View Full Version : 2010 Brett Gardner Performance Thread
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Gardner's OBP alone makes him a better player than Ellsbury ever will be.
And yes, judging by ESPN broadcasts, he's getting main stream respect. They talked about he could actually make the all-star game and they described him as a luxury that we're very fortunate to have.
brett garner with a 400 obp is a beast. even if his obp is 360~ he's a pretty nice player. i don't think he'll obp at a 400 clip in the long run though, maybe something like 365 to 370.
THEBOSS84
06-23-10, 08:56 AM
Great throw to second base last night to almost nail Reynolds.
Great throw to second base last night to almost nail Reynolds. It seemed to me that the throw was in time, but he missed the tag. Still, a very solid play by Gardner.
I was always a fan, but this is better than I ever expected. If he gets 35 2Bs, 7 3Bs, 5 HRs and drives in around 45-50, along with a .375+ OBP, the Yankees will not even look at Crawford.
parkerstrong
06-23-10, 10:46 PM
Big ground out for Gardner....hurts his OBP/SLG, but helped the team tie the game up!
b_joseph
06-24-10, 12:26 AM
Be careful my man
jimmykey2
06-24-10, 01:05 AM
Be careful my man
Exactly. I loved the effort, but I would rather him be out than be injured.
on pace to score over a 100 runs.
Mythbusters say it's faster to run through first base instead of sliding into it. Gardy made a bad play.
GordonGecko
06-24-10, 08:51 AM
Mythbusters say it's faster to run through first base instead of sliding into it. Gardy made a bad play.
By sliding your hand will always be touching the base as soon as you get there whereas by running you have to time your strides so your lead front foot hits the bag first. Did mythbusters show that running is always the better option?
PirateChief
06-24-10, 08:57 AM
Sliding creates greater surface area for friction and actually slows you down. Obviously when avoiding a tag is your objective sliding makes some additional sense. It's definitely not faster, though. Gardner, luckily, is fast.
It doesn't surprise me that hardheaded players with crappy numbers that just don't get it like Nick Punto do it. I think Gardner may honestly have just had a bit of a brain fart.
THEBOSS84
06-24-10, 11:34 AM
Brett Gardner leads the majors with 4.53 pitches per plate appearance. That would be the highest average since Rickey Henderson’s 4.55 in 1997.
This quote is from the below link:
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/tmi-mlb/post/_/id/4081/1st-pitch-pitches-are-piling-up
I wonder if Gardner just saw potential for a collision since he, the ball, and the pitcher all got there at the same time.
By sliding your hand will always be touching the base as soon as you get there whereas by running you have to time your strides so your lead front foot hits the bag first. Did mythbusters show that running is always the better option?
It's always faster. You slide into second and third because
1. you go under the tag
2. you SLOW DOWN so you don't overrun the bag.
Yankee Fan in Boston
06-24-10, 01:53 PM
Brett Gardner leads the majors with 4.53 pitches per plate appearance. That would be the highest average since Rickey Henderson’s 4.55 in 1997.
That's really impressive.
GordonGecko
06-24-10, 02:14 PM
Brett Gardner leads the majors with 4.53 pitches per plate appearance. That would be the highest average since Rickey Henderson’s 4.55 in 1997.
That's really impressive.
Yeah, it is. And I bet you if you took the Yankees team pitches per appearance they'd come out on top (especially with Brett & Swisher) against the league. Grinding down opposing pitchers takes its toll and forces mistakes & opportunities that other teams who always swing at everything will never see
TheGameEpisode2
06-24-10, 02:40 PM
Brett Gardner leads the majors with 4.53 pitches per plate appearance. That would be the highest average since Rickey Henderson’s 4.55 in 1997.
What a beast.
Yeah, it is. And I bet you if you took the Yankees team pitches per appearance they'd come out on top (especially with Brett & Swisher) against the league. Grinding down opposing pitchers takes its toll and forces mistakes & opportunities that other teams who always swing at everything will never see
And imagine if Nick Johnson was healthy? Starters would be knocked out by the fourth.
Brett Gardner leads the majors with 4.53 pitches per plate appearance. That would be the highest average since Rickey Henderson’s 4.55 in 1997.
why did we ever doubt him?
GordonGecko
06-24-10, 02:58 PM
why did we ever doubt him?
They have hatred of hypeless unproven rookies
They have hatred of hypeless unproven rookies
Gardner's mom didn't even predict what he's doing
on pace to score over a 100 runs.
i think this is exactly what k long predicted for brett in ST !!
Just imagine what Teix could do with Gardner getting on second base (with a single/bb+SB or some combination thereof) and taking the teeth out of the lame shift.
Just imagine what Teix could do with Gardner getting on second base (with a single/bb+SB or some combination thereof) and taking the teeth out of the lame shift.
imagine what Gardner could do if Teix got hits
Zimmers' Helmet
06-25-10, 08:33 AM
Gardner should be leading off with Jeter bumped down to the #2 slot if the Yankees want to maximize his OBP and speed.
Dexter Morgan
06-25-10, 09:19 AM
Gardner should be leading off with Jeter bumped down to the #2 slot if the Yankees want to maximize his OBP and speed.
So Jeter can ground into a DP every game? and not every other game?
parkerstrong
06-25-10, 03:17 PM
So Jeter can ground into a DP every game? and not every other game?
This is the biggest reason why Jeter and Damon switched! If Gardner is to bat close to Jeter, Jeter needs to bat ahead of him. Jeter leadoff, Gardner second so the DP is very unlikely with Gardner running.
ChrisNY
06-25-10, 04:33 PM
This is the biggest reason why Jeter and Damon switched! If Gardner is to bat close to Jeter, Jeter needs to bat ahead of him. Jeter leadoff, Gardner second so the DP is very unlikely with Gardner running.
This sounds nice, but I don't know if Girardi will ever go for it. Also its not going to fly if Gardner's production drops (like his amazing OBP).
Zimmers' Helmet
06-26-10, 03:22 AM
So Jeter can ground into a DP every game? and not every other game?
With Brett's speed, that wouldn't be the type of concern you make it out to be. Stolen bases reduce that possibility as does the potential for the hit and run.
With the 1st baseman trying to hold Gardner while the second baseman is shading towards second for a potential throw on a stolen base attempt, Jeter gets a nice big hole between 1st and 2nd to aim for. If you've been watching Jeter long enough, the one thing he does better than most is go the other way when needed.
Jeter's OBP no longer warrants leading off. Gardner's .400 OBP does.
I don't think Gardner could see Padilla's pitches. lol.
that 55mph bugs bunny pitch + 92mph fastball is frigging insane.
jobasfistpump62
06-26-10, 03:51 AM
As for the sliding debate, I was talking to a college baseball player who I saw slide into first base. I asked him after the game why he did it and he said that it gives the illusion that he's getting there faster. It kind of makes sense, but I still don't agree with sliding.
.... so even he knows it's an illusion. lol.
it's ok. he just wanted to look cool, not realizing that it's not that cool.
ThePinStripes
06-26-10, 01:57 PM
With Brett's speed, that wouldn't be the type of concern you make it out to be. Stolen bases reduce that possibility as does the potential for the hit and run.Except Jeter swings on the first pitch frequently.
ThePinStripes
06-26-10, 02:00 PM
Sliding creates greater surface area for friction and actually slows you down. Obviously when avoiding a tag is your objective sliding makes some additional sense. It's definitely not faster, though. Gardner, luckily, is fast.
It doesn't surprise me that hardheaded players with crappy numbers that just don't get it like Nick Punto do it. I think Gardner may honestly have just had a bit of a brain fart.
That and there is no more force pushing you forward! If you're not pushing with your legs, you're slowing down.
THEBOSS84
06-29-10, 09:31 AM
He's good:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yorkyankees/post/_/id/5374/why-losing-gardner-would-be-a-big-deal?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Yankee Fan in Boston
06-29-10, 10:33 AM
He's good:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yorkyankees/post/_/id/5374/why-losing-gardner-would-be-a-big-deal?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Hmmm......
He's the ultimate sparkplug. His on-base percentage when leading off an inning is .500, second-best in the majors. The Yankees, by way of Bill James Online (http://billjamesonline.net/), average 0.78 runs per inning when he leads off, best on the team and sixth-best in the AL.
He scores 43 percent of the time that he's on base (a stat tracked by Baseball-Reference.com (http://baseball-reference.com/)). That's the best rate on the Yankees and the fifth-best in the American League.
a lot of that is sss and incidental.
NYYDragoon
06-29-10, 11:06 AM
As for the sliding debate, I was talking to a college baseball player who I saw slide into first base. I asked him after the game why he did it and he said that it gives the illusion that he's getting there faster. It kind of makes sense, but I still don't agree with sliding.It's not a "debate". Sliding into first will not get you there quicker than running. But I do agree with the illusion part.
THEBOSS84
06-29-10, 11:07 AM
It's not a "debate". Sliding into first will not get you there quicker than running. But I do agree with the illusion part.
What does an "illusion" do for you as a base-runner?
What does an "illusion" do for you as a base-runner?I suppose it could increase the odds of being called safe on a bang-bang play? But I can't remember the last time I saw someone slide into first and was called safe.
NYYDragoon
06-29-10, 11:11 AM
What does an "illusion" do for you as a base-runner?Jack sh*t. But, I dunno, it's like you're running full speed and feel like you need to do something...anything to give yourself a boost. So you consider sliding. It's an urge you have to resist.
Yankee Tripper
06-29-10, 11:15 AM
I suppose it could increase the odds of being called safe on a bang-bang play? But I can't remember the last time I saw someone slide into first and was called safe.The only time it "helps" is if the throw is up the line and you dive to avoid the sweep tag by the 1B.
What does an "illusion" do for you as a base-runner?
it makes you do dumb things, like sliding into first base
What does an "illusion" do for you as a base-runner?
my thought, when reading that quote, was that it deceives the umpire...
brett yardner strikes again !!!!
murpjf88
07-03-10, 02:57 PM
brett yardner strikes again !!!!
You've been waiting a long time to use that.
snarkerella
07-03-10, 02:59 PM
I was optimistic about him this year but I never expected what he's done so far. He rules.
And he has more home runs than Joe Mauer.
Can he wear Brett! on his back yet?
groundhoggator
07-03-10, 04:54 PM
Brett has always shown once he gets comfortable at a level - he's successful. In year 2 in the show - Brett is now delivering the full skill set that was missing on this team.
It would not shock me to see next year Brett take over the leadoff duties, resulting in this lineup
Gardner LF
Jeter SS
Tex 1b
Arod 3b
Cano 2b
Posada DH/C
Swisher RF
Granderson CF
Backup C (believe Cervelli will be traded)
A lot of people were high on Brett Gardner... but even the most optimistic of us wasn't expecting this.
When Kay talked about how Gardner puts on a show of power in batting practice... I thought about Ichiro!.
Gardner obviously isn't quite at that level but the comparisons are painfully obvious.
You've been waiting a long time to use that.
only exactly a month !!
Rocketman
07-03-10, 06:30 PM
I was optimistic about him this year but I never expected what he's done so far. He rules.
And he has more home runs than Joe Mauer.
Mauer's power this season is for real. With a full season, I expect 35 HR from him in next year in 2010.
Rocketman
07-04-10, 02:23 PM
A yardy for gardy! INSIDE THE PARK HR!
b_joseph
07-04-10, 02:27 PM
Prob time for him to hit up the order for an extended period of time.
parkerstrong
07-04-10, 02:40 PM
Brett has always shown once he gets comfortable at a level - he's successful. In year 2 in the show - Brett is now delivering the full skill set that was missing on this team.
It would not shock me to see next year Brett take over the leadoff duties, resulting in this lineup
Gardner LF
Jeter SS
Tex 1b
Arod 3b
Cano 2b
Posada DH/C
Swisher RF
Granderson CF
Backup C (believe Cervelli will be traded)
I'd rather have Gardner in CF and Granderson in LF. Better for the team that way, but I do agree Gardner should leadoff. Some of his infield hits would be outs with guys on base-(force out at second for example) and with Jeter behind him he should have more motivation to steal second so Jeter doesn't GIDP.
Prob time for him to hit up the order for an extended period of time.
Who do you bump down though? I think it should be Granderson but if he's actually doing pretty well vs. righties and still has more history of success than Gardner.
Swisher is having one hell of a season, Jeter, Teix, and ARod are all slowly heating up. Cano and (to a lesser extent) Posada are both pretty hot.
I am sure Girardi would love to move Gardner up. He just doesn't know who he can move down.
b_joseph
07-04-10, 02:59 PM
Who do you bump down though? I think it should be Granderson but if he's actually doing pretty well vs. righties and still has more history of success than Gardner.
Swisher is having one hell of a season, Jeter, Teix, and ARod are all slowly heating up. Cano and (to a lesser extent) Posada are both pretty hot.
I am sure Girardi would love to move Gardner up. He just doesn't know who he can move down.I'd have Swish behind Cano and Gardy in the 2 spot.
Gardner is having the best season he is ever likely to have. For a team that struggles for scoring consistency, him being at the top could really help.
parkerstrong
07-04-10, 03:27 PM
I'd rather have Gardner in CF and Granderson in LF. Better for the team that way, but I do agree Gardner should leadoff. Some of his infield hits would be outs with guys on base-(force out at second for example) and with Jeter behind him he should have more motivation to steal second so Jeter doesn't GIDP.
Just looked it up that Gardner is hitting .357 with nobody on base and .271 with guys on base-some of his hits turn into outs with guys on base. He should be a leadoff hitter.
Gardner split stats
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=29174
ArodEra
07-04-10, 05:33 PM
The dude is the real deal and I'm loving every moment of it.
Michael Dorbuck
07-04-10, 06:29 PM
Gardner has been great for the Yankees this year is every aspect of the game. It is evident that Cashman was very high on him basicly giving him the starting left field position entering spring training.But it is too bad Cashman just didn't plan on Gardner being the starting center fielder and try to figure out something else for left field instead of trading for Curtis Granderson.
Gardner has been great for the Yankees this year is every aspect of the game. It is evident that Cashman was very high on him basicly giving him the starting left field position entering spring training.But it is too bad Cashman just didn't plan on Gardner being the starting center fielder and try to figure out something else for left field instead of trading for Curtis Granderson.
and, of course, if Gardner bombed, you'd blame Cashman for that too. there's no winning with yuo
GordonGecko
07-05-10, 08:01 AM
Gardner is having the best season he is ever likely to have. For a team that struggles for scoring consistency, him being at the top could really help.
What'll be your next excuse after he bats like this again next year?
He currently has a higher OPS than A-Rod -- .836 vs. .835
He currently has a higher OPS than A-Rod -- .836 vs. .835
wowsah, are pigs flying yet ???!!!
There is just way too much data suggesting Brett Gardner is for real from the ridiculous number of pitches taken, % foul, % contact of anything in the strike zone, 2 strike BAs, abnormally high number of balls opposite field, and whatever subjective observation you want to make.
They all say the same thing: Brett Gardner is for real.
That said, even though I actually do believe he's a .350BABIP hitter (historically high btw, Ichiro! level) he's sitting at over .360 so shave like 20 or 30 points off his OPS.
That still makes him ridiculously good at league minimum. He also chugs Red Bull like water in the dugout... think he could get paid to drink with the labels showing?
Red Bull gives me wings. Red Bull fuels my jets. Take that homerun catch from last week and CGI some wings on him.
They all say the same thing: Brett Gardner is for real.
yeah, this certainly seems to be the case. he's really done an amazing job so far.
Yankee Mike
07-05-10, 08:42 PM
I'm a huge fan of Brett's. I hope he continues at this pace. He's turned out to be a solid hitter and his defense is awesome. Steals bases and runs fast as anything.
sweet_lou_14
07-05-10, 09:02 PM
Girardi has put Gardner in the leadoff spot tonight, with Jeter batting #2.
I'm sweet_lou_14 and I approve this lineup.
Girardi has put Gardner in the leadoff spot tonight, with Jeter batting #2.
I'm sweet_lou_14 and I approve this lineup.
Hopefully this is a sign of things to come, at least against righties.
Gardner has been struggling all year with runners on 1st and 2nd (and to a lesser extent runner on 2nd). I think it's because he can't default to slapping to opposite field and try to beat it out (a lot of those become foul balls.)
If he plugs this last hole in his game... he can become a perennial all star.
Good thing he won't have that problem much batting leadoff. Just kind of flukey bottom of the lineup got on base today.
jesterno2
07-06-10, 12:30 AM
i don't know, i think i prefer him at the bottom of the lineup wreaking havoc and creating circularity and RBI chances for the top of the order. does anyone have his splits for batting in the 7-8-9 spots as opposed to 1-2? seems like he has been much more effective at the bottom (probably SSS for the top...)
he does have bad splits but, as you would expect, SSS
b_joseph
07-06-10, 04:19 AM
What'll be your next excuse after he bats like this again next year?Whoa, you make it sound like I am being negative about him and I am being anything but negative.
All I am saying is that the odds are that he will not be able to hit better than this, so you have to take advantage of it. If he performs like this for the next few years then praise the lord, we'll have one of the best leadoff hitters in the sport.
b_joseph
07-06-10, 04:20 AM
i don't know, i think i prefer him at the bottom of the lineup wreaking havoc and creating circularity and RBI chances for the top of the order. does anyone have his splits for batting in the 7-8-9 spots as opposed to 1-2? seems like he has been much more effective at the bottom (probably SSS for the top...)Like Cano back in the day and how he struggled in the RBI slots. At some point, good perfomers who are young, have to get a chance to hit up the order.
Girardi has put Gardner in the leadoff spot tonight, with Jeter batting #2.
I'm sweet_lou_14 and I approve this lineup.
this makes sense w brett raging and jeter scuffling.
PS my guess is this is just a temporary shake-up, we'll see.
Girardi has put Gardner in the leadoff spot tonight, with Jeter batting #2.
I'm sweet_lou_14 and I approve this lineup.
Girardi said its because Posada is out and he wanted to move Swisher into that spot in the lineup.
Hopefully this is a sign of things to come, at least against righties.
good call >> http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2010/07/06/pregame-notes-gardner-might-stick-in-the-lead-off-spot
PS brett leads off tonite.
The real translation is Gardner has been so much better at leading off than Jeter Girardi just can't ignore it anymore.
I like how it seems like every time Gardner starts in CF, he makes a play that makes you say "Granderson probably doesn't that". His theft of Crisp's gapper in the 1st was excellence
It won't happen this year but if (yes, I love Gardner but it's still an if) Gardner keeps this up he'll probably take the starting CF job from Granderson.
If I remember right ... the original reason why Gardner didn't get the CF job out of ST is Girardi didn't want Grandy moving back and forth between CF and LF with the platoon of Gardner/Thames.
Gardner is now an everyday player ... that concern is gone.
Yankee Tripper
07-08-10, 10:53 AM
It won't happen this year but if (yes, I love Gardner but it's still an if) Gardner keeps this up he'll probably take the starting CF job from Granderson.
Why would Granderson lose his CF job this year? He's 2nd among MLB CF with +17 UZR/150 this year.
parkerstrong
07-08-10, 11:49 AM
Why would Granderson lose his CF job this year? He's 2nd among MLB CF with +17 UZR/150 this year.
What is Gardner's rating? UZR is a small sample size in 80 games-from what I have seen I think Gardner is a better defender.
ZIM 2002
07-08-10, 12:05 PM
I agree Gardner seems a better defender, and right now at least it appears Gardner is more an every day player than Granderson. Some of Gardner's hits remind me of a young Johnny Damon, tho without the power.
Yankee Tripper
07-08-10, 12:06 PM
What is Gardner's rating? UZR is a small sample size in 80 games-from what I have seen I think Gardner is a better defender.
Most of garnder is from LF but I think he is +8.3 UZR/150 there.
Granderson hasn't played LF since the minors, if they move granderson in a trade, yeah gardner is the CF no doubt but right now there is zero incentive to move a plus defnder off his natural position to try him out in LF when gardner has already made a successful transition to LF.
Now next year if they want an open competition for CF/LF if they are both here I'd have no problem with that but this year is just seems dumb to me.
Granderson has +4.9 UZR in 495 innings all CF and +17 UZR/150
Gardner has +0.8 UZR in 641 innings in OF (+1.7 in 396 LF & -0.9 CF in 245) and +3.6 UZR/150 (+8.3 LF & -3.1 CF)
I said it won't happen this year but it's a matter of time if Girardi really plays Granderson like the platoon player he is.
Brett Gardner isn't havnig a good defensive year but almost all of the minus can be traced back to the game where he airmailed the ball into the dugout.
parkerstrong
07-08-10, 09:26 PM
Gardner with a HUGE play to get Ichiro in the first inning.....saved at least 1 run
jesterno2
07-08-10, 10:35 PM
wow, looks like Vargas is owning him though. bad matchup?
roblyo33
07-09-10, 12:20 AM
Gardner with a HUGE play to get Ichiro in the first inning.....saved at least 1 run
Ichiro (hot) dogging in to 2nd aided GGBG's throw to 3rd. Nice play by Brett, but Ichiro hot dogged himself in to an out.
Needs to plug some holes... namely the high and away (or middle of the plate) pitches on two strikes when he guesses wrong. His swing just doesn't cover that part of the zone right now.
Also when there is man on second, he struggles a bit with breaking balls inside. Usually it doesn't matter because he lets most of those drop in for balls anyway but if he gets behind in the count he has trouble hitting them, if located well.
teknetic
07-16-10, 11:58 PM
Clutch walks.
I love him, he's been at the front of virtually every rally the last week or so. The SB total is pretty low, but he usually takes a good 3-4 pitches to take off, which is practically impossible with Jeter behind him.
Michael Dorbuck
07-17-10, 12:31 AM
Clutch walks.
I love him, he's been at the front of virtually every rally the last week or so. The SB total is pretty low, but he usually takes a good 3-4 pitches to take off, which is practically impossible with Jeter behind him.
Gardy has not been aggresive enough on the basepaths in recent weeks. Some of it may have to do with him being thrown out a few times recently. But also Jeter may be part of the problem. He doesn't take any pitches at all to give Gardner a chance to steal. I am starting to think they may have to think about batting Gardner second if Jeter is leading off. If Gardner is batting ninth, Jeter is following him in the leadoff spot. And if you lead off Gardner and bat Jeter second, you have the same problem with Jeter following Gardner. I honestly think Gardner should bat second and Swisher sixth to protect Cano and take better advantage of his ability to produce runs.
But I love the way Gardner works counts. He usually sees a ton of pitches and is great at fouling off pitches to keep alive at bats. That at bat in the ninth tonight to work a walk after being down 0-2 was typical Gardner. I read a stat a couple of weeks ago where Gardner was number 1 in baseball in average pitches seen per at bat. That is an amazing stat as far as I am concerned.
I am really hoping Gardner develops a bit of power (not HR power, just LD power) on pitches outside. Since he started pulling this year on pitches inside pitchers have been going breaking ball in (the pitchers that can locate that anyway) and fastball away thinking even if he hits they won't go far.
They are, so far, right. And Gardner's stats with RISP are showing.
And, oh, high fastballs (short, scrappy, bald, dirty, and can't hit the high fastball. He really is Pedroia+speed-power). Not always, but when umps have a relatively high strike zone he just can't cover the top part of the zone.
I have every confidence he'll work with Long to cover those holes next year even if not this year.
roblyo33
07-17-10, 12:08 PM
When was the last time he stole or, even attempted to steal, a base??
Slioman
07-17-10, 12:31 PM
When was the last time he stole or, even attempted to steal, a base??
Attempt: Jul 10
Success: Jul 7
roblyo33
07-17-10, 12:42 PM
Attempt: Jul 10
Success: Jul 7
Thanks.
Clutch walks.
I love him, he's been at the front of virtually every rally the last week or so. The SB total is pretty low, but he usually takes a good 3-4 pitches to take off, which is practically impossible with Jeter behind him.
He just has such a reputation for being fast pitchers are throwing to first a ridiculous amount and I think he could use some more experience reading pitchers.
teknetic
07-17-10, 02:35 PM
.383/.472/.533/1.006 in June
He had back-to-back .900+ OPS months in May-June of last year. He's good at baseball.
PirateChief
07-17-10, 02:40 PM
His at bat last night was just amazing. Guy is ridiculous.
murpjf88
07-17-10, 02:43 PM
How nice it could have been to have Crawford in Left and Gardner in Center next year.
How nice it could have been to have Crawford in Left and Gardner in Center next year.
Crawford is a good player, but I wouldn't pay him what he is going to get.
ElDandy
07-17-10, 03:03 PM
Loving what we've gotten out of Gardner thus far. When Granderson finally gets it in gear, we're going to have a solid outfield.
TheBamTino24
07-18-10, 09:40 AM
Loving what we've gotten out of Gardner thus far. When Granderson finally gets it in gear, we're going to have a solid outfield.
Agreed. I never thought Gardner would be this good. Everyone knew he had some beneficial skills - namely speed - but the fundamental question was whether or not he'd actually be able to get on base consistently enough. Enter his team-leading .398 OBP in 280 AB. He has an impressive iso-OBP of 91, and is averaging 4.6 P/PA. He makes Johnny Damon look like a rifle man in the OF though, but still, he's been great. Fits in great with the Yankees' offensive approach.
The debates about Gardner vs. Melky Cabrera seem like an eternity ago. The Humble Pie tastes good in this case. Gardner's been remarkable.
Agreed. I never thought Gardner would be this good. Everyone knew he had some beneficial skills - namely speed - but the fundamental question was whether or not he'd actually be able to get on base consistently enough. Enter his team-leading .398 OBP in 280 AB. He has an impressive iso-OBP of 91, and is averaging 4.6 P/PA. He makes Johnny Damon look like a rifle man in the OF though, but still, he's been great. Fits in great with the Yankees' offensive approach.
The debates about Gardner vs. Melky Cabrera seem like an eternity ago. The Humble Pie tastes good in this case. Gardner's been remarkable.
Me too. I never thought he could have a season like the one he's had. So far. The "so far" indicates a certain amount of residual skepticism in me.
BronxBaumer
07-18-10, 09:56 AM
Gardner + Swisher = amazingly cheap corner outfield spots for the production we're getting.
im getting a #11 on my Taiwanese softballteam uniform
parkerstrong
07-19-10, 05:20 AM
Agreed. I never thought Gardner would be this good. Everyone knew he had some beneficial skills - namely speed - but the fundamental question was whether or not he'd actually be able to get on base consistently enough. Enter his team-leading .398 OBP in 280 AB. He has an impressive iso-OBP of 91, and is averaging 4.6 P/PA. He makes Johnny Damon look like a rifle man in the OF though, but still, he's been great. Fits in great with the Yankees' offensive approach.
The debates about Gardner vs. Melky Cabrera seem like an eternity ago. The Humble Pie tastes good in this case. Gardner's been remarkable.
Gardner has a better arm than Damon.
^please please don't cite ARM stats. Please.
flymick24
07-20-10, 12:47 AM
garnder has a 98 NOODLE factor... damon a 150
parkerstrong
07-20-10, 05:53 AM
garnder has a 98 NOODLE factor... damon a 150
I agree-while Gardner doesnt have a great arm, he is better than Damon.
^please please don't cite ARM stats. Please.
It's a modern disease. They can't help it.
BRNXBMRS
07-21-10, 02:47 PM
That was B.S.!!!
DontHateOnNumber2
07-21-10, 02:50 PM
That was B.S. but Colin Curtis made it alllllll better!
BRNXBMRS
07-21-10, 02:51 PM
You just cant predict baseball, amazing. I have never seen that before.
TheHugeUnit2
07-21-10, 02:51 PM
That was B.S. but Colin Curtis made it alllllll better!
Yep, love Gardner but I've been a fan of Curtis for a while too wouldn't mind seeing him get some more time.
THEBOSS84
07-21-10, 02:53 PM
Gardner takes one for the team. What an unselfish player we have here.
That was B.S.!!!
That's what happens when you are not a loveable fat Guy.
roblyo33
07-21-10, 06:59 PM
GGBG is becoming very annoying. No pop in his bat and, when he does get on, he goes nowhere. What happened to his "elite" speed??
You do realize you are talking about the guy with the highest OBP in our regular lineup?
In wOBA he's behind Robbie, Swisher, and Posada but ahead of Teix (barely), ARod, Jeter, and Granderson.
Yes, he doesn't have much pop and he still has holes in his swing. But at this point, knocking on Gardner just being blatantly ignorant of Gardner's strengths.
Saying he goes nowhere is kind of silly too. He scores lots of runs despite batting right in front of the ice cold Jeter. In fact, Tex, Jeter, and Swisher are the only ones that score at a higher rate than Gardner once they got on base. For good reason too, if they get on base they got ARod and Cano. If Gardner gets on base, he gets Jeter and Swisher, big gap there (even though Swisher is mad hot). He's obviously not stealing as much as he used to (needs to learn pitcher moves) but he's legged out more than a few runs running from second and even first.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/750/32241594.png
roblyo33
07-21-10, 08:23 PM
You do realize you are talking about the guy with the highest OBP in our regular lineup?
In wOBA he's behind Robbie, Swisher, and Posada but ahead of Teix (barely), ARod, Jeter, and Granderson.
Yes, he doesn't have much pop and he still has holes in his swing. But at this point, knocking on Gardner just being blatantly ignorant of Gardner's strengths.
Saying he goes nowhere is kind of silly too. He scores lots of runs despite batting right in front of the ice cold Jeter. In fact, Tex, Jeter, and Swisher are the only ones that score at a higher rate than Gardner once they got on base. For good reason too, if they get on base they got ARod and Cano. If Gardner gets on base, he gets Jeter and Swisher, big gap there (even though Swisher is mad hot). He's obviously not stealing as much as he used to (needs to learn pitcher moves) but he's legged out more than a few runs running from second and even first.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/750/32241594.png
I understand all this but, I still don't think he his using his biggest asset, speed, as much as he could/should. When he gets on base, he should be running, IMO, especially with DJ in the slump that he has been in. I would prefer him to take chances with the SB when Jeter is up to avoid the DP.
I understand all this but, I still don't think he his using his biggest asset, speed, as much as he could/should. When he gets on base, he should be running, IMO, especially with DJ in the slump that he has been in. I would prefer him to take chances with the SB when Jeter is up to avoid the DP.
He still has to pick his spots. I dont care how bad Jeters slumping you still dont want to risk giving away outs on the basepaths with the top of the lineup coming up.
He still has to pick his spots. I dont care how bad Jeters slumping you still dont want to risk giving away outs on the basepaths with the top of the lineup coming up.
This. And Gardner obviously needs to study pitcher and catcher moves better. That will come with experience but there has been more than one facepalm moments when he ran himself into an out.
He's faster than Crawford (I think) but not as good a base stealer, yet.
Overall wOBA rankings for the Yankees:
Javier Vazquez: .470 (over lol 5PAs with .667BA)
Cano: .401 (10th in MLB, 1st among 2Bs)
Swisher: .394
Posada: .376
Thames: .372
Gardner: .371 (20th among MLB OFs. 19th is Torii Hunter at .372, Suzuki cooled off recently and crashed to .342)
Teix: .362
ARod: .361
NDLJ: .331
Jeter: .321 (still 8th among all MLB SS)
There is no way you can possibly say Gardner isn't having a wildly successful season beyond all but the wildest expectations.
sweet_lou_14
07-21-10, 08:57 PM
I understand all this but, I still don't think he his using his biggest asset, speed, as much as he could/should. When he gets on base, he should be running, IMO, especially with DJ in the slump that he has been in. I would prefer him to take chances with the SB when Jeter is up to avoid the DP.
Please don't take this as a major criticism -- Gardner's doing a great job -- but I have to agree, he doesn't attempt to steal anywhere near as often as I would expect him to. With little to back this up except what my eyes tell me, I get the sense that despite his speed he is not particularly good at reading pitchers' pickoff moves. He doesn't get picked off, but he regularly gets taken out of his game and fails to make the steal attempt.
Please don't take this as a major criticism -- Gardner's doing a great job -- but I have to agree, he doesn't attempt to steal anywhere near as often as I would expect him to. With little to back this up except what my eyes tell me, I get the sense that despite his speed he is not particularly good at reading pitchers' pickoff moves. He doesn't get picked off, but he regularly gets taken out of his game and fails to make the steal attempt.
Yeap. I agree with this. But this is exactly what answers Roblyo's criticism that Gardner doesn't use his speed as much as he should.
He ran at will earlier in the year. But with pitchers and catchers constantly trying to pick him off now, he's gotten, justifiably, much more conservative.
Staying put > getting thrown out. I totally agree he needs to plug that part of his game but that can only come with experience and Gardner has proved to be a relatively slow learner over time.
You just cant predict baseball, amazing. I have never seen that before.
postgame they showed a clip from last yr vs twins at the stadium when damon got tossed and brett came in and hit an inside the park HR down the left field line ......... but today was much more dramatic. pretty wacky, gardner involved in both !!
LazyEyeLou
07-22-10, 07:55 AM
What did Brett do yesterday to get tossed? I was at the game, so missed all analysis...seemed like he must have said something that set the ump off...
parkerstrong
07-22-10, 08:50 AM
What did Brett do yesterday to get tossed? I was at the game, so missed all analysis...seemed like he must have said something that set the ump off...
It didnt seem justified and Gardner refused to give any details-he just stated this is his first ejection of his life.
NelsonMuntz
07-22-10, 10:42 AM
What did Brett do yesterday to get tossed? I was at the game, so missed all analysis...seemed like he must have said something that set the ump off...
You can't argue balls and strikes. The pitch really didn't look that bad either. If you are going to argue a strike at least wait until it's the 3rd strike. Nothing good is going to come from arguing with an umpire in the middle of an at bat.
NelsonMuntz
07-22-10, 10:44 AM
Please don't take this as a major criticism -- Gardner's doing a great job -- but I have to agree, he doesn't attempt to steal anywhere near as often as I would expect him to. With little to back this up except what my eyes tell me, I get the sense that despite his speed he is not particularly good at reading pitchers' pickoff moves. He doesn't get picked off, but he regularly gets taken out of his game and fails to make the steal attempt.
I completely agree. Let me be the first to say that Brett is exceeding my expectations this year. He is the furthest thing from our biggest problem right now. That being said, he should be stealing more bases.
What did Brett do yesterday to get tossed? I was at the game, so missed all analysis...seemed like he must have said something that set the ump off...
it looked like brett just questioned the call, nothing dramatic. on YES, ken singleton said a player has the right to talk to the ump, and o'neill called the quick hook (especially after girardi the nite before -- same ump too i think) "a load of bullcrap". via lohud:
• Until today, Brett Gardner had never been ejected from a game in his life. “I’d rather not talk about it,” he said. “It’s over and done with.” Girardi didn’t say much more, but he said the decision to toss Gardner left him “scratching my head.”
ThePinStripes
07-22-10, 12:48 PM
Please don't take this as a major criticism -- Gardner's doing a great job -- but I have to agree, he doesn't attempt to steal anywhere near as often as I would expect him to. With little to back this up except what my eyes tell me, I get the sense that despite his speed he is not particularly good at reading pitchers' pickoff moves. He doesn't get picked off, but he regularly gets taken out of his game and fails to make the steal attempt.
I think he's not good at it because he's never really had to be good at it.
35Knucklecurve
07-22-10, 12:54 PM
I was watching the clip of Gardner's ejection on http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12476438&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
and it was mentioned that Girardi has had "enough of this crew" (also had problems in the Toronto series). There seem to be a lot more umps these days who think they are beyond questioning. Players used to be able to have a conversation about a ball or strike call - nothing animated or very critical. I can't recall who it was last year (on another team), but all he did was ask the ump, "did that catch the corner?" and he was tossed.
Anyway, it worked out this time. ;)
I just think asking Gardner to steal more now is putting the cart before the horse.
He's been picked off a few times recently as pitchers and catchers have become more aware of his presence. He needs to learn something, as TPS suggested, that he never had to learn before.
Give him some time, he's too fast to not bag a few SBs soon. Just don't expect the high rate from first half of the season till next year after he really gets some time to do his homework.
I am thinking 10~15 bags or so rest of the way to clock in at 36~41 for the season. That's pretty damn good.
sweet_lou_14
07-22-10, 04:41 PM
I think he's not good at it because he's never really had to be good at it.
How about now ... does he have to be good at it now?
TheBamTino24
07-22-10, 07:53 PM
Gardner just threw out Billy Butler at the plate in tonight's game. I think it was the best throw I've ever seen him make; he was on target, and one hop on a line to Posada at the plate.
I've always thought Gardner's whole mechanics of throwing were very odd. He seems overly stiff and uncomfortable when throwing, literally like a tin man making segmented movements to come completely over the top.
On a side note, I didn't realize Gardner led MLB in P/PA. That's a ridiculously good stat and an important skill for a player that should mature into a leadoff hitter in due time. Combine that with his ability to get on base (+96 OBP) and his ability to seal bases (26/32) and you have the ingredients for a great lead off hitter.
I gotta eat a lot of Humble Pie here. I was never a big fan of Gardner or high on his potential. But he's making me a believer.
In the two weeks in May in which Gardner was the Yanks’ primary second-place hitter, he struggled as badly as at any point this year. Was that a small sample or symbolic that he is not yet ready to handle such a prominent spot.
Hitting coach Kevin Long compared that Robinson Cano was not ready to be a primary No. 5 hitter two years ago, but maturity and experience allowed him to be ideal for the role this year. He sees the same profile for Gardner; that time will enable Gardner to become a strong top-of-the-rotation force.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/up_jeter_joba_and_montero_lyvFVxju5feEHmDZBC0fvL
NYYenigma
07-22-10, 08:01 PM
The throw home to get Butler was great but his throw in the first inning to get Betemit at second was very nice too. From left field corner he hit 2nd base on a fly which saved a run by getting him out.
PirateChief
07-22-10, 08:10 PM
How can he really steal when Jeter sees like 1 pitch per at bat?
parkerstrong
07-23-10, 07:19 AM
Agreed. I never thought Gardner would be this good. Everyone knew he had some beneficial skills - namely speed - but the fundamental question was whether or not he'd actually be able to get on base consistently enough. Enter his team-leading .398 OBP in 280 AB. He has an impressive iso-OBP of 91, and is averaging 4.6 P/PA. He makes Johnny Damon look like a rifle man in the OF though, but still, he's been great. Fits in great with the Yankees' offensive approach.
The debates about Gardner vs. Melky Cabrera seem like an eternity ago. The Humble Pie tastes good in this case. Gardner's been remarkable.
Hope you watched yesterdays game.....while Gardner is far from Ichiro, his arm is much better than Damon.
Gardner worked on his throwing in the offseason I am sure.
His arm still isn't very strong but his throws, the airmail to the dugout at the beginning of the season notwithstanding, have been much more accurate than last year.
His routes in the outfield have improved too.
These are things that make me so excited about Gardner going forward. He just keeps getting better even if it takes him some time.
Kevin Long says he has untapped power so I expect Gardner to hit more line drives next year.
Gardner, probably for the first time ever, actually has to read the pitchers' pickoff moves to be successful at SBs. I expect him to get better at that too next year.
Gardner's been great, but there are obvious areas where he can still improve. It's pretty crazy.
Gardner worked on his throwing in the offseason I am sure.
this would not surprise me at all. swisher improved his OF D greatly starting w second half last yr, and did alot of work w eiland to improve his throwing accuracy. (swish had a great swisherian quote to the effect of, hey man, if you want to learn how to throw better, who better than someone who deals with every day ??!!) ....... back to brett, those were two very solid throws last nite, dead-on accurate, but they also had some mustard on them.
Michael Dorbuck
07-23-10, 02:05 PM
this would not surprise me at all. swisher improved his OF D greatly starting w second half last yr, and did alot of work w eiland to improve his throwing accuracy. (swish had a great swisherian quote to the effect of, hey man, if you want to learn how to throw better, who better than someone who deals with every day ??!!) ....... back to brett, those were two very solid throws last nite, dead-on accurate, but they also had some mustard on them.
I'm with you. Gardner was knocked a lot in the past for his arm. He doesn't have the arm for right field but it is plenty good enough for center field or left. I would describe his arm as average but pretty accurate. Players feel they can challenge it and run on it but he made them pay twice last night. People talk about him like he has a Damon like arm and that certainly isn't the case.
Yankee Tripper
07-23-10, 02:08 PM
I'm with you. Gardner was knocked a lot in the past for his arm. He doesn't have the arm for right field but it is plenty good enough for center field or left. I would describe his arm as average but pretty accurate. Players feel they can challenge it and run on it but he made them pay twice last night. People talk about him like he has a Damon like arm and that certainly isn't the case.His arm reminds me a bit of a younger Barry Bonds, accurate but weak.
He's had a great season but he's been slumping at the plate the past month, be nice to see him get back to where he was earlier in teh season at the plate.
People talk about him like he has a Damon like arm and that certainly isn't the case.
yeah, no way, brett has a much better arm. and as grizy noted above, it looks like he's making progress in this area.
Michael Dorbuck
07-23-10, 02:14 PM
[quote=Yankee Tripper]His arm reminds me a bit of a younger Barry Bonds, accurate but weak.
He's had a great season but he's been slumping at the plate the past month, be nice to see him get back to where he was earlier in teh season at the plate.[/quote
He quietly has gone into a bit of a tailspin at the plate but people haven't really noticed it probably because the Yankees have been winning. His approach at the plate is fine. He still is working pitchers and making them throw a lot of pitches. If he continues doing what he has been doing, hopefully the hits will start falling again soon and his average will climb once again over .300.
Yankee Tripper
07-23-10, 02:17 PM
He quietly has gone into a bit of a tailspin at the plate but people haven't really noticed it probably because the Yankees have been winning. His approach at the plate is fine. He still is working pitchers and making them throw a lot of pitches. If he continues doing what he has been doing, hopefully the hits will start falling again soon and his average will climb once again over .300.
I was surpirsed to see that he's hitting just .212 with only 3 SB the past month.
The good thing though is he's still seeing a lot of pitches and still drawing walks as evidenced by the .358 OBP over the same period.
And I agree, his approach has been good, the results just haven't been there of late.
Michael Dorbuck
07-23-10, 02:22 PM
I was surpirsed to see that he's hitting just .212 with only 3 SB the past month.
The good thing though is he's still seeing a lot of pitches and still drawing walks as evidenced by the .358 OBP over the same period.
And I agree, his approach has been good, the results just haven't been there of late.
Even being in a slump, he still has been maintaining a decent OBP during that time. He still has to become more aggresive on the basepaths when he gets on. He seems more tentative as far as stealing bases than he was earlier in the season.
I was surpirsed to see that he's hitting just .212 with only 3 SB the past month.
The good thing though is he's still seeing a lot of pitches and still drawing walks as evidenced by the .358 OBP over the same period.
And I agree, his approach has been good, the results just haven't been there of late.
Man, every time he gets cold for a while he just... yeah. lol.
2-4 with a BB... best part is that one of his hits was on a ball high and away with Granderson on 2nd, which is the worst part of his strike zone coverage right now. I am very excitedly hoping it's a sign he worked out something with Kevin Long and plugged a pretty glaring hole in his swing.
Michael Dorbuck
07-23-10, 10:18 PM
Man, every time he gets cold for a while he just... yeah. lol.
2-4 with a BB... best part is that one of his hits was on a ball high and away with Granderson on 2nd, which is the worst part of his strike zone coverage right now. I am very excitedly hoping it's a sign he worked out something with Kevin Long and plugged a pretty glaring hole in his swing.
I really like Gardner batting in the leadoff spot. He does everything you are looking for in a leadoff hitter, takes pitches, work counts, has long at bats and steals bases.
Btw, Joe Mauer just caught up to Gardner in the HR department.
Granted Gardner legged out two of his homers, but it still boggles my mind.
NYYenigma
07-23-10, 11:11 PM
good night for gardy...i like him in the leadoff spot too. btw he only legged out one of his homeruns this year, 4 of 5 were legit.
Even being in a slump, he still has been maintaining a decent OBP during that time. He still has to become more aggresive on the basepaths when he gets on. He seems more tentative as far as stealing bases than he was earlier in the season.
more than decent. better than carl crawford and johnny damon's career OBPs
NelsonMuntz
07-24-10, 11:40 AM
Who goes to the hospital for acid reflux?
roblyo33
07-24-10, 11:48 AM
Who goes to the hospital for acid reflux?
Professional athletes.
NelsonMuntz
07-24-10, 12:23 PM
Professional athletes.
Apparently so.
christ pop a zantac and get to it
Gardner was about due for a day off anything. This isn't that big of a deal.
Gardner with another assist, getting the third out at home. Well done, kid.
THEBOSS84
07-27-10, 06:20 PM
The second time he's done that in the last 3-4 game.
Yankees13
07-27-10, 06:25 PM
He has a great LF's arm. Not very strong, but very accurate, that was his 8th assist of the year I believe.
He has a great LF's arm. Not very strong, but very accurate, that was his 8th assist of the year I believe.
the two bright spots in the game for me last nite were brett's throw to the plate in the first and his hit in the 9th. after some early miscues, his arm has been surprisingly good -- very accurate, and some mustard as well. IMO it looks better than it did last yr.
I recall his throwing from his rookie days in Staten Island. His throwing motion seemed like it had a lot of extra movement back then, almost like he needed to windup & generate some extra energy to get a good throw off. No more. His recent throws, highlighted many times on YES, all look sharp, little if any wasted motion, and very accurate. I would say he is at least slightly above average for a LF, throwing-wise. At least.
I agree with the poster before. He does not have a RF arm at all. But more than enough for LF. I am very impressed.
....... His recent throws, highlighted many times on YES, all look sharp, little if any wasted motion, and very accurate.
it looks like he has a more over-the-top motion now. one by one, the holes in his game are disappearing. very awesome !!
roblyo33
07-28-10, 01:42 PM
I think his speed paid as many dividends as his arm on that play, last night. He charged the ball so quickly and had his momentum moving towards the plate which really helped.
StatenIslandYankee
07-28-10, 07:51 PM
Gardner has way surpassed any expectations I had for him ... and then-some.
He has a great LF's arm. Not very strong, but very accurate, that was his 8th assist of the year I believe.I remember battling with the Melky cult about Gardner's arm. It wasn't as strong as Melky's, but took much less time to load and was much more accurate.
His arm plays very well in LF.
I remember battling with the Melky cult about Gardner's arm.
aha, i was probably one of the offenders. it looks to me like gardner has (significantly) improved his throwing this yr in terms of strength/velocity. do you see a difference ??
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-29-10, 05:38 AM
Crazy that he is one of the best players on the team.
Crazy that he is one of the best players on the team.
Crazier that he still hasn't reached his ceiling.
I think he'll steal more bases as he learns to read pitchers better.
And Kevin Long thinks Gardner has untapped power.
Meanwhile, Brett Gardner's .390OBP is good for 4th on NYY, behind Javy's .667, Greg Golson's .400, and Thames' .398.
His 4.59P/PA is also MLB leading (Ortiz No. 2 at 4.43, second highest on team if Nick Swisher at 4.00)
I was a little indifferent a couple weeks ago... but the more I look into it, the more I am convinced Gardner should bat leadoff, at least vs. RHP starters.
Make it happen.
it looks like he has a more over-the-top motion now. one by one, the holes in his game are disappearing. very awesome !!
Could be. I don't remember his exact throwing motion from the SI days, but you might have it there.
ZIM 2002
07-29-10, 10:10 AM
He seems to be a player who is very able to keep learning, improving what needs to be improved, and making the most of the abilities he has even if they are not the abilities of an elite player.
Sixty one
07-29-10, 10:19 AM
He seems to be a player who is very able to keep learning, improving what needs to be improved, and making the most of the abilities he has even if they are not the abilities of an elite player.
I agree. He still takes too many pitches and needs to become a better bunter. If he learns this skill, bunting, I think his overall average will improve dramatically. Remember his bunts can simply turn into doubles with his speed and skill for stealing bases. He should study films of Jackie Robinson who had the skill of disrupting pitchers and see if he could be the same type of runner.
aha, i was probably one of the offenders. it looks to me like gardner has (significantly) improved his throwing this yr in terms of strength/velocity. do you see a difference ??It's possible, but I haven't observed a noticeable difference. He made similar throws last year. I think folks were just enamored with the rockets Melky was firing, regardless of the fact that they generally didn't go where they needed to, and kind of overlooked the fact that Gardner gets rid of the ball quicker and generally is more accurate than Melky.
As much heat Cashman gets for "letting" Damon move on and gambling on a guy like Johnson, he gets zero credit for putting his trust in a cost-controlled Gardner who is providing tremendous offense, defense and baserunning and allowed us to invest in other needs for the club.
Kudos to Gardner. If you go back and read the offseason posts here, I think there were one or two posters that were VERY optimistic about Gardner's capabilities relative to the majority... and he has exceeded even those lofty goals. He's becoming one of my favorite players to watch and root for.
I agree. He still takes too many pitches and needs to become a better bunter. If he learns this skill, bunting, I think his overall average will improve dramatically. Remember his bunts can simply turn into doubles with his speed and skill for stealing bases. He should study films of Jackie Robinson who had the skill of disrupting pitchers and see if he could be the same type of runner.It would be great if he could tap into his speed and bunt for more basehits, but I strongly disagree that he's taking too many pitches - and offer his .390 OBP as supporting evidence.
It would be great if he could tap into his speed and bunt for more basehits, but I strongly disagree that he's taking too many pitches - and offer his .390 OBP as supporting evidence.Agreed. His PPA is 4.59! That's basically among the elite for that stat.
He still takes too many pitches and needs to become a better bunter.yep, he needs to take the jeter approach and ground out to 2nd on the 2nd pitch.
Phinstripes
07-29-10, 10:50 AM
It's funny - there are people that I will watch a game with and say Gardner should be bunting more and it's like an automatic hit. Have these people seen him bunt? It's such a misconception with him.
roblyo33
07-29-10, 12:54 PM
It's funny - there are people that I will watch a game with and say Gardner should be bunting more and it's like an automatic hit. Have these people seen him bunt? It's such a misconception with him.
If he does learn to bunt better it should bring the 3rd baseman closer, and that will only open up more holes for him to slap through. IMO, better bunting will make him a much more dangerous player.
TEPLimey
07-29-10, 01:04 PM
I'm in the group that has to eat crow about Gardner. I will admit that I was wrong and am very pleased with Brett's production.
it looks like he has a more over-the-top motion now. one by one, the holes in his game are disappearing. very awesome !!
Good point. He's definitely a very coach-able player.
YESSIR!
07-29-10, 09:30 PM
1 for 1 with 3 BB, 2 runs scored and a stolen base. Pretty nice game there. It's almost August and this guy has done nothing but exceed expectations (at least mine, by a ton) all year long. If anything, the only knock I could possibly muster is that he should probably have at least 5-10 more SB's considering how much he's been on base this year. Props to Gardner for a hell of a 2010 through 101 games.
flymick24
07-29-10, 09:33 PM
is he officially a fixture in the lineup?
Gardner still needs to plug holes... get some of that untapped power Long talked about, learn pitcher's moves, steal more bases, and of course just keep doing everything he's already doing right.
That will make him a better player than Carl Crawford, if he isn't already.
All star next year, and he won't need a Send Gardy campaign.
bmxstreetrider86
07-29-10, 11:30 PM
Brett Gardner has a higher ops than travis halfner
Why he isn't legitimately mentioned amongst the best and most valuable properties in baseball is almost a travesty. If he was in cf all year he might be one of the top players in the AL
Foot-in-mouth. I was totally wrong about this guy. Happy he's a Yank.
Brett Gardner has a higher ops than travis halfner
Why he isn't legitimately mentioned amongst the best and most valuable properties in baseball is almost a travesty. If he was in cf all year he might be one of the top players in the AL
It's because he doesn't hit for power... and like Babe Ruth said, people pay to see HRs.
get some roids for this guy so he does then.
jesterno2
07-30-10, 12:46 AM
Brett Gardner has a higher ops than travis halfner
Why he isn't legitimately mentioned amongst the best and most valuable properties in baseball is almost a travesty. If he was in cf all year he might be one of the top players in the AL
actually one of the espn writers, i think caple(?) wrote about how valuable he is in one of his articles last week. starting 9 about guys who just do little things and help create wins?
It's possible, but I haven't observed a noticeable difference. He made similar throws last year. I think folks were just enamored with the rockets Melky was firing, regardless of the fact that they generally didn't go where they needed to, and kind of overlooked the fact that Gardner gets rid of the ball quicker and generally is more accurate than Melky.
As much heat Cashman gets for "letting" Damon move on and gambling on a guy like Johnson, he gets zero credit for putting his trust in a cost-controlled Gardner who is providing tremendous offense, defense and baserunning and allowed us to invest in other needs for the club.
Kudos to Gardner. If you go back and read the offseason posts here, I think there were one or two posters that were VERY optimistic about Gardner's capabilities relative to the majority... and he has exceeded even those lofty goals. He's becoming one of my favorite players to watch and root for.
I'm wearing my Gardner t-shirt right now, thanks. ;)
But yes, you're right, he has exceeded even my expectations. Seriously... 300 BA and 400 OBP... Just wow. I would've been ecstatic with a .270/.370.
WELLLLLLL my foot isn't in my mouth. I've been a Gardner fan since he was in A ball. He always had a habit of slowly adjust to each level in the minors, it was only a matter of time before he found his place in the majors.
PirateChief
07-30-10, 05:47 AM
actually one of the espn writers, i think caple(?) wrote about how valuable he is in one of his articles last week. starting 9 about guys who just do little things and help create wins?
I think that might be underselling gardner as a typical gritty scrappy player. He has a near .400 OBP. That's a BIG thing to help the team win. He's invaluable. He's going to be a 4+ win player. He's nearly doubling Jeter by WAR. Who predicted that?
parkerstrong
07-30-10, 07:02 AM
I have been waiting to see hom drop off in production.....and gladly it hasnt come yet! Glad he is our CF of the future.
b_joseph
07-30-10, 08:05 AM
The best thing is that the league is already adjusted to him. Its not like this is his rookie year..he had 375 AB's before this season so thats a decent enough sampling to understand what a player can and cant do.
So I'd imagine this is him for the next few years. maybe not the 400 OBP but definitely above 370-ish. Leadoff hitter from next season.
TheStraw
07-30-10, 10:04 AM
I am getting really sick of seeing his name mentioned in trade rumors, "selling high", etc. This may just be a breakout season. Let's not be hasty and trade a guy who may be on his way to playing at at least an all star, if not an elite level.
teknetic
07-30-10, 10:33 AM
He's basically Carl Crawford without the power, but a better OBP. Pretty awesome.
if you do manage to get a good deal by trading him, go for it provided that you sign crawford in the off season.
although you are assuredly going to take a large hit to the current season performance, and set you up for low leverage bidding on crawford.
not going to happen.
I'm wearing my Gardner t-shirt right now, thanks. ;)
But yes, you're right, he has exceeded even my expectations. Seriously... 300 BA and 400 OBP... Just wow. I would've been ecstatic with a .270/.370.Yep, you were one of the guys I was referring to. I was an advocate as well, but not quite as confident. If memory serves I was thinking .360 OBP.
Remember when folks were upset when Melky got traded and Gardner didn't? Good times.
ChrisNY
07-30-10, 11:51 AM
I have to admit he has blown any expectations I had out of the water (and I'm a pretty optimistic person). All the preseason worry about our LFer has been completely silenced and then some. Who would have though he would put up numbers like this. He's cheap, a great hitter, amazing defender, and he adds the speed element for the yankees. Go to be the best breakout we've seen (next to Hughes and in part Swisher). I don't know about one of the best in the AL, but he's as valuable as an All-star. There isn't much you can complain about. He could run a little more, maybe hit for a little more power, but if we get production close to this from now on from him we should all be ecstatic. What a great guy to have, pray they don't trade him.
ZIM 2002
07-30-10, 11:56 AM
Girardi had said he liked Gardner partly because of his ability to hit lefties. That is a big help in Gardner's numbers - wish he could teach it to Granderson!
b_joseph
07-30-10, 11:58 AM
I am getting really sick of seeing his name mentioned in trade rumors, "selling high", etc. This may just be a breakout season. Let's not be hasty and trade a guy who may be on his way to playing at at least an all star, if not an elite level.I am with you there. The issue is that when do you sell on a player if that player could be on his way to being a star?
Do you only sell if you have an replacement ready in the minors? but even then, that player may not be as good as the guy you have there already.
Not that I want to trade him that is.
who is suggesting trading brett ??!! that would be nuts !!!
if we go after crawford -- still a big IF assuming we go after lee + hal budget -- i would rather put brett in CF and trade granderson. but if granderson plays like this the rest of the yr, just save the cash and get more pitching, wigginton or equivalent to upgrade utility, and call it a day. i'm assuming colin curtis or other internal fix will be ready for 4th OFer.
Yankeegrrrl77
07-30-10, 01:00 PM
I have always believed in Brett Gardner. I think I'd rather gamble on this being a breakout year than package him in a deal.
Trading Brett Gardner at this point is really dumb.
Gardner's OBP, backed up by a ridiculous MLB leading 4.59P/PA, is 50 points higher than Crawford's career averages (35 points higher than 2010) That alone should compensate for most of the loss in SLG compared to Crawford's numbers.
Now add a few things...
Gardner can play CF while Crawford will (even though he probably can) not.
Gardner still only gets league minimum in 2011.
Gardner has shown improvements every year he's played professional baseball, specifically on tap for 2011
----Gardner will steal more bases next year as he learns how to read pitchers.
----Gardner has untapped power according to Kevin Long.
I'll take Brett Gardner over Carl Crawford thank you very much.
If we want to trade an OF to make room for Crawford, Curtis Granderson the super platoon CF should be the one to go, along with his 31.25 million over 3 years (or 20.25 over 2.)
Trading Brett Gardner at this point is really dumb.
Gardner's OBP, backed up by a ridiculous MLB leading 4.59P/PA, is 50 points higher than Crawford's career averages (35 points higher than 2010) That alone should compensate for most of the loss in SLG compared to Crawford's numbers.
Now add a few things...
Gardner can play CF while Crawford will (even though he probably can) not.
Gardner still only gets league minimum in 2011.
Gardner has shown improvements every year he's played professional baseball, specifically on tap for 2011
----Gardner will steal more bases next year as he learns how to read pitchers.
----Gardner has untapped power according to Kevin Long.
I'll take Brett Gardner over Carl Crawford thank you very much.
If we want to trade an OF to make room for Crawford, Curtis Granderson the super platoon CF should be the one to go, along with his 31.25 million over 3 years (or 20.25 over 2.)yes, he's been very valuable. but in a market that value is also there for other teams. the dumb thing is simply not having a replacement for him in the season. but an off-season trade, certainly an adventurous and aggressive move, isn't impossible.
bomber999
07-30-10, 07:26 PM
yes, he's been very valuable. but in a market that value is also there for other teams. the dumb thing is simply not having a replacement for him in the season. but an off-season trade, certainly an adventurous and aggressive move, isn't impossible.
I never thought I'd say this, but I actually think that BG is more valuable to this team than Crawford would be, when you factor in what he brings to the game, and the relative cost. If we could have both next year (i.e. if we could move Grandy), then I think an OF of Crawford (LF), Gardner (CF), and Swisher (RF) would be the strongest.
yes, he's been very valuable. but in a market that value is also there for other teams. the dumb thing is simply not having a replacement for him in the season. but an off-season trade, certainly an adventurous and aggressive move, isn't impossible.
I am saying straight up, if you tell me to pick between Crawford and Gardner now, I'd take Gardner.
His OBP right now is .397, good for No. 12 in all of MLB (and No. 1 on the Yankees) among batters with 200PAs or more.
Even if Crawford comes at league minimum like Gardner, I am not sure I'd pick him over Gardner.
Actually, if Crawford came at minimum I'd just keep Gardner and flip Crawford for someone.
themgmt
07-31-10, 07:43 AM
Name 10 qualifying players in all of baseball with a higher OBP.
Can't, only 6 of them. Crazy.
themgmt
07-31-10, 07:48 AM
They should really put him in CF everyday and put Granderson in LF. Start Granderson vs RHP and half the time vs LHP (starting Berkman/Kearns/Thames). He has an .873 OPS vs RHP this year and .940 over the previous three seasons. If you cut his PA's vs LHP in half, he'd be an .850+ OPS player and he'd still start 130 games that way, and can come in for defense, or pinch running in the other games. Hope they do it next year.
Kluivert4Ever
07-31-10, 09:25 AM
They should really put him in CF everyday and put Granderson in LF. Start Granderson vs RHP and half the time vs LHP (starting Berkman/Kearns/Thames). He has an .873 OPS vs RHP this year and .940 over the previous three seasons. If you cut his PA's vs LHP in half, he'd be an .850+ OPS player and he'd still start 130 games that way, and can come in for defense, or pinch running in the other games. Hope they do it next year.
Thats what they should do I agree, but damn 10 million for a platoon player, thats why the trade didnt make any sense.
StatenIslandYankee
07-31-10, 03:35 PM
mmm This crow sandwich is tasting pretty good. I shall finish it off with some crow pie.
BRNXBMRS
08-02-10, 07:46 AM
So no that Kearns is here is Gardner going to be the loser in all of this for his playing time? I hope the Yanks dont ruin him.
justtxyank
08-02-10, 08:54 AM
So no that Kearns is here is Gardner going to be the loser in all of this for his playing time? I hope the Yanks dont ruin him.
I really really really really really doubt it. Girardi loves him some Gardy. I think Brett just got a day off to rest before this brutal stretch.
I was bearish on Gardner and am thrilled to be wrong. At this point it makes no sense to keep Granderson in CF with Gardner in left. Just put him out there in CF and platoon Kearns and Granderson.
ZIM 2002
08-02-10, 10:43 AM
I think Gardner is going to play CF only when Granderson isn't playing - Girardi isn't going to make Granderson play LF at this point and platoon him as well.
BRNXBMRS
08-02-10, 11:18 AM
I really really really really really doubt it. Girardi loves him some Gardy. I think Brett just got a day off to rest before this brutal stretch.
I was bearish on Gardner and am thrilled to be wrong. At this point it makes no sense to keep Granderson in CF with Gardner in left. Just put him out there in CF and platoon Kearns and Granderson.
I have no problems with that.
I never thought I'd say this, but I actually think that BG is more valuable to this team than Crawford would be, when you factor in what he brings to the game, and the relative cost. If we could have both next year (i.e. if we could move Grandy), then I think an OF of Crawford (LF), Gardner (CF), and Swisher (RF) would be the strongest.
problem is gardner's distribution of performance is wider than crawford's. track record counts for smoething, and gardner has only had 1 year at this level.
I am saying straight up, if you tell me to pick between Crawford and Gardner now, I'd take Gardner.
His OBP right now is .397, good for No. 12 in all of MLB (and No. 1 on the Yankees) among batters with 200PAs or more.
Even if Crawford comes at league minimum like Gardner, I am not sure I'd pick him over Gardner.
Actually, if Crawford came at minimum I'd just keep Gardner and flip Crawford for someone.
that's fine. it would just be a gamble.
but this scenario of "you can only have 1!" isn't reflective of reality. the reality is that crawford is a premium talent at a position that won't have a lot of those coming into market.
ChrisNY
08-02-10, 11:32 AM
So no that Kearns is here is Gardner going to be the loser in all of this for his playing time? I hope the Yanks dont ruin him.
Yeah there's no way Gardner shouldn't be playing almost every day, if he's going to platoon Kearns let it be with Granderson.
i think girardi's main problem here is actually cashman's problem. if you move to Curtis to LF AND he sucks offensively, his value drops like a rock. If we keep him in CF, Cashman can still trade him for something good...
BRNXBMRS
08-03-10, 07:42 AM
I guess Gardners days of hitting in a tight situation are over. The Yanks are going to ruin him!
BRNXBMRS
08-03-10, 07:43 AM
i think girardi's main problem here is actually cashman's problem. if you move to Curtis to LF AND he sucks offensively, his value drops like a rock. If we keep him in CF, Cashman can still trade him for something good...
Trade Granderson or Gardner?
No point moving Granderson now. Save that for next season if we're going to do it at all.
if they move one of them, it will be in the off season.
I guess Gardners days of hitting in a tight situation are over. The Yanks are going to ruin him!
I'm guessing this was a one-time thing where Girardi was trying to grab an XBH from Kearns. I don't think you will see Gardner PH for often in games. Granderson, yes. But not so much Gardner.
ZIM 2002
08-03-10, 11:04 AM
Interesting that Girardi pinch hit Thames yesterday for Granderson then moved Gardner to CF and had Thames play LF, when he could just have pinch hit Thames for Gardner and left Granderson in CF. If Granderson's stock falls below Gardner, it sure would be hard to trade him.
JavyVazquezIsSick
08-03-10, 11:10 AM
The majority of Granderson's value comes from the fact he plays CF. If you have a CFer who is a better offensive player, it makes a lot more sense to trade Granderson, and get a corner OFer with a better bat. Putting a CFer in LF is counterproductive.
Plan A/ paging kevin long, paging kevin long
Plan B/ crawford LF brett CF swish RF
4th OF colin curtis or filli in the blank
Plan C/ see Plan B
BRNXBMRS
08-03-10, 11:44 AM
I'm guessing this was a one-time thing where Girardi was trying to grab an XBH from Kearns. I don't think you will see Gardner PH for often in games. Granderson, yes. But not so much Gardner.
I hope so, Gardner is starting to blossum.
roblyo33
08-03-10, 01:58 PM
FWIW, he has struck out 5 times in his last 7 AB's. He has to get more aggressive at the plate, IMO. Looking at too many strikes right down the middle.
Hellsing
08-03-10, 02:08 PM
FWIW, he has struck out 5 times in his last 7 AB's. He has to get more aggressive at the plate, IMO. Looking at too many strikes right down the middle.
Hide the women and children.
Sixty one
08-06-10, 10:34 AM
FWIW, he has struck out 5 times in his last 7 AB's. He has to get more aggressive at the plate, IMO. Looking at too many strikes right down the middle.
This is what bothers me about Gardner. I would think that Long would have been able to get Gardner to be more aggressive at the plate and not take so many pitches.....especially first pitch strikes right down the middle of the plate! Hopefully, his approach will be different with Boston in town today.
...you guys are complaining about gardner taking too many pitches?
let him apprentice with jeter so he can learn how to ground out in 2 pitches or less.
roblyo33
08-06-10, 11:13 AM
...you guys are complaining about gardner taking too many pitches?
No, I am not complaining at all. His K rate is 28% higher than Jeter's. He should be more agressive, IMO.
he's not going to do a lot of damage if he puts balls into play. might as well take the walk.
Yankees13
08-06-10, 12:14 PM
Gardner swinging early in the count would be seriously counterproductive. His patience is what separates him from the Joey Gathrights of the world.
Sixty one
08-06-10, 03:49 PM
Gardner swinging early in the count would be seriously counterproductive. His patience is what separates him from the Joey Gathrights of the world. Right now pitchers know that he hasn't been swinging at first pitches and therefore, they throw the first pitch for a strike and Gardner starts in a hole. He needs to swing more often on the first pitch so that pitchers will begin to change their strategy with him.
Yankee Tripper
08-06-10, 04:22 PM
Gardner swinging early in the count would be seriously counterproductive. His patience is what separates him from the Joey Gathrights of the world.
^this. He's been slumping a bit the past 6 weeks, he just needs to adjust again. He'll be fine.
Brett Gardner doesn't swing at first pitch much (25 out of 378, 10 in play, 14 fouls, 1 whiff, yes, 1 whiff), but when he does, he can smash them.
Of the 10 in play, 6 were hits and 1 was a HR.
So, in short, I really don't see the problem here. He goes up there with a plan looking for something specific and forces the pitchers to make a pitch or... well, he can do some damage. Later in the count, he goes into contact mode and that's why he has such high OBP.
What you should actually worry about is this blatant hole in Gardner's swing that pitchers have apparently caught on to.
The high and away pitch, if they can place the pitches there, Gardner has a hard time putting any kind of charge into them which is a serious problem, especially with runners on base. Sometime after 2009 and before 2010, Gardner put in enough work to plug the inside vs. fastballs that just flat out beat him. Hopefully he'll work something out and start plugging that one last glaring hole in his swing high and away. He plugs that he could put up Ichrio!esque numbers with better OBP.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8012/strikezonephp.gif
For now, I am quite happy with this .290/.380/.400 speedster at the bottom of our lineup (though he should leadoff at least vs. RHPs)
NelsonMuntz
08-06-10, 08:34 PM
Gardner's reluctance to steal bases is starting to annoy me.
sweet_lou_14
08-06-10, 09:37 PM
Gardner's reluctance to steal bases is starting to annoy me.
He's very fast but he's actually (IMHO) a simply awful base stealer. He has none of the instincts of the great ones.
leads the league in P/PA, in 2-strike hits, and leads the team in OBP, and still... yankee fans find something to complain about.
NelsonMuntz
08-07-10, 08:26 AM
leads the league in P/PA, in 2-strike hits, and leads the team in OBP, and still... yankee fans find something to complain about.
Yeah, it's inconceivable that fans on a message board would comment on the fact that he's one of the fastest players in the league yet he struggles at stealing bases. We're so horrible.
His speed compensates for his lack of power. He needs to start using it.
teknetic
08-07-10, 09:36 AM
He's never struggled to steal bases, as shown by his very good SB%. He's probably not all that great at getting good reads, but his raw speed makes up for it. It also doesn't help that he's had Jeter hitting behind him most of the year.
AnA-bombforA-rod
08-07-10, 09:37 AM
Brett since June 22: .208/.344/.302.
Gardner's reluctance to steal bases is starting to annoy me.
His slump is starting to annoy me more.
teknetic
08-07-10, 04:26 PM
As opposed to it amusing you?
foul ball
08-07-10, 04:33 PM
He's a good ball player but not very smart. When is he going to realize that the pitchers have figured him out. Taking the first two pitches, everytime, all the time, is getting boring. He needs to get aggressive.
Sixty one
08-07-10, 06:56 PM
He's a good ball player but not very smart. When is he going to realize that the pitchers have figured him out. Taking the first two pitches, everytime, all the time, is getting boring. He needs to get aggressive.
I agree and have been saying this for a long time.
Time to give Kearns a game or two. Maybe sitting a couple games does him good :dunno::dunno:.
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