View Full Version : Braves acquire Giants' Ortiz for Moss, minor leaguer; Atl also adds Paul Byrd
Carissa
12-17-02, 10:04 AM
Braves acquire Giants' Ortiz for Moss, minor leaguer
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20021217/ap-braves-giantstrade.html
ATLANTA (AP) -- Right-hander Russ Ortiz joined the Atlanta Braves from the NL champion San Francisco Giants on Tuesday in a trade for starter Damian Moss and a minor leaguer.
Ortiz was 14-10 last season with a 3.78 ERA, helping the Giants reach the World Series. ADVERTISEMENT
For his career, the 27-year-old Ortiz is 67-44 with a 4.01 ERA.
``Russ was the Giants' No. 1 starter last year and has demonstrated on a consistent basis his ability to be a top-of-rotation starter,'' Braves general manager John Schuerholz said.
Atlanta manager Bobby Cox said Ortiz ``has proven major league ability and he should do very well for us.''
Moss, a 26-year-old Australian, went 12-6 with a 4.11 ERA as the Braves' fifth starter last season, his first in the majors. The left-hander signed with the Braves as a free agent in 1993 and spent seven years in their minor league system.
Atlanta also sent Manuel Mateo to San Francisco. The right-hander was 7-3 with a 1.98 ERA in 12 games for the Braves' rookie team in the Gulf Coast League.
The trade continues the revamping of Atlanta's starting rotation. The Braves previously acquired left-hander Mike Hampton, and lost Tom Glavine to the New York Mets via free agency.
Another top Braves starter, Greg Maddux, is also a free agent.
Damn. Ortiz was a good fallback position for the Yanks. The Braves gave up a lot for him.
Michaels07
12-17-02, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Spiker
Damn. Ortiz was a good fallback position for the Yanks. The Braves gave up a lot for him.
Does this mean they won`t sign Maddux?
I think they will still work something out with Maddox. Right now they have Hampton,Ortiz,Millwood & Marquis for a rotation they need Maddox to anchor this suspect rotation.
Originally posted by Michaels07
Does this mean they won`t sign Maddux?
I don't know. Ortiz is not that expensive. I don't really know what his contract status is, but he made $3.6 million last year. 2003 will be his sixth season, so it's possible this is his walk year.
Meanwhile, what I'm hearing on the Maddux front is that Boras is getting zero takers for Maddux at any price for five years. And that Boras is threatening to go to arbitration and ask for $20 million (that's not a typo) and stands a chance of getting it. There's never been a player of Maddux's quality go to arbitration, so who knows but that he doesn't get it. The Braves can't risk that, so I'm betting they almost have to sign him. And at a $13 million salary in 2003, Maddux figures to get a hefty pay increase, say $15 million. Thus the Braves might added about $20 million to payroll, while only losing the $8 million Glavine made last year and a couple of million for Ligtenberg and Hammond for a net payroll increase of $10 million. And they're under orders to cut payroll. It would be a solid rotation but they have holes in a lot of other areas. They desperately need a 1st baseman at least, and they have no bullpen after Smoltz.
I don't get this move from the Braves point of view, unless they intend to turn Ortiz in another deal. Ortiz for NJ?
b-ball-lunachick
12-17-02, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Spiker
I don't get this move from the Braves point of view, unless they intend to turn Ortiz in another deal.
it does seem like the Braves are heavy on SP with some other holes still to fill...if they keepe Ortiz, I don't think Maddux will be a Brave next year...
Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
it does seem like the Braves are heavy on SP with some other holes still to fill...if they keepe Ortiz, I don't think Maddux will be a Brave next year...
They might not have a choice. That's the danger of offering arbitration to a big time player.
Carissa
12-17-02, 02:07 PM
Braves follow Ortiz trade with deal for Byrd
http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1217/1478526.html
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Associated Press
ATLANTA -- The Atlanta Braves agreed to a two-year contract with free-agent pitcher Paul Byrd on Tuesday, just hours after acquiring Russ Ortiz from the San Francisco Giants.
The move, confirmed by a team source who spoke on the condition of anonymity, was to be announced later Tuesday.
Byrd pitched for Atlanta in 1997 and 1998 and went 17-11 last season with a 3.90 ERA for the Kansas City Royals.
Atlanta is quickly revamping its rotation following the loss of Tom Glavine, who signed with the New York Mets, and the possible departure of Greg Maddux, also a free agent.
The Braves already have acquired Mike Hampton from Colorado as part of a three-way deal that also included Florida.
Maddux has until Thursday to accept the Braves' offer of salary arbitration.
Byrd had also been negotiating with the Royals.
Ortiz, 14-10 last season with a 3.61 ERA, was acquired for pitcher Damian Moss and minor league right-hander Manuel Mateo.
Bozidar
12-17-02, 02:11 PM
damn :( another one off the block. he was a sleeper, i thought..
Now, I'm sure something is going on. As it stands at this moment, they have Hampton, Millwood, Marquis, Ortiz and Byrd and with Maddux's agent hinting pretty broadly that the pitcher might accept arbitration. Something's got to give here. With that rotation and the Smoltz and nobody bullpen and a pretty anemic offense, the Braves stand a good chance of finishing last in the AL East.
Byrd for 5 million per season...not a bad deal for the Braves...
Carissa
12-17-02, 03:39 PM
Whenever I think of Byrd, I think of him telling Schilling to shut his pie-hole (here (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32131)). :lol:
b-ball-lunachick
12-17-02, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Carissa
Whenever I think of Byrd, I think of him telling Schilling to shut his pie-hole (here (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32131)). :lol:
:lol:
he seems like a pretty decent guy -- aside from him offering KC a reasonable deal, I remember reading a story last year about his KC fans that call themselves the Byrds' Nest or something last year...he would send up water to the upper deck -- and saying something about how hot it is and he felt sorry for them and how he wished he could send them beer but wasn't sure if they were of age or something like that...
Bozidar
12-17-02, 03:51 PM
:lol: I remember that now :)
b-ball-lunachick
12-17-02, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Spiker
Now, I'm sure something is going on. As it stands at this moment, they have Hampton, Millwood, Marquis, Ortiz and Byrd and with Maddux's agent hinting pretty broadly that the pitcher might accept arbitration. Something's got to give here. With that rotation and the Smoltz and nobody bullpen and a pretty anemic offense, the Braves stand a good chance of finishing last in the AL East.
I think you're right Spiker...something is brewing...
I heard about this deal in the car and Met fans were already calling in asking why Phillips didn't get Byrd who is younger over Glavine lol :D ...and I also heard that Neagle deal is dead with the Mets...but the Braves wouldn't make a trade with the Mets...wonder who they will be dealing with soon...
got any ideas? :D
Yanksagain
12-17-02, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Spiker
As it stands at this moment, they have Hampton, Millwood, Marquis, Ortiz and Byrd and with Maddux's agent hinting pretty broadly that the pitcher might accept arbitration. Something's got to give here. With that rotation and the Smoltz and nobody bullpen and a pretty anemic offense, the Braves stand a good chance of finishing last in the AL East.
If Maddux returns the rotation could be:
Maddux
Hampton
Millwood
Ortiz
Byrd
Wow. That is one heck of a rotation. They still need some bullpen depth with Hammond, Remlinger and Spooney gone. But, that rotation will compete with any in the NL. The Braves are always lacking a bit on offense, yet they win the NL East each year. They'll be at the top again if they can fill in the missing pieces of the bullpen.
deranged2005
12-17-02, 03:58 PM
Wow. Can the Braves get any more pitching?? They really always get some pitcher who helps them win.
At least Byrd is out of the AL. He gave up a lot of homers though, kinda fun to see the Yankee swing against him.
C. Bellinger
12-17-02, 04:59 PM
BRAVES ROTATION
Millwood
Ortiz
Byrd
Hampton
Not counting if Maddux returns, I would say that this is the Official Rotation of Underachivers, replacing the Mets rotation of last year (Leiter, Astacio, D'Amico, Estes, Trachsel).
Millwood: 75-46 career record, with 18-7 and 18-8 years serving as the anchors for 10-13, 7-7 years
Paul Byrd: 52-46 career record, with 15-11 and 17-11 years serving as the anchors for 2-9, 6-7 years
Okay, Russ Ortiz isn't an underachiever. But his ERA has never been below 3.00, and last year was good, not great (14-10).
Mike Hampton: 22-4, it's like an oasis in a career of .500 seasons. 10-10, 15-10, 11-7, 15-10, 14-13, 7-15...hmm...
This is either gonna be some sort of annoying miracle (can you hear Joe Buck now: "An inspiring story. They thought these guys were out. They wrote Kevin Millwood, Paul Byrd, and Mike Hampton off. Now, they're going for the gold...") or hilarious flop.
Originally posted by Yanksagain
If Maddux returns the rotation could be:
Maddux
Hampton
Millwood
Ortiz
Byrd
Wow. That is one heck of a rotation. They still need some bullpen depth with Hammond, Remlinger and Spooney gone. But, that rotation will compete with any in the NL. The Braves are always lacking a bit on offense, yet they win the NL East each year. They'll be at the top again if they can fill in the missing pieces of the bullpen.
Assuming Hampton returns to something approaching his old form and the Braves get the good Millwood, instead of the mediocre one (you never know with Kevin), it would be the deepest rotation in the NL by far and probably the deepest in the majors depending on how the Yanks situation shakes out. It's also never going to happen -- probably.
According to press accounts, the Braves will be held to a strict $90 million budget which is essentially a status quo situation and means something is wrong here. They save $8 million on Glavine and about $2 million or so on the bullpen departures. But that's more than wiped out by the acqustions of Ortiz and Byrd. The only way Maddux comes back is if he accepts arbitration and if that occurs he's going to get a $3 million to $7 million increase for 2003. That puts them over budget. And they still have no first baseman. Their 3B man is Castillo (enough said). And the bullpen consists of Smoltz and Ray King, an good lefty specialist but out of his depths if he's forced to face righties. I suppose Marquis would be shifted back to the pen and he'd be decent there. That still leaves them three arms short and dependent on using rookies or getting lucky feasting off the junk pile for the second year in a row.
My guess is that either they were told the payroll could go a little higher or they have some understanding that Maddux won't accept arbitration or they are planning on trading either Ortiz or Byrd or both.
Like I said in another thread, this is the weirdest offseason in history.
Originally posted by Spiker
That still leaves them three arms short and dependent on using rookies or getting lucky feasting off the junk pile for the second year in a row. somehow i think the braves bullpen will be fine. they have a knack for finding cheap available players and turning them into useful relievers. they've done it year after year.
and there are still A LOT of relief pitchers still on the market. over 25 from a quick look at the list of remaining free agents. its a good bet there will be another 10-15+ available after teams decide wether or not to offer contracts in the next few day. there will be a lot of serviceable relievers available dirt cheap at some point this off-season. the braves will undoubtably manage to pick out the best of them.
Originally posted by jyjjy
somehow i think the braves bullpen will be fine. they have a knack for finding cheap available players and turning them into useful relievers. they've done it year after year.
They do indeed. There's no denying that. But if the budget is as strict as they're saying it is, then the three new arms they need will all have to be minimum wage guys. Don't get me wrong, I think somehow, someway the Braves will once again be a terrific pitching team. But they've done nothing to bolster the offense, which is their weakness. And with their payroll problems I don't see how they're going to be able to do anything -- unless they plan on turning around Ortiz or Byrd for hitting. The Braves were 10th in the NL in offense. That ain't going to get it done.
Contrary to all this nonsense that it's pitching that wins or it's this kind of offense or that kind of offense, what wins is balance. Teams that have no exploitable weaknesses win. Unbalanced teams like the Braves can get into the playoffs but they seldom go all the way.
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