The 100% official, no additives, welcome-to-the-HtH-League thread! [Archive]

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Saxmania

03-06-02, 05:23 AM

Well, that's that. Entries are now CLOSED for the Bronx-Bombers.com Head-to-Head League, and the myriads who were scrabbling at the gate will be forced to watch in envy as the lucky 20 owners carve up the baseball world. Heh. Meglomania - I love it.

Here are the lucky (well, prompt) 20 owners taking part:

1. Bozidar
2. Gator
3. yankeesrule2000
4. Coney36
5. 1TonHamsterWheel
6. SanFrANKSY
7. BackBackBackBackGone
8. joltinjo
9. #1PaFan
10. jroll10
11. Yanksagain
12. Ryguy 22984
13. BrianNYYanks
14. pjyankees
15. KLJ
16. www.majorleague.de
17. Ansky39
18. Saxmania
19. YankeeTom
20. b-ball-lunachick

All owners - if you haven't yet sent in your $10 payment for the league, please do so over the next few days. When making the payment, please be SURE to include a note explaining what it's for. The league in question is already set up, and is just waiting for owners to arrive (I'm already there, so I get dibs on the best seat). Once payment has been received, Boz or myself will PM you with the details of the league, plus the password, so that you may create your team. Please don't be needlessly awkward with your chosen team names, as we're going to be using them quite a lot.

Since you all are shelling out for something better than your basic Yahoo.com free league, it's time to tell you how this is going to work. We're going to use a points-based scoring system (details below), but Yahoo.com doesn't allow us to do this in a Head-to-Head league. So instead of just having one big league table (which is really boring for everyone except the top few owners), we're going to run our own schedule. Yahoo.com will calculate weekly points totals for each team, and we will then post the results of each match-up according to the schedule that has been arranged.

Sounds complex; in actual fact, it's simplicity itself. All your team details, transactions, and management will be done online, and the results of each week's matchups will be posted in this forum, probably each Sunday evening. So the league table that Yahoo.com will display is irrelevant for our purposes - we'll be using our own. No extra work for the owners; a little extra work for the commissioners; but a much better league at the end of the day. You paid the money - you get the results. We may even try and get an independent website up with schedules, tables, and extra stuff, if we have the time. Don't thank us all at once.

Here's how the league is going to be organized:

2 Leagues - the Century League and the Dynasty League (names courtesy of Bozidar Imaginations, Inc.)
2 divisions in each league (named for former Yankee players, courtesy of the vote on this forum)
5 teams in each division, for a grand total of 10 in each league and 20 overall.

Each team will play 2 games (home and away) against teams in the same division, and 1 game (home or away) against teams in the other 3 divisions, for a grand total of 23 regular season games. So we get an unbalanced schedule. We will then have the division winners play each other in week 25, and the winners of the leagues play in week 26. Week 15 is the All-Star Break, and there will be no games for us either, since the lack of real-life games makes managing difficult then. By the end of Week 26, there will be 2 Division winners, 1 League winner, and 1 Champion.

Because of the schedule, teams will have uneven numbers of home and away games. The difference will never be more than 1 game (so 11 or 12 home games), but it will exist. This is an unavoidable side-effect of having 20 players, and we thought it was more important to get everyone playing who wanted to. The scheduling is randomized, so luck of the draw applies here.

Points scoring is done through this method:

Batting:

Single = 1 point
Double = 2 ponts
Triple = 3 points
Home Run = 4 points
Walk = 1 point
RBI = 1 point
Run scored = 1 point
Stolen base = 1 point
Caught stealing = -1 point
GIDP = -1 point

Pitching:

Win = 10 points
Complete Game = 10 points
Save = 5 points
Hold = 1 point
Out Recorded = 1 point
Hit Allowed = -1 point
Walk Allowed = -1 point
Run Allowed = -2 points
Strikeout = 1 point
Intentional Walk Allowed = 1 point (to counteract Walk Allowed penalty)

As you can see, pitchers get on average more points per appearance, but make far less appearances than hitters, so balance should be preserved. The basic principle is 1 point per out, and 1 point per base, with extra points for wins, saves, holds, and complete games to reward pitchers for "situational" pitching. Any tie games will be won by the HOME TEAM, rather than being scored as draws (which are unrealistc and complicate league tables). So there is a marginal advantage to playing at home.

Rosters:

Rosters are fairly similar to real-life MLB rosters, with a few adjustments. Active rosters consist of 20 players, with 3 bench slots and 2 DL slots. Here's how they break down:

Line-up:

Catcher
Catcher
1st Baseman
2nd Baseman
Shortstop
3rd Baseman
Middle Infielder
Outfielder
Outfielder
Outfielder
Outfielder
Utility (equivalent of DH)

Pitchers:

Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher
Starting Pitcher
Pitcher (can be either Starter or Reliever)
Relief Pitcher
Relief Pitcher
Relief Pitcher

Bench:

Bench Player
Bench Player
Bench Player

Note: Bench players do not contribute to points totals for the week.

Rosters are set each SATURDAY midnight, so a weekly series runs from Sunday to Saturday. This allows commissioners time to get a week's results completed before Monday, and kicks off each series with a round of games on Sunday.

Miscellaneous:

Players are on waivers for 7 days - quite a long time, but this allows for owners who don't get online so much. Trades and free agent signings are free and unlimited, and the deadline for trades is August 21st. If you want to protest a trade to the commissioners, you have 7 days to do so.

That seems to be that. If you have any serious problems with the arrangements, then say so - but not the "That's not the way I played last year!" kind of problems, just the "The Earth will crash into the Sun if we use this set-up!" type. Several of us have spent a few weeks debating and experimenting with the structure, so it should be solid, and we're never going to please everyone.

If we see anyone willing to act as minor league commissioner, we can enact an OPTIONAL rule to let managers sign minor league players and promote them during the season, but it's not necessary. Any takers?

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Ansky39

03-06-02, 07:18 AM

2 starting catchers, 5 starting infielders, 4 starting outfielders AND a dh???

i couldda swore we settled on 1 catcher 4 infielders a dh and 3 outfielders... ya know like the real game...

maybe i got out voted and didn't realize it, but seems to me, it's gonna be awful hard finding 20 productive starting catchers (2 per team), and 60 productive starting infielders...

oh welll c'est la vie.... i'm in 5 other leagues so it's no biggie... i'll send in my dough tomorrow...

Saxmania

03-06-02, 07:44 AM

I don't know if you got it, but I sent around a PM to all the "planners" with some updated ideas for roster and schedules about a week ago. The feeling was that we were falling behind on getting the details out, and the roster was sort of a compromise between the different options we had gone through before. On the Archives, our vote came out at a 23-man roster, and I assumed the bench wouldn't be more than 3 players (otherwise we'd have a bench of around 6 or 7).

The second catcher slot is meant as a "backup" rather than a particularly productive slot, and 20 teams x 23 players = 460, which we need to choose out of 750 real-life major leaguers. We can move the backup catcher slot to the bench if people prefer, though.

Regarding infielders: The Fantasy Baseball Guide I picked up covered 40 or 50 players for each infield position. Assuming that at least 20 out of 30 MLB teams have 'set' starters at each position, every team should be able to find someone. But, again, if everyone thinks this is OTT, we can move things around a little.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Ansky39

03-06-02, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Saxmania
The second catcher slot is meant as a "backup" rather than a particularly productive slot, and 20 teams x 23 players = 460, which we need to choose out of 750 real-life major leaguers. We can move the backup catcher slot to the bench if people prefer, though.

Regarding infielders: The Fantasy Baseball Guide I picked up covered 40 or 50 players for each infield position. Assuming that at least 20 out of 30 MLB teams have 'set' starters at each position, every team should be able to find someone. But, again, if everyone thinks this is OTT, we can move things around a little.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

oh, i see the miscommunication... when i voted on a roster of 23, i intended that to include starters and a bench including 16 starters (9 pos players snad 7 pitchers)... i guess it's getting kinda late so i don't want to start a whole new round of debates on this and as i've said since day 1 i'll go w/ the consensus, but i just don't understand the need or desire to exceed the normal starting lineup... what's the need for two catchers and 5 infielders 4 outfielders as opposed to the real life 1 catcher and 4 infielders 3 outfileders and a dh? as i noted in our preliminary discussions, the more slots you give a team the less incentive for trade activity, the less available quality free agents on the market which equals less league activity...

and another thing i just noticed for the first time is you're awarding 10points for a complete game and 5 for a save... in my expereince a save as is valuable as a win, and to diminish it to 50% the value of a win diminsihes the value of closers relative to sp's... that means a sp who wins on a complete game will get 20 points... seems like an awful lot to me and may distort the scoring, but that's your call...

anyways sax and boz et al, i appreciate all your efforts on this and i don't want to start another round of debates, i just thought we had settled this a month ago and now i'm noticing differences from our previous discussions... either way i will go along w/ whatever youz decide...

later,

Saxmania

03-06-02, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Ansky39

oh, i see the miscommunication... when i voted on a roster of 23, i intended that to include starters and a bench including 16 starters (9 pos players snad 7 pitchers)... i guess it's getting kinda late so i don't want to start a whole new round of debates on this and as i've said since day 1 i'll go w/ the consensus, but i just don't understand the need or desire to exceed the normal starting lineup... what's the need for two catchers and 5 infielders 4 outfielders as opposed to the real life 1 catcher and 4 infielders 3 outfileders and a dh? as i noted in our preliminary discussions, the more slots you give a team the less incentive for trade activity, the less available quality free agents on the market which equals less league activity...

and another thing i just noticed for the first time is you're awarding 10points for a complete game and 5 for a save... in my expereince a save as is valuable as a win, and to diminish it to 50% the value of a win diminsihes the value of closers relative to sp's... that means a sp who wins on a complete game will get 20 points... seems like an awful lot to me and may distort the scoring, but that's your call...

To take the last point first (;)) on average a great closer will get twice as many saves (40 or so) as a great pitcher will get wins (20 or so). On that reasoning, I figured that making them equal in value would involve balancing out the points totals that way. It was really Boz's suggestion, though, so I'm going to pass the buck a little on this one. Complete games are fairly rare anyway, so I wasn't thinking that they would unbalance the game. And, of course, starters are considered more valuable than relievers in real life.

I think the idea with the extended roster is to reflect MLB, where you have to have backups in certain positions - you can't get away with just one catcher or three outfielders; you need to have a replacement to play in case of day-to-day injuries or platooning matchups. In fantasy play, you can get away with just missing out a day's worth of stats (unlike real life, where you have to have SOMEONE to play the position), but having more starters means that owners have to have depth to their lineup. 7 also seems like a lot for a bench, since you could stockpile players who you have no intention of inserting in your lineup (e.g. catchers) to hurt the rest of the league.

But again, if others feel that this is not a good thing, then I'm sure we'll try some other ideas. Feedback encouraged, and Ansky raises some very good points. How do other owners feel?

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Bozidar

03-06-02, 08:26 AM

as far as the saves/wins thing.. I don't think a Save is as vaulable as a win. I think a save, at 5 points, is a pretty reasonable score. The complete game though.. 10 does seem a bit much :) I'll propose this one compromise and say that a CG is worth 5 points?

on the roster -- i dont' have a problem with the way it is. If the concensus here is to reduce it, then amen, but i don't mind the way it is.

:)

Ansky39

03-06-02, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Saxmania
I think the idea with the extended roster is to reflect MLB, where you have to have backups in certain positions - you can't get away with just one catcher or three outfielders; you need to have a replacement to play in case of day-to-day injuries or platooning matchups. In fantasy play, you can get away with just missing out a day's worth of stats (unlike real life, where you have to have SOMEONE to play the position), but having more starters means that owners have to have depth to their lineup. 7 also seems like a lot for a bench, since you could stockpile players who you have no intention of inserting in your lineup (e.g. catchers) to hurt the rest of the league.

ahh but in the real game you have no obligation to play your backups... you don't have to rely on the production of backups... in the current scenario we will have to rely on the production of a backup catcher every game, and we will have to rely on the production of a 4th infielder and a 4th outfielder every game... that's not basball, baseball is 9 batters... that's like making sojo and ledee starters in addition to the yanks current lineup... i've checked my 5 other leagues and they all operate based on mlb's starting lineup of 9 batters... under our scenario in addition to overrelaince on marginal players, (backups) it will also dilute the talent pool in the free agent market...

once again guys, this is not a deal breaker for me, but i just don';t see the rationale for having 12 batter lineups instead of the traditional 9 player lineups... unless we're overemphasizing the fantasy part and diminishing the baseball part...

i've had two drafts already under the traditional format and the likelihood of stockpiling is mitigated by the dearth of quality pos players at certain positions... and even if someone did say draft all catchers w/ their first 3 picks, they'd be forced to deal due to neglecting other positions and this would promote league activity, the lifeline of the these fanatsy leagues...

lemme kno'wha'cha'tink guys... er, and gals...

SanFrANSKY

03-06-02, 01:24 PM

I want to send in my $ but I'd like to know if I can even make it on Draft Day!

As the only participant in the Pacific time zone, I am willing to work around you East Coast folks. I can do any date EXCEPT March 17th and March 23rd-31st when I'll be travelling).

Thanks for your attention.

Sascha

03-06-02, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by SanFrANSKY
I can do any date EXCEPT March 17th and March 23rd-31st when I'll be travelling).

I guess it should be done at least one week before OD.. so one's still able to trade and sign FA etc.

SanFrANSKY

03-06-02, 01:33 PM

OD is March 31st. I guess if it's necessary I can do March 24th, which is a Sunday. That might work better for everyone else too.

Sascha

03-06-02, 01:35 PM

I've got vacation from the 22nd onwards... so no problem for me either...

Luvtino

03-06-02, 02:59 PM

Just an FYI...I will be taking over yankeesrule2000 spot. Please be gentle as I am a "virgin" fantasy baseball player. I have never been involved in anything even remotely like this on any site and I am a wee bit nervous. :lol:

Bozidar

03-06-02, 03:02 PM

have no fear, Larissa..

we'll stomp you into the ground this year, but you'll come back next year :D :)

.. on the other hand. I was a rookie last year, and wound up taking the whole enchilada away from 7 veteran Fantasy players :) Good luck!

edit; is Rich (yankeesrule2000) going to be assisting you at all?

b-ball-lunachick

03-06-02, 03:22 PM

okay, I'm not even going to pretend to understand all these rules...Ansky said he'd help but I think until he finds out what league he's in, he might be steering me with bad info!! :D ;) gotta watch those fellow competitors!! ;)

How is the draft order determined anyway? and how long do you have between picks? i guess some leagues give you 24 hours, I'm thinking this is going to be different...i'm seeing talk of one day...

go easy on me guys... :)

Bozidar

03-06-02, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
How is the draft order determined anyway? and how long do you have between picks? i guess some leagues give you 24 hours, I'm thinking this is going to be different...i'm seeing talk of one day...Draft order is determined randomly, with the chances of your name being picked related to how many posts you have ;) Kidding.. it's random. names out of a hat kinda thing. Time between picks hasn't been decided, but we're leaning towards a live draft, not a 24hr interval.

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
go easy on me guys... :) NEVER!!

Yanksagain

03-06-02, 03:52 PM

I don't mind the lineup. Yes, two catchers is a little extreme because it will be difficult to draft at least 40 catchers (gulp!), but I'm ok with it.

I'm all for a live draft. There is absolutely no way we can conduct a draft on this board. It would take too long.

I'm ready to draft.....let's go!!

#1PaFan

03-06-02, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Saxmania
Once payment has been received, Boz or myself will PM you with the details of the league, plus the password, so that you may create your team.

Well??? :)

Saxmania

03-06-02, 04:18 PM

Touchy.

Boz, want to get on this, or shall we tease them a little longer?

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

#1PaFan

03-06-02, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Saxmania
Touchy.

Touchy? No, just wondering.

Bozidar

03-06-02, 04:49 PM

Sax ; i'm just glad we've already finished the first few rounds of drafting for everyone. :)

Luvtino

03-06-02, 06:41 PM

I like the idea of a 9 player lineup better than the additional players being added. It's more traditional and realistic that way even though this is fantasy baseball ;). Whatever the majority rules is of course fine with me. :)

On a side note, you guys have done an awesome job on all of this and I really appreciate it. You all rock!! :cool:

Luvtino

03-06-02, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Bozidar
Sax ; i'm just glad we've already finished the first few rounds of drafting for everyone. :)

:lol:

Ryguy22984

03-06-02, 07:02 PM

Sounds great guys. I'm gonna mail the donation tomorrow, so count me in. I also wanna thank Boz and Sax.

Saxmania

03-07-02, 03:25 AM

Okay, guys, I'm going to post one last poll on this forum to see what the owners would like to do for the league. I don't want to drag this out too long, so that we can get with the drafting, but Ansky's raised some good points, and it looks like I was premature in posting the roster structure. I was going to suggest March 16th as a good draft date, by the way.

Oh, and :lol:, Boz.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Bozidar

03-07-02, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Saxmania
I was going to suggest March 16th as a good draft date, by the way.Uhh.. I'll be in Manhattan, with a friend, helping him with a live draft on that day :) How about that sunday, the 17th, in the evening?

Saxmania

03-07-02, 07:42 AM

SanFRANsky can't do the 17th. It's going to be a little awkward for Europeans to hold the draft in the evening on any day except a Friday or Saturday, since we're 5-6 hours ahead. I'm not working from the 15th onwards, but Sascha might have something to say.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

Bozidar

03-07-02, 08:18 AM

that following weekend looks good for me.. wide open, friday to sunday

SanFrANSKY

03-07-02, 10:13 AM

Boz, the draft for my own league is the 17th in the evening.

I say the 15th, or any day between the 18th and 22nd of March.

At this point there may not be any weekend draft dates left on Yahoo.

Ryguy22984

03-07-02, 06:19 PM

I'm good for anything at night, during the day on some days might be a problem. In response to none of the draft times being left at nights, this problem happened in another league that I'm in. Basically the commissioner has to reload and reload the draft time page until a night spot appears, because some leagues change their times and draft spots then open up. Another option is doing it in a chat room, so we could choose whenever time we want to draft.

Luvtino

03-08-02, 03:07 PM

YanksRockMan was kind enough to take my spot over for me. I was so excited to play, but between work and school I was very concerned about having time to do the draft and give it 100% of my attention. He has has done this before and I know he will be very devoted.

Hopefully things will be calmer next year and I can be involved at that time. If you need any help in another capacity that would take less time, I would be thrilled to help and hope you will keep me in mind for that.

YanksRockMan

03-08-02, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Luvtino
YanksRockMan was kind enough to take my spot over for me. I was so excited to play, but between work and school I was very concerned about having time to do the draft and give it 100% of my attention. He has has done this before and I know he will be very devoted.

Hopefully things wil be calmer next year and I can be involved at tha time. If you need any help in another capacity that would take less time, I would be thrilled to help and hope you will keep me in mind for that.
Thanks Larissa.:)

Luvtino

03-08-02, 04:10 PM

Thank you YRM. ;)

yankeesrule2000

03-12-02, 03:37 PM

Thanks to the both of you :)

YanksRockMan

03-12-02, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by yankeesrule2000
Thanks to the both of you :)
No problem rich...thanks Rich!!:)