View Full Version : Poll - Who has the better '08... Moose or Schilling?
First time poller, long time poster...
So the Yankees and Sox both have former elite pitchers in the twilights of their careers trying to anchor the backs of their rotations. Schilling is a former power pitcher that saw a sharp drop in his K/9 last year (6.02, lowest he's had by far in 15 years) and outside of his dreadful '05 season the worst H/9 since he was a rookie. Moose is more of a finesse/control pitcher that had a very good '06 season, followed up by his tailspin towards the end of last year. He had 11.13 H/9 and also had his lowest K/9 in over 10 years, falling dramatically from career norms.
Schilling bounced back with a solid '06 after his career bottomed out in '05. Can Moose do the same this year and give us a very reliable #4 / #5 type performance? Who do you think will have the better year between the two?
BBombers85
12-09-07, 12:54 PM
Its sort of a no contest...... Moose really looks done while Schilling went 3-0 in the playoffs this season and threw 7 shutout innings in the ALDS.
Dr. Gonzo
12-09-07, 12:56 PM
moose has a good year then bad year, we are in tune for a good year. I also really like him as a player, so I admit I am biased.
Prison Mike
12-09-07, 12:56 PM
As much as I hate Schilling and his self-important attitude, he's a much better pitcher than Moose is right now. He's a very serviceable #4 in the AL East, whereas Moose can't even hold a spot in the rotation.
Sad thing is, Moose is getting paid more than Schilling this season.
AcidLake
12-09-07, 01:03 PM
Jacoby Ellsbury's right earlobe
moose has a good year then bad year, we are in tune for a good year. I also really like him as a player, so I admit I am biased.I'm with ya Doc. If he can put up results even similar to his '04 or '05 numbers across 180 or so innings, I think that would be huge for the team and I'll go on record saying that Schilling will not best that type of performance.
umpsrconferring
12-09-07, 02:14 PM
fwiw, the Bill James projections for 2008 are around 3.52 for Schilling and 3.74 for Mussina. Turns out the history of similar pitchers to Mussina after a single horrendous year (ERA>5.00) is that they usually bounce back with a good year.
I'm a Sox fan, so I won't vote. I think both teams will be glad they have their guy back.
nhyankeefan
12-09-07, 02:25 PM
As much as I hate Schilling and his self-important attitude, he's a much better pitcher than Moose is right now. He's a very serviceable #4 in the AL East, whereas Moose can't even hold a spot in the rotation.
Sad thing is, Moose is getting paid more than Schilling this season.
If Schilling can actually stay in shape for a change and pitches 150+ innings he'll make more than Moose. But I agree that he'll have a better year, he pitched really well down the stretch and in the playoffs, the key for 08 will be to see if he can do it without the extended rest.
Donnie's Moustache
12-09-07, 02:43 PM
Schilling, because he gets to be Curt Schilling.
Schilling is the better pitcher. Always has been, always will be. That said, obviously I like Mussina a lot more.
In Mo I Trust
12-09-07, 02:47 PM
fwiw, the Bill James projections for 2008 are around 3.52 for Schilling and 3.74 for Mussina. Turns out the history of similar pitchers to Mussina after a single horrendous year (ERA>5.00) is that they usually bounce back with a good year.
I'm a Sox fan, so I won't vote. I think both teams will be glad they have their guy back.
James actually has nothing to do with the pitching projections in the Bill James handbook, he doesn't believe that you can project how pitchers will perform.
Dexileno51
12-09-07, 02:49 PM
Jacoby Mantlellsbury
ColombiaYanksFan
12-09-07, 02:55 PM
What?
b_joseph
12-09-07, 02:57 PM
Schilling was at least, somewhat reliable. Moose? well, we were all just praying for 5+ innings.
Here's a thought, Tubby gets in shape because he wants the $$$, and it throws his mechanics totally out of whack because he hasn't been in great shape in like a decade. Moose bounces back to 06 form.
Schilling was at least, somewhat reliable. Moose? well, we were all just praying for 5+ innings.Did Schilling's 2005 not happen?
Schilling is the better pitcher. Always has been, always will be. That said, obviously I like Mussina a lot more.I don't see this nearly as cut and dry as you do. Look at their career stats. WHIP is basically flat. ERA for Moose is reasonably close. Even the K/9 isn't as drastically different as you'd think. And keep in mind Moose has pitched in the AL East his entire career.
Seems to me many of us fall in love with our prospects, but don't realize how good some of our veteran players are. Shame :(
Donnie's Moustache
12-09-07, 04:04 PM
:uhh:
Schilling was at least, somewhat reliable. Moose? well, we were all just praying for 5+ innings.
My Father while in Ireland, requested during mass to have during the intentions, "May Mike Mussina actually make it through six today." "Lord, hear our prayer." The parishioners were very :uhh: :-shrug-: :looking: :-ponder-: :thatsodd: :wtf: :confused:
NelsonMuntz
12-09-07, 04:09 PM
Its sort of a no contest...... Moose really looks done while Schilling went 3-0 in the playoffs this season and threw 7 shutout innings in the ALDS.
QFT, unfortunately :(
schilling will have the better year.
cajunyankee
12-09-07, 05:23 PM
It all depends on how John McCain fares;
Schilling has add-on incentives of $150,000 per state won in the primaries, plus a potential post as US Ambassador to Dorkistan if the Senator wins it all.
I don't see this nearly as cut and dry as you do. Look at their career stats. WHIP is basically flat. ERA for Moose is reasonably close. Even the K/9 isn't as drastically different as you'd think. And keep in mind Moose has pitched in the AL East his entire career.
Seems to me many of us fall in love with our prospects, but don't realize how good some of our veteran players are. Shame :(
Mussina used to be good. He is not anymore. You can't get by with an 88 mph fastball in the big leagues (unless you're Paul Byrd in the postseason, heh).
Mussina used to be good. He is not anymore. You can't get by with an 88 mph fastball in the big leagues (unless you're Paul Byrd in the postseason, heh).He's a year removed from a very good season. He definitely looked rough at the end of last year. But many pitchers have off years towards the end of their careers. Again, Schilling's '05 was even worse than Moose's '07. I expect a solid year and that Moose will be one of the better back-end of the rotation guys in the AL.
He's a year removed from a very good season. He definitely looked rough at the end of last year. But many pitchers have off years towards the end of their careers. Again, Schilling's '05 was even worse than Moose's '07. I expect a solid year and that Moose will be one of the better back-end of the rotation guys in the AL.
But Schilling in 05 wasn't getting pounded because his stuff was bad.. He was still throwing 92-94, and mixing it up with a great splitter. He simply was leaving pitches over the plate and getting hammered for it. That kind of problem can be fixed, Mussina's can't.
BombersBlvd
12-09-07, 06:31 PM
Mussina vs. Schilling. Is this a joke?
Schilling no doubt. As much as Schilling has lost on his fastball he is still a strike throwing machine. Cant say the same for Mussina plus even though Schilling has lost some on his fastball its still a respectable 89-91, Mussina is 87 at best this year I predict.
Godspeed
12-09-07, 07:12 PM
I dont know what was up with Mussina last year. He just had no control anywhere.
He came back strong after the break. Hopefully, he's good for 150 innings.
Power pitchers have more at risk when it comes to age.
Rocketman
12-09-07, 07:26 PM
Mussina's done. Schilling's the much better deal.
roblyo33
12-09-07, 07:28 PM
Call me an optimist, but I think Moose has a solid season in '08. 10 to 12 wins, 160+ innings. He should be a help keeping the "yutes" innings down.
Rocketman
12-09-07, 08:09 PM
First, I don't see why Mussina should even get 160 IP to begin with. With the exception of Andy Pettitte, the likely Yankee rotation will include a 28-year-old Chien-Ming Wang, a 23-year-old, and two 22-year-olds. None of them are particularly likely to get hurt, either.
Where does Mussina fit into this rotation? In my opinion, he shouldn't - Mussina should be relegated to a long reliever role. If that happens, there's no way he's going to rack up 10+ wins.
BxBomber44
12-09-07, 08:28 PM
curt will.
Mussina vs. Schilling. Is this a joke?No, but here's one...
Two boys are playing hockey on a pond in Central Park when one is attacked by a rabid Rottweiler. Thinking quickly, the other boy takes his stick, wedges it down the dog's collar and twists, breaking the dog's neck. A reporter who was strolling by sees the incident, and rushes over to interview the boy. "Young Rangers Fan Saves Friend from Vicious Animal," he starts writing in his notebook. "But I'm not a Rangers fan," the little hero replied. "Sorry, since we are in New York, I just assumed you were," said the reporter. "Yankees Fan Rescues Friend From Horrific Attack" he continued writing in his notebook. "I'm not a Yankees fan either," the boy said. "I assumed everyone in New York was either for the Rangers or Yankees. What team do you root for?" the reporter asked. "I'm a Red Sox fan," the child replied. The reporter starts a new sheet in his notebook and writes, "Little Bastard from Boston kills Beloved Family Pet."
I don't understand why the comp is so far reaching to some. Pitchers are bound to have bad years, dead arm periods, etc. There are plenty of examples of pitchers bouncing back, including Schilling - who got absolutely pounded in '05 before a strong '06. Moose knows how to pitch, and I think we are being overly cynical of the chances that Moose will too. Since there seem to be few expecting much of anything, here's to hoping he is a pleasant surprise next year.
I don't understand why the comp is so far reaching to some. Pitchers are bound to have bad years, dead arm periods, etc. There are plenty of examples of pitchers bouncing back, including Schilling - who got absolutely pounded in '05 before a strong '06. Moose knows how to pitch, and I think we are being overly cynical of the chances that Moose will too. Since there seem to be few expecting much of anything, here's to hoping he is a pleasant surprise next year.
Again, Schilling has had better stuff the passed few years.
Nature's Minister
12-09-07, 10:17 PM
Mussina is cooked. He could potentially luck himself into a good season, but I wouldn't count on it.
umpsrconferring
12-09-07, 10:31 PM
James actually has nothing to do with the pitching projections in the Bill James handbook, he doesn't believe that you can project how pitchers will perform.
I know. But there is some ability to predict. Not as much as some believe.
But the point still holds for Mussina; he's unlikely to be as bad as he was the second half.
Hitman23
12-10-07, 07:58 AM
Moose is done. Schilling seems to be superhuman. I gotta go with douchebag.
The Q Bomb
12-10-07, 08:55 AM
Schilling has three rings -period, end of sentence.
Well, actually, I'll recant that because I always say, World Championnships are actually a poor way to quantify talent, heart, etc., because, depending on the surrounding cast and circumstances, some great athletes (i.e., Ted Williams) may never get the opportunity to win a World Series. Mussina did have the opportunity, however, and did not come up big, although he was not terrible as some in this forum like to think.
Mussina was terrific for us in his first 3 or 4 years, however, has been disappointing the last 2 as has Schilling been disappointing for The Red Sox. The difference is that Schilling has come up very big for them both during the season and in the postseason right up through last year's World Series - Mussina has not equaled him in this respect. It makes me sick to cast my vote for Schilling but that's what I have to do. Ugh!
JOBA RULES
12-10-07, 08:58 AM
Sad to say...Moose looks to be done...Schill is still a big game pitcher and can get it done in big spots...as for Moose I wouldn't trust him in a big spot
roblyo33
12-10-07, 12:18 PM
[quote=Rocketman]First, I don't see why Mussina should even get 160 IP to begin with. With the exception of Andy Pettitte, the likely Yankee rotation will include a 28-year-old Chien-Ming Wang, a 23-year-old, and two 22-year-olds. None of them are particularly likely to get hurt, either.
This is where my optimism figures in. I think he starts the season as the fifth starter and pitches well enough to stay in the rotation for a while. Then Joe G starts working the kids in more and gives Moose some rest for the stretch run and October. And, yes, I do think he will also see work out of the pen in the middle of the season and, possibly, through the end of the season if the kids all pan out as expected.
Schilling has three rings -period, end of sentence.
Well, actually, I'll recant that because I always say, World Championnships are actually a poor way to quantify talent, heart, etc., because, depending on the surrounding cast and circumstances, some great athletes (i.e., Ted Williams) may never get the opportunity to win a World Series. Mussina did have the opportunity, however, and did not come up big, although he was not terrible as some in this forum like to think.
Mussina was terrific for us in his first 3 or 4 years, however, has been disappointing the last 2 as has Schilling been disappointing for The Red Sox. The difference is that Schilling has come up very big for them both during the season and in the postseason right up through last year's World Series - Mussina has not equaled him in this respect. It makes me sick to cast my vote for Schilling but that's what I have to do. Ugh!Q - I normally enjoy your posts but this one I can't agree with. Schilling having 3 rings has nothing to do with how he or Moose will perform in '08.
Also, how on earth has Moose been disappointing the last 2 years? 2006 was actually a very good year... 15-7, 3.51 ERA, ~200 IP, 1.11 WHIP and 7.84 K/9.
Incidentally, 2006 he outperformed Schilling... also 15-7, 3.97 ERA, ~200 IP, 1.22 WHIP and 8.07 K/9. And we won't even talk about 2005. :D
Moose had a horrible '07 and a really horrible second 1/2 of '07, but compared to Schilling's '05 and the hole he had to dig out of looked much deeper. I'm not saying he's going to pitch like '05, but eating ~200 innings and performing at a mid-point between his '06 and '07 seasons would be respectable for a #5 guy to be sure. C'mon, Moose - silence the doubters!
:moose:
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BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>3</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>3</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>21</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>12.79</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1.42</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1.42</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>9.95</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1.58</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='yellow" style="HEIGHT: 15pt; mso-height-source: userset" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='eeeeee" height=20><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=20>Boston</TD><TD class=xl28 title="American League" style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">AL</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>38</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Bos</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">MLB</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>8</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>8</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>5.69</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>93.1</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>121</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>59</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>59</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>12</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>22</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>87</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>11.67</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1.16</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>2.12</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>8.39</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1.53</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 572pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=758 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 44pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2121" width=58><COL style="WIDTH: 60pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2925" width=80><COL style="WIDTH: 17pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 841" width=23><COL style="WIDTH: 23pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1097" span=2 width=30><COL style="WIDTH: 27pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1316" width=36><COL style="WIDTH: 16pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 768" span=2 width=21><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1280" width=35><COL style="WIDTH: 21pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1024" span=2 width=28><COL style="WIDTH: 16pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 768" width=21><COL style="WIDTH: 19pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 914" span=3 width=25><COL style="WIDTH: 20pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 950" width=26><COL style="WIDTH: 22pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1060" span=2 width=29><COL style="WIDTH: 32pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1536" width=42><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1280" span=3 width=35><COL style="WIDTH: 31pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1499" width=41><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=20><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 44pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff99" width=58 height=20>Mussina</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 60pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=80>Team</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 17pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=23>Lg</TD><TD class=xl23 title="Age is calculated as of June 30 of a season" style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 23pt; CURSOR: help; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=30>Age</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 23pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=30>Org</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 27pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=36>Level</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 16pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=21>W</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 16pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=21>L</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=35>ERA</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 21pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=28>IP</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 21pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=28>H</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 16pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=21>R</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 19pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=25>ER</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 19pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=25>HR</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 19pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=25>BB</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 20pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=26>SO</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 22pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=29>WP</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 22pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=29 x:str="BK ">BK </TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=42>H9</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=35>HR9</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=35>BB9</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=35>K9</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: silver" width=41>WHIP</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='yellow" style="HEIGHT: 15pt; mso-height-source: userset" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='eeeeee" height=20><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=20 x:num>2007</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">NY Yankees</TD><TD class=xl22 title="American League" style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">AL</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>38</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Nyy</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">MLB</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>11</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>10</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>5.15</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>152</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>188</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>90</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>87</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>35</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>91</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>11.13</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>0.83</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>2.07</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>5.39</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1.47</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
surge511
12-10-07, 02:04 PM
Schilling will. He has shown to have more left in the tank, and he will get more chances. His fastball also can at least break a pane of glass, if that counts for anything.
PuffNettles9
12-10-07, 06:38 PM
Always wanted to use this emoticon...now i have a reason to just b/c!:moose:
Huktonfonix
12-10-07, 06:42 PM
Schilling is the better pitcher. Always has been, always will be. That said, obviously I like Mussina a lot more.
That's not even close to true.
I hope its Moose but I voted Schilling.
PinstripePride
12-10-07, 06:44 PM
Option 3 made me laugh out loud, nice work. :lol:
In all seriousness, I think Moose will do better than last year, but Schill will be slightly stronger.
jacoby's earlobe:
17-2, 1.99 ERA, .33 WHIP
That's not even close to true.
Schilling has had better stuff, a better postseason record, a a lower career ERA, and a higher career K/9.
cyhughes22
12-10-07, 10:04 PM
It all depends on how John McCain fares;
Schilling has add-on incentives of $150,000 per state won in the primaries, plus a potential post as US Ambassador to Dorkistan if the Senator wins it all.
Joe Torre will win a WS ring as a player before John McCain wins anything.;)
Oh and I think Moose will bounce back and have a slightly better year than The Douche.
kobayashimaru
12-11-07, 04:30 PM
Schilling has had better stuff, a better postseason record, a a lower career ERA, and a higher career K/9.
Stuff is debatable issue as always
Here are some other stats
Career ERA +
Schilling 127
Mussina 122
Whip
Schilling 1.13
Mussina 1.19
IP
Schilling 3261
Mussina 3362
Mussina did it all in AL east while Schilling pitched majority of his career in NL. I'm really not sure Schilling is the "better" pitcher. They are pretty close. I honestly think Mussina is better.
hankandhal
12-11-07, 04:36 PM
Wow-
Moose 6-8 wins 5+ ERA spot starter come August
Schilling 12-14 wins, 265lbs 4 ERA 25 starts
DontHateOnNumber2
12-11-07, 04:44 PM
I say Moose only because I'm foolishly and overly optimistic.
PJMPirate
12-11-07, 05:31 PM
Schilling has three rings -period, end of sentence.
Well, actually, I'll recant that because I always say, World Championnships are actually a poor way to quantify talent, heart, etc., because, depending on the surrounding cast and circumstances, some great athletes (i.e., Ted Williams) may never get the opportunity to win a World Series. Mussina did have the opportunity, however, and did not come up big, although he was not terrible as some in this forum like to think.
Mussina was terrific for us in his first 3 or 4 years, however, has been disappointing the last 2 as has Schilling been disappointing for The Red Sox. The difference is that Schilling has come up very big for them both during the season and in the postseason right up through last year's World Series - Mussina has not equaled him in this respect. It makes me sick to cast my vote for Schilling but that's what I have to do. Ugh!
15-7 with a 3.51 ERA and a 129 ERA+. In 2006. One season ago.
I'll say that a few more times.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
He pitched better for us in 2006 than Andy did in 2007. Would you call Pettitte's 2007 disappointing?
Mussina did it all in AL east while Schilling pitched majority of his career in NL. I'm really not sure Schilling is the "better" pitcher. They are pretty close. I honestly think Mussina is better.
Schilling's playoff record: 10 wins, 2 losses
Mussina's playoff record: 7 wins, 9 losses
jeterismyhomeboy
12-11-07, 07:58 PM
Schilling's playoff record: 10 wins, 2 losses
Mussina's playoff record: 7 wins, 9 losses
To his credit, Moose was the reason behind the Yanks making the W.S. in '03. His appearance in relief of Clemens in Game 7 saved the Yanks. He never got the win there, but if you know baseball, you know W's don't tell the whole story.
Moose has been equal to Schill for most of his career. Schill pitched mostly in the NL; Moose pitched his whole career in the AL East. Schill has been on the teams that have made it far in the postseason, while Moose hasn't. If Moose had a ring or two to his name, would this really be a debate? If the Yanks had won in '01 (ow) and '03 (as they should have), Schilling would have 1 less ring, and he and Moose would both have 2.
Andy pitched wonderfully in Game 2 this year. The Yanks lost the game, and the series. Andy pitched horribly in the '99 W.S., and the team won the series. Being surrounded by superior talent or being given better luck does not a greater pitcher make.
PJMPirate
12-11-07, 08:13 PM
To his credit, Moose was the reason behind the Yanks making the W.S. in '03. His appearance in relief of Clemens in Game 7 saved the Yanks. He never got the win there, but if you know baseball, you know W's don't tell the whole story.
Moose has been equal to Schill for most of his career. Schill pitched mostly in the NL; Moose pitched his whole career in the AL East. Schill has been on the teams that have made it far in the postseason, while Moose hasn't. If Moose had a ring or two to his name, would this really be a debate? If the Yanks had won in '01 (ow) and '03 (as they should have), Schilling would have 1 less ring, and he and Moose would both have 2.
Andy pitched wonderfully in Game 2 this year. The Yanks lost the game, and the series. Andy pitched horribly in the '99 W.S., and the team won the series. Being surrounded by superior talent or being given better luck does not a greater pitcher make.
Well said.
Want some examples of when Moose has come up huge?
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/08/22/i-come-to-praise-mike-mussina-1007/
BBombers85
12-11-07, 08:29 PM
Too bad we can't vote for Carl Pavano. He might actually win something in this poll...
15-7 with a 3.51 ERA and a 129 ERA+. In 2006. One season ago.
I'll say that a few more times.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
15-7. 3.51. 129.
He pitched better for us in 2006 than Andy did in 2007. Would you call Pettitte's 2007 disappointing?
2006 was an oddity. It was the final season before the Fall of Moose. I guarentee Mussina will never put up an ERA lower than 4.50 again.
2006 was an oddity. It was the final season before the Fall of Moose. I guarentee Mussina will never put up an ERA lower than 4.50 again.What do you have against Moose? Ok, I may be looking through rose colored glasses but calling an entire year in a fantastic career filled with good years an "oddity" shows that you can't be impartial when it comes to Moose. He must have kicked your dog AND then put it in a full nelson followed up by a wet willie and finished off with a swirlie.
What do you have against Moose? Ok, I may be looking through rose colored glasses but calling an entire year in a fantastic career filled with good years an "oddity" shows that you can't be impartial when it comes to Moose. He must have kicked your dog AND then put it in a full nelson followed up by a wet willie and finished off with a swirlie.
:lol:
I don't have anything against Moose. In his prime, he was amazing. I'll never forget that awesome Game 5 he pitched in the 2001 World Series, or him outdueling Beckett in the '03 World Series, or him taking a no-hitter into the 7th against Schilling in the painful '04 ALCS. That said, he is done.
There is no way he can get by with his 88 mph fastball in the AL East.
Schilling may be closer to his end than most people think, imo. Look historically at pitchers near or over 40yo who had their H/9 and K/9 decline like Schillings'. They often decline rapidily from that point. Schilling could easily struggle in '08.
Schilling may be closer to his end than most people think, imo. Look historically at pitchers near or over 40yo who had their H/9 and K/9 decline like Schillings'. They often decline rapidily from that point. Schilling could easily struggle in '08.Bump. Well, I guess we have our answer to this question. I was looking forward to Schilling getting his lunch handed to him every 5 days or so. Cest la vie. Hope the Sox let him get the surgery he needs.
NYDCYankee
02-12-08, 08:08 AM
Bump. Well, I guess we have our answer to this question. I was looking forward to Schilling getting his lunch handed to him every 5 days or so. Cest la vie. Hope the Sox let him get the surgery he needs.
I still say Schilling. He will have a better year than Moose by simply not pitching at all.
nnysiny
02-12-08, 09:27 AM
even Ellsbury's earlobe is going to have a better 08 than Schilling. i forgot all about this poll
Yankees13
02-12-08, 09:33 AM
Well Schilling looks like he's been beached, so we have the answer to this one.
hardrain
02-12-08, 09:35 AM
somebody in my fantasy league just offered me Verlander for Mussina.
What's up with that. I checked and Verlander is not hurt or anything.
themgmt
02-12-08, 09:39 AM
not a fan of schilling at all but he will likely have the better year. Although his injury may speak otherwise to the probable outcome.
JavyVazquezIsSick
02-12-08, 09:54 AM
somebody in my fantasy league just offered me Verlander for Mussina.
What's up with that. I checked and Verlander is not hurt or anything.
It was probably Mike Mussina.
hardrain
02-12-08, 09:56 AM
It was probably Mike Mussina.
but Mussina is a bright boy
JeterRodriguezSheff
02-12-08, 10:27 AM
With the Schilling news...Mussina
JavyVazquezIsSick
02-12-08, 10:34 AM
With the Schilling news...Mussina
I actually think it would be Schilling. If Mussina repeats his 07' season, I'd prefer the guy who doesn't play at all.
Godspeed
02-12-08, 10:48 AM
shilling.
Neither will do anything, but shilling costs less.
cyhughes22
02-12-08, 02:28 PM
Wow, this one really took a turn for the worst.
Game4Tino
02-12-08, 02:41 PM
LOL @ "first time poller"!!
Sorry, that was just funny to me.
DiMaggio5CF
02-12-08, 02:49 PM
Well if it's true that Schilling will miss all of 2008, then his season will almost certainly be better than Mussina's.
Game4Tino
02-12-08, 02:52 PM
Well if it's true that Schilling will miss all of 2008, then his season will almost certainly be better than Mussina's.
Dunno about that. It calls to mind the old Casey Stengel quote, "If you're going to hit into a DP, have the good sense to strike out!"
montrealer
02-12-08, 02:55 PM
Well if it's true that Schilling will miss all of 2008, then his season will almost certainly be better than Mussina's.
I was going to post the same thing........sooooo sad....
TEPLimey
02-13-08, 10:10 AM
over/under for Mike Mussina. Any takers on the over?
ERA: 4.90
WHIP: 1.37
W/L ratio: 5:4
freebubba
02-13-08, 12:19 PM
Wow, tough room - not much love for mike in here. Anybody else think he looks like Eddie Munster?
27IsNext
02-13-08, 12:27 PM
over/under for Mike Mussina. Any takers on the over?
ERA: 4.90
WHIP: 1.37
W/L ratio: 5:4
Over. 5.10 ERA.
nnysiny
02-13-08, 12:31 PM
over/under for Mike Mussina. Any takers on the over?
ERA: 4.90
WHIP: 1.37
W/L ratio: 5:4
150 IP, 4.75 ERA, 1.40 WHIP
TEPLimey
02-13-08, 12:59 PM
150 IP, 4.75 ERA, 1.40 WHIP
Sounds adequate for a #5 starter to me...
hellonewman
02-13-08, 02:55 PM
I am going to go the contrarian route here and say Moose has a pretty good April-May-June before his elbow explodes or something. Then hopefully he tags out to Joba and away we go.
Based on this scenario, I give Moose a slight edge over the earlobe and a big edge over spaghetti-arm Curt.
over/under for Mike Mussina. Any takers on the over?
ERA: 4.90
WHIP: 1.37
W/L ratio: 5:4I would take the under, although not by too much.
RIYankee23
02-13-08, 08:27 PM
Mussina is TERRIBLE.
DisabledMess
02-13-08, 08:44 PM
Moose is not good imo but he does pitch well against the Red Sox. I didn't look it up but I remember him always pitching well against them but I could be wrong.
Moose is not good imo but he does pitch well against the Red Sox. I didn't look it up but I remember him always pitching well against them but I could be wrong.No, not really... he pitched well against them until '05 but the last 3 years he's actuallly been hit pretty hard by the Sox. As have most pitchers for that matter. He's had some dominating appearances against them over his career (near perfect game) but of late he's struggled.
But to the poster who claims Mussina is terrible, the only thing we know is that he WAS terrible... last year. The year prior he had an ERA+ of 129. That's what is intriguing about the Schilling comp. Schilling WAS terrible in '05, with an ERA+ of 80, but I'm sure the Sox were glad to have his 120 and 122 in '06 and '07.
JavyVazquezIsSick
02-14-08, 08:14 AM
over/under for Mike Mussina. Any takers on the over?
ERA: 4.90
WHIP: 1.37
W/L ratio: 5:4
Over.
Rastven
02-14-08, 08:27 AM
I'll take under
I suspect we will see a little more velocity on the FB and the nature of the Yanks starting pitching setup means he might see a little more rest during the peak of summer which should help him out.
metalboy15
02-14-08, 09:52 AM
Not sure where to put this, but...
Mike Mussina lost some weight. Brian Bruney lost a lot of weight and Kyle Farnsworth looks far less bulky. Farnsworth also has a full head of hair for the first time since he’s been a Yankee.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/
nnysiny
02-14-08, 09:58 AM
Not sure where to put this, but...
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/
holy crap. so the following lost weight:
Mussina
Bruney
Farns
Joba
Cano
Jeter
and possibly Melky, Damon and Abreu since they were out of shape last year. i guess Girardi is already having a big influence on the team. i wonder if Moose lost weight so he can accept Joba's jogging challenge ;)
Damon hasn't lost weight, unless he's done it in the last week or so.
Did Moose actually need to lose weight? He looked almost frail at times last year.
JavyVazquezIsSick
02-14-08, 10:01 AM
Damon hasn't lost weight, unless he's done it in the last week or so.
Did Moose actually need to lose weight? He looked almost frail at times last year.
Yeah, Mussina needs to add mass if anything, not lose more weight.
"If I don't deserve to go out there, then I shouldn't go out there," Mussina said. "I'm not going to sit here and say that I've earned the right to be a starter because I've pitched for 17 years. What I've done in the past has nothing to do with now."
“I think they believe in these kids. They believe they’ve got a good group. You build a successful franchise and a successful team with young players who can perform. If you have young pitchers who can perform, you’re in a real good place. With Joba, Hughes and Kennedy, they’ve got three guys they think they can build around."
“When Jeter’s not around anymore, when Andy’s not around, I’m not around, Mariano’s not around, Posada’s not around, these are the guys that are going to be playing for the Yankees and doing the same things that this group has been able to do for the past 12, 13 years.”
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2008214&content_id=2373180&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
bmxstreetrider86
02-14-08, 05:47 PM
i prefer mussina to schilling right now.
i think he has a better curve and a far superior right shoulder
With Moose throwing 5 perfect innings today and coming off a solid start in his prior appearance, and Schilling hitting the 60 day DL, I thought a bump was appropriate.
Jacoby's earlobe is impressive so far this ST, so this race ain't over yet.
I don't think Schilling will pitch again. Ever.
sweet_lou_14
03-13-08, 10:08 PM
I don't think Schilling will pitch again. Ever.
That's probably good news for Boston.
Unfortunately, his career-ending injury was not in his vocal chords.
Cautious optimism best describes my outlook for Moose. He's been a favorite in the rotation since he joined the team. The two strong consecutive outings have been a huge boon for his outlook, but I'm unsure of how he'll take getting knocked around when it happens. The guy has been in the league a decade and a half. He's experienced, but his age may start working against him now more than he's familiar with.
If Moose can stay consistent througought the year he and the kids can feed off each other and build on one anothers outings. I can't think of a better way for him to bow out.
Moose will go 13-8.
groovitude
03-14-08, 02:04 AM
The velocity comparison between Moose and Schilling had me shaking my head. You can't get by on an 88-mph fastball against AL East teams? Paul Byrd debunked that one last year when he went 2-0 in the playoffs against two AL East powerhouses. Furthermore, if velocity is such an issue, tell me who you'd rather see coming out of our bullpen -- Mariano sitting at 94 or Farnsworth sitting in the high 90s?
I think Mussina has a bounce-back year and is a perfectly good #5 in '08.
I don't think Schilling will pitch again. Ever.
I think he will, but not until sometime after the trading deadline. He might be unable to compete though, if he is still hurt when he goes back out there.
I wonder if he should have just had the surgery, and called it a career, and get on with his life.
PeteRFNY
03-14-08, 12:29 PM
I don't think Schilling will pitch again. Ever.
The Bloody Sock however promises to rehab and get back as fast as possible.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r54/PeteRFNY/the_formula.jpg
I know it's only 2 starts in, but loving the mini-Moose-renaissance. And I love that he is off to a better start than Mr. Schilling and Ellsbury's earlobe. So far the cautious optimism has been well placed. We'll see if it holds.
Go MOOSE!
StatenIslandYankee
04-08-08, 11:42 AM
Jacoby Ellsbury's Left Earlobe BY FAR
DaSh 1s
04-08-08, 11:50 AM
:moose:
I don't mean to continually bump this thread every month or so... ok, ok... yes I do. Keep up the great work Moose.
CallOfTheCrow
05-14-08, 11:53 PM
I'd like to take back my vote.
RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
05-14-08, 11:54 PM
Proud to be in the winning <sup>1</sup>/<sub>3</sub> of this poll.
webassign
05-14-08, 11:55 PM
good thing i saved my vote till now
jlw1980
05-15-08, 12:05 AM
Proud to be in the winning <sup>1</sup>/<sub>3</sub> of this poll.Ditto :D
Toaderly
05-15-08, 05:10 AM
Mussina's done. Schilling's the much better deal.
How's this thought holding up?
rodney27nyg
05-15-08, 06:02 AM
Who has the better '08... Moose or Schilling?
Well, Moose is pitching pretty well...but Schilling is undefeated with a 0.00 ERA.;)
marshcat
05-15-08, 08:09 AM
2006 was an oddity. It was the final season before the Fall of Moose. I guarentee Mussina will never put up an ERA lower than 4.50 again.
I LOL you.
I know its early but so far Logan looks pretty foolish with his comments.
sweet_lou_14
05-15-08, 09:14 AM
I had forgotten about this poll. So glad it keeps coming back!
Keep in mind that not only was it Moose vs. Schilling, it was then Moose vs. Wakefield in some discussions. Moose is winning both of those contests handily.
I am enjoying bumping this thread with each quality start from Moose. Real nice job today. Comeback player of the year in the making.
You smell what the Moose is cookin? Win #9 (bullpen willing)!
hellonewman
06-04-08, 08:22 PM
It's funny that Schilling is still leading this poll.
Ynkcpt23
06-04-08, 08:29 PM
I am enjoying bumping this thread with each quality start from Moose. Real nice job today. Comeback player of the year in the making.
You smell what the Moose is cookin? Win #9 (bullpen willing)!
Can't be happier for him--hope the BP holds it for him!!
Great job :moose: !!
b_joseph
06-04-08, 09:01 PM
So far, I am glad to have been proven wrong. Moose, on the whole has been very good and that curveball is the stuff of dreams.
Yankee Fan in Boston
06-04-08, 09:11 PM
Moose could quit now and win more games than Schilling this year
MattUNC2003
06-04-08, 09:48 PM
Do I still get credit for Jacoby's left earlobe? I mean, Jacoby is solidly holding down the fort for me at CF in two of my three fantasy teams.
Time for the obligatory bumpage of this threadage.
Nice job today :moose:
Yankeesfan811
07-18-08, 09:25 PM
It's funny going back and reading how everyone thought Moose was done....
I've had my sig for 6 months now......
sweet_lou_14
07-18-08, 09:27 PM
I love this thread.
The Q Bomb
07-18-08, 09:30 PM
I love this thread. What do you love best? That Moose is doing so well or that Schilling is done? Of course, that Moose is doing so well ... but it's close!
spyglass
07-19-08, 01:44 AM
I love this thread.
I hope he wins 20 games this year. That will make this thread even better.
BxBomber44
07-19-08, 01:47 AM
just read the first page... it's hilarious. we all thought moose was done at some point, little did we know.
spyglass
07-19-08, 01:51 AM
just read the first page... it's hilarious. we all thought moose was done at some point, little did we know.
Sometimes, it's good to be wrong. ;)
i thought schilling would have the better year BUT i did expect moose to rebound.
The obligatory periodic bump. And Schilling is still winning this poll. :barf:
:moose:
b_joseph
08-07-08, 10:05 PM
2 months ago I was glad to be proven wrong. I really didnt expect to be still in awe of his performances 2 months down the line.
Ian Kennedy better have been watching every start Moose had this year. There is no excuse for him not taking in everything.
AcidLake
08-07-08, 10:06 PM
Ellsbury's right ear lobe is having THE BEST YEAR
ALL HAIL ELLSBURY! ALL HAIL ELLSBURY
MUST BOW DOWN TO THE POWER OF THE GREAT ELLSBURY
:Acidlake trips and falls down the Ellsburian church building:
AHHHHHHHHHH
MunsonNY15
08-07-08, 10:10 PM
Oh gosh, I forgot all about this thread. I love preseason predictions. :lol:
It just goes to show you, you can't predict baseball, Suzyn. You just can't predict it. Annnnnyone who tells you he can is lying. ;)
Heidi
spyglass
08-07-08, 10:11 PM
It just goes to show you, you can't predict baseball, Suzyn. You just can't predict it. Annnnnyone who tells you he can is lying. ;)
John, is that you? :P :lol:
Yankees47
08-07-08, 11:37 PM
Ha in pitching or blogging?? Schilling is finished
Ha in pitching or blogging?? Schilling is finished
Moose should start his own blog.
sabermet prospectus
08-08-08, 12:25 AM
We should change this thread title to moose or schilling, whos had the better career and it is clearly mussina.
Jersey Yankee
08-08-08, 02:47 AM
just read the first page... it's hilarious. we all thought moose was done at some point, little did we know.
Let's trade him straight up fer Schill, the horse's arse!!! :gulp::O :P
Moose was never that good anywayz.
http://www.wildlifetreasures.com/images/moosehead2.jpg
spyglass
08-08-08, 05:06 AM
Moose should start his own blog.
Now that would be something that would be fun to read.
nevere thought he was done. never. kept saying after his bad starts last year that he'd rebound.
how many people thought schilling would miss the entire season?
hardrain
08-08-08, 10:59 AM
I just voted for Moose ...
Yankee Tripper
08-08-08, 11:22 AM
I voted Schilling. Never been as happy to be so wrong. Moose has been a god send to our pitching staff this year.
Rellay hasn't been fluke either. He's shut down some good teams, it's not like his only good starts are agaianst the Seattles & KCs of the league. His pereperials are all quite good and he's going deeper into games than I imagined possible.
I'm thrilled with his pitching and while at the start of the season I was worried every time he took the mound, I now expect a W or at least keeping us close in every start he makes.
He's had a few disasters this year; but what pitcher doesn't in a season? He's kept them to a minumin and he's follwed nearly every bad start with a good one the next time out.
I tip my cap to him.
The crow is excellent roasted with a bit of paprika by the way.
TEPLimey
08-08-08, 11:22 AM
This thread is so embarrassing. It is nice to see which people stuck up for him in March/April.
Yankee Tripper
08-08-08, 11:25 AM
nevere thought he was done. never. kept saying after his bad starts last year that he'd rebound.
how many people thought schilling would miss the entire season?
Sad thing is I thought even if Schilling didn't pitch, which I thought was a good possiblity, he'd have a better year than Moose by not hurting his team on the mound.
:insertembarassedemoticonhere:
I'm happy that I'm the one who vote Moose. :)
Smartin681
08-08-08, 11:32 AM
First, I don't see why Mussina should even get 160 IP to begin with. With the exception of Andy Pettitte, the likely Yankee rotation will include a 28-year-old Chien-Ming Wang, a 23-year-old, and two 22-year-olds. None of them are particularly likely to get hurt, either.
Where does Mussina fit into this rotation? In my opinion, he shouldn't - Mussina should be relegated to a long reliever role. If that happens, there's no way he's going to rack up 10+ wins.
This is my favorite post of the thread.
You just can't predict baseball, ladies and gentleman.
Ynkcpt23
08-08-08, 12:39 PM
I voted Schilling. Never been as happy to be so wrong. Moose has been a god send to our pitching staff this year.
Rellay hasn't been fluke either. He's shut down some good teams, it's not like his only good starts are agaianst the Seattles & KCs of the league. His pereperials are all quite good and he's going deeper into games than I imagined possible.
I'm thrilled with his pitching and while at the start of the season I was worried every time he took the mound, I now expect a W or at least keeping us close in every start he makes.
He's had a few disasters this year; but what pitcher doesn't in a season? He's kept them to a minumin and he's follwed nearly every bad start with a good one the next time out.
I tip my cap to him.
The crow is excellent roasted with a bit of paprika by the way.
Could you add some garlic salt for my hunk o' crow?? :doh:
Sad thing is I thought even if Schilling didn't pitch, which I thought was a good possiblity, he'd have a better year than Moose by not hurting his team on the mound.
:insertembarassedemoticonhere:
:D
at least you admit it.
YankeePride1967
08-08-08, 12:44 PM
Oh why wasn't this a public poll? I voted for Moose thankfully.
yankeeman61
08-08-08, 12:51 PM
Is Schilling having a season?
Yankee Tripper
08-08-08, 12:55 PM
:D
at least you admit it.
To be 100% honest I really thought he would stuggle a lot this year with an ERA north of 5. His FB was too slow IMO. He was nibbling too much, affraid to "trust his diminished stuff". I thought his walk rate would go up and his K rate would go down and he'd give up too many 3R-HRs.
He's done the exact opposite and depspite not have an eye poping K/9 rate what he does have is a stellar 4.8:1 K:BB ratio. :eek:
Again I really can't say enough about the job he's done this year.
MunsonNY15
08-08-08, 01:02 PM
Now that would be something that would be fun to read.
Oh, man. I'd read that! But it would better if it had streaming video. Watching his facial expressions when he reacts to inane questions is the best part of watching his post game interviews. :lol:
Heidi
Oh, man. I'd read that! But it would better if it had streaming video. Watching his facial expressions when he reacts to inane questions is the best part of watching his post game interviews. :lol:
Heidi
Like when Torre tried to Yank him in the bottom of the 9th with two out and a 8 run lead. It was great to watch his reaction when Kim Jones said, "So Mike you didn't want to come out of the game." It was like he paused for a couple seconds to let the stupidity of the question set in before saying, "I guess."
I vote for Schilling and since Moose is one of my favorite I am so glad to be wrong.
DEADSOX
08-08-08, 02:12 PM
Don't count Schilling out yet, I heard that he is slated to come back next week and pitch every other day for the remainder of the season, possibly back to back in important series. He will finish 20-0 with a 0.01 ERA and 300 IP
Hobbes40
08-08-08, 02:20 PM
I voted for Ellsbury's earlobe...hard to tell who is having a better season between him and Moose though.
MunsonNY15
08-08-08, 05:36 PM
Don't count Schilling out yet, I heard that he is slated to come back next week and pitch every other day for the remainder of the season, possibly back to back in important series. He will finish 20-0 with a 0.01 ERA and 300 IP
:roflmao: :roflmao::roflmao:
38pitches.com lives!!!
Heidi
Oh, man. I'd read that! But it would better if it had streaming video. Watching his facial expressions when he reacts to inane questions is the best part of watching his post game interviews. :lol:
Heidi
his are the only interviews i like to watch rather than just listen to. the way he looks at the monkey asking the question says more than his actual answer.
2006 was an oddity. It was the final season before the Fall of Moose. I guarentee Mussina will never put up an ERA lower than 4.50 again.I like this one.
somebody in my fantasy league just offered me Verlander for Mussina. What's up with that. I checked and Verlander is not hurt or anything.Here's my favorite though. I hope you didn't make that trade hardrain!! Imagine what the poll results would have looked like if it was... "Who has the better '08... Moose or Verlander?"
To be 100% honest I really thought he would stuggle a lot this year with an ERA north of 5. His FB was too slow IMO. He was nibbling too much, affraid to "trust his diminished stuff". I thought his walk rate would go up and his K rate would go down and he'd give up too many 3R-HRs.
He's done the exact opposite and depspite not have an eye poping K/9 rate what he does have is a stellar 4.8:1 K:BB ratio. :eek:
Again I really can't say enough about the job he's done this year.
no one critisize you for making that predicton because he was showing much of anything out there. i purely believe that he was too smart a guy and had too much pride not to make adjustments and come back. i never expected this from him, more of a 4 ERA and 13 wins.
Yankees47
08-08-08, 07:38 PM
Seriously I didnt vote but I knew that Moose would rebound (Didnt think he would be THIS good) and I thought Schilling was finished last season..Schill is not young anymore and seems to always be out of shape..I didnt think his shoulder would go but I did think that he would be on the DL more than half of the season back in December even
Casey37
08-08-08, 08:24 PM
Four days ago, Moose was behind Schill by about 10 votes. Suddenly, he's up by 8. :lol:
MunsonNY15
08-09-08, 12:38 PM
Moose should start his own blog.
This blurb is in Pete Abe's notebook today (http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080809/SPORTS01/808090389/1110/SPORTS02):
Mike Mussina was named the Pepsi Clutch Performer of the Month by Major League Baseball. Mussina has never heard of the award, which is voted on by fans. "Do I get a lifetime supply of Mountain Dew?" he said. "If I do, I want the award."
Comments like these are why Moose needs his own blog. :lol:
Heidi
Bumping this thread - it's worked all year! Moose, let's go get #20 against the Sox! I'm pretty confident that you silenced some of the folks that posted in this thread back in April - big time.
Metroidman
09-26-08, 04:52 AM
I vote Schilling...wait what?
roblyo33
09-26-08, 09:46 AM
I'm happy to say that I was a Moose believer back when this poll was created. Just think how much fun it would be if Moose had his own blog!!! Someone who is intelligent and funny would be very refreshing.
PJMPirate
09-26-08, 10:32 AM
I'd just like to point out that I was staunchly defending Moose back in December :-whistle-
swingsandmisses
09-26-08, 11:57 AM
Well Schilling received 8 million dollars for doing nothing, I'm sure Carl Pavano would agree that Curt had the better year than Moose, who actually had to work for his salary.
Well Schilling received 8 million dollars for doing nothing, I'm sure Carl Pavano would agree that Curt had the better year than Moose, who actually had to work for his salary.
:roflmao:
35Knucklecurve
09-26-08, 12:46 PM
Like when Torre tried to Yank him in the bottom of the 9th with two out and a 8 run lead. It was great to watch his reaction when Kim Jones said, "So Mike you didn't want to come out of the game." It was like he paused for a couple seconds to let the stupidity of the question set in before saying, "I guess."
I vote for Schilling and since Moose is one of my favorite I am so glad to be wrong.
Another of my favorite post-game "duh" questions was asked by, I believe, Waldman two years ago. Mike had to leave the game after a groin pull and Suzyn asked, "How did you injure the groin?" Then there was that pause where you hear crickets chirping before Mike finally said, with that slight smirk, "Uh, I pulled it pitching."
Schilling decided to take his ball and go home when the O's management made it clear that they were going with Mike as their #1 starter back when both of them were with Baltimore. Neither Schilling or the O's has learned a darned thing from since then.
cajunyankee
09-26-08, 01:15 PM
It all depends on how John McCain fares;
Schilling has add-on incentives of $150,000 per state won in the primaries, plus a potential post as US Ambassador to Dorkistan if the Senator wins it all. It's still too early to say.
But a 'Meet & Greet' appearance tour with the Alaskan GILF beats the hell out of huddling on a rainy mound alongside Jose Molina trying to figure out what to throw Ortiz with men on second and third.
Mr.Muhozi
09-26-08, 01:19 PM
can we do a similar thread next year with hughes i.e
"who will have a better 2009 Hughes or Buchholz" and everyone votes for clay so that Hughes has a moose type season next year, lets see if we can let lightning strike twice :D
anyways back to the topic, moose has made a lot yankees fan proud this season and 20 wins will be the icing on the cake, the ring would have been the creme de le creme, but we know how the season went.......
swingsandmisses
09-26-08, 02:55 PM
It's still too early to say.
But a 'Meet & Greet' appearance tour with the Alaskan GILF beats the hell out of huddling on a rainy mound alongside Jose Molina trying to figure out what to throw Ortiz with men on second and third.If Moose met Sarah Palin she might get confused and shoot him. :eek:
Reggie Smith
10-02-08, 07:55 AM
After what I saw last night, I voted for Jacoby's left ear lobe.;)
cyhughes22
10-03-08, 09:37 PM
See I told you guys Schilling would have the better year I mean he won 20 games and was probably the most valuable player on his team this season. If it weren't for Cliff Lee he'd probably win the Cy Young. Wait that doesn't sound right...:D
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