View Full Version : Brett Gardner
Posada_20
03-04-08, 08:59 AM
I really hope there is a spot for him on this team. I love the way he plays the game. True, he is not a power hitter, which turns off some people, but you need 1 or 2 of these types on your team too. A guy at the top or bottom of the lineup that does anything to get on base and set the table for the big guns. He can definitely play CF, just a question if he can hit and get on base enough.
Mr. Mxylsplk
03-04-08, 09:04 AM
I really hope there is a spot for him on this team. I love the way he plays the game. True, he is not a power hitter, which turns off some people, but you need 1 or 2 of these types on your team too. A guy at the top or bottom of the lineup that does anything to get on base and set the table for the big guns. He can definitely play CF, just a question if he can hit and get on base enough.
A spot for him in the future or now? I certainly hope there isn't a spot for him now to sit at the end of the bench instead of continuing to develop in the minors.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-04-08, 09:04 AM
I say a prayer everyday that he is our starting CF instead of Melky.
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:09 AM
I hope someday that he makes a solid 4/5 OF and pinch runner.
While I don't believe that every player in the lineup needs to be a power hitter, I don't think that the answer is going to be a player whose SLG has been less than his OBP in his minor league career, while at the same time being nearly a full year older than our current CF.
YESSIR!
03-04-08, 09:10 AM
I say a prayer everyday that he is our starting CF instead of Melky.
Hogwash. He's got more speed than Melky, but it pretty much stops there as far as ability goes.
BRNXBMRS
03-04-08, 09:11 AM
Gardenr in CF, Melky in RF in 09
He would be lucky to put up a .700 OPS this season.
flymick24
03-04-08, 09:12 AM
he's looked pretty bad so far in ST... lots of hustle and little else
Gardenr in CF, Melky in RF in 09
Its possible, but I wouldnt do that. We wouldnt be getting enough offensive production out of a Damon Gardner Melky outfield.
Gardenr in CF, Melky in RF in 09
If Melky all of the sudden hits 15 homers and 30 doubles this year...then sure...
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:14 AM
Its possible, but I wouldnt do that. We wouldnt be getting enough offensive production out of a Damon Gardner Melky outfield.
That would be a brutal OF in terms of production. They'd maybe 30 HRs between them. And that's if Damon hit 20.
CallOfTheCrow
03-04-08, 09:15 AM
Gardenr in CF, Melky in RF in 09
Hopefully Austin Jackson in CF, Jose Tabata in RF by '09.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-04-08, 09:17 AM
Hogwash. He's got more speed than Melky, but it pretty much stops there as far as ability goes.
He has better range and much better ability to get on base.
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:22 AM
Put it this way on Gardner. Did it seem like the Minnesota Twins, a team that generally runs more than most AL teams, currently plays on turf, and needed a CF, push hard to have him included in the Santana trade? Weren't they asking for Cabrera the whole time?
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 09:24 AM
He has better range and much better ability to get on base.
A much better ability to get on base? Based on what?
Personally, I like the player that Gardner wants to be. Someone that does lack power, but gets on base 37% to 39% of the time. Unfortunately, I have serious doubts he can ever be that type of player in the major leagues. And, if he's not getting on base at least 37% of the time, he is just not a good player because he has absolutely zero power.
He has better range and much better ability to get on base.
He has had a better ISO D throughout his career, but I'm not sure that he can hit for a sufficient AVG in the majors yet, given that he only hit .260 at SWB. When you then factor a low SLG, I don't think he gives you as much value as Melky at this point, especially if Melky can put up an .800 OPS, which he was on his way to doing until his Sept. swoon.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-04-08, 09:29 AM
He has had a better ISO D throughout his career, but I'm not sure that he can hit for a sufficient AVG in the majors yet, given that he only hit .260 at SWB. When you then factor a low SLG, I don't think he gives you as much value as Melky at this point, especially if Melky can put up an .800 OPS, which he was on his way to doing until his Sept. swoon.
Melky has a lot of swoons because his OBP is largely based on his BA. Until he learns how to walk, he will continue to have prolonged slumps that he has killed his numbers the last two years. I just want to give someone else a try, I don't think Melky has earned anything, from some recent comments I think the Yankees feel the same way.
Melky has a lot of swoons because his OBP is largely based on his BA. Until he learns how to walk, he will continue to have prolonged slumps that he has killed his numbers the last two years. I just want to give someone else a try.
I think we'll have a better read on both players by the AS break. That's probably what is going to happen, unless Melky flatlines.
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:30 AM
He has had a better ISO D throughout his career, but I'm not sure that he can hit for a sufficient AVG in the majors yet, given that he only hit .260 at SWB. When you then factor a low SLG, I don't think he gives you as much value as Melky at this point, especially if Melky can put up an .800 OPS, which he was on his way to doing until his Sept. swoon.
Right, what starts happening when major league pitchers start pounding the strike zone against him, and major league defenders are taking away a few hits and doubles per week?
I think the more important thing to figure out is how in the middle 4 months of the season, Melky has been a decent offensive producer, but in April and September he's atrocious.
He has had a better ISO D throughout his career, but I'm not sure that he can hit for a sufficient AVG in the majors yet, given that he only hit .260 at SWB. When you then factor a low SLG, I don't think he gives you as much value as Melky at this point, especially if Melky can put up an .800 OPS, which he was on his way to doing until his Sept. swoon.
I think so far in ST Melky is winning the job (though there's still time). However, it will be nice to have Gardner in Scranton in case of injury to any of the starters. He's definitely a solid backup option whether or not he ends up starting the majors.
CallOfTheCrow
03-04-08, 09:32 AM
Put it this way on Gardner. Did it seem like the Minnesota Twins, a team that generally runs more than most AL teams, currently plays on turf, and needed a CF, push hard to have him included in the Santana trade? Weren't they asking for Cabrera the whole time?
The Diamondbacks rejected the Yankees' offer of Wang & Cano for Randy Johnson. Let's not judge a player by who the GMs do or don't ask for in a trade.
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 09:33 AM
Melky has a lot of swoons because his OBP is largely based on his BA. Until he learns how to walk, he will continue to have prolonged slumps that he has killed his numbers the last two years. I just want to give someone else a try, I don't think Melky has earned anything, from some recent comments I think the Yankees feel the same way.
I'm all for giving someone else a shot when that player would do a better job. But Brett Gardner is clearly not that guy, at least not right now. And based on what he is doing in ST, it looks even more like he is not that guy. Now when Austin Jackson is ready, there's someone who can legitimately challenge Melky.
BRNXBMRS
03-04-08, 09:34 AM
If Melky all of the sudden hits 15 homers and 30 doubles this year...then sure...
hes got to bust out sometime
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:36 AM
The Diamondbacks rejected the Yankees' offer of Wang & Cano for Randy Johnson. Let's not judge a player by who the GMs do or don't ask for in a trade.
That's a good point, Although I just meant more along the lines of Gardner seems like a player tailor made to play for Minnesota, and they weren't that interested. The Yankees aren't really that type of team. He's not going to walk a lot in NY because he's got no power, so teams will have no incentive to pitch around him. Basically in that lineup, they'll make him try and hit .330.
I'm all for giving someone else a shot when that player would do a better job. But Brett Gardner is clearly not that guy, at least not right now. And based on what he is doing in ST, it looks even more like he is not that guy. Now when Austin Jackson is ready, there's someone who can legitimately challenge Melky.
While AJax has looked good defensively, he's looked worse overall at the plate than Gardner. He hasn't had a hit in ST yet (and considering he has yet to play in AA, that's not surprising). Meanwhile, Gardner has hit a little, but has had a lot of K's and hasn't looked as good defensively. I don't think Gardner is going to win the job this year, but I also think he CAN be a little bit of a challenge to Melky simply in the work ethic battle.
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:39 AM
While AJax has looked good defensively, he's looked worse overall at the plate than Gardner. He hasn't had a hit in ST yet (and considering he has yet to play in AA, that's not surprising). Meanwhile, Gardner has hit a little, but has had a lot of K's and hasn't looked as good defensively. I don't think Gardner is going to win the job this year, but I also think he CAN be a little bit of a challenge to Melky simply in the work ethic battle.
I don't think its fair to compare Gardner and AJax at this point. Ajax time is late 2009 on. Gardner's time almost certainly has to be now. People keep forgetting that the guy is already 24 years old. He's a full year older than Melky, and a 3.5 years older than AJax.
Retire21
03-04-08, 09:39 AM
he's looked pretty bad so far in ST... lots of hustle and little else
Bubba? :)
id bet my life that gardner wouldnt out OPS Melky in 2008. Gardner is a decent slap hitter but hes not aggressive enough. he takes too many called strikes and is liable to have the bat knocked out of his hands when challenged
hes got to bust out sometime
I don't know...I know about his comps to guys like Bernie Williams and Carlos Beltran, but he doesn't have anywhere near the same physique that those two had. I can't imagine him being any better than an average outfielder.
CallOfTheCrow
03-04-08, 09:40 AM
I don't know...I know about his comps to guys like Bernie Williams and Carlos Beltran, but he doesn't have anywhere near the same physique that those two had. I can't imagine him being any better than an average outfielder.
Who's compared him to Beltran?
I don't think its fair to compare Gardner and AJax at this point. Ajax time is late 2009 on. Gardner's time almost certainly has to be now. People keep forgetting that the guy is already 24 years old. He's a full year older than Melky, and a 3.5 years older than AJax.
Oh, I know. My point was simply to JWF who thought AJax would be the first "real" challange to Melky.
JL25and3
03-04-08, 09:43 AM
hes got to bust out sometimeOr else this is just how good he is.
Who's compared him to Beltran?
PECOTA:
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/2008/03/02/some-comparable-players/
Melky Cabrera - Carlos Beltran sits at #1, with Coco Crisp and Pete Rose immediately following, and Carl Yastrzemski, Nick Markakis, Reggie Smith, and Bernie Williams also coming up. Lesson: Wait 1 more year before knocking him off.
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:44 AM
Oh, I know. My point was simply to JWF who thought AJax would be the first "real" challange to Melky.
In my mind, I feel like the first real challenge might actually come from either outside the organization, or the moving of Damon back to CF (is that idea dead btw? Wasn't he brought in to play CF?).
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 09:46 AM
While AJax has looked good defensively, he's looked worse overall at the plate than Gardner. He hasn't had a hit in ST yet (and considering he has yet to play in AA, that's not surprising). Meanwhile, Gardner has hit a little, but has had a lot of K's and hasn't looked as good defensively. I don't think Gardner is going to win the job this year, but I also think he CAN be a little bit of a challenge to Melky simply in the work ethic battle.
Yes, but Jackson is, at the very least, a year away, and most likely two years away. People here are arguing that Gardner should win the job this year, and he clearly should not.
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 09:47 AM
Oh, I know. My point was simply to JWF who thought AJax would be the first "real" challange to Melky.
A couple years down the road, not now.
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 09:49 AM
In my mind, I feel like the first real challenge might actually come from either outside the organization, or the moving of Damon back to CF (is that idea dead btw? Wasn't he brought in to play CF?).
The problem with bringing someone from outside the organization is that it would probably take a multi-year deal, and if the organization does believe in Jackson (I guess some of that will depend on what he does this year), they wouldn't want to block him. And Damon can't cut it defensively in CF anymore.
justinvarnes
03-04-08, 09:58 AM
At first glance he just seems like another Bubba Crosby. Lots of speed/hustle but no pop in his bat.
I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems that way.
Why exchange him for Melky who has shown he is capable of playing on an average level on this team and plays solid D with a great and accurate arm? Melky has shown power and seems to fit well in the lienup in terms of balance. I just don't see the need to not give him another year to develop while they wait for Tabata and Jackson to develop.
At the least, let Gardner prove he can hit in AAA and let Melky show whether he's going to grow or stay where he is. There's no reason to switch them now, IMO.
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 09:58 AM
The problem with bringing someone from outside the organization is that it would probably take a multi-year deal, and if the organization does believe in Jackson (I guess some of that will depend on what he does this year), they wouldn't want to block him. And Damon can't cut it defensively in CF anymore.
Oh no, I'm on board with you. I'm in the Melky to Jackson camp. Call Gardner up in September when Melky forgets how to hit again. A .710 OPS is better than a .560 for that month. Could work too, a high energy player getting the call when everyone elses energy levels are low.
justinvarnes
03-04-08, 10:02 AM
Oh no, I'm on board with you. I'm in the Melky to Jackson camp. Call Gardner up in September when Melky forgets how to hit again. A .710 OPS is better than a .560 for that month. Could work too, a high energy player getting the call when everyone elses energy levels are low.
I like this plan.
In Melky's defense, he just finished his age 22 season. You have to go back to Mantle to find a Yankkee CF that had a better age 22 season. He may indeed be near his ceiling, but it seems a bit too early to assume it.
But Brett Gardner is clearly not that guy, at least not right now. And based on what he is doing in ST, it looks even more like he is not that guy.
While AJax has looked good defensively, he's looked worse overall at the plate than Gardner. He hasn't had a hit in ST yet (and considering he has yet to play in AA, that's not surprising).This is for both of you. Do people realize the Yankees have only played 3 ST games against major league teams and it's only March 4th?! ST has just started! So Austin Jackson hasn't had a hit yet in ST and has looked awful at the plate? Good gawd. He has only had 2 ABS! He has been up only twice! Did you want him to bat. 500 or 1.000?
And you are saying that Gardner is clearly not that guy based on ST? Based on what ST! The 5 abs he has had? Geez. Can we stop making snap judgments based on a few ST games in very early March? Please. This is ridiculous.
BRONXBOMBERS06
03-04-08, 10:33 AM
Gardner needs a full yr at AAA, prove he can hit at that level. I don't think his speed & D are a question.
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 10:39 AM
This is for both of you. Do people realize the Yankees have only played 3 ST games against major league teams and it's only March 4th?! ST has just started! So Austin Jackson hasn't had a hit yet in ST and has looked awful at the plate? Good gawd. He has only had 2 ABS! He has been up only twice!
And you are saying that Gardner is clearly not that guy based on ST? Based on what ST! The 5 abs he has had? Geez. Can we stop making snap judgments based on a few ST games in very early March? Please. This is ridiculous.
No, I'm not saying Brett Gardner is not the guy based on ST. I am saying it based on the fact that he hit .260/.343/.331 in AAA last year. That he has absolutely no power. That he strikes out a ton in the minors, which will affect his batting average. And in the majors, I don't think he will get on base nearly enough to be a good player. Until he shows he can hit in AAA, with a very high OBP, I do not think he'll be able to do it in the majors.
I could care less about spring training. My point was that I see nothing to show that he is better than Melky, and I'm not sure what anyone else can. It clearly isn't his age, it isn't what he did last year in AAA, and it isn't what he's done so far in ST.
Yankee Fan in Boston
03-04-08, 10:42 AM
Oh no, I'm on board with you. I'm in the Melky to Jackson camp. Call Gardner up in September when Melky forgets how to hit again. A .710 OPS is better than a .560 for that month. Could work too, a high energy player getting the call when everyone elses energy levels are low.
My take right now is that Gardner might end up being a great 4th outfielder, and possibly even better, but it's Melky's job for now.
Yankee Fan in Boston
03-04-08, 10:43 AM
This is for both of you. Do people realize the Yankees have only played 3 ST games against major league teams and it's only March 4th?! ST has just started! So Austin Jackson hasn't had a hit yet in ST and has looked awful at the plate? Good gawd. He has only had 2 ABS! He has been up only twice! Did you want him to bat. 500 or 1.000?
And you are saying that Gardner is clearly not that guy based on ST? Based on what ST! The 5 abs he has had? Geez. Can we stop making snap judgments based on a few ST games in very early March? Please. This is ridiculous.
And if he was hitting .500, would people be saying he should be the starter?
MTYankee23
03-04-08, 10:48 AM
My take right now is that Gardner might end up being a great 4th outfielder, and possibly even better, but it's Melky's job for now.
I could see Gardner and Melky actually having a great deal of value to the Yankees in '09 and '10 especially as they look to break in Jackson and Tabata (or at least I hope they're looking to add them.
Breyean
03-04-08, 10:49 AM
With the possibility of Matsui starting the season on the DL, it might open up a spot for a 4th OF on a temporary basis. So do they go with a veteran who they'd then have to cut into the season, or a young guy they can just send down to AAA?
Matsui might start the season the DL?
I thought word was he was going to be ready to play this week.
JL25and3
03-04-08, 10:50 AM
And if he was hitting .500, would people be saying he should be the starter?I think people would start feeling hopeful that maybe he'll produce in AAA.
primetime714
03-04-08, 10:58 AM
At first glance he just seems like another Bubba Crosby. Lots of speed/hustle but no pop in his bat.
I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems that way.
Why exchange him for Melky who has shown he is capable of playing on an average level on this team and plays solid D with a great and accurate arm? Melky has shown power and seems to fit well in the lienup in terms of balance. I just don't see the need to not give him another year to develop while they wait for Tabata and Jackson to develop.
At the least, let Gardner prove he can hit in AAA and let Melky show whether he's going to grow or stay where he is. There's no reason to switch them now, IMO.
You are wrong Gardner is far from another Bubba Crosby. He is extremely patient at the plate working a lot of walks and has incredible speed. While like Bubba Crosby he doesn't have power Gardner does hit for a better average. Oh and then there is the age factor. Bubba Crosby wasn't making the majors until his late 20's (a prototypical AAAA type player). Gardner is right on the cusp at age 24 (right around the average age for debut).
I agree he shouldn't replace Melky unless he really earns it or Melky craps the bed and needs to be removed. However Gardner is a solid prospect. Nothing special, but like Melky has a ceiling of a top of the lineup hitter, a floor of a good 4th OF, and projects probably as a bottom of the lineup hitter.
yanksphan
03-04-08, 10:59 AM
With the possibility of Matsui starting the season on the DL,
Where did you hear this?
BRNXBMRS
03-04-08, 11:04 AM
Or else this is just how good he is.
Which isnt bad.
justtxyank
03-04-08, 11:09 AM
Where did you hear this?
Pete Abraham has a hunch.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-04-08, 11:12 AM
Pete Abraham has lunch.
Fixed
Yankee Fan in Boston
03-04-08, 11:13 AM
I could see Gardner and Melky actually having a great deal of value to the Yankees in '09 and '10 especially as they look to break in Jackson and Tabata (or at least I hope they're looking to add them.
Agreed. Probably more likely in 2010, but I could see Jackson and Tabata in the outfield, and Melky involved in a deal. Obviously, a lot depends on the development of the prospects.
Pete Abraham has a hunch.
Has Abraham ever had a hunch that turned out true?
From what's been posted here, he's been wrong about pretty much everything this offseason.
Obviously they haven't played many Spring Training games. This is just a feeling I get from, y'know, actually watching the AB's that all of the players have had (I have MLB.tv and have been watching the games). Obviously all of this can change. I don't think DOOM for AJax -- just that he doesn't look ready for the majors yet (and it's not just about how he hasn't had a hit; he seems to be having issues with pitch recognition from the AB's I saw; in AA he'll be able to work on that).
I also don't think Gardner isn't "the guy" either. But he still appears to have the issue of taking too many called strike 3's (which has been in a big issue for him in the minors).
Look, obviously it's too early to give the starting CF job to anyone; this is just the perception that I have so far from watching the games. It can obviously change based on many factors.
rodney27nyg
03-04-08, 11:25 AM
Gardner is a September call-up to pinchrun and replace an OFer defensively in the 9th inning. Thats all I can picture for him this year...
Even injury would probably summon Lane from AAA before Gardner. Just my opinion.
yanksphan
03-04-08, 11:42 AM
Obviously they haven't played many Spring Training games. This is just a feeling I get from, y'know, actually watching the AB's that all of the players have had (I have MLB.tv and have been watching the games). Obviously all of this can change. I don't think DOOM for AJax -- just that he doesn't look ready for the majors yet (and it's not just about how he hasn't had a hit; he seems to be having issues with pitch recognition from the AB's I saw; in AA he'll be able to work on that).
I also don't think Gardner isn't "the guy" either. But he still appears to have the issue of taking too many called strike 3's (which has been in a big issue for him in the minors).
Look, obviously it's too early to give the starting CF job to anyone; this is just the perception that I have so far from watching the games. It can obviously change based on many factors.
Obviously. ;)
justinvarnes
03-04-08, 02:43 PM
You are wrong Gardner is far from another Bubba Crosby. He is extremely patient at the plate working a lot of walks and has incredible speed. While like Bubba Crosby he doesn't have power Gardner does hit for a better average. Oh and then there is the age factor. Bubba Crosby wasn't making the majors until his late 20's (a prototypical AAAA type player). Gardner is right on the cusp at age 24 (right around the average age for debut).
I agree he shouldn't replace Melky unless he really earns it or Melky craps the bed and needs to be removed. However Gardner is a solid prospect. Nothing special, but like Melky has a ceiling of a top of the lineup hitter, a floor of a good 4th OF, and projects probably as a bottom of the lineup hitter.
Thanks. His numbers don't jump out at me and all I see is speed, good D, mediocre AA numbers and weak AAA numbers (though in only 50 or so games). So I was looking for a better description of him.
DiMaggio5CF
03-04-08, 03:39 PM
Say what you want, but when Gardner is hitting .325, 15 HR, .425 OBP, 50 SB, I'll be the one laughing. I just hope he puts up those numbers for the Yankees.
Say what you want, but when Gardner is hitting .325, 5 HR, .425 OBP, 50 SB, I'll be the one laughing. I just hope he puts up those numbers for the Yankees.
I'll take this instead. Brett Gardner will never hit 15 HR's on any level.
DiMaggio5CF
03-04-08, 03:42 PM
I'll take this instead. Brett Gardner will never hit 15 HR's on any level.
Once he gets comfortable at the big league level and starts taking shots at the short right field porch, he'll knock 15 out of the park on a regular basis.
JeffWeaverFan
03-04-08, 03:45 PM
Say what you want, but when Gardner is hitting .325, 15 HR, .425 OBP, 50 SB, I'll be the one laughing. I just hope he puts up those numbers for the Yankees.
So he's going to be Rickey Henderson minus a few HR's and 30 less SB's a year?
Gardenr in CF, Melky in RF in 09
Yankees in 3rd!
In Mo I Trust
03-04-08, 03:49 PM
Say what you want, but when Gardner is hitting .325, 15 HR, .425 OBP, 50 SB, I'll be the one laughing. I just hope he puts up those numbers for the Yankees.
Nothing in his background is indicative of anything close to this type of production.
OldYankeeFan
03-04-08, 03:58 PM
Say what you want, but when Gardner is hitting .325, 15 HR, .425 OBP, 50 SB, I'll be the one laughing. I just hope he puts up those numbers for the Yankees.
How do you explain how he goes from a career MiLB avg of .289 to a MLB of .325?
DiMaggio5CF
03-04-08, 04:05 PM
So he's going to be Rickey Henderson minus a few HR's and 30 less SB's a year?
At the very least.
Nothing in his background is indicative of anything close to this type of production.
He has succeeded at every level. And he hasn't had the benefit of a short RF porch and a big LCF gap in the minors.
How do you explain how he goes from a career MiLB avg of .289 to a MLB of .325?
He's been jumping levels mid-season, and he takes a while to get adjusted. But he always does adjust. Once he gets acquainted to the big league level and is there for good with an everyday job, he'll hit a minimum of .300.
Once he gets comfortable at the big league level and starts taking shots at the short right field porch, he'll knock 15 out of the park on a regular basis.
I like Gardner, and I saw him play maybe 25 games in college (he played a bunch of games in the Yankee affiliate ballpark in charleston, by the way). He's a phenomenal defender, and he handles the bat well. To be honest, I think he's Brett Butler more than anyone else. He doesn't have the raw strength for power, and if he hits the ball in the air he's not going to be very successful. I'd be surprised if he ever really hit consistently into the double digits in HR.
teknetic
03-04-08, 04:15 PM
Say what you want, but when Gardner is hitting .325, 15 HR, .425 OBP, 50 SB, I'll be the one laughing. I just hope he puts up those numbers for the Yankees.
So essentially Ichiro with more power (minus a few points off the BA)? Sounds highly reasonable.
DiMaggio5CF
03-04-08, 04:16 PM
I'd be surprised if he ever really hit consistently into the double digits in HR.
He might even hit triple digits.
flymick24
03-04-08, 04:55 PM
he might just play every position himself and go 162-0
Yankyfan
03-04-08, 04:56 PM
I love Brett but he's most likely not going to hit 15 Hr's in a season. At least not anytime soon.
JfromJersey
03-04-08, 05:01 PM
Gardenr in CF, Melky in RF in 09
With all that money coming off the books next year, you really think the Yankees won't try to sign a prominent outfielder to celebrate the opening of the new stadium? Next year I see the Yankees being very active in the FA market, or trading for potential FAs that will demand big contracts.
BxBomber44
03-04-08, 05:20 PM
I say a prayer everyday that he is our starting CF instead of Melky.
did melky key your car or something...nevermind dont answer that. i don't want to be that guy that starts you up again over melky
DiMaggio5CF
03-04-08, 05:35 PM
he might just play every position himself and go 162-0
We're basically looking at Gardner vs Ellsbury for the Pennant every year for the next two decades.
That's all I'm sayin'.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-04-08, 05:42 PM
did melky key your car or something...nevermind dont answer that. i don't want to be that guy that starts you up again over melky
Couldn't you of just deleted your post then?
He's looking a bit fat imo.
Once he gets comfortable at the big league level and starts taking shots at the short right field porch, he'll knock 15 out of the park on a regular basis.
we've missed you, hughes2.50
TheYankee
03-04-08, 11:32 PM
I'm still holding out hope that our primary outfield alignment will be:
LF- Matsui
CF- Damon
RF- Abreu
Nothing against Melky, but those are our three best hitters, period. Melky is great as a 4th outfielder. If he's in the lineup, I'm not going to cry, but Damon is still the better hitter. He didn't play well last year... I don't expect that to carry over into this one.
27IsNext
03-05-08, 12:06 AM
I'm still holding out hope that our primary outfield alignment will be:
LF- Matsui
CF- Damon
RF- Abreu
Nothing against Melky, but those are our three best hitters, period. Melky is great as a 4th outfielder. If he's in the lineup, I'm not going to cry, but Damon is still the better hitter. He didn't play well last year... I don't expect that to carry over into this one.
Melky's fine in center if he continues to play good defense. That said, it's doubtful he's the long-term solution there.
surge511
03-05-08, 01:52 AM
If you want those hitters in the lineup, then:
Damon - LF
Melky - CF
Abreu - RF
Matsui - DH
Giambi - 1B
If everyone is healthy, that is the alignment we will see more often than not. I can definitely see Gardner making the team as a 5th OFer if we keep one, although Lane/Shelley could probably fill that role as well.
Posada_20
03-05-08, 09:38 AM
With all that money coming off the books next year, you really think the Yankees won't try to sign a prominent outfielder to celebrate the opening of the new stadium? Next year I see the Yankees being very active in the FA market, or trading for potential FAs that will demand big contracts.
I think they might go hard after Texiera and Sabathia instead.
primetime714
03-05-08, 12:14 PM
With all that money coming off the books next year, you really think the Yankees won't try to sign a prominent outfielder to celebrate the opening of the new stadium? Next year I see the Yankees being very active in the FA market, or trading for potential FAs that will demand big contracts.
OF? They could try to bring Abreu back on a 1-2 year deal, but they are going to try to avoid locking up any of the OF positions for an extended period of time with Jackson and Tabata both about 1-2 years away. Besides after Abreu there are few OF options we'd be interested in FA next year as the best of the bunch are Adam Dunn and Manny Ramirez (If the Sox don't pickup his 20M option which they very well could do). Both of them play LF and a terrible LF at that. We'll still have Damon and Matsui signed for next year. The Angels have an option on Vlad and they'll take it so he won't be available. The Red have an option on Griffey which they might take, but I don't think we'd want him anyway.
Sabathia and Teixeira will be the major targets in FA. Along with possible bullpen options such as Fuentes or Marte. After that there isn't much else worth spending money on. Maybe Ben Sheets, but I don't think we could trust him to stay healthy even if he does so this year.
I think they might go hard after Texiera and Sabathia instead.
I agree, the yanks can always re sign abreu or find someone to plug the outfield spots but 1B and the lack of an ace have been 2 gaping holes for to long. However, I dont think Gardner is the answer in the outfield, unless Melky gets traded and we need a speedy CF.
indianyanksfan
03-06-08, 10:10 PM
so jackson/melky/tabata outfield in 2010? sounds good.
dont_ya_know24
03-06-08, 10:21 PM
so jackson/melky/tabata outfield in 2010? sounds good.
from left to right i'm thinking melky/jackson/tabata.
in like 4 years or so, it could be DeLeon/jackson/tabata
ARoDfan4life
03-06-08, 10:29 PM
so jackson/melky/tabata outfield in 2010? sounds good.
more like
Melky/Jackson/Tabata
TheInfallibleOne
03-06-08, 10:44 PM
Once he gets comfortable at the big league level and starts taking shots at the short right field porch, he'll knock 15 out of the park on a regular basis.
So youre saying that despite his profound lack of power, and his .289 ish average in the minors, he will hit MORE homers than Cano in each of his first 2 years, even though Cano was the better prospect projected to hit for plenty of power?
Both are left handed....
i dont see gardner with a future on this team. Not with AJax and Tabata coming up.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
03-07-08, 12:25 AM
more like
Melky/Jackson/TabataOr Tabata/Jackson/Melky
Or Tabata/Jackson/Melky
Tabata's moving to LF?
RollingWave
03-07-08, 05:09 AM
in YS. having a strong arm in LF is actually a good idea. (or let's be frank here. if everything else is equal obviously you would LOVE to have a good OF in ALL 3 outfield spot)
I agree, the yanks can always re sign abreu or find someone to plug the outfield spots but 1B and the lack of an ace have been 2 gaping holes for to long. However, I dont think Gardner is the answer in the outfield, unless Melky gets traded and we need a speedy CF.
After Hughes and Joba get into a rhythm in the Majors, we will have the ACE we need. Probably 2 of them.
MTYankee23
03-07-08, 08:51 AM
After Hughes and Joba get into a rhythm in the Majors, we will have the ACE we need. Probably 2 of them.
If all goes as planned, that would give us 3 pitchers in or around the top 14 in the AL. Now, maybe you (not you personally mbn, others on the board), that only the top 5 in each league are ACES. Then having 3 pitchers in the top 14, gives you, by definition, 3 #1's.
If all goes as planned, that would give us 3 pitchers in or around the top 14 in the AL. Now, maybe you (not you personally mbn, others on the board), that only the top 5 in each league are ACES. Then having 3 pitchers in the top 14, gives you, by definition, 3 #1's.
I guess that you are including Wang in this group of 3. I consider him a top of the rotation pitcher, but not a true ACE. He is in that next level, just below the "elite" status. Still very highly rated, IMO. In all of Baseball, and the exact number is a great discussion for another time, there are probably 8-10 guys who are truly ACE material at this time. The league they are in matters not. Just their ability, and results. And I am hoping we add 2 more to that list in the very near future, with Phil and Joba.
Posada_20
03-07-08, 03:07 PM
Brett with 2 XBHs today. Count em TWO!!!!!!!!!!!! double and triple.
MTYankee23
03-07-08, 03:12 PM
I guess that you are including Wang in this group of 3. I consider him a top of the rotation pitcher, but not a true ACE. He is in that next level, just below the "elite" status. Still very highly rated, IMO. In all of Baseball, and the exact number is a great discussion for another time, there are probably 8-10 guys who are truly ACE material at this time. The league they are in matters not. Just their ability, and results. And I am hoping we add 2 more to that list in the very near future, with Phil and Joba.
I'm on board with you here. I just laugh when people describe Wang as a 2-3 guy. He's a 1. He might not be an ace, and I'd say a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's so dependent on defense.
ARoDfan4life
03-07-08, 03:42 PM
in YS. having a strong arm in LF is actually a good idea. (or let's be frank here. if everything else is equal obviously you would LOVE to have a good OF in ALL 3 outfield spot)
you do know Tabata's arm >>> Melky, I'd rather have his arm in RF, cut the doubles from both sides
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-07-08, 03:50 PM
you do know Tabata's arm >>> Melky,
Highly highly highly doubt that
ARoDfan4life
03-07-08, 04:11 PM
Highly highly highly doubt that
he has the same arm strength Melky had at his age and still has room to improve he's average to above average. Melky has that same type of arm damn I wish I could show you that proof on video.
comments from Yankee Tradition on a 17 yr. old Tabata
Tabata, who plays for the Yankees "A" ball affiliate, the Charleston River Dogs, was a standout in the game. First off, the kid has an "Alfonso Soriano" body. I saw him make two bullet throws in the outfield. Let me put it this way, neither Ichiro nor Vlad Guerrero have anything on this kid in the arm department. He doesn't have a gun. He has an accurate rifle.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-07-08, 04:34 PM
And who is Yankee Tradition? There is no way Tabata's arm is better then Melky's and this is coming from a guy who loves Tabata and doesn't like Melky. Melky has one of the better arms in the baseball. Its extremely strong and extremely accurate.
When JVIS is defending Melky, concede. Just on principle.
neither Ichiro nor Vlad Guerrero have anything on this kid in the arm department.
Yeah, right.
ARoDfan4life
03-07-08, 04:50 PM
And who is Yankee Tradition? There is no way Tabata's arm is better then Melky's and this is coming from a guy who loves Tabata and doesn't like Melky. Melky has one of the better arms in the baseball. Its extremely strong and extremely accurate.
it's an MLB Blog but if it's wrong and you want the site to rant to them by all means google them. Everywhere I read they said COF more RF for Tabata. I know for a fact his arm isn't better than Calzado but Melky I think he's neck n' neck with. I'll do more research and ask around.
nnysiny
03-07-08, 06:13 PM
he has the same arm strength Melky had at his age and still has room to improve he's average to above average. Melky has that same type of arm damn I wish I could show you that proof on video.
comments from Yankee Tradition on a 17 yr. old Tabata
and you believe that quote?
ARoDfan4life
03-07-08, 08:59 PM
and you believe that quote?
I only saw 1 video of Tabata throwing and I think it was a SAL league video, he had a gun from RF a bit better than Abreu, if your telling me the scouting report was wrong then I will have to take your word for it because I haven't seen many tapes of him throwing.
flymick24
03-08-08, 12:15 AM
tabata has the arm strength of 6.75 bernies
do the math
Jerkface
03-08-08, 01:31 AM
Has Abraham ever had a hunch that turned out true?
No, but he has had brunches and lunches that turned out to be delicious.
cyhughes22
03-08-08, 11:00 AM
tabata has the arm strength of 6.75 bernies
do the math
So he's still got less arm strength than Melky. I agree with Sahara too, there is no way in hell he has the arm that Ichiro has, let alone Guerrero who has the strongest arm in the history of baseball, period.
metalboy15
03-08-08, 11:08 AM
Tabata has a better arm than Abreu.
Better than Melky's?...
Nope.
Brett threw another guy out today. That is at least 2 so far this spring. Not bad considering the amount of time he has played in the field.
flymick24
03-13-08, 03:41 PM
he's also been hitting better... should make a great 4th OFer at some point this year
Yankee Fan in Boston
03-13-08, 03:44 PM
he's also been hitting better... should make a great 4th OFer at some point this year
If there are no inujuries, I wouldn't think that would be till late in the year -- they won't want to bring him up to have him sit when he could use the AAA at-bats. But I like the idea in general -- with his speed, I love him as a 4th OF eventually.
teknetic
03-14-08, 01:01 PM
He needs to be on the team. He's shown rather good patience and the ability to nearly steal at will with our offense would be huge.
flymick24
03-14-08, 01:05 PM
i want him on the team, but not as a starter, and not at the expense of someone like ensberg
b_joseph
03-14-08, 01:20 PM
I hope he gets a chance to show his stuff now that Melky is suspended to start the year.
ARoDfan4life
03-14-08, 01:29 PM
he most likely will start in AAA and get more playing time, there is no sense in wasting him on the bench, if anything Justin Christian will fill the 4 OF role Brett will come up when he is needed and improves his game.
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-14-08, 01:31 PM
Gardner 1 for 1, with 2 SB, 1 BB, 1 run scored, and 1 RBI so far, bringing his Spring Training average up to .389.
CommerceComet
03-14-08, 01:42 PM
let alone Guerrero who has the strongest arm in the history of baseball, period.The family of Roberto Clemente would like to have a word with you.
I'm on board with you here. I just laugh when people describe Wang as a 2-3 guy. He's a 1. He might not be an ace, and I'd say a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's so dependent on defense.
To me, to be a WS contender, a 1 has got to be an ace.
ArodMVP217
03-14-08, 11:51 PM
I guess that you are including Wang in this group of 3. I consider him a top of the rotation pitcher, but not a true ACE. He is in that next level, just below the "elite" status. Still very highly rated, IMO. In all of Baseball, and the exact number is a great discussion for another time, there are probably 8-10 guys who are truly ACE material at this time. The league they are in matters not. Just their ability, and results. And I am hoping we add 2 more to that list in the very near future, with Phil and Joba.
so, by your definition, say theoretically, with wang's slider he ups his k total/yr to 180 or k/9 to 7.8, would he be an ace then? Just so you know, if this change were to happen in the next 2 yrs min., he wouldn't up his win total to 23 (EDIT: nor his era to 2.79), just keep that in mind.
MassNYYfan
03-15-08, 07:41 PM
If he had a girly name that ended in Y he'd be Jesus, Jr.
:P
yank4life2005
03-15-08, 07:44 PM
Perhaps next year Gardner can play CF and slide Melky to LF while Matsui DH's
BomberBrian
03-15-08, 08:04 PM
Perhaps next year Gardner can play CF and slide Melky to LF while Matsui DH's
i don't think you can play the 2 of them in the same OF.
yank4life2005
03-15-08, 08:19 PM
i don't think you can play the 2 of them in the same OF.
They both have good speed and Abreu will likely return for 2009.
They both have good speed and Abreu will likely return for 2009.
I think his point was that an OF with Melky and Gardner would be offensively anemic. You really expect better offensive numbers from a LF than Melky would give you.
i don't think you can play the 2 of them in the same OF.
I don't think it's certain that you can play one of them in a Yankee OF.
Yankees1962
03-16-08, 08:07 AM
I don't think it's certain that you can play one of them in a Yankee OF.
I thought you were a Melky guy and thought he was the Yankees best defensive outfielder? Or do you think Jackson and/or Tabata with better offensive potential will be ready next season?
BabyPinstripes85
03-16-08, 02:55 PM
This guy deserves to be our fifth outfielder or Austin Jackson!
This guy deserves to be our fifth outfielder or Austin Jackson!
Maybe 5th outfielder, but no way does he deserve to be Austin Jackson.
Get your own 5 tools, Brett. ;)
I thought you were a Melky guy and thought he was the Yankees best defensive outfielder? Or do you think Jackson and/or Tabata with better offensive potential will be ready next season?
I am, but if he can't put up an OPS that is > .800 (including a SLG% > .400), he should not start for the Yankees, and I will have been wrong, yet again.
I definitely think that both A-Jack and Tabata have far more upside potential (I'm not sure of the timetable, but I can see A-Jack coming quickly if in fact the light has gone on, as it appeared to when he was promoted to Tampa last summer).
If he had a girly name that ended in Y he'd be Jesus, Jr.
:P
Then I hereby rename him Betty Gardner.
rodney27nyg
03-17-08, 02:29 AM
i don't think you can play the 2 of them in the same OF.
I agree. You need more offensive production from what they both can give. If you sacrifice one of the OF positions for defense...you can get away with it...but two light hitting OFers in the same line up would be hard to justify.
so, by your definition, say theoretically, with wang's slider he ups his k total/yr to 180 or k/9 to 7.8, would he be an ace then? Just so you know, if this change were to happen in the next 2 yrs min., he wouldn't up his win total to 23 (EDIT: nor his era to 2.79), just keep that in mind.
Wang is close, but just not in the top group at this time. Not a knock against him, but he is on the next level, which still isn't bad.
speedyg
03-17-08, 07:31 PM
What does Wang have to do with Gardner?
What does Wang have to do with Gardner?
They're just friends.
marshcat
03-18-08, 10:05 AM
Gardner has really impressed me these past couple games. He's fast with a good bat and good arm. I can definitely see him playing a part in the Yankees outfield. I see Gardner, Jackson, and Tabata having more potential than Melky.
ARoDfan4life
03-18-08, 10:29 AM
Gardner has really impressed me these past couple games. He's fast with a good bat and good arm. I can definitely see him playing a part in the Yankees outfield. I see Gardner, Jackson, and Tabata having more potential than Melky.
stop cutting Melky short neither 3 have a better arm, Melky actually has a HR to his name in the postseason, he continues to evolve his game and is what 22/23 yrs. old, what is there not to like about him ? how can they have that much more potential if he's already in the ML and they're still in the minors until then you can't put Gardner over him although his speed is better than alot of ML players, you can't put Action above him until he shows he can get to the next level, Tabata can't be spoken over Melky until he shows his potential.
I expect Melky to have a breakout season this yr., he's going to fight for his job for the first time in a long time and don't ever count that kid out, he's a fighter.
stop cutting Melky short neither 3 have a better arm, Melky actually has a HR to his name in the postseason, he continues to evolve his game and is what 22/23 yrs. old, what is there not to like about him ? how can they have that much more potential if he's already in the ML and they're still in the minors until then you can't put Gardner over him although his speed is better than alot of ML players, you can't put Action above him until he shows he can get to the next level, Tabata can't be spoken over Melky until he shows his potential.
I expect Melky to have a breakout season this yr., he's going to fight for his job for the first time in a long time and don't ever count that kid out, he's a fighter.
Melky is a good player , and Gardner also looks like he could be a good player. They have to be compared to each other though because theres no way we can have both in a starting outfield. It pretty much has to be one or the other. Unless Melky can really show some increased power then theres just no way we could get by offensively with a Gardner, Melky outfield.
ARoDfan4life
03-18-08, 11:07 AM
Melky is a good player , and Gardner also looks like he could be a good player. They have to be compared to each other though because theres no way we can have both in a starting outfield. It pretty much has to be one or the other. Unless Melky can really show some increased power then theres just no way we could get by offensively with a Gardner, Melky outfield.
actually quite the opposite, the power isn't that much of an issue they just need to hit w/ RISP a perfect example of that is a guy like Jeter, not really a power guy but can spray the ball into the gaps w/ RISP, so the ideal thing would be Gardner, Melky, Action all in the OF and hitting doubles w/ RISP and getting on base more times than a power bat, then there is Tabata who most likely won't be here until 09/'10
actually quite the opposite, the power isn't that much of an issue they just need to hit w/ RISP a perfect example of that is a guy like Jeter, not really a power guy but can spray the ball into the gaps w/ RISP, so the ideal thing would be Gardner, Melky, Action all in the OF and hitting doubles w/ RISP and getting on base more times than a power bat, then there is Tabata who most likely won't be here until 09/'10
True, and dont get me wrong I like the idea of having a diverse offense with a lot of gap to gap hitters who hit for a high RISP, however I still think a team needs at least a few power bats and those usually come from one of the corner outfield spots. If Melky could be an Abreu type hitter who doesnt necessarily hit a ton of homers but drives in a lot of runs Id be all for that but he has to show some signs that he can be that type of hitter if he is a long term solution in the outfield.
NewEraYanks2527
03-18-08, 11:21 AM
True, and dont get me wrong I like the idea of having a diverse offense with a lot of gap to gap hitters who hit for a high RISP, however I still think a team needs at least a few power bats and those usually come from one of the corner outfield spots. If Melky could be an Abreu type hitter who doesnt necessarily hit a ton of homers but drives in a lot of runs Id be all for that but he has to show some signs that he can be that type of hitter if he is a long term solution in the outfield.
If Melky can hit .275-.300 and drive in runs and hit 10-15 home runs a year I would take that out of right field especially considering his arm and youth. Personally I think he is only going to get better and become more disciplined at the plate and hit for a higher average soon as well as become a better defensive outfielder, but that's just my humble opinion.
If Melky can hit .275-.300 and drive in runs and hit 10-15 home runs a year I would take that out of right field especially considering his arm and youth. Personally I think he is only going to get better and become more disciplined at the plate and hit for a higher average soon as well as become a better defensive outfielder, but that's just my humble opinion.
You are not alone with that opinion. I also think the power will improve as he gets more time under his belt, and also matures a bit. Not 30 HR stuff, but mid to upper teens.
marshcat
03-18-08, 12:39 PM
I'd like to see melky shine this season. He's got his spot in the lineup, let's see him earn it.
Gardner's speed can get him more infield singles. He can then steal second.
I'm not 100% on it, but isn't Gardner hitting .400+ in ST?
indianyanksfan
03-18-08, 01:20 PM
melky rules!
Yankees1962
03-18-08, 01:24 PM
melky rules!
I hope this is Melky's breakout season.
indianyanksfan
03-18-08, 01:25 PM
I hope this is Melky's breakout season.
me too but he did get worn out the last month of the season last year. hopefully he'll be able to get some rest so he wont tire out so easily.
Yankees1962
03-18-08, 01:31 PM
me too but he did get worn out the last month of the season last year. hopefully he'll be able to get some rest so he wont tire out so easily.
At his age, he shouldn't be worn out.
indianyanksfan
03-18-08, 01:34 PM
At his age, he shouldn't be worn out.
true but he did have a horrible sept swoon. hopefully his conditioning is better this year.
ARoDfan4life
03-23-08, 09:21 PM
“It’s not a knock against Melky Cabrera or Johnny Damon or whoever happens to be out there,” Gardner said. “Obviously, that’s their job now. But I know if it were my job, someone else would be behind me wanting my job, too. Ever since I got drafted, that’s been my goal.”
source (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/sports/baseball/24yankees.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)
he knows their name :eek:
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-23-08, 09:26 PM
Is it me or does Melky look a bit heavier?
flymick24
03-23-08, 10:18 PM
it's your haterade
Muscle weight from following A-Rod's workout regimen?
I think he actually looks slightly slimmer in today's game on YES than he did most of last year.
BRNXBMRS
03-24-08, 08:35 AM
Nice read on Gardner.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/sports/baseball/24yankees.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin
YanksFan1992
03-26-08, 01:21 PM
Looks like something happened to Gardner today, as he was bleeding pretty badly from the mouth and was pulled from the game.
I am not sure what happened, but hopefully he's okay. :eek:
Pete Abe says he fouled a ball into his face
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-26-08, 01:24 PM
Pete Abe says he fouled a ball into his face
How'd the ball look?
whoisthedogg
03-26-08, 02:03 PM
How'd the ball look?
That really shouldn't be funny... but well placed my friend... well placed
YanksFan1992
03-26-08, 09:48 PM
Good news, according to Abraham he only had a split lower lip.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/03/26/a-few-updates-from-clearwater/
flymick24
03-27-08, 06:29 PM
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Portals/Emedia/blogs/Gardner%20lip.jpg
^
This post would have been apt here too:
he looked good early on in spring, but towards the end, he just became straight up disgusting
That's what he gets for hitting the ball hard for once.
flymick24
03-27-08, 06:35 PM
that picture actually makes me hungry for some pudding
JavyVazquezIsSick
03-27-08, 07:49 PM
Thats a mean case of herpes
Thats a mean case of herpesYikes, and right after he took you up on that double date with Nome and Andy Phillips. Bad timing. ;)
YanksFan1992
03-30-08, 12:20 AM
Cashman said he expects Gardner to make an impact with the Yankees this year.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/03/30/brian-cashman-answers-your-questions/
Can you name the minor league position player who you believe will make an impact with the Yankees this year? Anybody in particular who has caught your eye?
Brian Cashman: “Brett Gardner.”
Barring an injury or an unimaginable leap in development, particularly with regard to SLG, I can see him playing a Dave Robers-like role circa the 2004 Sox, but not much more.
JeffWeaverFan
03-30-08, 01:47 AM
Barring an injury or an unimaginable leap in development, particularly with regard to SLG, I can see him playing a Dave Robers-like role circa the 2004 Sox, but not much more.
Agreed, and if you think about Cashman's possible choices when answering that question, Gardner is the only real possible answer. Miranda might have been another choice, but there are about 4 guys ahead of him.
CommerceComet
03-31-08, 06:04 PM
So he's still got less arm strength than Melky. I agree with Sahara too, there is no way in hell he has the arm that Ichiro has, let alone Guerrero who has the strongest arm in the history of baseball, period.While Vlad has a great arm, I think you greatly overrate it. On Friday, the USA Today had a preview of the AL West and included the results of a player poll. The players voted Ichiro the strongest arm by a wide margin. Vlad was tied for a distant second. Apparently, Vlad's competition isn't quite as impressed as you are.
Vlad's arm isn't what it used to be, but Ichiro's is so strong that Vlad's in his prime was probably just on par with it
CommerceComet
04-01-08, 09:07 AM
Vlad's arm isn't what it used to be, but Ichiro's is so strong that Vlad's in his prime was probably just on par with itThis might be old fogyism on my part but I don't think that Vlad's arm (in his prime) nor Ichiro's was the equal of Roberto Clemente's. BTW, this is not to diminish the arms of any of these guys, all of whom are in the high 90's part of a 100-point scale of throwing arms.
While Vlad has a great arm, I think you greatly overrate it. On Friday, the USA Today had a preview of the AL West and included the results of a player poll. The players voted Ichiro the strongest arm by a wide margin. Vlad was tied for a distant second. Apparently, Vlad's competition isn't quite as impressed as you are.
I think that rating has more to do with the fact that Ichiro's throws are actually accurate as well as high in velocity. I think Guerrero probably has a better arm, but is very inaccurate with his throws.
CommerceComet
04-01-08, 10:12 AM
I think that rating has more to do with the fact that Ichiro's throws are actually accurate as well as high in velocity. I think Guerrero probably has a better arm, but is very inaccurate with his throws.I think that you mean that Guerrero has a stronger throwing arm resulting in higher velocity.
In assessing better, accuracy has to be an element. It doesn't matter if someone can throw the ball 110 mph if he misses the target. Someone who throws 90 mph but on target has just made a much better throw.
In terms of the combination of accuracy and strength of the throwing arm, I would rate Ichiro as superior to Vlad now and very possibly even with Vlad at his best.
I think that you mean that Guerrero has a stronger throwing arm resulting in higher velocity.
In assessing better, accuracy has to be an element. It doesn't matter if someone can throw the ball 110 mph if he misses the target. Someone who throws 90 mph but on target has just made a much better throw.
In terms of the combination of accuracy and strength of the throwing arm, I would rate Ichiro as superior to Vlad now and very possibly even with Vlad at his best.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Should have been clearer. I meant stronger as in velocity for Guerrero. Basically I agree with everything you said.
THEBOSS84
04-02-08, 09:26 AM
Have at it:
http://nomaas.org/gardner.html
From NoMass.
justinvarnes
04-02-08, 09:31 AM
I remember Vlad standing on the sidelines at YS and throwing a ball over the RF fence.
Nothing really to add other than this stronger arm talk made me think of that.
Oh, and the exchange from #162 (Rich) to #166 (False1)?
Priceless.
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