View Full Version : 1/3 of the season...we're not the worst
mycroft
06-01-08, 02:31 PM
As I am writing this I have to take a break as Michael Kay is singing the Mary Tyer Moore song...:wtf: :-whistle- Jeez
Anyway, 1 game over 500 starting the second 1/3 of the season is pretty pathetic but over the last week or two there is reason to be optimistic.
Damon~Slow start like most of the rest of this team but really has been doing much better of late.
Jeter~Was hitting very well but this last hand injury may be effecting his swing more than he is letting on. For this team to go anywhere the top two guys have to get on.
Abreu~Quietly having a pretty good season and if he finishes fast like last year he could have one heck of a contract year.
ARod~Well after last year it isn't all that surprising that he isn't putting up huge numbers yet and has been inconsistant.
Matsui~Leading the league in hitting and is having his best year as a Yankee so far. DH'ing seems to agree with him.
Giambi~After an extremely slow start hitting well below the Mendoza line Giambi has been super hot. Maybe my lambasting him had some positive effect ;) Funny but he seems to be playing a very good defensive 1st base as well.
Posada\Molina\Moeller~Well this team can't survive for all that long without Jorge. Chad and Jose are good backups but we need Posada's switch hitting bat in the middle of this lineup.
Cano~Roby is probably the best second baseman in baseball but his bat has been very sporatic. We can live with this if the rest of the bats do their job. Cano is just way too agressive and needs to take more pitches.
Melky~One of the best defensive center fielders but we could use a higher on base percentage. Taking him out of the lineup is not an option as an outfield with Damon and Matsui is just not going to get it done.
Duncan~Well hope springs eternal and my hopes for Shelly to come up big haven't materialized. Will probably go down when Posada is activated.
Chamberlain~Games 1 and 2 were lost in Baltimore primarilly because Joba was not able to pitch and the middle relief didn't get it done. However the middle relief did come through in our last three wins. Ramirez has done a nice job. The rest are just scary. I still disagree with moving Joba out of the pen and this move is being forced on Giradi by an owner who's mouth is bigger than his wallet, but what else in new. I don't think Torre would have let this happen.
Rivera~Mo is the Sandman and has one of his best starts ever. He is just amazing and the greatest ever.
Wang~Started out great and now he just flat out stinks and it is very easy to see the difference in his first 6 wins and his last several starts. Either he is on or off and he needs to figure out his dellivery and fix it, soon.
Pettitte~After 3 sub par starts Andy came up big in his last start to abort the Orioles bid for a sweep. Andy needs to find his groove soon and keep it.
Mussina~Probably been our most consistant pitcher and that continues to surpise me. Moose seems to have learned how to very his speeds and location. I will be interested to see how long he can keep it up.
Rasner has come up big in his last several starts but as I am writing this he is digging himself quite a hole....seems he got out of it with only a run, not bad. Down 3-0.
I have no real clue why this team has been playing as poorly as they are, why their stats are generally so terrible. If you look at this team individually they look fine, not a team just barely out of last place. RISP has been killing them and it seems everyone wants to hit a six run homer. It is clear; however, that this team needs to learn how to win and expect to win, not just hope that they will win. This team needs to believe in themselves and believe they are winners and that is what Girardi needs to be able to transmit. This team is just too good to be one game over 500. The good news is the rest of the division is waiting on us.
b_joseph
06-01-08, 02:52 PM
Anyway, 1 game over 500 starting the second 1/3 of the season is pretty pathetic
What? After losing Alex and Jorge for as long as we did and IKE-Hughes sucking as hard as they did. 1 game up is pretty good.
1978 Forever
06-01-08, 02:56 PM
I have no real clue why this team has been playing as poorly as they are, why their stats are generally so terrible. If you look at this team individually they look fine, .
:uhh: ummmmm....I hope you're joking....Perhaps you can't figure it out because you suspiciously left off the following people and their stats;
Hughes, 0-4, 9.00
Kennedy, 0-3, 7.41
Igawa, 0-1, 18.00
Hawkins, 6.75 ERA, WHIP = 1.50
Ohlenddorf = 5.97 ERA
dabomb2045
06-01-08, 02:56 PM
What? After losing Alex and Jorge for as long as we did and IKE-Hughes sucking as hard as they did. 1 game up is pretty good.
Thats pretty much the way I'm looking at it too. If Joba takes to the starting rotation well, and we get Jorge back soon....this team will be real good.
mycroft
06-01-08, 03:00 PM
:uhh: ummmmm....I hope you're joking....Perhaps you can't figure it out because you suspiciously left off the following people and their stats;
Hughes, 0-4, 9.00
Kennedy, 0-3, 7.41
Igawa, 0-1, 18.00
Hawkins, 6.75 ERA, WHIP = 1.50
Ohlenddorf = 5.97 ERA
LOL
Yes there you have it. Hawkins is terrible and why we got rid of Visciano for this chucker is beyond me. Ohlenddorf came up big last night so I gave him some slack and got the win to boot.
As for the rest it does seem to be a central theme that our pitching prospects seem to fizzle and who ever evaulates pitching talent for this team has no clue. Igawa is embarrasiing. All I heard all off season was Kennedy this and Hughes that and look what we got. Don't forget Pavano.
parkerstrong
06-01-08, 03:06 PM
As I am writing this I have to take a break as Michael Kay is singing the Mary Tyer Moore song...:wtf: :-whistle- Jeez
Anyway, 1 game over 500 starting the second 1/3 of the season is pretty pathetic but over the last week or two there is reason to be optimistic.
Damon~Slow start like most of the rest of this team but really has been doing much better of late.
Jeter~Was hitting very well but this last hand injury may be effecting his swing more than he is letting on. For this team to go anywhere the top two guys have to get on.
Abreu~Quietly having a pretty good season and if he finishes fast like last year he could have one heck of a contract year.
ARod~Well after last year it isn't all that surprising that he isn't putting up huge numbers yet and has been inconsistant.
Matsui~Leading the league in hitting and is having his best year as a Yankee so far. DH'ing seems to agree with him.
Giambi~After an extremely slow start hitting well below the Mendoza line Giambi has been super hot. Maybe my lambasting him had some positive effect ;) Funny but he seems to be playing a very good defensive 1st base as well.
Posada\Molina\Moeller~Well this team can't survive for all that long without Jorge. Chad and Jose are good backups but we need Posada's switch hitting bat in the middle of this lineup.
Cano~Roby is probably the best second baseman in baseball but his bat has been very sporatic. We can live with this if the rest of the bats do their job. Cano is just way too agressive and needs to take more pitches.
Melky~One of the best defensive center fielders but we could use a higher on base percentage. Taking him out of the lineup is not an option as an outfield with Damon and Matsui is just not going to get it done.
Duncan~Well hope springs eternal and my hopes for Shelly to come up big haven't materialized. Will probably go down when Posada is activated.
Chamberlain~Games 1 and 2 were lost in Baltimore primarilly because Joba was not able to pitch and the middle relief didn't get it done. However the middle relief did come through in our last three wins. Ramirez has done a nice job. The rest are just scary. I still disagree with moving Joba out of the pen and this move is being forced on Giradi by an owner who's mouth is bigger than his wallet, but what else in new. I don't think Torre would have let this happen.
Rivera~Mo is the Sandman and has one of his best starts ever. He is just amazing and the greatest ever.
Wang~Started out great and now he just flat out stinks and it is very easy to see the difference in his first 6 wins and his last several starts. Either he is on or off and he needs to figure out his dellivery and fix it, soon.
Pettitte~After 3 sub par starts Andy came up big in his last start to abort the Orioles bid for a sweep. Andy needs to find his groove soon and keep it.
Mussina~Probably been our most consistant pitcher and that continues to surpise me. Moose seems to have learned how to very his speeds and location. I will be interested to see how long he can keep it up.
Rasner has come up big in his last several starts but as I am writing this he is digging himself quite a hole....seems he got out of it with only a run, not bad. Down 3-0.
I have no real clue why this team has been playing as poorly as they are, why their stats are generally so terrible. If you look at this team individually they look fine, not a team just barely out of last place. RISP has been killing them and it seems everyone wants to hit a six run homer. It is clear; however, that this team needs to learn how to win and expect to win, not just hope that they will win. This team needs to believe in themselves and believe they are winners and that is what Girardi needs to be able to transmit. This team is just too good to be one game over 500. The good news is the rest of the division is waiting on us.
I like Cano and was happy to give him that extension....but Cano can't compare to Utley. Lets not even mention Cano as the best second baseman because its really a disservice to Utley.
NYIndian2005
06-01-08, 03:06 PM
:uhh: ummmmm....I hope you're joking....Perhaps you can't figure it out because you suspiciously left off the following people and their stats;
Hughes, 0-4, 9.00
Kennedy, 0-3, 7.41
Igawa, 0-1, 18.00
Hawkins, 6.75 ERA, WHIP = 1.50
Ohlenddorf = 5.97 ERA
Biggest culprits as far as I am concerned. The yankees were just hoping for too much from these two and they just plain ................ their pants. They could not have done any worse than they did. The worst case scenario is a big reason why we are where we are inspite of our offense struggling n all.
mycroft
06-01-08, 03:10 PM
I like Cano and was happy to give him that extension....but Cano can't compare to Utley. Lets not even mention Cano as the best second baseman because its really a disservice to Utley.
Yes Utley is having a great offensive year but lets not forget Cano had one great year too. One year does not make a hall of famer. I was speaking defensively.
parkerstrong
06-01-08, 03:13 PM
Yes Utley is having a great offensive year but lets not forget Cano had one great year too. One year does not make a hall of famer. I was speaking defensively.
Again, you underestimate Utley and give Cano too much credit. Utley is so much better.
parkerstrong
06-01-08, 03:18 PM
Utley's career numbers
AVG .303 OBP .376 SLG .537 OPS .913
Cano's career numbers
AVG .304 OBP .337 SLG .471 OPS .809
Cano's career high for OPS is .890 in 2006....and Utley had the worst year of the last four in 2006 and still posted OPS of .906. Utley has posted OPS of over .900 the last 3 years and this year....they aren't close.
Rastven
06-01-08, 03:18 PM
LOL
Yes there you have it. Hawkins is terrible and why we got rid of Visciano for this chucker is beyond me.
Cos Viz wanted money and a long term deal and is now on the DL. Short term Hawkins is liveable if he's only going to be used as a mop up scrub.
1978 Forever
06-01-08, 03:27 PM
Stolen base count entering today;
Yankees - 28
Ellsbury - 26
Things are looking up for this team but I still think they are a long way off.
primetime714
06-01-08, 04:25 PM
Again, you underestimate Utley and give Cano too much credit. Utley is so much better.
Agreed Utley is by far the best 2B in baseball, its not even close. And Cano is probably my favorite player he just doesn't stack up with Utley, but not many players at any position do.
NYYDragoon
06-01-08, 04:26 PM
Stolen base count entering today;
Yankees - 28
Ellsbury - 26That's pretty upsetting, because I really thought this team would be running a lot more. There's always time to turn it around.
parkerstrong
06-01-08, 05:35 PM
Agreed Utley is by far the best 2B in baseball, its not even close. And Cano is probably my favorite player he just doesn't stack up with Utley, but not many players at any position do.
Exactly. I'm glad Cano is our second baseman, but Utley is far superior.
We're not the worst but this year Yankees isn't looking better than last year and one thing that makes me angry about them is they lost the focus very easy and start to play without any inspiration and giving very quick innings to the other teams.
mycroft
06-02-08, 06:17 AM
Again, you underestimate Utley and give Cano too much credit. Utley is so much better.
oy, well I am sure the Philly forum is the place you need to be. We'll see how great he is next year, or next month...
1978 Forever
06-02-08, 11:22 AM
On Friday morning, I stated the Yanks would take 3 of 4 from the Twins and that we're going to start our steady climb out of the cellar & up the ladder.
I have faith we'll win tonight, but I'm not sure how fast & far we're going to get up that ladder. It will take time and patience.
Tampa - They look for real & I feel their SP will keep them in the hunt all year for a widcard at a minimum. Tampa may find themselves in a position they're not used to being in at the trading deadline & will have lots of ammo if they want to make a real run.
Sox - The Sox are the Sox & will be there in the end, regardless of injuries, etc. The Sox are getting ready to play 15 out the next 21 games at home, where they always play well year after year & are 21-5 this year.
Toronto - The upcoming series with us will be fun, I think.;) Toronto has enough SP to be a thorn in everyones side. This is an opportunity for us to climb over them.
We are the best team in the league in % of not scoring when we have a double with no outs. I lost the count how many times that happened this year.
Things are looking up for this team but I still think they are a long way off.
I am thinking we are really just a .500 team this year. I still cheer 'em on, though!
O'Neill's 3b + E
06-10-08, 09:16 AM
Cano is a very good second basemen and despite his awful start to this season still has a chance to become one of the better 2b in baseball. That siad, there are several 2b I'd rahter have.
Chase Utley: He's pretty much Gary Sheffield at 2b with plus defense.
Kelly Johnson: Very underrated, missed all of 2006 with an injury but posted an OPS+ of 117 last season and is clocked in at 120 this season. He also has some speed at the base paths.
Dan Uggla: While I'd argue Cano and Johnson may bet better, it's hard to ignore his freakish production thus far.
Ian Kinsler: Has had worse numbers than Cano until this season but also sports a career 51 steals to 6 CS, including 17 this year with not a single CS.
I'd rank Cano right under these along with Rickie Weeks and Dustin Pedrioa with Weeks and Cano clearly having more upside.
primetime714
06-10-08, 10:03 AM
Cano is a very good second basemen and despite his awful start to this season still has a chance to become one of the better 2b in baseball. That siad, there are several 2b I'd rahter have.
Chase Utley: He's pretty much Gary Sheffield at 2b with plus defense.
Kelly Johnson: Very underrated, missed all of 2006 with an injury but posted an OPS+ of 117 last season and is clocked in at 120 this season. He also has some speed at the base paths.
Dan Uggla: While I'd argue Cano and Johnson may bet better, it's hard to ignore his freakish production thus far.
Ian Kinsler: Has had worse numbers than Cano until this season but also sports a career 51 steals to 6 CS, including 17 this year with not a single CS.
I'd rank Cano right under these along with Rickie Weeks and Dustin Pedrioa with Weeks and Cano clearly having more upside.
Kelly Johnson?? No way. You can definitely make a good case for the others, but Kelly Johnson is clearly an inferior player to Cano. Cano last season posted a 120 OPS+ and 126 in 2006. Even with the pitiful numbers he has put up this year and the fact that he has no patience at the plate he still has a career OPS+ 111. Also where is this speed that Kelly Johnson has? The guy had 9 stolen bases last year and was caught 5 times. Johnson has more patience at the plate and that's the only advantage he has over Cano and that's not saying a lot as few players are less patient than Cano.
Utley is obvious better. Uggla you can make a real good case for because he has elite power at the position. Kinsler you can also make a good case for because he has a lot more speed and probably a little more power.
Pedroia is a solid player, but he doesn't have much projection. Last year was about the best you'll see from Pedroia and that was worse than Cano's two best years in the league. Weeks is all about projection, as his career performance is closer to Cano this year than Cano in past years.
O'Neill's 3b + E
06-10-08, 10:10 AM
Kelly Johnson?? No way. You can definitely make a good case for the others, but Kelly Johnson is clearly an inferior player to Cano. Cano last season posted a 120 OPS+ and 126 in 2006. Even with the pitiful numbers he has put up this year and the fact that he has no patience at the plate he still has a career OPS+ 111. Also where is this speed that Kelly Johnson has? The guy had 9 stolen bases last year and was caught 5 times. Johnson has more patience at the plate and that's the only advantage he has over Cano and that's not saying a lot as few players are less patient than Cano.
Utley is obvious better. Uggla you can make a real good case for because he has elite power at the position. Kinsler you can also make a good case for because he has a lot more speed and probably a little more power.
Pedroia is a solid player, but he doesn't have much projection. Last year was about the best you'll see from Pedroia and that was worse than Cano's two best years in the league. Weeks is all about projection, as his career performance is closer to Cano this year than Cano in past years.
FYI: Johnson has a Career OPS+ of 110. Given his recent success and the fact that he missed all of 06, I think it's fairly resonable to think he's better at this point than Cano.
You're right about Weeks and Pedroia, I just listed them as second rung 2b (along with Cano) at this point because 1) is all polish and likely to be very solid (though he's struggling this year) and 2) the other's got a ton of upside. Cano likely hits the sweetspot between Weeks and Pedrioa as far as polish vs athletic ability and I wouldn't be shocked to see him join the list of guys like Utley, Uggla and Johnson but right now given his struggles he's just very solid.
effdamets
06-10-08, 10:26 AM
FYI: Johnson has a Career OPS+ of 110. Given his recent success and the fact that he missed all of 06, I think it's fairly resonable to think he's better at this point than Cano.
You're right about Weeks and Pedroia, I just listed them as second rung 2b (along with Cano) at this point because 1) is all polish and likely to be very solid (though he's struggling this year) and 2) the other's got a ton of upside. Cano likely hits the sweetspot between Weeks and Pedrioa as far as polish vs athletic ability and I wouldn't be shocked to see him join the list of guys like Utley, Uggla and Johnson but right now given his struggles he's just very solid.
Cano's career OPS+ is 111...
O'Neill's 3b + E
06-10-08, 10:38 AM
Cano's career OPS+ is 111...
Burn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not really. Like I said before, I think we can give Johnson a break for only posting an OPS+ of 116 last season since he missed the entire season prior. On top of that, this season one has an OPS+ of 120 while the other has a 66. I think we have to take current performance into account here. On top of that, Johnson was also a much better hitter in the minors.
I'm not taking anything away from Cano. He has been a great hitter over thus far, however I think you're not seeing the real value of Johnson. The guy is on pace to hit 17 home runs and 44 doubles this season steal 17 bases and post an OPS+ of 120. That's got a ton of value.
He's also only 7 months older than Cano and missed an entire season due to injury during a crucial phase of his career. The guy looks legit and is likely about even money to have a higher career OPS+ than Cano come seasons end.
effdamets
06-10-08, 10:41 AM
Burn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not really. Like I said before, I think we can give Johnson a break for only posting an OPS+ of 116 last season since he missed the entire season prior. On top of that, this season one has an OPS+ of 120 while the other has a 66. I think we have to take current performance into account here. On top of that, Johnson was also a much better hitter in the minors.
I'm not taking anything away from Cano. He has been a great hitter over thus far, however I think you're not seeing the real value of Johnson. The guy is on pace to hit 17 home runs and 44 doubles this season steal 17 bases and post an OPS+ of 120. That's got a ton of value.
He's also only 7 months older than Cano and missed an entire season due to injury during a crucial phase of his career. The guy looks legit and is likely about even money to have a higher career OPS+ than Cano come seasons end.
So you are saying trade Cano for Johnson?
I don't understand the logic.
Why would you give up on Cano so quickly when he has done nothing but perform for the Yankees?
O'Neill's 3b + E
06-10-08, 10:49 AM
So you are saying trade Cano for Johnson?
I don't understand the logic.
Why would you give up on Cano so quickly when he has done nothing but perform for the Yankees?
No, I'm not suggesting a trade. Can a poster just acknowledge another player is an excellent young player with out being asked if he’d trade the player that happens to be a Yankee for that said player?
I argued with the insane statement that Cano was the best 2b in baseball. I listed several 2b who are arguably better. Does that mean that Cano won’t out produce Uggla or Johnson in the long run? Hell no, it just means that as of right now they look to be safer bets.
Cano has already had a very nice career. I suspect he’ll get out of this funk and will likely rejoin the elite second basemen in baseball (shot of Utley of course). However, when it was argued that the assertion that Johnson is at this point a better option than Cano the responses suggested such a claim was ludicrous. However, recent history, minor league track record and other factors suggest that Kelly Johnson is a damn good ball player and that is something that at the moment, Robinson Cano is not. Will he bounce back, I’d argue yes. Will he out hit Johnson for the year, unlikely.
effdamets
06-10-08, 10:51 AM
No, I'm not suggesting a trade. Can a poster just acknowledge another player is an excellent young player with out being asked if he’d trade the player that happens to be a Yankee for that said player?
I argued with the insane statement that Cano was the best 2b in baseball. I listed several 2b who are arguably better. Does that mean that Cano won’t out produce Uggla or Johnson in the long run? Hell no, it just means that as of right now they look to be safer bets.
Cano has already had a very nice career. I suspect he’ll get out of this funk and will likely rejoin the elite second basemen in baseball (shot of Utley of course). However, when it was argued that the assertion that Johnson is at this point a better option than Cano the responses suggested such a claim was ludicrous. However, recent history, minor league track record and other factors suggest that Kelly Johnson is a damn good ball player and that is something that at the moment, Robinson Cano is not. Will he bounce back, I’d argue yes. Will he out hit Johnson for the year, unlikely.
OK.
I'll agree with that.
My comments are due to my laziness of not reading the entire thread.
Mattinglyrules
06-11-08, 08:47 AM
On June 11, 2007 we were ONE GAME UNDER .500. On July 11, 2007, we were at .500. We'll be OK. We're only 5 games back of the Wildcard, and 6 1/2 back in the division!
JOBA RULES
06-11-08, 10:47 AM
On June 11, 2007 we were ONE GAME UNDER .500. On July 11, 2007, we were at .500. We'll be OK. We're only 5 games back of the Wildcard, and 6 1/2 back in the division!
I thought it was just 6 in the division
effdamets
06-11-08, 11:34 AM
I thought it was just 6 in the division
5 in the loss column
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