Are the so called minor league experts biased? [Archive]

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budstinks

12-22-07, 03:22 AM

I've been trying to figure this out. What got me started was how awful the BA NYPL rankings were. Mainly, so heavily slanted to highly mediocre Red Sox players.

Here is the guy that did the BA NYPL write up. I was wondering why that leagues rankings were so screwed up and pro-redsox.

Having Bentence where he was as compared to the Sox prospects was a crime.

By Aaron Fitt, Baseball America
...
Aaron Fitt, originally from Westminster, Massachusetts, is a professional sports writer for Baseball America and lives in Chapel Hill, NC. In his spare time, he likes to travel around to national parks and go to music concerts.

Not to mention that Fitt is the college baseball lead writer. Why the heck does someone who gets paid (probably chump change) to follow College baseball is doing the write up on the NYPL.

Then I just started looking up some of the guru's and stuff. I always knew Bill James was a huge Red Sox homer. Nor surprise there. But then I started looking around more.

Eddie Epstein - stat guru, mlb executive for Balt in 80's and Padres in 90's.

Theo Epstein - Two huge mentors while in SD, Eddie Epstein/Kevin Towers

Eddie Epstein co-authored books with Bill James and stated this.

Who's been your most influential mentor?
Eddie Epstein: Bill James' work has been my biggest influence.

Rob Neyer has co-authored several books with Eddie Epstein all the way back into the mid 90's.

Rob Neyer and John Sickels co-authored books all the way back in the mid-90's.

All these guys are Bill James disciples and FOT's. Friends of Theo's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law
Keith Law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#searchInput)
Keith Law is a baseball writer for ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN)'s Scouts, Inc. He was formerly a writer for Baseball Prospectus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Prospectus) and worked in the front office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_office) for the Toronto Blue Jays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Blue_Jays).
Keith Law was born and raised in Smithtown, New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithtown%2C_New_York) on Long Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-bb2003) He graduated with honors from Harvard University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_University) and received his Master of Business Administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Business_Administration) from Carnegie Mellon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Mellon)'s Tepper School of Business (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepper_School_of_Business).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-bb2003)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-bw) He began writing for Baseball Prospectus in 1997.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-bb2003) Unlike many other Baseball Prospectus authors, Law's primary influence was not Bill James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_James), but Eddie Epstein, the writer of the first STATS, Inc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STATS%2C_Inc.) Minor League Scouting Notebook.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-bp-goodbye) In 2002, Law was hired by the Toronto Blue Jays as a "Consultant to Baseball Operations" after impressing Blue Jays' general manager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_manager) J. P. Ricciardi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._P._Ricciardi) during the offseason winter meetings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_meetings).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-neyer) During his time with the Blue Jays, he acted as a scout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_%28sports%29), contract negotiator, and provided assistance to the team's marketing and sales staffs.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-bw) Law reached the position of Special Assistant to the GM before resigning in 2006.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-mlb-pressrelease) His baseball blog generated minor controversy when he posted that "[center fielder] Vernon Wells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Wells) has told Blue Jays' management that he has no intention of signing a contract extension to stay in Toronto."[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-mlb-deny) The team denied that such a conversation ever took place.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-mlb-deny)
In December 2007, Law was declined admission to the Baseball Writers Association of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Writers_Association_of_America), members of whom vote for Baseball Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame) candidates and several annual awards including the Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) and Cy Young Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cy_Young_Award).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-biz) While 16 other internet baseball columnists were admitted in their first year of eligibility, ESPN's Law and Rob Neyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Neyer) were refused due to the BBWAA's perception that Law and Neyer did not attend enough games in person.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law#_note-biz)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Neyer

Rob Neyer (born 1966 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966)) is a baseball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball) author and, since 1996, a columnist for ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN).com. Until 2004, Neyer's work was available without subscription, but it is now part of the Insider service and can be read only upon payment. A disciple of sabermetrics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabermetrics) legend Bill James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_James), his column is an outlet for everyday fans to gain from the insight that statistics-centered analysis can offer. His books include Feeding the Green Monster, Rob Neyer's Big Book of Baseball Lineups, Baseball Dynasties (co-authored with Eddie Epstein), The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neyer/James_Guide_to_Pitchers) (co-authored with Bill James), and Rob Neyer's Big Book of Baseball Blunders. Most recently, he contributed an essay, the Bill James Way of Life, to the collection How Bill James Changed Our View of the Game of Baseball, published in March 2007 by ACTA Sports.
Neyer grew up in the Midwest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest) rooting for the Kansas City Royals. He attended the University of Kansas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kansas) for four years, but did not graduate. Neyer got his start in baseball as James's research assistant, and later worked for STATS, Inc. before going to work for ESPNet SportsZone (which a few years later became ESPN.com).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Neyer#_note-tht-interview)

Neyer, though considered controversial at times, has emerged as an important role model to younger baseball analysts looking to maintain the rigor and imagination of James' seminal work.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] He is regularly cited in the "Keeping Score" column in the New York Times and elsewhere. Bill James describes him as "the best of the new generation of sportswriters. In December 2007, Neyer was declined admission to the Baseball Writers Association of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Writers_Association_of_America), members of whom vote for Baseball Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame) candidates and several annual awards including the Most Valuable Player (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) and Cy Young Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cy_Young_Award).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Neyer#_note-biz) While 16 other internet baseball columnists were admitted in their first year of eligibility, ESPN's Neyer and Keith Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Law) were refused due to the BBWAA's perception that Law and Neyer did not attend enough games in person.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Neyer#_note-biz)

Neyer is my age and I grew up HATING the Royals and George Brett. And can only imagine the hatred for anything Yankee by ANY Royals fan that grew up during that era. 

P. S. - Billy got SCREWED when MLB overruled the pine par game. 

So what the heck is going on. I know Theo's grandfather wrote Casablanca, and his dad is a writing theory teacher at Boston Univ. Are there any other connections that I don't know about.

Just things that make me go hmmm. 

If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck? Is it a duck?

Skars

12-22-07, 06:00 AM

Honestly I think this is pathetic and you should pretend like you didn't take the time to copy/paste their biographies. Everyone is not out to get the Yankees. If Jim Caple were writing the BA lists, I'd probably be a little curious. Otherwise, this is unbelievable. Sickels does dislike the Yankees but he's not messing with their rankings on purpose. In general he doesnt compare players between systems when he assigns the grades. Getting all offended because a C+ in our system is as good as a B- in the Sox system really isn't worth the time of day.

Prison Mike

12-22-07, 08:41 AM

primetime714

12-22-07, 01:02 PM

trapper700

12-22-07, 01:16 PM

also it doesn't matter what these guys think, as long as the yankees are properly evaluating players' talent

Shinebox

12-22-07, 02:18 PM

who cares if they are?
they don't actually have any effect on how these players develop.

wouldn't let it bother you...

btw, Keith Law has said before that he grew up a Yankees fan.

Mark19

12-22-07, 03:49 PM

This is why the next Yankee WS Championship is going to be that much sweeter.

Aviezer

12-22-07, 05:55 PM

This whole "everybody is out to screw the Yankees" talk has gotten out of control. Believe it or not, these experts know more than 99.9% of us on this site- and if they like Masterson a tick more than Horne, then so be it.

Ultimately, if/once these guys reach the majors we'll find out who was right. Until then, this A-, B+ stuff is all just message board fodder.

It depends on how you look at prospecting.

If you are going from a SABR perspective then we could be just as well versed as the experts.

If we are going by scouting then we are unlikely to be in the same position.

Then again we have seen situations when the scouts have been just as wrong as us.

Alan Horne's velocity comes to mind.

We know from first hand(74nole) reports that he hits 94 95. Kieth Law has maintained that he has a lower velocity based on scoreboard velocity readings. The kicker, Riverside Park has no scorebaoard.

I would not write off our opnion just b/c "they know more".

Besides it would take away all the fun.:)

Skars

12-22-07, 05:56 PM

This is why the next Yankee WS Championship is going to be that much sweeter.

because of whiny fans?

Skars

12-22-07, 06:00 PM

It depends on how you look at prospecting.

If you are going from a SABR perspective then we could be just as well versed as the experts.

If we are going by scouting then we are unlikely to be in the same position.

Then again we have seen situations when the scouts have been just as wrong as us.

Alan Horne's velocity comes to mind.

We know from first hand(74nole) reports that he hits 94 95. Kieth Law has maintained that he has a lower velocity based on scoreboard velocity readings. The kicker, Riverside Park has no scorebaoard.

I would not write off our opnion just b/c "they know more".

Besides it would take away all the fun.:)

the kicker, riverside park is not the only park that horne has pitched in

Aviezer

12-22-07, 07:10 PM

the kicker, riverside park is not the only park that horne has pitched in

Good point.

All I was trying to say is that we shouldn't supress our POV's just b/c the others are "experts".

flymick24

12-22-07, 10:34 PM

yup, we should only suppress them when skars comes on this board and calls you an ass

Mark19

12-23-07, 12:10 AM

because of whiny fans?

No, just so we can have the final word on how good our prospects really are.

Jace

12-23-07, 12:27 AM

Every night I cry alone and i couldnt figure out the reason and i think this is it

Skars

12-23-07, 08:09 AM

yup, we should only suppress them when skars comes on this board and calls you an ass

find the place where i told anyone to supress their opinions thanks

unless you mean this joke of a thread where we continue to drive the ridiculous perception that everyone is out to get us

Yankyfan

12-23-07, 08:46 AM

yup, we should only suppress them when skars comes on this board and calls you an ass There is only one place these Quotes will lead F24 \. Some advice is to use you ignore tool when it comes to a certion some one;)

Aviezer

12-23-07, 08:34 PM

yup, we should only suppress them when skars comes on this board and calls you an ass

I got no problem with what he said

flymick24

12-24-07, 02:14 PM

find the place where i told anyone to supress their opinions thanks

unless you mean this joke of a thread where we continue to drive the ridiculous perception that everyone is out to get us

the word "suppress" was used in reference to the previous post by aviezer... you give yourself too much credit, really :)

and didn't you know? everybody IS out to get us... neyer, callis, law, tough guy internet posters, and all the like :P

flymick24

12-24-07, 02:15 PM

I got no problem with what he said

well i do!!!!1111

didn't you know?

http://blog.dreamhost.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/serious.jpg