View Full Version : One Padre killed, another injured in accident
Very sad, sems like this happens yearly
http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,5011681_52,00.html
Player in Padres organization dies in Arizona accident
Feb. 15, 2002
SportsLine.com wire reports
PHOENIX -- One player in the San Diego Padres organization was killed and another injured early Friday when the vehicle they were riding in rolled over on an interstate highway.
Another man inside the sports utility vehicle also was killed in the 2 a.m. MST accident, but authorities said they did not believe he was a Padres player.
It was not immediately clear if the two players were major leaguers or minor leaguers. The Padres hold spring training in nearby Peoria.
The identities of the victims were being withheld until relatives could be notified, Arizona Department of Public Safety spokesman Frank Valenzuela said.
The vehicle apparently drifted into the dirt center median, then the driver overcorrected, Valenzuela said. The vehicle rolled across all three westbound lanes of the freeway and crashed through a fence, coming to rest on a frontage road.
Valenzuela said the driver and front-seat passenger were not wearing seatbelts and were ejected and killed.
The injured man was in the back seat and was wearing a seat belt and was treated and released at the scene, Valenzuela said.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service
Copyright 2002, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved
b-ball-lunachick
02-15-02, 09:54 AM
that's horrible...I wonder who it was... :(
you're right Chris -- it does seem to happen every year...last year, someone was drving to ST or something...was it a Met? my memory is shot...I just remember someone driving to ST in Florida...maybe from his home in Atlanta...
b-ball-lunachick
02-15-02, 10:04 AM
WFAN reported that one of the local television stations claims the player who was killed was outfielder Mike Darr...don't know too much about him but he was only 25 :(
Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
that's horrible...I wonder who it was... :(
you're right Chris -- it does seem to happen every year...last year, someone was drving to ST or something...was it a Met? my memory is shot...I just remember someone driving to ST in Florida...maybe from his home in Atlanta...
Yeah, Brian Cole, he was their top prospect.
It would have been like Soriano or Nick Johnson for us.
Anybody still think it's cool to drive OR ride in the front OR back seat without a seatbelt?
b-ball-lunachick
02-15-02, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Chris
Anybody still think it's cool to drive OR ride in the front OR back seat without a seatbelt?
No, I don't get it...especially in the front seat...I do know for one person I know, it's not a matter of being uncool but because it hurts due to a past injury...but I still yell at him for it...I don't ever win that argument either... :(
WFAN is now reporting a second person in the car also died...no word on who though, or if it's a player...they guy who had his seatbelt on was treated and released at the scene...
Brian Cole - that's it... :( I can't remember if he fell asleep or whatever, but that was so sad...
Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
No, I don't get it...especially in the front seat...I do know for one person I know, it's not a matter of being uncool but because it hurts due to a past injury...but I still yell at him for it...I don't ever win that argument either...
NOT Especially in the front seat, the fornt seat is made with air bags, crumple zones, protection from the dash itself.
The difference between a fool in the front and a fool in the back is zero.
As for your friend they should get one of the specially made seatbelts or attacthments, they make them for specific injuries and pregnant women.
I don't know about your friend but I prefer some pain or discomfort to death.
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 10:40 AM
From what I've also heard, it was Mike Darr (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6231). To the accident, I heard that himself and another passenger both w/o seatbelts were killed. A third passenger with a seatbelt sustained minor injuries.
Originally posted by Chris
Anybody still think it's cool to drive OR ride in the front OR back seat without a seatbelt?
Anybody who rides in my car wears a seatbelt...end of story. Occasionally when carpooling, a child may say, "I don't have to wear a seatbelt in my mom's car" (shocking, huh?), and I say, well in this car you do!
The worst thing is when I stop at a light & notice a child without a seatbelt on. It's all I can do to keep from rolling down my window to say something!!
Carissa
02-15-02, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by cb2u
Anybody who rides in my car wears a seatbelt...end of story. Occasionally when carpooling, a child may say, "I don't have to wear a seatbelt in my mom's car" (shocking, huh?), and I say, well in this car you do!
The worst thing is when I stop at a light & notice a child without a seatbelt on. It's all I can do to keep from rolling down my window to say something!! I'm the same exact way. Except, that it's all I can do from getting out of my car and banging on their window at a red light to say something.
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 11:04 AM
The sad part is that one of my nieces refuses to wear a seatbelt. After that NFL guy who wore #58 was killed w/o a seatbelt, you'd think people would learn by now. When, when, when will it ever end.
Get in a car, cab, I buckle up. If buses and trains had them, I'd put them on, too.
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
The sad part is that one of my nieces refuses to wear a seatbelt. .
Don't let her ride with you , ever.
She'll think it's a joke the first time
Sandman
02-15-02, 11:19 AM
I couldn't agree more about seatbelts. It was no coincidence that the only survivor of the Princess Diana crash was wearing one. What a terrible, and to some extent needless, tragedy.
b-ball-lunachick
02-15-02, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Chris
NOT Especially in the front seat, the fornt seat is made with air bags, crumple zones, protection from the dash itself.
The difference between a fool in the front and a fool in the back is zero.
As for your friend they should get one of the specially made seatbelts or attacthments, they make them for specific injuries and pregnant women.
I don't know about your friend but I prefer some pain or discomfort to death.
this person is no fool, although the act itself is foolish to me...I didn't realize they made attachments like that...I'll check into that...thanks.
YanksRockMan
02-15-02, 11:23 AM
This was an unfortunate tragedy to Mike Darr's immediate family members and his friends. He was a promising member of the San Diego Padres, and he was the reason they released the now-Yankee, Ruben Rivera.
RIP Mike!:(
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 11:23 AM
I'm hearing now that Ben Howard, a minor league player was the sole survivor in the SUV rollover. There are two Ben Howards under www.minorleaguebaseball.com, both with the Pads farm.
Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
this person is no fool, although the act itself is foolish to me..
fool Pronunciation Key (fl)
n.
One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
One who acts unwisely on a given occasion
I disagree with your assesment.
I'm sure if I called Princess Di a fool people would tell me I was wrong but now she's dead and she died because she didn;t wear a seatbelt, seems like a fool way to go to me.
I realize that their may be people here that don;t wear them or know a friend or family member that doesn;t wear them and so I'm calling them fools.
Sory if anyone is taking offense to my point of view, but Mike Darr was a fool and died a fools death and so is anyone that refuses to wear a seatbelt (in my opinion)>
You can't tell me that someone is not a fool but does foolish things because that is the very definition of a fool
b-ball-lunachick
02-15-02, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Chris
You can't tell me that someone is not a fool but does foolish things because that is the very definition of a fool
you and I disagree on this point all the time...
one can do stupid things at times and not be a stupid person.
one can do foolish things at times but not be a fool.
you're not a stupid person...have you ever done anything in your life that someone might consider stupid? I have...and I'm not a stupid person...
stu·pid Pronunciation Key (stpd, sty-)
adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est
Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
See the definition of stupid and the definition of fool. You can do stupid things without being stupid, if you do foolish things, you are a fool.
To answer your question I have done many stupid things and I'm sure will continue (ranting about wearing seatbelts may be turning out to be one of those things) but no, i'm not stupid because of them.
I have also done foolish things and will continue, and for that I'm a fool.
But I'm at least not a fool of the same variety that Mike Darr and Princess Di and your friend are, not the type of fool that risks the life of someone his or her friends and family love.
Again I apologize if anyone is taking offense to how I feel.
Anyone got an update on the accident? Word from the Padres camp?
Bozidar
02-15-02, 11:43 AM
The Cubs' Ken Hubbs, the 1962 National League Rookie of the Year, is killed in a private plane crash in Utah.
guess it's not a good day for promissing baseball players.
Carissa
02-15-02, 11:51 AM
Padres outfielder Mike Darr killed in crash
February 15, 2002
PHOENIX (AP) -- San Diego Padres outfielder Mike Darr was killed and a minor league pitcher was injured early Friday when the vehicle they were riding in rolled over on an interstate highway.
Darr, 25, was San Diego's opening-day center fielder in 2001, his first full big league season. He moved into the starting lineup after Ruben Rivera was released in spring training but eventually gave way to Mark Kotsay, who was obtained from Florida just before opening day.
Ben Howard, a 23-year-old pitcher who played for San Diego's Class-A and Double-A affiliates last season, was treated at the scene and released, Arizona Department of Public Safety spokesman Frank Valenzuela said.
Another man in the vehicle -- 23-year-old Duane Johnson, of Reno, Nev. -- also was killed in the accident. He was believed to be a friend of Darr.
``He may be affiliated with the team but we are not sure yet,'' Valenzuela said. ``We just know that he's not a player.''
Last year, Darr made 24 starts in center field and 45 in right, where Tony Gwynn hardly played because of leg injuries.
Darr was good defensively but didn't have much power, hitting just two homers last year. However, both were game-winners in the Padres' last at-bat. He batted .277 with 34 RBIs.
Darr was the Padres' minor league player of the year in 1997 after being obtained from Detroit with another player for second baseman Jody Reed late in spring training that year.
In 2000, Darr shared the Padres' minor league player of the year award with Jeremy Owens. Darr hit .344 with 9 homers and 65 RBIs in 91 games with Triple-A Las Vegas.
He was recalled to the Padres on July 31. In his first game following the recall he hit the second pitch he saw for a two-run homer against Philadelphia. Darr also played in five games for San Diego in mid-April 2000 before returning to Triple-A.
The crash occurred about 2 a.m. MST (4 a.m. EST). The Padres hold spring training in nearby Peoria and Friday was the voluntary reporting date for pitchers and catchers to report.
Darr became the second player in the Padres organization to be killed in a car crash in less than year.
On July 29, minor league pitcher Gerik Baxter was killed near Indio, Calif., when a rear tire on his pickup blew out, causing the truck to swerve into another car and roll several times. Oakland Athletics draft pick Mark Hilde, a passenger in the truck, also died.
Valenzuela said Darr was the driver of the vehicle and it appeared the accident was alcohol related. The vehicle apparently drifted into the dirt center median, then the driver overcorrected, Valenzuela said.
It rolled across three lanes of the freeway and crashed through a fence, coming to rest on a frontage road.
Valenzuela said Darr and Johnson were not wearing seat belts and were ejected and killed while Howard was in the back seat and was wearing a seat belt.
Howard, a right-hander who was a second-round pick in the 1997 amateur draft, was 8-2 with a 2.83 ERA with Class A Lake Elsinore and 2-0 with a 2.40 ERA at AA Mobile.
He was selected to the California League All-Star team while with Lake Elsinore.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20020215/ap-padresdeath.html
:NY::NY::NY::NY::NY::NY::NY::NY::NY::NY:
Padres: Darr killed in auto accident
by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Friday, February 15, 2002
News
San Diego Padres outfielder Mike Darr was killed and another player injured when their vehicle rolled over on an interstate near Phoenix early Friday. Another man that was riding in the sports utility vehicle was also killed, but he was not a Padres player according to authorities. Frank Valenzuela of the Arizona Department of Public Safety said that the accident occurred around 2:00 am Friday. The SUV that Darr was driving apparently drifted into the dirt center median; Darr over-corrected and the vehicle rolled across all three westbound lanes of the freeway and crashed through a fence, coming to rest on a frontage road. Neither Darr nor the other front-seat passenger were wearing seat belts and were ejected. The injured player was treated and released, but his identity is not yet known. Valenzuela also confirmed that it appeared the accident was alcohol-related. The Padres spring training home is in nearby Peoria, Arizona.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/fanball/20020215/fanball-padresdarrkilledinau.html
#1PaFan
02-15-02, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Chris
fool Pronunciation Key (fl)
n.
One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
One who acts unwisely on a given occasion
I disagree with your assesment.
I'm sure if I called Princess Di a fool people would tell me I was wrong but now she's dead and she died because she didn;t wear a seatbelt, seems like a fool way to go to me.
I realize that their may be people here that don;t wear them or know a friend or family member that doesn;t wear them and so I'm calling them fools.
Sory if anyone is taking offense to my point of view, but Mike Darr was a fool and died a fools death and so is anyone that refuses to wear a seatbelt (in my opinion)>
You can't tell me that someone is not a fool but does foolish things because that is the very definition of a fool
An Absolute Ditto here, Chris.
Folks don't ride with me unless they have their seat belt buckled.
Many years ago when I went through the Police Academy, we were shown quite a lot of accident films & photos. I wish it was mandatory for all licensed drivers to view.
With the information known today, you have to be a ................ing moron to choose not to wear a seatbelt.
NYYfan24
02-15-02, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Chris
Don't let her ride with you , ever.
She'll think it's a joke the first time
I agree. I had a rather bratty 11 year old in my back seat, and he told me he legally (can you believe it) can ride without one. I refused to move the car til he put on his seatbelt or got out. He thought it was funny for about a minute....then buckled up.
That is a sad story about the Padre. Maybe one day, the point of seatbelts will get through to the stupid or fools !!
silverdsl
02-15-02, 12:32 PM
I don't know if either of these two articles mention it but some of the updated stories are saying that alcohol was also involved in this accident. So on top of not wearing a seatbelt Darr (who was apparently the driver) may have been drinking and driving.
My condolences to the Mike Darr's wife and two small children as well as to the family of the other man who was killed.
:(
-Deborah
Bozidar
02-15-02, 12:44 PM
just to clear something up.. a fool is someone who does foolish things. Yet we all do foolish things at one time or another. So either we're all fools, or only those that do such things on a regular basis are fools.
Drinking and Driving is not foolish, it's, in my mind, murderous intent. I've known more than one family destroyed by such things, and have sympathy only for the victims, not those that choose to particpate.
It's very sad..
Carissa
02-15-02, 12:52 PM
Mike Darr and friend killed in automobile accident
Padres Media Relations
http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/sd/news/sd_news_story.jsp?article_id=sd_20020215_darrrelease_news&team_id=sd
San Diego Padres outfielder Mike Darr and a friend who is not affiliated with the Padres were killed last night in an automobile accident on Highway 101 near the club's Spring Training camp in Peoria, AZ. Padres pitching prospect Ben Howard, who was riding in the back seat of the car, sustained scrapes and bruises in the accident. He was examined by paramedics at the scene and was treated this morning by club medical staff.
"We who get to work in baseball so often enjoy living in our own world, apart from the realities of life," said Padres Executive Vice President/General Manager Kevin Towers. "Tragedies such as this burst the bubble and remind us how vulnerable we are and how precious life is.
"We send our deepest sympathies and regrets to Mike's wife Natalie and their children as well as the family of the other victim."
The 25-year-old Darr is survived by his wife and two sons, Mike Jr. and Matthew.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Padres Outfielder Mike Darr Killed in Car Crash
Fri Feb 15, 1:40 PM ET
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=577&u=/nm/20020215/sp_nm/nl_darr_dc_3
PHOENIX (Reuters) - San Diego Padres outfielder Mike Darr and another man were killed when the sport utility vehicle Darr was driving careened out of control and repeatedly rolled over across a freeway, authorities said.
Investigators believe that alcohol was a factor in the fatal crash, according to an Arizona Public Safety Department spokesman.
Darr, 25, and a front-seat passenger identified as Duane Johnson were thrown about 30 feet from the vehicle when it crashed along a stretch of the Loop 101 in northwest Phoenix, the spokesman said. Neither had been wearing seatbelts.
Padres minor league pitching prospect Ben Howard, 23, who was in the back seat and wearing a seatbelt, was treated at the scene, he said.
It was not clear whether Johnson, a 23-year-old Reno, Nevada, resident, had any connection to the Padres organization.
The Padres hold their spring training in Peoria, Arizona. Team officials could not be reached for comment.
Authorities said the vehicle was headed westbound at about 2 a.m. MST with Darr behind the wheel when it began drifting into the median and he apparently overcorrected. The vehicle then flipped across the freeway, crashed through a fence and tumbled onto a frontage road where it came to rest on its top.
It was not immediately clear how fast the vehicle was traveling at the time.
Darr played parts of the last three seasons with the Padres, making his full-season major league debut with the National League team last year.
Darr, who has played all three outfield positions, was expected to make the major league squad again this year as an extra outfielder.
The Corona, California, resident is survived by a wife, Natalie, and two sons, Mike Jr. and Matthew, according to team's Web site.
YankeeFan00
02-15-02, 01:43 PM
That is so sad.:( I don't understand why some people still don't wear seatbelts, and drinking and driving just makes me so mad.
deranged2005
02-15-02, 02:04 PM
:( :( :( :( :(
sanfranciscojetergirl
02-15-02, 02:23 PM
I just heard about this. My Condolences for his wife and Children.I had a family member last year died because she did not have a seatbelt on. I hope people understand the important of wearing a seatbelt.
People who drive SUVs drive without a care in the world.
No how matter how times its reinforced to wear your seat belts,people refuse to wear them. The guy that wore the seat belt has a scratch
sad but DUMB
I
Luvtino
02-15-02, 03:50 PM
How tragic. My thoughts and prayers are with all of their families and friends at this time. :(
We grew up wearing seatbelts whether you were in the front or back seat. It was non-negotiable in my family. Anyone who was in the car wore one or stayed home. That went for children our age or adults. Period.
I have a niece and 3 nephews and they all put them on automatically without complaint as it has been a part of their upbringing. I would never let anyone ride in my car without one.
As far as drunk driving goes, I think the laws should be even stricter.
jojos_2
02-15-02, 04:25 PM
How so very sad. :( To think I just had seen Mike Darr on TV playing for the Padres and hearing about his future with the Padres on the radio not too long ago...*sigh* For me and my family, seat belts are a MUST, no questions.
My prayers are with their families.
Very sad, Darr had a lot of promise. Drinking & driving is about the most stupid thing a person can do. He put the other passenger's lives in jeopardy. The real victims are his wife & kids. My prayers go out to them.
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
Drinking and Driving is not foolish, it's, in my mind, murderous intent. I've known more than one family destroyed by such things, and have sympathy only for the victims, not those that choose to particpate.
It's very sad.. Let me hope I can express my thoughts and still remain in good standing here. I'll respectfully disagree, since I feel that those who carelessly drink and drive are those (especially men) who feel they "can handle their liquor", which is probably where the lack of seatbelts comes in ("don't worry, nothing will happen").
If a guy drinks until 4am (NYS bar closing time), gets into his car or truck and drives off, that happens quite a lot. I feel that they don't _intend_ to hurt anyone but some people just don't know the limits of their alcoholic consumption.
I figure they live at point B and they're at point A so the car's needed to get them home after a night of fun. I really think that for drunkenness, fatigue, people can pull over, get something to eat, hot meal, perhaps even a night in a motel. There are also self breathalyzers available.
I really, really wish that Mike and other drunk drivers had considered the extreme risk they'd put others into, as well as their ignorance of this. I feel that this doesn't necessarily fall into the "he knew he was going to kill someone" category, but into the "he _SHOULD HAVE KNOWN_ he could've killed someone" category.
RIP, may we all learn, live wisely. Since tonight's Friday, may all drivers here heed that warning. Buckle up and if intoxicated, call a cab. A cab or hotel is always cheaper than a casket and your family won't even need to buy flowers.
:(:(:(:mad::mad::mad:
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Chris
Don't let her ride with you , ever.
She'll think it's a joke the first timeShe's usually going home and I'm doing something else so I just get her a cab. I hear you but I can't understand why people don't like the belt. You look at limo drivers, unless it's a police checkpoint, no belt. Once they get past the checkpoint, the belts come off.
I get the sad impression that people consider driving w/o a belt the same way they'll order a "regular" coffee and ham and eggs in the morning. It's like a routine they can't break so they stick with it. L-O-N-G story.
I love my niece but her refusal to wear a belt has driven me nuts at times.
patrick.o
02-15-02, 05:40 PM
I have to disagree with your hard line stance on fools, Chris. As Luna and Boz said, you can do foolish things but not be a fool. While a few people really are fools permanently, most of the rest of us only suffer bouts of foolishness.
I do agree that not wearing a seatbelt is a foolish thing. It's right up there with smoking and playing Russian Roulette.
I disagree with with you, Boz, in your assessment that drunken driving is "murderous intent". I've known plenty of people who at one time in their lives or another have driven after drinking. I've never known a single one of them to intend to commit murder. It may be foolish, careless, and deadly, but murderous intent is a stretch.
And even though they acted as fools, I do feel bad for the men who died. And especially for their families.
Bozidar
02-15-02, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
If a guy drinks until 4am (NYS bar closing time), gets into his car or truck and drives offlemme finish that sentence for you..
then he should have known better, and is putting other people's lives at risk due to his poor judgement
His lack of planning ahead, before drinking until 4AM, is, imo, pre-meditation.
I'm irish, and a lot of people in my family drink. Every one of them plans ahead, and figures out how they're going to get home, before they leave.
Sorry, there is too much awareness in today's society for someone to say : "Ooops, guess i should have known better, huh?". Yeah.. Oops, whoopsie, guess you can go on your way, and maybe kill my sister next time, or my son, when you get in your car after you've been drinking. That'll be just SWEEEEELLLL.
No excuse, none. If you go out to drink, then you take responsibility. period, end of sentence.
(i wouldn't give the "good standing" thing another thought, we're just speaking our minds)
as for not knowning the limits of your consumption -- it's none. You don't drink a friggin EYE DROPPER and get behind the wheel, if you're asking me. It's unacceptable, reckless, endangering, and in the end it is often times murderous. the intent is in the negligence.
what's next? Oh, i shot up with some good smack, but didn't know how much I could handle. Then I went on a joy ride. Whoops, guess i didn't know how much i could handle.
It's just completely unforgiveable, to me.
Bozidar
02-15-02, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by patrick.o
I disagree with with you, Boz, in your assessment that drunken driving is "murderous intent". I've known plenty of people who at one time in their lives or another have driven after drinking. I've never known a single one of them to intend to commit murder. It may be foolish, careless, and deadly, but murderous intent is a stretch.We no longer live in a time where it's considered "foolish" to get behind the wheel of a car after you've been drinking. People are flooded with the message of how wrong it is, and how much harm it can do.
Take a gun out side, shoot it in the air, and maybe no one gets killed 90% of the time. That's drunk driving. There is intent, imo.
popular expression for getting drunk : Getting loaded
These are just my views, based on my personal experiences. I know how easy it is to get a ride, and i know how terrible the consiquences are if you don't. You all have every right to disagree with me, i'm fine with it :) Don't mean to get all preachy, it's just something i feel strongly about
NYYCutie47
02-15-02, 08:02 PM
That is really sad. My deepest sympathies go out to his family.
Originally posted by Bozidar
as for not knowning the limits of your consumption -- it's none. You don't drink a friggin EYE DROPPER and get behind the wheel, if you're asking me. It's unacceptable, reckless, endangering, and in the end it is often times murderous. the intent is in the negligence.
When I have to drive, I don't drink. It's very clear cut, to me anyway.
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
lemme finish that sentence for you..
then he should have known better, and is putting other people's lives at risk due to his poor judgement
His lack of planning ahead, before drinking until 4AM, is, imo, pre-meditation.I strongly agree with you that a drunken driver is irresponsibly taking others' lives into their own hands. I don't believe that the 4am time frame means he "pre-meditated" his actions. Let's go further and I'll type out the definitions from Black's Law, 7th Ed., p. 1199:
premeditated: done with willful deliberation and planning; sonsciously considered beforehand <a premeditated killing>.
premeditated malice. See MALICE AFORETHOUGHT.
premeditation: Conscious consideration and planning that precedes some act (such as committing a crime).My interpretation of this snipped legal definition is that someone came out and intended to kill someone. That's like murder by vehicular homicide. I think that's a big difference between something happening which the person should obviously have known about (grave indifference, something like that) and something planned.
In a murder trial, if you had a beef with someone and sketched plans, said you're going to kill that person and do, that's a "premediation", one thing you'll need to have for 1st degree murder. You bump into someone, they bother your girl, you kick them in the head and they die, that's not premeditated. You catch me now?
I'm irish, and a lot of people in my family drink. Every one of them plans ahead, and figures out how they're going to get home, before they leave.
Sorry, there is too much awareness in today's society for someone to say : "Ooops, guess i should have known better, huh?". Yeah.. Oops, whoopsie, guess you can go on your way, and maybe kill my sister next time, or my son, when you get in your car after you've been drinking. That'll be just SWEEEEELLLL.I like your family's sense of responsibility. Many more people would be well-advised to do their planning in a similar manner. Since Rudy Giuliani when he was in office, decided that people would lose their cars for DWI (even if a spanking new 2002 Benz or BMW), people have been taking taxi services. Even bars have stickers on the wall for car services that people can call to get them home safely.
I will agree there's way too much awareness and people should definitely know they shouldn't get behind the wheel. I don't believe in any hand-slap sentence (I can't get into judicial sentences now), but ignorance shouldn't be used as some excuse. I feel that people should be responsible for their actions including DWI. We just disagree in that I don't feel the person _intentionally_ put the key in the ignition in order to take someone's life. I just feel that the person was just too damned-*ss stupid not to know that's what the end result would be.
I'll try replying to the back half of your post. Note I've known many Irish, including native Irishmen/women and we've all gotten along. I realize that drinking is a stereotype most sons/daughters of Erin hope to avoid, I'm glad that your family has at least taken a mature and responsible solution, which others can learn from, regardless of nationality.
I've gotta go now.
PettittesPrincess
02-15-02, 10:20 PM
This is so sad.. but actually not wearing a seatbelt actually helped my mom from being hurt worse once... I feel bad for those that he left behind.
Bozidar
02-15-02, 10:24 PM
premeditated: done with willful deliberation and planning; sonsciously considered beforehand It's an act by ommission. They fail to make plans for a ride home, or refuse to take an alternate means. When someone puts the key in the ignition, when they know they have been drinking, then that person (unless they've had their head in a hole for the past 50 years) KNOWS that there is a greatly increased chance that someone could get killed.
I'm sure if we looked around the states, you'd find that a couple of them have decided to evolve their laws to call a DWI killing murder. I wouldn't be suprised in the least.
How many more people have to die because of this, before we make the laws as strict as they should be? The way laws, and the attitude that many people take towards this, is pure folly.
Carissa
02-15-02, 10:26 PM
:( :( :( :(
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013808852padres_death_pn104.jpg
The sport utility vehicle that San Diego Padres outfielder Mike Darr was killed in and a minor league pitcher was injured in early Friday when the vehicle rolled over on a Phoenix freeway, is shown Friday, Feb. 15, 2002, at an impound yard in Phoenix. Another man in the vehicle _ 23-year-old Duane Johnson, of Reno, Nev. _ also was killed in the accident. Authorities said he was a longtime friend of Darr. Darr, 25, was San Diego's opening-day center fielder in 2001, his first full big league season, andstarted 69 games. (AP Photo/Matt York)
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013808635padres_death_pn102.jpg
[b]San Diego Padres outfielder Mike Darr's damaged GMC Yukon is shown Friday, Feb. 15, 2002, at an impound yard in Phoenix. Darr, along with lifelong friend Duane Johnson, were both killed early Friday morning when Darr drifted into the center median and overcorrected causing the SUV to roll over three lanes of traffic and crash into a fence, according to DPS spokesman Frank Valenzuela. Padres minor league pitcher Ben Howard, who was in the rear seat, was treated at the scene and released with only scapesand bruises. (AP Photo/Matt York)
Jersey Yankee
02-15-02, 10:54 PM
cd, gruesome pix but thanks for posting. :eek:
Boz, the only "laws" I've heard of other than DWI itself were when bars or individuals throwing parties were financially responsible if someone gets drunk and kills someone. I know that bartenders can't serve someone who's apparently intoxicated.
I think we'll disagree, since I see DWI as a severe and irresponsible form of neglect in that the person was practically asking to maim or kill someone. Without the person actually planning this homicide, then trying to commit it, even succeeding, I can't say it's "premeditated".
You have to plan the act and you have to actually attempt to do it, even if you fail. IMO, the DWI driver didn't plan to kill someone and probably expected to drive home safely. IMO, the murderous "premeditated" driver is the guy who kept running into pedestrians recently in NYC (http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-02-15/News_and_Views/Crime_File/a-141537.asp):
Hit-and-Run Driver In Second Spree -- 7 pedestrians hurt near Penn Station
The midtown madman returned to the scene of his crime yesterday, plowing a stolen car into crowds near Penn Station in a virtual replay of his rampage 48 hours earlier, police said.
"I wanted to hurt more people," Ronald Popadich told cops after admitting to both hit-and-run sprees.
Popadich, who gave up when he was cornered by cops in the basement of his New Jersey home, admitted stealing the car from a woman at gunpoint early yesterday. He also confessed to critically wounding his married girlfriend Sunday.
'I wanted to hurt more people,' says Ronald Popadich.[snip]
[Edited to fix broken link from NY Daily News]
# 21 Forever
02-16-02, 07:58 AM
How sad this is! I hope people start to think twice about drinking and driving and wearing their seat belts! My thoughts and prayers go out to the families!
PinstripePride
02-16-02, 12:57 PM
That is so horrible. God bless his family....:(
DiMaggio5CF
02-16-02, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Chris
Anybody still think it's cool to drive OR ride in the front OR back seat without a seatbelt?
OR drive drunk?
As far as I'm concerned, driving drunk is the stupidest thing you can do.
If you go out to a party and have a few drinks and you're fine to drive, that's cool. You can drink and drive.
But if you cannot operate a vehicle properly, you have no business driving. Driving drunk is not fine.
I'm not saying you can't have any drinks at all. I've gone to a few parties and had a few drinks and then drove home that night. Most people probably have. But I have never driven drunk -- I have never gotten to the point where I was unable to safely operate my car.
There's no law against drinking (assuming you're of legal age), and there's no law against driving (again assuming that you're of legal age, and you have a valid license), but when you put the two together, then you have a problem.
Like the saying goes:
If you drink, please drink responsibly.
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