View Full Version : Kei Igawa 2009 Performance Thread
Mantle'sMutt
03-06-09, 01:31 AM
I didn't figure he had a chance to earn a 2009 thread, but he hasn't looked bad, so far. It would be great if he'd "find it" and stick as a middle/set-up guy - or at least pitch well enough to be acceptable as a trade inclusion.
At this point, his best hope for success in the majors is to be traded to an NL team and latch on as a back of the rotation guy. However, with the economy as it is, the yanks would have to swallow a lot of his salary.
I feel bad for Igawa. His skill set just didn't translate into U.S. baseball (while a career mediocre pitcher like Okajima got himself a ring) and now he's toiling in the minors.
effdamets
03-06-09, 10:14 AM
At this point, his best hope for success in the majors is to be traded to an NL team and latch on as a back of the rotation guy. However, with the economy as it is, the yanks would have to swallow a lot of his salary.
I feel bad for Igawa. His skill set just didn't translate into U.S. baseball (while a career mediocre pitcher like Okajima got himself a ring) and now he's toiling in the minors.
I highly doubt his skill set translates into a backyard wiffle ball game....
TheInfallibleOne
03-06-09, 10:17 AM
Can Dr Useless play 3B? i didnt think so...back to the minors!
what a waste of bandwidth
I didn't figure he had a chance to earn a 2009 thread, but he hasn't looked bad, so far. It would be great if he'd "find it" and stick as a middle/set-up guy - or at least pitch well enough to be acceptable as a trade inclusion.
If he'd "find it", I trade him for something valuable immediately.
Jglaubman
03-06-09, 11:21 AM
uhhhhh
SlowCheetah
03-06-09, 11:26 AM
If he'd "find it", I trade him for something valuable immediately.
A bag of balls and a valid bus pass
heyabbott
03-06-09, 12:43 PM
He's almost a dominant AAA pitcher. THat's an expensive player for S-WB
rudedog71
03-06-09, 01:10 PM
can you say 'little toad'?
heyabbott
03-06-09, 01:21 PM
can you say 'little toad'?
Don't blame Igawa, all he did was take the offer. What fat toad made him the offer?
rudedog71
03-06-09, 04:31 PM
Don't blame Igawa, all he did was take the offer. What fat toad made him the offer?
totally agree...but I thought the thread is on "Kei Igawa performance"....not "Yankee mgmt high-priced pitcher contract performance".
Besides, you do realize I was comparing the situation to a repeat of Hideki Irabu, right?
heyabbott
03-06-09, 05:17 PM
totally agree...but I thought the thread is on "Kei Igawa performance"....not "Yankee mgmt high-priced pitcher contract performance".
Besides, you do realize I was comparing the situation to a repeat of Hideki Irabu, right?
I got the reference. But Irabu had the body of Wells and the temperament of Ed Whitson. Igawa doesn't seem to be a bad guy
CallOfTheCrow
03-06-09, 05:19 PM
The comparison to Irabu makes no sense.
1) Irabu was a heralded Japanese pitcher, Igawa wasn't
2) Irabu actually produced (a little) for us, Igawa hasn't
3) They look nothing alike so "Little Toad" makes as much sense as calling Irabu a "Fat Johnny Depp"
Irabu was actually good then he got fatter and bad.
Igawa never was good...
He's still leaving pitches up in the zone and his mechanics still suck.
rudedog71
03-06-09, 05:54 PM
They were both from Japan and they were both overpaid.
My apologies if that's not enough of a comparison for some light humor on a Friday afternoon.
Maybe I should have said "skinny frog".
OklaYankeeFan
03-06-09, 06:20 PM
Even if he looked awesome his next few times out, I would still not hold out that it will last a season. I am not sure what they saw in him.
possibly the most surprising thread i've seen so far.
yankeeman61
03-07-09, 03:30 AM
I highly doubt his skill set translates into a backyard wiffle ball game....
:lol: I had a wicked whiffle ball slider no one could touch. That ball is an engineering marvel.
The comparison to Irabu makes no sense.
1) Irabu was a heralded Japanese pitcher, Igawa wasn't
2) Irabu actually produced (a little) for us, Igawa hasn't
3) They look nothing alike so "Little Toad" makes as much sense as calling Irabu a "Fat Johnny Depp"
i think igawa was heralded in japan. there wasn't so much media attention on him because matsuzaka was the hot commidity that winter.
CallOfTheCrow
03-07-09, 03:32 PM
i think igawa was heralded in japan. there wasn't so much media attention on him because matsuzaka was the hot commidity that winter.
Nah Cashman even came out & said not to expect a #1 starter out of Igawa. I believe he went so far as saying to expect a back of the rotation starter.
RogerYY
03-07-09, 10:40 PM
possibly the most surprising thread i've seen so far.
Right! I was looking for Chien Ming Wang's thread, but couldn't find it. Instead, I found this thread. I only came in out of curiosity.
Nah Cashman even came out & said not to expect a #1 starter out of Igawa. I believe he went so far as saying to expect a back of the rotation starter.
i didn't say they thought he'd be a number 1. i just said that there wasn't much attention on igawa cos everyone was focused on matsuzaka. igawa was highly thought of in japan however.
bigwampum
03-08-09, 01:34 PM
:lol: I had a wicked whiffle ball slider no one could touch. That ball is an engineering marvel.
After I figured out how to throw what was effectively a backwards curveball, I was unhittable.
After I figured out how to throw what was effectively a backwards curveball, I was unhittable.
don't you mean an upside down curve ball?
NelsonMuntz
03-10-09, 08:22 PM
Alright I'll say it ... Igawa looked sharp tonight (3/10/09).
Alright I'll say it ... Igawa looked sharp tonight (3/10/09).
Yeah, he looked good :(
JOE COOL
03-10-09, 09:51 PM
Kei Igawa 2009 Performance Thread, LOL! What performance? I don't know why Cashman didn't have the sense to trade him to San Diego when Kevin Powers was interested in him 2 years ago. Come to think of it, I don't know why Cashman is even the GM
Kei Igawa 2009 Performance Thread, LOL! What performance? I don't know why Cashman didn't have the sense to trade him to San Diego when Kevin Powers was interested in him 2 years ago. Come to think of it, I don't know why Cashman is even the GM
LOL JOE COOL LOL
Igawa has a 0.00 ERA in ST so far :eek:.
Is he going to try and make the case to be the Long Reliever? It's not that either Giese or Aceves have looked that great.
Rocketbooster
03-10-09, 10:09 PM
Igawa has a 0.00 ERA in ST so far :eek:.
Is he going to try and make the case to be the Long Reliever? It's not that either Giese or Aceves have looked that great.
Geise has looked ok the last two times and Aceves was very good last out. Igawa has no prayer for a spot on this team.
NYYRules#1
03-11-09, 01:12 AM
Here's the bullpen options I see, with 7 spots open (in no particular order): Rivera, Bruney, Coke, Marte, Albaladejo, Giese, Ramirez, Veras, Robertson, Aceves, Melancon, Igawa.
There is basically no chance in hell Igawa scratches that 7. Even with his ST performance, which probably isn't too far off from his AAA performance, I think all 11 of the other guys are ahead of him on the depth chart.
Geise has looked ok the last two times and Aceves was very good last out. Igawa has no prayer for a spot on this team.
we will only see him in the majors this year if we have a worse injury list than we did last year.
Doubleday
03-14-09, 02:48 PM
I can't say that I totally blame Igawa for his poor performance in the majors. If my memory is correct (and it's very possibly flawed), the Yankees signed Igawa as an answer to Boston acquiring Okajima. The Yanks felt that they needed to import an arm in order to stay competitive with Boston - and Igawa was essentially rushed through the system to get to the Bronx.
I bet that given enough time, he could be a solid arm for another ballclub (maybe not the Yankees though - a bad first impression is hard to erase.)
I can't say that I totally blame Igawa for his poor performance in the majors. If my memory is correct (and it's very possibly flawed), the Yankees signed Igawa as an answer to Boston acquiring Okajima. The Yanks felt that they needed to import an arm in order to stay competitive with Boston - and Igawa was essentially rushed through the system to get to the Bronx.
I bet that given enough time, he could be a solid arm for another ballclub (maybe not the Yankees though - a bad first impression is hard to erase.)
Igawa was supposed to be major league ready middle/back of the rotation guy.
He left so many fastballs up in the zone he couldn't even stick around for mop up duty.
DEADSOX
03-16-09, 11:55 AM
I'll always remember him for his relief apperance against Boston that one day.. For one day, he shone as a Yankee
smckdwn989
03-16-09, 12:30 PM
I'll always remember him for his relief apperance against Boston that one day.. For one day, he shone as a Yankee
i was at that game. karstens' leg was shattered. i was literally waiting for igawa to implode against boston. to everyone's shock, he did not.
Yankee Tripper
03-16-09, 12:46 PM
Here's the bullpen options I see, with 7 spots open (in no particular order): Rivera, Bruney, Coke, Marte, Albaladejo, Giese, Ramirez, Veras, Robertson, Aceves, Melancon, Igawa.
There is basically no chance in hell Igawa scratches that 7. Even with his ST performance, which probably isn't too far off from his AAA performance, I think all 11 of the other guys are ahead of him on the depth chart.
Probably right. I think his days in the bronx are done. But what can he do in ST/AAA where he might be attaractive to some other team, posibly in the NL, where the Yanks might get some minimal value in trade assuming they pay some or all of what Kei is owed?
kongull
03-16-09, 02:31 PM
Igawa continues his domination :P
YankeeStripes
03-16-09, 02:34 PM
Igawa will never pitch in the majors for the Yankees again, I'd bet my house on it.
Stache Fan
03-16-09, 02:38 PM
Igawa will never pitch in the majors for the Yankees again, I'd bet my house on it.
I'll take that bet. Where do you live?
Igawa will never pitch in the majors for the Yankees again, I'd bet my house on it.I wouldn't. I doubt he breaks camp with the team, but if he dominates at SWB the Yanks could bring him up if there were an injury or to try to showcase him against some lesser offensive-minded teams.
YESSIR!
03-16-09, 03:16 PM
I wouldn't. I doubt he breaks camp with the team, but if he dominates at SWB the Yanks could bring him up if there were an injury or to try to showcase him against some lesser offensive-minded teams.
Seriously. The guy pitched a full season of solid ball for SWB last year, and he's been ridiculous so far this Spring (0.00 ERA). If he keeps it up and there's a need, we just might see him again. If not, I'd be surprised if we couldn't unload him on a pitching hungry NL club.
primetime714
03-16-09, 04:06 PM
Seriously. The guy pitched a full season of solid ball for SWB last year, and he's been ridiculous so far this Spring (0.00 ERA). If he keeps it up and there's a need, we just might see him again. If not, I'd be surprised if we couldn't unload him on a pitching hungry NL club.
That's what we should be trying to do now. However I still think interest is minimal.
If room ever opens on the 40-man he might get a shot so that we could trade him, but it doesn't look like there will be many openings on the 40. Even a guy like Melancon will likely have a tough time cracking it right now which is why he is in minor league camp. Plus we need to make room for another INF while ARod is out, probably Berroa.
azzurribaggio
03-16-09, 04:10 PM
If I'm Igawa am I trying everything I can to make the team or just accepting the fact that I'm getting paid nicely for throwing batting practice.....BTW I was in camp last month and watched him throw live BP and his first pitch nailed Juan Miranda....I was like WTF!
roblyo33
03-16-09, 06:46 PM
If I'm Igawa am I trying everything I can to make the team or just accepting the fact that I'm getting paid nicely for throwing batting practice.....BTW I was in camp last month and watched him throw live BP and his first pitch nailed Juan Miranda....I was like WTF!
If what he has accomplished this spring is without trying, let him continue without trying!!
I know this is ST and it's only 11 innings but his ERA is 000 and BB/SO is low. I think he will be in Scanton. I don't know what he is doing differently but it seems to be working. I know Brian is his biggest supprter. Still feel Brian will trade him if something comes along because he is a lefty.
I wish him luck and hope he makes the pen.
Bucky
Just the name Kei Igawa proves two true facts:
** The Yankees should have made sure the right scouts saw Igawa pitch enough in Japan before deciding to spend their money so unfortunately. I've never really heard anyone come out and say how he was scouted and for how long.
** Spring training statistics often mean nothing when looking at the big picture.
There are some who think the Yanks don't want to bite the bullet and trade Igawa+about $9M, just to be rid of him. There are some who think he should just pitch for Scranton until his contract runs out in two (or three?)years. Personally, I think keeping him in Scranton admits the mistake that was made. IMO, if he can be moved and perhaps a couple of million dollars are saved, it should be done. I mean, didn't they release Quantrill and Karsay one year, eating their million dollar + salaries? Igawa is just taking up space.
Tyler Durden
03-16-09, 08:44 PM
I'm glad he's been pitching well, but let's not kid ourselves...
Kei Igawa has a LONG way to go before he can be considered anything more than a sunk cost to the Yanks at this point in time.
Just the name Kei Igawa proves two true facts:
** The Yankees should have made sure the right scouts saw Igawa pitch enough in Japan before deciding to spend their money so unfortunately. I've never really heard anyone come out and say how he was scouted and for how long.
** Spring training statistics often mean nothing when looking at the big picture.
There are some who think the Yanks don't want to bite the bullet and trade Igawa+about $9M, just to be rid of him. There are some who think he should just pitch for Scranton until his contract runs out in two (or three?)years. Personally, I think keeping him in Scranton admits the mistake that was made. IMO, if he can be moved and perhaps a couple of million dollars are saved, it should be done. I mean, didn't they release Quantrill and Karsay one year, eating their million dollar + salaries? Igawa is just taking up space.
I'll get in my go back machine and make a bigger offer for Dice K. It was a mistake with our scouting and the majority want to trade him. After the first year we knew he needed the minors. We won the governor cup last year (I think we lost the championship to Durham) and Igawa got a AAA pitcher of the year award. Maybe he is getting better. I wish I knew if he changed something.
I wish I knew if he changed something.
My guess is the only thing that changed is the level of the competition. Think about it - a typical AAA batting lineup might include maybe 3 or 4 guys (at best) that will end up in the big leagues for any considerable length of time. Out of those 3 or 4, maybe one of them becomes a really good hitter.
The odds are with Igawa in Scranton, but they obviously work against him in the majors. Too many average hitters that can still knock him right out of a ballgame.
All-in-all, his St performances have been shockingly excellent, so far. But it is St, and there really is not room on the roster for him. Do they remove Dunn or WDL, exposing them to waivers, to add Kei?
I think not,
I think he has a good chance of being the first back to back Scranton Wilkes Barre Yankees MVP.
primetime714
03-17-09, 08:45 AM
All-in-all, his St performances have been shockingly excellent, so far. But it is St, and there really is not room on the roster for him. Do they remove Dunn or WDL, exposing them to waivers, to add Kei?
I think not,
Definitely not. The 40-man roster is really his biggest obstacle to making it back with the team. Unfortunately this year we don't have guys that are expendable there. Anyone we released would be claimed there is really no doubt about that.
The guy closest to the chopping block on the 40-man is Giese, but coming off the year he had it would be tough to just let him go.
We do have to make room for another infielder while ARod is out. That guy will likely be Berroa. In order to make room we'd be wise to trade someone. I think the most likely candidates are Miranda, Claggett, Giese, Albaladejo, or Jackson. Or if we can get good value for a guy likely to make our bullpen such as Veras, Robertson, or Edwar that might make sense as well seeing as we have plenty of guys to take up their spot.
Personally I'd love to trade a couple relievers for a high ceiling positional player who wouldn't need to be added to the 40-man. I'm not talking an elite prospect because that's not going to happen, but someone who could perhaps crack our top 10.
Yankee Fan in Boston
03-17-09, 08:52 AM
Definitely not. The 40-man roster is really his biggest obstacle to making it back with the team. Unfortunately this year we don't have guys that are expendable there. Anyone we released would be claimed there is really no doubt about that.
The guy closest to the chopping block on the 40-man is Giese, but coming off the year he had it would be tough to just let him go.
We do have to make room for another infielder while ARod is out. That guy will likely be Berroa. In order to make room we'd be wise to trade someone. I think the most likely candidates are Miranda, Claggett, Giese, Albaladejo, or Jackson. Or if we can get good value for a guy likely to make our bullpen such as Veras, Robertson, or Edwar that might make sense as well seeing as we have plenty of guys to take up their spot.
Personally I'd love to trade a couple relievers for a high ceiling positional player who wouldn't need to be added to the 40-man. I'm not talking an elite prospect because that's not going to happen, but someone who could perhaps crack our top 10.
I agree, and I wouldn't be shocked to see a trade after Edwar provdes himself to be healthy. The team has done a good job stockpiling relievers; at some point some of those guys are going to be traded, whether it is now or at a trade deadline sometime. A solid middle infield prospect, who could eventually back up a few positions for us, would be nice.
primetime714
03-17-09, 09:06 AM
I agree, and I wouldn't be shocked to see a trade after Edwar provdes himself to be healthy. The team has done a good job stockpiling relievers; at some point some of those guys are going to be traded, whether it is now or at a trade deadline sometime. A solid middle infield prospect, who could eventually back up a few positions for us, would be nice.
Yea its pretty clear that not all of these bullpen guys have a future with this team. Its also clear that other than Mo pretty much everyone in our bullpen can be replaced from within the system. I think we should hold onto Mo, Coke, and Melancon for sure. Beyond those 3 guys though I'd have no problem trading anyone else in our bullpen if the right deal came along. And if the right deal doesn't come along I'd look to trade guys that we may have to release at somepoint anyway like Albaladejo, Giese, Clagett, or Jackson.
In addition to the bullpen guys I think Miranda is really expendable as well. Even if (God forbid)Teixeira goes down Swisher and not Miranda will take his spot at 1B. Miranda is a guy that could potentially platoon at 1B on a team like the Mariners. I think we could get some value back for him in a deal.
Igawa will never pitch in the majors for the Yankees again, I'd bet my house on it.
really? i have some of that action.
we signed sidney ponson twice! after that, anything can happen.
hellonewman
03-17-09, 04:21 PM
He is a pitching god. :-hide-:
He is a pitching god. :-hide-:
His future's so bright..........
Rocketbooster
03-17-09, 04:34 PM
I agree, and I wouldn't be shocked to see a trade after Edwar provdes himself to be healthy. The team has done a good job stockpiling relievers; at some point some of those guys are going to be traded, whether it is now or at a trade deadline sometime. A solid middle infield prospect, who could eventually back up a few positions for us, would be nice.
I don't think Robertson will be traded and I think the Claggetts, Jacksons, etc..of the world would be traded before Alabadejo. I think the Yanks like Alba quite a bit........
hellonewman
03-17-09, 07:40 PM
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/
UPDATE, 7:35 p.m.: Godzilla slapped a two-run double to right. 2-0 Yankees. … Forget to mention this before, but Girardi threw the name of one Kei Igawa into the long reliever mix.
Mwahahaha ....
I don't think Robertson will be traded and I think the Claggetts, Jacksons, etc..of the world would be traded before Alabadejo. I think the Yanks like Alba quite a bit........
This is the best pen for some time (remember Proctor - his arm is 10 in longer and with Florida now). Robertson and Alabadejo are great and trading either would be a mistake. Igawa will be in Scranton and if he does well I think Brian will give him another chance. We have him for 3 years (12M) and need to figure something out.
effdamets
03-18-09, 07:30 AM
This is the best pen for some time (remember Proctor - his arm is 10 in longer and with Florida now). Robertson and Alabadejo are great and trading either would be a mistake. Igawa will be in Scranton and if he does well I think Brian will give him another chance. We have him for 3 years (12M) and need to figure something out.
If Igawa sees any time whatsoever in the majors, the Yankees are in trouble because that means that all the good pitchers are hurt.
Yankee Fan in Boston
03-18-09, 08:36 AM
If Igawa sees any time whatsoever in the majors, the Yankees are in trouble because that means that all the good pitchers are hurt.
I am not so sure about that. After last year, the Yankees have repeatedly said that players are going to have to earn things this year -- spots aren't going to be handed out. If not for the 40 man roster issue, it wouldn't surprise me if Igawa got a call up if they need someone early (particularly a long reliever) and he continues to pitch effectively. I am not saying he'll succeed or stick, but it wouldn't shock me.
effdamets
03-18-09, 08:47 AM
I am not so sure about that. After last year, the Yankees have repeatedly said that players are going to have to earn things this year -- spots aren't going to be handed out. If not for the 40 man roster issue, it wouldn't surprise me if Igawa got a call up if they need someone early (particularly a long reliever) and he continues to pitch effectively. I am not saying he'll succeed or stick, but it wouldn't shock me.
How many times does Igawa need to fail on the major league level for anyone to see that he isn't a good pitcher at all?
If Igawa pitches in the majors this season, it is only because the they are scraping the bottom of the barrel while looking for innings.
OldYankeeFan
03-18-09, 08:48 AM
I am not so sure about that. After last year, the Yankees have repeatedly said that players are going to have to earn things this year -- spots aren't going to be handed out. If not for the 40 man roster issue, it wouldn't surprise me if Igawa got a call up if they need someone early (particularly a long reliever) and he continues to pitch effectively. I am not saying he'll succeed or stick, but it wouldn't shock me.
Wouldn't shock me either. I think we would all like to see him (and his contract) gone. But the only way to get any real interest from other teams is for him to actually get ML hitters out when it counts. If Igawa continues to pitch well through the end of ST (9 innings, 5 hits, 0 runs, 2 BB and 9 K to date) I wouldn't mind him in long relief in order to showcase him to hopefull get some interest in a trade.
primetime714
03-18-09, 09:10 AM
This is the best pen for some time (remember Proctor - his arm is 10 in longer and with Florida now). Robertson and Alabadejo are great and trading either would be a mistake. Igawa will be in Scranton and if he does well I think Brian will give him another chance. We have him for 3 years (12M) and need to figure something out.
We have more than enough depth to trade guys like Robertson and Albaladejo if a good trade comes along. I think at most only one of these two guys makes our opening day bullpen. If a good trade comes along for either of these guys I wouldn't mind parting with them especially Albaladejo who while a nice/versatile middle reliever doesn't really have late inning potential.
We also have no room and no flexibility on the 40-man roster to give someone not on there that might be deserving a shot with the big league club. I mean we don't even have room right now for a backup infielder with ARod out.
We need to make a trade. Whether it is a reliever or someone like Juan Miranda or both we need to give ourselves some flexibility on the 40-man so we don't end up having to cut someone good and get robbed in a trade for them or get nothing if teams just wait it out and claim that player. Right now I'm relatively certain there is not 1guy on our 40-man roster that if waived would not be claimed. Which meanes now is the time to make a trade as we will need spots on the 40-man roster very soon.
smckdwn989
03-18-09, 09:40 AM
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/
Mwahahaha ....
the good news is that the pitching is so deep that we might not ever see igawa ;)
freebubba
03-18-09, 10:31 AM
Could this "he has a shot at being the long reliever" business just be posturing to try and up whatever trade value he may have? I have to think that an NL team thin in the pitching dept. would be willing to pay some of his remaining salary. Hell, even if it's $1m/yr. it's better than paying him the fullboat to be AAA filler.
effdamets
03-18-09, 10:32 AM
Could this "he has a shot at being the long reliever" business just be posturing to try and up whatever trade value he may have? I have to think that an NL team thin in the pitching dept. would be willing to pay some of his remaining salary. Hell, even if it's $1m/yr. it's better than paying him the fullboat to be AAA filler.
The faster they get rid of that igit, the better off they will be.
i laugh everytime i see this thread but then i think i should cry at the waste.
primetime714
03-18-09, 01:35 PM
Could this "he has a shot at being the long reliever" business just be posturing to try and up whatever trade value he may have? I have to think that an NL team thin in the pitching dept. would be willing to pay some of his remaining salary. Hell, even if it's $1m/yr. it's better than paying him the fullboat to be AAA filler.
I think it was mostly to boost Igawa's confidence and give him something to play/strive for. Essentially this is Joe saying to Igawa and to the team that regardless of who you are if you perform and do what you're supposed to you will get a shot.
It also doesn't hurt his trade value to get his name out there in a positive way for once.
In reality though at this point any pitcher not currently on the 40-man roster won't make the team unless room opens up. Although that could obviously change quickly as Cash is going to have to make some moves there sometime soon to at least add another infielder.
stazsanity
03-18-09, 01:38 PM
I think it was mostly to boost Igawa's confidence and give him something to play/strive for. Essentially this is Joe saying to Igawa and to the team that regardless of who you are if you perform and do what you're supposed to you will get a shot.
It also doesn't hurt his trade value to get his name out there in a positive way for once.
In reality though at this point any pitcher not currently on the 40-man roster won't make the team unless room opens up. Although that could obviously change quickly as Cash is going to have to make some moves there sometime soon to at least add another infielder.
also- from a pride perspective- a guy you invested 40+ million in has to be regarded as an active member of a competition for a roster slot in mid-March when half of said roster is playing in the W.B.C.
OldYankeeFan
03-18-09, 02:19 PM
In reality though at this point any pitcher not currently on the 40-man roster won't make the team unless room opens up. Although that could obviously change quickly as Cash is going to have to make some moves there sometime soon to at least add another infielder.
Good point. I totally forgot Igawa isn't on the 40-man roster.
Rocketbooster
03-18-09, 04:59 PM
Wouldn't shock me either. I think we would all like to see him (and his contract) gone. But the only way to get any real interest from other teams is for him to actually get ML hitters out when it counts. If Igawa continues to pitch well through the end of ST (9 innings, 5 hits, 0 runs, 2 BB and 9 K to date) I wouldn't mind him in long relief in order to showcase him to hopefull get some interest in a trade.
I would absolutely mind Igawa in long-relief. I would at least like the long-man to give decent innings so that maybe the team can come back; Igawa would suck and, therefore, he wouldn't give us innings. No thanks - if the Yankees have to eat his contract, so be it. I want to win first - if it means Iggy has to pine away in Scranton, so be it.
PocketAces12
03-18-09, 08:43 PM
I would absolutely mind Igawa in long-relief. I would at least like the long-man to give decent innings so that maybe the team can come back; Igawa would suck and, therefore, he wouldn't give us innings. No thanks - if the Yankees have to eat his contract, so be it. I want to win first - if it means Iggy has to pine away in Scranton, so be it.
You don't think Igawa has a chance to turn around his game ever? Kinda harsh...
I know he hasn't done anything positive yet, but look at his history. We signed him and immediately made him our fifth starter in a league he's never pitched in. He promptly failed. We attempted to use him out of the bullpen, and he had mixed results. Then we let him stay in the minors and get the development time and coaching that almost every other major league pitcher gets and voila! he wins AAA pitcher of the year. He follows that up by coming to ST and pitching lights out.
I don't like the guy much either, but a baseball pitcher is the last athlete you ever want to say will never, ever be productive after a shaky start.
Rocketbooster
03-18-09, 09:58 PM
You don't think Igawa has a chance to turn around his game ever? Kinda harsh...
I know he hasn't done anything positive yet, but look at his history. We signed him and immediately made him our fifth starter in a league he's never pitched in. He promptly failed. We attempted to use him out of the bullpen, and he had mixed results. Then we let him stay in the minors and get the development time and coaching that almost every other major league pitcher gets and voila! he wins AAA pitcher of the year. He follows that up by coming to ST and pitching lights out.
I don't like the guy much either, but a baseball pitcher is the last athlete you ever want to say will never, ever be productive after a shaky start.
No, I don't. He's not a MLB -caliber pitcher, period.
You don't think Igawa has a chance to turn around his game ever? Kinda harsh...
I know he hasn't done anything positive yet, but look at his history. We signed him and immediately made him our fifth starter in a league he's never pitched in. He promptly failed. We attempted to use him out of the bullpen, and he had mixed results. Then we let him stay in the minors and get the development time and coaching that almost every other major league pitcher gets and voila! he wins AAA pitcher of the year. He follows that up by coming to ST and pitching lights out.
I don't like the guy much either, but a baseball pitcher is the last athlete you ever want to say will never, ever be productive after a shaky start.I agree. Not counting on anything out of Igawa, and as bad as he was last year I think he could pitch cost-effectively for an NL team if the Yankees pickup some of the contract.
PocketAces12
03-19-09, 01:30 AM
No, I don't. He's not a MLB -caliber pitcher, period.
Had no idea we had a pitching coach/Scout in our midst...
I find it hard to believe the Yankees dropped 46 mil on a guy that has no potential to be a MLB caliber pitcher, period.
also- from a pride perspective- a guy you invested 40+ million in has to be regarded as an active member of a competition for a roster slot in mid-March when half of said roster is playing in the W.B.C.
At the time Girardi made the comment that Igawa has a shot, almost no pitcher was away with the WBC.
Rocketbooster
03-19-09, 07:13 AM
Had no idea we had a pitching coach/Scout in our midst...
I find it hard to believe the Yankees dropped 46 mil on a guy that has no potential to be a MLB caliber pitcher, period.
So I can't have an opinion, but you can? If you didn't want an answer to your question, or if you intended to be obnoxious if you got an answer you didn't like, then maybe you shouldn't have asked the question.......
I don't care if you find it hard to believe or not that Igawa is not an MLB caliber-pitcher...You just keep the faith.
goin for 27
03-19-09, 08:31 AM
Had no idea we had a pitching coach/Scout in our midst...
I find it hard to believe the Yankees dropped 46 mil on a guy that has no potential to be a MLB caliber pitcher, period.
Does the name Drew Henson ring a bell?
It happens. Happens to every club, this one was just more costly.
effdamets
03-19-09, 09:04 AM
No, I don't. He's not a MLB -caliber pitcher, period.
Wow - your'e the coolest! :)
rudedog71
03-19-09, 09:19 AM
Not sure if this was mentioned already...but I'm glad he's doing well and getting the press coverage for it. This way Cash can trade him for somebody decent and the 46mil wont be a total loss.
effdamets
03-19-09, 09:47 AM
Not sure if this was mentioned already...but I'm glad he's doing well and getting the press coverage for it. This way Cash can trade him for somebody decent and the 46mil wont be a total loss.
My guess is that Cashman couldn't give him away!
Not then, not now.
Otherwise, he'd be outta there already.
The Yankees have ZERO use for him.
YESSIR!
03-19-09, 09:58 AM
So I can't have an opinion, but you can? If you didn't want an answer to your question, or if you intended to be obnoxious if you got an answer you didn't like, then maybe you shouldn't have asked the question.......
I don't care if you find it hard to believe or not that Igawa is not an MLB caliber-pitcher...You just keep the faith.
To be fair Rocket, the issue isn't your opinion, it's that you state it like it's absolute fact. Depending on your definition of "MLB caliber," I don't think it's fair to totally dismiss Igawa just yet. He's been pitching in the U.S. for a while now and he's slowly adapting his style to actually get decent results. If and when he does go to an NL club and continues to experience total failure at this level, it might be time for the official wrap. But not now when he's actually showing signs, however remote you feel they might be.
effdamets
03-19-09, 10:04 AM
To be fair Rocket, the issue isn't your opinion, it's that you state it like it's absolute fact. Depending on your definition of "MLB caliber," I don't think it's fair to totally dismiss Igawa just yet. He's been pitching in the U.S. for a while now and he's slowly adapting his style to actually get decent results. If and when he does go to an NL club and continues to experience total failure at this level, it might be time for the official wrap. But not now when he's actually showing signs, however remote you feel they might be.
Just going on the one example that sticks out in my mind....
Last spring, the Yankees played a game against Virginia Tech.
All the pitchers, even the struggling IPK and Phil Hughes managed to get outs without giving up any runs.
Igawa?
One inning 5 runs (I believe)..
He's not good.
YESSIR!
03-19-09, 10:37 AM
Just going on the one example that sticks out in my mind....
Last spring, the Yankees played a game against Virginia Tech.
All the pitchers, even the struggling IPK and Phil Hughes managed to get outs without giving up any runs.
Igawa?
One inning 5 runs (I believe)..
He's not good.
Then there's the game where he pitched very well against the Red Sox. Sure, there are more examples of him sucking, but that's not the point. The point is whether or not he can and will turn it around, and to what degree. Nobody is talking about the guy becoming a front-line starter, but suggesting he can be a back-end guy on a pitching-hungry NL team does not seem far-fetched, and simply saying that he's not good is not an argument to the contrary.
Rocketbooster
03-19-09, 10:41 AM
To be fair Rocket, the issue isn't your opinion, it's that you state it like it's absolute fact. Depending on your definition of "MLB caliber," I don't think it's fair to totally dismiss Igawa just yet. He's been pitching in the U.S. for a while now and he's slowly adapting his style to actually get decent results. If and when he does go to an NL club and continues to experience total failure at this level, it might be time for the official wrap. But not now when he's actually showing signs, however remote you feel they might be.
I'm not going to get into an argument about this - I really don't know how to respond to you. The poster asked for my opinion and I gave it. What do I need to do, qualify all of my comments with IMO?
If you think it's unfair to dismiss Igawa, then that's your opinion. I don't see why it's any more valid than mine....and please, it's not like I'm the first person to say that the guy is basically a AAAA pitcher.
Mr. Vegas
03-19-09, 11:01 AM
I think Igawa is probably good enough to be at least a regular 5th starter somewhere. To say he's not good enough to be a MLB pitcher is wrong, IMO. He may not be good enough to be a good MLB pitcher, and he's not good enough (we think) to pitch for the Yankees anytime soon, but he's good enough to be a middling 5th starter for a non-contending team.
The problem is obviously his contract. The NYY would have to basically pay someone to take him, so what's the incentive to unload him? He's not on the 40 man roster. He has no real value to the Yankees but neither do they have anything to gain by trading him, given that they will have to pay his salary regardless.
YESSIR!
03-19-09, 11:02 AM
I'm not going to get into an argument about this - I really don't know how to respond to you. The poster asked for my opinion and I gave it. What do I need to do, qualify all of my comments with IMO?
If you think it's unfair to dismiss Igawa, then that's your opinion. I don't see why it's any more valid than mine....and please, it's not like I'm the first person to say that the guy is basically a AAAA pitcher.
There's no reason to get defensive. You made a statment that reads as if it's fact -- "he's not a MLB-calibur pitcher, period." When you were taken to task about this assessment, you lashed out at the poster for berating you instead of actually explaining yourself. You should expect hyperbole to be met in kind.
And yes, many people would rather dismiss Igawa than allow for the possibility that he might actually succeed. I think it's precisely because of the mounting chorus against him that better discussion isn't had in this thread -- people are afraid to defend the guy in any capacity for fear of getting ridiculed as moronic. And that's unfortunate.
PocketAces12
03-19-09, 11:07 AM
So I can't have an opinion, but you can? If you didn't want an answer to your question, or if you intended to be obnoxious if you got an answer you didn't like, then maybe you shouldn't have asked the question.......
I don't care if you find it hard to believe or not that Igawa is not an MLB caliber-pitcher...You just keep the faith.
Didn't mean to come off obnoxious. It would be wise though if you work on your delivery of opinions because you state it as a fact. On a discussion board with strangers it's no biggie, but it can be a huge mistake in the real world. By adding the word "period" you change your opinion into a statement of fact.
I don't recall asking you a question at all... I countered your testament that he could never provide decent innings. If one thing sports, well life for that matter, has taught us is that we should never say never. By the way, saying never is another statement of fact...
PocketAces12
03-19-09, 11:10 AM
I'm not going to get into an argument about this - I really don't know how to respond to you. The poster asked for my opinion and I gave it. What do I need to do, qualify all of my comments with IMO?
If you think it's unfair to dismiss Igawa, then that's your opinion. I don't see why it's any more valid than mine....and please, it's not like I'm the first person to say that the guy is basically a AAAA pitcher.
Lol...I would love to see you interact with people on a day to day basis if this is how you act online. Your social ineptness would be amusing to witness in person...
primetime714
03-19-09, 11:16 AM
Then there's the game where he pitched very well against the Red Sox. Sure, there are more examples of him sucking, but that's not the point. The point is whether or not he can and will turn it around, and to what degree. Nobody is talking about the guy becoming a front-line starter, but suggesting he can be a back-end guy on a pitching-hungry NL team does not seem far-fetched, and simply saying that he's not good is not an argument to the contrary.
Ability wise his brief moments of success do show the potential to perform, but overall he doesn't have the mental makeup to handle the pressure. I think its feasible that he could be a back-end NL starter, but until he proves himself with us why would anyone take on much, if any salary to give him that chance? Can he prove that he is capable with the Yankees to the point where other teams might be relatively interested in trading for him? That's the real qustion. Personally I don't think so.
Also whenever hope seems to build for Igawa he is still an outing away from that hope completely diminishing. And that outing usually comes sooner rather than later. Its hard to have hope for a guy that has crushed any faith you had in him time and time again. Any faith in Igawa is more or less blind faith.
If he continues to perform well and room eventually opens on the 40-man roster I could live with giving him a shot as the long reliever in hopes of him doing well and allowing us to trade him. As a long reliever if the starter gets shelled his innings really only serve the purpose of protecting the rest of the bullpen. While there is still a good chance his innings could have an impact on the outcome of the game, its a lower risk position to put him in than if he were to start a game for us. That might bode well for him mentally too as there would be a lot less pressure and a lot less time to think/worry about things.
Still I'm not very confident that he would succeed in that role, so in order to earn that job he'd have to pitch quite well in the minors AND the alternatives would have to be quite weak for me to consider it a good idea.
YESSIR!
03-19-09, 11:43 AM
Ability wise his brief moments of success do show the potential to perform, but overall he doesn't have the mental makeup to handle the pressure. I think its feasible that he could be a back-end NL starter, but until he proves himself with us why would anyone take on much, if any salary to give him that chance? Can he prove that he is capable with the Yankees to the point where other teams might be relatively interested in trading for him? That's the real qustion. Personally I don't think so.
Also whenever hope seems to build for Igawa he is still an outing away from that hope completely diminishing. And that outing usually comes sooner rather than later. Its hard to have hope for a guy that has crushed any faith you had in him time and time again. Any faith in Igawa is more or less blind faith.
If he continues to perform well and room eventually opens on the 40-man roster I could live with giving him a shot as the long reliever in hopes of him doing well and allowing us to trade him. As a long reliever if the starter gets shelled his innings really only serve the purpose of protecting the rest of the bullpen. While there is still a good chance his innings could have an impact on the outcome of the game, its a lower risk position to put him in than if he were to start a game for us. That might bode well for him mentally too as there would be a lot less pressure and a lot less time to think/worry about things.
Still I'm not very confident that he would succeed in that role, so in order to earn that job he'd have to pitch quite well in the minors AND the alternatives would have to be quite weak for me to consider it a good idea.
I'm not sure his mental make-up is all that much of a conern -- I hadn't heard anything to that effect at least. Maybe in terms of making adjustments, which seems to have come slowly for him, Igawa has trouble correcting his own bad habits, but it does appear that progress has been made in terms of keeping the ball down and pitching to contact.
His salary is obviously a huge issue; indeed, other teams would be hard pressed to 'take a chance' on a guy that will cost $4mil, especially in the current economy. But as you rightly mentioned, if he impressed enough to log meaningful innings in NY at any point, and did well here, opinions might very well change.
There's a lot to look at with Kei. This is a guy who was successful in Japan only to come here and get rocked. He had to adjust his approach significantly in order to garner results. With a lot of work it appears that he has in fact made strides, ableit (perhaps) minor ones. He pitched a very solid 150+ innings for SWB last season, and he's carried that over to ST this year. That's something to build hope on, imo. If he can continue to keep the ball down and throw strikes, I could see his success carrying over to a long reliever role.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
PocketAces12
03-19-09, 11:54 AM
I'm not sure his mental make-up is all that much of a conern -- I hadn't heard anything to that effect at least. Maybe in terms of making adjustments, which seems to have come slowly for him, Igawa has trouble correcting his own bad habits, but it does appear that progress has been made in terms of keeping the ball down and pitching to contact.
His salary is obviously a huge issue; indeed, other teams would be hard pressed to 'take a chance' on a guy that will cost $4mil, especially in the current economy. But as you rightly mentioned, if he impressed enough to log meaningful innings in NY at any point, and did well here, opinions might very well change.
There's a lot to look at with Kei. This is a guy who was successful in Japan only to come here and get rocked. He had to adjust his approach significantly in order to garner results. With a lot of work it appears that he has in fact made strides, ableit (perhaps) minor ones. He pitched a very solid 150+ innings for SWB last season, and he's carried that over to ST this year. That's something to build hope on, imo. If he can continue to keep the ball down and throw strikes, I could see his success carrying over to a long reliever role.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Well said. Many people are overlooking how much success he had in Japan and I think many were led to believe that it would immediately translate to the majors. It didn't, but it is apparent that the coaches are working with him and improving facets of his game.
Another thing, everyone is so quick to discredit his work in the minors last year, and his dominance of Spring Training this year, but are able to tout how well Brett Gardner has performed in both these areas. While I believe that ST stats can be misleading, they can still show signs of improvement in a player, such as Igawa being able to locate the strike zone and keep pitches down.
Lol...I would love to see you interact with people on a day to day basis if this is how you act online. Your social ineptness would be amusing to witness in person...
excuse me, but you may consider rocketbooster to be socially inept but she's been a poster on this board for sometime and one who manages to interact quite amicably with others. she has also managed to refrain from making judgments about other posters in the way you have.
:)
Mr. Vegas
03-19-09, 12:37 PM
Also whenever hope seems to build for Igawa he is still an outing away from that hope completely diminishing. And that outing usually comes sooner rather than later. Its hard to have hope for a guy that has crushed any faith you had in him time and time again. Any faith in Igawa is more or less blind faith.
Not sure what the basis for all this is. In 2007, Igawa started the season in the rotation, made 5 starts, pitched to an ERA of 7.63, and then was lifted for about a month. He came back and pitched fairly regularly for about 5 weeks to an ERA of 5.97, then made one last start at the end of Sept., a scoreless outing of 5 innings.
In 2008, he only got into two games. The first was an abbreviated start where he got hit hard over 3.0 IP. The second was a scoreless one-inning relief outing a couple weeks later. So, 4 innings altogether.
That's the entirety of his career with the Yankees. No question he's pitched pretty badly. However, I don't see a pattern of him pitching brilliantly, building up expectations, then suddenly crashing back down to earth again, time after time after time. Moreover, to be fair, nobody HERE seems to have any particularly high expectations for Igawa. People are simply pointing out that, after a very successful year in AAA, Igawa is now having a terrific ST. I personally don't think Igawa is so bad that we should stop keeping track of how well or how poorly he is pitching.
Rocketbooster
03-19-09, 12:41 PM
excuse me, but you may consider rocketbooster to be socially inept but she's been a poster on this board for sometime and one who manages to interact quite amicably with others. she has also managed to refrain from making judgments about other posters in the way you have.
:)
Thanks ! Maybe that's why I like Alex- I recognize a socially inept pea in the pod!
It's just not worth getting into an argument about as I don't feel it necesssary to defend my personality/social skills on a message board...moving on to the next thread, lol.
TEPLimey
03-19-09, 12:57 PM
Not sure what the basis for all this is. In 2007, Igawa started the season in the rotation, made 5 starts, pitched to an ERA of 7.63, and then was lifted for about a month. He came back and pitched fairly regularly for about 5 weeks to an ERA of 5.97, then made one last start at the end of Sept., a scoreless outing of 5 innings.
In 2008, he only got into two games. The first was an abbreviated start where he got hit hard over 3.0 IP. The second was a scoreless one-inning relief outing a couple weeks later. So, 4 innings altogether.
That's the entirety of his career with the Yankees. No question he's pitched pretty badly. However, I don't see a pattern of him pitching brilliantly, building up expectations, then suddenly crashing back down to earth again, time after time after time. Moreover, to be fair, nobody HERE seems to have any particularly high expectations for Igawa. People are simply pointing out that, after a very successful year in AAA, Igawa is now having a terrific ST. I personally don't think Igawa is so bad that we should stop keeping track of how well or how poorly he is pitching.
This is one of the more well-reasoned posts I have seen lately.
There's no reason to get defensive. You made a statment that reads as if it's fact -- "he's not a MLB-calibur pitcher, period." When you were taken to task about this assessment, you lashed out at the poster for berating you instead of actually explaining yourself. You should expect hyperbole to be met in kind.
And yes, many people would rather dismiss Igawa than allow for the possibility that he might actually succeed. I think it's precisely because of the mounting chorus against him that better discussion isn't had in this thread -- people are afraid to defend the guy in any capacity for fear of getting ridiculed as moronic. And that's unfortunate.
We are talking about a guy that is so bad and is such an embarassment to the team that the guy who scouted him was fired. He isnt a mlb pitcher and I think a period is a good way to emphasize that as well as end this sentence.
YESSIR!
03-19-09, 02:05 PM
We are talking about a guy that is so bad and is such an embarassment to the team that the guy who scouted him was fired. He isnt a mlb pitcher and I think a period is a good way to emphasize that as well as end this sentence.
Your contribution is noteworthy.
millervt
03-19-09, 02:24 PM
Do the rules allow one team to pay a variable amount of a person's contract for another team based on their performance? It seems like that would be a solution in this case - send/trade him to a pitching poor NL team, and if he does well, he gets paid more by the NL team, and conversely.
right now the problem is that he is damaged goods based on his prior performance and would be hard to trade unless we picked up nearly his entire salary, but it would be frustrating if we did that and he turned into an OK pitcher in the NL that they would have paid a lot of his $4M if they had only known that. Frankly, there is almost no chance of him getting enough innings with the yankees to turn around his past performance, so we're stuck if we can't do something like that.
Curmudgeon
03-19-09, 02:39 PM
I don't think the evaluation is rocket science. I haven't watched him this Spring, but in the past Igawa couldn't keep his breaking pitches down. That's why he was shelled. If he keeps his curve down he could be effective.
PocketAces12
03-19-09, 03:37 PM
excuse me, but you may consider rocketbooster to be socially inept but she's been a poster on this board for sometime and one who manages to interact quite amicably with others. she has also managed to refrain from making judgments about other posters in the way you have.
:)
She didn't interact amicably with Yessir and I..did you read the previous posts or are you basing your argument on the long standing relationship with Rocketbooster?
Question...when someone comes off rude or unfriendly (ie shooting down my statement with the baseless "he's not an MLB caliber pitcher-period") then follows that up with getting very defensive and overreactive, when exactly are we allowed to judge that person? When someone is acting social inept or awkward, they should be called out. If you you don't, you're enabling them, aren't you?
PocketAces12
03-19-09, 03:38 PM
Thanks ! Maybe that's why I like Alex- I recognize a socially inept pea in the pod!
Lol, so me staying levelheaded and not making baseless judgements on a pitcher makes me the socially inept one? Yeah that makes perfect sense....Are you sure you're not Bill O'Reilly?
hellonewman
03-19-09, 04:42 PM
Please folks, this is a thread to discuss Kei Igawa and his sheer awesomeness. Let us all contemplate his works.
And now a word from our sponsor:
http://www.osakacuisine.com/
Rocketbooster
03-19-09, 04:45 PM
Lol, so me staying levelheaded and not making baseless judgements on a pitcher makes me the socially inept one? Yeah that makes perfect sense....Are you sure you're not Bill O'Reilly?
I was talking about myself......not that it matters anymore, if it ever did.
effdamets
03-20-09, 10:07 AM
You know what, I don't agree that just because he pitched well once against the Red Sox, doesn't mean he has anything resembling "potential" to be a major league pitcher.
With all of his failings (and they far, far outweigh his successes) I am much more inclined to say that either A) the Red Sox had a collectively awful day at the plate, or B) Igawa got lucky.
The faster the Yankees can unload their garbage, no matter how expensive the garbage may be, the less temptation they will have to put that garbage out on the field.
smckdwn989
03-20-09, 10:43 AM
You know what, I don't agree that just because he pitched well once against the Red Sox, doesn't mean he has anything resembling "potential" to be a major league pitcher.
With all of his failings (and they far, far outweigh his successes) I am much more inclined to say that either A) the Red Sox had a collectively awful day at the plate, or B) Igawa got lucky.
The faster the Yankees can unload their garbage, no matter how expensive the garbage may be, the less temptation they will have to put that garbage out on the field.
referring to igawa as garbage is unacceptable.
i'm sorry, i don't like him either... but he's not garbage.
effdamets
03-20-09, 10:46 AM
referring to igawa as garbage is unacceptable.
i'm sorry, i don't like him either... but he's not garbage.
OK.
Opinions vary......
smckdwn989
03-20-09, 10:47 AM
OK.
Opinions vary......
but the rules of this forum do not.
Reggievision
03-20-09, 10:48 AM
.Are you sure you're not Bill O'Reilly?
SHUT UP! SHUT UP!
*eats falafel*
Yankee Tripper
03-20-09, 03:17 PM
The K man keeps his 0.00 ERA, but was touch and go for a moment as he loaded the bases with 2 BBs and 1B and went full on Span before inducing the pitchers best friend.
themgmt
03-20-09, 03:26 PM
Mo's job is in jeopardy.
DaSh 1s
03-20-09, 03:38 PM
Lets groom Kei Igawa to be Mo's successor.
hellonewman
03-20-09, 03:45 PM
Scoff away, oh unbelievers.
Igawa will lead us to glory. Revere him.
RedPDT42
03-20-09, 04:32 PM
Dean Tiseo had a pretty good review of Igawa this spring:
http://.............................................................com/say-kei-kid-igawa-that-is/
"“The Say Kei” kid has emerged from his fox hole this spring, and given the Yankees a reason to feel a bit happier about the money they spent two plus years ago. It just may take a little longer for the Japanese native to prove he’s worth it."
primetime714
03-20-09, 08:27 PM
Not sure what the basis for all this is. In 2007, Igawa started the season in the rotation, made 5 starts, pitched to an ERA of 7.63, and then was lifted for about a month. He came back and pitched fairly regularly for about 5 weeks to an ERA of 5.97, then made one last start at the end of Sept., a scoreless outing of 5 innings.
In 2008, he only got into two games. The first was an abbreviated start where he got hit hard over 3.0 IP. The second was a scoreless one-inning relief outing a couple weeks later. So, 4 innings altogether.
That's the entirety of his career with the Yankees. No question he's pitched pretty badly. However, I don't see a pattern of him pitching brilliantly, building up expectations, then suddenly crashing back down to earth again, time after time after time. Moreover, to be fair, nobody HERE seems to have any particularly high expectations for Igawa. People are simply pointing out that, after a very successful year in AAA, Igawa is now having a terrific ST. I personally don't think Igawa is so bad that we should stop keeping track of how well or how poorly he is pitching.
I was referring mostly to his minor league success as outside of a very few moments he has been an utter disaster in the major leagues. He'll do something in the minor leagues or in ST and then people will start talking about giving him another chance and if he does get that chance he always blows it. Anytime any sort of hope is built for this guy it usually gets shot down quickly.
She didn't interact amicably with Yessir and I..did you read the previous posts or are you basing your argument on the long standing relationship with Rocketbooster?
Question...when someone comes off rude or unfriendly (ie shooting down my statement with the baseless "he's not an MLB caliber pitcher-period") then follows that up with getting very defensive and overreactive, when exactly are we allowed to judge that person? When someone is acting social inept or awkward, they should be called out. If you you don't, you're enabling them, aren't you?
actually my point was that she managed to refrain from insults.
as for the your complaints about being people being defensive and overreacting ... you are on an internet chat board which discusses the yankees, what the did you expect?
relax, smile and talk about baseball. leave the annamosity at the door.
:)
Damon(MVP)
03-23-09, 04:11 PM
Unless he gets bombed in his next outings and if Kei continues to pitch well I don't see how he does not make the opening day roster.
goin for 27
03-23-09, 04:51 PM
Well, he won't be on the roster. Igawa assinged to AAA this afternoon.
Yankyfan
03-23-09, 06:32 PM
I think he'll draw intrest from someone now. Maybe he's the PTBNL for Stewart ?
jobamogo
03-23-09, 08:15 PM
One of Cashman's biggest blunders. Igawa......Makes the money spent on Pavano look well-spent.
TEPLimey
03-23-09, 08:23 PM
I still have some hope for Igawa. I don't know why.
goin for 27
03-23-09, 08:24 PM
One of Cashman's biggest blunders. Igawa......Makes the money spent on Pavano look well-spent.
Okay, now THAT is a little harsh....;)
jobamogo
03-23-09, 08:25 PM
I still have some hope for Igawa. I don't know why.
Yeah.....me too...hope he gives back 40 of the 46 million before he goes back to Japan or wherever..
NelsonMuntz
03-23-09, 09:13 PM
Well, he won't be on the roster. Igawa assinged to AAA this afternoon.
Good. He was awful on Saturday. Same old Igawa.
jobamogo
03-24-09, 04:52 AM
Okay, now THAT is a little harsh....;)
How so? I bet there are alot of other competent players who would like to be getting the money Igawa gets for being a minor league pitcher.
hope he gives back 40 of the 46 million before he goes back to Japan or wherever..
You know, I just can't understand why he agrees to spend a couple of more years in Scranton PA. Is he THAT dependent on the money in that contract? I think if it were me, I'd be so miserable and embarrassed that I would agree to tear up the contract so I can go home and be successful in my own country. I can make good money at home.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Igawa and Cabrera packaged and traded at some point in time this season.....One can only hope......
smckdwn989
03-24-09, 09:36 AM
One of Cashman's biggest blunders. Igawa......Makes the money spent on Pavano look well-spent.
let's all jump on cash's back on this one. because ownership had nothing to do with it... nothing at all.
DaSh 1s
03-24-09, 09:37 AM
You know, I just can't understand why he agrees to spend a couple of more years in Scranton PA. Is he THAT dependent on the money in that contract? I think if it were me, I'd be so miserable and embarrassed that I would agree to tear up the contract so I can go home and be successful in my own country. I can make good money at home.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Igawa and Cabrera packaged and traded at some point in time this season.....One can only hope......
I really don't know about you but I would not be miserable nor embarrassed, making fourty million, pitching in PA.
cyhughes22
03-24-09, 09:44 AM
I really don't know about you but I would not be miserable nor embarrassed, making fourty million, pitching in PA.
Seriously though and I promise this isn't racist or anything like that, the Japanese are known for their honor and pride and sense of duty. It should be terribly embarassing for him to be a handsomely paid failure. Culturally that's not very acceptable there.
let's all jump on cash's back on this one. because ownership had nothing to do with it... nothing at all.
How so? What info do you have that it wasn't completely Cash's call?
DaSh 1s
03-24-09, 09:50 AM
Seriously though and I promise this isn't racist or anything like that, the Japanese are known for their honor and pride and sense of duty. It should be terribly embarassing for him to be a handsomely paid failure. Culturally that's not very acceptable there.
I understand that, but with fourty million in the bank he should be driving around bumping "Hi, hater"
goin for 27
03-24-09, 10:24 AM
How so? What info do you have that it wasn't completely Cash's call?
Because any bad call on Yankees personnel is driven by the "Tampa Faction", and any great call is Cashman's. Where have you been? ;)
YESSIR!
03-24-09, 10:37 AM
I understand that, but with fourty million in the bank he should be driving around bumping "Hi, hater"
He only received a $20 million contract. The other $26M was a posting fee paid to his former Japanese team.
I agree with your sentiment though. Who knows, maybe he likes being filthy rich and living in PA for half the year?
DaSh 1s
03-24-09, 12:07 PM
He only received a $20 million contract. The other $26M was a posting fee paid to his former Japanese team.
I agree with your sentiment though. Who knows, maybe he likes being filthy rich and living in PA for half the year?
You are correct on the salary, I was just using the figure I saw in the post above me. But yes, I think he can find many things to do with 20 million dollars to take his mind off his "shamefullness"
hellonewman
03-24-09, 01:59 PM
Well, he won't be on the roster. Igawa assinged to AAA this afternoon.Outrage. :mad:
You know, I just can't understand why he agrees to spend a couple of more years in Scranton PA. Is he THAT dependent on the money in that contract? I think if it were me, I'd be so miserable and embarrassed that I would agree to tear up the contract so I can go home and be successful in my own country. I can make good money at home.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Igawa and Cabrera packaged and traded at some point in time this season.....One can only hope......
Money is a good reason (4M year and is for 3 more years). I don't think Igawa figured he was going to stay that long in Scanton last year and maybe thought he was going to be in the pen this year based on ST.
Packaging Melky with Igawa will depend on how Gardner does. Action Jackson got a grand slam tonight. I think this is good idea.
Pavano was a worst trade and we had chance to trade him - Pavano never wanted to pitch (Igawa at least tries) and got 10M/yr (Wang 4M). Both 5 yrs (ugh).
Bucky
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-25-09, 07:48 AM
I wish we could package Melky, Igawa, and say Kennedy and get something useful.
I wish we could package Melky, Igawa, and say Kennedy and get something useful.
as long as we don't have to pay Igawa's salary, too
I wish we could package Melky, Igawa, and say Kennedy and get something useful.
I wish we could sell ice to Eskimos
I wish we could sell ice to Eskimos
well, bottled water is a big business nowadays. anything can happen
35Knucklecurve
03-25-09, 10:43 AM
I wish we could sell ice to Eskimos
That's my second favorite after selling sand to Arabia.
At least he's showing up and actually pitching - even if it is awful. That's more than I can say for Glass Ass.
Mantle'sMutt
03-25-09, 03:11 PM
Kei, we knew ye hardly.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-25-09, 03:17 PM
I wish we could sell ice to Eskimos
Why? I feel like Eskimos would have ample ice. Where would you get this ice? How would you ship it? I don't think I like your business plan.
Why? So we can get something nice in return
I feel like Eskimos would have ample ice. Our ice is better
Where would you get this ice? From the government subsidized ice farmer bail-out program, backed by the US-Russian trade agreement.
How would you ship it? Melt it, dehydrate it, and drop ship huge quantities directly from Siberia in a single envelope
I don't think I like your business plan. Estimated expenses: $1.00 to cover envelope and postage. Expected Return: One 17 year old, lefthanded Eskimo who can throw a snowball 110 mph.
effdamets
03-26-09, 08:39 AM
Why? So we can get something nice in return
I feel like Eskimos would have ample ice. Our ice is better
Where would you get this ice? From the government subsidized ice farmer bail-out program, backed by the US-Russian trade agreement.
How would you ship it? Melt it, dehydrate it, and drop ship huge quantities directly from Siberia in a single envelope
I don't think I like your business plan. Estimated expenses: $1.00 to cover envelope and postage. Expected Return: One 17 year old, lefthanded Eskimo who can throw a snowball 110 mph.
I think what JVIS is trying to say is, why would the Yankees try to pawn off Igawa, a sub-par pitcher, to a team that is rich in the pitching department?
The problem is that the Yankees cannot even sell Igawa to a team that has ZERO pitching.
A better analogy would be, "I wish we could sell a sandwich to an Ethiopian".
TheDynasty26
03-26-09, 08:43 AM
I think what JVIS is trying to say is, why would the Yankees try to pawn off Igawa, a sub-par pitcher, to a team that is rich in the pitching department?
The problem is that the Yankees cannot even sell Igawa to a team that has ZERO pitching.
A better analogy would be, "I wish we could sell a sandwich to an Ethiopian".
I think that was his point, "I wish i could sell ice to esikmos"
Moving Igawa is just as impossible of a task. Selling a sandwich to an Ethiopian would be really easy. If they had money.
effdamets
03-26-09, 08:46 AM
I think that was his point, "I wish i could sell ice to esikmos"
Moving Igawa is just as impossible of a task. Selling a sandwich to an Ethiopian would be really easy. If they had money.
I see that.
I was basing my comment on "Eskimos would have ample ice".
Ethiopinas wouldn't have ample food but they still aren't buying.
Teams that have God-awful pitching don't want Igawa.
You're right though, moving Igawa is going to be near impossible - even if the Yankees pick up a good portion of the salary.
yank4lif
03-27-09, 10:41 AM
I do not understand why the Yankees do not release Igawa. His trade value is about nil and he is taking s space that a prospect can fill. I think it was telling when Japan did not want him for the WBC. I think the Yankees should just let him go.
stazsanity
03-27-09, 10:44 AM
I do not understand why the Yankees do not release Igawa. His trade value is about nil and he is taking s space that a prospect can fill. I think it was telling when Japan did not want him for the WBC. I think the Yankees should just let him go.
sometimes, pride is a prime motivator. the yankees paid this (mistake) 43 million dollars... i couldn't agree with you more, but their pride may be getting the best of them.
Stache Fan
03-27-09, 02:40 PM
sometimes, pride is a prime motivator. the yankees paid this (mistake) 43 million dollars... i couldn't agree with you more, but their pride may be getting the best of them.
No...it's because Cashman still sees a little bit of hope for him. He's got good pitches, but just seems to fall apart every time he pitches in the majors. Maybe they can change his attitude and he will improve? Besides, another team would probably sign him if released.
Mantle'sMutt
03-27-09, 02:56 PM
His future is so dull he's got to remove shades.
azzurribaggio
03-27-09, 05:33 PM
No...it's because Cashman still sees a little bit of hope for him. He's got good pitches, but just seems to fall apart every time he pitches in the majors. Maybe they can change his attitude and he will improve? Besides, another team would probably sign him if released.
If another team signs him let's hope it's in the AL East so we can tee off the guy
stazsanity
03-30-09, 10:44 AM
No...it's because Cashman still sees a little bit of hope for him. He's got good pitches, but just seems to fall apart every time he pitches in the majors. Maybe they can change his attitude and he will improve? Besides, another team would probably sign him if released.
which pitches are these "good pitches" that you speak of? the fastball that doesn't exceed 91MPH with no movement... or is it the breaking-ball that dives either directly into the dirt or over the middle of the plate?
Don Wrigley
03-30-09, 11:23 AM
sometimes, pride is a prime motivator. the yankees paid this (mistake) 43 million dollars... i couldn't agree with you more, but their pride may be getting the best of them.
Pride is also the reason the Japanese WBC didn't want him on his team.
It's more prideful to take a guy from your own league than a guy who can't hack it in our major leagues.
No...it's because Cashman still sees a little bit of hope for him. He's got good pitches, but just seems to fall apart every time he pitches in the majors. Maybe they can change his attitude and he will improve? Besides, another team would probably sign him if released.
The yankees, even when he signed him thought his stuff was average at best, they saw him as nothing higher than a back end of the rotation guy so the bar wasnt set all that high for success. Hes turned out to be much worse than those standards but I still think he has a moveable contract because if your left handed you will eventually find a job in this league.
goin for 27
03-30-09, 03:15 PM
The yankees, even when he signed him thought his stuff was average at best, they saw him as nothing higher than a back end of the rotation guy so the bar wasnt set all that high for success. Hes turned out to be much worse than those standards but I still think he has a moveable contract because if your left handed you will eventually find a job in this league.
This is conjecture....:link:
It would be much cheaper/easier to get a back of the rotation guy than what they did to get Igawa. I could buy that some thought this of him, but somehad to think he would be a very solid starter to pay that kind of money. The Yanks blew it here, that's all one can say. (Twice, actually, they could have let the Padres take him, and relieve the salary at least)
Rocketbooster
03-30-09, 05:16 PM
This is conjecture....:link:
It would be much cheaper/easier to get a back of the rotation guy than what they did to get Igawa. I could buy that some thought this of him, but somehad to think he would be a very solid starter to pay that kind of money. The Yanks blew it here, that's all one can say. (Twice, actually, they could have let the Padres take him, and relieve the salary at least)
It's not conjecture -Cashman was definitely quoted as saying Igawa would be a #4 or 5 starter - they thought he'd be servicable, which they were quite wrong about.
This is conjecture....:link:
It would be much cheaper/easier to get a back of the rotation guy than what they did to get Igawa. I could buy that some thought this of him, but somehad to think he would be a very solid starter to pay that kind of money. The Yanks blew it here, that's all one can say. (Twice, actually, they could have let the Padres take him, and relieve the salary at least)Yeah, I'm probably more concerned with the latter than the former. After seeing him, they should have let the Pods have him and taken the salary relief. Hopefully he can continue to tear up AAA and someone will have some interest early this year.
I think Igawa has the ability to be better than the BP pitcher bashers want to paint him to be, but he's not cracking this rotation any time soon. And a 2/$8MM pitcher eating up a needed spot in the SWB rotation is just ridculous.
PittsburghYankeeFan
03-31-09, 02:47 AM
Here's an Igawa possibility--trade him back to a Japanese club for some of their "talent."
At least we get something in return.
Do the MLB rules allow this?
PittsburghYankeeFan
03-31-09, 02:47 AM
The yankees, even when he signed him thought his stuff was average at best, they saw him as nothing higher than a back end of the rotation guy so the bar wasnt set all that high for success. Hes turned out to be much worse than those standards but I still think he has a moveable contract because if your left handed you will eventually find a job in this league.
The scouts who were responsible for that evaluation are no longer with the club, if I'm not mistaken.
goin for 27
03-31-09, 10:43 AM
It's not conjecture -Cashman was definitely quoted as saying Igawa would be a #4 or 5 starter - they thought he'd be servicable, which they were quite wrong about.
I would love to see a link.
TEPLimey
03-31-09, 12:58 PM
I would love to see a link.
In fairness, I remember seeing that too...
goin for 27
03-31-09, 02:10 PM
In fairness, I remember seeing that too...
I will take a link from anyone....;)
Seriously, why would the Yanks spend that kind of money on one player, then call him "serviceable" and maybe a 4/5? There were many around here, and scouts around the league saying that, but not Cashman. I do remember Cashman talking about it being tough to transition from Japan, and tamp down expectations, but that's about it.
I could see Cashman saying that he could immediately be a 4/5, then develop further, but all I remember in the negative, was David Wright's comments, which of course were soundly derided around here.
vookaleer
03-31-09, 02:22 PM
I wonder if Jose Contreras turnaround with the White Sox convinced the Yanks not to let Mr Igawa.
35Knucklecurve
03-31-09, 02:58 PM
The scouts who were responsible for that evaluation are no longer with the club, if I'm not mistaken.
I certainly hope so - I'm beginning to wonder if they got the uniform numbers mixed up and the guy they thought they saw is still in Japan somewhere waiting to be discovered....again.
Mantle'sMutt
03-31-09, 03:28 PM
I certainly hope so - I'm beginning to wonder if they got the uniform numbers mixed up and the guy they thought they saw is still in Japan somewhere waiting to be discovered....again.
His cousin, Sid Igawa, or Kei Finch if they're doing that last name-first thing. ;)
hellonewman
03-31-09, 04:01 PM
His cousin, Sid Igawa, or Kei Finch if they're doing that last name-first thing. ;)24th anniversary of that hoax is tomorrow.
millervt
03-31-09, 08:21 PM
"Seriously, why would the Yanks spend that kind of money on one player, then call him "serviceable" and maybe a 4/5?"
That kind of money wasn't that out of line for that kind of pitcher - a total of $45M for 5 years, and a bit better because $26M of it doesn't incur luxury tax, and having absorbed the signing fee up front, his contract would be tradeable. And declaring him to be a 4/5 pitcher at the time made sense, since we had wang, pettite, and mussina clearly slotted in the top 3 positions. Given how the yankees needed starting pitching at the time, it seemed like a reasonable deal for someone who was arguably the second best japanese pitcher (whose stats weren't that far behind dice-K, for whom the red sox paid over $100M).
This is conjecture....:link:
It would be much cheaper/easier to get a back of the rotation guy than what they did to get Igawa. I could buy that some thought this of him, but somehad to think he would be a very solid starter to pay that kind of money. The Yanks blew it here, that's all one can say. (Twice, actually, they could have let the Padres take him, and relieve the salary at least)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6915980162563047401&hl=en
NYYFutures17
04-01-09, 12:14 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6915980162563047401&hl=en
silly Cashman
jobamogo
04-01-09, 08:18 PM
He'll be rolling up Sushi at the new stadium food court for 26 mill per.
DEADSOX
04-01-09, 08:21 PM
I'm 'bout to roll up in his grill and teach him how to pitch.
silly Cashman
how much did he talk about economic reasons for signing igawa? it was the reason why i always understood the signing in comparison to over-paying a.n.other NL starter for $12m per year.
effdamets
04-03-09, 09:03 AM
I'm 'bout to roll up in his grill and teach him how to pitch.
I would have rather that the Yankees signed you instead of Igawa! :D
This is conjecture....:link:
It would be much cheaper/easier to get a back of the rotation guy than what they did to get Igawa. I could buy that some thought this of him, but somehad to think he would be a very solid starter to pay that kind of money. The Yanks blew it here, that's all one can say. (Twice, actually, they could have let the Padres take him, and relieve the salary at least)
that's not conjecture. i've seen a couple of reports/interviews prior to him pitching for us where cashman said exactly that.
DaSh 1s
11-11-09, 03:37 PM
Sherman tweets that there is interest in Japan from Kei Igawa, but he doesn't want to go. Igawa posted a 4.15 ERA in 145.3 Triple A innings this year, and still has $8MM remaining on his contract.
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/5627478321
flymick24
11-11-09, 03:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYW6C44zo24&feature=player_embedded
hellonewman
11-11-09, 03:48 PM
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/5627478321Must be the food:
http://www.osakacuisine.com/
primetime714
11-11-09, 04:02 PM
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/5627478321
Damn, there's gotta be some way to force him. I mean we've already guaranteed that he will never see the majors with us again, what can we do to make him more miserable? Bullpen? Trenton?
mrmike98
11-11-09, 04:23 PM
It was just criminal to pay him all that $ considering he doesn't even have a chin.
One of the worst signing ever.
flymick24
11-11-09, 04:33 PM
Damn, there's gotta be some way to force him. I mean we've already guaranteed that he will never see the majors with us again, what can we do to make him more miserable? Bullpen? Trenton?
he'll never leave... it's too shameful to go back to japan. culturally speaking, he'd go back and be viewed as a utter and complete failure, even if japanese teams do seem to want him.
he'll play out the remainder of this contract and then look to sign on with an NL team, bank on it.
PAULIEWALNUTS
11-11-09, 04:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYW6C44zo24&feature=player_embedded
Thanks flymick24, now I have that "song" in my head with that visual to go along with it. Thanks, thanks a lot. I hate you!;)
Vazquez
11-11-09, 04:53 PM
One day I will tell my grandchildren, I was there for Kei Igawa's 2 ER performance against Tampa Bay and Shelley Duncan's first Major League homer.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore;_ylt=AgzdYSImZ3O9.CNseb29VImFCLcF?gid=270721210
Must be the food:
http://www.osakacuisine.com/
Wow! That place looks great. Does it have a VIP room so Kei and his entorage can dine in peace, away from the throngs of SWB fans clamoring for autographs?
StatenIslandYankee
11-12-09, 02:52 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6915980162563047401&hl=enLOL! Just LOL!
StatenIslandYankee
11-12-09, 02:53 AM
Can we use him for batting practice? Or how about he cleans the toilets? Maybe he can drive a bullpen car to the mound. SOMETHING useful.
One of the worst signing ever.
pavano?
Hobbes40
11-12-09, 10:09 AM
LOL! Just LOL!
Here is a video of Igawa striking out Matsui back in Japan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjQJeTgYE2g
I strongly suspect shenanigans.
StatenIslandYankee
11-12-09, 10:14 AM
One of the worst signing ever.
Two worst Yankee signings of all time.
1 - Carl Pavano
2 - Kei Igawa
genius-24
11-12-09, 10:14 AM
To Kei's defense...he didn't get much chance.
Two worst Yankee signings of all time.
1 - Carl Pavano
2 - Kei Igawa
I put Igawa first. At least Pavano gave us some major league wins. All Igawa gave us were AAA wins.
pavano?
Close but Kei Igawa is worse.
Kei Igawa (2W, 4L, 71.2 IP, 6.66 ERA, 68 ERA+)
Pavano (9W, 8L, 145.2 IP, 5.00 ERA, 86 ERA+)
BronxYanks45
11-12-09, 11:16 AM
To Kei's defense...he didn't get much chance.
true, I mean I know the guy is terrible but can we use him in the bullpen, geez that contract reeks of money wasted
Two worst Yankee signings of all time.
1 - Carl Pavano
2 - Kei Igawa
there is some stiff competition for that honor. at least with pavano, it looked like a good signing at the time. who knew he would turn into Americal Idle ?? with igawa, it was obviously faulty scouting, crazy we paid that money for him when lilley and others were available.
but you also have to ask, who was making the pitching decisions 03 - 07: kevin brown, jaret wright, esteban loaiza, felix heredia, the balky unit, kyle farnsworth, gabe white ........... vazquez over shilling you can at least argue ........... wright over lieber was bogus .......... and maybe the worst move of recent vintage was letting andy go after 03 -- no credit given to the faint-hearted kiss-off they gave him then.
there is some stiff competition for that honor. at least with pavano, it looked like a good signing at the time. who knew he would turn into American Idle ?? with igawa, it was obviously faulty scouting, crazy we paid that money for him when lilley and others were available.
Hahahahahahahaha
Brilliant :D
I despise Pavano. Igawa was a worse signing, though.
primetime714
11-12-09, 03:55 PM
true, I mean I know the guy is terrible but can we use him in the bullpen, geez that contract reeks of money wasted
I feel like he got a fair shake. I mean he had only very few good performances at the major level and the rest were mostly horrible. A team in contention for the playoffs can't give him anymore than what we did.
Although I do agree at this point we might as well move him to the bullpen. I don't think he'll do that great there either, but I don't see much room for him in the AAA rotation. My guess is we'll go with: Nova, McCallister, Kennedy, R. Sanchez, and Hirsh as the starting 5 in SWB to start the year. Then there will be guys in AA that could push for a spot at some point during theseason (WDR, Bleich, Pope) and guys returning from injury that could figure in at some point (Horne, Kontos).
Either way I see Igawa as a long reliever/spot starter in the minors moving forward. And who knows maybe he could excel out of the bullpen.
Hahahahahahahaha
Brilliant :D
can't take credit >>> NY Post !!!
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/pavano_won_sit_idle_for_game_faHMa2g41bvxdfx4cQkm2N
cheers
Rocketbooster
11-12-09, 05:12 PM
there is some stiff competition for that honor. at least with pavano, it looked like a good signing at the time. who knew he would turn into Americal Idle ?? with igawa, it was obviously faulty scouting, crazy we paid that money for him when lilley and others were available.
but you also have to ask, who was making the pitching decisions 03 - 07: kevin brown, jaret wright, esteban loaiza, felix heredia, the balky unit, kyle farnsworth, gabe white ........... vazquez over shilling you can at least argue ........... wright over lieber was bogus .......... and maybe the worst move of recent vintage was letting andy go after 03 -- no credit given to the faint-hearted kiss-off they gave him then.
The Yankees did not choose Vasquez over Schilling - the Diamondbacks refused to trade him to the Yankees (or, they may as well have - they demanded Soriano and Nick Johnson, then took garbage from the Red Sox).
Rocketbooster
11-12-09, 05:13 PM
I feel like he got a fair shake. I mean he had only very few good performances at the major level and the rest were mostly horrible. A team in contention for the playoffs can't give him anymore than what we did.
Although I do agree at this point we might as well move him to the bullpen. I don't think he'll do that great there either, but I don't see much room for him in the AAA rotation. My guess is we'll go with: Nova, McCallister, Kennedy, R. Sanchez, and Hirsh as the starting 5 in SWB to start the year. Then there will be guys in AA that could push for a spot at some point during theseason (WDR, Bleich, Pope) and guys returning from injury that could figure in at some point (Horne, Kontos).
Either way I see Igawa as a long reliever/spot starter in the minors moving forward. And who knows maybe he could excel out of the bullpen.
No thanks......let him be the towel boy in AAA. He doesn't belong on a ML roster ............certainly not the Yankees.
Who's Hirsch?
PAULIEWALNUTS
11-12-09, 06:31 PM
I feel like he got a fair shake. I mean he had only very few good performances at the major level and the rest were mostly horrible. A team in contention for the playoffs can't give him anymore than what we did.
Although I do agree at this point we might as well move him to the bullpen. I don't think he'll do that great there either, but I don't see much room for him in the AAA rotation. My guess is we'll go with: Nova, McCallister, Kennedy, R. Sanchez, and Hirsh as the starting 5 in SWB to start the year. Then there will be guys in AA that could push for a spot at some point during theseason (WDR, Bleich, Pope) and guys returning from injury that could figure in at some point (Horne, Kontos).
Either way I see Igawa as a long reliever/spot starter in the minors moving forward. And who knows maybe he could excel out of the bullpen.
What's up with Umberto Sanchez? Last I heard he was doing OK but that was quite a while ago. Any info?
The Yankees did not choose Vasquez over Schilling - the Diamondbacks refused to trade him to the Yankees (or, they may as well have - they demanded Soriano and Nick Johnson, then took garbage from the Red Sox).
i thought both the yanks and red sox had initially pegged vazquez as their top choice over schilling for age reasons, but was fuzzy on this .......... AHA, was this the scenario where the (AZ) owner hated george and did this to stick it to him ....... ??? ......
Rocketbooster
11-12-09, 06:58 PM
i thought both the yanks and red sox had initially pegged vazquez as their top choice over schilling for age reasons, but was fuzzy on this .......... AHA, was this the scenario where the (AZ) owner hated george and did this to stick it to him ....... ??? ......
Yes..........I think David Wells had a handshake agreement with Arizona, then reneged on it to return to the Yankees. Eventually Jerry Colangelo was fired - and rightly so. He put a personal vendetta against the best interests of his team.
Yes..........I think David Wells had a handshake agreement with Arizona, then reneged on it to return to the Yankees. Eventually Jerry Colangelo was fired - and rightly so. He put a personal vendetta against the best interests of his team.
OK gotcha / thanks
Rocketbooster
11-12-09, 07:39 PM
OK gotcha / thanks
you're welcome!
BronxYanks45
11-13-09, 09:51 AM
No thanks......let him be the towel boy in AAA. He doesn't belong on a ML roster ............certainly not the Yankees.
Who's Hirsch?
Jason Hirsh http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hirshja01.shtml
some guy we got at the trade deadline, I think he was basically insurance for the bullpen incase someone went down. Never got on the 40 man roster and never got called up mainly stayed in SWB for rest of 2009
Alan Slocum
11-13-09, 01:22 PM
there is some stiff competition for that honor. at least with pavano, it looked like a good signing at the time. who knew he would turn into Americal Idle ?? with igawa, it was obviously faulty scouting, crazy we paid that money for him when lilley and others were available.
but you also have to ask, who was making the pitching decisions 03 - 07: kevin brown, jaret wright, esteban loaiza, felix heredia, the balky unit, kyle farnsworth, gabe white ........... vazquez over shilling you can at least argue ........... wright over lieber was bogus .......... and maybe the worst move of recent vintage was letting andy go after 03 -- no credit given to the faint-hearted kiss-off they gave him then.
If you find out the answer to that question (who was making all those pitching decisions) please be sure and post it. They didn't do much of anything right during those years.
Alan Slocum
11-13-09, 01:29 PM
Jason Hirsh http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hirshja01.shtml
some guy we got at the trade deadline, I think he was basically insurance for the bullpen incase someone went down. Never got on the 40 man roster and never got called up mainly stayed in SWB for rest of 2009
He had a pretty solid season in Scranton, gee Rocket, I am surprised if you don't recall him. But I thought he didn't finish the season with the Yankees? Didn't he have an opt-out that he exercised, or did he get injured and is still our property? I was figuring he was gone. I would take him back if he is available, but we have to pay Igawa anyway, so I would go with Igawa in the rotation. He has been mostly solid in Scranton.
Rocketbooster
11-13-09, 04:35 PM
Jason Hirsh http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hirshja01.shtml
some guy we got at the trade deadline, I think he was basically insurance for the bullpen incase someone went down. Never got on the 40 man roster and never got called up mainly stayed in SWB for rest of 2009
Thanks - he was the guy from Colorado, right?
Sixty one
11-14-09, 10:55 AM
The best thing that could happen to Igawa would be for the Yankees to trade him to a team like Seattle even if it meant picking up part of his salary in exchange for a prospect.
The best thing that could happen to Igawa would be for the Yankees to trade him to a team like Seattle even if it meant picking up part of his salary in exchange for a prospect.
Igawa could also be part of a deal with the Tigs to offset some of the salary the Yanks would have to pick up to get Granderson.
CallOfTheCrow
11-14-09, 02:25 PM
The best thing that could happen to Igawa would be for the Yankees to trade him to a team like Seattle even if it meant picking up part of his salary in exchange for a prospect.
Why Seattle?
ARodCanoMelky
11-14-09, 04:03 PM
Igawa was a horrible signing even before signing.
JfromJersey
11-14-09, 05:16 PM
The only question I have is..why is there a Kei Igawa performance thread?
The only question I have is..why is there a Kei Igawa performance thread?
WHO??????
sweet_lou_14
11-15-09, 01:14 AM
Is 2010 the last year of his contract, or do we have him until 2011?
Is 2010 the last year of his contract, or do we have him until 2011?
Yes, we have him under contract through 2011. He's arbitration eligible in 2012. :eek:
Sixty one
11-15-09, 09:12 AM
Why Seattle?
They need pitching and who knows maybe the change of scenary to the far West would do him good.
primetime714
11-15-09, 09:41 AM
No thanks......let him be the towel boy in AAA. He doesn't belong on a ML roster ............certainly not the Yankees.
Who's Hirsch?
Never said he did belong on a major league roster. Just said we might as well move him to the bullpen in AAA because nothing he does in the AAA rotation will be enough to get rid of him in a trade and he's all out of chances with the Yankees. Might as well make room for others in that AAA rotation and who knows maybe Igawa re-invents himself in the bullpen to the point where someone might be interested in taking some of that contract off of our hands. I highly doubt it but nothing is going to change if he just remains in the Scranton rotation.
Hirsh was acquired mid season via trade with the Rockies. He used to be a good prospect for the Rockies, but has really struggled the past couple years. He has a good arm though and in limited time in Scranton was extremely effective. He is however a long shot to help out in the majors, so he's probably the first bumped from the AAA rotation, but I definitely put him ahead of Igawa. Although to be honest not sure if we still have Hirsh signed next year he could be a free agent.
primetime714
11-15-09, 09:45 AM
What's up with Umberto Sanchez? Last I heard he was doing OK but that was quite a while ago. Any info?
Humberto finally seemed to get healthy by around midseason last year. He made the transition to the bullpen and seemed to get stronger as the year went by as he worked his way up to Scranton where he pitched 5 scoreless innings to end the year.
He'll start next year in the Scranton bullpen and definitely has a shot be called up at some point during the season.
Rocketbooster
11-15-09, 09:57 AM
Never said he did belong on a major league roster. Just said we might as well move him to the bullpen in AAA because nothing he does in the AAA rotation will be enough to get rid of him in a trade and he's all out of chances with the Yankees. Might as well make room for others in that AAA rotation and who knows maybe Igawa re-invents himself in the bullpen to the point where someone might be interested in taking some of that contract off of our hands. I highly doubt it but nothing is going to change if he just remains in the Scranton rotation.
Hirsh was acquired mid season via trade with the Rockies. He used to be a good prospect for the Rockies, but has really struggled the past couple years. He has a good arm though and in limited time in Scranton was extremely effective. He is however a long shot to help out in the majors, so he's probably the first bumped from the AAA rotation, but I definitely put him ahead of Igawa. Although to be honest not sure if we still have Hirsh signed next year he could be a free agent.
Oh, I thought you meant put him in our bullpen......oops!
nnysiny
11-15-09, 09:58 AM
The only question I have is..why is there a Kei Igawa performance thread? better question...why is there a Kei Igawa 2009 Performance Thread?
there is a part of me that feels sorry for the guy. he had a really good career in japan and he's come here to spend four years in the minors.
effdamets
11-16-09, 01:23 PM
there is a part of me that feels sorry for the guy. he had a really good career in japan and he's come here to spend four years in the minors.
I wouldn't feel that bad... he's getting paid a hefty sum to be a miserable failure!
I wouldn't feel that bad... he's getting paid a hefty sum to be a miserable failure!
Yeah, but can you imagine the let down he's had. Here's a guy who expected to live and work in one of the greatest cities in the world, but ends up in Scranton, PA with no way out.
Yeah, but can you imagine the let down he's had. Here's a guy who expected to live and work in one of the greatest cities in the world, but ends up in Scranton, PA with no way out.
He can. There is rumor that some teams in Japan want him back. He chooses to stay.
I wouldn't feel that bad... he's getting paid a hefty sum to be a miserable failure!
this ...
Yeah, but can you imagine the let down he's had. Here's a guy who expected to live and work in one of the greatest cities in the world, but ends up in Scranton, PA with no way out.
there is a part of me that feels sorry for the guy. he had a really good career in japan and he's come here to spend four years in the minors.I know what you are saying but the fact remains, he is getting paid millions of dollars, dollars which the Yankees expected to be paying for a performance at the ML level, and he simply cannot get the job done. He came with a lot of hype and he has done virtually nothing at the ML level for the Yankees.
CallOfTheCrow
11-17-09, 04:20 PM
I know what you are saying but the fact remains, he is getting paid millions of dollars, dollars which the Yankees expected to be paying for a performance at the ML level, and he simply cannot get the job done. He came with a lot of hype and he has done virtually nothing at the ML level for the Yankees.
What hype? Even Cashman said not to expect a #1 or anything like that.
I know what you are saying but the fact remains, he is getting paid millions of dollars, dollars which the Yankees expected to be paying for a performance at the ML level, and he simply cannot get the job done. He came with a lot of hype and he has done virtually nothing at the ML level for the Yankees.
none of this changes that a part of me feels sorry for the guy. i suspect he'd give up those millions for a little major league success.
Rocketbooster
11-18-09, 07:21 AM
I wouldn't feel that bad... he's getting paid a hefty sum to be a miserable failure!
I definitely don't feel badly for him - in fact, I have a pretty intense dislike of him. I can not wait until we are out from under his contract.......
I definitely don't feel badly for him - in fact, I have a pretty intense dislike of him. I can not wait until we are out from under his contract.......
why do you have an intense dislike for him? Do you know him personally? Did he do something to your family? He's just a pitcher who failed in the U.S. An athlete for your entertainment and consumption. But a human being, ultimately.
Rocketbooster
11-18-09, 07:43 AM
why do you have an intense dislike for him? Do you know him personally? Did he do something to your family? He's just a pitcher who failed in the U.S. An athlete for your entertainment and consumption. But a human being, ultimately.
It's no different then anyone else not liking another player; I just don't like Igawa.
Seeing how Cashman has stuck with Marte this offseason as far as lefty relievers, go, and given Girardi's L/R obsession, it's pretty clear that we're gonna need some kind of backup, or a second lefty in the pen. Logan sucks hard---always has, minors, majors, whatever.
So:
I'm gonna posit that Igawa is next on the depth-chart for lefty relievers. Obviously, it's hard to find L/R splits for players in the minors, so I'm gonna just copy some stuff from RAB:
"In lefty-lefty situations last year Igawa posted a 2.54 FIP, inducing 40 percent ground balls. He strikes out more lefties, but more importantly he walks far fewer — just four over 169 lefties faced last season, while he walked 38 out of 491 righties. Predictably, he allows far more home runs against righties as well. With men on base Igawa actually pitches a bit better than with none on, with a FIP of more than a run lower. This is mostly attributable to his home run rate with runners on, an important factor for a reliever. Of the 260 batters he faced with men on, he allowed just five home runs, while 17 of 400 batters with the bases empty took him out of the park."
(Now, we wanna note that his L/R splits are in fact in reverse in his short time as a starter in the majors, but I wouldn't put too much value in those numbers, as L/R splits change for pitchers over time and he pretty much sucked in general.)
Ultimately, those are pretty effin good numbers, yo. Here's to the start of the IGAWA-TO-THE-PEN movement.
(because Logan sucks)
Yankee Tripper
02-10-10, 02:17 PM
This thread should only be bumped when he gets traded.
'Cause there's some team out there is gonna wanna trade prospects for a 6 million dollar minor leaguer when guys like Washburn don't have contracts.
Seeing how Cashman has stuck with Marte this offseason as far as lefty relievers, go, and given Girardi's L/R obsession, it's pretty clear that we're gonna need some kind of backup, or a second lefty in the pen. Logan sucks hard---always has, minors, majors, whatever.
So:
I'm gonna posit that Igawa is next on the depth-chart for lefty relievers. Obviously, it's hard to find L/R splits for players in the minors, so I'm gonna just copy some stuff from RAB:
"In lefty-lefty situations last year Igawa posted a 2.54 FIP, inducing 40 percent ground balls. He strikes out more lefties, but more importantly he walks far fewer — just four over 169 lefties faced last season, while he walked 38 out of 491 righties. Predictably, he allows far more home runs against righties as well. With men on base Igawa actually pitches a bit better than with none on, with a FIP of more than a run lower. This is mostly attributable to his home run rate with runners on, an important factor for a reliever. Of the 260 batters he faced with men on, he allowed just five home runs, while 17 of 400 batters with the bases empty took him out of the park."
(Now, we wanna note that his L/R splits are in fact in reverse in his short time as a starter in the majors, but I wouldn't put too much value in those numbers, as L/R splits change for pitchers over time and he pretty much sucked in general.)
Ultimately, those are pretty effin good numbers, yo. Here's to the start of the IGAWA-TO-THE-PEN movement.
(because Logan sucks)
Igawa's MiLB splits for 2009:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td align="right">
</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffccff"><th>
</th><th> </th><th>IP</th><th>FIP</th><th> </th><th>BF</th><th>H</th><th>2B</th><th>HR</th><th>W</th><th>IW</th><th>K</th><th>GDP</th><th> </th><th>AVG</th><th>BABIP</th><th>WHIP</th><th>W/9</th><th>K/9</th><th>HR/9</th><th> </th><th>GB%</th><th>LD%</th><th>FB%</th><th>IF/F</th><th>HR/F</th></tr><tr><td>vs. LH</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">45.0</td><td align="right">2.54</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">169</td><td align="right">32</td><td align="right">7</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">37</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">0.200</td><td align="right">0.248</td><td align="right">0.80</td><td align="right">0.80</td><td align="right">7.40</td><td align="right">0.40</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">40.6%</td><td align="right">18.0%</td><td align="right">39.1%</td><td align="right">15.1%</td><td align="right">4.0%</td></tr><tr><td>vs. RH</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">110.3</td><td align="right">5.24</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">491</td><td align="right">145</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">38</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">79</td><td align="right">9</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">0.320</td><td align="right">0.353</td><td align="right">1.66</td><td align="right">3.10</td><td align="right">6.44</td><td align="right">1.63</td><td align="right">
</td><td align="right">31.5%</td><td align="right">25.0%</td><td align="right">41.1%</td><td align="right">11.4%</td><td align="right">12.7%</td></tr></tbody></table>
Try www.minorleaguesplits.com (http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/) for minor league splits:
flymick24
02-10-10, 02:38 PM
it's pretty amazing that igawa has not been tried out of the bullpen yet.. it's almost like cashman is so dead set on having his investment reap rewards eventually
EDIT** see Blazer's post above instead.
SSS, maybe... but still better than the larger sample size of Logan's suckiness.
08 minors numbers show a strong split the other way, so maybe this is luck/noise. Quite possible. Or maybe he took a different approach on lefties in response to a request/ultimatum by the Yankee FO: something in the vein of "learn to get out lefties or you'll be here forever."
*creates a narrative based on nothing to argue his point*
*grasps for straws*
Still better than Logan.
Try www.minorleaguesplits.com (http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/) for minor league splits:
Yeah, thanks, I posted before I saw your post... But somehow I wasn't able to copy the field formatting so I did it by hand. :(
teknetic
02-10-10, 02:42 PM
I would have probably kicked you in the nuts if you would have told that out of our two Asian pitchers, Igawa would be the last one standing.
Yeah, thanks, I posted before I saw your post... But somehow I wasn't able to copy the field formatting so I did it by hand. :(
It was a little tricky, but it worked after I began my copy from the very end of the line above the header.
Igawa's was pretty good against LH batters. Why not give him a try out of the BP.
flymick24
02-10-10, 02:45 PM
cuz cashman is stubborn
ThePinStripes
02-11-10, 09:07 AM
Igawa's was pretty good against LH batters. Why not give him a try out of the BP.
Mostly because he sucks a lot.
hellonewman
02-11-10, 09:13 AM
I like this idea. Igawa will be a great addition to the Scranton bullpen.
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