View Full Version : Clemens and Torre snubbed?
Retire21
09-22-08, 09:57 AM
Any thoughts on Roger Clemens and Joe Torre not getting mentioned during the pre-game ceremony of Yankee greats?
Clemens, I really don't care about, though I do think it odd that the Yankees very openly ignored his accomplishments with the team while honoring/mentioning Chuck Knoblauch.
I can't remember if the great Yankee managers were mentioned or not as I didn't catch the whole pre-game ceremony, but Torre should have been mentioned in my opinion.
Thoughts?
yanksrule69
09-22-08, 10:02 AM
They didn't ignore Clemens. He was in the pitcher's montage. I was kind of surprised and was thinking it would be very strange if he was there.
Before they started doing position by position there was an announcement about how the Yankee family is so extensive and how many members of the Yankee family couldn't be there because they are now a part of another team. To me, that was a "shoutout" of sorts to Torre and Donnie Baseball. Personally, I don't think they needed to do anything more than that.
THEBOSS84
09-22-08, 10:19 AM
Shutting out Clemens is pretty hypocritical.
Retire21
09-22-08, 10:22 AM
They didn't ignore Clemens. He was in the pitcher's montage. I was kind of surprised and was thinking it would be very strange if he was there.
Before they started doing position by position there was an announcement about how the Yankee family is so extensive and how many members of the Yankee family couldn't be there because they are now a part of another team. To me, that was a "shoutout" of sorts to Torre and Donnie Baseball. Personally, I don't think they needed to do anything more than that.
My mistake if they mentioned Clemens during the montage. I didn't remember seeing him during the montage and, of course, he wasn't there, so I thought they ignored him entirely.
So that's how they handled Torre and Mattingly? They should have mentioned them by name. Just one guy's opinion.
ynkefan23
09-22-08, 10:43 AM
My mistake if they mentioned Clemens during the montage. I didn't remember seeing him during the montage and, of course, he wasn't there, so I thought they ignored him entirely.
So that's how they handled Torre and Mattingly? They should have mentioned them by name. Just one guy's opinion.
I agree...Maybe a video message? Unless they were asked and declined.
TheGameEpisode2
09-22-08, 10:47 AM
I heard that during the game Torre had a video message.
Not sure about Donnie though.
I didn't see Clemens in the montage.
Retire21
09-22-08, 10:56 AM
I didn't see Clemens in the montage.
I didn't either- I don't think he was in it as I would have remembered that.
BRNXBMRS
09-22-08, 11:02 AM
For me Clemens isnt a big deal, he wasnt a Yankee immortal. He came to NY to win a World Series after snubbing the Yanks for the BlueJays asa free agent.
I was shocked about Torre.
jeterdaman
09-22-08, 11:06 AM
I like to think that had the Dodgers had an offday or were playing in NY or Philly during the day yesterday, that he would have been invited and come to the ceremonies.
Pinstripedbass
09-22-08, 11:12 AM
They didn't ignore Clemens. He was in the pitcher's montage. I was kind of surprised and was thinking it would be very strange if he was there.
Before they started doing position by position there was an announcement about how the Yankee family is so extensive and how many members of the Yankee family couldn't be there because they are now a part of another team. To me, that was a "shoutout" of sorts to Torre and Donnie Baseball. Personally, I don't think they needed to do anything more than that.
Clemens was not mentioned in the montage. Pretty hypocritical. If they can mention Giambi, they should mention Clemens.
Personally, I'm ticked off that they didn't mention Mickey Rivers.
yanksrule69
09-22-08, 11:17 AM
I could have sworn they flashed Clemens and his #22 uniform during the pitchers. Guess I must be losing it!
Hobbes40
09-22-08, 11:48 AM
I thought they didn't really celebrate managers (well, I think all of the other great Yankees managers were mentioned, but either as players or as part of the "first team" thing in the beginning), so it wasn't a big deal that Torre wasn't mentioned. Also, it could go either way - maybe Torre didn't want to do it.
That being said, I was hoping that Torre and Mattingly would show up together...
RI Dawg
09-22-08, 12:03 PM
If it means anything, both Torre and Donnie had taped segments/interviews show on ESPN during the day's festivities, as well as during the "Farewell to the Cathedral" special which was shown on TV.
Clemens on the other hand, was mentioned over and over again when it came to the 2000 season and famous incidents with Piazza.
As for the actually physical pre-game stuff -- I wasn't at the game to say yes/no to if they had stuff aired on the video scoreboard, but honestly, who thought Torre would show up considering he is managing another team, who are in the middle of a playoff race and had a game that day...same goes to Donnie...
As for Clemens, maybe he was snubbed and say what you want about how he compares to other players regarding steroid allegations, but I personally don't mind that he wasn't there. I routed for him when he played for us no doubt, but his off-field antics and how he handled the numerous retire/not-retire shinanigans, and so on -- something about how he handled himself in the "spotlight" rubs me the wrong way...
Mantle'sMutt
09-22-08, 12:04 PM
For me Clemens isnt a big deal, he wasnt a Yankee immortal. He came to NY to win a World Series after snubbing the Yanks for the BlueJays asa free agent.
I was shocked about Torre.
Fully agree on Clemens. Torre had a game to manage. Asking him to come to the event while he is in a pennant race with the Dodgers would have been asking too much, IMHO. Sooner or later, though, they HAVE to honor Torre in some official way. Like some other Yankees, he is most appreciated after being gone.
As an aside, even my wife noticed that, try as they might, neither Joe Morgan nor Jon Miller could get Michael Kay to comment on the change from Torre to Girardi. I wonder if there is a standing order from YES not to dicuss Torre much. (?)
Yankees1962
09-22-08, 12:06 PM
Did they mentioned McCarthy and Huggins?
Mantle'sMutt
09-22-08, 12:09 PM
Did they mentioned McCarthy and Huggins?
Yes, and Casey. Come to think of it, they should have mentioned Torre more prominently.
Retire21
09-22-08, 12:10 PM
I don't remember managers being shown on the montage....... but really, if you're not going to require Torre's presence, all the great managers have passed away anyway, so maybe they did not include managers for the montage due to no one being alive/available. It seemed every other position had at least a few representatives.
*EDIT* my esteemed Yankee poster above says they did include managers. Nevermind.
It was mentioned on the ESPN blog that O'Neill and Brosius got the loudest ovations. Is that true? I saw Bernie and Tino's ovation, and they seemed pretty loud. :)
Mantle'sMutt
09-22-08, 12:13 PM
I don't remember managers being shown on the montage....... but really, if you're not going to require Torre's presence, all the great managers have passed away anyway, so maybe they did not include managers for the montage due to no one being alive/available. It seemed every other position had at least a few representatives.
*EDIT* my esteemed Yankee poster above says they did include managers. Nevermind.
It was mentioned on the ESPN blog that O'Neill and Brosius got the loudest ovations. Is that true? I saw Bernie and Tino's ovation, and they seemed pretty loud. :)
If I recall correctly, Hugiins was announced as manager of the 1923 team, while McCarthy and Stengel were honored with live "stand-ins".
yankeebot
09-22-08, 12:22 PM
Clemens was painfully ignored which I find a little petty. Torre was a little more "creatively" snubbed. Huggins, McCarthy and Stengal were all introduced with the 1923 team actors, Martin as a player and Girardi as, well, Girardi. Torre should have gotten some recognition somehow.
Nettles
09-22-08, 12:22 PM
I am not too troubled about leaving out Clemens, considering his public persona these days. However, I disagree with those who discount the contribution he gave to the team. We would not have won in 2000 without him. And the pennants in '01 and '03 were also won with his help.
As to Torre, he will have his richly deserved special day when the right time comes. You all know that!
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PeteRFNY
09-22-08, 12:33 PM
Screw Clemens. As for Torre, he was in a video message, correct?
After a night like that, it's kind of silly to start picking apart who was and wasn't part of the ceremony. That's like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet and complaining that there were no olives.
Relax. Enjoy. Sheesh.
yankeebot
09-22-08, 12:35 PM
I love olives. :(
Pat2390
09-22-08, 12:35 PM
I didnt see Clemens either.I was kind of thinking maybe Jimmy Key and Wetteland should have been mentioned. I apologize if they were and i missed it. Both meant more then Jesse Barfield did.
35Knucklecurve
09-22-08, 12:35 PM
Fully agree on Clemens. Torre had a game to manage. Asking him to come to the event while he is in a pennant race with the Dodgers would have been asking too much, IMHO. Sooner or later, though, they HAVE to honor Torre in some official way. Like some other Yankees, he is most appreciated after being gone.
As an aside, even my wife noticed that, try as they might, neither Joe Morgan nor Jon Miller could get Michael Kay to comment on the change from Torre to Girardi. I wonder if there is a standing order from YES not to dicuss Torre much. (?)
I noticed that too - Kay would just continue with the play-by-play as soon as Morgan or Miller finished - as if he didn't hear what either of them said. He did it more than once, so I don't think it was an oversight. It was probably the only time I was actually paying attention to what Kay was saying - I wanted to hear his opinion.
I agree 100% - at some point, they have to give Torre his due. I think that maybe one day, he'll have his place in Monument Park. It would have been nice to see his video shown during the rest of the pre-game ceremonies when just about everybody was tuned in.
Pat2390
09-22-08, 12:37 PM
Stadium was busy, did i miss the Torre video also? Wow! i wasnt even drinking.
Retire21
09-22-08, 12:37 PM
Screw Clemens. As for Torre, he was in a video message, correct?
After a night like that, it's kind of silly to start picking apart who was and wasn't part of the ceremony. That's like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet and complaining that there were no olives.
Relax. Enjoy. Sheesh.
Well, I started the thread, so I feel I should respond. Last night was amazing- the Yankee organization did a fabulous job with that ceremony- much, MUCH better than the schmaltzy Fox All-Star game ceremony.
The only reason I brought up the Clemens and Torre thing were because 1. I didn't see the whole ceremony, so I guess I was asking more than anything, and 2. Pete mentioned on his blog that he was listening to a radio call-in show and Torre's absence was mentioned. Some media outlets brought up Clemens absence, too.
Not trying to stir up trouble- I thought last night as picture perfect.
Mantle'sMutt
09-22-08, 12:38 PM
Screw Clemens. As for Torre, he was in a video message, correct?
After a night like that, it's kind of silly to start picking apart who was and wasn't part of the ceremony. That's like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet and complaining that there were no olives.
Relax. Enjoy. Sheesh.
Never underestimate the furor generated when no black olives are provided. Green, okay, but black? Can no happen. ;)
What video message, Pete? The montage? If Torre was on that, I missed it completely (though he WAS shown in one of the ESPN montages), but then they way they failed to show the jumbotron on TV half of the time, it could well have been seen at the Stadium, but not at home.
I, too, agree that EVERYONE can't be mentioned, but a manager that delivered that kind of playoff run and World Championships is no bit player.
Retire21
09-22-08, 12:38 PM
I didnt see Clemens either.I was kind of thinking maybe Jimmy Key and Wetteland should have been mentioned. I apologize if they were and i missed it. Both meant more then Jesse Barfield did.
Wetteland was and I'm pretty sure Key was mentioned, too.
35Knucklecurve
09-22-08, 12:42 PM
Wetteland was and I'm pretty sure Key was mentioned, too.
They were both included in the montage - very, very quickly.
Pat2390
09-22-08, 12:45 PM
They were both included in the montage - very, very quickly. Thank you guys, I saw wetteland in the Montage, but i think they should have been singled out, like Barfield, Henderson, etc... Maybe its because Yanks RFers dont compare to our pitchers over years. Guess Rickey gets in since he is still our all time leader in sb's.
NYYfan24
09-22-08, 03:04 PM
They showed Clemens & the Piazza bat throwing incident in the montage. That was all I saw of Clemens.
Mean Linguine
09-22-08, 03:30 PM
Didn't think Clemens' name was included in the ceremony. Which is fine, but implicated steroid/HGH users Pettitte and Knoblauch and Giambi were in there.
And they didn't have a category for past managers in the montage, did they?
Some strange choices at pitcher in general. Ed Figueroa and Al Downing.
Pinstripedbass
09-22-08, 04:12 PM
Didn't think Clemens' name was included in the ceremony. Which is fine, but implicated steroid/HGH users Pettitte and Knoblauch and Giambi were in there.
And they didn't have a category for past managers in the montage, did they?
Some strange choices at pitcher in general. Ed Figueroa and Al Downing.
At least Ed Figueroa won 20 games for us. Al Downing was a head scratcher.
And could somebody please remind me of the significance of Jesse Barfield to the Yankees.
Andy used it once to recover from an injury, before it was illegal (I believe).
Ain't like he was a steroid junky.
The Q Bomb
09-22-08, 04:30 PM
No way Torre could come, even if The Dodgers weren't in a pennant race. He's got a job and that's to manage his team to a win every day. I didn't think of it until I saw this thread, but I am surprised that Torre wasn't mentioned in the montage, speeches, or whatever. He should have been.
I believe both Mattingly and Righetti said they would loved to have attended but are working for other major league teams with duties they needed to perform on that day and could not make it.
Retire21
09-22-08, 04:36 PM
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/the-yankees-snub-joe-torre/index.html?ref=baseball
http://web.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080520&content_id=1443605&vkey=1 (http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/the-yankees-snub-joe-torre/index.html?ref=baseball)
Mean Linguine
09-22-08, 04:58 PM
At least Ed Figueroa won 20 games for us. Al Downing was a head scratcher.
And could somebody please remind me of the significance of Jesse Barfield to the Yankees.
Forgot about Barfield. That was very surprising, too.
Mantle'sMutt
09-22-08, 07:25 PM
Forgot about Barfield. That was very surprising, too.
They are still trying to justify the Leiter trade. ;)
Bostonsfavson
09-22-08, 07:43 PM
Screw Clemens. As for Torre, he was in a video message, correct?
After a night like that, it's kind of silly to start picking apart who was and wasn't part of the ceremony. That's like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet and complaining that there were no olives.
Relax. Enjoy. Sheesh.
^-Unnecessary.
Anyways, that pregame ceremony was fantastic, but the exclusion of Torre and Clemens was just classless. I didn't expect either one to be at the stadium, but not even mentioning Torre or showing Clemens in the montage of pitchers? There's really no excuse for that, and I'm very disappointed in the person(s) responsible for making the decision to exclude them. I would love to hear the reasoning behind Clemens, especially. If it's about steroids, then the hypocrisy is disgusting. Are they mad about the relatively terrible investment they made in him last year? For shame, Yankees. For shame. Those two omissions, along with the people who booed A-Rod, were the only blemishes on an otherwise wonderful night.
bronxboy
09-22-08, 09:44 PM
I was there and I don't remember any message from Torre, altho maybe I missed it, he had a game to manage in LA, bit I am pissed Mattingly couldn't be there, because that is where he performed, he should have asked for the day off and came, no excuses.......
There is no excuse, none zero, for not including Torre. Of course I don't expect him to be there given his managerial situation and the fact that his team is at least going to the playoffs. However, certainly his name should have been mentioned and he should have been shown in videos. How can one look at the record achieved under Torre of wins, championships, and post season appearances and think for one second that his name doesn't deserve to be mentioned prominently? For a classy organization that was totally and completely classless and ignorant.
b_joseph
09-23-08, 12:03 AM
Clemens being ignored annoyed me a lot. Like it or not, the masses view him as a Yankee and he had to be mentioned, IMO.
__starr69
09-23-08, 01:34 AM
Pettitte had to be honored. Not only is he on the current roster, but he was the starting pitcher for the game!
bronxboy
09-23-08, 05:35 AM
No way Torre could come, even if The Dodgers weren't in a pennant race. He's got a job and that's to manage his team to a win every day. I didn't think of it until I saw this thread, but I am surprised that Torre wasn't mentioned in the montage, speeches, or whatever. He should have been.
I believe both Mattingly and Righetti said they would loved to have attended but are working for other major league teams with duties they needed to perform on that day and could not make it.
Righetti being a pitching coach I can understand, but Donnie could have taken a day off and come, he did;t try hard enough IMO....no excuse...
jeterdaman
09-23-08, 09:59 AM
Righetti being a pitching coach I can understand, but Donnie could have taken a day off and come, he did;t try hard enough IMO....no excuse...
1. How do you know he "didn't try hard enough"
2. He is employed by another team and was working that night.
I'm sure if all things had worked out and he had an off day then he would have gone, but to be pissed that he didn't leave his other team when they are trying to win their division is just arrogant.
Righetti being a pitching coach I can understand, but Donnie could have taken a day off and come, he did;t try hard enough IMO....no excuse...
he is hitting coach of another organization fighting for a pennant, you expect him to fly across country. and it's ok Righetti didn't make it because he is a picthing coach( for a team 100 games out of the playoffs) but Mattingly a hitting coach didn't try hard enough in your opinion.
LizrdKng67
09-23-08, 10:30 AM
he is hitting coach of another organization fighting for a pennant, you expect him to fly across country. and it's ok Righetti didn't make it because he is a picthing coach( for a team 100 games out of the playoffs) but Mattingly a hitting coach didn't try hard enough in your opinion.
I am assuming (and you know what happens when you assume) that the November ceremony will include all of the former Yankees who still have jobs throughout baseball. If Torre is snubbed then, I will be really disappointed.
Mr. Mxylsplk
09-23-08, 10:44 AM
he did;t try hard enough IMO....no excuse...
What does this even mean? How hard did he try, how do you know how hard he tried, and exactly what would have constituted trying hard enough?
steveatrich
09-23-08, 10:56 AM
Righetti being a pitching coach I can understand, but Donnie could have taken a day off and come, he did;t try hard enough IMO....no excuse...
The assumption is he wanted to come. He was rejected for the manager's position.
Pat2390
09-23-08, 11:05 AM
Im assuming the poster that stated Mattingly didnt try "hard enough" either forgot or didnt realize Don reassumed his spot on the bench w Torre. He probably thought he was still in the "office" spot he had when he stepped down due to his personal situation.
bronxboy
09-23-08, 12:46 PM
he is hitting coach of another organization fighting for a pennant, you expect him to fly across country. and it's ok Righetti didn't make it because he is a picthing coach( for a team 100 games out of the playoffs) but Mattingly a hitting coach didn't try hard enough in your opinion.sorry but a hitting coach can take a day off and not be missed, the only reason I can see is he was turned down by LA, and that would be classless, didn't Roberts and Lowe make it to the Sox ring ceremony and they were active players on other teams so don't tell me the hitting coach can't get a day off....baloney...and you're right the Jints are 100 games out so Rags should have made it there as well.....I don;t mean to sound bitter, I;m not it was a once in a lifetime and i will take the memory to my grave....AWESOME
bronxboy
09-23-08, 12:51 PM
Im assuming the poster that stated Mattingly didnt try "hard enough" either forgot or didnt realize Don reassumed his spot on the bench w Torre. He probably thought he was still in the "office" spot he had when he stepped down due to his personal situation. is he the bench coach or the hitting instructor?? and yes I do expect him to fly in, it wouldn't have hurt LA in the least....i think Joe could have gotten along W/o him for 2 days??!!!
Apparently Clemes was upset about this. He cant possibly expect with everything going on that they would show him.
bronxboy
09-23-08, 01:00 PM
Torre was shown, he was shown popping out of the dugout to watch, I think Charlie Hayes catch the last out in 96....I saw him for about a half a second!!!!
bad, real bad, Yanks dropped the ball there
Mr. Mxylsplk
09-23-08, 01:00 PM
sorry but a hitting coach can take a day off and not be missed, the only reason I can see is he was turned down by LA, and that would be classless, didn't Roberts and Lowe make it to the Sox ring ceremony and they were active players on other teams so don't tell me the hitting coach can't get a day off....baloney...and you're right the Jints are 100 games out so Rags should have made it there as well.....
is he the bench coach or the hitting instructor?? and yes I do expect him to fly in, it wouldn't have hurt LA in the least
You still haven't answered the question. How hard did Mattingly try to come? How hard did Rags try to come? How much harder should they have tried to come? Did the yanks even contact them and ask them to come?
jeterdaman
09-23-08, 02:38 PM
sorry but a hitting coach can take a day off and not be missed, the only reason I can see is he was turned down by LA, and that would be classless, didn't Roberts and Lowe make it to the Sox ring ceremony and they were active players on other teams so don't tell me the hitting coach can't get a day off....baloney...and you're right the Jints are 100 games out so Rags should have made it there as well.....I don;t mean to sound bitter, I;m not it was a once in a lifetime and i will take the memory to my grave....AWESOME
So the fact that a man can take pride in his work and respect his current employer is somehow a negative to you? Interesting.
Also, regarding Roberts and Lowe, if I remember correctly Lowe wasn't pitching that day and had permission to go as it was a complete offday for him and Roberts was on the DL at the time.
There were a lot of players on teams that won championships that weren't on the team the next year and they usually got their rings either privately or the next time they were on the road and visting their former team.
PeteRFNY
09-23-08, 03:45 PM
^-Unnecessary.
How so? Clemens screwed the Yankees in two of the worst ways possible: first with his phony "retirement" (which cost the Yankees a draft pick), then by being a blatant, front-page non-apologetic liar tied to the organization (notice you never hear him referred to as "ex-Red Sock" or "ex-Blue Jay" or "ex-Astro" Clemens). Where's the hypocrisy? Obviously the Yankees are pissed that he made them look foolish.
Knoblauch (who wasn't there) and Giambi have made their transgressions. One has kept to himself, and the other (no matter how half-assed) apologized, for what it was worth. Neither swore in a hearing that they were as pure as the newly-driven snow.
For every person wagging a finger at the Yankees for not "including" Clemens, ask yourself this: if you threw a huge party and while going through the list of potential invitees you saw someone that you had no desire in seeing for the fear that they would ruin the event (we'll call this person "Drunken Larry"). Do you invite this person even though you's rather have bamboo crammed in your toenails than see this person? How do you react when everyone that "knows better" walks up to you asking where "Drunken Larry" is? You tell everyone, "I didn't want him here - if that's not good enough for you, tough".
In my opinion, not having Clemens there was a PLUS. The sight of him makes me wretch, and the last thing you want on an emotional night of farewells and tears is a reverse-peristaltic avalanche of roller-coaster-like proportions.
jeterdaman
09-23-08, 03:50 PM
I think the biggest snub was simply not including him in the list of all time pitchers. He contributed greatly to two championships and that shouldn't be ignored.
While i'm sure you want to "wretch", you wouldn't give up those 2 championships for anything. I know I wouldn't.
OCYankFan
09-23-08, 04:37 PM
I can understand Joe Torre not being there, as he has a team to manage. That said, I thought they gave him very short shrift, showing just a fleeting image of him in the moment of one of the WS wins. While we're on the subject of managers, would it have killed them to have mentioned Ralph Houk?
But for Donnie Baseball not to be there in person was a disgrace. I don't care what the excuse is, or who's making it. He belonged there. If Bernie Williams can show up, so can Mattingly. It wasn't about any lingering ill feelings between the player and the front office, it was about the stadium, its players and their fans. It was the stadium and its fans that Mattingly showed up by not attending, not the Steinbrenner family.
I can't imagine that it would have been because either the field management or executive management of the LA Dodgers would not allow him to go. If there is another team who reveres its history anywhere near as much as the Yankees do, it's the Dodgers, so Torre, McCourt and co. would have certainly understood and appreciated the magnitude of the occasion, and why DM should be a part of it. I can't imagine them denying Mattingly the time to go to the YS ceremony.
Ironically, they could have included Torre, Mattingly and Righetti in a single video clip, if they had chosen to. The Giants were visiting LA that day, so all three of them were in one place. A short, 60-second shout-out to the assembled fans wouldn't have ruined any part of the ceremony, and would have given the fans a chance to give them a tribute similar to those who were introduced in person. It also would have sidestepped issues like "too many first baseman", "too many pitchers", or "where are former managers supposed to stand?".
Clemens, on the other hand, was omitted for his own benefit, in my opinion. The Yankee organization probably expected that any introduction of him would have been accompanied by boos, and he would have been the only one to get booed during the ceremony. So, to avoid the embarrassment that would have befallen both Clemens and the organization, they just glossed over him. Considering the high bar they set for inclusion on the mound - one either had to have pitched a perfect game (Larsen, Cone, Wells) or have been a career Yankee with a retired number (Ford, Guidry) - there would have been no room on that hill for Roger,anyway.
hellonewman
09-23-08, 05:20 PM
Personally, I'm ticked off that they didn't mention Mickey Rivers.I thought that was strange, too.
fredgmuggs
09-23-08, 05:27 PM
I thought that was strange, too.I didn't get too wrapped up with who they mentioned or didn't mention. Oh I knew they would bring out the usual A-list Headliners for the occasion, but I couldn't help thinking that every Yankee player from Jim Abbott to Paul Zuvella, well, they all deserved to be honored.
hellonewman
09-23-08, 05:31 PM
I didn't get too wrapped up with who they mentioned or didn't mention. Oh I knew they would bring out the usual A-list Headliners for the occasion, but I couldn't help thinking that every Yankee player from Jim Abbott to Paul Zuvella, well, they all deserved to be honored.Trust me, Paul Zuvella did NOT deserve to be honored. George Zeber, sure, but that's where I draw the line.
fredgmuggs
09-23-08, 05:36 PM
Trust me, Paul Zuvella did NOT deserve to be honored. George Zeber, sure, but that's where I draw the line.I'm not going to ask about Bill Zuber.
(by the way, Jim Abbott is shot in the dark... are there any Yankee players that come before him alphabetically?)
hellonewman
09-23-08, 05:43 PM
I'm not going to ask about Bill Zuber.
(by the way, Jim Abbott is shot in the dark... are there any Yankee players that come before him alphabetically?)No honors for Bill "Goober" Zuber.
Yes, Jim Abbott is 1st on the list.
azzurribaggio
09-23-08, 05:51 PM
Clemens was not mentioned in the montage. Pretty hypocritical. If they can mention Giambi, they should mention Clemens.
Personally, I'm ticked off that they didn't mention Mickey Rivers.
WOW yeah, where was Mick the quick? He was there for Old-Timers day....
cajunyankee
09-23-08, 07:18 PM
The Yankees would have had to displace about 2.3 paying fans (prime ticket season holders) in order to seat every former player + guest mentioned in this thread. That's a lot of cabbage to spoil with 2009 ticket sales right around the corner.
The boys putting together the commemorative DVD will splice in some footage of all the near-greats. They should be happy enough with that.
Mantle'sMutt
09-23-08, 08:37 PM
No honors for Bill "Goober" Zuber.
Yes, Jim Abbott is 1st on the list.
Bill, who played for both the Yanks and the Red Sox, was a great guy who knew my father and grandfather well. After his playing days, he opened a restaurant called Zuber's Dugout in the Amana Colonies (Homestead, Iowa) which just closed in 2006 (Zuber died in '82). The place had Yankee logos and memorabilia all over the place. Autographed pictures and baseballs and hats and other stuff of not only legendary Yankees like Babe, Mickey, Joe D., Whitey, and Yogi, but also Ted Williams, Joe Louis, Johnny Unitas, Red Grange, ...the works. It was a baseball and sports shrine and the placemats and napkins had Yankee top hat logos and the menus were round like a baseball!
I had many nice memories of eating there as a kid with my family in the old German "please pass the bottomless bowls" serving style, along side a three inch steak or a plate of wiener schnitzel (breaded veal)! Given that Zuber kept the Yankee tradition going in the middle of nowhere with his restaurant and huge billboard signs on the highways plastered with Yankee logos for almost 60 years, maybe he should have been mentioned. ;);)
fredgmuggs
09-23-08, 08:39 PM
Bill, who played for both the Yanks and the Red Sox, was a great guy who knew my father and grandfather well. After his playing days, he opened a restaurant called Zuber's Dugout in the Amana Colonies (Homestead, Iowa) which just closed in 2006 (Zuber died in '82). The place had Yankee logos and memorabilia all over the place. Autographed pictures and baseballs and hats and other stuff of not only legendary Yankees like Babe, Mickey, Joe D., Whitey, and Yogi, but also Ted Williams, Joe Louis, Johnny Unitas, Red Grange, ...the works. It was a baseball and sports shrine and the placemats and napkins had Yankee top hat logos and the menus were round like a baseball!
I had many nice memories of eating there as a kid with my family in the old German "please pass the bottomless bowls" serving style along side a three inch steak! Given that Zuber kept the Yankee tradition going in the middle of nowhere with his restaurant for almost 60 years, maybe he should have been mentioned. ;);)That's a great story... and that's why I love this site. You meet the coolest people with the most interesting stories,
Thanks for sharing that, MM.
4bronxbombers
09-23-08, 08:42 PM
Bill, who played for both the Yanks and the Red Sox, was a great guy who knew my father and grandfather well. After his playing days, he opened a restaurant called Zuber's Dugout in the Amana Colonies (Homestead, Iowa) which just closed in 2006 (Zuber died in '82). The place had Yankee logos and memorabilia all over the place. Autographed pictures and baseballs and hats and other stuff of not only legendary Yankees like Babe, Mickey, Joe D., Whitey, and Yogi, but also Ted Williams, Joe Louis, Johnny Unitas, Red Grange, ...the works. It was a baseball and sports shrine and the placemats and napkins had Yankee top hat logos and the menus were round like a baseball!
I had many nice memories of eating there as a kid with my family in the old German "please pass the bottomless bowls" serving style, along side a three inch steak or a plate of wiener schnitzel (breaded veal)! Given that Zuber kept the Yankee tradition going in the middle of nowhere with his restaurant and huge billboard signs on the highways plastered with Yankee logos for almost 60 years, maybe he should have been mentioned. ;);)
What a great story and what a great memory for you! And in Iowa yet. :) I wonder what they did with all the memorabilia.
stephsamps
09-23-08, 09:19 PM
I definitely think that Torre was snubbed. The other prominent managers were mentioned, either as players or by those actors playing players. It could not have been an oversight and really reflects badly on a very classy organization.
While I understand why they didn't include Roger (the boos), given that they mentioned Knobby, I think he should have been included.
Mantle'sMutt
09-23-08, 09:21 PM
That's a great story... and that's why I love this site. You meet the coolest people with the most interesting stories,
Thanks for sharing that, MM.
Glad to hear it was well received, Fred(?). I grew up in Iowa, but I cannot remember NOT being a Yankee fan. I always figured it was because my dad gave me a Mickey Mantle bat when I was about 5 years old (he was a big time Cardinal/The Man fan). After thinking back, I wonder if it wasn't going to Zuber's a WEE lad and being impressed by the decidedly Yankee atmosphere that started me in Yankee fandom. :)
Mantle'sMutt
09-23-08, 09:34 PM
What a great story and what a great memory for you! And in Iowa yet. :) I wonder what they did with all the memorabilia.
My mother still lives near there and I will inquire again. Around the time that the restaurant closed, word was that it would be turned into an Inn or something by the family and the memorabilia was in limbo. There was some damn near pricelees stuff there, I can tell you. Being in the middle of the country on the way to somewhere, and known for good food and friendly atmosphere, it was visited by all manner and means of folks from dirt common to world famous in every walk of life - though only the upper crust were invited to leave their mark behind. ;)
Bill Zuber was kind of a quiet guy until later in the evening after a few steins flowed where he "held court" for many years. A really nice guy.
bronxboy
09-23-08, 10:28 PM
You still haven't answered the question. How hard did Mattingly try to come? How hard did Rags try to come? How much harder should they have tried to come? Did the yanks even contact them and ask them to come? it would be amazingly stupid if the Yankees didn't contact him, and I believe he asked the dodgers said no and he said ok, i think it would have been important for him to be there and he could have w/o a disruption to the dodgers.....and i don;t know how hard they tried, do you?
If Lowe and Roberts could leave their teams for a day, thereby I guess disrespecting their teammates for a ring they could have gotten in the mail, then donnie could have appeared, there is NO other game no other time to make an appearence,,,,like I said my anger is not with Donnie as much as LA because I can;t believe they would have said no,,,,,we agree to disagree on this one
bronxboy
09-23-08, 10:34 PM
I can understand Joe Torre not being there, as he has a team to manage. That said, I thought they gave him very short shrift, showing just a fleeting image of him in the moment of one of the WS wins. While we're on the subject of managers, would it have killed them to have mentioned Ralph Houk?
But for Donnie Baseball not to be there in person was a disgrace. I don't care what the excuse is, or who's making it. He belonged there. If Bernie Williams can show up, so can Mattingly. It wasn't about any lingering ill feelings between the player and the front office, it was about the stadium, its players and their fans. It was the stadium and its fans that Mattingly showed up by not attending, not the Steinbrenner family.
I can't imagine that it would have been because either the field management or executive management of the LA Dodgers would not allow him to go. If there is another team who reveres its history anywhere near as much as the Yankees do, it's the Dodgers, so Torre, McCourt and co. would have certainly understood and appreciated the magnitude of the occasion, and why DM should be a part of it. I can't imagine them denying Mattingly the time to go to the YS ceremony.
Ironically, they could have included Torre, Mattingly and Righetti in a single video clip, if they had chosen to. The Giants were visiting LA that day, so all three of them were in one place. A short, 60-second shout-out to the assembled fans wouldn't have ruined any part of the ceremony, and would have given the fans a chance to give them a tribute similar to those who were introduced in person. It also would have sidestepped issues like "too many first baseman", "too many pitchers", or "where are former managers supposed to stand?".
Clemens, on the other hand, was omitted for his own benefit, in my opinion. The Yankee organization probably expected that any introduction of him would have been accompanied by boos, and he would have been the only one to get booed during the ceremony. So, to avoid the embarrassment that would have befallen both Clemens and the organization, they just glossed over him. Considering the high bar they set for inclusion on the mound - one either had to have pitched a perfect game (Larsen, Cone, Wells) or have been a career Yankee with a retired number (Ford, Guidry) - there would have been no room on that hill for Roger,anyway.thank you at least somebody gets what i was trying to say about donnie, albeit much more eloquently than me,,,,,if he asked to go would the dodgers have said no? donnie could have taped something.....
yankswn23
09-24-08, 03:08 PM
Im suprised we didnt see a tribute to Lou Pinella or did I miss that too.. i also thought they could have honored some of the past managers as well, however alot of the managers/coaches they did honor wer former players
CharmedForever61
09-24-08, 09:27 PM
Torre's name should've been mentioned anyway because he was one of the reasons why the Yanks were such a winning team back in the 90s.
Roberto Kelly
09-24-08, 10:28 PM
Im suprised we didnt see a tribute to Lou Pinella or did I miss that too.. i also thought they could have honored some of the past managers as well, however alot of the managers/coaches they did honor wer former players
Piniella was mentioned w/ the Rfs.
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