View Full Version : Johan Santana on Fire
RhodeyYankee2638
07-07-04, 08:44 AM
This guy is incredible. He had an ERA of 5.4 in April and 5.79 ERA in May and has lowered it to 3.89. He is 1st in WHIP, 2nd in BAA, 1st in K's and 8th in IP. He has struck out 10 or more in his last 4 starts and struck out10, 5 out of his last 6 starts. If he pitches like this, he could be in contention for the Cy Young at the end of the season
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6441
Doc's Private Stash
07-07-04, 10:56 AM
Yeah, guy's been on a nice little tear so far. I'd hold off on annoitning him a Cy Young contender for now, if only because he's still a young pitcher (25) who's never started before for a whole season, let alone maintained at this level for that long a stretch. But that said he was solid last season when they worked him into the rotation towards the end of the year, and he's got nasty movement on his ball. He's got the stuff to become a top-shelf starter, I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps pitching well.
chanman7483
07-07-04, 11:01 AM
Just b/c he's young shouldn't stop him from winning the Cy Young. He's doing better than everyone in the league right now, save for Ben Sheets... better over the past few weeks that is.
If an 8 year old got out there and blew away batters he should win the award too... it's not based on past performance or whether they're a starter or not.
Doc's Private Stash
07-07-04, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by chanman7483
Just b/c he's young shouldn't stop him from winning the Cy Young. He's doing better than everyone in the league right now, save for Ben Sheets... better over the past few weeks that is.
If an 8 year old got out there and blew away batters he should win the award too... it's not based on past performance or whether they're a starter or not.
Yeah chan, thanks for the lecture on ageism. My point was not that he can't or won't win the Cy Young, my point was that 1 good month (albeit a VERY good one) does not a Cy Young candidate make. Good young pitchers, at least ones not named Mark Prior, tend towards streakiness early in their careers, that's all. He's pitching lights out right now, but he also had a 4-game losing streak in May/June where he got lit up. That's gonna happen with young guys. If you'll re-read my post, I also said it wouldn't shock me if he did keep it up and start pitch well more consistantly, since he's shown he has the stuff to become a very good major league pitcher eventually.
Patience in developing talented youngsters... hmmm.... what a novel idea, investing in the future.
chanman7483
07-07-04, 12:48 PM
Gotcha Doc...
Alex, investing in the future is so important as we know... but unless the guy is a can't miss, there's no reason to keep him around if he was involved in a big deal that could benefit the team that had the youngster.
It's pretty much a crapshoot - - i mean look at the bigger named prospects that we've had - - Milton... Claussen... Lilly... we've traded them all away... what have we got in return? For milton, we got Knoblauch who helped us win a few championships... For claussen we got Boone who helped us beat Boston, and if not for a red hot Marlin team, would've been a championship... Lilly got traded for Weaver who eventually turned into Kevin Brown.
So unless the guy is an absolute STUD, don't be afraid to trade the young pitchers, like the Yankees have.
Keep it up Johan, my fantasy team needs it :)
NJASDJDH
07-07-04, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Doc's Private Stash
Yeah, guy's been on a nice little tear so far. I'd hold off on annoitning him a Cy Young contender for now, if only because he's still a young pitcher (25) who's never started before for a whole season, let alone maintained at this level for that long a stretch. But that said he was solid last season when they worked him into the rotation towards the end of the year, and he's got nasty movement on his ball. He's got the stuff to become a top-shelf starter, I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps pitching well.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Santana has been one of the AL's best since 2002, but the Twins have just been stupid. Many of the better baseball minds around picked him for the AL Cy Young during the spring.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-07-04, 01:03 PM
Maybe we can trade for him for say a bag of balls, 6 bats, and Enrique Wilson....
RhodeyYankee2638
07-07-04, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by NJASDJDH
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Santana has been one of the AL's best since 2002, but the Twins have just been stupid. Many of the better baseball minds around picked him for the AL Cy Young during the spring.
Yep the Twins have definatly mis-used him. He should have been starting all year last year. They put him in an awkward spot by letting him pitch 1/3 of a year, then making him the #1 in the playoffs. I think a full season will do him a lot better
Doc's Private Stash
07-07-04, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by NJASDJDH
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Santana has been one of the AL's best since 2002, but the Twins have just been stupid. Many of the better baseball minds around picked him for the AL Cy Young during the spring.
Yes, I'm well aware that he's been great for Minnesota, but my point, yet AGAIN, was that he's bound to be streaky in his first full year as a starter, and he has been. The transition to starting in the big leagues over the course of an entire season is a tough one to make, and most young pitchers need some time to adjust. I agree with both you and Rhodey that he's been misused, and should have been given the opportunity to be a full-time starter earlier on.
NJASDJDH
07-07-04, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Doc's Private Stash
Yes, I'm well aware that he's been great for Minnesota, but my point, yet AGAIN, was that he's bound to be streaky in his first full year as a starter, and he has been. The transition to starting in the big leagues over the course of an entire season is a tough one to make, and most young pitchers need some time to adjust. I agree with both you and Rhodey that he's been misused, and should have been given the opportunity to be a full-time starter earlier on.
He has not been streaky because this is his first year as a starter. He has been streaky because for whatever reason, early on he was not pitching to his style.
BrooklynBotz
07-07-04, 02:26 PM
i was one of those people who had him picked as my preseason cy young winner. this was mainly because i had him on my fantasy team and was talking a little bit of smack to the rest of the league. then he went out and bombed the first two months, i dropped him, he was picked up and went on a tear. it has been driving me crazy. i guess i've got to learn to be more patient next time. i'm not sure i will(i did grow up during the big stein era so patience with my team is not my strong suit)
Doc's Private Stash
07-07-04, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by NJASDJDH
He has not been streaky because this is his first year as a starter. He has been streaky because for whatever reason, early on he was not pitching to his style.
Alright... :confused:
NJASDJDH
07-07-04, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Doc's Private Stash
Alright... :confused:
Yeah, that was a pretty crappy/incomprehensible response.
Doc's Private Stash
07-07-04, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by NJASDJDH
Yeah, that was a pretty crappy/incomprehensible response.
Funny, I was thinking the same about yours. "He was not pitching to his style"? What does that even mean? Am I supposed to respond to that with an articulate deconstruction of his pitching style and how it has varied from start to start? Could you do that to back up your claim? I haven't been trying to propose a cure for cancer in this thread, I've merely tried to point out, quite benignly, that promising young pitchers often exhibit inconsistancy when they join the rotation for their first full season, and as a result we shouldn't start expecting him to dominate every start until he's allowed a season or two to get himself used to starting every 5th day for 162 games. Whether that means learning how to "pitch to his style" every time out (whatever that means), or physically conditioning himself for the long haul, or learning how to set up pitches and work through a lineup 3 or 4 times each start...It's a tough transition to become a major league starter. Not saying he can't do it, or even that he hasn't already begun to turn the corner. I'm just saying that, realistically, it's unfair to expect him to be the picture of consistancy in the Twins rotation for the rest of the season based on one hot month given that this is his first full season as a starter.
I can't believe I just wasted time spelling this out again. Slooooow day at work... :rolleyes:
Pickwick12
07-07-04, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Doc's Private Stash
Funny, I was thinking the same about yours.
I thought he was talking about his???
NJASDJDH
07-07-04, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Pickwick12
I thought he was talking about his???
I was.
Doc's Private Stash
07-07-04, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by NJASDJDH
I was.
Alright, misunderstanding. My mistake...
Calvin and Hobbes
07-18-04, 11:52 AM
Johan is a monster. I want that kid so f-ing bad. This kid is going to be a straight up stud-horse for the next decade.
RhodeyYankee2638
07-23-04, 10:47 AM
He strikes again. 7 IP, 1 ER 10 K's and ended up with the ND
Holy Schmidt
09-04-04, 01:38 AM
Last night: 7.0 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 11 K
Man, this guy is unreal.
The amazing thing about all these strikeouts is that his average fastball clocks at 92-93 mph, while most other strikeout pitchers of the world can get it up to 95+ on a regular basis.
Which makes you wonder... How GREAT can his arm action be?
And the actual reason for him doing so poorly the first two months of the season is because he is coming off elbow surgery. He's always had incredible stuff, so this didn't exactly come out of nowhere. Check his K/9 the last couple of years.
There is also some guy out there named Pedro Jaime Martinez who is endorsing him, saying that Johan has even better stuff than he did at the same age.
Yes, I'm well aware that he's been great for Minnesota, but my point, yet AGAIN, was that he's bound to be streaky in his first full year as a starter, and he has been.
Santana has been streaky? Not really. He started out the season cold, then he picked it up, and has been the best starter in baseball since then.
April: 5.40 era, 1.34 whip
May: 5.79 era, 1.62 whip
June: 2.39 era, .72 whip
July: 1.17 era, .63 whip
August: 2.08 era, .83 whip
And then his start tonight, where he gave up 1 hit in 7 innings, no runs.
Overall: 2.95 era(2nd), .95 whip(1st), 224 k(1st), 16 w(3rd)
You may see streaky, I see a guy who had a slow start, then has been by far the best pitcher in the AL from the end of May to now. If he continues along at his current pace, or if the season ended today, he would win the CY, easily. He has 1 fewer win than Schilling and Mulder, and he plays for a good team, so he won't get overlooked for either of those reasons. His other numbers (era/whip/k/baa) are so much better than any other AL SP, he will win easily.
Holy Schmidt
09-04-04, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Euclis
..........
July 7, 2004.
Silly me....why did you bump this back up:P
RhodeyYankee2638
09-04-04, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Euclis
Silly me....why did you bump this back up:P
Because I predicted JS as the Cy Young 2 monthes ago?
SheffMVP11
09-04-04, 11:57 AM
You have to go back 3 months to Santana's last start where he allowed more than 3 ER in a game (he allowed 4 ER in 7.2 IP on June 3rd).
In his last 17 starts, he has allowed:
- 3 ER in 1 of them
- 2 ER in 6 of them
- 1 ER in 7 of them
- 0 ER in 3 of them
That is indeed vintage Pedro-like
Who wants to face the Twins in the ALDS with this guy starting games 1 and 4, and Radke starting games 2 and 5?
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