2010 Brett Gardner Performance Thread [Archive]

OldYankeeFan

03-16-10, 02:51 PM

Per Lohud:

Today’s lineup against the Astros, as promised, looks a lot like the expected Opening Day lineup.

Derek Jeter SS
Nick Johnson DH
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Robinson Cano 2B
Jorge Posada C
Curtis Granderson LF
Nick Swisher RF
Brett Gardner CF

Looks like Gardner has the inside track to start the season in CF.

THEBOSS84

03-16-10, 02:52 PM

I freakin love that lineup.

kan_t

03-16-10, 03:46 PM

Looks like Gardner has the inside track to start the season in CF.
I'm not sure. Including today games, Curtis Granderson has started in LF 2 times while Gardner has started in LF 3 times. Both of them have started in CF 6 times if my counting is correct.

Yankee Tripper

03-16-10, 04:05 PM

I think Joe wants to use spring to see if Granderson/Gardner can handle LF. I think you'll see each split time in CF/LF. reading the ball in a corner OF spot is a bit different from CF. Most can make the adjustment pretty easy but it does take a bit a of getting used too.

JSG

03-16-10, 04:07 PM

I freakin love that lineup.

i tend to agree, even tho we have some new issues: nick staying healthy, cano hitting w RISP, grandy hitting LHP, and getting some MLB production out of the 9 spot. i would really like to see one of the 9 spot guys step up in the next few weeks ............. paging brett/winn/thames/hoffmann ............ hellllllooooooooooooo .........

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-16-10, 04:22 PM

Who is pitching today?

DEADSOX

03-16-10, 04:25 PM

Burnett, Rivera, and Hughes as far as I know.

teknetic

03-16-10, 04:49 PM

Granderson and Swisher batting 7th and 8th is cheating.

delv

03-16-10, 04:59 PM

Granderson and Swisher batting 7th and 8th is cheating.

mwahahahahahaha

JSG

03-17-10, 05:32 PM

via lohud:

"Two-hit day for Gardner, who just tripled to center field. Shane Victorino tried to make a diving catch but missed, and Gardner jogged into third. For a while there, it looked like he had a shot at an inside-the-park home run, but he was given the stop sign. He scored on a sac fly by Nick Johnson."

>> NICE !!

flymick24

03-17-10, 07:02 PM

i really don't like it when he hits the ball into the air... he doesn't really have the gap power to do such things

just keep the ball on the ground and let your legs do the work, bighead

grizy

03-17-10, 07:18 PM

Gardner needs to be able to hit the ball over infielders' heads.

He doesn't have to do it often, but he needs to be able to hit line drives for bloop hits between OF and IFs with some fluke xbase hits.

JSG

03-18-10, 11:16 AM

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2010/03/ny_yankees_brett_gardner_pulli.html

TEPLimey

03-18-10, 11:46 AM

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2010/03/ny_yankees_brett_gardner_pulli.html
Enrique Wilson once left ST hitting over .400. I put zero stock into any of these numbers.

cyhughes22

03-18-10, 02:31 PM

Enrique Wilson once left ST hitting over .400. I put zero stock into any of these numbers.

That's fair. But at a certain point you have to give guys some credit. Brett is playing well and doing his part to try and earn a spot in the outfield and that's all you can ask. He really hasn't ever gotten the kind of extended run that say Melky got so I don't think it's fair to lump him in with Enrique Wilson until he's been given a long enough time to prove that he is or isn't that awful of a player.

TEPLimey

03-18-10, 02:52 PM

That's fair. But at a certain point you have to give guys some credit. Brett is playing well and doing his part to try and earn a spot in the outfield and that's all you can ask. He really hasn't ever gotten the kind of extended run that say Melky got so I don't think it's fair to lump him in with Enrique Wilson until he's been given a long enough time to prove that he is or isn't that awful of a player.
.240/.345/.320 is "playing well and doing his part" ?

If anything, Brett is eeking by while Winn and Thames flounder.

Yankee Tripper

03-18-10, 03:16 PM

.240/.345/.320 is "playing well and doing his part" ?

If anything, Brett is eeking by while Winn and Thames flounder.He hasn't lit it up for sure but 2 things in his favor are
1 - he's been workingon his bunting, which if he's the starting LF (or CF) he's going to need to be good at.
2 - he hasn't struck out hardly at all. with his speed putting the ball in play should lead to a high BABIP just because of the number of IF hits he'll leg out assuming he isn't hitting too many IF popups.

Last year he hit what, close to .400 in spring and then proceeded to lose the starting job with a horrible April. I'd prefer he had a passable spring that carried over into a decent April instead.

Yankee Fan in Boston

03-18-10, 03:20 PM

.240/.345/.320 is "playing well and doing his part" ?

If anything, Brett is eeking by while Winn and Thames flounder.

He's had 25 at-bats. It's ridiculous to draw any conclusions from his statistics at this point.

yankee82093

03-18-10, 03:47 PM

He hasn't lit it up for sure but 2 things in his favor are
1 - he's been workingon his bunting, which if he's the starting LF (or CF) he's going to need to be good at.
2 - he hasn't struck out hardly at all. with his speed putting the ball in play should lead to a high BABIP just because of the number of IF hits he'll leg out assuming he isn't hitting too many IF popups.

Last year he hit what, close to .400 in spring and then proceeded to lose the starting job with a horrible April. I'd prefer he had a passable spring that carried over into a decent April instead.

Unfortunately, he's pretty prone to the pop-up. 14.9% last year, which is really bad. He's gonna have to get a lot better at not hitting pop-ups if he is ever going to be a high BABIP hitter.

JSG

03-18-10, 04:24 PM

Enrique Wilson once left ST hitting over .400. I put zero stock into any of these numbers.

i agree. the good thing is, doesn't sound like girardi does either !!

(cervelli is circa .583) ............

TEPLimey

03-18-10, 04:41 PM

He's had 25 at-bats. It's ridiculous to draw any conclusions from his statistics at this point.
Uh, yeah. Hence my assertion that "I put zero stock in these numbers"

grizy

03-18-10, 05:53 PM

1 - he's been workingon his bunting

This. He bunted what? 10? 14 times? sorry, don't know the number off the top of my head. But even Gardner can't bunt for hits when he's doing it so much.

He needs time with Kevin Long and get the full body swing back so he could hit more line drives. Not many, just enough to keep people honest enough for him to bunt for hits when he needs to.

Yankee Tripper

03-18-10, 06:06 PM

This. He bunted what? 10? 14 times? sorry, don't know the number off the top of my head. But even Gardner can't bunt for hits when he's doing it so much.

He needs time with Kevin Long and get the full body swing back so he could hit more line drives. Not many, just enough to keep people honest enough for him to bunt for hits when he needs to.
Spring is the time to work on things. Garnder is going to be asked to lay down bunts both for hits and sacs this year so he needs to work on them.

Agree he that he also needs to wok on his swing but there is only so much spring training and I guess the Yanks prioritized bunting over his swing mechanics. That may change as the season gets closer.

grizy

03-18-10, 06:12 PM

Spring is the time to work on things. Garnder is going to be asked to lay down bunts both for hits and sacs this year so he needs to work on them.

Agree he that he also needs to wok on his swing but there is only so much spring training and I guess the Yanks prioritized bunting over his swing mechanics. That may change as the season gets closer.

Yeah, my hope is he works with Long all year and ARod won't need Long for long therapy sessions (Long said he spent a lot of time last year just talking to ARod)

Gardner's swing was really good last year before thumb injury. He was still opening the hips early but his entire body was behind the bat and it gave him quite a few line drives including a fluke HR.

If he can get that back he's going to do better than 100OPS+

ThePinStripes

03-18-10, 06:53 PM

meh. so long as a pitcher isn't walking a lot of hitters or the batter isn't striking out a lot, spring training stats aren't very useful.

ajra21

03-20-10, 03:54 AM

.240/.345/.320 is "playing well and doing his part" ?

If anything, Brett is eeking by while Winn and Thames flounder.

the .345 OBP makes me think he is doing more than simply "eeking by". i do recognise that he might be facing pitchers who are trying to find their command. but whatever way you look at it, brett hitting ninth, playing very good defense with a decent OBP and super speed is not a bad thing.

OldYankeeFan

03-20-10, 04:13 PM

the .345 OBP makes me think he is doing more than simply "eeking by". i do recognise that he might be facing pitchers who are trying to find their command. but whatever way you look at it, brett hitting ninth, playing very good defense with a decent OBP and super speed is not a bad thing.Don't worry. As soon as Brett gets his ST avg above .300, it will go from "Gardner is eeking by" to "It means less than nothing, it's ST".

BTW, 2 hit game for Brett today, raising his ST avg to .281. I would have to think the 3rd OF job is pretty much sealed. He led off the game with a Bunt single on the first pitch, and in the 3rd he had a line drive triple down the LF line.

themgmt

03-20-10, 08:05 PM

.281/.361/.406

I'd sign up for something resembling that in the regular season.

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-20-10, 08:06 PM

He's going to be really fun to watch.

THEBOSS84

03-20-10, 08:22 PM

.281/.361/.406

I'd sign up for something resembling that in the regular season.

I think anyone would be dumb NOT to sign up for that.

.361 OBP with his speed? fughedaboutit.

Not to mention the defense he'd give us in LF. You'd be looking at a top 5 LF WAR-wise. Crawford can go find his contract elsewhere.

grizy

03-20-10, 08:25 PM

.281/.361/.406

I'd sign up for something resembling that in the regular season.

That's enough to make him a top 5 all-around CF...

Yeah, I'd sign up for that too.

themgmt

03-20-10, 08:32 PM

Last year I think I predicted .275/.340/.390/.730. If he didn't tail off after the thumb injury he would have bettered the projection across the board.

.280/.360/.400

Let's see it.

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-20-10, 08:47 PM

I see no reason why he won't have an OBP 350+, he has OBP skills. He always has. If he qualified last season, he would have been 16th in the AL in P/PA.

OldYankeeFan

03-21-10, 08:04 AM

I see no reason why he won't have an OBP 350+, he has OBP skills. He always has. If he qualified last season, he would have been 16th in the AL in P/PA.I agree, and that's without consistantly putting his good swing (that he showed last spring) on the ball.

ThePinStripes

03-21-10, 01:09 PM

Gardner and Joba will exceed expectations this year.

DaSh 1s

03-22-10, 02:37 PM

Does anyone know where to find Gardner's SB as a pinch runner last year?

Yankee Tripper

03-22-10, 02:46 PM

Does anyone know where to find Gardner's SB as a pinch runner last year?without scrolling through his game logs in baseball reference I'm not sure. Just eyeballing those though looks like he was 4-4 on SB attempts as a PR.

flymick24

03-22-10, 03:22 PM

i think the extra hair on his head has slowed him down a step

mbn007

03-22-10, 05:13 PM

.281/.361/.406

I'd sign up for something resembling that in the regular season.

I bet with his speed, he tops the slugging portion. I say it would be something along the lines of .280/.360/.425. Pushing towards an 800 OPS.

yankee82093

03-22-10, 07:53 PM

I bet with his speed, he tops the slugging portion. I say it would be something along the lines of .280/.360/.425. Pushing towards an 800 OPS.

That would be a .145 iso, which is almost MLB average. I doubt gardner ever has a .145 iso in his career. He'll probably never be more than a .125 iso guy at best.

mbn007

03-23-10, 01:33 PM

That would be a .145 iso, which is almost MLB average. I doubt gardner ever has a .145 iso in his career. He'll probably never be more than a .125 iso guy at best.

With his speed, he's going to turn a lot of hits into the gaps into doubles and triples, given the opportunity.

Yankee Tripper

03-23-10, 01:44 PM

With his speed, he's going to turn a lot of hits into the gaps into doubles and triples, given the opportunity.he's more likey to turn IF outs into IF 1Bs with his speed. The tweeners you are taking about where he might be able to stretch a 1B into a 2B where another runner (not named Posda) would not be able to stretch it into a 2B also will be a pretty small number of his overall ABs.

yankee82093

03-23-10, 03:30 PM

With his speed, he's going to turn a lot of hits into the gaps into doubles and triples, given the opportunity.

Ok. He had speed his entire MILB career and never posted an iso that high.

NYS is also horrible for doubles and triples. Gardner is not going to be posting a .145 iso anytime soon unless he gets very lucky.

ajra21

03-23-10, 04:24 PM

if he has an OBP of anything above .340, he could easily steal 40 bags.

False1

03-23-10, 07:43 PM

if he has an OBP of anything above .340, he could easily steal 40 bags.If he gets on base at a .340 clip, he'll probably be a full time starter. That means getting on base ~200 times. With his low slugging and outstanding speed, I bet you'd see a heck of a lot more than 40 SBs. Especially if he's hitting 9th with Jeter/Johnson coming up behind him.

ajra21

03-24-10, 02:34 PM

If he gets on base at a .340 clip, he'll probably be a full time starter. That means getting on base ~200 times. With his low slugging and outstanding speed, I bet you'd see a heck of a lot more than 40 SBs. Especially if he's hitting 9th with Jeter/Johnson coming up behind him.

i think he has a .345 OBP in him. he has good plate discipline and if he can bunt his way on once a week, he'll open up gaps for slap hits.

THEBOSS84

03-26-10, 09:08 AM

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-26-10, 09:32 AM

I'm really excited for Brett this year.

grizy

03-26-10, 09:43 AM

Great article from RAB -

http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/brett-gardners-spray-chart-before-and-after-his-thumb-injury-25731/

I can't believe from May 1st through his thumb injury nearly 3 months later, he put up a line of .298/.393/.454 in 166 PA.

He was definitely slapping. His batting form was different even to the naked eye.

teknetic

03-26-10, 09:49 AM

Great article from RAB -

http://riveraveblues.com/2010/03/brett-gardners-spray-chart-before-and-after-his-thumb-injury-25731/

I can't believe from May 1st through his thumb injury nearly 3 months later, he put up a line of .298/.393/.454 in 166 PA.

May: .327/.417/.538/.955 7BB/6SO
June: .333/.439/.479/.918 9BB/4SO

It did get shot down as a fluke (which it probably is because he's not gonna be a .900 OPS type guy) but the ability to produce is there.

stazsanity

03-26-10, 10:53 AM

May: .327/.417/.538/.955 7BB/6SO
June: .333/.439/.479/.918 9BB/4SO

It did get shot down as a fluke (which it probably is because he's not gonna be a .900 OPS type guy) but the ability to produce is there.

exactly what I've been saying for over a year... for those who the mandate is to have an all-star at every position, Brett will never be good enough...but he's beyond capable of being a productive big league player who plays an above average LF/CF, and an average offensive player that at the very least add a dimension to the team with his speed.

delv

03-26-10, 11:16 AM

I NEED a Gardner t-shirt. But I don't wanna pay 35 bucks for it.

OldYankeeFan

03-26-10, 11:17 AM

exactly what I've been saying for over a year... for those who the mandate is to have an all-star at every position, Brett will never be good enough...but he's beyond capable of being a productive big league player who plays an above average LF/CF, and an average offensive player that at the very least add a dimension to the team with his speed.Not to mention at < 500K he is a cost controlled bargain that lets us spend the millions it would cost to get slightly better offensive production on other needs.

delv

03-26-10, 11:39 AM

Actually, that article is disconcerting. They mention Crisp who broke his finger and never hit the same again.

delv

03-27-10, 02:45 PM

The gardner tees are now available in the mlb.com store. Victory is mine.

(Nick Johnson not yet available. :( )

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-27-10, 03:34 PM

Yeah, you have to go the customized route for NJ's shirts.

flymick24

03-27-10, 09:18 PM

Yeah, you have to go the customized route for NJ's shirts.

but it'll proably tear a sleeve tendon and then have to go on the DL.. not a good buy, if you ask me

delv

03-27-10, 09:40 PM

Yeah, you have to go the customized route for NJ's shirts.

I was at a Yankee store downtown today and some lady came in asking for a NJ t-shirt to buy her son. The guy who works there is like "Oh, we don't have that," and proceeds to say that he's a backup first baseman and won't get any playing time and that she should buy her son a Tex t-shirt instead, or a Swisher shirt. She asked if they could order an NJ one for her and he thought that was dumb. Ultimately, I went over and let 'em know that I, too, would buy an NJ t-shirt if they had 'em, just so he knew (he had said she was the first person to ask for an NJ shirt). I went on to indicate that NJ was the DH, would have 20 HR, and a 400 OBP percentage, but the guy was like "We'll see about that..."

Lame-wad.

Blazer

03-27-10, 10:06 PM

I was at a Yankee store downtown today and some lady came in asking for a NJ t-shirt to buy her son. The guy who works there is like "Oh, we don't have that," and proceeds to say that he's a backup first baseman and won't get any playing time and that she should buy her son a Tex t-shirt instead, or a Swisher shirt. She asked if they could order an NJ one for her and he thought that was dumb. Ultimately, I went over and let 'em know that I, too, would buy an NJ t-shirt if they had 'em, just so he knew (he had said she was the first person to ask for an NJ shirt). I went on to indicate that NJ was the DH, would have 20 HR, and a 400 OBP percentage, but the guy was like "We'll see about that..."

Lame-wad.

When you mentioned OBP to the salesman you may as well have been speaking Greek to the man in the moon.

JSG

03-28-10, 09:30 AM

I'm really excited for Brett this year.

kevin long too:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/long_brett_not_just_OuToVXNmP6PgjDlcoUWoDJ

delv

03-28-10, 10:02 AM

kevin long too:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/long_brett_not_just_OuToVXNmP6PgjDlcoUWoDJ

lol @ the comments under that article

JSG

03-28-10, 10:10 AM

lol @ the comments under that article

oh boy, caveat = read comments for comedy, not content !!!!!!! cheers

OldYankeeFan

03-28-10, 10:27 AM

“I think this is a kid you just throw in there every day, pencil him in the lineup, hit him down ninth and see at the end of the year if he’s at .270, .280, if he doesn’t steal 65-70 bases, if he doesn’t score 100 runs hitting in the nine-hole.”

And does Long think Gardner can do all that?

“Yes. I do,” said the hitting coach. “I think if you put Brett Gardner on the free market right now and said, ‘Anybody want him?’ I think every team in baseball would want him and probably have him leading off for you. That’s how good he is.”

Brett Gardner (Kevin Long's prediction)

AVG ... .270-.280,
SB .......65-70
Runs..... >100

Let the flaming begin.

I'm just glad we kept him and are giving him this opportunity. We could end up with a really good player that's far more than a 4th OFer.

OldYankeeFan

03-28-10, 10:28 AM

lol @ the comments under that articleHaha, I guess the flaming had already begun.

Derek2HOF

03-28-10, 11:08 AM

Jacoby Ellsburry went in the second round of both of my fantasy drafts. I have drafted Brett in the last few rounds both times. I really think they will have comprable seasons this year. JE might have a slightly better season, but I don't think it will be by that much, and certainly not by enough to justify the second round pick.

grizy

03-28-10, 11:24 AM

Jacoby Ellsbury might have a slightly better fantasy season because he'll get more play time and play at Fenway but Gardner will have a better season overall once you add defense to the equation IMO.

grizy

03-28-10, 11:28 AM

Brett Gardner (Kevin Long's prediction)

AVG ... .270-.280,
SB .......65-70
Runs..... >100

Let the flaming begin.

I'm just glad we kept him and are giving him this opportunity. We could end up with a really good player that's far more than a 4th OFer.

That's super optimistic... but it does echo a lot of what people been saying around here.

False1

03-28-10, 12:24 PM

That's super optimistic... but it does echo a lot of what people been saying around here.I'll go on record saying that if he is given a full season those numbers are doable. With the top of the lineup coming up behind him and his ability to get into scoring position and take an extra base, he'd get driven in quite often if he can sustain the ~.270 BA from last season (and more importantly, get the OBP >.350).

I do think the Lofton comp is way over the top though if we're talking about Lofton at his peak. I don't expect any 144 OPS+ seasons from Gardner.

Blazer

03-28-10, 05:09 PM

#9 hitters rarely get enough AB to score 100 runs or steal 50 bases. IMO Gardner won't be an exception this year.

Jasbro

03-28-10, 07:51 PM

I have the highest regard for Long, so I look forward to being completely wrong about Gardner.

False1

03-29-10, 12:43 AM

#9 hitters rarely get enough AB to score 100 runs or steal 50 bases. IMO Gardner won't be an exception this year.True, but most #9 hitters also rarely have 4 guys that will probably put up ~.400 OBP each coming up behind them either - two of those being some of the best power hitters in baseball.

100 runs is not likely, but if he can get on base and use his legs the guys behind him are going to drive him in a whole bunch.

grizy

03-29-10, 05:21 AM

#9 hitters rarely get enough AB to score 100 runs or steal 50 bases. IMO Gardner won't be an exception this year.

If gardner really puts up those lines he'll start batting No. 1 when either Jeter or NJ is resting.

Even when nobody is resting he'd bat ahead of Granderson (vs. lefties), Winn, and Cervelli.

I don't think it's gonna happen. But if Gardy gets .280BA, we're talking about .350~.370OBP and 0.430~0.450SLG (he'll leg out doubles, inflating SLG), and 40~70SBs (depending on playtime.) With plus (probably elite) defense, Gardner would easily be one of the top 5 CFs in the game, just behind the likes of Matt Kemp, Torii Hunter, and Grady Sizemore.

Even if he falls a little short of that, at under 500k a year, Brett Gardner is easily one of the most valuable members on the team.

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-29-10, 07:00 AM

Yeah. I was really surprised they kept Brett and traded Melky.

JSG

03-29-10, 07:35 AM

Yeah. I was really surprised they kept Brett and traded Melky.

they got javy the week after nick, so damon was still floating out there. maybe it was as simple as the braves wanting melky over brett -- i don't remember the braves being one of the clubs that had tried to acquire brett. my feeling at the time was, cashman is reading the damon market correctly, and as Plan A believes he'll eventually come back to NY, in which case brett fits the bill as the 4th OFer MUCH better than melky. and i think girardi and cashman liked him well enough to start him as Plan B in case damon fell thru. and with the difference in price (an eventual $3.4MM vs circa $500K), it probably wasn't too hard to convince hal !!

Blazer

03-29-10, 12:22 PM

If gardner really puts up those lines he'll start batting No. 1 when either Jeter or NJ is resting.

Even when nobody is resting he'd bat ahead of Granderson (vs. lefties), Winn, and Cervelli.

I don't think it's gonna happen. But if Gardy gets .280BA, we're talking about .350~.370OBP and 0.430~0.450SLG (he'll leg out doubles, inflating SLG), and 40~70SBs (depending on playtime.) With plus (probably elite) defense, Gardner would easily be one of the top 5 CFs in the game, just behind the likes of Matt Kemp, Torii Hunter, and Grady Sizemore.

Even if he falls a little short of that, at under 500k a year, Brett Gardner is easily one of the most valuable members on the team.

I don't think Gardner will do anywhere near the "if's" you mentioned. With his defense and speed he may be able to reach league average in CF.

False1

03-29-10, 02:09 PM

I don't think Gardner will do anywhere near the "if's" you mentioned. With his defense and speed he may be able to reach league average in CF.He was within reach of league average regardless of position last season. I'm confident he'll be better than league average for CF and for a #9 hitter - particularly if you consider defense/baserunning.

Edit - FWIW, here are the '09 AL splits...

CF - .265 / .329 / .403
#9 - .245 / .305 / ..349

delv

03-29-10, 02:16 PM

I'll go on record saying that if he is given a full season those numbers are doable. With the top of the lineup coming up behind him and his ability to get into scoring position and take an extra base, he'd get driven in quite often if he can sustain the ~.270 BA from last season (and more importantly, get the OBP >.350).

I do think the Lofton comp is way over the top though if we're talking about Lofton at his peak. I don't expect any 144 OPS+ seasons from Gardner.

Gardner already hits for more power than Lofton did at the same age. Not trying to say the comparison was justified... Jus sayin'.

delv

03-29-10, 02:24 PM

He was within reach of league average regardless of position last season. I'm confident he'll be better than league average for CF and for a #9 hitter.

Edit - FWIW, here are the '09 AL splits...

CF - .265 / .329 / .403
#9 - .245 / .305 / ..349

.270/.345/.379

We are such a spoiled fanbase.

False1

03-29-10, 02:27 PM

Gardner already hits for more power than Lofton did at the same age. Not trying to say the comparison was justified... Jus sayin'.And? You think Gardner will slug .536 by the time he's 27?

I'm in the give-Gardner-a-shot camp, but Lofton at his peak is not a good comp. If he could put up a 144 OPS+ with his speed and defense he'd be MVP material. I don't see it, regardless of what they'd each done by age 25 in their careers.

delv

03-29-10, 02:42 PM

And? You think Gardner will slug .536 by the time he's 27?

I'm in the give-Gardner-a-shot camp, but Lofton at his peak is not a good comp. If he could put up a 144 OPS+ with his speed and defense he'd be MVP material. I don't see it, regardless of what they'd each done by age 25 in their careers.

holy crap man, reread my earlier post. and then off yourself.

edit: also, concerning Lofton, his age 27 season featured a slugging figure .80 points higher than his second best, so let's not color Lofton a slugger. Lofton's career slugging is more in the vein of Melky 09.

False1

03-29-10, 02:58 PM

holy crap man, reread my earlier post. and then off yourself.

edit: also, concerning Lofton, his age 27 season featured a slugging figure .80 points higher than his second best, so let's not color Lofton a slugger. Lofton's career slugging is more in the vein of Melky 09.What earlier post, and off myself? Damn - that's a bit much, particularly with someone who agrees with you on the player and just not the comp. And let's be honest, compared to Gardner, Lofton and Cabrera are sluggers. Unless Gardner starts driving shots into the gaps routinely he'll be lucky to ever sniff Melky '09 slugging let alone Lofton '94 slugging.

The luxury is that with the team he's on, with his defense and baserunning he doesn't need to.

I agree with you in general, just don't think Gardner will ever see year's like Lofton's best years. Why so serious?

delv

03-29-10, 03:17 PM

False1

03-29-10, 04:07 PM

:giveup:

I'm saying that if you look at my prior post, I agreed that the comp was inappropriate, and I also said that my citing that bit about slugging at that age was not meant to convey that Gardner would OPS+ 144, but you proceeded to respond as if I had said just the opposite. In any case, I don't really wish for your death. :o my badIt appears I misinterpreted your post. I guess I'm not real clear what the point was then, but it's probably moot. No worries - I'm not real sensitive about that type of stuff, actually laughed at how strong the response was. Methinks you might be a little sensitive when it comes to discussion on this player? Now back to our regularly scheduled roles of being objective participants in the Gardner Stinks debate.

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-29-10, 04:07 PM

False and Delv, you guys should off one another. Get rid of the sexual tension.

False1

03-29-10, 04:10 PM

False and Delv, you guys should off one another. Get rid of the sexual frustration.Only on NYYFans can two people who agree in principle get into an argument that prompts suggestions of self-euthanasia.

And don't try and get me into your circle. I told you before False don't play that... NTTAWWT.

delv

03-29-10, 04:35 PM

Only on NYYFans can two people who agree in principle get into an argument that prompts suggestions of self-euthanasia.

And don't try and get me into your circle. I told you before False don't play that... NTTAWWT.

First you call me sensitive, and then you group me in with the JVIS/BOSS/flymick kind of Yankee fan?

Thems fightin' words, boy.

edit: NTTAWWT

delv

03-29-10, 04:38 PM

btw, don't be mad 'cause you don't look as sexy in a suit as Gardy does.

False1

03-29-10, 08:08 PM

btw, don't be mad 'cause you don't look as sexy in a suit as Gardy does.I look sexy as all hell in a suit, but random planes in the background make me look fat.

ThePinStripes

03-30-10, 01:18 AM

I lol when I see that sig. "HERE IS BRETT GARDNER WITH A BAD ASS JET BECAUSE HE IS BAD ASS AND HE'S WEARING CLASSY STUFF BECAUSE HE'S CLASSY AND BAD ASS AND HE'S HOLDING A BASEBALL BAT BECAUSE HE IS A CLASSY BAD ASS THAT PLAYS BASEBALL!!!!"

Jerkface

03-30-10, 02:25 AM

Aren't you leeching that image from their website? Weakmove.

flymick24

03-30-10, 05:00 AM

First you call me sensitive, and then you group me in with the JVIS/BOSS/flymick kind of Yankee fan?

Thems fightin' words, boy.

edit: NTTAWWT

what are you implying?

by the way, JVIS/BOSS/and i would like to take this opportunity to welcome the newest addition to our circle:

http://willyoubemyhero.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ricky-martin0501.jpg

i've heard that he's a hardcore fan and really takes it hard whenever the yankees lose... let's welcome him to our gaggle

so anyhow, yeah... what were you implying, delv?

ajra21

03-30-10, 07:30 AM

.270/.345/.379

We are such a spoiled fanbase.

with speed and seriously good defense.

delv

03-30-10, 10:12 AM

what are you implying?

by the way, JVIS/BOSS/and i would like to take this opportunity to welcome the newest addition to our circle:

http://willyoubemyhero.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ricky-martin0501.jpg

i've heard that he's a hardcore fan and really takes it hard whenever the yankees lose... let's welcome him to our gaggle

so anyhow, yeah... what were you implying, delv?

Just sayin there's nothing wrong with being hispanic. I'm glad you guys are able to rep your ethnicity with such pride.

JSG

03-30-10, 12:34 PM

ambidextrous vishnu on tap ??

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/he_all_right_and_left_UVhNznTDvT2uzaohwLJZ4J

Mark19

03-30-10, 01:14 PM

Gardner with a quiet spring, I wonder how long a leash they'll give him

delv

03-30-10, 01:15 PM

he needs more time.

ajra21

03-30-10, 01:18 PM

that will be fun to see.

CommerceComet

03-31-10, 10:18 AM

that will be fun to see.Unfortunately, watching young players develop is often more painful than fun.

TEPLimey

03-31-10, 10:44 AM

Gardner with a quiet spring, I wonder how long a leash they'll give him
Care to expand on this statement? It's fairly well known that I'm in the camp that doesn't project Gardner to OBP much higher than .350 with basically zero power, but Gardner's ST statistics are even less useful than the normally valueless ST numbers since he was practicing bunting in 2/3 of his PAs.

Gardner should see no less than 100-150 PAs in the regular season before they decide anything.

CommerceComet

03-31-10, 11:29 AM

Gardner should see no less than 100-150 PAs in the regular season before they decide anything.I would agree with that but I wonder if the Yankees will be very patient with Gardner. I think that Randy Winn was not signed as the starter but mostly as insurance in case Gardner doesn't cut it offensively. Given the Yankees have a viable option sitting right on the bench who has proven himself in the bigs, I think the Yankees could have a guick trigger finger on this.

The OF who has most disappointed me so far in ST is Marcus Thames. He is a far better hitter than he has shown so far. If he doesn't start stroking the ball, he should start the season in SWB. Given his potential productivity and the cost (a minor-league contract), Thames could still wind up being the best signing of the off-season. Before someone jumps on me for that conclusion again, make sure you read the underline proviso.

TEPLimey

03-31-10, 11:51 AM

I would agree with that but I wonder if the Yankees will be very patient with Gardner. I think that Randy Winn was not signed as the starter but mostly as insurance in case Gardner doesn't cut it offensively. Given the Yankees have a viable option sitting right on the bench who has proven himself in the bigs, I think the Yankees could have a guick trigger finger on this.

The OF who has most disappointed me so far in ST is Marcus Thames. He is a far better hitter than he has shown so far. If he doesn't start stroking the ball, he should start the season in SWB. Given his potential productivity and the cost (a minor-league contract), Thames could still wind up being the best signing of the off-season. Before someone jumps on me for that conclusion again, make sure you read the underline proviso.
I think the Yankees look at Gardner as having the potential of being a cost controlled, above-average OF for 2-3 seasons beyond 2010. At the cost of giving him some extra ABs over Randy Winn, I believe that they will give him a longer leash, if to only determine his value going forward.

If Gardner can put up a OBP above .365 on a consistent basis, even without power, then the Yankees can consider the LF and CF spots locked up for the next 3+ years with 2 very good OFs at a reasonable price. If Brett can't hack it, then they will have to consider (much to my chagrin) paying big money on a FA like Carl Crawford.

But if upside of giving BG an extra 50 PAs "just to be sure" is potentially avoiding participation in Crawford's $12M per season sweepstakes, then I think they will do so.

delv

03-31-10, 11:52 AM

CommerceComet

03-31-10, 12:56 PM

He can opt out of his contract if he gets sent to AAAI wasn't aware of that. Do you think that he would?

I assume other teams would have interest in him at a reasonable cost. Probably not as a starter but as a platoon OF, 4th OF, and/or PH. In the last four years, he's averaged 1 HR every 16 ABs. I recognize those numbers are mostly as a platoon player but still that's good power production.

CommerceComet

03-31-10, 01:03 PM

If Brett can't hack it, then they will have to consider (much to my chagrin) paying big money on a FA like Carl Crawford.You can count me in the "don't want Carl Crawford and his contract" crowd. Crawford is a good ballplayer, just not worth what he will want, IMO. BTW, you might be right about the longer leash. Randy Winn isn't exactly making a loud statement that he should be starting instead of Gardner.

ajra21

03-31-10, 04:47 PM

i love crawford but i don't want him.

TEPLimey

03-31-10, 05:23 PM

the daily "ajra21 bomb" of posts continues to amaze me.

nnysiny

03-31-10, 05:30 PM

the daily "ajra21 bomb" of posts continues to amaze me.
haha, yeah

ajra21

03-31-10, 05:56 PM

recently, it's been no where near daily. way too busy. thankfully, i'm on holiday (vacation) for a couple of weeks so i can do some posting.

:D

why does it amaze you?

Mark19

03-31-10, 07:22 PM

Care to expand on this statement? It's fairly well known that I'm in the camp that doesn't project Gardner to OBP much higher than .350 with basically zero power, but Gardner's ST statistics are even less useful than the normally valueless ST numbers since he was practicing bunting in 2/3 of his PAs.

Gardner should see no less than 100-150 PAs in the regular season before they decide anything.

I wonder if the team has a contingency plan for Gardner not improving his OBP. Failure to get on base consistently could leave us with a younger Reggie Willits taking a substantial portion of the ABs at a position normally considered a spot for offensive-oriented players. The offense will still be potent but I'm concerned that no amount of nifty glovework can compensate for an OPS around .650 - especially if Johnson or Posada continue their recent trends of missing 30+ games a year.

grizy

03-31-10, 08:20 PM

We have two contingency plans. They are named Thames and Winn.

JSG

04-01-10, 12:43 AM

We have two contingency plans. They are named Thames and Winn.

OK. what is our double secret contingency plan ??!! cheers

delv

04-01-10, 12:48 AM

I wonder if the team has a contingency plan for Gardner not improving his OBP. Failure to get on base consistently could leave us with a younger Reggie Willits taking a substantial portion of the ABs at a position normally considered a spot for offensive-oriented players. The offense will still be potent but I'm concerned that no amount of nifty glovework can compensate for an OPS around .650 - especially if Johnson or Posada continue their recent trends of missing 30+ games a year.

From whence are you pulling this rubbish?

Gardner OPS'd .724 last year. And Gardner at least can consistently slug above his OBP, unlike Willits, who has never done that in the minors or majors.

flymick24

04-01-10, 01:50 AM

Just sayin there's nothing wrong with being hispanic. I'm glad you guys are able to rep your ethnicity with such pride.

http://www.ep.tc/problems/seven/thats_racist.gif

Mark19

04-01-10, 02:37 AM

From whence are you pulling this rubbish?

Gardner OPS'd .724 last year. And Gardner at least can consistently slug above his OBP, unlike Willits, who has never done that in the minors or majors.

In the 41 games after his thumb injury last year, he had only 7 XBH in 95 PAs with an OPS around .610 -- he had similar struggles in April.

In 2008, he only had 7 XBH in 135 PAs for an OPS of .580 -- we can't assume that the Brett we saw in May-June 2009 is the real deal.

I like him and I suspect that his walks and will increase as his strike zone judgement improves, I'm just a little concerned that it is still somewhat possible that he will never be more than the traditional 4th outfielder.

delv

04-02-10, 12:04 AM

89FoxBody

04-02-10, 12:05 AM

His swing is still ugly as hell, but I hope he makes it work.

grizy

04-02-10, 12:27 AM

off of lohud:

"He said some of his mechanical adjustments have made his bat a little faster than he’s used to and he’s been making contact too far out front. He has to get used to seeing the ball deeper and letting his new mechanics take over."

fascinating...

My jets just got an upgrade and I need to get used to the extra horsepower.

Better than Ortiz adjusting to a lower bat speed.

delv

04-02-10, 07:52 PM

I just thought I'd let everyone know that my Gardner t-shirt arrived in the mail today.

ajra21

04-03-10, 10:08 AM

did it come with a large stick-on head attachment?

ieddyi

04-03-10, 02:54 PM

Who's faster Brett or Heathcott?

I think Slade might have it- beat out that routine grounder to 3rd today

ajra21

04-03-10, 03:11 PM

dunno. i'm sure someone will have some timing stats on the two of them. either way, they'd make a helluva defensive outfield in 2014.

Hellsing

04-03-10, 04:42 PM

Who's faster Brett or Heathcott?

I think Slade might have it- beat out that routine grounder to 3rd today

They are both pretty fast.....for white guys.

themgmt

04-03-10, 05:37 PM

Gardner is faster than Heathcott.

Slade was definitely showing off his arm today.

NelsonMuntz

04-04-10, 10:35 AM

In the 41 games after his thumb injury last year, he had only 7 XBH in 95 PAs with an OPS around .610 -- he had similar struggles in April.

In 2008, he only had 7 XBH in 135 PAs for an OPS of .580 -- we can't assume that the Brett we saw in May-June 2009 is the real deal.

I like him and I suspect that his walks and will increase as his strike zone judgement improves, I'm just a little concerned that it is still somewhat possible that he will never be more than the traditional 4th outfielder.
Don't even bother. Expressing concern or, heaven forbid, negative opinions about Gardner is strictly forbidden this year. He progressed at every stage of his minor league career therefore it's absolutely a lock that he'll do the same at the MLB level. Apparently anyone who thinks differently is "ignorant".

ajra21

04-04-10, 11:27 AM

at some time or another, we're all ignorant on this site. it goes with being annoying yankee fans.

bomber999

04-04-10, 08:23 PM

If Brett keeps up this level of play, I never will be happier to admit that I was wrong about a player.

snarkerella

04-04-10, 08:27 PM

for today, I love you, Brett Gardner

DJ27

04-04-10, 08:35 PM

If Brett keeps up this level of play, I never will be happier to admit that I was wrong about a player.

Awesome post. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Really though, great job his first few innings.

delv

04-04-10, 11:20 PM

he has to work on his LF work. two balls that he could've played a lot better. he has to learn to read the spin of the ball.

JBursch23

04-04-10, 11:27 PM

His defense needs a little fine tuning, but offensively had a very nice night. That was a big 2 out RBI vs. Beckett early on. Great job picking up Granderson.

grizy

04-04-10, 11:29 PM

Gardner is going to be bloody scary if he keeps hitting those Ichiro! like low angle line drives straight into the gaps between IF and OFs.

Both of his singles were to opposite field too right in front of Ellsbury, basically the perfect location for him.

CallOfTheCrow

04-04-10, 11:40 PM

If Brett keeps up this level of play, I never will be happier to admit that I was wrong about a player.

So he has to get two hits & a stolen base every game?

False1

04-05-10, 12:30 AM

Don't even bother. Expressing concern or, heaven forbid, negative opinions about Gardner is strictly forbidden this year. He progressed at every stage of his minor league career therefore it's absolutely a lock that he'll do the same at the MLB level. Apparently anyone who thinks differently is "ignorant".Oh lord, can we leave this stuff in the offseason now? We get it - you don't think Gardner will hit at this level. It doesn't mean you're ignorant. There is evidence that he can become a valuable player, building off of his MiLB and '09 production. Tonight was a good start (although that throw he made was miserable).

Not everyone that thinks Gardner can be successful in the role this team has cast for him is a cultist, and not everyone that isn't as optomistic is ignorant.

cyhughes22

04-05-10, 01:29 AM

Oh lord, can we leave this stuff in the offseason now? We get it - you don't think Gardner will hit at this level. It doesn't mean you're ignorant. There is evidence that he can become a valuable player, building off of his MiLB and '09 production. Tonight was a good start (although that throw he made was miserable).

Not everyone that thinks Gardner can be successful in the role this team has cast for him is a cultist, and not everyone that isn't as optomistic is ignorant.

I think in trying to find a middle ground between those that doubt him and those that believe in him we need to establish some facts. The facts are that he has at times looked overmatched and his swing is very ugly. He pops up a lot and sometimes doesn't know how to use his legs properly. He has not exactly show a consistent ability to display even gap power which you would want to see from him. With that being said you can also look at the fact that he has improved at every level he's progressed to and he did a very decent job in a small sample last season. He has yet to get the kind of consistent playing time to truly judge his abilities that say Melky got. Therefore the only fair way to assess him is to wait and see what he can do with an extended run of playing time before making a determination one way or the other. I tend to side with the camp who think Kevin Long can turn him into a productive player who can be here for a few years given the oppurtunity but I can see how others would be skeptical.

False1

04-05-10, 01:49 AM

I think in trying to find a middle ground between those that doubt him and those that believe in him we need to establish some facts. The facts are that he has at times looked overmatched and his swing is very ugly. He pops up a lot and sometimes doesn't know how to use his legs properly. He has not exactly show a consistent ability to display even gap power which you would want to see from him. With that being said you can also look at the fact that he has improved at every level he's progressed to and he did a very decent job in a small sample last season. He has yet to get the kind of consistent playing time to truly judge his abilities that say Melky got. Therefore the only fair way to assess him is to wait and see what he can do with an extended run of playing time before making a determination one way or the other. I tend to side with the camp who think Kevin Long can turn him into a productive player who can be here for a few years given the oppurtunity but I can see how others would be skeptical.Sound and fair. Pet peeve = threads that get taken over by those types of posts. The Swisher thread was almost unbearable at times last year, as anyone who thought he would produce only liked him because he played loud music in the clubhouse and were blind to his shortcomings, and anyone who wasn't high on him was a hater. Back and forth, back and forth...

After ~150 at bats we should have a decent feel for whether Gardner can hold a job in the bigs. I was encouraged today - he's got about 35 games to hold on to that gig.

ajra21

04-05-10, 11:01 AM

grizy

04-05-10, 11:29 AM

he did well tonight. that throw wasn't impressive but overall, brett did everything that could have been asked of him. he really needs to bunt or show bunt in order to keep that style of hitting productive.

No he doesn't. The way he's swinging the bat now is more a low angle line drive swing.

He'll bunt once in a blue moon, but if he can hit the ball over the SS or 2b's head he'll be much much more successful than slapping them into the ground like half of the posters in this thread want him to do.

Jeter Kid

04-05-10, 11:32 AM

I liked what I saw last night. Aside from that atrocious throw home.

ajra21

04-05-10, 11:33 AM

i disagree in the sense that bunting or showing bunt will help him to maintain his his hitting. it'll make him a more rounded player, giving him more ways to get on base.

OldYankeeFan

04-05-10, 11:47 AM

i disagree in the sense that bunting or showing bunt will help him to maintain his his hitting. it'll make him a more rounded player, giving him more ways to get on base.It will also bring in the 3B, having to protect against the bunt as long as he lays one down with some regularity. And with the way Gardner goes the other way, he'll then get even more ground balls by a drawn in 3B. Regardless of how well he is swinging, the bunt should definately be part of his game.

delv

04-05-10, 11:53 AM

he showed bunt last night, and I thought it was a great idea... and then I realized Beltre was at third.

With good reason, Gardner decided to swing away...

Hellsing

04-05-10, 12:14 PM

It's one game. Let's not overreact.

delv

04-05-10, 12:15 PM

It's one game. Let's not overreact.

:lol: Are you gonna post that in every other thread, too?

Maynerd

04-05-10, 12:20 PM

It's one game. Let's not overreact.This is NYYFans.com. If we weren't allowed to overreact, what would we do?

JSG

04-05-10, 12:32 PM

I liked what I saw last night. Aside from that atrocious throw home.

i wept openly when i realized what that would do to his ARM stats.

NelsonMuntz

04-05-10, 02:16 PM

Not everyone that thinks Gardner can be successful in the role this team has cast for him is a cultist, and not everyone that isn't as optomistic is ignorant.
I couldn't agree more. I never once questioned the intelligence of anyone who was arguing on Gardner's behalf but I was skewered for even suggesting that Gardner may not succeed in an everyday role.

Hellsing

04-05-10, 04:40 PM

:lol: Are you gonna post that in every other thread, too?

Yes.

5chars.

just-blaze

04-05-10, 05:02 PM

Loved his approach......the results might not be the same as last night but if he keeps the same approach he will be more than enough to be a LF for a playoff team.

Glad to be wrong on him for now.

Blazer

04-05-10, 05:44 PM

he showed bunt last night, and I thought it was a great idea... and then I realized Beltre was at third.

With good reason, Gardner decided to swing away...

I think he would have dragged that bunt toward 1B because it was against Okijima, a LHP.

Jasbro

04-05-10, 05:53 PM

I think the immortal words of Mr. Wolf would be appropriate right now.

ajra21

04-05-10, 06:53 PM

It will also bring in the 3B, having to protect against the bunt as long as he lays one down with some regularity. And with the way Gardner goes the other way, he'll then get even more ground balls by a drawn in 3B. Regardless of how well he is swinging, the bunt should definately be part of his game.

totally. couldn't agree more.

jobasfistpump62

04-06-10, 03:07 PM

Thames playing left, batting 8th.

parkerstrong

04-06-10, 03:27 PM

Thames playing left, batting 8th.

If that is the case, it looks less likely that Gardner is the everyday LF and more like a platoon.....

nnysiny

04-06-10, 03:37 PM

If that is the case, it looks less likely that Gardner is the everyday LF and more like a platoon.....
wasnt that the plan all along, especially with a lefty starting?

R.V.47

04-06-10, 03:50 PM

If that is the case, it looks less likely that Gardner is the everyday LF and more like a platoon.....

Not necessarily, lets see a few more games against lefties until we say that. Lester is one of the best lefties in the game, could just be a special case.

ajra21

04-06-10, 04:07 PM

if thames mashes lefties, then i guess it becomes a platoon. if he doesn't mash lefties and brett holds his own, then brett will be an everyday player.

delv

04-06-10, 04:26 PM

Or, if Granderson fails against lefties, then Thames will platoon for him.

delv

04-06-10, 05:12 PM

from lohud:

"Pretty cool to watch Gardner rewind video of Jon Lester’s pickoff move over and over this afternoon. He’s not in the lineup, but Gardner was studying just in case."

About time this fool started studying up.

OldYankeeFan

04-06-10, 06:07 PM

Girardi likes to use his bench players, especially against certain matchups and in certain parks. JG would be a fool not to start Thames (1-2, HR against Lester) in Fenway. I don't believe at this point it is any indication that it means an automatic platoon situation in LF going forward.

PirateChief

04-06-10, 07:16 PM

Hi Brett,

Wish you were playing tonight. Miss you.

delv

04-06-10, 10:42 PM

He is definitely not comfy out there in LF. He needs practice.

good job at the plate today

themgmt

04-10-10, 04:46 PM

Loving the oppo approach.

grizy

04-10-10, 04:49 PM

Gardner is doing amazing this year. He's using his entire body in the swing and he doesn't look overpowered by 95mph fastballs anymore.

If he can stay away from the DL (always a risk with the way he hustles all the time), he's going to score well over 100 runs.

CokeZero

04-10-10, 05:02 PM

No dive?

S2K

04-10-10, 05:06 PM

Fox stinks and doesn't show the actual hit again. It happened so fast and without seeing it again I couldn't tell clearly, but I don't understand why Gardner wasn't fully laid out trying for that. It doesn't matter if he misses it and it goes to the wall given the score. I wish I could see it again, but I don't get why there wasn't an all out try.

Miss Yvonne

04-10-10, 05:11 PM

He would have done a front Kapler had he dove for the ball.

S2K

04-10-10, 05:13 PM

Ok, thanks. As I say, Fox cut away too quickly and offered no replay. I just saw it dunk in front of Gardner who held up to play it off the bounce.

YankeePride1967

04-10-10, 05:15 PM

Ok, thanks. As I say, Fox cut away too quickly and offered no replay. I just saw it dunk in front of Gardner who held up to play it off the bounce.

Yes, If you think of it, check the replay of it again, the ball landed quite a bit in front of him.

S2K

04-10-10, 05:27 PM

Yes, If you think of it, check the replay of it again, the ball landed quite a bit in front of him.

I will have to wait until it is posted. Unfortunately Fox just showed reaction shots and not the actual play.

teknetic

04-10-10, 05:33 PM

Headfirst dive on turf trying to catch a ball that he wouldn't have caught anyways. Solid.

just-blaze

04-10-10, 05:38 PM

Meanwhile CC is recruiting Carl Crawford to sign with NY.........if Brett keeps this up that will be a non issue.

If CC wants friends, Cliff Lee will do just fine.

S2K

04-10-10, 05:39 PM

Meanwhile CC is recruiting Carl Crawford to sign with NY.........if Brett keeps this up that will be a non issue.

If CC wants friends, Cliff Lee will do just fine.

Amen to Cliff Lee.

grizy

04-10-10, 05:42 PM

With today's performance, Brett Gardner improves to .467OBP with .385 slugging for a total OPS of .851.

intrimazz

04-10-10, 05:42 PM

Melky would have dove...heck Knoblauch would have dove... run and dive - no-hitters don't happen every day - :mad:

I need a replay.

jobasfistpump62

04-10-10, 05:43 PM

Melky would have dove...heck Knoblauch would have dove... run and dive - no-hitters don't happen every day - :mad:

I need a replay.
It wasn't even close. Are you another Melky lover?

machphantom

04-10-10, 05:44 PM

Melky would have dove...heck Knoblauch would have dove... run and dive - no-hitters don't happen every day - :mad:

I need a replay.
Well then a lot of people would have had a photo of Melky or Knoblauch eating grass, cause that ball was blooped perfectly.

grizy

04-10-10, 05:46 PM

Melky would have dove...heck Knoblauch would have dove... run and dive - no-hitters don't happen every day - :mad:

I need a replay.

Gardner really had no shot at the ball.

kan_t

04-10-10, 05:47 PM

Melky would have dove...heck Knoblauch would have dove... run and dive - no-hitters don't happen every day - :mad:

I need a replay.
And Gardner would still get closer to the ball without diving.

NYYDragoon

04-10-10, 05:48 PM

Melky would have dove...heck Knoblauch would have dove... run and dive - no-hitters don't happen every day - :mad:

I need a replay.Curious...your first post and you spout nonsense like this.

machphantom

04-10-10, 05:51 PM

With today's performance, Brett Gardner improves to .467OBP with .385 slugging for a total OPS of .851.
Grizy, I know this is going to sound stupid but I really dont know much about stats beyond OBP. How good an OPS is that?

just-blaze

04-10-10, 05:54 PM

Grizy, I know this is going to sound stupid but I really dont know much about stats beyond OBP. How good an OPS is that?

Very....although its not sustainable the way he's doing it thus far.

And if he were a CF it would be near elite....which the Yankees might want to explore.

intrimazz

04-10-10, 06:04 PM

Curious...your first post and you spout nonsense like this.

The number of my posts has no bearing on this topic. Upon seeing the replay finally, the ball was indeed a hard hit and Gardner does start to run...but why stop and let it fall? Just give it all you got and go for it. I don't care if the ball rolls to the wall and the runner scores, at least you give it your all. A crappy hitter like Shoppach is up, would have been prudent to play him shallow anyway.

intrimazz

04-10-10, 06:07 PM

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7367035

the replay

DEADSOX

04-10-10, 06:12 PM

Gardner wasn't getting that ball regardless.

Veovis

04-10-10, 06:14 PM

Considering Gardner is Gritty Gutty Brett Gardner who always gives his all, you're wrong.

flymick24

04-10-10, 06:15 PM

sinking line drive... unless gardner's playing shallow, he's not getting that

he wasn't playing shallow... therefore, even a dive would not have gotten him to the ball

YankeePride1967

04-10-10, 06:15 PM

grizy

04-10-10, 06:17 PM

and it still looks like Gardner had no chance.

JSG

04-10-10, 06:57 PM

very nice, solid game from brett.

S2K

04-10-10, 07:46 PM

I just saw the full replay finally on ESPN. There was no chance for Gardner. A full out run and dive would not have been close. Fair base hit.

parkerstrong

04-10-10, 07:49 PM

The number of my posts has no bearing on this topic. Upon seeing the replay finally, the ball was indeed a hard hit and Gardner does start to run...but why stop and let it fall? Just give it all you got and go for it. I don't care if the ball rolls to the wall and the runner scores, at least you give it your all. A crappy hitter like Shoppach is up, would have been prudent to play him shallow anyway.

ha ha ha ha ha....Knoblauch would have dove? Seriously? And if you want to complain he is playing too deep, look in the dugout. Shoppach has a career SLG of .449-you don't play him shallow.

If you complain that Gardner did something wrong makes it seem to me you are just looking for something to complain about.

parkerstrong

04-10-10, 07:54 PM

Gardner has been very productive so far....I am impressed. Lets hope he keeps it up!

machphantom

04-10-10, 08:54 PM

Very....although its not sustainable the way he's doing it thus far.

And if he were a CF it would be near elite....which the Yankees might want to explore.
Thanks man... I really need to get more well versed on stats.

JBursch23

04-10-10, 08:56 PM

Brett Gardner has been very good. If he continues to produce, I'm interested to see how he does against LHPs as well.

jobasfistpump62

04-10-10, 09:22 PM

The number of my posts has no bearing on this topic. Upon seeing the replay finally, the ball was indeed a hard hit and Gardner does start to run...but why stop and let it fall? Just give it all you got and go for it. I don't care if the ball rolls to the wall and the runner scores, at least you give it your all. A crappy hitter like Shoppach is up, would have been prudent to play him shallow anyway.
Granderson and Swisher should've dove too because they had just as much of a chance as Gardner did catching that.

ajra21

04-11-10, 08:51 AM

Granderson and Swisher should've dove too because they had just as much of a chance as Gardner did catching that.

:lol:

agreed. brett was more likely to injure himself on the hard carpet than catch that ball. as for the rest of his game, he's doing more than enough right now. his five hits & 2 walks have produced 3 steals and 4 runs. not bad at all.

grizy

04-11-10, 04:40 PM

ThePinStripes

04-11-10, 05:55 PM

Gardner's 0-4 afternoon with a K has dropped his line to a much more pedestrian

.294BA, .368OBP, .663OPS.

I am rooting for Gardner super hard because he has so much upside and we have him for minimum wage for 2 more years and 3 arbitration years after that.

And his lack of power will cause Elias to undervalue him and he'll end up super cheap even during arbitration years.

One of his outs was hard hit line drive, but it was right to the SS. His 3rd strike was definitely a ball, too.

Nevertheless, if he keeps up his near 300 BA + .370 OPS, I'm thrilled.

ThePinStripes

04-11-10, 05:58 PM

The number of my posts has no bearing on this topic. Upon seeing the replay finally, the ball was indeed a hard hit and Gardner does start to run...but why stop and let it fall? Just give it all you got and go for it. I don't care if the ball rolls to the wall and the runner scores, at least you give it your all. A crappy hitter like Shoppach is up, would have been prudent to play him shallow anyway.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7367035

the replay

Glad you could admit you were wrong. That ball fell 10-15 feet in front of him.

ajra21

04-12-10, 08:46 AM

Gardner's 0-4 afternoon with a K has dropped his line to a much more pedestrian

.294BA, .368OBP, .663OPS.

I am rooting for Gardner super hard because he has so much upside and we have him for minimum wage for 2 more years and 3 arbitration years after that.

And his lack of power will cause Elias to undervalue him and he'll end up super cheap even during arbitration years.

agreed. those arb years are unlikely to be expensive given the type of player he is. despite the min-hot-start, i'm standing by my desite for a .340 OBP over 500 ABs. that should bring plenty of stolen bases.

JSG

04-13-10, 06:10 PM

Yankee Tripper

04-13-10, 06:13 PM

.294BA, .368OBP, .663OPS.

That's really going to be the number to judge Brett. As long at it remains over .350 he has a good amount of value.

Yankee Tripper

04-13-10, 06:14 PM

i thought gardner got totally JOBBED on both checked swing K calls. per michael kay, a classic o neill pet peeve is a home plate ump that also calls check swing strikes and won't get help from the 3B ump. per o neill, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the ump to do both. i thought gardner had pretty clearly held up on both calls. so for me, his line will look much worse than how he actually played.
Umm, Paul O'Neil was very good Yankee, but I wouldn't take his word on ball strike calls on anything. Did you ever see a strike that was called that O'Neil agree with in his career. Ever?

Tifoso

04-13-10, 06:16 PM

Gardner is OK as long as he plays stellar D and steals a base or two.

This team can afford him offensively, I'd say. ;)

JSG

04-13-10, 06:20 PM

Umm, Paul O'Neil was very good Yankee, but I wouldn't take his word on ball strike calls on anything. Did you ever see a strike that was called that O'Neil agree with in his career. Ever?

well, yeah (!!!!!!), there is that, but it makes sense. if the ump is focusing on balls and strikes, the check or lack thereof has to be peripheral vision only. in any case, i didn't think it was close on both calls on brett.

kan_t

04-13-10, 06:46 PM

i thought gardner got totally JOBBED on both checked swing K calls. per michael kay, a classic o neill pet peeve is a home plate ump that also calls check swing strikes and won't get help from the 3B ump. per o neill, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the ump to do both. i thought gardner had pretty clearly held up on both "swings". so for me, his line will look much worse than how he actually played.
The HP should ask the 3B umpire. But I think he clearly went in one of the checked swing K after seeing the replay.

delv

04-13-10, 06:51 PM

I've been disappointed by the non-presence of the pull-swing that Brett sported last year when he was hot and hit a few HRs & triples

wileedog

04-13-10, 09:10 PM

I've been disappointed by the non-presence of the pull-swing that Brett sported last year when he was hot and hit a few HRs & triples

Agreed. Seems to be trying to slap everything to left. I haven't seen him drive a ball yet.

grizy

04-13-10, 09:12 PM

He was pulling earlier too.

I don't know why he's slapping again.

JSG

04-13-10, 10:10 PM

The HP should ask the 3B umpire. But I think he clearly went in one of the checked swing K after seeing the replay.

i didn't see it again, but the side angles on both during the game, it didn't look like he broke to me. grandy and nick for sure.

ThePinStripes

04-14-10, 07:07 AM

I've been disappointed by the non-presence of the pull-swing that Brett sported last year when he was hot and hit a few HRs & triples

He hit 1 HR, and it was an in the park HR.

themgmt

04-14-10, 07:09 AM

He hit 1 HR, and it was an in the park HR.

Why say something like that when the verifiable facts are readily available? 3 HRs. 2 over the fence, in Toronto and Citi Field.

He definitely got jobbed on both check swings, especially the first one. Should have had 3 walks.

Anyway, he's seen a lot of pitches away to start the season, just a small sample. Pulling the ball is actually not a problem for him, especially off speed stuff. When he struggled he wasn't stroking the ball to left field like he is now. I bet he worked on taking that outside fastball to LF all off season.

delv

04-14-10, 07:33 AM

Why say something like that when the verifiable facts are readily available? 3 HRs. 2 over the fence, in Toronto and Citi Field.

He definitely got jobbed on both check swings, especially the first one. Should have had 3 walks.

Anyway, he's seen a lot of pitches away to start the season, just a small sample. Pulling the ball is actually not a problem for him, especially off speed stuff. When he struggled he wasn't stroking the ball to left field like he is now. I bet he worked on taking that outside fastball to LF all off season.

forgot about that one

stazsanity

04-14-10, 08:11 AM

He was pulling earlier too.

I don't know why he's slapping again.

niether do I...but at the same time, I don't think you're going to see a whole lot of him trying to yank balls to the right side....drive the ball if it's pitched on the inner half? sure. but i guarantee kevin long, as well as anyone else involved that has a word to say about his swing. is telling him to put the ball in play.

as far as him "slapping the ball to the left side," anything at all the he hits to the left side of the infield that's not hit directly at a fielder is going to necessitate a perfect catch and throw in order to get him...there's probably been a premium placed on him using the left side of the infield.

having said that, if it does become a slap-fest which removed his aggressiveness and compromises his at bats, i agree they shoudl go- but i like the idea of him using the left side.

as far as the earlier comment about the HRs/tripples...the second you start seeing Gardner aiming for the short porch in right and putting air under the ball is the second you're going to see WInn get more playing time...Gardner is not a power hitter and he shouldn't even be thinking about homeruns.

delv

04-14-10, 08:23 AM

niether do I...but at the same time, I don't think you're going to see a whole lot of him trying to yank balls to the right side....drive the ball if it's pitched on the inner half? sure. but i guarantee kevin long, as well as anyone else involved that has a word to say about his swing. is telling him to put the ball in play.

as far as him "slapping the ball to the left side," anything at all the he hits to the left side of the infield that's not hit directly at a fielder is going to necessitate a perfect catch and throw in order to get him...there's probably been a premium placed on him using the left side of the infield.

having said that, if it does become a slap-fest which removed his aggressiveness and compromises his at bats, i agree they shoudl go- but i like the idea of him using the left side.

as far as the earlier comment about the HRs/tripples...the second you start seeing Gardner aiming for the short porch in right and putting air under the ball is the second you're going to see WInn get more playing time...Gardner is not a power hitter and he shouldn't even be thinking about homeruns.

I agree w/ everything you say except concerning this last part. Sure, HRs may not be his game, but any ball in the gap for him is a potential triple and an easy double. If he could use that to his advantage, then we really have something.

stazsanity

04-14-10, 08:29 AM

I agree w/ everything you say except concerning this last part. Sure, HRs may not be his game, but any ball in the gap for him is a potential triple and an easy double. If he could use that to his advantage, then we really have something.I

I may not have stated my point clearly enough..

I obviously have no problem with him driving the ball to the outfield...it's when we start seeing "uppercut swings" and swinging for the fences that a red flag should shoot up

JSG

04-14-10, 08:33 AM

He was pulling earlier too.

I don't know why he's slapping again.

are you talking about brett or JVIS ??

(dunno, maybe it's the roy halladay video thing again) ...........

OldYankeeFan

04-14-10, 09:17 AM

I agree w/ everything you say except concerning this last part. Sure, HRs may not be his game, but any ball in the gap for him is a potential triple and an easy double. If he could use that to his advantage, then we really have something.I agree and I think we will eventually see it. We know he has the ability to do it as he did it early last year. It just seems to me Brett's (college, MiLB and MLB)progressions were a series of buliding blocks built around what his team needed from him, for him to get the most playing time. I think Brett understands that his offensive value to THIS team will soley be judged on one stat...OBP and he concentrated his off season work soley to that end.

Once he has proved his value in this area I believe he will continue to work on his game to add even more dimensions to it. For now however I will be very satisfied with anything over a .350 OBP regardless of what his SLG may be.

teknetic

04-14-10, 01:40 PM

Didn't realize he was leading the team in P/PA until it was mentioned in the broadcast.

Nifty.

JSG

04-14-10, 03:38 PM

my guess is thames starts tomorrow.

grizy

04-14-10, 04:00 PM

Gardner line for season:

BA/SLG .217. OBP .333. OPS .551

5Rs. On track to ~101Rs, including the time he's been sat (1 full game and 6IPs out of 8 games so far, on pace to get just over 500PAs)

SLURPEE

04-14-10, 04:03 PM

Yankee Tripper

04-14-10, 04:07 PM

He hit 1 HR, and it was an in the park HR.
He hit 3, 2 of them left the yard.

JSG

04-14-10, 04:15 PM

I like Gardner. He's patient and if he has a .350/.360 obp stealing bases I'm happy. but can he please start hitting, at the very least, the ball hard?
It just seems he constantly hits weak grounders.

he's looked pretty good in a few of the games and i thought he got jobbed a few times yesterday on strike calls (tho others say not so), as well as robbed on a smash to short. today it was a slap-happy grounder fest, but let's fact it, a bunch of guys looked like crap vs pineiro today. hopefully he can get his swing together.

delv

04-14-10, 05:16 PM

Blazer

04-14-10, 09:07 PM

He's not a MLB hitter, but if he can maintain a league average OBP in the #9 slot he'll be OK... for now.

delv

04-14-10, 09:08 PM

*suicides hiszelf*

False1

04-14-10, 11:25 PM

He's not a MLB hitter, but if he can maintain a league average OBP in the #9 slot he'll be OK... for now.Is it just me that sees conflict in that comment? If he maintains league average OBP, doesn't that kind of mean he's a MLB hitter?

delv

04-14-10, 11:26 PM

Is it just me that sees conflict in that comment? If he maintains league average OBP, doesn't that kind of mean he's a MLB hitter?

you misunderstood. he means the other MLB, as in, MLB: an acronym for monstrous blast launcher.

NYYRules#1

04-15-10, 01:08 AM

He's not a MLB hitter, but if he can maintain a league average OBP in the #9 slot he'll be OK... for now.

A league average OBP is definitely an "MLB hitter."

And he should likely be a little higher than a league average OBP too. Combine that with the SBs, the general speed on the basepaths, and his awesome glove, and you have a valuable player. His lack of power is more than made up for with the other facets of his game - getting on at a decent clip, running like a madman, and playing great defense.

Blazer

04-15-10, 02:00 AM

Is it just me that sees conflict in that comment? If he maintains league average OBP, doesn't that kind of mean he's a MLB hitter?

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks hitting ones way on and drawing BB are 2 different skills. His career .673 OPS is what you expect from your backup C not your LF.

I hope Brett proves me wrong, bur from what I've seen thus far he's a speedy Ryan Langerhans.

yankee82093

04-15-10, 06:49 AM

JSG

04-15-10, 07:07 AM

This is misleading. OPS undervalues Gardner. He has a career 93 wRC+. This means for his career, he's been 7% below average. That's fine for an elite defender.

something tells me stats won't rule the day for gardner, meaning i think he'll have to hit with a little more consistency and punch if he wants to stick 7/31.

if you saw him hit yesterday, what was your non-statistical impression ??

stazsanity

04-15-10, 07:55 AM

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks hitting ones way on and drawing BB are 2 different skills. His career .673 OPS is what you expect from your backup C not your LF.

I hope Brett proves me wrong, bur from what I've seen thus far he's a speedy Ryan Langerhans.

OPS will never be an accuraete tool to evaluate Brett Gardner's value to this team... his game has nothing to do with slugging percentage... as long as he keeps his OBP north of .350 (hence, getting on base 1/3 of the time) he's doing his job. With his speed and ability to run the bases, combined with a 12.7 and 7.2 UZR in his first two seasons in the majors respectively, he'll be more than adequate as a 9 hole hitter and above average defender. After all, his chief responsibility to this team is finding a way on base and setting the table for the top of the lineup.

I've said this before and been laughed off of these boards, but where's the mandate that says the Yankees MUST have an All-Star at every position? Sure, you'd like to see your corner outfielders have a bit more power...but when you're sending up a guy that's going to hit north of .270 w/ an OBP of more than likely north of .350 that's going to steal bases, set the table for the top of the lineup, and 7play his position exceptionally, that's quite a contribution. Shop that player to 85-90% of the other M.L. teams and see who signs up.

grizy

04-15-10, 08:02 AM

if you saw him hit yesterday, what was your non-statistical impression ??

I saw him drawing a walk and scoring a run.

Gardner needs to slug a little. By a little I mean like .350~400 (with ~.280ba, that's mostly singles and occasionally legging out a double/triple), just enough to occasionally get it into the outfield and keep fielders honest or capitalize on IFs playing in.