View Full Version : Boston talking all sorts of trash
mycroft
12-14-03, 03:41 PM
Can you believe these guys?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-redsox-ortiz&prov=ap&type=lgns
Ortiz: Red Sox should win AL in 2004
By RICARDO ZUNIGA, Associated Press Writer
December 14, 2003
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- David Ortiz has a warning for the New York Yankees and the rest of the American League: Beware the Boston Red Sox.
Boston's designated hitter said new starter Curt Schilling and closer Keith Foulke should make the Red Sox favorites for the AL crown. Schilling joins Pedro Martinez, Derek Lowe and Tim Wakefield to form one of the major's top rotations.
``This team should win,'' Ortiz said Sunday in San Juan, where he was playing in an all-star game between the Dominican and Puerto Rican winter leagues. ``Pedro, Curt, Lowe and Wakefield. That's scary.''
The Dominican slugger thinks management should keep the rest of the team intact and not trade shortstop Nomar Garciaparra and outfielder Manny Ramirez or acquire AL MVP Alex Rodriguez of the Texas Rangers.
Ortiz said that the major leagues' leading offensive team would lose about 70 home runs, 200 RBIs and 400 hits if they trade Ramirez and Garciaparra.
``If Manny and Garciaparra are not traded, like it's been rumored, I think next year things are going to get ugly'' for other teams, Ortiz said.
With the signing of Foulke the Red Sox addressed their main weakness last season, relief pitching, Ortiz said.
``We were missing a closer,'' he said. ``Now we have one of the best.''
Ortiz was honored Saturday at baseball's winter meetings as the top designated hitter in the majors last season. He hit .310 with 27 homers and 73 RBIs as a DH and .288 with 31 homers and 101 RBIs overall. He was fifth in the AL MVP voting.
Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein commended Ortiz on his award. Epstein also said he began talks on Saturday with Ortiz's agent on a multiyear contract.
``That's what I'm looking for,'' Ortiz said. ``Then I can just play ball and be relaxed.''
I can see Boston winning the division...
But losing to the Wildcard Yankee's....:D
yanksrule69
12-14-03, 03:43 PM
Career year Ortiz, when you have returned to playing human baseball next year we will see what you are saying.
The Red Sux are always talking smack. Hasn't won them anything since 1918 though.:NY:
PedroSchill!!
12-14-03, 03:46 PM
I CAN'T TASTE MY BEER!!!!!:eek:
SINCE77 2
12-14-03, 03:47 PM
I can't wait until Boston finds itself staring up at the Yankees and Toronto in the AL East.
patrick.o
12-14-03, 03:48 PM
Wow, usually the parade in Boston is in April or May. Now they're getting fitted for their rings in December! :lol:
Karthik
12-14-03, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by mycroft
Can you believe these guys?
Ortiz said that the major leagues' leading offensive team would lose about 70 home runs, 200 RBIs and 400 hits if they trade Ramirez and Garciaparra.
I assume they're trying to trade Manny and Nomar for more stools on top of the Green Monster, instead of say A-Rod or any other breathing MLB players?
This is why Theo is GM and not David Ortiz.... let him talk all he wants.... no one's even going to report to camp for another 3 months, much less play a game.
(A, now, correctly placed) Yawn
yankeegeek
12-14-03, 05:22 PM
Talk is cheap. They talked all that crap and look at who went to the WORLD SERIES. Most of the players had career years and with all that has gone on with Manny and Nomar, that team is headed to only one place.....3rd place finish.
Should've. Could've Would've....................................
Except for ............
The cruelties of fate Mr. Ortiz ;)
im not crazy
12-14-03, 05:25 PM
:rolleyes:
what an asshat. i totally agree with yankeegeek: talk is cheap.
bakntime
12-14-03, 06:13 PM
Don't we hear this same **** every year?
Yankee Bulldawg
12-14-03, 06:33 PM
same old talk. they cant talk the talk and they certainly cant walk the walk
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 06:45 PM
what exactly is the problem you guys have with this? reporters in PR winter league ask him his thoughts about the team after the foulke pickup, what do you expect him to say? it's not like he said anythinga bad about the yanks, which is usually what I think of as trash-talking.
I guess you guys must be non-New Yorker NY fans, b/c you've got very think skins. :)
bakntime
12-14-03, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
what exactly is the problem you guys have with this? reporters in PR winter league ask him his thoughts about the team after the foulke pickup, what do you expect him to say?
Well, really, in a perfect world, they'd say "I fee good about our team" and that's about it.
It's not that there's really anything wrong with what they said, it's just that talk is cheap... All bark and no bite from some of these guys when it counts.
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
talk is cheap... All bark and no bite from some of these guys when it counts.
I seem to recall Ortiz having a pretty good ALCS...:)
bakntime
12-14-03, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
I seem to recall Ortiz having a pretty good ALCS...:)
Hmmm... 7 for 26, 6 RBI. Not bad...
He batted .191 with a .645 OPS over the whole postseason.
yankeegeek
12-14-03, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
I seem to recall Ortiz having a pretty good ALCS...:)
He did. Too bad it wasn't good enough to get Boston to the World Series.
Originally posted by bosoxfan
I seem to recall Ortiz having a pretty good ALCS...:)
Actually he was my pick for league MVP and was a great pickup for the Sox who killed the Yanks all year but Boone still nailed that first pitch knuckler no matter how times you rewind the tape.
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
Hmmm... 7 for 26, 6 RBI. Not bad...
He batted .191 with a .645 OPS over the whole postseason.
2HR, OPS>900? HR gave them lead in g1, gave them insurance run (theoretically) in game 7? better series at the plate than pretty much any yankee?
yes, had a bad series against the As, but came back fine in the ALCS - personally, I'm fine with that.
mycroft
12-14-03, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
I seem to recall Ortiz having a pretty good ALCS...:)
:o
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by wexy
but Boone still nailed that first pitch knuckler no matter how times you rewind the tape.
both this and yankeegeek's post re who won accurate, obviously, but not the point. the other poster (bakntime?) questioned his ability to perform when it mattered, but he did in fact perform.
mycroft
12-14-03, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
whatever
ouch that really hurt:rolleyes:
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by mycroft
ouch that really hurt:rolleyes:
this is silly. please see PM.
pacewon
12-14-03, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
I seem to recall Ortiz having a pretty good ALCS...:)
Nobody else recalled it because all we remember is him crying in the clubhouse
yankeegeek
12-14-03, 10:01 PM
:ga-ga: Great picture.What a great series. The look of pain on those players and fans is priceless!
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
:ga-ga: Great picture.What a great series. The look of pain on those players and fans is priceless!
they were crying b/c they knew the Yanks would somehow lose to the Fish, a team we would have beat in 5, in the series :)
bakntime
12-14-03, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
they were crying b/c they knew the Yanks would somehow lose to the Fish, a team we would have beat in 5, in the series :)
too bad you didn't get there, huh? :D
PippyPinstripes
12-14-03, 11:05 PM
Eh, let em talk whatever smack they want. They still don't have the Babe on their side.
PippyPinstripes
12-14-03, 11:06 PM
Psst, hey bosoxfan:
http://www.ebkt.com/boone.jpg
;)
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by bakntime
too bad you didn't get there, huh? :D
yes
yankeegeek
12-14-03, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
they were crying b/c they knew the Yanks would somehow lose to the Fish, a team we would have beat in 5, in the series :)
See here is the problem with your response, YOU HAVE NO LEG TO STAND ON! What in god's green earth makes you think that you would have beaten them??? Good line. Have to give credit, where credit is due.
Besides, you haven't won in since 1917, what makes you think 2003 was"Your Year"1986
bosoxfan
12-14-03, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
See here is the problem with your response, YOU HAVE NO LEG TO STAND ON! What in god's green earth makes you think that you would have beaten them??? Good line. Have to give credit, where credit is due.
Besides, you haven't won in since 1917, what makes you think 2003 was"Your Year"1986
actually, I was joking around to give you a hard time, but I guess you didnt realize that.
(but do I think we would have won? yes. why? b/c we were the better team than them, illustrated by knocking them (Pavano and POenny included) around to the tune of 45 runs in taking 2 of 3 from them during the season. could the sox have lost? of course. does any of it matter? nope.)
yankeegeek
12-14-03, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
actually, I was joking around to give you a hard time, but I guess you didnt realize that.
(but do I think we would have won? yes. why? b/c we were the better team than them, illustrated by knocking them (Pavano and POenny included) around to the tune of 45 runs in taking 2 of 3 from them during the season. could the sox have lost? of course. does any of it matter? nope.)
Don't worry, I knew;) . I was just being a wiseass.
pacewon
12-15-03, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
(but do I think we would have won? yes. why? b/c we were the better team than them, illustrated by knocking them (Pavano and POenny included) around to the tune of 45 runs in taking 2 of 3 from them during the season.
What happens in June doesn't translate to what happens in October... Put it this way: you lost to a team who lost to the Marlins. If you weren't good enough to get there you weren't good enough to win it.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
What happens in June doesn't translate to what happens in October... Put it this way: you lost to a team who lost to the Marlins. If you weren't good enough to get there you weren't good enough to win it.
gee, thanks for that explanation... I notice that you cut off the part of my quote saying, "does any of it matter? nope."
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
Don't worry, I knew;) . I was just being a wiseass.
then I guess I was the one who didn't realize it :)
pacewon
12-15-03, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
gee, thanks for that explanation... I notice that you cut off the part of my quote saying, "does any of it matter? nope."
Because I was only referring to your belief that the Sox would have won the Series if the Yankees didn't end their season. No need to be a wiseass
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
Because I was only referring to your belief that the Sox would have won the Series if the Yankees didn't end their season. No need to be a wiseass
well, I do believe that the sox would have won (and that it doesn't matter). the yanks' loss doesn't do anything to disprove that.
pacewon
12-15-03, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
well, I do believe that the sox would have won (and that it doesn't matter). the yanks' loss doesn't do anything to disprove that.
Just as what happened in June does nothing to prove your reasoning
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
Just as what happened in June does nothing to prove your reasoning
why do you have such a problem with my believing the sox would have beaten the fish? I never claimed that they definitely would have, I never claimed that the can of whoopass they opened on them in June proved anything. I never claimed that my opinion on this matters. I believe it. The sox had a bette season, and had a better team. maybe the sox matched up better with them - were better fastball hitters, for ex. I don;t know, I'm not trying to prove anything, just stating opinion.
if you'd like to continue to try to prove a meaningless opinion wrong for some inexplicable reason, go ahead, but come up wih something better than team a beat team b, team b beat team c, therefore team a is better than team c. we all know that isn't necessarily true.
pacewon
12-15-03, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
why do you have such a problem with my believing the sox would have beaten the fish? I never claimed that they definitely would have, I never claimed that the can of whoopass they opened on them in June proved anything. I never claimed that my opinion on this matters. I believe it. The sox had a bette season, and had a better team. maybe the sox matched up better with them - were better fastball hitters, for ex. I don;t know, I'm not trying to prove anything, just stating opinion.
if you'd like to continue to try to prove a meaningless opinion wrong for some inexplicable reason, go ahead, but come up wih something better than team a beat team b, team b beat team c, therefore team a is better than team c. we all know that isn't necessarily true.
Your reasoning behind the belief that the Sox would have won it had they beaten the Yanks is silly, that's all I'm saying, that's all I said to begin with. I'm not gonna waste anymore of my life telling you that you're wrong, I've done enough of that in this thread. Have a good one :gulp:
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
Your reasoning behind the belief that the Sox would have won it had they beaten the Yanks is silly, that's all I'm saying, that's all I said to begin with. I'm not gonna waste anymore of my life telling you that you're wrong, I've done enough of that in this thread. Have a good one :gulp:
sorry you feel it's silly, and glad to hear that you've realized that it really isn't worth the time to criticize it. have a good night.
mycroft
12-15-03, 07:10 AM
I think it is absolutely hysterical that Boston is so concerned about the Yankees they and their fans totally loose sight of everything and everyone else. I guess they figure all they have is talking trash...well, and hooliganism.
Babe
Buckner
Buckey
Boone
The FOUR B's :lol:
restlesssoulNYC
12-15-03, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by mycroft
I think it is absolutely hysterical that Boston is so concerned about the Yankees they and their fans totally loose sight of everything and everyone else. I guess they figure all they have is talking trash...well, and hooliganism.
Yeah, feed these idiots cheap booze and they become the model citizens of Boston, Massachusetts, and the rest of Red Sux Nation (I wouldn't want my kids to be involved in a group that calls themselves "Red Sux Nation...that's just dumb") Argh!
NDBoston
12-15-03, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by restlesssoulNYC
Yeah, feed these idiots cheap booze and they become the model citizens of Boston, Massachusetts, and the rest of Red Sux Nation (I wouldn't want my kids to be involved in a group that calls themselves "Red Sux Nation...that's just dumb") Argh!
Can we agree that both sides have their share of idiot fans?
restlesssoulNYC
12-15-03, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston
Can we agree that both sides have their share of idiot fans?
Ok, I concur :)
mycroft
12-15-03, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by restlesssoulNYC
Ok, I concur :)
Yea, me too:)
SINCE77 2
12-15-03, 09:59 AM
I have to agree with you regarding the Sox over the Fish in 5. For all of the hype about the Marlins stellar pitching imo they were wildly inconsistent and to be honest, not very intimidating at all. The Yankees are best against pitchers that have great control. In other words the Yankees hit good pitching. Boston on the other hand destroys inconsistent pitching like nobodys business. I don't know what it is about the Yankees. They could absolutely exhaust a tremendous pitcher like Pedro who has impeccable control but turn around and flail helplessly against some rookie with wildly inconsistent stuff. If the NL WS contender was the Cubs or the Giants I'm pretty certain that we would have won.
mycroft
12-15-03, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by SINCE77 2
I have to agree with you regarding the Sox over the Fish in 5. For all of the hype about the Marlins stellar pitching imo they were wildly inconsistent and to be honest, not very intimidating at all. The Yankees are best against pitchers that have great control. In other words the Yankees hit good pitching. Boston on the other hand destroys inconsistent pitching like nobodys business. I don't know what it is about the Yankees. They could absolutely exhaust a tremendous pitcher like Pedro who has impeccable control but turn around and flail helplessly against some rookie with wildly inconsistent stuff. If the NL WS contender was the Cubs or the Giants I'm pretty certain that we would have won.
Peedrow has impeccable control, gee I wonder why he kept hitting our players, uhh, serveral times,....hmmmm:uhh:
Losers need excuses, winners don't. However, the Boston series was very draining. After all the brawls and chaos the Yanks had to be exhausted. However, it has been noticed by more than just myself that the WS was a microcosm of the entire year, stranded runners and blown oppotunites. Of course game 5 was the real killer when His ROYAL Fatness was unable to continue because he couldn't get his big fat belly out of the way.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by mycroft
Peedrow has impeccable control, gee I wonder why he kept hitting our players, uhh, serveral times,....hmmmm:uhh:
Losers need excuses, winners don't. However, the Boston series was very draining. After all the brawls and chaos the Yanks had to be exhausted. However, it has been noticed by more than just myself that the WS was a microcosm of the entire year, stranded runners and blown oppotunites. Of course game 5 was the real killer when His ROYAL Fatness was unable to continue because he couldn't get his big fat belly out of the way.
Pedro "high-profile" HBP:
Garcia - stupid, done out of frustration, inexcusable
Soriano (in season) - pitch actually was over plate - good pitching
Jeter (in season) - pitch just off plate, Jeter diving over plate so he could try to slap a single into right
2 of 3 were smart, tough pitching that too few hurlers can/will do anymore (Roger was an exception, obviously). I noticed come playoff time that soriano was a little further off the plate and jeter wasn;t diving across it quite effectively. message received.
mycroft
12-15-03, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
Pedro "high-profile" HBP:
Garcia - stupid, done out of frustration, inexcusable
Soriano (in season) - pitch actually was over plate - good pitching
Jeter (in season) - pitch just off plate, Jeter diving over plate so he could try to slap a single into right
2 of 3 were smart, tough pitching that too few hurlers can/will do anymore (Roger was an exception, obviously). I noticed come playoff time that soriano was a little further off the plate and jeter wasn;t diving across it quite effectively. message received.
NY Yankees, 2003 American League Champions. That is the message I received.
The pitches you mentioned were thrown at each player intentionally. The Yanks did not retaliate at all last year until he threw at Garcia's head. Then tough guy Peedrow did his best Benitez imitation and tried to take on the entire team, intimidating jestures, the whole thing. Peedrow was thowing at Jeter and Soriano intentionally. He was totally responsible for everything that happened including Boston losing the game and series.
Peedrow is a criminal and he should be on trial, not Nelson and Garcia.
WiffleWOOD
12-15-03, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by mycroft
NY Yankees, 2003 American League Champions. That is the message I received.
The pitches you mentioned were thrown at each player intentionally. The Yanks did not retaliate at all last year until he threw at Garcia's head. Then tough guy Peedrow did his best Benitez imitation and tried to take on the entire team, intimidating jestures, the whole thing. Peedrow was thowing at Jeter and Soriano intentionally. He was totally responsible for everything that happened including Boston losing the game and series.
Peedrow is a criminal and he should be on trial, not Nelson and Garcia.
i don't think the sori or jeter HBP's were intentional. he's friends with sori. jeter leans over the plate all the time. they may very well have been intentional, but I don't see it. the garcia pitch was beyond intentional.
not to bring up an old mess, and not to start a new one, but i truly (unfortunately) believe that the sox were the better team this last year and should have beaten the yanks, and probably the marlins. i was saying it way back in may...i told my dad on a weekly basis that the sox were gonna do it this year.
of course, the yanks post-season magic prevailed, THANK GOD. but just because team A beats Team B does not mean that they should have, and does not mean Team B could not have beaten Team C.
mycroft
12-15-03, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by WiffleWOOD
i don't think the sori or jeter HBP's were intentional. he's friends with sori. jeter leans over the plate all the time. they may very well have been intentional, but I don't see it. the garcia pitch was beyond intentional.
not to bring up an old mess, and not to start a new one, but i truly (unfortunately) believe that the sox were the better team this last year and should have beaten the yanks, and probably the marlins. i was saying it way back in may...i told my dad on a weekly basis that the sox were gonna do it this year.
of course, the yanks post-season magic prevailed, THANK GOD. but just because team A beats Team B does not mean that they should have, and does not mean Team B could not have beaten Team C.
Maybe, last comment and then I am done.
Peedrow's actions after he threw at Garcia plus hitting Jeter and Soriano several times tells me that he was indeed intentionally hitting our players. I have a feeling that Boston heightened the problem in order to intimidate the Yanks and make sure they were completely worn out when the inevitable happened.
I would certainly like to forget about all of this going into next season but something tells me this isn't over.
Hitting someone in the hands can't be intentional. He may have intended to throw inside, but not to throw at someone's hands. If Pedro wanted to hit Jeter or Sori, he would have just hit them in the head like he does to everyone else.
-jim
hugelongtermdeal
12-15-03, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by mycroft
The Yanks did not retaliate at all last year until he threw at Garcia's head
better watch the tape again. "If" the ball had hit garcia (which is debatable), it would have hit him in the middle of his back. The myth of Pedro throwing at Garcia's head was nothing more than a senile rant by Tim McCarver.
YankeePride1967
12-15-03, 11:25 AM
It is absurd, IMHO for anyone to talk about the future. A Yankee fan saying Boston won't win because of "1918" is irritating and the Ortiz types talking about accomplishments they have yet to make is irritating.
Originally posted by hugelongtermdeal
better watch the tape again. "If" the ball had hit garcia (which is debatable), it would have hit him in the middle of his back. The myth of Pedro throwing at Garcia's head was nothing more than a senile rant by Tim McCarvery.
what are you smoking?
he over threw the ball and it started and finished going straight for garcia's head.
he threw at him, no question.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by mycroft
NY Yankees, 2003 American League Champions. That is the message I received.
The pitches you mentioned were thrown at each player intentionally. The Yanks did not retaliate at all last year until he threw at Garcia's head. Then tough guy Peedrow did his best Benitez imitation and tried to take on the entire team, intimidating jestures, the whole thing. Peedrow was thowing at Jeter and Soriano intentionally. He was totally responsible for everything that happened including Boston losing the game and series.
Peedrow is a criminal and he should be on trial, not Nelson and Garcia.
yes - you don't play in the games. were they all intentional? yes, at least to some degree. that's what I said. however, anybody who understands the game knows that throwing inside to get a batter off the plate or to prevent him from diving over the plate is part of pitching. throwing at a batter in frustration is not acceptable.
intimidating gestures? maybe Posada should have gotten off the field and back into the dugout.
totally responsible for everythig? that's silly. garcia was responsible for taking out walker. manny was responsible for overreacting to Clemens's inside pitch (also a pitch, btw, that there was nothing wrong with - even had it hit manny - which it didn;t b/c he doesnt stand on the plate). zimmer was reponsible for charging pedro, pedro was responsible for putting him on the ground.
your last statement is just silly.
seriously, as I've requested before, if you want to talk baseball, please reply, but if not, just keep it to yourself and save me and other people the time of not reading it.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by hugelongtermdeal
better watch the tape again. "If" the ball had hit garcia (which is debatable), it would have hit him in the middle of his back. The myth of Pedro throwing at Garcia's head was nothing more than a senile rant by Tim McCarvery.
that's actually a good point that is often overlooked- it was really hard to tell if it hit him, I actually thought it did not, but couldn;t conclude that.
and I dont think he was throwing at his head, but he clearly was throwing at him.
hugelongtermdeal
12-15-03, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
and I dont think he was throwing at his head, but he clearly was throwing at him.
Correct - If he had been throwing at his head - everyone would have know. For instance, earlier in the season, when Clemens threw at Millar's head, the ball buzzed within a few inches of his face -- it was easy to conclude that Clemens was throwing at this head.
Dave in MD
12-15-03, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by hugelongtermdeal
Correct - If he had been throwing at his head - everyone would have know. For instance, earlier in the season, when Clemens threw at Millar's head, the ball buzzed within a few inches of his face -- it was easy to conclude that Clemens was throwing at this head.
He definately threw it at his head. The only reason it missed is because it nicked the top of his back. Regardless he threw it high and at him. Pedro is gutless. It that simple.
yanksrule69
12-15-03, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
that's actually a good point that is often overlooked- it was really hard to tell if it hit him, I actually thought it did not, but couldn;t conclude that.
and I dont think he was throwing at his head, but he clearly was throwing at him.
It was obvious that it hit him. It is questionable where (the back,neck, or head).
PippyPinstripes
12-15-03, 01:02 PM
Man oh man Sox fans are in so much denial when it comes to that tool!
Seriously, if Pedro was a Yankee, I would still see that he's a jackass. Does that uniform blind you that much? How can you not see that he's a jackass?
NDBoston
12-15-03, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
Man oh man Sox fans are in so much denial when it comes to that tool!
Seriously, if Pedro was a Yankee, I would still see that he's a jackass. Does that uniform blind you that much? How can you not see that he's a jackass?
So you were calling Clemens a jackass after his incidents with Piazza?
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by yanksrule69
It was obvious that it hit him. It is questionable where (the back,neck, or head).
no, it really wasn't. I saw the replay so many times- not just network, also tivo. and even the 2 friends I was watching with - both Yanks fans - agreed they weren't sure. but you know what? I don't really care - he was trying to hit him, he either did hit him or came as close as you can w/o hitting him, so give the guy the base. sounds fair to me.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
Man oh man Sox fans are in so much denial when it comes to that tool!
Seriously, if Pedro was a Yankee, I would still see that he's a jackass. Does that uniform blind you that much? How can you not see that he's a jackass?
if only we were as objective and rational as all yanks fans are... I honestly believe that if Pedro were a Yank, you'dlove him, and you'd be talking about how he stands his own, in the tradition of yankees greats on the mound before him. hopefully we';ll never know (I'm sure you'll agree to that, although most of your fellow fans would acknowledge they'd love to have him in pinstripes)
Pippy, you probably shouldn't bother.
Like Theo and Curt Schilling, Petey can do no wrong.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by ACPS
Pippy, you probably shouldn't bother.
Like Theo and Curt Schilling, Petey can do no wrong.
no, pippy probably shouldn't bother, b/c all his/her posts are rants about thuggery, hooliganism, conspiracies and criminals, w/little or no basis in fact. this isn't about being a yanks fan or a sox fan - see posts from Wifflewood and Jim E, for example.
re doing no wrong, please read the posts - for ex, I described pedro throwing at Garcia as "stupid, done out of frustration, inexcusable" and later reiterated that "throwing at a batter in furstration is unacceptable." those statements were intended to convey that I thought pedro was wrong in throwing at garcia. perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
NDBoston
12-15-03, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
no, pippy probably shouldn't bother, b/c all his/her posts are rants about thuggery, hooliganism, conspiracies and criminals, w/little or no basis in fact. this isn't about being a yanks fan or a sox fan - see posts from Wifflewood and Jim E, for example.
re doing no wrong, please read the posts - for ex, I described pedro throwing at Garcia as "stupid, done out of frustration, inexcusable" and later reiterated that "throwing at a batter in furstration is unacceptable." those statements were intended to convey that I thought pedro was wrong in throwing at garcia. perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
you're on a Yankees board, bosox. you should expect some thinking that is more "partisian" than factual.
NDBoston
12-15-03, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by ACPS
Pippy, you probably shouldn't bother.
Like Theo and Curt Schilling, Petey can do no wrong.
I'm lost on this one ACPS.
What has Theo and Schilling done for me to complain about?
Suppan....but that's about it.
pacewon
12-15-03, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
Suppan....but that's about it.
What about that Ramiro Mendoza guy? How'd he do last season? :lol:
PippyPinstripes
12-15-03, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
So you were calling Clemens a jackass after his incidents with Piazza?
HAHA Thank you, you just won me a ten-dollar bet. I bet my friend that the Clemens/Piazza incident would be brought up immendiately after I posted that, in some sort of weak retort.
And yes, that whole Clemens/Piazza thing reeked of jackassery...on both sides.
PippyPinstripes
12-15-03, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
no, pippy probably shouldn't bother, b/c all his/her posts are rants about thuggery, hooliganism, conspiracies and criminals, w/little or no basis in fact.
:lol: You so fooney!
NDBoston
12-15-03, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
HAHA Thank you, you just won me a ten-dollar bet. I bet my friend that the Clemens/Piazza incident would be brought up immendiately after I posted that, in some sort of weak retort.
And yes, that whole Clemens/Piazza thing reeked of jackassery...on both sides.
why shouldn't it be brought up? it's very similar to what happened with Pedro and both pitchers are accused to be a "headhunters"
how is that a weak retort exactly Pippy?
Pedro is a diva. So aren't most of the superstars out there. He also was the top pitcher in baseball for a number of years. He backs up his talk with performing on the field.
BTW: You just traded and signed for a couple "jackasses" Pippy.
Originally posted by NDBoston
I'm lost on this one ACPS.
What has Theo and Schilling done for me to complain about?
Suppan....but that's about it.
Huh? I was being serious... ;)
daishan35
12-15-03, 05:12 PM
yeah...it is obvious that pedro was trying to throw at him. what i still find inexcusable is the events that took place afterwards. pedro basically "saying" (i cant read lips well, after all) he would throw at other peoples heads is what i think really started everything. and then garcia made it even worse by forcefully taking out walker--who really had nothing to do with it. taking a guy out is one thing and part of baseball. but it was tooo much...not that i can say in the same situation that i wouldnt have done the same thing with all of the emotion involved. and i can find no real fault with zimmer because of what happened in the past. that is to sy i think Zim is responsible for charging pedro--as he himself has said. but after getting beaned like he did, i cant blame him. i just really, really detest pedro for the pointing at the head thing. it was wrong. even if he didnt mean to throw at garcia's head--which he may not have--poiting to your head is a conscious act. and if he were a yankee, i would STILL be insanely upset with him. we should do away with the DH just so our pitchers would be held accountable in some way for that. clemens included. you can intimidate the other team, and get them off them plate (the other 2 incidents were just that...) but if you throw at a guys head...you should have to be forced to bat next
pacewon
12-15-03, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
He backs up his talk with performing on the field.
Just not against the Yankees
I see nothing wrong with what Ortiz said. They should be confident - they ARE a great team. Now, they just have to go out there and do it, which has been their bugaboo for a long long time.
25Giambi25
12-15-03, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Alex
I see nothing wrong with what Ortiz said. They should be confident - they ARE a great team. Now, they just have to go out there and do it, which has been their bugaboo for a long long time.
Agreed---I don't think what Ortiz said was wrong, just funny! :lol:
I'm glad that he is confident and I hope that the rest of the team feels the same way so that their pain is that much deeper when they fail to win the WS next year.
pacewon
12-15-03, 06:19 PM
The Dominican slugger thinks management should keep the rest of the team intact and not trade shortstop Nomar Garciaparra and outfielder Manny Ramirez or acquire AL MVP Alex Rodriguez of the Texas Rangers.
Ortiz said that the major leagues' leading offensive team would lose about 70 home runs, 200 RBIs and 400 hits if they trade Ramirez and Garciaparra.
``If Manny and Garciaparra are not traded, like it's been rumored, I think next year things are going to get ugly'' for other teams, Ortiz said.
Looks like Ortiz will not get his wish and we can mark everything he said as irrelevant. Wait, we already did that...
Judge Mental
12-15-03, 06:28 PM
unless you know what pedro was saying than speculating (a la tim mccarver) about it is basically pointless. he could have been saying "i'll remember that" "I'll hit you next time you're up" or "you have abnormally large ears" to jorge posada for all we know....
and furthermore his control was not impeccable in that game or in the entire postseason, he was missing spots all over the place, you can go on believing that he was intentionally trying to put karim garcia on first base in a playoff game, but in my estimation, he was trying to throw up and in, and it got away from him. if clemens had thrown inside at manny first and everybody on the sox bench started jumping up and screaming at him he probably would've made intimidating gestures at them too, he's certainly not above that sort of behavior, as we saw when he threw part of a bat AT mike piazza.
basically these arguments are cicular and pointless, mistakes were made on both sides, and in the end the sox came out looking like the losers because that's just how the series went, but it was still one of the best playoff series i've ever seen in my life and i for one am happy that the yankee and red sox don't like each other anymore, when i was a kid the yankees and red sox fans, players, coaches, and management all hated each other, there was no jeter/nomar pow-wows on second base, guys didn't warm up and stretch together before the games, those guys hated each other, now they do again.....and thank god for it.
NDBoston
12-15-03, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Judge Mental
unless you know what pedro was saying than speculating (a la tim mccarver) about it is basically pointless. he could have been saying "i'll remember that" "I'll hit you next time you're up" or "you have abnormally large ears" to jorge posada for all we know....
and furthermore his control was not impeccable in that game or in the entire postseason, he was missing spots all over the place, you can go on believing that he was intentionally trying to put karim garcia on first base in a playoff game, but in my estimation, he was trying to throw up and in, and it got away from him. if clemens had thrown inside at manny first and everybody on the sox bench started jumping up and screaming at him he probably would've made intimidating gestures at them too, he's certainly not above that sort of behavior, as we saw when he threw part of a bat AT mike piazza.
basically these arguments are cicular and pointless, mistakes were made on both sides, and in the end the sox came out looking like the losers because that's just how the series went, but it was still one of the best playoff series i've ever seen in my life and i for one am happy that the yankee and red sox don't like each other anymore, when i was a kid the yankees and red sox fans, players, coaches, and management all hated each other, there was no jeter/nomar pow-wows on second base, guys didn't warm up and stretch together before the games, those guys hated each other, now they do again.....and thank god for it.
GREAT post.
This rivalry is at an all time high in my lifetime.
I can't wait until ARod and Jeter start talking trash to each other.
bakntime
12-15-03, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
GREAT post.
This rivalry is at an all time high in my lifetime.
I can't wait until ARod and Jeter start talking trash to each other.
A-Rod does the trash talking, not Jeter.
And if you were actually watching that Pedro thing, it was so obvious that he was saying "I'll hit you right here". We had this debate on here when it happened, and it was very clear.
pacewon
12-15-03, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Judge Mental
unless you know what pedro was saying than speculating (a la tim mccarver) about it is basically pointless. he could have been saying "i'll remember that" "I'll hit you next time you're up" or "you have abnormally large ears" to jorge posada for all we know....
Read his lips. His words were "I'll hit you right here" while pointing to his head. It's that simple.
and furthermore his control was not impeccable in that game or in the entire postseason, he was missing spots all over the place, you can go on believing that he was intentionally trying to put karim garcia on first base in a playoff game, but in my estimation, he was trying to throw up and in, and it got away from him.
He walked 7 batters in 28.1 IP, an average of about 1 walk every 4 innings which is just about the same as his BB/IP during the regular season (3.95). The Yankees whooped his ass because his velocity was down and he was throwing all breaking balls. If you really don't believe he threw at Garcia on purpose I feel sorry for you. First base open, 3 Yankee hits in a row, he was pissed that the Yankees were pummeling everything he threw and his fastball couldn't even hit 90.
if clemens had thrown inside at manny first and everybody on the sox bench started jumping up and screaming at him he probably would've made intimidating gestures at them too, he's certainly not above that sort of behavior, as we saw when he threw part of a bat AT mike piazza.
First of all, Clemens never threw inside to Manny (as many SOX players agreed). Saying that Pedro didnt throw at Garcia on purpose but Clemens did throw the bat AT Piazza is two-faced, contradictive, and terribly off-base. Clemens didn't even look up when he got the bat and how could he know Piazza was gonna run down the line after hitting a FOUL ball? Throwing the bat was stupid, dangerous, senseless, whatever you wanna call it. But if you think he threw it at him on purpose you either 1) Didn't watch the game, or 2) Are looking at things with your Red Sox glasses on (and IMO it's the second of the two in your case).
basically these arguments are cicular and pointless, mistakes were made on both sides, and in the end the sox came out looking like the losers because that's just how the series went
No they didn't come out looking like losers because "that's just how the series went" they came out looking like losers because it was THEIR player who threw a senior citizen to a ground, THEIR player who threw at somebody's head out of frustration, THEIR player who charged the mound on a pitch not even close to him, THEIR player who threatened to hit another player in the head (which should have called for an immediate ejection). Not to mention it was THEIR players who actually had to apologize for Pedro's actions during the bench-clearing, THEIR players who had to admit that the pitch Clemens threw to Manny wasn't even close to him and wasn't intentional in the first place.
but it was still one of the best playoff series i've ever seen in my life and i for one am happy that the yankee and red sox don't like each other anymore, when i was a kid the yankees and red sox fans, players, coaches, and management all hated each other, there was no jeter/nomar pow-wows on second base, guys didn't warm up and stretch together before the games, those guys hated each other, now they do again.....and thank god for it.
For once I agree with you, but NDBoston - don't hold your breath waiting for Jeter to "trash talk".
PippyPinstripes
12-15-03, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by pacewon
No they didn't come out looking like losers because "that's just how the series went" they came out looking like losers because it was THEIR player who threw a senior citizen to a ground, THEIR player who threw at somebody's head out of frustration, THEIR player who charged the mound on a pitch not even close to him, THEIR player who threatened to hit another player in the head (which should have called for an immediate ejection). Not to mention it was THEIR players who actually had to apologize for Pedro's actions during the bench-clearing, THEIR players who had to admit that the pitch Clemens threw to Manny wasn't even close to him and wasn't intentional in the first place.
:D
Unf. Rock.
I actually felt bad for a lot of the classier Sox players who felt like they had to apologize to make up for the antics of the bad apples.
And to address an earlier point, no I would not love Princess Pedro if he was a Yankee. I would still think he was a total schmuck. Although I suspect Yankee mgmt wouldn't coddle him the way his current bosses do. You can certainly tell who wears the pants in that relationship.
I haven't read any of the posts in this thread, but I assume it's all "Good luck in the coming season", "let's have some good clean hard fought battles", "may the best team win" type stuff?
;)
NDBoston
12-15-03, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by pacewon
For once I agree with you, but NDBoston - don't hold your breath waiting for Jeter to "trash talk".
It's not like ARod is like that either. It's rumored the two don't get along now, so I was feeding the fire.
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by OilCan
I haven't read any of the posts in this thread, but I assume it's all "Good luck in the coming season", "let's have some good clean hard fought battles", "may the best team win" type stuff?
;)
I see I missed a lot more of the same here today... is Judgemental or daishan a yanks fan? if so, it was refreshing to read their posts.
a question for anybody who can post a reasoned answer, rather than spewing out a bunch of nonsense: what is wrong with pedro telling Posada "i'll hit you"? (aside: I did think it looked like he was saying that, but why would he speak english to another hispanic player? again - I'm serious with this question - wouldn;t he speak in his native tongue? this isn't a movie, where everybody happens to speak english so that other people can understand.) but back to my main question. first, let's say he did say it - he's jawing with posada. posada's giving a hard time for hitting garcia, maybe saying that he's going to get back at pedro in some way, is it really the end of the world to retort something along the lines of "yeah, I'll hit you, too" maybe not smart to make the motion to his head when on camera, but I'm not talking about being PC. I just see it as more talking trash, but in the heat of an argument. and he didn;t throw at posada - kind of a big difference, isn;t it?
anyway, I can understand people just thinking saying such a thing is going too far, although I disagree, but I would be interested in opinions on why it's so bad. (and why in english...)
PippyPinstripes
12-15-03, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
a question for anybody who can post a reasoned answer, rather than spewing out a bunch of nonsense: what is wrong with pedro telling Posada "i'll hit you"?
I'm sorry, but if you don't know the answer to that question, nobody can help you.
NDBoston
12-15-03, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
I'm sorry, but if you don't know the answer to that question, nobody can help you.
I'm guessing you haven't played baseball.
Originally posted by bosoxfan
I see I missed a lot more of the same here today... is Judgemental or daishan a yanks fan?
No. :)
bosoxfan
12-15-03, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
I'm sorry, but if you don't know the answer to that question, nobody can help you.
seriously, why bother to post crap like this? you sound like my little sister did when we were children. answer the question or move on.
PippyPinstripes
12-15-03, 11:44 PM
Wait a second...is it WEIRD that I think it's wrong to threaten someone?
Judge Mental
12-16-03, 12:05 AM
pace, i usually respect your opinion, but you have some nerve to say i'm looking at the situation with red sox colored glasses......
basically you're just flat-out wrong about pedro, he pointed at his head, but please don't act like you know what he said......unless you heard the words "i'll hit you" come out of his mouth you can speculate all you want, but the reality is he was more than likely yelling in spanish at jorge and karim and despite whatever you guys "decided" he said after discussing it (rationally as possible i'm sure) you really don't know.
oh and of course it was pedro's fault that a defenseless senior citizen charged ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE FIELD.....pedro didn't charge him, he charged pedro, and i'm sure you all would've been hi-fiving if he gave pedro a nice hard uppercut to the chin so save all that "he attacked a defenseless senior citizen" bullsh*t.....we all saw what happened....zimmer knew he screwed up and he apologized, period.
i also didn't realize charging the mound meant yelling "F You" back and forth a couple times from the batters box. manny went into that at-bat expecting to get thrown at, tensions were high and he's not the most mature of players, he overreacted, absolutely, the pitch was high, a little bit inside, but nowhere near anything he should have been angry or threatened about. however he knew he was facing a guy that was not afraid to retalliate for his team and was not above plunking guys intentionally in the postseason. plus when you look at the conduct of manny ramirez in comparison to karim garcia it's not even comporable. manny yelled at clemens, garcia 1.) took out walker 2.)ran into the dugout to help his teammates beat down a stadium worker
oh right i'm sure the stadium worker "had it coming to him" and "got what he deserved" right?
but zimmer didn't do annnnnnnything wrong
heh, red sox bias......that's a good one.
Actually, Manny started walking out toward the mound, before he ordered Jorge and his teammates to restrain him. :)
pacewon
12-16-03, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Judge Mental
pace, i usually respect your opinion, but you have some nerve to say i'm looking at the situation with red sox colored glasses......
I said that you were looking at THE CLEMENS/PIAZZA INCIDENT with Red Sox colored glasses and I see you made no attempt to refute what I said in my previous post. You said Clemens threw the bat AT Piazza but the only way you can think this, as I've said, is 1) you didn't see the game, or 2) you need to take off your Red Sox glasses. I'm beginning to think maybe it's a combination of both
basically you're just flat-out wrong about pedro
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up.
he pointed at his head, but please don't act like you know what he said......unless you heard the words "i'll hit you" come out of his mouth you can speculate all you want, but the reality is he was more than likely yelling in spanish at jorge and karim and despite whatever you guys "decided" he said after discussing it (rationally as possible i'm sure) you really don't know.
You can read Pedro's lips to know what he is saying. He pointed at Posada's head and said "I'll hit you right here" all I can really do is tell you to watch it again and read his lips if you don't believe it, though I bet you'd still deny it. Hell you'd probably still deny it even if Pedro came out and admitted that's what he said. Furthermore, Curtis Pride who you should know (since he homered against the Sox over the summer then the very next game the Yankees won on Walker's error off the bat of Pride, a game that was started by Pedro with half of the Yankees lineup absent after the bottom of the 1st inning) is deaf and his whole life has communicated via lip-reading told reporters that he watched the game and what came out of Pedro's mouth was a threat to hit Posada. So I have visual evidence and a lip-reader on my side, who do you have besides a few Sox fans blinded by the truth?
so save all that "he attacked a defenseless senior citizen" bullsh*t.....we all saw what happened....zimmer knew he screwed up and he apologized, period.
From lying, to denial, to now directly (and intentionally?) misquoting me. I never said Pedro "attacked" Zim I said he threw a senior citizen to the ground. That statement is 100% accurate. And most 31-year olds I know would have the presence of mind to walk away when a 72-year old man who does Preperation H commercials charges after them. In fact, I would think that most 31-year olds would be arrested or at least confronted by police for doing so to a senior
manny went into that at-bat expecting to get thrown at, tensions were high and he's not the most mature of players, he overreacted, absolutely, the pitch was high, a little bit inside, but nowhere near anything he should have been angry or threatened about.
Guess you responded for me.
plus when you look at the conduct of manny ramirez in comparison to karim garcia it's not even comporable. manny yelled at clemens, garcia 1.) took out walker
Except for the fact that moments before taking out Walker, Garcia had a fastball intentionally thrown at his head while Manny didn't. I also find it comical that you are even bringing this up when Todd Walker himself said he had no problem with the take out slide.
2.)ran into the dugout to help his teammates beat down a stadium worker
oh right i'm sure the stadium worker "had it coming to him" and "got what he deserved" right?
I don't blame Garcia for doing what he did. He thought his teammate had been attacked and as we've learned over the past several seasons, fan violence against players can be a serious problem (Gamboa anyone?). I do think Nelson was in the wrong though for starting the whole thing he should have left the guy alone who cares if he's waiving a towel... But as most Yankee fans know, Nelly can be a real idiot sometimes.
heh, red sox bias......that's a good one.
If you are going to respond to this post, I ask you politely to please refrain from 1) blatantly lying, 2) responding in serious denial, and 3) directly misquoting me.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
Wait a second...is it WEIRD that I think it's wrong to threaten someone?
it's weird that you are so irrational. as I requested, my post was "...a question for anybody who can post a reasoned answer, rather than spewing out a bunch of nonsense." if you can address either why he would "threaten" posada in english and/or why a "threat" in the midst of an argument - when you have no idea what jorge was saying to him - is wrong, I'd love to hear it.
but, then, that would mean you'd have to present a logical thought, a capability which you haven;t yet displayed.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
I said that you were looking at THE CLEMENS/PIAZZA INCIDENT with Red Sox colored glasses and I see you made no attempt to refute what I said in my previous post. You said Clemens threw the bat AT Piazza but the only way you can think this, as I've said, is 1) you didn't see the game, or 2) you need to take off your Red Sox glasses. I'm beginning to think maybe it's a combination of both
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up.
You can read Pedro's lips to know what he is saying. He pointed at Posada's head and said "I'll hit you right here" all I can really do is tell you to watch it again and read his lips if you don't believe it, though I bet you'd still deny it. Hell you'd probably still deny it even if Pedro came out and admitted that's what he said. Furthermore, Curtis Pride who you should know (since he homered against the Sox over the summer then the very next game the Yankees won on Walker's error off the bat of Pride, a game that was started by Pedro with half of the Yankees lineup absent after the bottom of the 1st inning) is deaf and his whole life has communicated via lip-reading told reporters that he watched the game and what came out of Pedro's mouth was a threat to hit Posada. So I have visual evidence and a lip-reader on my side, who do you have besides a few Sox fans blinded by the truth?
From lying, to denial, to now directly (and intentionally?) misquoting me. I never said Pedro "attacked" Zim I said he threw a senior citizen to the ground. That statement is 100% accurate. And most 31-year olds I know would have the presence of mind to walk away when a 72-year old man who does Preperation H commercials charges after them. In fact, I would think that most 31-year olds would be arrested or at least confronted by police for doing so to a senior
Guess you responded for me.
Except for the fact that moments before taking out Walker, Garcia had a fastball intentionally thrown at his head while Manny didn't. I also find it comical that you are even bringing this up when Todd Walker himself said he had no problem with the take out slide.
I don't blame Garcia for doing what he did. He thought his teammate had been attacked and as we've learned over the past several seasons, fan violence against players can be a serious problem (Gamboa anyone?). I do think Nelson was in the wrong though for starting the whole thing he should have left the guy alone who cares if he's waiving a towel... But as most Yankee fans know, Nelly can be a real idiot sometimes.
If you are going to respond to this post, I ask you politely to please refrain from 1) blatantly lying, 2) responding in serious denial, and 3) directly misquoting me.
pacewon, thanks for a reasoned, rational response here - and I';m being serious, not sarcastic. while I don't agree with everything you've said (can't speak for judgmental), it's nice to hear a reasonable discussion for the first time in a while on this thread. hopefully other parties, reagrdless of which team they root for, will follow suit or refrain from posting at all. (I'm not optimistic, though...)
pacewon
12-16-03, 12:48 AM
I appreciate that
PippyPinstripes
12-16-03, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
it's weird that you are so irrational. as I requested, my post was "...a question for anybody who can post a reasoned answer, rather than spewing out a bunch of nonsense." if you can address either why he would "threaten" posada in english and/or why a "threat" in the midst of an argument - when you have no idea what jorge was saying to him - is wrong, I'd love to hear it.
but, then, that would mean you'd have to present a logical thought, a capability which you haven;t yet displayed.
I think it's time you put me on ignore, dude. If you don't like what I have to say, don't comment back, and don't send me rude PM's. Just ignore me, it's very simple.
And your last remark is unnecessary. Grow up.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
I think it's time you put me on ignore, dude. If you don't like what I have to say, don't comment back, and don't send me rude PM's. Just ignore me, it's very simple.
And your last remark is unnecessary. Grow up.
actually, dude, I think you're the one who needs to grow up. I'd like to see interesting discussion here, as I'm sure other people would as well, and you repeatedly try to hijack that by with meaningless posts - so the last remark was in fact necessary. and if you found the pm rude, so be it - I wanted to try to avoid wasting other people's time by asking you privately to refrain from meaningless posts.
it's not a matter, btw, of not liking what you have to say - it's the way you say it, and that you say nothing. there are many people here who post things with which I disagree, but I respect their opinions, b/c they are reasonable. I haven't seen you do anything at all along those lines.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
I appreciate that
sure - I'd like to see this thread be revived with some reasonable thoughts, though I'm not sure that will happen at this point. (actually, what was this thread?!)
Judge Mental
12-16-03, 01:01 AM
i'm still not seeing where i "blatantly lied" about anything....but whatever makes you feel better about your feeble arguments.
i'm honestly not trying to pick any fights over here, you came at me with the long-winded "the red sox suck and acted like jackasses" post....
i was watching the game too, i saw hundreds of replays, i could not make out what he was saying, and you couldn't either, bill mueller said after the game that he heard them yelling and it was mostly in spanish and he didn't understand it....so i don't really care what curtis pride thought he saw, mueller was right there and said he wasn't yelling in english so "i'll hit you" is probably not what was said, sorry if you still think i'm blatantly lying or in denial or whatever it is you said i should refrain from doing.
pedro should be arrested? are you serious? who assaulted who? who posed the immediate threat to who? i realize zimmer is an old man, but in what universe is one expected to walk away from someone who is in the middle of CHARGING at them!?! what should he really have done? side-stepped? played matador to zim's toro for a few rousing minutes? there's one person who should be ashamed of his behavior in the pedro/zimmer incident, and he publicly admitted that he was....end of story.
todd walker would have been singing a very different tune if garcia made him twist an ankle or something, believe that.....and once again, there you go with "intentionally thrown at his head".....you don't know that, it just suits your argument better, pedro's intentions in playoff games is getting outs.
by the way, jeter swung at that pitch that hit him in the jeter/soriano game, soriano almost did too, if you think pedro's accuracy is so deft that he could actually place the ball on someone's hands that are wrapped around the barrel of a bat than you're giving pedro more credit than red sox nation ever has
the only reason i'd bring up clemens/piazza is to point out that despite your constant villification of pedro, clemens exhibitis similar tendencies, pedro threw at garcia once, clemens threw at piazza twice and threw part of a bat at him
and yes, i friggin did watch the game, the bat broke off and landed near clemens, he picked it up, and threw it towards piazza.....AT piazza....contradictive? two faced? red sox colored glasses? get a grip.
PippyPinstripes
12-16-03, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
actually, dude, I think you're the one who needs to grow up. I'd like to see interesting discussion here, as I'm sure other people would as well, and you repeatedly try to hijack that by with meaningless posts - so the last remark was in fact necessary. and if you found the pm rude, so be it - I wanted to try to avoid wasting other people's time by asking you privately to refrain from meaningless posts.
it's not a matter, btw, of not liking what you have to say - it's the way you say it, and that you say nothing. there are many people here who post things with which I disagree, but I respect their opinions, b/c they are reasonable. I haven't seen you do anything at all along those lines.
Ohh so you're trying to save the forum from my stupid, meaningless posts? HALLELUJAH!
When were you named moderator?
There is an ignore feature, you or anyone else who posts here can use it. I know it's horrific to have to come here every day and read the immense amount of meaningless, off-topic crap that i clutter the forum with all the time. 2.76 posts a day (http://forums.nyyfans.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=1542) is surely enough to have to call out the forces on me, and rescue the nyyfans.com community from my wretched misuse of a baseball discussion board.
I hereby call on anyone at all who thinks my posts are meaningless and think I have nothing to contribute to feel free to put me on ignore. I promise I won't take it personally. And it saves bosoxfan from having to censor me on your behalf!
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Judge Mental
i was watching the game too, i saw hundreds of replays, i could not make out what he was saying, and you couldn't either, bill mueller said after the game that he heard them yelling and it was mostly in spanish and he didn't understand it....so i don't really care what curtis pride thought he saw, mueller was right there and said he wasn't yelling in english so "i'll hit you" is probably not what was said, sorry if you still think i'm blatantly lying or in denial or whatever it is you said i should refrain from doing.
pedro should be arrested? are you serious? who assaulted who? who posed the immediate threat to who? i realize zimmer is an old man, but in what universe is one expected to walk away from someone who is in the middle of CHARGING at them!?! what should he really have done? side-stepped? played matador to zim's toro for a few rousing minutes? there's one person who should be ashamed of his behavior in the pedro/zimmer incident, and he publicly admitted that he was....end of story.
todd walker would have been singing a very different tune if garcia made him twist an ankle or something, believe that.....and once again, there you go with "intentionally thrown at his head".....you don't know that, it just suits your argument better, pedro's intentions in playoff games is getting outs.
.
I already stated my issue about whether pedro would speak english, and I do share the question re the zimmer incident. (for the record, since some people here are on attack mode, I think that the whole zimmer / pedro thing was terrible. I like zimmer, I like pedro, I like baseball and the rivalry, and it was embarrassing (and scary at first, when zim was down)) really, what hould pedro have done? it's not like he punched zim or tackled him.. he grabbed him byt the first part of the body that came at him - the head - and put him down, and left it at that. should he have run from him? I think it's easy to criticize pedro, but nobody gives very real answers. and frankly, I don't know what I woiuld do, b/c I can;t imagine being charged by a 71-yr old don zimmer.
and re walker, he is a baseball player, and he did a clasy thing by downplaying garcia's actions rather than taking the media's bait and stirring things up further. but garcia acted in a way that could have hurt walker. do i understand him doing it? yes. does that excuse him? no. and, while he took an action that could have hurt walker, many yankees fans excuse that yet try to villify pedro for possibly threatening to hurt posada - something he did not try to do. do you think pedro's idle threat (let's assume they were) truly are worse than garcia's piotentially harmful action?
pacewon, wifflewood, anybody with some thoughts?
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
Ohh so you're trying to save the forum from my stupid, meaningless posts? HALLELUJAH!
When were you named moderator?
There is an ignore feature, you or anyone else who posts here can use it. I know it's horrific to have to come here every day and read the immense amount of meaningless, off-topic crap that i clutter the forum with all the time. 2.76 posts a day (http://forums.nyyfans.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=1542) is surely enough to have to call out the forces on me, and rescue the nyyfans.com community from my wretched misuse of a baseball discussion board.
I hereby call on anyone at all who thinks my posts are meaningless and think I have nothing to contribute to feel free to put me on ignore. I promise I won't take it personally. And it saves bosoxfan from having to censor me on your behalf!
again, zero contribution. (btw, censorship would be preventing you from posting - I've merely requested that you refrain - pretty big difference. can't wait to hear you boasting of constitutional rights, etc...)
pacewon
12-16-03, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Judge Mental
i'm honestly not trying to pick any fights over here, you came at me with the long-winded "the red sox suck and acted like jackasses" post....
I coulda sworn I just asked you to refrain from directly misquoting me.
i was watching the game too, i saw hundreds of replays, i could not make out what he was saying, and you couldn't either, bill mueller said after the game that he heard them yelling and it was mostly in spanish and he didn't understand it....so i don't really care what curtis pride thought he saw, mueller was right there and said he wasn't yelling in english so "i'll hit you" is probably not what was said, sorry if you still think i'm blatantly lying or in denial or whatever it is you said i should refrain from doing.
Ok, so you're taking Mueller's word but are totally gonna disregard what a life-long lip reader saw come out of Pedro's mouth (and fans who watch the replay of it can see the same thing)... I hope you're not puzzled as to where the "Red Sox colored glasses" thing came from.
pedro should be arrested? are you serious?
Again, here you are changing my words around. I never said Pedro should have been arrested. I said most 31-year olds would be arrested or confronted by police for throwing a senior citizen to the ground, even if the senior citizen who is a 72-year old that does hemerrhoid commercials charged after him.
there's one person who should be ashamed of his behavior in the pedro/zimmer incident, and he publicly admitted that he was....end of story.
Zimmer apologized because he is a man of class. And I was glad to find out that Pedro wanted to apologize to Zim. That does not make it right to throw a senior to the ground even if he comes at you. It's not that hard to walk away from a slow old man with a metal plate in his head. I should also point out that it's interesting that Red Sox players actually apologized for Pedro's actions during the bench-clearing, and even David Ortiz, one of Pedro's better friends gave Zim a thumbs up later on in the game when he was on the bases. So you can condone Pedro's actions if you want. His own teammates don't.
todd walker would have been singing a very different tune if garcia made him twist an ankle or something, believe that.....
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. You have more of a problem with the take out slide than Walker does and I find that funny.
by the way, jeter swung at that pitch that hit him in the jeter/soriano game, soriano almost did too, if you think pedro's accuracy is so deft that he could actually place the ball on someone's hands that are wrapped around the barrel of a bat than you're giving pedro more credit than red sox nation ever has
No clue why you decided to bring this up, but for the record, and as bosoxfan can verify, I have publicly stated in another thread that I had no problem with Pedro knocking Sori and Jeter off the plate that day, they both crowd the plate and more pitchers should be knocking guys back these days.
and once again, there you go with "intentionally thrown at his head".....you don't know that, it just suits your argument better, pedro's intentions in playoff games is getting outs.
the only reason i'd bring up clemens/piazza is to point out that despite your constant villification of pedro, clemens exhibitis similar tendencies, pedro threw at garcia once, clemens threw at piazza twice and threw part of a bat at him
and yes, i friggin did watch the game, the bat broke off and landed near clemens, he picked it up, and threw it towards piazza.....AT piazza....contradictive? two faced? red sox colored glasses? get a grip.
I'm glad you did friggin watch that game. Congratu-friggin-lations. I'll point out to you that above you say I only state that Pedro threw at Garcia on purpose because it better suits my argument, but then you directly state, "pedro threw at garcia once" (that was a free lesson in how to directly quote someone without changing their words around, by the way).
Throwing the bat was stupid. Senseless, ridiculous, that thing could have bounced up into the stands and killed someone, what was going through his head? But he did not throw it AT Piazza (talk about saying things just to support one's argument even if it's not true). Clemens didn't look up and most pitchers wouldn't expect somebody to run out a foul ball. So if you did "friggin" watch the game as you friggin said, you friggin had to notice that Clemens never friggin looked up and didn't friggin know that Piazza was running down the friggin line
PippyPinstripes
12-16-03, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
again, zero contribution. (btw, censorship would be preventing you from posting - I've merely requested that you refrain - pretty big difference. can't wait to hear you boasting of constitutional rights, etc...)
That settles it. You're in love with me.
daishan35
12-16-03, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
a question for anybody who can post a reasoned answer, rather than spewing out a bunch of nonsense: what is wrong with pedro telling Posada "i'll hit you"? (aside: I did think it looked like he was saying that, but why would he speak english to another hispanic player? again - I'm serious with this question - wouldn;t he speak in his native tongue? this isn't a movie, where everybody happens to speak english so that other people can understand.) but back to my main question. first, let's say he did say it - he's jawing with posada. posada's giving a hard time for hitting garcia, maybe saying that he's going to get back at pedro in some way, is it really the end of the world to retort something along the lines of "yeah, I'll hit you, too" maybe not smart to make the motion to his head when on camera, but I'm not talking about being PC. I just see it as more talking trash, but in the heat of an argument. and he didn;t throw at posada - kind of a big difference, isn;t it?
anyway, I can understand people just thinking saying such a thing is going too far, although I disagree, but I would be interested in opinions on why it's so bad. (and why in english...)
In my opinion, yeah, they can jaw back-and-forth with each other all they want. that is part of the game and always will be. but even in the heat of the moment i think that it is SO wrong to even gesture at his head, BASICALLY (not necessarily factualy) saying that he would aim for another player's head like that for the simple reason that it is OBVIOUSLY only going to exasperate the situation and truly become a danger not only to the Yankees, but his own teammates as well...who are the ones who have to bat in the next inning (not Pedro)...Especially with Clemens on the mound. It is true that you lose your cool in the situation. but i feel you have to be professional in some respect at all times, and that all actions cannot be written off by saying "it was in the heat of the moment"--which, btw, i an not suggesting is your point. in that regard, Garcia definately should have apologized to Walker (if he didnt already--I really dont know) for the tackle. it was obvious that he was pissed, but IMO it is a hell of a lot easier to seriously injure someone on a take-out slide than it is by throwing at tehm (and before i get flamed--yes, i played baseball and yes i have been hit with a baseball many times).
oh...and my thoughts on what Mueller said about the language. sorry, but i find it hard to believe that simply because, woudlnt he say anything to back up pedro, his team mate? in order to pain him in a better light? cause the part that came outr of his mouth when he pointed to his head REALLY looked distinguishable. guess we'll never know for sure
pacewon
12-16-03, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by daishan35
In my opinion, yeah, they can jaw back-and-forth with each other all they want. that is part of the game and always will be. but even in the heat of the moment i think that it is SO wrong to even gesture at his head, BASICALLY (not necessarily factualy) saying that he would aim for another player's head like that for the simple reason that it is OBVIOUSLY only going to exasperate the situation and truly become a danger not only to the Yankees, but his own teammates as well...who are the ones who have to bat in the next inning (not Pedro)...Especially with Clemens on the mound. It is true that you lose your cool in the situation. but i feel you have to be professional in some respect at all times, and that all actions cannot be written off by saying "it was in the heat of the moment"--which, btw, i an not suggesting is your point. in that regard, Garcia definately should have apologized to Walker (if he didnt already--I really dont know) for the tackle. it was obvious that he was pissed, but IMO it is a hell of a lot easier to seriously injure someone on a take-out slide than it is by throwing at tehm (and before i get flamed--yes, i played baseball and yes i have been hit with a baseball many times).
oh...and my thoughts on what Mueller said about the language. sorry, but i find it hard to believe that simply because, woudlnt he say anything to back up pedro, his team mate? in order to pain him in a better light? cause the part that came outr of his mouth when he pointed to his head REALLY looked distinguishable. guess we'll never know for sure
Excellent post.
Though I disagree with 1 thing... Take out slides can be dangerous but throwing at somebody elses head is on a whole different level
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
I coulda sworn I just asked you to refrain from directly misquoting me.
....
Zimmer apologized because he is a man of class. And I was glad to find out that Pedro wanted to apologize to Zim. That does not make it right to throw a senior to the ground even if he comes at you. It's not that hard to walk away from a slow old man with a metal plate in his head. I should also point out that it's interesting that Red Sox players actually apologized for Pedro's actions during the bench-clearing, and even David Ortiz, one of Pedro's better friends gave Zim a thumbs up later on in the game when he was on the bases. So you can condone Pedro's actions if you want. His own teammates don't.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. You have more of a problem with the take out slide than Walker does and I find that funny.
No clue why you decided to bring this up, but for the record, and as bosoxfan can verify, I have publicly stated in another thread that I had no problem with Pedro knocking Sori and Jeter off the plate that day, they both crowd the plate and more pitchers should be knocking guys back these days.
...
Throwing the bat was stupid. Senseless, ridiculous, that thing could have bounced up into the stands and killed someone, what was going through his head? But he did not throw it AT Piazza (talk about saying things just to support one's argument even if it's not true). Clemens didn't look up and most pitchers wouldn't expect somebody to run out a foul ball. So if you did "friggin" watch the game as you friggin said, you friggin had to notice that Clemens never friggin looked up and didn't friggin know that Piazza was running down the friggin line
he has agreed re the soriano / jeter hbps. a couple questions, pacewon: is it really so unforeseeable, and despicable, for pedro to have pushed zim down considering the circumstances? I haven;t watched the replay in months, but in that situation, with people all around, possibly fighting, if a guy comes at you, don't you react? it seems that he reacted in the gentlest way possible - I don;t know, would need to see the replay. and, as you acknowledge, he apologized. I think people are overlooking the circumstances - people do things they regrt in fights/near fights/heated situations - see the clemens / piazza incident, which I think we all acknowledge to have been stupid. the important thing is to make amends and to try to avoid in future, IMO.
also, pacewon, do you think garcia coming in spkies high was mnore acceptable than pedro's verbal threats? (let's got with mr. pride on this one)
finally, pacewon, be careful asking him to refrain... you may be accused of censorship (probably not, though, since you're a yankees fan)
daishan35
12-16-03, 01:31 AM
right---i should have clarified that i meant throwing at a batter in general. my mistake.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
That settles it. You're in love with me.
again,zero contribution
PippyPinstripes
12-16-03, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
Excellent post.
Though I disagree with 1 thing... Take out slides can be dangerous but throwing at somebody elses head is on a whole different level
See, that's what I'm saying. You can KILL someone doing that. So to threaten hitting someone in the head is a very serious thing.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by daishan35
In my opinion, yeah, they can jaw back-and-forth with each other all they want. that is part of the game and always will be. but even in the heat of the moment i think that it is SO wrong to even gesture at his head, BASICALLY (not necessarily factualy) saying that he would aim for another player's head like that for the simple reason that it is OBVIOUSLY only going to exasperate the situation and truly become a danger not only to the Yankees, but his own teammates as well...who are the ones who have to bat in the next inning (not Pedro)...Especially with Clemens on the mound. It is true that you lose your cool in the situation. but i feel you have to be professional in some respect at all times, and that all actions cannot be written off by saying "it was in the heat of the moment"--which, btw, i an not suggesting is your point. in that regard, Garcia definately should have apologized to Walker (if he didnt already--I really dont know) for the tackle. it was obvious that he was pissed, but IMO it is a hell of a lot easier to seriously injure someone on a take-out slide than it is by throwing at tehm (and before i get flamed--yes, i played baseball and yes i have been hit with a baseball many times).
oh...and my thoughts on what Mueller said about the language. sorry, but i find it hard to believe that simply because, woudlnt he say anything to back up pedro, his team mate? in order to pain him in a better light? cause the part that came outr of his mouth when he pointed to his head REALLY looked distinguishable. guess we'll never know for sure
in fact, I was largely writing it off as meaningless banter - albeit not at all goodnatured banter - in the hear of the moment. but I actually agree with your points re professionalism and re not worsening the situation, esp for teammates.
and my question re language wasn;t based on mueller - that was a different post. it was based on his being from the DR, w/spanish his 1st language, and posada being from PR, with, I assume, spanish as first language. I did think it looked like he was saying I'll hit you, but common sense-wise, it didn;t completely add up. (that said, pedro can speak english, so it's not like I view it as impossible - just unlikely, or at least odd.)
I think garcia was about to apologize when he decided to beat up some fans :)
(actually, the one thing I found very funny about the zimmer / pedro situation is that people thought zim was wells at first. must have made boomer feel good: David, so glad you're ok, we thought you were the fat 71-year old rolling on the ground.)
pacewon
12-16-03, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
he has agreed re the soriano / jeter hbps. a couple questions, pacewon: is it really so unforeseeable, and despicable, for pedro to have pushed zim down considering the circumstances? I haven;t watched the replay in months, but in that situation, with people all around, possibly fighting, if a guy comes at you, don't you react? it seems that he reacted in the gentlest way possible - I don;t know, would need to see the replay. and, as you acknowledge, he apologized. I think people are overlooking the circumstances - people do things they regrt in fights/near fights/heated situations - see the clemens / piazza incident, which I think we all acknowledge to have been stupid. the important thing is to make amends and to try to avoid in future, IMO.
I think it was wrong. And I'll never be convinced that a 31-year old in athlete condition cannot dodge a 72-year old with bad knees, hemerrhoids, and a metal plate in his head.
also, pacewon, do you think garcia coming in spkies high was mnore acceptable than pedro's verbal threats? (let's got with mr. pride on this one)
Yes I do, as the saying goes, an eye for an eye. Where I think Garcia was wrong though, is that if he wanted revenge, he should have went after Pedro and whooped his ass. Instead he went after somebody who didn't have anything to do with it. But that's baseball. What happened the very next inning after Clemens hit Piazza? Glendon Rusch nailed Tino Martinez. What happened the very next inning after Clemens brushed back A-Rod in the playoffs in 2003? Paul Abbott brushed back Jorge Posada. That's how it goes. They didn't have anything to do with it but retaliation had to be taken somewhere. Garcia's take out slide was just part of baseball. Pedro threw at Garcia's head so Garcia retaliated. Even Walker understood it and told the media he had no problem with it and didn't blame Garcia for doing what he did.
PippyPinstripes
12-16-03, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
again,zero contribution
Do you know what the most fun part of this is? Getting you to keep posting pointing out that my posts aren't contributing anything. The irony is freaking adorable!
That said, I apologize to the sane members of this forum for having to wade through this. I'm dropping it now. :)
daishan35
12-16-03, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
and my question re language wasn;t based on mueller - that was a different post.
right---sorry agian, I forgot to quote that post, but it was that one i was referring to, not yours.
I think garcia was about to apologize when he decided to beat up some fans :)
lol: :lol:
(actually, the one thing I found very funny about the zimmer / pedro situation is that people thought zim was wells at first. must have made boomer feel good: David, so glad you're ok, we thought you were the fat 71-year old rolling on the ground.) :
yeah, i have forgiven pedro for that. if zim can, why cant I? i must admit though. I just really dont like pedro that much. cant really explain it, but i know it isnt simply because he is a red sox. he just really doesnt seem like...well, a professional to me. altough i must admit i laughed my ass of at what he said about the curse of the bambino.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
See, that's what I'm saying. You can KILL someone doing that. So to threaten hitting someone in the head is a very serious thing.
well, I understand your point now, but we obviously disagree. to me, a threat to do something in the middle of an argument in the middle of a game, even if that action could seriously hurt the othe party, really isn't a big deal - very different from a threat to somebody in the "real world."
I do agree with daishan's post, though, re it being irresponsible and unprofessional, regardless of the circumstance.
daishan35
12-16-03, 01:46 AM
man...i need to learn how to quote posts better...
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by pacewon
I think it was wrong. And I'll never be convinced that a 31-year old in athlete condition cannot dodge a 72-year old with bad knees, hemerrhoids, and a metal plate in his head.
Yes I do, as the saying goes, an eye for an eye. Where I think Garcia was wrong though, is that if he wanted revenge, he should have went after Pedro and whooped his ass. Instead he went after somebody who didn't have anything to do with it. But that's baseball. What happened the very next inning after Clemens hit Piazza? Glendon Rusch nailed Tino Martinez. What happened the very next inning after Clemens brushed back A-Rod in the playoffs in 2003? Paul Abbott brushed back Jorge Posada. That's how it goes. They didn't have anything to do with it but retaliation had to be taken somewhere. Garcia's take out slide was just part of baseball. Pedro threw at Garcia's head so Garcia retaliated. Even Walker understood it and told the media he had no problem with it and didn't blame Garcia for doing what he did.
fair enough re pedro.
re garcia, I don't blame him for doing it. I just think it was worse than pedro (probaly) making threatening gesture at posada, as it was just that - a gesture. (and walker shouldn;t have a problem wiuth it - that's why I said he's a "baseball player" - unlike a lot of players today (including Manny, in the clemens at bat), he "gets it.")
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
Do you know what the most fun part of this is? Getting you to keep posting pointing out that my posts aren't contributing anything. The irony is freaking adorable!
That said, I apologize to the sane members of this forum for having to wade through this. I'm dropping it now. :)
again, zero contribution - and I was getting hoipeful after the last post - you see, it isn't "irony." you've been listening to too much Alanis morrissette, I guess.
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by daishan35
:
yeah, i have forgiven pedro for that. if zim can, why cant I? i must admit though. I just really dont like pedro that much. cant really explain it, but i know it isnt simply because he is a red sox. he just really doesnt seem like...well, a professional to me. altough i must admit i laughed my ass of at what he said about the curse of the bambino.
hey, more rational that my dislike of duke or of jeter - despite admiring both, and knowing I should like them, I just don't. (and re jeter, at least, it's far less understandable than a dislike for pedro)
daishan35
12-16-03, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by bosoxfan
hey, more rational that my dislike of duke or of jeter - despite admiring both, and knowing I should like them, I just don't. (and re jeter, at least, it's far less understandable than a dislike for pedro)
jesus. you dont like jeter? forget anything nice i ever said about you. you sir, are a freak of nature. :)
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by daishan35
jesus. you dont like jeter? forget anything nice i ever said about you. you sir, are a freak of nature. :)
it is odd, b/c I admire him as a player and as a winner - but for some reason I just don't like him. (I'm absolutely sure I would love him on the sox, and maybe it' just that he's on the yanks - except that I've liked a lot of yankees: posada now, pettitte recently, thurm, nettles, etc. long ago...) maybe it's the ads he did with george :)
PippyPinstripes
12-16-03, 02:05 AM
Ignore my horrid misuse of the word "irony"...I'm sure that will make even MORE people put me on ignore! Just not you. (psst, here's where you say, "I won't ignore you because you amuse me" or some other such attempt at a cut. Then, you can call me on my reneging my vow to drop it. Practically textbook.)
I'll correct myself. The PARADOX is adorable. Even more so now that you've done it again!
And now, I really do drop it. But please, feel free to point out that this post is "zero contribution" :D
(more apologies to the forum peeps. I'll bring some yummy microbrew to the forum party as an offering)
bosoxfan
12-16-03, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by PippyPinstripes
Ignore my horrid misuse of the word "irony"...I'm sure that will make even MORE people put me on ignore! Just not you. (psst, here's where you say, "I won't ignore you because you amuse me" or some other such attempt at a cut. Then, you can call me on my reneging my vow to drop it. Practically textbook.)
I'll correct myself. The PARADOX is adorable. Even more so now that you've done it again!
And now, I really do drop it. But please, feel free to point out that this post is "zero contribution" :D
(more apologies to the forum peeps. I'll bring some yummy microbrew to the forum party as an offering)
no worries re irony - paradox much better. and no dialog on the ignore - but microbrew - I apologize for having thought less of you than I should have (and clearly, you would be contributing with that)
in all seriousness, have a good night.
Yankchic22
12-16-03, 04:56 AM
This thread cracks me up :lol:
Pedro's cuff
12-16-03, 05:41 AM
back...and to the left.
NDBoston
12-16-03, 07:06 AM
a few points and back to the topic
I have thrown at and have been thrown at playing baseball. IT's a part of baseball. you don't go for the guys head. (Pedro wasn't going for Garcia's and the video proves that. I watched the pitch 500 times TIVO rocks)
This stuff has been going on for as long as baseball has. In an exhibition game between Detroit and the Giants in 1916, Ty Cobb took umbrage with an inside pitch and decided to slash his spikes into Giants' infielder Buck Herzog later in the game. After he was once again brushed back by a pitch (from Jeff Tesreau), Cobb challenged Herzog, Tesreau and the rest of the New York team to fight. The story goes that Herzog and Cobb fought on the field, under the stands after the game, and in Cobb's room at the hotel later that night. This wasn't even a REAL game!!!
Look at Don Drysdale.He called his under the chin pitch his backup slider. Juan Marchial, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan and Walter Johnson say hi too.
Doc Ellis who played for years on the Yanks was a notorious headhunter.
Pitchers should be able to go inside without hitters freaking out. I'm glad Clemens and Pedro weren't afraid to do that. I'm a baseball tradtionalist though.
OK enough of the venting.
Pedro's cuff
12-16-03, 07:14 AM
Does this mean charges won't be filed against Martinez after all?
junkman73
12-16-03, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston
Pitchers should be able to go inside without hitters freaking out. I'm glad Clemens and Pedro weren't afraid to do that. I'm a baseball tradtionalist though.
No argument there. Pitchers should be able to go up and in to get their point across...that's why they call it "chin music" or a "brushback" pitch, and that's why its been used for ages in baseball. The problem with Pedro's pitch to Garcia was that it was behind his head. A pitch like that plays to the batter's natural tendency to back away from something coming towards him, making it a very dangerous pitch.
Even when Pedro hit Soriano and Jeter at YS earlier in the year, he was pitching inside to two guys who dive over the plate. No problems there. Even though he took 2 shots at Jeter. He could have just as easily thrown one inside at Garcia's mid-section. I think he was frustrated he was getting whacked around a little in front of the home-town fans and decided to plunk Garcia. You want to hit him, fine, throw it at his ass or his ribs. Even give him the chin-music if you want. But don't go behind the head.
NDBoston
12-16-03, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by junkman73
No argument there. Pitchers should be able to go up and in to get their point across...that's why they call it "chin music" or a "brushback" pitch, and that's why its been used for ages in baseball. The problem with Pedro's pitch to Garcia was that it was behind his head. A pitch like that plays to the batter's natural tendency to back away from something coming towards him, making it a very dangerous pitch.
Even when Pedro hit Soriano and Jeter at YS earlier in the year, he was pitching inside to two guys who dive over the plate. No problems there. Even though he took 2 shots at Jeter. He could have just as easily thrown one inside at Garcia's mid-section. I think he was frustrated he was getting whacked around a little in front of the home-town fans and decided to plunk Garcia. You want to hit him, fine, throw it at his ass or his ribs. Even give him the chin-music if you want. But don't go behind the head.
Good post.
Junk i agree on everything but where Pedro was going. Garcia ducked down and the ball hit him in the shoulder. That was headed for the middle of his back.
We can agree to disagree on that one.
Bluesexy's daddy
12-17-03, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by patrick.o
Wow, usually the parade in Boston is in April or May. Now they're getting fitted for their rings in December! :lol:
They finaly realized that May is too late for the parade. Best to do it while there is still complete confidence.
Judge Mental
12-17-03, 11:07 AM
yeah honestly i really wasn't trying to get into some argument about the morals and ethics of what happened in that game and who was right and who wasn't.
i never said anywhere the red sox were guilt-free in that whole mess, and never did i try to pass off my opinion on what happened as fact, i'm a sox fan, i saw it how i saw it, you saw it how you saw it, fans of other teams saw it and that's how it goes. i know i'm not going to change anyone's mind over here, i'm not trying to, don't bother trying with me....the point i was trying to drive home is that whether or not you're a sox or yanks fan, that game (and the whole series in general, but that game especially) fueled the sox/yanks rivalry to the point of unfriendliness, mistakes were made on both ends, violence was threatened and carried out on both ends, neither team was guilty of doing the right thing, in that situation, and rather than bicker over who was right and who was wrong, i prefer to sit back and get ready for 19 games (is it 19 regular season games again this year?) between two of the best and most improved teams in the league, that just so happen to be playing for the same spot, in the same division, and oh yeah, they hate each other. i'm pretty sure we can all agree that this is going to be spectacular
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