tad resentful when some ESPN analysts said the Patriots are a team without stars, except for Brady, which is a pretty dumb thing to say about a team with Vinatieri, Law, Seymour and Dillon, to name just a few. But then I think the Pats would take that as a compliment, except to probably shout that Brady's no star, either. :lol:
Originally posted by Socal Pinstriper
I Too bad the defense will keep them out of the Super Bowl.
In Manning's best chance to get to the Super Bowl, last year, his defense had nothing to do with the loss. Peyton's four interceptions did. In his best shot to date, he blew it.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-27-04, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by S2
In Manning's best chance to get to the Super Bowl, last year, his defense had nothing to do with the loss. Peyton's four interceptions did. In his best shot to date, he blew it.
I think their chance will prove to be even better this year. Clark is healthy, Edge is fully back to being the old Edge, and the way he's spreading the ball around to ALL of his receivers is just nuts. In other words, the offense is just too insane for me not to like their chances at the very least--they've also got a lot of the pundits starting to make an exception to their "defense wins championships" mantra because of this, and I happen to agree with them. Their front 4 on defense is also pretty solid. They've not been out of the game in any of their 3 losses.
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
I think their chance will prove to be even better this year. Clark is healthy, Edge is fully back to being the old Edge, and the way he's spreading the ball around to ALL of his receivers is just nuts. In other words, the offense is just too insane for me not to like their chances at the very least--they've also got a lot of the pundits starting to make an exception to their "defense wins championships" mantra because of this, and I happen to agree with them. Their front 4 on defense is also pretty solid. They've not been out of the game in any of their 3 losses.
While their offense is insanse, it looks like the road to Jacksonville for Indy will either have to go through Pittsburgh or Foxboro (where Manning has never won). Because NE beat the Colts, Indy will have to have a better record than the Pats (who own the tiebreaker). At 8-3, Indy will more than likely have to run the table and hope the Pats lose 3 more games. Not likely. They need that Dome Field Advantage.
BroadwayBomber55
11-27-04, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
This has been debated a lot. Especially that first Super Bowl, their defense really wasn't anything all that special. Without Brady's accuracy and poise, that team doesn't go anywhere, either of those years--he's perfect for what that team needs from their QB, absolutely perfect. Brady is not Trent Dilfer, and the Pats' D is not the Ravens' D of '01-'02--he's played as big a role in their success as anyone else on the team.
Projecting that "so-and-so would have won too if only he were on such-and-such talented team" is also something impossible to know--after all, Drew Bledsoe, a very physically talented QB, had Brady's team before Brady did, and, especially that year when Brady took over for him, was taking it nowhere, fast. Projections are nothing but guesses and what ifs? People do this a lot with Marino, too. The fact is, no one out there knows whether or not he'd have done anything more than he did if he'd been on a better team, they're only guessing and projecting, and I give that no creedence whatsoever.
Everyone don't forget these key moments for Tom Brady: 1. If that 'tuck rule' call didn't go his way in the 2001-2002 playoffs, the Pats would've played Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game and 2. if Drew Bledsoe didn't save Tom Brady's bacon in the 2002 AFC Championship game, Tom Brady would've gone to the Super Bowl to face the Rams.
And if if and buts were candied nuts, every day would be Christmas.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-27-04, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by BroadwayBomber55
Everyone don't forget these key moments for Tom Brady: 1. If that 'tuck rule' call didn't go his way in the 2001-2002 playoffs, the Pats would've played Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game and 2. if Drew Bledsoe didn't save Tom Brady's bacon in the 2002 AFC Championship game, Tom Brady would've gone to the Super Bowl to face the Rams.
I wouldn't exactly call it "saving his bacon"--the man got hurt. Good grief.
What "key moments" were there last season, besides going 14-2 and then rolling through the playoffs into the hard-fought Super Bowl win?
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-27-04, 10:19 PM
By the way, if we're going to keep going down the "Tom Brady/The Pats is/are lucky and/or overrated" route, there are entire threads devoted to this already. It's a stupid debate, but if you must, there are other places where you can keep beating this already-dead horse with a sledgehammer.
DaBoys4LifeNYY35
11-27-04, 10:21 PM
So to bring this back on track:
Peyton Manning is incredible.
Peyton Manning still has to prove himself in the biggest of big games, but he's gotta get there first, and he can't do it alone. But as long as he keeps playing like he's capable of playing and has been playing, the Colts will never be out of any game for the rest of this season. As good a chance as anyone to go all the way, in my opinion.
BroadwayBomber55
11-27-04, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by DaBoys4LifeNYY35
I wouldn't exactly call it "saving his bacon"--the man got hurt. Good grief.
What "key moments" were there last season, besides going 14-2 and then rolling through the playoffs into the hard-fought Super Bowl win?
Basically none.
RIyankee
11-28-04, 09:05 AM
When Manning gets rattled, he falls apart. Brady doesn't. However, Manning rarely gets rattled. Peyton plays behind a great O-Line, has a great RB in the midst of a career (contract) year in James, and has had a full (healthy) compliment of WR/TEs. Not to mention a weak schedule. It's been pure vanilla for him this season.
BTW I'm going to take plenty of hits for this, but the Colts offense has been protected by the refs this season - an NFL version of the "Jordan Rules". JMHO
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.7 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
0