View Full Version : Yankees explore deal for Reds' Dunn
Bleacher_Creature
07-25-08, 03:13 PM
Even with the trading deadline less than a week away, the Reds have had very little action on Adam Dunn. But one club that spoke with the Reds says the Yankees have explored what it would take to plug Dunn into their revolving outfield/DH vacancies.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=mlb_trade_deadline&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fname%3dmlb_trade_deadline
TheGameEpisode2
07-25-08, 03:14 PM
Tasty.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 03:17 PM
Love the power numbers & OBP, hate the career average & strikeout tendencies. How's his defense?
I'm for this trade depending on who we're giving up.
Bleacher_Creature
07-25-08, 03:19 PM
Love the power numbers & OBP, hate the career average & strikeout tendencies. How's his defense?
I'm for this trade depending on who we're giving up.
Would be better at DH.
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 03:20 PM
Love the power numbers & OBP, hate the career average & strikeout tendencies. How's his defense?
I'm for this trade depending on who we're giving up.
His defense is awful to be kind but probably no worse than Matsui.
Two top prospects for 2.5 months sounds expensive, depends on who the prospects are but I'd love to get Dunn with that short porch to shoot at. Mind you unlike some other options that have been discussed (Holliday, Bay, Nady mostly) Dunn is a FA at the end of this year.
Yanks21
07-25-08, 03:20 PM
How's his defense?
Not good...
Realistically, he should be a DH in the AL...
Ynkcpt23
07-25-08, 03:23 PM
Not good...
Realistically, he should be a DH in the AL...
That's the only option. Dunn is Canseco-esque in the OF. Painful to watch. If they give up anything decent for him it will be a waste IMO.
webassign
07-25-08, 03:23 PM
Noooooooooooo
Noooooooooooo
Amusingly enough, I'd bet a million bucks that Dunn would out-hit Bonds if they were both plugged into the Yankees lineup next week. It wouldn't be close. He would also provide better defense.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 03:25 PM
He's 0-1 in the All Star Game. Offer the Reds Igawa & Karstens only.
Ynkcpt23
07-25-08, 03:25 PM
Noooooooooooo
:lol:
webassign
07-25-08, 03:25 PM
Amusingly enough, I'd bet a million bucks that Dunn would out-hit Bonds if they were both plugged into the Yankees lineup next week. It wouldn't be close. He would also provide better defense.
DH plays defense? News to me.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 03:27 PM
I don't like Adam Dunn at all, so unless we're trading a paper bag (aka Kei Igawa) for him, I'm not interested.
DH plays defense? News to me.
Fair enough, I'll take the bat and the personality
Tyler Durden
07-25-08, 03:33 PM
I don't like Adam Dunn at all, so unless we're trading a paper bag (aka Kei Igawa) for him, I'm not interested.
Agreed.
I'm so sick of seeing logjams at DH with this team.
Mr. Mxylsplk
07-25-08, 03:36 PM
I'm so sick of seeing logjams at DH with this team.
With Posada and Matsui likely done for the year, do we really have a logjam anymore?
themgmt
07-25-08, 03:38 PM
His defense isn't that bad. I'm not a fan but I wouldn't be carrying a pitchfork in protest either.
Bat him 7th
sabermet prospectus
07-25-08, 03:38 PM
Dont expect the fools who think batting average and strikout totals are important to get excited about dunn.
But me personally I would love him on the team.
Cheesyhoboe
07-25-08, 03:38 PM
I know the .OBP and the .SLG and blah blah blah, but I really don't like someone whose career RISP is .220.
When Dunn is hitting 50 home runs for us...you won't be complaining about a logjam...
teknetic
07-25-08, 03:39 PM
I don't even know. His defense and whiffage rate make my balls hurt, but his OBP and power give me a tingle. But if I clamored for Bonds, I guess I should be jumping on the Dunn bandwagon; then again Bonds wouldn't cost prospects and would make pennies.
Bonds also hasn't played a baseball game in 10 months, he's in his early 40s and has multiple major injuries in recent years. Expecting him to be in game shape before sometime in September is being a bit overly optimistic.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 03:43 PM
Dont expect the fools who think batting average and strikout totals are important to get excited about dunn.
But me personally I would love him on the team.
The fools? Really? You're insulting people here, that's funny.
Strikeout totals aren't important in the slightest bit? Ok. Power numbers are great but you think a top prospect & a 2nd tier one is worth a .240 career hitter who nearly Ks 200 times a year?
sabermet prospectus
07-25-08, 03:46 PM
The fools? Really? You're insulting people here, that's funny.
Strikeout totals aren't important in the slightest bit? Ok. Power numbers are great but you think a top prospect & a 2nd tier one is worth a .240 career hitter who nearly Ks 200 times a year?
For a guy with a career .903 ops ? Hell yes. I would trade anybody but hughes. And its not just power numbers. Its power numbers and he gets on base a ton.
And yes strikeouts are real important. I wouldnt want mantle or reggie jackson on my team either with all those hugh strikout totals.Ryan howard either.
teknetic
07-25-08, 03:47 PM
Bonds also hasn't played a baseball game in 10 months, he's in his early 40s and has multiple major injuries in recent years. Expecting him to be in game shape before sometime in September is being a bit overly optimistic.
Not breaking news here. He'd be an improvement over what we've been tossing out there lately.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerHitChart?categoryId=85502
nuff said...
yankeesrule2000
07-25-08, 03:49 PM
:rockin::rockin::rockin:
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 03:49 PM
The fools? Really? You're insulting people here, that's funny.
Strikeout totals aren't important in the slightest bit? Ok. Power numbers are great but you think a top prospect & a 2nd tier one is worth a .240 career hitter who nearly Ks 200 times a year?
I understand both side but agree with you that the fools comment is out of line. For his combo of power and walks I'd take him happily, ks and all.
Now the question of what top tier and what 2nd teir prospect would be going to Cinncy for 2.5 months of Adam Dunn would probably make me say no thanks but I'd at least want to excahnge names with the Reds on this one. They are going no where with Dunn, they can go nowhere without him. Now he's going to be type-A so the Reds won't give him away in pure salary dump.
teknetic
07-25-08, 03:50 PM
For a guy with a career .903 ops ? Hell yes. I would trade anybody but hughes. And its not just power numbers. Its power numbers and he gets on base a ton.
And yes strikeouts are real important. I wouldnt want mantle or reggie jackson on my team either with all those hugh strikout totals.Ryan howard either.
You'd trade the overrated Austin Jackson (PS; still feel that way?) for a DH? That's nice.
I don't think it's unreasonable for Cincinnati to ask for a package centered around a premium prospect for a solid run-producer like Dunn, but I don't think the Yankees will agree to include any of the prospects the Reds will want, so ... I am not expecting this deal to happen.
Tyler Durden
07-25-08, 03:51 PM
With Posada and Matsui likely done for the year, do we really have a logjam anymore?
I guess I just don't like the idea of giving up prospects for such a one-dimensional player like Dunn.
sabermet prospectus
07-25-08, 03:51 PM
You'd trade the overrated Austin Jackson (PS; still feel that way?) for a DH? That's nice.
Yes I would. And yes I do.
I don't think it's unreasonable for Cincinnati to ask for a package centered around a premium prospect for a solid run-producer like Dunn, but I don't think the Yankees will agree to include any of the prospects the Reds will want, so ... I am not expecting this deal to happen.
Maybe one solid prospect and another mid-level prospect, but only if we were going to sign Dunn to an extension.
metalboy15
07-25-08, 03:53 PM
Pros:
- Career OPS+ of 131. 142 this year.
- "Just" 28 years old.
- Could take advantage of short porch.
- BB% of 20.3% this year.
Cons:
- Would take top prospect(s) to land him.
- Below average defensive LF (FRAA's of -11, -13 and -17 the last 3 years, +7 this year though).
- Nothing more than a 1B/DH from now on.
Thoughts?
teknetic
07-25-08, 03:55 PM
Yes I would. And yes I do.
I don't think I've seen you explain why you feel Jackson is overrated, so explain away. It'll be even more interesting after the month he's put up and establishing himself as a top 15 prospect.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 03:55 PM
Yes I would. And yes I do.
Name a package that you think is fair value for Dunn. Try to do it without insulting those that don't think like you this time.
I guess I just don't like the idea of giving up prospects for such a one-dimensional player like Dunn.
Dunn's one dimension is producing runs. If you've got to pick one dimension, that's probably one of the best choices.
sabermet prospectus
07-25-08, 03:57 PM
Name a package that you think is fair value for Dunn. Try to do it without insulting those that don't think like you this time.
Kennedy and jackson would be the absolute most I would give up for dunn. But If those two could land texiera then I would rather get him.
Dannman103
07-25-08, 03:58 PM
More home runs through his first 8 seasons than Ted Williams...
More home runs through his first 8 seasons than Ted Williams...
well of course he's better than some old red sox guy...
sweet_lou_14
07-25-08, 03:59 PM
Pros:
- Career OPS+ of 131. 142 this year.
- "Just" 28 years old.
- Could take advantage of short porch.
- BB% of 20.3% this year.
Cons:
- Would take top prospect(s) to land him.
- Below average defensive LF (FRAA's of -11, -13 and -17 the last 3 years, +7 this year though).
- Nothing more than a 1B/DH from now on.
Thoughts?
Only one important fact you left out ... contract size and length? That would make a big difference one way or the other for me.
metalboy15
07-25-08, 04:00 PM
Only one important fact you left out ... contract size and length? That would make a big difference one way or the other for me.
He's a FA after the season.
Only one important fact you left out ... contract size and length? That would make a big difference one way or the other for me.
13 mil...free agent at year's end.
sabermet prospectus
07-25-08, 04:00 PM
Dunn's one dimension is producing runs. If you've got to pick one dimension, that's probably one of the best choices.
Hes really not even one dimensional because most people would consider getting on base and hitting for power as two different dimensions but the problem is that people think average is more important then obp so theyd rather have an ichiro and his cheap hits and high average but with a lesser obp then adam dunn.
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 04:02 PM
Only one important fact you left out ... contract size and length? That would make a big difference one way or the other for me.
Adam Dunn of
2 years/$18.5M (2006-07), plus $13M 2008 club option
Cincinnati exercised $13M 2008 option 10/31/07
re-signed 2/06, avoided arbitration ($8.95M-$7.1M)
06:$7.5M, 07:$10.5M, 08:$13M club option ($0.5M buyout)
2008 option may increase to $16M based on award bonuses
if club exercises 2008 option, Dunn receives full no-trade clause until 6/15/2008 & limited no-trade clause for the remainder of 2008 (allowing Dunn specify 10 clubs to which he would accept a trade)
2008 option voids if Dunn is traded before 2008
assignment bonus of $0.5M if traded
1 year/$4.6M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
1 year/$0.445M (2004), re-signed 3/04
1 year/$0.4M (2003) 3/03
agent: Brian Peters, Greg Genske
ML service: 6.074
Roughly $4.3 M for the rest of this year.
More home runs through his first 8 seasons than Ted Williams...
but, but... he strikes out so much.:)
So I feel like getting Dunn right now would be like adding David Justice back when we did. He'll come in...hit 20 more homers and drive in a bunch of runs in the middle of our lineup.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:04 PM
Sign me up. I've been pushing for him for a week now.
He is a MAJOR lineup upgrade any way you slice it.
Yankees1962
07-25-08, 04:04 PM
The Reds aren't going to give him away to save 4M.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 04:08 PM
He's a horrendous situational hitter, as we saw during the brief series in NY. Jeez, Dan freakin' Giese was striking him out easily in big spots. Why else would a power hitter be incapable of hitting sac-flies?
Personally, I'm just not a big fan of 3 outcome players.
SoCal Pinstriper
07-25-08, 04:08 PM
Would love to see Dunn here. He can be painful to watch when he is in a funk, but the numbers do not lie.
Huge upgrade.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:14 PM
Cincy is a hitter's park, but Dunn in YS will be even more dangerous. His power to right comes easy.
Snatch Catch
07-25-08, 04:15 PM
He's a FA after the season.
Which should be your biggest pro, metalboy.
TYPE A, MOFOS!
dabomb2045
07-25-08, 04:15 PM
I'd love to get him....as long as we dont have to include AJax.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:16 PM
Which should be your biggest pro, metalboy.
TYPE A, MOFOS!
Let's tell Kennedy to pack his bags!
Throw in Cox too
That is just as good as picks, if not better for the Reds.
He's a horrendous situational hitter, as we saw during the brief series in NY. Jeez, Dan freakin' Giese was striking him out easily in big spots. Why else would a power hitter be incapable of hitting sac-flies?
Personally, I'm just not a big fan of 3 outcome players.
He has a .951 OPS with runners in scoring position.
sweet_lou_14
07-25-08, 04:17 PM
Based on what I'm reading here, I'm for it.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:18 PM
He's a horrendous situational hitter, as we saw during the brief series in NY. Jeez, Dan freakin' Giese was striking him out easily in big spots. Why else would a power hitter be incapable of hitting sac-flies?
Personally, I'm just not a big fan of 3 outcome players.
Forget situational hitting. He can bring a lot to the table just by being penciled in the lineup.
Cheesyhoboe
07-25-08, 04:19 PM
He has a .951 OPS with runners in scoring position.
Walking is useless with RISP
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-25-08, 04:20 PM
I'd love to get him....as long as we dont have to include AJax.
Yes, I agree with this, although he is going to be an absolute disaster in LF at YS.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:20 PM
Walking is useless with RISP
Nothing more useless than a bases loaded walk.
Or a walk to advance men on 1st and 2nd, to 2nd and 3rd.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-25-08, 04:21 PM
Walking is useless with RISP
Very true, I've never seen a walk force in a run before.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:21 PM
Yes, I agree with this, although he is going to be an absolute disaster in LF at YS.
Dee Aich
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:21 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerHitChart?categoryId=85502
nuff said...
Besides the home run to left center, those all go out of yankee stadium too. im sick of people implying great american ballpark has something to do with dunns homer totals.
NelsonMuntz
07-25-08, 04:22 PM
Pros:
- Career OPS+ of 131. 142 this year.
- "Just" 28 years old.
- Could take advantage of short porch.
- BB% of 20.3% this year.
Cons:
- Would take top prospect(s) to land him.
- Below average defensive LF (FRAA's of -11, -13 and -17 the last 3 years, +7 this year though).
- Nothing more than a 1B/DH from now on.
Thoughts?
As far as his Cons list, isn't he also pretty much useless against lefties? EDIT: Nevermind. He does SLG much lower vs. lefties but his OPS is still respectable.
dabomb2045
07-25-08, 04:24 PM
"Walking is useless with RISP"? Ummm....does walking not advance runners? Wtf
Walking is useless with RISP
Getting on base and failing to make an out is never useless. Ever.
Besides, he slugs .568 with RISP, too.
dabomb2045
07-25-08, 04:25 PM
Yes, I agree with this, although he is going to be an absolute disaster in LF at YS.
Very true....although if we do get him, I imagine he'll be DH'ng alot now that Damon is back and will be playing the OF again soon
As far as his Cons list, isn't he also pretty much useless against lefties?
I haven't looked at his career splits, but this year he's hitting lefties reasonably well.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:25 PM
Walking is useless with RISP
:wtf:
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:25 PM
Realistically guys - let's discuss cost...
I think Kennedy+Cox can get it done.
Cheesyhoboe
07-25-08, 04:26 PM
Walking doesn't advance runners in scoring position... because when you're on first base you're not on scoring position. It's not useless but walking isn't going to drive in runs except with rare bases loaded situations. He hits .220 with RISP.
Edit: Just to add on this, if it looks like I'm being unreasonable, I probably am. But I watch this guy regularly play over in Cincinnati and I don't like him at all, whatever you guys want though.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 04:26 PM
Very true, I've never seen a walk force in a run before.
:lol:
yankeesrule2000
07-25-08, 04:26 PM
Realistically guys - let's discuss cost...
I think Kennedy+Cox can get it done.
I will drive them to Cincy.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 04:26 PM
Realistically guys - let's discuss cost...
I think Kennedy+Cox can get it done.
I'd help pack their bags.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 04:27 PM
Forget situational hitting.
Have you seen the Yankees recently in the postseason?
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-25-08, 04:28 PM
Very true....although if we do get him, I imagine he'll be DH'ng alot now that Damon is back and will be playing the OF again soon
They need to get Melky/Gardner out of full-time roles, that means Damon should be in CF with Dunn in left.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:28 PM
I'd dress them.
dabomb2045
07-25-08, 04:28 PM
Walking doesn't advance runners in scoring position... because when you're on first base you're not on scoring position. It's not useless but walking isn't going to drive in runs except with rare bases loaded situations. He hits .220 with RISP.
Think about what you're saying.....you are telling us drawing a walk and getting on base is not productive. Sure you dont wanna revise that or anything?
The batters goal when he steps in the box...is to not make an out and get on base. Dunn does this job rather well.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:28 PM
Walking doesn't advance runners in scoring position... because when you're on first base you're not on scoring position. It's not useless but walking isn't going to drive in runs except with rare bases loaded situations. He hits .220 with RISP.
The more times you get on base, the more runs your team can be expected to score. Do you agree? If yes, explain why this doesn't apply with risp.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:29 PM
Have you seen the Yankees recently in the postseason?
Yeah. Their SP's have a tendency to give up 5 ER before the 4th inning thus putting extreme pressure on the lineup to hit the 6-run homer. I've seen ALL of their recent postseason games.
dabomb2045
07-25-08, 04:29 PM
They need to get Melky/Gardner out of full-time roles, that means Damon should be in CF with Dunn in left.
Eeeek...I hear what you're saying, but Damon back in CF and Dunn playing LF in YS is rather scary.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:31 PM
If Matsui and Posada are out for the year, the Yankees need a DH with Jason playing first, or a 1B with Jason DHing.
They can use a DH. How is Dunn less than a perfect fit.
edit: Dunn is like Bonds (who I'd love to sign), except that he can play the field (albeit terribly) at 1b/lf and has actually been playing ball the past year.
stazsanity
07-25-08, 04:31 PM
They need to get Melky/Gardner out of full-time roles, that means Damon should be in CF with Dunn in left.
under normal circumstances i'm right on the "get melky outta the lineup" bandwagon....but damon in center would be a catastrophe. as it stands, average/below average runners are tagging and scoring from third when damon fields a flyball in mid-left.... put him in center and singles will become doubles/first to third will be automatic.
melky's offense blows- but if the yanks can acquire some sort of offensive firepower to stick in the other corner o.f. position, they can probalby get away with melky's below average offense as long as he continues to play solid defense.
Snatch Catch
07-25-08, 04:31 PM
Realistically guys - let's discuss cost...
I think Kennedy+Cox can get it done.
Considering what we've heard about the interest in him, I think it might take less.
b_joseph
07-25-08, 04:33 PM
I have been against it in the past but putting Dunn in the #3 spot interests me.
Jeter would get more fat pitches and Alex would hit with men on base more often.
For the right price...yes.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:33 PM
Considering what we've heard about the interest in him, I think it might take less.
Yes, but the Reds would have to consider that package better than 2 picks. Just because there is minimal interest in him, doesn't mean he goes to the highest bidder.
Mr. Mxylsplk
07-25-08, 04:33 PM
He's a horrendous situational hitter, as we saw during the brief series in NY. Jeez, Dan freakin' Giese was striking him out easily in big spots. Why else would a power hitter be incapable of hitting sac-flies?
Dan Giese's apparent mastery notwithstanding, I don't know why you think he's a horrendous situational hitter. So far this year his ops with RISP, RISP with 2 outs and bases loaded are all the same or better as his overall numbers, which is to say .950 or better. His obp in those situations is similarly comparable to or better than his regular numbers, which is to say .380 or better. With simply runners on, the numbers don't lie - he is indeed worse than overall, to the tune of a .920 ops (though his obp is the exact same as his overall). He has 50 rbi's in 115 at-bats with runners on. He has 44 rbi's in 81 at-bats with RISP. That is a higher % of rbi's per at-bat in those situations this year than A-Rod, or Giambi, or Matsui.
For his career overall, his ops with runners on, risp, risp with 2 outs and bases loaded are close to or above his overall numbers. His obp is higher in each of those situations than overall, except with bases loaded (a whopping 79 at-bats), where it's about 40 points lower (but still a .973 ops).
If that's being a horrendous situational hitter, our team needs to get more horrendous.
YankeePride1967
07-25-08, 04:34 PM
Walking is useless with RISP
Getting a runner on base is NEVER useless. Never.
Snatch Catch
07-25-08, 04:35 PM
Yes, but the Reds would have to consider that package better than 2 picks. Just because there is minimal interest in him, doesn't mean he goes to the highest bidder.
It depends on why they're looking to rid themselves of him.
What if it took Gardner and McCutchen?
pleasepassthesoup
07-25-08, 04:35 PM
I'm all for it unless a trade for Holliday can somehow be worked out. For all those who don't like him, is that at the cost, or would you rather have Gardner out there for the rest of the season? To me, his downsides are irrelevant if the discussion is either picking up Dunn or getting no big bat because he's a guarantee to be better than whoever else we throw in the lineup and there is no long-term commitment. For a short term solution (and, to me, for a long term solution as well), he'd be a great pick up.
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 04:35 PM
This whole "walking is useless" thing reminds me of (forget who said it) that he doesn't care if Giambi had a .600 OBP...he's not fast.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:35 PM
Dan Giese's apparent mastery notwithstanding, I don't know why you think he's a horrendous situational hitter. So far this year his ops with RISP, RISP with 2 outs and bases loaded are all the same or better as his overall numbers, which is to say .950 or better. His obp in those situations is similarly comparable to or better than his regular numbers, which is to say .380 or better. With simply runners on, the numbers don't lie - he is indeed worse than overall, to the tune of a .920 ops (though his obp is the exact same as his overall). He has 50 rbi's in 115 at-bats with runners on. He has 44 rbi's in 81 at-bats with RISP. That is a higher % of rbi's per at-bat in those situations this year than A-Rod, or Giambi, or Matsui.
For his career overall, his ops with runners on, risp, risp with 2 outs and bases loaded are close to or above his overall numbers. His obp is higher in each of those situations than overall, except with bases loaded (a whopping 79 at-bats), where it's about 40 points lower (but still a .973 ops).
If that's being a horrendous situational hitter, our team needs to get more horrendous.
Yeah but what about that one time when he played against Dan Giese..
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:36 PM
Whoever is against a potential trade, point to his K's and low BA. That is not a recipe for disaster by any stretch. This is an exceptional offensive force in his prime.
If this guy ends up flicking homers over the porch with ease over the final two months, maybe he is a candidate for an extension.
Snatch Catch
07-25-08, 04:36 PM
This whole "walking is useless" thing reminds me of (forget who said it) that he doesn't care if Giambi had a .600 OBP...he's not fast.
McCarver. He clogs up the bases with his high OBP.
1936-1939JoeNLou
07-25-08, 04:36 PM
I think the Reds probably ask for Tabata and Kennedy along with a lower level prospect.
NelsonMuntz
07-25-08, 04:36 PM
I haven't looked at his career splits, but this year he's hitting lefties reasonably well.
Yeah I just looked up his 3 year splits and his numbers vs. lefties aren't bad: .823 OPS. Not sure what I was thinking earlier.
Mr. Mxylsplk
07-25-08, 04:36 PM
Yeah but what about that one time when he played against Dan Giese..
Well, once he's on the yankees, problem solved! Win - Win. (Except for Dan Giese of course).
dabomb2045
07-25-08, 04:36 PM
This whole "walking is useless" thing reminds me of (forget who said it) that he doesn't care if Giambi had a .600 OBP...he's not fast.
Isnt it McCarver who said Giambi hurts his team by walking too much because he clogs up the bases?
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:37 PM
It depends on why they're looking to rid themselves of him.
What if it took Gardner and McCutchen?
If that's all it took to get him I'd be floored. Needless to say, he'd be a Yankee already.
YanksFan1992
07-25-08, 04:37 PM
Great news, I've wanted him on the Yankees for a long time, so hopefully we can get him.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 04:38 PM
Yeah. Their SP's have a tendency to give up 5 ER before the 4th inning thus putting extreme pressure on the lineup to hit the 6-run homer. I've seen ALL of their recent postseason games.
Okay... that's why they left all those men on base against Sabathia. Postseason baseball isn't about the 6 run HR, it's about the 2 out RBI single and the productive out with a runner on second. Let's not make excuses.
I'm not saying Dunn's a bad player, but I just don't like him. I wouldn't give away any of our better prospects for him. He's the rich man's Jack Cust.
Yankee Fan in Boston
07-25-08, 04:39 PM
The Yankees are said to be in on every one who is rumored to be available, so I take all of these with a grain of salt
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 04:39 PM
Whoever is against a potential trade, point to his K's and low BA. That is not a recipe for disaster by any stretch. This is an exceptional offensive force in his prime.
If this guy ends up flicking homers over the porch with ease over the final two months, maybe he is a candidate for an extension.
For me it is the cost in talent that it might take to get him. If we can deal some right handed minor league pitiching for him I'm all for it. If names like Hughes, Jackson & Montero are involved I'm inclined to say no.
Pretty much name just about any two other prospects not on the MLB roster and maybe even a 3rd lower level guy and I'm on board 100%.
NelsonMuntz
07-25-08, 04:40 PM
The Yankees are said to be in on every one who is rumored to be available, so I take all of these with a grain of salt
I was just thinking the same thing. I'm sure Cashman is just doing his job and exploring all possibilities.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:40 PM
It's kind of fortunate that the Yankees have a need at DH. Think about it, everyone loses someone to injury and if you lose your short stop or second baseman or catcher or centerfielder, it is much harder to replace during the season than DH.
Now we lost our DH and our catcher but that is besides the point. We have a need at DH and its relatively easy to add there, as long we are willing to give up prospects.
Cheesyhoboe
07-25-08, 04:40 PM
OK, I'm just wondering, how many of you have actually regularly watched Dunn play?
Snatch Catch
07-25-08, 04:41 PM
If that's all it took to get him I'd be floored. Needless to say, he'd be a Yankee already.
Cashman has always had a habit waiting until the end. The fact that no one has been hugely interested only feeds into Cashman's style, I would think.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:41 PM
For me it is the cost in talent that it might take to get him. If we can deal some right handed minor league pitiching for him I'm all for it. If names like Hughes, Jackson & Montero are involved I'm inclined to say no.
Pretty much name just about any two other prospects not on the MLB roster and maybe even a 3rd lower level guy and I'm on board 100%.
I would also not trade Tabata for him (although I would not be opposed to trading him in the right deal...this is not the right deal for him)
I agree with your second sentence.
yankeesrule2000
07-25-08, 04:41 PM
I Hope we get Dunn, that would make our lineup so much better.
YanksFan1992
07-25-08, 04:41 PM
Besides, it's not every day you get the opportunity to add the league-leader in home-runs to your roster.
Mr. Mxylsplk
07-25-08, 04:42 PM
Okay... that's why they left all those men on base against Sabathia. Postseason baseball isn't about the 6 run HR, it's about the 2 out RBI single and the productive out with a runner on second. Let's not make excuses.
And yet, you don't want a hitter who turns baserunners into runs at a better rate than our current top hitters do?
CallOfTheCrow
07-25-08, 04:42 PM
Was it McCarver? For some reason, I thought it was someone on here that said it.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:43 PM
OK, I'm just wondering, how many of you have actually regularly watched Dunn play?
I have seen him play probably 10-15 times this year when I flip around like a mad man on MLB TV for my NL only fantasy team. But why is this relevant.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:43 PM
Cashman has always had a habit waiting until the end. The fact that no one has been hugely interested only feeds into Cashman's style, I would think.
Dunn makes too much sense for the LAA. I don't understand why they wouldn't be all over this.
I'd love to have him. Especially if we get to keep our big boys.
simmy886
07-25-08, 04:43 PM
Was it McCarver? For some reason, I thought it was someone on here that said it.
"Clogging the basepaths," IIRC, can properly be attributed to Dusty Baker.
THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 04:44 PM
Was it McCarver? For some reason, I thought it was someone on here that said it.
It's actually in someone's signature (I think it's either MattManUNC or MaximMan's). I think Matsui55 said that believe it or not.
Walking doesn't advance runners in scoring position... because when you're on first base you're not on scoring position. It's not useless but walking isn't going to drive in runs except with rare bases loaded situations. He hits .220 with RISP.
Edit: Just to add on this, if it looks like I'm being unreasonable, I probably am. But I watch this guy regularly play over in Cincinnati and I don't like him at all, whatever you guys want though.
He's averaging 100 RBIs since '04 and on pace to do as much this year. Granted strikeouts and low BA have little glamour but Dunn is among baseball's best offensive players.
nyyanksfan20
07-25-08, 04:53 PM
Dunn has always struck me as a guy I'd rather have on my fantasy than on my actual team. Depending on what we would have to give up I wouldn't be that opposed to it although I would rather have Jason Bay.
Thinking ahead here if we do get Dunn, how is he at 1st? I would think it's possible if we did lock him up long term we could have him play 1st.
primetime714
07-25-08, 04:56 PM
I could live with it at the right price, but I'm not crazy about the idea. He'd help this year, but he isn't a good long term solution for this team. Next year we'll have no place for another DH. Draft pick compensation helps, but I don't want to give up some of our more established young talent so we can pick up more unrefined prospects.
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 04:56 PM
Dunn has played some 1b in his career. Think Jason Giambi with a better arm but stiffer glove.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 05:01 PM
And yet, you don't want a hitter who turns baserunners into runs at a better rate than our current top hitter do?
And has the worst BABIP in the majors right now? How long do we have to wait for the HR? I'm not saying the guy stinks, but he's not my kind of player. He's a true 3 outcome guy and IMO, that's not a player who I will give even 1 top prospect away for. If we got him for little, then I would be fine with it.
I guess people are pulling out every OPS number they can find to convince me he's not a flawed offensive player, but I just don't agree. How is a guy with that much power incapable of hitting a sac. fly?
Dunn has played some 1b in his career. Think Jason Giambi with a better arm but stiffer glove.
Dunn reminds me of a poor man's version of the current Jason Giambi. I wouldn't want to give up anything more than second tier prospects, especially considering he's going to be a FA. But Cashman is going to wait until the last minute on all of these deals; he always manages to get the best of his trading partners at the last minute (see both the Bobby Abreu and Shawn Chacon trades).
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 05:05 PM
How is a guy with that much power incapable of hitting a sac. fly?
You do realise his 5 sac flies this year would be leading the Yankees if he was on our team right?
CT-Yankee
07-25-08, 05:09 PM
No to Dunn and Giles.
metalboy15
07-25-08, 05:09 PM
Which should be your biggest pro, metalboy.
TYPE A, MOFOS!
Yeah I know... my bad :D.
themgmt
07-25-08, 05:10 PM
You could put him in the middle of the lineup but he's not going to get as many walks in front of guys like Giambi and A-Rod and frustrate the heck out of you with the SO and low BA.. You can put him 7th slot and be content
I haven't watched enough games with Dunn, can he hit an outside pitch? I'd guess he'd see a ton of pitches away with the short porch, and maybe even a shift at YS. How does he do against good pitchers like Peavy Webb Sheets etc that don't walk the park? I know he'd still get his homeruns but what does his OBP look like against them?
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-25-08, 05:21 PM
Eeeek...I hear what you're saying, but Damon back in CF and Dunn playing LF in YS is rather scary.
I'd probably ask Abreu to move to left.
primetime714
07-25-08, 05:23 PM
Dunn has played some 1b in his career. Think Jason Giambi with a better arm but stiffer glove.
Dunn's only a tick better than David Ortiz at 1B. So not someone you could realistically use at 1B. In LF he's somewhere along the lines of a Matsui or Raul Ibanez, but IMO probably worse than those two. You can certainly get away with him in LF, but its far from ideal especially in Yankee Stadium. Next year he'll have no position on this team with Matsui and Damon both healthy. He can't play RF.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 05:26 PM
You do realise his 5 sac flies this year would be leading the Yankees if he was on our team right?
Considering Giambi's horrendous RISP numbers and all the pop-outs A-Rod has with RISP, that comparison doesn't say much.
Yankee Tripper
07-25-08, 05:37 PM
Considering Giambi's horrendous RISP numbers and all the pop-outs A-Rod has with RISP, that comparison doesn't say much.He's also tied for 18th overall with 17 other guys who have 5. The MLB leader is Bengie Molina with 9.
metalboy15
07-25-08, 05:37 PM
Adam Dunn as a 1B:
2002: 43 games
UZR: -10
FRAA: -2
2003: 12 games
UZR: -1
FRAA: 0
2004: 58 Innings
UZR: +1
FRAA: +1
RZR: .875
OOZ: 3
2005: 251 Innings.
UZR: 0
FRAA: -1
RZR: .792
OOZ: 6
2006: 4 games.
UZR: -1
FRAA: 0
sabermet prospectus
07-25-08, 06:14 PM
Actually it is better to look at the stats for a players true value then to watch him play because we all have selective memories but the numbers dont lie. Dunn is a great offensive player.
Put it this way, the reds stink so you arent winning many games and youve probbaly seen dunn strike out in a big spot (something even the greatest players ever have done many times) and you say to yourself, wow dunn stinks and never drives in a big run which simply isnt true.
I dont know why for some reason people find it more astetichly pleasing to watch a guy ground out or fly out then to watch him strike out.
Let's see...Dunn has a .943 ops and is on pace for 46 HR this season, making this his 5th straight 40HR season. Why are people against acquiring him?
And did someone above say that Dunn is a poor man's version of Jason Giambi? How? Giambi is on pace for like 10 less HR and his OPS is worse than Dunn's.
jimmykey2
07-25-08, 10:30 PM
Let's see...Dunn has a .943 ops and is on pace for 46 HR this season, making this his 5th straight 40HR season. Why are people against acquiring him?
And did someone above say that Dunn is a poor man's version of Jason Giambi? How? Giambi is on pace for like 10 less HR and his OPS is worse than Dunn's.
And Jason Giambi is an old man who dyes his moustache. In their primes, Giambi was obviously the better hitter when you add in the home park factor.
nnysiny
07-27-08, 09:48 AM
Let's see...Dunn has a .943 ops and is on pace for 46 HR this season, making this his 5th straight 40HR season. Why are people against acquiring him?
HRs are a pretty bad way to evaluate a player. Dunn had a 40 HR season once and wound up with a 114 OPS+. anyone can hit HRs in Cincinnati
Abe Frohman
07-27-08, 10:25 AM
We're getting a lil crazy over here. i want no part of Adam Dunn. I think
Cashman covered some major holes with the recent trade. Now if we can have
Washburn for a reasonable price prospects-wise then im all for it. but frankly i think
this team will hold its own till our reinforcements come back in Wang,
Hughes, Bruney, and whoever else can help this team.
YanksFan1992
07-27-08, 10:45 AM
I'll stop asking you about it Abe, but can you please tell us why you posts look the way they do.
Abe Frohman
07-27-08, 12:07 PM
I'll stop asking you about it Abe, but can you please tell us why you posts look the way they do.
I mostly type off of my PDA and thats the way they come out. I think its cool tho. my
own signature post style. There, the mystery comes to light.
YanksFan1992
07-27-08, 12:10 PM
I mostly type off of my PDA and thats the way they come out. I think its cool tho. my
own signature post style. There, the mystery comes to light.
Gotcha, thanks for explaining it. :)
He will be a very very good addition. I hope we can get him. His power and OBP will definitely help the team and this year his defence is greatly improved. Hopefully we only give up Kennedy and Cox.
However, as much as I like him, AJ is untouchable.
SINCE77 2
07-27-08, 09:12 PM
AL East pitching would eat Dunn up alive just as AL West pitching (A's & Angels mostly) ate up Sexson.
And Jason Giambi is an old man who dyes his moustache. In their primes, Giambi was obviously the better hitter when you add in the home park factor.
Correct, although I'm not sure what Giambi's 2000 production has to do with anything when the poster said "Dunn reminds me of a poor man's version of the current Jason Giambi."
AL East pitching would eat Dunn up alive just as AL West pitching (A's & Angels mostly) ate up Sexson.
Dunn would be a 40HR, 380OBP player in the NL, in the AL, in the minors, on the moon, etc. We get it, the AL is better than the NL. However this whole notion that every NL player who crosses to the AL will season a dramatic reduction in performance is ridiculous. Johan Santana was supposed to best his AL numbers this year, right? And from 2005-2007, Dunn has a 385avg against LAA, 636 against TEX, 333 against SEA, 400 against KC, 333 against DET, 286 agasint BOS, etc.
And btw, those citing park factors in Dunn's success: He has had the most no-doubter HR's of any player in the league this year. His home runs average 418 feet. http://www.hittrackeronline.com/
Evil Empire
07-28-08, 01:44 PM
Uh...the Yanks are still exploring this after getting Nady?
Mr. Mxylsplk
07-28-08, 01:58 PM
Uh...the Yanks are still exploring this after getting Nady?
I can't imagine.
bmxstreetrider86
07-28-08, 02:08 PM
Correct, although I'm not sure what Giambi's 2000 production has to do with anything when the poster said "Dunn reminds me of a poor man's version of the current Jason Giambi."
Dunn would be a 40HR, 380OBP player in the NL, in the AL, in the minors, on the moon, etc. We get it, the AL is better than the NL. However this whole notion that every NL player who crosses to the AL will season a dramatic reduction in performance is ridiculous. Johan Santana was supposed to best his AL numbers this year, right? And from 2005-2007, Dunn has a 385avg against LAA, 636 against TEX, 333 against SEA, 400 against KC, 333 against DET, 286 agasint BOS, etc.
And btw, those citing park factors in Dunn's success: He has had the most no-doubter HR's of any player in the league this year. His home runs average 418 feet. http://www.hittrackeronline.com/
See: Cabrera, Miguel
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