View Full Version : Steinbrenner puts Torre On Notice
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 09:41 AM
"His job is on the line," the Yankees' owner said in a phone interview. "I think we're paying him a lot of money. He's the highest-paid manager in baseball, so I don't think we'd take him back if we don't win this series."
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMDQ5NzEmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
And with regard to Game 2 in Cleveland:
But with his team teetering on the brink of a knockout, the old Steinbrenner came out swinging on Saturday night, putting Torre on immediate notice and ripping into umpire Bruce Froemming, the veteran crew chief from Friday night's Game 2 who declined to stop play despite an infestation of Lake Erie gnats.
"The umpire was full of [expletive]," Steinbrenner said of the retiring Froemming. "He won't umpire our games anymore."
In the wake of that Game 2 defeat, Steinbrenner said the Yankees had complained to baseball commissioner Bud Selig about the decision to play on. "[Selig] just said, 'That's in the umpires' hands,' " Steinbrenner said. "But Jesus Christ, it was terrible. It messed up the whole team, [Derek] Jeter, all of them."
Along the same lines, George Steinbrenner is expected to be at Yankee Stadium tonight, per Peter Abraham:
Extra bases: Torre spoke with George Steinbrenner on Wednesday. The owner is expected to make a rare trip to New York for Game 3 on Sunday.
http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071005/SPORTS01/710050426/1035/SPORTS
Haywood2K6
10-07-07, 09:43 AM
This is going to be huge news all day, the first time Stein has said flat out, if we lose in the ALDS, Torre is fired. He also goes on to say that he is in full control and will decide how much he pays A-Rod, that is big too because you can see Cash trying to hold back giving him the world, that is not going to happen with Stein deciding how much to pay him.
A lot of things could change in the next 48 hours if the players don't win.
This is going to be huge news all day, the first time Stein has said flat out, if we lose in the ALDS, Torre is fired. He also goes on to say that he is in full control and will decide how much he pays A-Rod, that is big too because you can see Cash trying to hold back giving him the world, that is not going to happen with Stein deciding how much to pay him.
A lot of things could change in the next 48 hours if the players don't win.
Cashman's contract says otherwise
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 09:47 AM
A well timed quote from the Boss, you gotta know Joes boys will fight now..
i think this was pretty much understood but interesting that george went public with it. i guess he is watching the same games we are.
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 09:49 AM
A well timed quote from the Boss, you gotta know Joes boys will fight now..
I think it is certaily poor timing for Steinbrenner to come out with down 0-2, but this type of "motivation" has been one of Steinbrenner's characteristics. But you may be right, Yankee Magic. Here's hoping.
This is going to be a conversation for another day. But as we head into this Game 3, the New York Yankees under Joe Torre is a disgraceful 3-12 in their past 15 games over the past 4 postseasons. Unless that changes, they are more than in their right to make changes with a $200 M payroll.
I think Torre is still a good fit for this team. You're not going to find a perfect manager that handles people well and strategizes well.
Yankees13
10-07-07, 09:50 AM
This could backfire, or it could be brilliant. Time will tell.
smossfan83
10-07-07, 09:50 AM
A well timed quote from the Boss, you gotta know Joes boys will fight now..
Yup, I expect a HUGE day from Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Clemens, and Mo.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 09:52 AM
I think it is certaily poor timing for Steinbrenner to come out with down 0-2, but this type of "motivation" has been one of Steinbrenner's characteristics. But you may be right, Yankee Magic. Here's hoping.
This is going to be a conversation for another day. But as we head into this Game 3, the New York Yankees under Joe Torre is a disgraceful 3-12 in their past 15 games over the past 4 postseasons. Unless that changes, they are more than in their right to make changes with a $200 M payroll.
I think Torre is still a good fit for this team. You're not going to find a perfect manager that handles people well and strategizes well.
True, I think we have seen in the last few years just how much Torre leaned on Zimmer for in game strategy..
Haywood2K6
10-07-07, 09:53 AM
I don't think the players needed this to get motivated, they know they need to win, and it will be an embarrassment if they lose again in the first round.
This simply reinforces Stein's take on the matter, and that Torre will be gone. Remember he was basically gone last year, then was talked out of it by Cash.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 09:54 AM
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMDQ5NzEmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
And with regard to Game 2 in Cleveland:
Along the same lines, George Steinbrenner is expected to be at Yankee Stadium tonight, per Peter Abraham:
http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071005/SPORTS01/710050426/1035/SPORTS
The Boss speaks. I wish he hadn't. Let them game unfold as it may.
I guess Howard Rubenstein was busy.
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 09:54 AM
True, I think we have seen in the last few years just how much Torre leaned on Zimmer for in game strategy..
I don't give Zimmer that much credit. Zimmer was on the staff in 2001, 2002, and 2003 as well.
The Boss speaks. I wish he hadn't. Let them game unfold as it may.
I guess Howard Rubenstein was busy.
I loved Steinbrenner's quotes about Game 2. Vintage Boss.
NYIndian2005
10-07-07, 09:56 AM
I think we went through all this last year. It did nothing to motivate the team. They still lost a must win in Detroit.
Yankees1962
10-07-07, 09:56 AM
I don't give Zimmer that much credit. Zimmer was on the staff in 2001, 2002, and 2003 as well.
I loved Steinbrenner's quotes about Game 2. Vintage Boss.
Thank you.
Also, I wished Steinbrenner kept his mouth shut until after it was all over with.
Thank you.
Also, I wished Steinbrenner kept his mouth shut until after it was all over with.
You mean he was on staff when we went to the World Series another 2 times?
:D
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 09:57 AM
The Boss was right, "The umpire was full of [expletive],"
apalradio
10-07-07, 09:58 AM
Yup, I expect a HUGE day from Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Clemens, and Mo.We need big days from a lot of guys. As for Big Stein's statement, he must be reasonably healthy after all, because that was as poorly timed as any comments he's ever made to the media. Vintage Boss. And I thought Cashman was in charge...
frostdude1
10-07-07, 09:58 AM
This could backfire, or it could be brilliant. Time will tell.
thats my thinking aswell. Hopefully it charges the team !!
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 09:59 AM
We need big days from a lot of guys. As for Big Stein's statement, he must be reasonably healthy after all, because that was as poorly timed as any comments he's ever made to the media. Vintage Boss. And I thought Cashman was in charge...
Cashman WAS in charge...a loss today and he might be gone as well
My 'title' hasn't changed since May. It's almost worth seeing us lose to get a new manager. ;)
Yankees1962
10-07-07, 10:00 AM
Cashman WAS in charge...a loss today and he might be gone as well
Then the turn again to the dark side will be complete.
SalingerNY
10-07-07, 10:02 AM
A well timed quote from the Boss, you gotta know Joes boys will fight now..
You might be right, but I'd like to think down 0-2 they don't need an incentive to fight.
CanoForPresident
10-07-07, 10:03 AM
I think we went through all this last year. It did nothing to motivate the team. They still lost a must win in Detroit.
We're not starting Jared Wright this time around and have 2 home games to even this series out. I'm not sensing any panic or doom and gloom with the team this time around (you could tell that they knew they were done prior to game 4 last year.)
All the motivation the team needs is to see that Cleveland is one game away from eliminating them from the playoffs. I don't think the players really give a ................ what Stienbrenner says- They know where they're at and what they need to do.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:04 AM
You might be right, but I'd like to think down 0-2 they don't need an incentive to fight.
Also notice from the article, George has more faith in Arod then lot of people here do..
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 10:05 AM
Ian O'Connor is on WFAN with Mike Francesa now. Discussing the article:
http://www.wfan.com
cyhughes22
10-07-07, 10:05 AM
I love George Steinbrenner and he's damn right. Get your act together or get out. Good to see the Boss has something left. That makes me happier than anything. Interesting comments about A-Rod too, I wonder if it will make a difference in the grand scheme of things. The only concern I have is that if this fire is still here, the knee-jerk reaction to give up a Hughes or Chamberlain for a Santana or Pujols or someone could be there and I think that would be a mistake. Hopefully that won't be the case.
Haywood2K6
10-07-07, 10:08 AM
Also notice from the article, George has more faith in Arod then lot of people here do..
George watched a lot of Yankee games this year.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:09 AM
Ian O'Connor is on WFAN with Mike Francesa now. Discussing the article:
http://www.wfan.com
What's their take on it?
The Q Bomb
10-07-07, 10:09 AM
Guess I was wrong. I thought Steinbrenner would have had a stroke Friday night! Apparently the opposite happened. I certainly don't want to go back to the days where he was running things by the seat of his pants but is is good to see his feisty old self show up. I don't like the ultimatum about Torre. I wouldn't have a problem if he let Torre go but I don't like public ultimatums - they are classless. But then - Steinbrenner is Steinbrenner. Wouldn't want any other owner.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:10 AM
George watched a lot of Yankee games this year.
So did alot here but I think some have forgot..
BillBuckner
10-07-07, 10:10 AM
Steinbrenner needs to shut the f**k up.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 10:11 AM
Jesus, Mary and Joseph Torre...this was NOT the time to apply more pressure. You want to fire him, Boss? Fine. That's your right as owner of the team. But the team sure as hell didn't need this right now. He must have watching Oliver Pratt and remembered who he used to be. Maybe it's by design to ensure Torre is gone this time. This makes me sick. All they should be concentrating on is winning this damn game. Nobody should have to be thinking win the series or else Torre is gone. Dammit, George why why why?
Yankees1962
10-07-07, 10:11 AM
Ian O'Connor is on WFAN with Mike Francesa now. Discussing the article:
http://www.wfan.com
A great interview so far with O'Connor. Sounds like Steinbrenner is still sound mind-wise.
SalingerNY
10-07-07, 10:12 AM
Also notice from the article, George has more faith in Arod then lot of people here do..
I like what he had to say there, minus the part about a lot of the postseason resting on his shoulders.
frostdude1
10-07-07, 10:14 AM
Steinbrenner:"I still have full control of this team"
junkman73
10-07-07, 10:14 AM
So Joe has to go thru a season where over 25% of his starts come from rookies and then hear this a day before an elimination game? How about a vote of confidence George? I liked George better when he kept his mouth shut.
These guys are all professionals. I don't think its a quote like this from the owner that would make any of them say, "Crap--he means business. We'd better win today." They all know what's at stake.
They need to get out to a lead so they can relax. Westbrook is hittable.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 10:15 AM
This is vintage 1980s Steinbrenner. It made him look like a buffoon back then.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:15 AM
I like what he had to say there, minus the part about a lot of the postseason resting on his shoulders.
I agree, to bad we will never know everthing that was said, you know it's been edited for shock value..
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 10:15 AM
What's their take on it?
O'Connor emphasized that Steinbrenner was "lucid," "clear and concise," and answered the same way he would in the past. A "rapid fire" type of question and answer, which is his standard of interview according to O'Connor. Steinbrenner simply picked up the phone when O'Connor called and granted the interview. O'Connor knew Steinbrenner was in the NYC area last night and expects him to be at the game.
O'Connor said that he's had roughly a "dozen" phone interviews with Steinbrenner in the past and would not have published the story if he felt his health wasn't alright. Now, whether or not Steinbrenner has "good and bad" days is unknown, but that Steinbrenner was emphatic about having "full control" of the Yankees.
O'Connor also went on to indicate that he feels this is Steinbrenner's attempt to motivate the players, but remains serious if they fail. The motivation attempt, according to both O'Connor and Francesa, is the trademark Steinbrenner "football mentality." Challenging the players to play for their manager.
Lastly, O'Connor mentioned he thought the Yankees would have won without the bugs because Chamberlain was distracted and compromised - and that the moisture of the bug spray made it worse - but that the Indians handled it better.
O'Connor believes Torre will be gone if they lose this series, although he disagrees with it. Also mentioned Steinbrenner as wanting to re-insert his presence on the control issue of the Yankees.
O'Connor did not believe the timing would have a negative effect.
Great interview by Francesa. Also, O'Connor took a "pass" of the question when Francesa pressed for more news not in the story.
RogerNatural
10-07-07, 10:16 AM
My 'title' hasn't changed since May. It's almost worth seeing us lose to get a new manager. ;) NEVER... I am certainly NOT a Torre supporter, just the opposite, but I couldn't be happier to see the team win the WS right now.
frostdude1
10-07-07, 10:17 AM
What did Ian not want to share ?
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:18 AM
I wonder if the Boss said anything about the Rocket?
jimmyclark
10-07-07, 10:19 AM
Amazing on how so many guys lile Francesa, Russo, O'Connor, etc will automatically tell you Torre should be rehired at $7 million a year to manage a $200 million team that keeps getting eliminated in the first round. These players like Torre so much: Prove it. Win!
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 10:20 AM
What did Ian not want to share ?
He said his article today was "basically the entire story." He may be withholding some other juicy soundbites for his own reporting.
O'Connor made it point to mention that this is a business and while he actually asked Francesa if he could pass on that. Francesa bailed him out by reiterating how competitive it is to have stories.
O'Connor did very well.
I cannot argue with Steinbrenner's logic. They love the manager? Play for him. You're 3-12 in the postseason and are going to get him fired.
Whether you agree or not, this is Classic Steinbrenner timing. If they win the series, he looks like a great motivator. If they don't, they were down 0-2 anyway.
Haywood2K6
10-07-07, 10:22 AM
Steinbrenner needs to shut the f**k up.
No, he doesn't.
The Q Bomb
10-07-07, 10:24 AM
Also - the bug business was a disgrace; the game should have been delayed. (I personally wanted it called. Yanks win 1-0. Period. End of sentence! ;) ) But you have to be careful bringing that up - Cleveland had the same bugs. The fact that their players may not be as "sweet" as our players (and therefore the bugs went after them less) may be a factor - but I don't know that holds up in a court of law or public opinion.
frostdude1
10-07-07, 10:25 AM
He said his article today was "basically the entire story." He may be withholding some other juicy soundbites for his own reporting.
O'Connor made it point to mention that this is a business and while he actually asked Francesa if he could pass on that. Francesa bailed him out by reiterating how competitive it is to have stories.
O'Connor did very well.
I cannot argue with Steinbrenner's logic. They love the manager? Play for him. You're 3-12 in the postseason and are going to get him fired.
Whether you agree or not, this is Classic Steinbrenner timing. If they win the series, he looks like a great motivator. If they don't, they were down 0-2 anyway.
Thanks. I completely agree
Rocketbooster
10-07-07, 10:29 AM
I have no problem with George speaking out - it's not like there wasn't pressure on the Yankees anyway. They SHOULD feel pressure - the whole lineup for the most part has sleepwalked through the first two games; they've been an complete and utter embarrassment. If George's comments put so much pressure on them that they can't handle it, then they don't deserve to win. I don't feel badly for the players- just go out and do your job.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:29 AM
Also - the bug business was a disgrace; the game should have been delayed. (I personally wanted it called. Yanks win 1-0. Period. End of sentence! ;) ) But you have to be careful bringing that up - Cleveland had the same bugs. The fact that their players may not be as "sweet" as our players (and therefore the bugs went after them less) may be a factor - but I don't know that holds up in a court of law or public opinion.
True, but it sure looked like the bugs were "thicker" while Joba was on the mound.
RhodeyYankee2638
10-07-07, 10:34 AM
Maybe with his job on the line, he won't sit there doing nothing while a rookie implodes on the mound with a decent [sarcasm] closer on the bench not warming up
How smart is it to criticize an ump like that when said ump will be working today's game?
cyhughes22
10-07-07, 10:43 AM
How smart is it to criticize an ump like that when said ump will be working today's game?
Froeming is a professional. He probably didn't do right by us in terms of how he handled the bugs but he's a professional. He's not going to punish the Yankees for what George said.
RWGreen
10-07-07, 10:45 AM
Something in my gut tells me that Torre is one of the last threads connecting the team to its years of dominance in the late 90s. The dominance wasn't necessarily built on having the best talent, or a gigantic payroll, but on having something that translated to wins. Call it chemistry, call it swagger, call it "being winners," whatever. My gut also tells me that one of these years, enough of those threads will be broken, and the whole thing will collapse. A lot of people here were sure that it had already collapsed for a large portion of this season. Will Torre's firing be the final chapter in this era of Yankee success? I guess there's a good chance we'll find out...
Steinbrenner needs to shut the f**k up.
If Torre was managing then Steinbrenner wouldn't need to say anything.
Rocketbooster
10-07-07, 10:50 AM
Something in my gut tells me that Torre is one of the last threads connecting the team to its years of dominance in the late 90s. The dominance wasn't necessarily built on having the best talent, or a gigantic payroll, but on having something that translated to wins. Call it chemistry, call it swagger, call it "being winners," whatever. My gut also tells me that one of these years, enough of those threads will be broken, and the whole thing will collapse. A lot of people here were sure that it had already collapsed for a large portion of this season. Will Torre's firing be the final chapter in this era of Yankee success? I guess there's a good chance we'll find out...
When you have Hughes, Joba and Kennedy as part of your staff, with Wang and hopefully Andy, your future looks pretty bright. That's not even mentioning other highly touted prospects still on the farm. It might be the final chapter for Joe, but not for the Yankees.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 10:51 AM
Ok off topic a little but who thinks George knows (or knows who he wants to ) replace Torre if they lose in this round (btw they are not gonna lose!)..
Retire21
10-07-07, 10:52 AM
Wow. Just wow. I went to bed and woke up this morning thinking about nothing but Game 3 and then I read this before this morning's breakfast. I'm kind of torn here on what to think about all of this.
On one hand, I am angry and disappointed like all of you, but mostly just disappointed in how the series has turned out. And I agree with those of you who feel the pressure should be applied- you like your manager so much? Then play for him. 3-12 and three 1st round exits does not warrant a re-hire.
Nevertheless, there's a way of handling this stuff in the proper manner, especially when you're dealing with a man like Joe Torre who has been so good for the Yankees over the course of 12 years. If he's going to be let go, it should be delicately and with some respect. You kick the guy out and issue public ultimatums and you're setting up a very messy divorce here that begins to look like Yogi in the 1980s, not that I think Joe would ever stay away from the Yankees like Yogi did, but still.
I love the fire from George. I do. But you know what? The pressure that he is trying to apply is already there. He's just adding to it. And let's face it, when have the 2004-2007 Yankees ever done well when the pressure has been amped up?
And whoever said he hopes we lose so we can get rid of Joe is just not pulling for the Yankees. That's ridiculous. I hope we win the whole ball of wax so Joe can retire and go out on top rather than the shameful treatment he seems destined to get. I've been down on Joe. We all have. But he deserves better than this. The comments from Mr. Steinbrenner- while I love the fire - are ill-timed and ill-placed.
Ok off topic a little but who thinks George knows (or knows who he wants to ) replace Torre if they lose in this round (btw they are not gonna lose!)..
Either Girardi or Mattingly.
Wow. Just wow. I went to bed and woke up this morning thinking about nothing but Game 3 and then I read this before this morning's breakfast. I'm kind of torn here on what to think about all of this.
On one hand, I am angry and disappointed like all of you, but mostly just disappointed in how the series has turned out. And I agree with those of you who feel the pressure should be applied- you like your manager so much? Then play for him. 3-12 and three 1st round exits does not warrant a re-hire.
Nevertheless, there's a way of handling this stuff in the proper manner, especially when you're dealing with a man like Joe Torre who has been so good for the Yankees over the course of 12 years. If he's going to be let go, it should be delicately and with some respect. You kick the guy out and issue public ultimatums and you're setting up a very messy divorce here that begins to look like Yogi in the 1980s, not that I think Joe would ever stay away from the Yankees like Yogi did, but still.
I love the fire from George. I do. But you know what? The pressure that he is trying to apply is already there. He's just adding to it. And let's face it, when have the 2004-2007 Yankees ever done well when the pressure has been amped up?
And whoever said he hopes we lose so we can get rid of Joe is just not pulling for the Yankees. That's ridiculous. I hope we win the whole ball of wax so Joe can retire and go out on top rather than the shameful treatment he seems destined to get. I've been down on Joe. We all have. But he deserves better than this. The comments from Mr. Steinbrenner- while I love the fire - are ill-timed and ill-placed.
The difference was that Yogi was fired, Torre's contract won't be renewed.
BBombers85
10-07-07, 10:54 AM
This was pretty much a given after last year's mess. Torre needs to make it to the World Series to have a shot at getting a new contract. That being said, a loss tonight (puhleaaaaaaase, we're not losing dont worry) could have a ripple effect:
Torre gone --> A-rod Gone
Posada and Mo said they want to test the market, but I think 99.9% (not a Roger Clemens 99.9%) they'll be back.
I Heart Jeter
10-07-07, 10:55 AM
I would have preffered a more Patten-esque missive
Retire21
10-07-07, 10:56 AM
The difference was that Yogi was fired, Torre's contract won't be renewed.
Yes, but the treatment/handling of a Yankee legend was the same.
Retire21
10-07-07, 11:01 AM
The best thing that could happen tonight for everyone is we score some runs early, Roger settles in, and we end up blowing them out. We need to open up a can tonight to get some of the swagger back.
While a win is obviously what we need, I think we also need a certain type of win that relaxes the players a bit, brings a few smiles, and perhaps settles everyone for a win in Game 4. A tight game could be nerve-wracking, with everything that is on the line.
Yes, but the treatment/handling of a Yankee legend was the same.
No it isn't.
Berra was fired 3 weeks into a season.
Berra agreed to stay in the job for 1985 after receiving assurances that he would not be fired, but the impatient Steinbrenner did fire Berra after the 16th game of the season. Instead of firing him personally, Steinbrenner dispatched Clyde King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_King) to deliver the news for him <SUP class=reference id=_ref-0>[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra#_note-0)</SUP>. This caused a rift between the two men that would not be mended for almost 15 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra
If this was the old Steinbrenner Torre would have been fired a long time ago. Steinbrenner allowed Torre to finish out the season and contract.
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 11:03 AM
No it isn't.
Berra was fired 3 weeks into a season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra
If this was the old Steinbrenner Torre would have been fired a long time ago.
2004 for sure.
Retire21
10-07-07, 11:06 AM
No it isn't.
Berra was fired 3 weeks into a season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra
If this was the old Steinbrenner Torre would have been fired a long time ago. Steinbrenner allowed Torre to finish out the season and contract.
In my opinion, both men were disrespected publicly where that didn't need to happen. We can agree to disagree- I understand the situations were different and I agree the old Steinbrenner would have fired Torre a long time ago, but the bottom line is that they were both Yankee legends and they are/were both treated poorly in what could be the day Joe is shown the door.
Jeter Kid
10-07-07, 11:09 AM
I'm glad he came out and said this, it's time to make a change in management if they cannot get past this first round. Hopefully it will wake some people up.
In my opinion, both men were disrespected publicly where that didn't need to happen. We can agree to disagree- I understand the situations were different and I agree the old Steinbrenner would have fired Torre a long time ago, but the bottom line is that they were both Yankee legends and they are/were both treated poorly in what could be the day Joe is shown the door.
How has Joe been treated poorly? If you read the article, Steinbrenner has said Torre has been good for us, but he is the highest paid manager in the league. And if you are the highest paid manager in the league for the past couple of years you need to start showing some results or else. How is that disrepectful? Disrepectful would be insulting Torre and firing him during the season.
stephsamps
10-07-07, 11:13 AM
This just makes me sad... in so many ways.
teknetic
10-07-07, 11:14 AM
Seeing how they've laid dead he has every right to get pissed. Torre made a huge gaff in not going out and at least talking with the umps when the bugs covered Joba, if not to delay the game, but to give Joba a breather.
TheTinoMobile
10-07-07, 11:18 AM
This is nothing but a show from Steinbrenner and his people. Deep down I feel Joe Torre will retire after this season anyway...and this just puts Steinbrenner in a position to make it look like he forced Joe out and really does still have control of operations, despite his health concerns.
NYYDragoon
10-07-07, 11:23 AM
Personally, I think this is one of the most demoralizing things George could do at the moment. The team needs to focus on winning, not whether or not beloved Torre will have a job in two days. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...now is not the time.
Personally, I think this is one of the most demoralizing things George could do at the moment. The team needs to focus on winning, not whether or not beloved Torre will have a job in two days. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...now is not the time.
I like your avatar. Kain rocks.
nnysiny
10-07-07, 11:26 AM
at least this year would have a silver lining, unlike the past 6 years
26 and counting
10-07-07, 11:28 AM
Yup, I expect a HUGE day from Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Clemens, and Mo.
If all the guys that you mention have huge days, we won't even have to use Mo, because we'll be up about 12-1 in the 9th.:) Save Mo for tomorrow, have him pitch three innings.:D
BroadwayBomber55
10-07-07, 11:31 AM
Either you step up, deliver, and win in order to advance or you go home with your dream shattered.
As for the Boss's ultimatium, aint 2007 the last year in Joe Torre's contract?
NYYDragoon
10-07-07, 11:33 AM
And also, I'm pretty sure Bruce Froemming won't be umping anymore because he's retiring, not because George says so.
I like your avatar. Kain rocks.
Haha. Thanks.
I'm glad he came out and said this, it's time to make a change in management if they cannot get past this first round. Hopefully it will wake some people up.
It's a great thing to say if you want to pack in the rest of '07! So you're down 0-2 and one more loss ends your season, there's no pressure right?
Now Mr Steinbrenner has to open his big trap and put all the guys in the dugout on notice, many of whom adore Torre that if you guys lose no matter what the circumstances, be it bugs, bad ump calls or fan interference Joe gets fired.
What a great motivation tool, NOT! I think Mr Steinbrenner has been watching to much of the Bronx is Burning, this isn't the Martin era anymore....
You know what it's rhetoric like this that makes looks forward to the day he's no longer the owner. I just hope the current core of players and management survives to fight another day.
yankeebot
10-07-07, 11:38 AM
I don't think there is a single player on the team that will be affected by this in even the slightest way.
mrs.roy
10-07-07, 11:42 AM
You are absolutely correct!
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 11:42 AM
In the timeless game of baseball everything is about timing. I have a huge problem with the Boss' timing with this. This is not football (George's background and mentality) where you fire up the team and you go out and get physical which can make a difference. IMO George has never understood this about baseball. I believe this will have a reverse effect where everyone tightens up and tries too hard to make something happen. I understand the emotion of being on the brink of elimination but this will only serve to be a distraction and will take prescedence over the game itself, which is all the Yankees should be concentrating on. George has every right to change managers but good grief if you want the team to pull this out (George) then quit putting yourself in the spotlight by casting a dark cloud over Torre and mostly the team who you supposedly want to win! This serves as no other purpose but to vent your own frustration. Congrats, George I hope you feel better. Let's see how you feel if this team tanks the game tonight. I hope they can overcome you. :mad:
ColombiaYanksFan
10-07-07, 11:45 AM
Really? I thought Torre would get a raise from Steinbrenner if the Yankees lose this series.:-whistle-
OldYankeeFan
10-07-07, 11:45 AM
After the year Joe has had (MOTY imo) George must be putting A LOT of the blame for an 0-2 start on Torre. And I can't blame him. Joe absolutely froze in two critical situations. And he is paid alot of money NOT to do that in close playoff games.
First he did nothing to try and have the game stopped until the bugs subsided when he should have petitioned the umps and then protested the game if they did not comply. As (SI) Tom Verducci said in his atrticle...
" ...Plenty of major league games with far less on the line have been stopped due to bug infestations. I can't believe both the Yankees and Indians didn't argue for a stoppage of play Friday night, but especially New York, when it was obvious that reliever Joba Chamberlain was severely compromised by those conditions. It was no different than playing a game in a deluge."
The second frozen situation came shortly thereafter.when Joe and Guidry had the biggest brain cramp i have seen in a LONG time.
As soon as they saw that Joba was struggling (and I am one who does think it was the bugs that initially got to him) Mo should have been in there. If not after he walked the first batter on 4 pitches, certainly after the first wild pitch. And if not then, then most certainly after the sacrifice bunt putting a man on third (with him already having thrown a wild pitch). And if not then, then positively, absolutely, thank God the line drive was hit right to our draw in 1st baseman for out #2 after Joba missed down the middle with a pitch that was HAMMERED. There is just no possible reason I can come up with for leaving him in there. None. It would have been a common 4 out save for Mo who ALL year was brought in in anything CLOSE to that situation. But in the playoffs, in the most important game of the season Joe Froze and Guidry and Mattingly apparently let him.
Like I said I can't blame george for putting the 0-2 start on Torre and I can understand that he is telling the players to SAVE their manager, but Joe has done too much over the years and during the regular season this year to go out with a Yogi type send off.
NYYDragoon
10-07-07, 11:46 AM
I don't think there is a single player on the team that will be affected by this in even the slightest way.I disagree. Not only are they on the verge of being eliminated from the first round for the third year in a row, but now the manager of a golden area could be booted, too. Now more's on the line than should be necessary. No one's going to just ignore that.
While he's at it, George should also rule on Alex, Jorge, and Mo's futures on the team.
jimmyquickpitch
10-07-07, 11:46 AM
I don't post, just like to follow along, but I have to say something about this.
It's a disgrace. I'm ashamed of our owner for doing this. There isn't a single positive that can come out of this.
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 11:52 AM
After the year Joe has had (MOTY imo) George must be putting A LOT of the blame for an 0-2 start on Torre.
In situations like these, it's about more than 2 games.
Torre is 3-12 in his past 15 playoff games. Think about that with an owner who has expectations of winning World Championships. In this 15 game stretch Steinbrenner as witnessed the worst collapse in posteason history in 2004, followed by consecutive 1st round eliminations in 2005 and 2006.
I don't like that it has become a story today. But I cannot fault Steinbrenner's logic whatsoever. Right or wrong, he feels that a $200M payroll and the resources of NYY should put us into the postseason every year. And as the owner and signer of the checks, that's his right.
cyhughes22
10-07-07, 11:59 AM
This was pretty much a given after last year's mess. Torre needs to make it to the World Series to have a shot at getting a new contract. That being said, a loss tonight (puhleaaaaaaase, we're not losing dont worry) could have a ripple effect:
Torre gone --> A-rod Gone
Posada and Mo said they want to test the market, but I think 99.9% (not a Roger Clemens 99.9%) they'll be back.
Umm no. A-Rod and Torres futures are probably the 2 most independant variables of one another in this whole mess. A-Rod's decision will in no way be affected by Joe Torre leaving, no way.
Yankees Pride
10-07-07, 12:00 PM
As a huge Torre supporter, I still have to say that if Joe can't get through this first round I don't think Steinbrenner has a choice. You have to put new blood in there.
CalYankeeFan
10-07-07, 12:01 PM
I would have preffered a more Patten-esque missive
When the going gets tough the tough get going.:P
JfromJersey
10-07-07, 12:03 PM
In situations like these, it's about more than 2 games.
Torre is 3-12 in his past 15 playoff games. Think about that with an owner who has expectations of winning World Championships. In this 15 game stretch Steinbrenner as witnessed the worst collapse in posteason history in 2004, followed by consecutive 1st round eliminations in 2005 and 2006.
I don't like that it has become a story today. But I cannot fault Steinbrenner's logic whatsoever. Right or wrong, he feels that a $200M payroll and the resources of NYY should put us into the postseason every year. And as the owner and signer of the checks, that's his right.
The Yankees have made the post season every year Torre has managed. Isn't it tempting fate to change managers now? It's true the post season record has been bad lately, but don't you have to get there first? We've had 1 manager for 12 years now. Before that, a Yankee manager's life expectancy was maybe 2 years. If the new manager fails to get the team into the playoffs next year, I could see us going through the same game of managerial musical chairs for another decade.
primetime714
10-07-07, 12:04 PM
I really like Steinbrenner coming out and laying down the law. The past couple years he has been too quiet. During the championship years many of thought Steinnbrenner's bickering was a distraction but the team always seemed to respond to his ultimatums. Torre is a players manager and you know a lot of guys are going to come out and really step up their play to help him keep his job. If not well then its time for Torre to go.
Yankees Pride
10-07-07, 12:09 PM
The Yankees have made the post season every year Torre has managed. Isn't it tempting fate to change managers now? It's true the post season record has been bad lately, but don't you have to get there first? We've had 1 manager for 12 years now. Before that, a Yankee manager's life expectancy was maybe 2 years. If the new manager fails to get the team into the playoffs next year, I could see us going through the same game of managerial musical chairs for another decade.
I think his team hasn't performed the way they should have and he's been dealt some bad luck (along with a few questionable moves) but it's part of the politics of the game. I think you need to go with a new manager if they lose. (WHICH THEY WON"T!!)
I really like Steinbrenner coming out and laying down the law. The past couple years he has been too quiet. During the championship years many of thought Steinnbrenner's bickering was a distraction but the team always seemed to respond to his ultimatums. Torre is a players manager and you know a lot of guys are going to come out and really step up their play to help him keep his job. If not well then its time for Torre to go.
I really like it too. It states what is obvious but also gives a jolt of reality and urgency to the situation. and of course it's 100% his right to say what's on his mind. he's pretty much kept his mouth shut this year since "cashman was on a big hook", and the team turned it around then -- so let's hope they can do so again for themselves and for joe.
OldYankeeFan
10-07-07, 12:10 PM
In situations like these, it's about more than 2 games.
Torre is 3-12 in his past 15 playoff games. Think about that with an owner who has expectations of winning World Championships. In this 15 game stretch Steinbrenner as witnessed the worst collapse in posteason history in 2004, followed by consecutive 1st round eliminations in 2005 and 2006.
I don't like that it has become a story today. But I cannot fault Steinbrenner's logic whatsoever. Right or wrong, he feels that a $200M payroll and the resources of NYY should put us into the postseason every year. And as the owner and signer of the checks, that's his right.
I whole heartedly agree with this and think it was the last game that was the final straw. I don't blame George for anything he said but at this same time if Joe is gone I would just like to see him go with some dignity.
I am kind of attached to Torre since he's been leading the Yankees during the recent golden years and it's tought to see anyone manage the team...
BUT then I think about the insane number of times where I've yelled at the tv/radio "WHAT THE ................ IS TORRE DOING?!?" it makes me think that maybe he isn't the best manager for the job.
After 2004 collapse, and first round exits 05 and 06...
this is the same team that beat the indians 6 straight times this season...so it's not like Torre doesn't have the tools to do it. The guy who outpitched Carmona in the regular season was regulated to mop up duty after the game was blown by a pitcher in his 3rd or so ML appearance.
PoughVirginiaYankee
10-07-07, 12:13 PM
Well, at least he didn't mince words there. He really laid it out there - no ambiguity about it, unlike what you would expect him to say judging by the last few years. If we lose, Joe's gone.
Casey37
10-07-07, 12:14 PM
"I think we'll re-sign him," Steinbrenner said of Rodriguez. "I think he's going to have a good run the rest of the [postseason]. I think he realizes New York is the place to be, the place to play. A lot of this [postseason] is laying on his shoulders, you know, but I think he's up to it."
This part of the article I found most encouraging. I hope George does everything within his power to make this happen.
Stashed_in_the_South
10-07-07, 12:16 PM
This part of the article I found most encouraging. I hope George does everything within his power to make this happen.
I am absolutely shocked that The Boss had the wherewithal to make these statements; I thought that those days were long gone.
Wow! It's like 1977, 1978 again!
RhodeyYankee2638
10-07-07, 12:17 PM
Wow! It's like 1977, 1978 again!
It would be nice if we could achieve the same results
TheJobaRules
10-07-07, 12:20 PM
Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?
There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.
Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear.
yankeebot
10-07-07, 12:20 PM
I disagree. Not only are they on the verge of being eliminated from the first round for the third year in a row, but now the manager of a golden area could be booted, too. Now more's on the line than should be necessary. No one's going to just ignore that.
While he's at it, George should also rule on Alex, Jorge, and Mo's futures on the team. I think more highly of the players than that. They're smart enough to know Joe's situation without George having to spell it out and they're professional enough to go about their business without the words of a the current version of Mr Stainbrenner affecting their play.
The player contract stuff is just silliness so I won't bother to address that.
yankeebot
10-07-07, 12:21 PM
Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?
There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.
Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear. That's been addressed plenty in multiple threads. Personally, I don't think it's a real factor.
RhodeyYankee2638
10-07-07, 12:21 PM
Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?
There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.
Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear.
Well, Andy Pettitte left once, and Torre was still there, so that really doesn't matter. And I don't really see Mo or Posada in any other jersey, especially if Girardi or Mattingly is the manager
yankeegeek
10-07-07, 12:22 PM
Love what George said. It was perfect. About time we had Gereral George back in charge.
OldYankeeFan
10-07-07, 12:26 PM
I really like Steinbrenner coming out and laying down the law. The past couple years he has been too quiet. During the championship years many of thought Steinnbrenner's bickering was a distraction but the team always seemed to respond to his ultimatums. Torre is a players manager and you know a lot of guys are going to come out and really step up their play to help him keep his job. If not well then its time for Torre to go.
It's funny because when George was in his "prime" he did this all the time and when they won there was alway a debate as too whether is was due to George's motivation. George has once again come to life (and that is good to see) creating a battle cry for the loyal troops.
When we win, the current players (just like the ones in 77-78) will most likely deny it had any effect on them. I'm not so sure but would love to have that debate again.
mrs.roy
10-07-07, 12:27 PM
The Yankees are way, way, way, way, more professional than some are letting them on to be/giving them credit for.
They all know who the Boss is.
They all know what he is capable of saying and doing.
What he says to the "press" does not dictate how they perform on the field.
They do, and the opposing team does.
Everyman on that team will tell you that.
Mr. Torre will tell you it is a non-issue. Play ball.
Evil Empire
10-07-07, 12:28 PM
Mr. Torre will tell you it is a non-issue.
It probably isn't to him anyway. He'll have no problem finding a managerial job should he get fired or not come back.
Fabien Brandy
10-07-07, 12:29 PM
Torre is the one who batted ARod 8th and is father/son with Jeter, so I doubt ARod would be too broken hearted about a new guy taking over.
And I do think it is a significant distinction that Torre would not be 'fired'. To me getting fired means you did a poor job. Getting a new contract means you did a good job. Serving out your contract and not being renewed is somewhere in between, which I think is a fair assessment.
CallOfTheCrow
10-07-07, 12:29 PM
I can deal with that as long as Cashman stays....& if not then someone that has the same long term plans.
bomber999
10-07-07, 12:35 PM
Either Girardi or Mattingly.
Mattingly, IMHO, would be an unmitigated disaster. Not proven at all, and certainly not enough experience to run the New York Yankees. Plus, if the team were not successful under his management, it would make for a very messy situation- a beloved NYY would need to be fired, and this would be ugly and could lead to major rifts. Or Mattingly's legacy would delay his termination to the detriment of the team.
Girardi, if we had to change managers, would be a much better choice.
I, for one, do not wish to see Joe go. I think that people had better be careful what they wish for, because I think that people are banking on the fact that the next manager, whomever he may be, will do a better job than Joe and guarantee us yearly entry into the WS. Joe makes some frustrating decisions, but there is no manager who doesn't. He has gotten us into the playoffs 12 years in a row. He has won 4 WS, 6 pennants total. The players either like or love him (except for Sheffield and Lofton, who are morons). Obviously, he knows how to guide a team to glory. This particular team doesn't seem to be able to handle the spotlight shining brightest and goes into hibernation. A new manager will not necessarily change that, and may make it worse (i.e. miss the playoffs altogether).
metalyank
10-07-07, 12:36 PM
That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.
I can deal with that as long as Cashman stays....& if not then someone that has the same long term plans.
I can't help but think that if Torre is out, then Cashman may be as well. The most logical replacement for Brian would be Damon Oppenheimer. They have already talked about Damon taking over when Brian wasn't sure he wanted to renew, and was pretty close to signing on as Philadelphia's new GM. Damon has certainly done a very admireable job with the draft since he has taken control of it, but I still sincerely hope Cashman doesn't go anywhere.
As far as Torre is concerned, I am pretty much torn. I realize that Torre leaving might very well mean that some part of Mo, Posada, and Andy will consider not returning. At the same time, you can't excuse some of the things he has allowed under his watch. He completely alienated a crucial part of this team last season in Alex, has consistently played favorites at the cost of the teams overall performance (see Bernie Williams and Hideki Matsui), has shown no ability to manage the pen, and to top it off allowed that bug fiasco to go down the way it did in Cleveland.
Fabien Brandy
10-07-07, 12:38 PM
The conventional wisdom is that 10 years is the longest one should stay at a job and I think Torre has settled into a comfort zone where he no longer has to prove himself. I hope the Yankees can avoid a backlash but a new vision is needed and I sense Brian Cashman feels the same way, given the infusion of youth players both now and on the way.
It bothers me to see Joe take the heat in the media because this team isn't hitting. Not his fault. Not saying he's done everything perfectly, but he can't force them to hit the ball. I hate when George remembers his power lol, it scares me what he can do.
Girardi, if we had to change managers, would be a much better choice.
I, for one, do not wish to see Joe go. I think that people had better be careful what they wish for, because I think that people are banking on the fact that the next manager, whomever he may be, will do a better job than Joe and guarantee us yearly entry into the WS. Joe makes some frustrating decisions, but there is no manager who doesn't. He has gotten us into the playoffs 12 years in a row. He has won 4 WS, 6 pennants total. The players either like or love him (except for Sheffield and Lofton, who are morons). Obviously, he knows how to guide a team to glory. This particular team doesn't seem to be able to handle the spotlight shining brightest and goes into hibernation. A new manager will not necessarily change that, and may make it worse (i.e. miss the playoffs altogether).
Definitely agree.
How has Joe been treated poorly? If you read the article, Steinbrenner has said Torre has been good for us, but he is the highest paid manager in the league. And if you are the highest paid manager in the league for the past couple of years you need to start showing some results or else. How is that disrepectful? Disrepectful would be insulting Torre and firing him during the season.
As gratifying as it may be for some fans to hear the general in Steinbrenner re-awaken, giving your team and your manager a public ultimatum on the eve of an elimination game is certainly ill-timed, disrespectful and a bit irresponsible, in my opinion.
For the boss, this positions HIM as the reason the team won if they win, and it places all the blame on Torre if they don't. Regardless of what happens in this series, most of this team considers Joe the heart and soul of the team, and threats against him when the team's back is against the wall is a slap in the face to the most effective Yankees manager since Casey Stengel.
The more I think about it, the more shameful it is.
frostdude1
10-07-07, 12:44 PM
nomaas :lol:
http://www.nomaas.org/images/angryboss.jpg
CallOfTheCrow
10-07-07, 12:45 PM
I can't help but think that if Torre is out, then Cashman may be as well. The most logical replacement for Brian would be Damon Oppenheimer. They have already talked about Damon taking over when Brian wasn't sure he wanted to renew, and was pretty close to signing on as Philadelphia's new GM. Damon has certainly done a very admireable job with the draft since he has taken control of it, but I still sincerely hope Cashman doesn't go anywhere.
As far as Torre is concerned, I am pretty much torn. I realize that Torre leaving might very well mean that some part of Mo, Posada, and Andy will consider not returning. At the same time, you can't excuse some of the things he has allowed under his watch. He completely alienated a crucial part of this team last season in Alex, has consistently played favorites at the cost of the teams overall performance (see Bernie Williams), has shown no ability to manage the pen, and to top it off allowed that bug fiasco to go down the way it did in Cleveland.
Yeah that's definitely possible as well, I can see Cash Money getting the axe as well but let's hope not. I like Cashman as the GM & in charge of baseball operations with Openheimer in charge of the draft & scouting.
I want to win as much as the next guy but there has to be somebody in that front office besides Cashman that tells Steinbrenner about what an amazing job Cashman & Oppenheimer have done. I really don't want to see our farm disintegrate for a quick fix every year because George wants to win at all costs every year.
I guess Steinbrenner agrees with what a lot of fans have been saying here. Sure, good pitching shuts down offenses, but every year? We have some sort of major malfunction if we can't get out of the first round.
That malfunction is a team effort and it starts with Torre. And like many have said, if the players like him so much...go win a game, otherwise your buddy gets fired. It will be doubly crushing to them now, knowing they are directly responsible for him being fired if they lose. And for too many years now there has been no consequence for their horrid play in the post-season.
If all of us don't do our job, we get fired.
Welcome to reality.
That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.
Exactly. Just a terribly timed statement.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-07, 12:48 PM
That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.
Yeah, being cool and calm has gotten us real far.
As gratifying as it may be for some fans to hear the general in Steinbrenner re-awaken, giving your team and your manager a public ultimatum on the eve of an elimination game is certainly ill-timed, disrespectful and a bit irresponsible, in my opinion.
For the boss, this positions HIM as the reason the team won if they win, and it places all the blame on Torre if they don't. Regardless of what happens in this series, most of this team considers Joe the heart and soul of the team, and threats against him when the team's back is against the wall is a slap in the face to the most effective Yankees manager since Casey Stengel.
The more I think about it, the more shameful it is
Someone needed to tell Torre to start managing and instead of relying on the cruise control button.
Well thats your opinion, Steinbrenner is paying Torre a lot of money and isn't getting any results. Steinbrenner hasn't said anything disrespectful. All he is saying is that this is the year that if you don't deliver results, you won't be here next year.
Exactly. Just a terribly timed statement.
Last year he said nothing and we lost.
Oh and the year before.
Don't you think he has the right to try something different?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over that doesn't work.
Rocketman
10-07-07, 12:54 PM
I am totally thrilled. This is the best news I've heard all day.
TheYankee
10-07-07, 12:54 PM
Yeah, being cool and calm has gotten us real far.So, when things aren't going right, throw caution to the wind? Just because his "silence" hasn't worked doesn't mean he must flip out... George is George. What he does is his own business... but there's no way that his comments "help" the team.
TheYankee
10-07-07, 12:55 PM
Last year he said nothing and we lost.
Oh and the year before.
Don't you think he has the right to try something different?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over that doesn't work.And to believe that George's comments help the team are simply silly to me. They are trivial comments... if anything, they may hurt, but I'd dare say they don't do a damn thing.
So, when things aren't going right, throw caution to the wind? Just because his "silence" hasn't worked doesn't mean he must flip out... George is George. What he does is his own business... but there's no way that his comments "help" the team.
Last time I checked George is the one paying the bills. He is the one who made Torre the highest paid manager in the league and isn't getting any results for the past couple of years. I think George has a right to say if you don't give me results, I going to make some changes.
TheYankee
10-07-07, 12:59 PM
Last time I checked George is the one paying the bills. He is the one who made Torre the highest paid manager in the league and isn't getting any results for the past couple of years. I think George has a right to say if you don't give me results, I going to make some changes.Read my post again... "George is George. What he does is his own business." Where the hell are you getting the notion that I don't he has a right to say whatever he wants?
What I'm saying is that to believe his comments actually have some tangible effect on the way the team plays is simply silly.
Graig and Thurm and Willie and Reggie and Chris and Lou and Mickey and Cat and Sparky and Goose and Roy and Gator and Ed and Dick and those guys would take those words and go out there and win three in a row.
Let's hope Derek and Roger and Alex and Doug and Jason and Johnny and Robinson and Bobby and Melky and those guys do as well.
At least 4 years too late imo.
Torre is a wonderful person, a great player's coach, and, I would even argue, an outstanding regular season manager... But his flaws are magnified in a short series. He simply does NOT put this team into the best position to win games on a day to day, game to game, sort of basis.
I can say with relative confidence that we have at least 1 more WS ring by now if another manager was calling the shots the last 5 post seasons. However, the catch 22 of the situation is, can I say we even make the playoffs this year without him? Dunno.
Regardless, it is time for the team to find out how its talent will do with a better baseball strategist at the helm, someone who can truly optimize the available talent and put it in the best position to win every single day.
CallOfTheCrow
10-07-07, 01:02 PM
Read my post again... "George is George. What he does is his own business." Where the hell are you getting the notion that I don't he has a right to say whatever he wants?
What I'm saying is that to believe his comments actually have some tangible effect on the way the team plays is simply silly.
Agreed. I really doubt that once Torre & the team hear of the comments, they all of a sudden will go "ohhhhhh okay, NOW we'll start playing harder."
At least 4 years too late imo.
Torre is a wonderful person, a great player's coach, and, I would even argue, an outstanding regular season manager... But his flaws are magnified in a short series. He simply does NOT put this team into the best position to win games on a day to day, game to game, sort of basis.
I can say with relative confidence that we have at least 1 more WS ring by now if another manager was calling the shots the last 5 post seasons. However, the catch 22 of the situation is, can I say we even make the playoffs this year without him? Dunno.
Regardless, it is time for the team to find out how it's talent will do with a better baseball strategist at the helm, someone who can truly optimize the available talent and put it in the best position to win every single day.
If you're looking for a coach to employ strategy, then Donnie is not going to be that guy. Girardi, howerver, would be.....
TheYankee
10-07-07, 01:04 PM
Agreed. I really doubt that once Torre & the team hear of the comments, they all of a sudden will go "ohhhhhh okay, NOW we'll start playing harder."Exactly... I don't think these guys are going to take their cues to start playing from George Steinbrenner... generally, a World Series title is motivation enough.
iWant27
10-07-07, 01:05 PM
I think The Boss did the right thing . He is not spending all this money to just get into the playoffs but atleast to get to the world series .
I know its very hard to make the playoffs year in year out , but it seems like past few years Yankees ( for whatever reason ) dig themselves a big hole in april and may and then play GREAT baseball last 3-4 months and get into playoffs . May be they just get tired or something happens , in playoffs they just kind of fizzle out .
Cashman and Torre get a lots of credit for combacks in last 3 months every year .
But how about , why in the first place they play so bad in first 2 months .
This season Cashman started the season with SPers in Igawa , Pavano , Karstens , Rasner etc . The offence was pretty good in april but due to lack of SP , bullpen got worn out and May was terrible .
I think the investment The Boss is making in this team , I wont be surprised he lets go Torre and whoever wanna tag along with him .
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 01:07 PM
I am absolutely shocked that The Boss had the wherewithal to make these statements; I thought that those days were long gone.
Wow! It's like 1977, 1978 again!
Except that team was a very mentally tough team with a 25-3 pitcher, the toughest SOB in the league catching him and Mr. October leading the way along with a manager with unpredictable behavior. They were used to the daily tirades so the post season was nothing compared to that pressure. This team isn't THAT team. George is having flashbacks but that won't help this team win games. Maybe they should turn Son of Sam loose and have another blackout so we can relive the whole era.
iWant27
10-07-07, 01:09 PM
I don't think there is a single player on the team that will be affected by this in even the slightest way.
May be they should be . Its like a employee doesnt get affected when employer calls him out and wants better results .
I dont know what you mean by your statement . Do you mean they dont respect George . Do you mean they think its just a old guy bambling about .
I think the quick reaction is to think that Stein did this as a shot at Torre, but he may have just been trying to give notice to all of us attending tonight that if we want to give Joe a proper send off, then we may have to do it over the next 2 games...I would love to have a "Paul O-Neal" chant over the last few innings...Joe has earned it...
TheYankee
10-07-07, 01:13 PM
May be they should be . Its like a employee doesnt get affected when employer calls him out and wants better results .
I dont know what you mean by your statement . Do you mean they dont respect George . Do you mean they think its just a old guy bambling about .He meant exactly what he said with his statement... do you really think the Yankees have been waiting for George to tell them to play? You don't think a World Series title was motivation enough? That's pretty naive, don't you think?
metalyank
10-07-07, 01:15 PM
Yeah, being cool and calm has gotten us real far.
Of course, getting to the postseason 13 consecutive years is a birthright, not a product of hard work.
If you're looking for a coach to employ strategy, then Donnie is not going to be that guy. Girardi, howerver, would be.....
My fingers are crossed.
Mattingly, IMHO, would be an unmitigated disaster. Not proven at all, and certainly not enough experience to run the New York Yankees. Plus, if the team were not successful under his management, it would make for a very messy situation- a beloved NYY would need to be fired, and this would be ugly and could lead to major rifts. Or Mattingly's legacy would delay his termination to the detriment of the team.
Girardi, if we had to change managers, would be a much better choice.
I, for one, do not wish to see Joe go. I think that people had better be careful what they wish for, because I think that people are banking on the fact that the next manager, whomever he may be, will do a better job than Joe and guarantee us yearly entry into the WS. Joe makes some frustrating decisions, but there is no manager who doesn't. He has gotten us into the playoffs 12 years in a row. He has won 4 WS, 6 pennants total. The players either like or love him (except for Sheffield and Lofton, who are morons). Obviously, he knows how to guide a team to glory. This particular team doesn't seem to be able to handle the spotlight shining brightest and goes into hibernation. A new manager will not necessarily change that, and may make it worse (i.e. miss the playoffs altogether).
Agreed, Mattingly is apparently more laid back then Torre if thats possible. Girardi has experience, hes a former catcher which is always good and hes gort some fire. Im not saying the yankees need like a Lou Pinella type crazy guy but Girardi is smart enough to know when to be calm and also when to lay some discipline down. With the influx of young pitching we have coming out of our system very similar to what they had in Florida this seems like a no brainer to me.
jnewmark
10-07-07, 01:25 PM
My fingers are crossed.
Just curious here.... If Girardi does'nt get this team to the post season next year, or the team looses in the first round, is he gone?
Just curious here.... If Girardi does'nt get this team to the post season next year, or the team looses in the first round, is he gone?
I dont think so because if we do the right thing this offseason we should expect to have 3 second year or basically rookies in the rotation next year. By the right thing I mean get rid of Mussina by the way. Even George Steinbrennar has been around the game long enough to realize you need a year or two to get these guys going.
nomaas :lol:
http://www.nomaas.org/images/angryboss.jpg
Okay that is brilliant. :lol: I needed to laugh, I'm a nervous wreck about this game!
Agreed. I really doubt that once Torre & the team hear of the comments, they all of a sudden will go "ohhhhhh okay, NOW we'll start playing harder."
Haha really. :lol:
Just curious here.... If Girardi does'nt get this team to the post season next year, or the team looses in the first round, is he gone?
If he became the new manager, and that was the result, I would hope not. I really am hoping he does take over for Joe whenever Joe leaves/is fired. I think Girardi would be a good fit.
NelsonMuntz
10-07-07, 01:30 PM
If you're looking for a coach to employ strategy, then Donnie is not going to be that guy. Girardi, howerver, would be.....
Agreed. Girardi is the guy I want managing the team if Torre is not brought back. If Mattingly is in line to take over then I would rather they just keep Torre.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 01:33 PM
Agreed, Mattingly is apparently more laid back then Torre if thats possible. Girardi has experience, hes a former catcher which is always good and hes gort some fire. Im not saying the yankees need like a Lou Pinella type crazy guy but Girardi is smart enough to know when to be calm and also when to lay some discipline down. With the influx of young pitching we have coming out of our system very similar to what they had in Florida this seems like a no brainer to me.
And maybe Girardi will tell the Boss to be quiet and mind his own business like he did in Florida. Or maybe he will bring Joba back out after a rain delay and injure his arm. The grass is always greener, isn't it?
46Mattingly23
10-07-07, 01:33 PM
I love how my hometown paper got the scoop, and also I don't have a problem with what he said.
And maybe Girardi will tell the Boss to be quiet and mind his own business like he did in Florida. Or maybe he will bring Joba back out after a rain delay and injure his arm. The grass is always greener, isn't it?
If were gonna talk about Girardi in Florida one thing should stick out. He took a bunch of minor leaguers and had them playing important games into September. Now obviously, with the veterans on the yankees he will change some of his ways Im sure he will not have to treat the players like a high school baseball coach the way he had to with the Marlins but you know hes gonna manage aggressively and you know he knows the game inside and out and has credibility as a former yankee who has 3 rings. You cant ask for much more than that I think.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 01:40 PM
If were gonna talk about Girardi in Florida one thing should stick out. He took a bunch of minor leaguers and had them playing important games into September. Now obviously, with the veterans on the yankees he will change some of his ways Im sure he will not have to treat the players like a high school baseball coach the way he had to with the Marlins but you know hes gonna manage aggressively and you know he knows the game inside and out and has credibility as a former yankee who has 3 rings. You cant ask for much more than that I think.
Don't get me wrong, I like Girardi. I'm just not convinced he is the right fit to handle everything it takes to manage the Yankees, the media, the Boss and the expectations. Yeah he did the unexpected in Florida but that's the point. How would he handle the highest of expectations? I don't know.
roblyo33
10-07-07, 01:40 PM
If were gonna talk about Girardi in Florida one thing should stick out. He took a bunch of minor leaguers and had them playing important games into September. Now obviously, with the veterans on the yankees he will change some of his ways Im sure he will not have to treat the players like a high school baseball coach the way he had to with the Marlins but you know hes gonna manage aggressively and you know he knows the game inside and out and has credibility as a former yankee who has 3 rings. You cant ask for much more than that I think.
I have not been impressed with Girardi's input when he has broadcast games for YES and FOX. Is he just being coy?? This is not a reason for not hiring him as manager but, just a comment.
yankees101
10-07-07, 01:42 PM
My fingers are crossed.For Girardi as manager if Joe doesn't return? Hell yeah. We can only hope.
Rocketbooster
10-07-07, 01:43 PM
I don't feel sorry for them at all - poor babies, with so much pressure on them. They put themselves in this position by their crappy play in the first two games. Suck it up and win, show some guts. I don't get this idea that George is putting all the pressure on them to win for Joe. If he never said a word, there would still be enormous pressure on them........unless they don't think it's a big deal to get swept and lose for the 3rd time in a row in the first round.
This is about Joe, not Cash. I think Cash is safe - if George was going to fire him, it would have been last year (or was it the year before -sorry, I'm blanking out) when Brian basically laid it out on the line.
I love Joe, but the idea that Mo and Jorge will leave unless he returns is pretty outlandish. I can't picture them in any uniform other than the Yankees and this is where their careers will end. If they did leave because of Joe, then I would lose respect for them, but that's not going to happen.
What's with the love affair with Joe Girardi? If Joe is gone, I wouldn't exactly mind the other Joe stepping in, but keep in mind that he had a very bad relationship with the Marlins' ownership. He's reputed to be rather stubborn........I do think he would handle the young pitching well, though, and that's key. I love Joe, but I don't trust him that much with Joba, Phil, etc.........(although I can't say he did anything wrong with Phil this year, I don't think he has any idea what to do with him in the playoffs, and that's wrong)
Don't get me wrong, I like Girardi. I'm just not convinced he is the right fit to handle everything it takes to manage the Yankees, the media, the Boss and the expectations. Yeah he did the unexpected in Florida but that's the point. How would he handle the highest of expectations? I don't know.
Hes handled them as a player and lets remember a lot of people thought it was a big time head scratcher bringing him in to be the starting catcher in 96 especially replacing Mike Stanley who was popular and an offensive threat, he didnt let that bother him and just went out and did his job while at the same time tutoring his replacement in Posada. Girardi knows the deal with New York, he knows whats expected of him. If he didnt think he could handle it he couldve gone to Baltimore this year. If he fails then he fails but I dont see a better option right now.
I have not been impressed with Girardi's input when he has broadcast games for YES and FOX. Is he just being coy?? This is not a reason for not hiring him as manager but, just a comment.
His comments on the intracicies of the game are pretty insightful I think. I think knowing that he could be managing these guys soon he probably wants to stay away from making any personal comments about any players or coaches.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 01:48 PM
I don't feel sorry for them at all - poor babies, with so much pressure on them. They put themselves in this position by their crappy play in the first two games. Suck it up and win, show some guts. I don't get this idea that George is putting all the pressure on them to win for Joe. If he never said a word, there would still be enormous pressure on them........unless they don't think it's a big deal to get swept and lose for the 3rd time in a row in the first round.
This is about Joe, not Cash. I think Cash is safe - if George was going to fire him, it would have been last year (or was it the year before -sorry, I'm blanking out) when Brian basically laid it out on the line.
I love Joe, but the idea that Mo and Jorge will leave unless he returns is pretty outlandish. I can't picture them in any uniform other than the Yankees and this is where their careers will end. If they did leave because of Joe, then I would lose respect for them, but that's not going to happen
This is going to be a distraction. Do you think the media won't be asking a lot of questions? This will be the LEAD storyline of the game tonight and you can bank on it. The players don't need to be thinking about this at all, but human nature dictates they will and it will be in the back of their minds while they are playing. George's heart is in the right place but as usual his timing just plain sucks.
"The Straw"
10-07-07, 01:49 PM
At least 4 years too late imo.
Torre is a wonderful person, a great player's coach, and, I would even argue, an outstanding regular season manager... But his flaws are magnified in a short series. He simply does NOT put this team into the best position to win games on a day to day, game to game, sort of basis.
I can say with relative confidence that we have at least 1 more WS ring by now if another manager was calling the shots the last 5 post seasons. However, the catch 22 of the situation is, can I say we even make the playoffs this year without him? Dunno.
Regardless, it is time for the team to find out how its talent will do with a better baseball strategist at the helm, someone who can truly optimize the available talent and put it in the best position to win every single day.
HUH? We would have one more W.S. if Mariano didn't blow that save in 2001. What kind of strategy would another manager have used in that situation? Or in 2003 how would another manager have kept our team from getting smoked by a younger team after we blew our load against Boston? What would Girardi for instance have done in Games 1 and 2 to get these guys to hit Sabathia and Carmona? The fact is this team has been in the same situation for a few years for two reasons. A suspect rotation and a awful bull pen both of them being the fault of the G.M.. That being said if they lose to Cleveland and "The Boss" fires all of them he would be well within his rights.
NYYFAN5388
10-07-07, 01:51 PM
this is all we need
This is going to be a distraction. Do you think the media won't be asking a lot of questions? This will be the LEAD storyline of the game tonight and you can bank on it. The players don't need to be thinking about this at all, but human nature dictates they will and it will be in the back of their minds while they are playing. George's heart is in the right place but as usual his timing just plain sucks.
From the way the players spoke about Torre in their wild card celebration it could fire them up for tonights game because they seem to believe in him so much. I dont like Torre but whatever gets the players going is good.
This opens the door for a certain someone...a certain WS-winning manager with a ton of experience winning and also dealing with super ego's of superstars such as Canstrikeout, McGwire, Pullholes....
LaRussa in '08?!?
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 01:56 PM
Hes handled them as a player and lets remember a lot of people thought it was a big time head scratcher bringing him in to be the starting catcher in 96 especially replacing Mike Stanley who was popular and an offensive threat, he didnt let that bother him and just went out and did his job while at the same time tutoring his replacement in Posada. Girardi knows the deal with New York, he knows whats expected of him. If he didnt think he could handle it he couldve gone to Baltimore this year. If he fails then he fails but I dont see a better option right now.
If you are talking about Torre definitely being gone then Girardi may be the best option. But to me Torre is still the best option for the job. Torre has his faults to be certain (I disagreed with him starting Wang in game 1, then leaving him in too long), but let's be real. Every manager is second guessed by his decisions. Girardi won't be immune. Torre has given the Yankees stability and he has never missed the post season with this team. He won 4 titles and 6 pennants. Maybe that's not good enough anymore, even though they haven't had the pitching. This whole discussion should be taking place after the season is over, but now we can't help it because George decided to open his mouth. I hope this team can find a way to overcome all of it, for everyone's sake.
OldYankeeFan
10-07-07, 01:59 PM
This is going to be a distraction. Do you think the media won't be asking a lot of questions? This will be the LEAD storyline of the game tonight and you can bank on it. The players don't need to be thinking about this at all, but human nature dictates they will and it will be in the back of their minds while they are playing. George's heart is in the right place but as usual his timing just plain sucks.
You are right and in the past it really wasn't a bad thing. I really don't think the players will be actively thinking about it, and having the reporters talk about Torre takes the spotlight off A-Rod and the players. Again, not such a bad thing to happen.Wont be the first time George has played the media. H-e-e-e-e-s B-a-a-a-a-c-k.
SINCE77 2
10-07-07, 02:00 PM
George is right. Yankees have played like they are just trying to hold the line against the Indians. Victory comes not in the defense, but in the offense. Time to fix bayonets Torre.
RhodeyYankee2638
10-07-07, 02:00 PM
LaRussa in '08?!?
Uh, no
Casey37
10-07-07, 02:02 PM
This opens the door for a certain someone...a certain WS-winning manager with a ton of experience winning and also dealing with super ego's of superstars such as Canstrikeout, McGwire, Pullholes....
LaRussa in '08?!?
Thanks, but no thanks.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 02:02 PM
You are right and in the past it really wasn't a bad thing. I really don't think the players will be actively thinking about it, and having the reporters talk about Torre takes the spotlight off A-Rod and the players. Again, not such a bad thing to happen.Wont be the first time George has played the media. H-e-e-e-e-s B-a-a-a-a-c-k.
I wish I could believe this would relax everyone but I haven't seen this team in its entirety respond to this type of distraction. Last year everyone got to field questions all year about ARod. It didn't help.
fredgmuggs
10-07-07, 02:03 PM
I don't give Zimmer that much credit. Zimmer was on the staff in 2001, 2002, and 2003 as well.
I couldn't agree more.
Zimmer is a nice guy and a lifelong baseball person with an incredible amount of experience and insight, so I'm sure he had a lot to offer to the Yankees during his tenure.... but this notion that he was some type of baseball savant who pulled Torre's strings and now Torre is somehow lost without him is absurd. I saw Don Zimmer as a manager and train wreck is an apt description of him as a manager. But I guess people believe what they want to believe... so, Zimmer was the brains behind it all.
NYYDragoon
10-07-07, 02:04 PM
I think more highly of the players than that. They're smart enough to know Joe's situation without George having to spell it out and they're professional enough to go about their business without the words of a the current version of Mr Stainbrenner affecting their play.
The player contract stuff is just silliness so I won't bother to address that.
Yeah, they're professional, but that doesn't make them immune to things like this. There's a huge difference between speculation and fact, and this fact is bound to have some sort of impact. I'm most worried about the media: we already have them badgering everyone about how Arod is performing (and we see where that's getting him...). The last thing we need is some idiotic reporter asking Alex how he'll feel if he's responsible for Torre being out of a job. Christ.
How do you mean the contract stuff is silliness?
Retire21
10-07-07, 02:04 PM
I would love to have a "Paul O-Neal" chant over the last few innings...Joe has earned it...
This is a great post (other than the fact "O'Neal" is spelled "O'Neill" :) ). If the Yankees are losing in Games 3 or 4, I think in the 9th inning the fans let loose with a Joe Torre chant, and not of the booing variety. Like him or not, he more than deserves a send-off.
Some tears were shed when Paulie got the send-off in 2001. It felt like the end of an era- we now have the benefit of 6 years to know that it was. I'm sure if we lose tonight, some further tears will be shed, at least by me. I was 17 years old in 1995 when the Yankees got bounced by Seattle. It was the closest the Yankees had ever come to replicating what my Dad experienced as a Yankee fan in the championship years in the 50s and 60s. I'm 29 now and the Joe Torre Era has provided me with some wonderful Yankee memories, some championship memories. Because of those years, I now have something that I can pass on to a future son. Just because we haven't won since 2000 does not make those moments any less special. Is Joe's tenure perhaps a bit stained due to 2001-2007? Perhaps. But he was the anchor behind what could be the last dynasty in baseball history. He deserves an acknowledgement from Yankee fans for that.
bomber999
10-07-07, 02:09 PM
I guess Steinbrenner agrees with what a lot of fans have been saying here. Sure, good pitching shuts down offenses, but every year? We have some sort of major malfunction if we can't get out of the first round.
That malfunction is a team effort and it starts with Torre. And like many have said, if the players like him so much...go win a game, otherwise your buddy gets fired. It will be doubly crushing to them now, knowing they are directly responsible for him being fired if they lose. And for too many years now there has been no consequence for their horrid play in the post-season.
If all of us don't do our job, we get fired.
Welcome to reality.
Then if we're talking reality, how is Joe not doing his job when the offense is incompetant and Chien-Ming Wang is pitching batting practice and can't hold a lead? How is Joe not doing his job by guiding the Yankees to 12 consecutive playoff appearances, 4 WS, and 6 pennants? Instead of blaming Joe, when do we start considering that maybe we have a talented crew of players, but that this particular mix is lacking something when it comes to performing when the spotlight is brightest? Maybe we need some personnel changes on the active roster, rather than axing Joe, who in my opinion is not really a big part of the problem.
JeterRodriguezSheff
10-07-07, 02:10 PM
Cashman WAS in charge...a loss today and he might be gone as well
I would stop following this team if Cashman is fired. I wont become a Mets fan or a Red Sox fan or anything. I would just stop following baseball. If Steinbrenner decides to control the team again say goodbye to Hughes Joba Kennedy and Melky and hello to Torri Hunter and every pitcher over 38 who used to be really good.
Yankees Empire
10-07-07, 02:12 PM
How do remarks like this possibly help?? This is very reminiscent of the buffoonish tyrannical Steinbrenner of the 1980s- the raging prick who clearly knows nothing about how a baseball team works and how one is assembled.
Does anybody really think the players are going to think "My God, we need to really bear down!!" They're pros, fer crissakes. They know what's on the line.
Of course, it is Mr.Steinbrenner's right to remove the manager at any time he pleases and for whatever reason he sees fit. I just don't see what is served by these kinds of public statements.
Whether or not Joe Torre should be back as Yankees manager in 2008 is a legitimate question. To make these dictatorial pronouncements accomplishes nothing other than making our owner look like a wannabe Napoleon.
Shut up, George.
I would stop following this team if Cashman is fired. I wont become a Mets fan or a Red Sox fan or anything. I would just stop following baseball. If Steinbrenner decides to control the team again say goodbye to Hughes Joba Kennedy and Melky and hello to Torri Hunter and every pitcher over 38 who used to be really good.
I agree, no way Cashman deserves to get fired if they lose. If anything he should get more credit than Torre for the second half turn around since he was the one who brought in all of the young energy while Torre was losing day in and day out with his "guys" and his "reliable veterans" who he trusts.
JeterRodriguezSheff
10-07-07, 02:13 PM
I love George Steinbrenner and he's damn right. Get your act together or get out. Good to see the Boss has something left. That makes me happier than anything. Interesting comments about A-Rod too, I wonder if it will make a difference in the grand scheme of things. The only concern I have is that if this fire is still here, the knee-jerk reaction to give up a Hughes or Chamberlain for a Santana or Pujols or someone could be there and I think that would be a mistake. Hopefully that won't be the case.
Theres nothing wrong with givng up a Hughes or Chamberlain for once in a lifetime talents like Pujols. Or the best pitcher in the World in Santana. The problem is giving up those 2 players for somebody like a 40 year old Randy Johnson or 38 year old Kevin Brown.
JeterForPresident
10-07-07, 02:14 PM
I would stop following this team if Cashman is fired. I wont become a Mets fan or a Red Sox fan or anything. I would just stop following baseball. If Steinbrenner decides to control the team again say goodbye to Hughes Joba Kennedy and Melky and hello to Torri Hunter and every pitcher over 38 who used to be really good.
I would have trouble rooting for the team if they were reshaped that way and Cashman let go. I love Torre, but if it is time for him to go then so be it. Getting rid of Cashman would be a flat out mistake and hurt the team, simple as that.
JeterRodriguezSheff
10-07-07, 02:16 PM
Jesus, Mary and Joseph Torre...this was NOT the time to apply more pressure. You want to fire him, Boss? Fine. That's your right as owner of the team. But the team sure as hell didn't need this right now. He must have watching Oliver Pratt and remembered who he used to be. Maybe it's by design to ensure Torre is gone this time. This makes me sick. All they should be concentrating on is winning this damn game. Nobody should have to be thinking win the series or else Torre is gone. Dammit, George why why why?
I agree they need to take this one game at a time and focus on winning tonight. Now because of this, they are going to try to win the entire series tonight, and that is an impossible feat.
ZIM 2002
10-07-07, 02:17 PM
Lousy timing by George - and by saying it out loud, he can't be talked out of it, I'm sure. Altho I have problems with some of Joe's decisions, I really believe this team would NOT have been in the playoffs were it not for his managing of personalities, and I think that is something NY players need. As to who else might leave, Andy Pettitte said right out in his press conference yesterday that Joe coming back or not would be a factor he would consider in whether to return. I also don't think we can be so sure of Posada and Rivera, despite OUR not being able to imagine them being other teams - look how upset they were at how Bernie was treated; their loyalty should not be underestimated. As to who would be manager, I'd also prefer Girardi to Mattingly, but earlier this year George talked about Mattingly in a way that would suggest he would get the call. I'm not convinced that would be any better, and meanwhile we might lose key players. I've been upset since the "bug" game - now I'm a mental case over this!
It sure would be embarassing to the organization to join the Marlins as a team that fired a Manager of the Year.
fredgmuggs
10-07-07, 02:19 PM
How do remarks like this possibly help??.... (my apologies for editing out the remainder of remarks. Yankees Empire)
It doesn't.... but at least it gives us something else to talk about because the bug incident was becoming a bit tiresome.
I agree, no way Cashman deserves to get fired if they lose. If anything he should get more credit than Torre for the second half turn around since he was the one who brought in all of the young energy while Torre was losing day in and day out with his "guys" and his "reliable veterans" who he trusts.
Yep. But imo he also deserves some serious criticism for the start. This team was not well assembled and was not ready to compete in the early months. Our bullpen was weak, our starting rotation was incomplete, our bench was atrocious... and let's not forget his huge mistake with that new age trainer of his (which many feel was a large contributor to the injury spree that set us back)
I love Cash, hope and believe he will stay, but he doesn't walk on water and has room for improvement.
ZIM 2002
10-07-07, 02:22 PM
Well said, Bomber 999 - and Jasbro. Have we started our own curse of the killer Bs ("bugs")?:(
JeterRodriguezSheff
10-07-07, 02:23 PM
The best thing that could happen tonight for everyone is we score some runs early, Roger settles in, and we end up blowing them out. We need to open up a can tonight to get some of the swagger back.
While a win is obviously what we need, I think we also need a certain type of win that relaxes the players a bit, brings a few smiles, and perhaps settles everyone for a win in Game 4. A tight game could be nerve-wracking, with everything that is on the line.
An A-rod walk off homer win would be a huge momentum builder.
Just out of curiosity, the way one takes these comments seems to put you into one of two categories. I mean some fans hate it and some like it and very few are indifferent.
So what is the essential difference between these two types of fans. I see one type very aligned with the sentiments of the owner...a kind of zero sum mentality. Win or suffer. The other type of fans seems almost like a mother towards her children, very supportive, but without wanting the child to face reality.
Losing is not acceptable. There will be consequences. The super-star Yankees have been put on notice. Do it or your buddy gets fired.
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 02:25 PM
I would have trouble rooting for the team if they were reshaped that way and Cashman let go. I love Torre, but if it is time for him to go then so be it. Getting rid of Cashman would be a flat out mistake and hurt the team, simple as that.
Not me, I am a Yankee fan not a Cashman fan..I wouldn't
like it but I still would be a Yankee fan
YANKEE MAGIC
10-07-07, 02:26 PM
An A-rod walk off homer win would be a huge momentum builder.
I hope it's not that close of a game!
CallOfTheCrow
10-07-07, 02:28 PM
I hope it's not that close of a game!
Seriously, I want a beat down early on.
Spiker101
10-07-07, 02:28 PM
I agree, no way Cashman deserves to get fired if they lose. If anything he should get more credit than Torre for the second half turn around since he was the one who brought in all of the young energy while Torre was losing day in and day out with his "guys" and his "reliable veterans" who he trusts.
No matter what happens Cashman should be given another year or two to see if his long-range plan bears fruit. But it's ridiculous to think that the current team's problem isn't in part Cashman's fault. The Yanks' finished the season with an ERA+ of 96. That's nothing short of awful and it's been like that every season since '03. You don't win very often in the playoffs with below mediocre pitching. If you examine the starting pitching matchups over the last 15 playoff games, the Yanks have had an advantage in very few of them.
Cashman is responsible for Pavano, Igawa, Farnsworth and a few other poor choices. Though in all honesty the larger share of responsibility lies with the guy who opened his big mouth at the very worst possible moment: George Steinbrenner and his cabal of sycophants commonly known as the Tampa Faction.
TheInfallibleOne
10-07-07, 02:28 PM
If Torre gets fired, we essentially have Girardi. If Cashman gets fired, were screwed. If the Boss trades the yound core, I'll be pissed.
The Yankees will respond (they would have anyway).
The Yankees will win it all.
Joe will be back next year.
People will be fighting about him in 2008.
MattUNC2003
10-07-07, 02:37 PM
If Torre gets fired, we essentially have Girardi. If Cashman gets fired, were screwed. If the Boss trades the yound core, I'll be pissed.
Yes on the Cashman part.
I think that Torre getting replaced wouldn't be a bad thing. I've always been a Torre fan and I think he did a great job with this team this year, but I think it's time to move on.
I'm of the opinion right now that Torre needs to step down at the end of the year, no matter the outcome of the season, just to inject some new life into the Yankee manager role. He's been there for over 10 years, it feels like he's stagnating. I think it's just time for a change. I'm sure that there are many people out there who work who can sympathize with the idea of getting worn out after a certain amount of time at the same job. It just happens.
I'd love to see Girardi next year, or Don Mattingly. Just someone different. I have always liked Joe, I still like Joe, but it's time for a change.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-07, 02:37 PM
In the year 2000, in the year 2000!!
fredgmuggs
10-07-07, 02:37 PM
Just out of curiosity, the way one takes these comments seems to put you into one of two categories. I mean some fans hate it and some like it and very few are indifferent.
So what is the essential difference between these two types of fans. I see one type very aligned with the sentiments of the owner...a kind of zero sum mentality. Win or suffer. The other type of fans seems almost like a mother towards her children, very supportive, but without wanting the child to face reality.
Losing is not acceptable. There will be consequences. The super-star Yankees have been put on notice. Do it or your buddy gets fired.I guess I'm in the indifferent category because I've lived with this stuff from George for so long now that this type of behavior from him has just become part of the woodwork. He's always been a guy who thinks if you threaten someone's job that will motivate him. And I really believe this announcement is more of an attempt by George to resurrect his persona from years past than it is anything else. Its sad really.
3M'sBoys
10-07-07, 02:39 PM
My 'title' hasn't changed since May. It's almost worth seeing us lose to get a new manager. ;)
And you call yourself a fan? Wow.
And you call yourself a fan? Wow.
See the winky smiley? He's being facetious.
I wouldn't mind losing it all so that we can thin out the herd a little bit.;)
IntangiblesRule
10-07-07, 02:42 PM
See the winky smiley? He's being facetious.
I wouldn't mind losing it all so that we can thin out the herd a little bit.;)
And you call yourself a fan? Wow.
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 02:43 PM
Abraham chimes in things:
Whether it was a good idea by Big Stein or not isn’t really the point. It’s his team and he can say or do what he wants. Besides …
2003: Yankees lost in World Series
2004: Yankees lost in ALCS
2005: Yankees lost division series in 5 games
2006: Yankees lost division series in 4 games
2007: Yankees down 0-2 in division series
Steinbrenner is 77 and losing patience. He can see the trend as well as anybody because he signs the checks. I’m not convinced somebody other than Torre would make a big difference. In fact, somebody else could make things much, much worse.
But the idea of at least trying somebody else starts to make sense at some point.
http://yankees.lohudblogs.com/
Spiker101
10-07-07, 02:45 PM
And I really believe this announcement is more of an attempt by George to resurrect his persona from years past than it is anything else. Its sad really.
Yeah, it's pathetic. The threat to Torre is no big deal to me as everybody and their dog Spot realized Joe was gone if they didn't get past Cleveland, but I can't imagine anyone in the organization is pleased with George reaming out the umps on game day. And I'm betting Cashman was absolutely livid to have Steinbrenner open contract negotiations with ARod, publicly and in-season. Idiotic.
NYYDragoon
10-07-07, 02:46 PM
Back in 2004, ESPN made some long term prediction about how the Yanks' performances in the postseason would get steadily worse over time. I didn't believe it then (who would), but TBT...that stat you posted is just eerie.
Let's break the trend tonight, regardless of Joe's future in the Bronx.
OldYankeeFan
10-07-07, 02:46 PM
I hope it's not that close of a game!
Me too. A three HR game from A-Rod that helps puts it away early would be a huge momentum builder too. Not to mention it will help save my carpet (I'm a pacer and can't sit still in tight games :D )
JeterRodriguezSheff
10-07-07, 02:48 PM
Just out of curiosity, the way one takes these comments seems to put you into one of two categories. I mean some fans hate it and some like it and very few are indifferent.
So what is the essential difference between these two types of fans. I see one type very aligned with the sentiments of the owner...a kind of zero sum mentality. Win or suffer. The other type of fans seems almost like a mother towards her children, very supportive, but without wanting the child to face reality.
Losing is not acceptable. There will be consequences. The super-star Yankees have been put on notice. Do it or your buddy gets fired.
Im not over protective. I dont care if Torre gets fired if we lose, however wait for that to happen first. However I want the team to be in the best position to win. And if they are trying to win the entire series tonight, then its just not going to happen. They have to take this one game at a time and Steinbrenner's whole comment is going to make that pretty difficult.
Make the changes if you feel it is necessary. Wait for the Yankee season to be officially over before talking about it. Otherwise you are going to decrease the chances of success and the chances of a come back.
CalYankeeFan
10-07-07, 02:49 PM
What a great motivation tool, NOT! I think Mr Steinbrenner has been watching to much of the Bronx is Burning, this isn't the Martin era anymore....
Without Steinbrenner there is no Bronx is Burning.
Bambino22
10-07-07, 02:54 PM
I agree with Steinbrenner.
Spiker101
10-07-07, 02:55 PM
Abraham chimes in things:
http://yankees.lohudblogs.com/
"Whether it was a good idea by Big Stein or not isn’t really the point. It’s his team and he can say or do what he wants."
I'm getting sick and tired of hearing this line from the Steinbrenner apologists. Legally of course he is the owner and nothing in the law can stop him. But in a moral sense that's baloney. The Yankees are more than the owner. There's the players and the coaches, the front office personnel and the fans. This is the team as well. And it sure as hell can't be denied that the players and the coaches, the front office personnel and the fans have given more to the team than Steinbrenner ever did. George has a moral responsibility to act in the team's best interests and he sure as hell didn't do that with this interview. I'll be glad when he's gone.
TheInfallibleOne
10-07-07, 02:58 PM
"Whether it was a good idea by Big Stein or not isn’t really the point. It’s his team and he can say or do what he wants."
I'm getting sick and tired of hearing this line from the Steinbrenner apologists. Legally of course he is the owner and nothing in the law can stop him. But in a moral sense that's baloney. The Yankees are more than the owner. There's the players and the coaches, the front office personnel and the fans. This is the team as well. And it sure as hell can't be denied that the players and the coaches, the front office personnel and the fans have given more to the team than Steinbrenner ever did. George has a moral responsibility to act in the team's best interests and he sure as hell didn't do that with this interview. I'll be glad when he's gone.
Give Jim Dolan one season with this team and you will be findng yourself on ebay looking for a Ouija board to get him back.
Evil Empire
10-07-07, 02:59 PM
The Yankees will respond (they would have anyway).
The Yankees will win it all.
Joe will be back next year.
People will be fighting about him in 2008.
Sounds good to me if it means another ring on his finger.
For tonight:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Giambi 1B
Matsui DH
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
This is why I will not miss Joe. It may or may not pay off... but the point is, it is a poor managerial decision. Matsui is an auto out. He is cold, he is hurt - it isn't even his fault. Giambi is dead weight at first and has a terrible glove. Along with all of the other things that can go wrong with Gimabi at first base instead of Doug, with an older hobbled Clemens on the mound this creates a dead space on the right side of our infield.
The smart move is to DH Gimabi, sit Matsui, and keep the defense at first.
UGH! I keep telling myself to just enjoy this as it might be the last time I see the team that I love in this form, but my god, this stuff frustrates the hell out of me.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 03:02 PM
"Whether it was a good idea by Big Stein or not isn’t really the point. It’s his team and he can say or do what he wants."
Well actually Mr. Abraham that IS the point. You certainly have a firm grasp for the obvious about doing or saying what he wants. It's a matter of when you do or say.
ericns1
10-07-07, 03:03 PM
Well - George has not lost his touch = the only question if they go out in three is does Mo and PO go with him? I hope this is not a return to the late 80s.
Spiker101
10-07-07, 03:06 PM
This is why I will not miss Joe. It may or may not pay off... but the point is, it is a poor managerial decision. Matsui is an auto out. He is cold, he is hurt - it isn't even his fault. Giambi is dead weight at first and has a terrible glove. Along with all of the other things that can go wrong with Gimabi at first base instead of Doug, with an older hobbled Clemens on the mound this creates a dead space on the right side of our infield.
The smart move is to DH Gimabi, sit Matsui, and keep the defense at first.
.
You do know that Matsui and Giambi both hit Wesbrook, that Eyechart doesn't and that Eyechart is 0-4 in the series and is hurting as well?
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 03:10 PM
For tonight:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Giambi 1B
Matsui DH
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
This is why I will not miss Joe. It may or may not pay off... but the point is, it is a poor managerial decision. Matsui is an auto out. He is cold, he is hurt - it isn't even his fault. Giambi is dead weight at first and has a terrible glove. Along with all of the other things that can go wrong with Gimabi at first base instead of Doug, with an older hobbled Clemens on the mound this creates a dead space on the right side of our infield.
The smart move is to DH Gimabi, sit Matsui, and keep the defense at first.
UGH! I keep telling myself to just enjoy this as it might be the last time I see the team that I love in this form, but my god, this stuff frustrates the hell out of me.
I was hoping to never see Giambi at 1B again. I actually wish he would spare the Yankees and retire after this season. Obviously Torre is rolling the dice with the sacrifice of defense. Hopefully Giambi can catch a Westbrook meatball and make it pay off. I guess if you're in Torre's shoes you try something different since your job was officially announced at being on the line.
I used to love post season baseball
Yes it's Steinbrenner's team, but now he's pouring on more pressure than the Yanks already must feel. It could be huge motivation for a big night, or it could backfire badly. Here's hoping for a huge night!:upset: :gulp:
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 03:14 PM
Also - the bug business was a disgrace; the game should have been delayed. (I personally wanted it called. Yanks win 1-0. Period. End of sentence! ;) ) But you have to be careful bringing that up - Cleveland had the same bugs. The fact that their players may not be as "sweet" as our players (and therefore the bugs went after them less) may be a factor - but I don't know that holds up in a court of law or public opinion.
Cleveland did NOT have the same amount of bugs in the top of the ninth. Check out the video of the game. It's just the way the ball bounces. I agree with Clemens in that I would have taken the teams off the field for a few minutes and tried to figure out what to do. The bug spray obviously made it worse.
This did affect the outcome of a game, and the umpires should be ashamed of themselves, as Steinbrenner said.
It's his team, and he can do what he wants. Professional or not, this team is 3-12 in their last 15 PS games. Nothing else has worked so far, so why not try this?
You do know that Matsui and Giambi both hit Wesbrook, that Eyechart doesn't and that Eyechart is 0-4 in the series and is hurting as well?
Yeah I've seen the numbers. And maybe a healthy Matsui who isn't on the coldest streak of his career would be a good play here.
If both Dougie and Matsui are auto outs, which it seems like they are, then you take the D... no?
Like I said, maybe it'll pay off... I sure hope it does... but again, it is a poor move imo and does not give us as good a chance to win as Giambi at DH.
God, you just see that? What I wouldn't give to have Ortiz and Manny. ><
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 03:16 PM
This is going to be a distraction. Do you think the media won't be asking a lot of questions? This will be the LEAD storyline of the game tonight and you can bank on it. The players don't need to be thinking about this at all, but human nature dictates they will and it will be in the back of their minds while they are playing. George's heart is in the right place but as usual his timing just plain sucks.
Let it be the lead. Let it motivate Giambi, ARod, Jeter, and the rest of these underperforming multimillionaires. They love Joe so much? Then show it.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 03:18 PM
Not me, I am a Yankee fan not a Cashman fan..I wouldn't
like it but I still would be a Yankee fan
He said nothing about Cashman, thankfully. Hal will stop him from doing something that stupid.
Let it be the lead. Let it motivate Giambi, ARod, Jeter, and the rest of these underperforming multimillionaires. They love Joe so much? Then show it.
Thats how I see this. Thats likely why Steinbrennar did this. Hes been watching his team play with no heart and no life the past 2 games and felt he needed to do something to wake them up. Like I said before the way the players talked about Torre in that wild card celebration it seems they really love him. If they love him so much go out there and save his job.
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 03:19 PM
I have decided the only way to deal with the stress of tonight's game is to drink heavily. If it works and the Yankees win, I will personally commit to consuming mass quantities until the Yankees have won their 27th title. I may not know they have done it until I am released from detox, but I'll do whatever it takes.
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:
I have decided the only way to deal with the stress of tonight's game is to drink heavily. If it works and the Yankees win, I will personally commit to consuming mass quantities until the Yankees have won their 27th title. I may not know they have done it until I am released from detox, but I'll do whatever it takes.
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:
Ok, im jumping on this bandwagon. Tomorrow is a holiday. No reason not too and I have an ulcer already over the starting lineup.
Let it be the lead. Let it motivate Giambi, ARod, Jeter, and the rest of these underperforming multimillionaires. They love Joe so much? Then show it.
Everyone who has been in baseball for more than 6 years is a multi-millionaire.
Get over it.
cupcollector99
10-07-07, 03:21 PM
Lots and lots of speculation on ESPN News right now.
roblyo33
10-07-07, 03:23 PM
Lots and lots of speculation on ESPN News right now.
Care to share some??
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 03:24 PM
Ok, im jumping on this bandwagon. Tomorrow is a holiday. No reason not too and I have an ulcer already over the starting lineup.
Cheers, brutha!
:gulp:
YankeeTom
10-07-07, 03:30 PM
I have decided the only way to deal with the stress of tonight's game is to drink heavily. If it works and the Yankees win, I will personally commit to consuming mass quantities until the Yankees have won their 27th title. I may not know they have done it until I am released from detox, but I'll do whatever it takes.
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:
/agreed
:gulp:
Salute !
cupcollector99
10-07-07, 03:30 PM
Care to share some??
Not really..;)
Olney was repeating pretty much everything that we already know. That Torre is having second thoughts on coming back if he wins, that his sources tell him that the Yankees FO has no idea who would replace Joe. JoPo, Mo and Arod all like Joe and it would make it tough to sign them if Joe is gone. Donny would most likely not take the job. Monday could be a historic day for the Yankees.
A whole lot of nothing dressed up as news.
This is ridiculous.... Minky sits so that Hideki can play????? Jesus christ at least with Minky in the lineup he is contributing at first base. How could Torre continue to trot Hideki out there with him having done absolutely nothing in months?????
Giambi is a disaster at first on a normal day, what is he going to be like in a crucial must win game??? These moves are the reason I can't in any way defend Joe.
Not really..;)
Olney was repeating pretty much everything that we already know. That Torre is having second thoughts on coming back if he wins, that his sources tell him that the Yankees FO has no idea who would replace Joe. JoPo, Mo and Arod all like Joe and it would make it tough to sign them if Joe is gone. Donny would most likely not take the job. Monday could be a historic day for the Yankees.
A whole lot of nothing dressed up as news.
Hopefully Monday is just a game 4. If not though Buster is right could be a complete change in direction for this team. Maybe not necessarily a bad thing though.
/agreed
:gulp:
Salute !
same
:gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp:
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 03:37 PM
Everyone who has been in baseball for more than 6 years is a multi-millionaire.
Get over it.
But not everyone, multimillionaire or not, has played like crap 3 of the last 15 PS games. Admittedly, they've run into great pitching and theirs has generally sucked, but you've seen the evidence on the field as well as I have, Jasbro.
What would you have them do? There has to be some sort of spark. Let it be this. Whether it works or not, at least it was something new that was tried.
cupcollector99
10-07-07, 03:39 PM
Torre says he doesn't read the papers when the team isn't playing well. He almost defends the Boss by stating it's his team and he can do what he wants.. Torre hasn't met with George yet and Moose said that the team is focused on winning game three.
IMO, George might be doing this to take the heat off Torre. If they win all people will talk about is the effort and if they lose, all people will discuss is George.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 03:39 PM
Not really..;)
Olney was repeating pretty much everything that we already know. That Torre is having second thoughts on coming back if he wins, that his sources tell him that the Yankees FO has no idea who would replace Joe. JoPo, Mo and Arod all like Joe and it would make it tough to sign them if Joe is gone. Donny would most likely not take the job. Monday could be a historic day for the Yankees.
A whole lot of nothing dressed up as news.
Take the high road, Joe. Retire no matter what.
BigCheese
10-07-07, 03:39 PM
But not everyone, multimillionaire or not, has played like crap 3 of the last 15 PS games. Admittedly, they've run into great pitching and theirs has generally sucked, but you've seen the evidence on the field as well as I have, Jasbro.
That's right, not every multimillionaire has played like crap 3 out of the last 15 PS games...
That's because most multimillionaires in the game aren't good enough to get their team into the playoffs every year, like some of our multimillionaires.
I dont exactly agree with the Idea that this all puts added pressure on the team to perform. The 77,78 team dealt with this on a daily basis and also had the Billy, Reggie stuff going on everyday and they won back to back titles. Much like this team there were a lot of big time stars on those teams and they thrived in this environment. This team should be able to do the same with all they have been through this year.
Spiker101
10-07-07, 03:42 PM
Hes been watching his team play with no heart and no life the past 2 games .
I want to know if you really think they're playing without heart.
I want to know if you really think they're playing without heart.
Maybe no heart is a bad choice of words but theyve definitly been playing with no life or emotion.
I want to know if you really think they're playing without heart.
sure looks like it. not a peep from any of the leaders...hell not even one fist pump.
roblyo33
10-07-07, 03:44 PM
Not really..;)
Olney was repeating pretty much everything that we already know. That Torre is having second thoughts on coming back if he wins, that his sources tell him that the Yankees FO has no idea who would replace Joe. JoPo, Mo and Arod all like Joe and it would make it tough to sign them if Joe is gone. Donny would most likely not take the job. Monday could be a historic day for the Yankees.
A whole lot of nothing dressed up as news.
Thanks!!!
yankeeman61
10-07-07, 03:51 PM
I dont exactly agree with the Idea that this all puts added pressure on the team to perform. The 77,78 team dealt with this on a daily basis and also had the Billy, Reggie stuff going on everyday and they won back to back titles. Much like this team there were a lot of big time stars on those teams and they thrived in this environment. This team should be able to do the same with all they have been through this year.
To your point RV, this team has been left alone until now. That BIB team was used to it and it was a special team. This team doesn't qualify as special.....yet
Spiker101
10-07-07, 03:52 PM
sure looks like it. not a peep from any of the leaders...hell not even one fist pump.
Huh? What the hell were they doing to Melky Cabrera in the dugout after the homer? What were they shouting to Andy Pettitte as they ran into the dugout after yet another magical escape act? This team is playing with plenty of heart. There just hasn't been much to cheer about yet. And I emphasize yet.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 03:52 PM
That's right, not every multimillionaire has played like crap 3 out of the last 15 PS games...
That's because most multimillionaires in the game aren't good enough to get their team into the playoffs every year, like some of our multimillionaires.
And how do we in NY think of the Atlanta Braves? Steinbrenner wants a team that goes a bit further in the playoffs, like most fans. He pays enormous sums to try to make this so.
I don't blame him this time. Playoffs are not enough. At least make the ALCS.
the_coach
10-07-07, 03:54 PM
I like the Steinbrenner statement...let these guys play of Torre's job.
I still think they take this series.
27IsNext
10-07-07, 04:25 PM
It falls on the offense. You want Joe back? Then get over whatever the heck is wrong with you and start getting some timely hits.
That's right, not every multimillionaire has played like crap 3 out of the last 15 PS games...
That's because most multimillionaires in the game aren't good enough to get their team into the playoffs every year, like some of our multimillionaires.
Lets not forget that Joe is also the highest paid manager in baseball. That gives Steinbrennar even more ammunition
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 05:00 PM
Mattingly had some interesting comments, courtesy of Abraham:
UPDATE, 5:23 p.m.: Here is what Don Mattingly had to say about Joe Torre:
“It’s obviously an uncomfortable situation for me. I don’t want to be caught in the middle of this. On the back end of that, Joe knows how I feel about him. He knows I would never do anything behind the scenes or anything else to backstab anybody. It’s not my character; it’s not part of me. I’m comfortable with that part of myself. Joe knows me, too, that I wouldn’t be doing that. My loyalty to him is as long as it has to be, really forever. He’s treated me great, he’s taught me tons.”
wileedog
10-07-07, 05:01 PM
That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.
Yes it's Steinbrenner's team, but now he's pouring on more pressure than the Yanks already must feel. It could be huge motivation for a big night, or it could backfire badly. Here's hoping for a huge night!
Just a thought to remember:
The majority of guys on this roster have never won anything with Joe Torre.
Some might not feel as much pressure as you think they will.
ericns1
10-07-07, 05:04 PM
The bug issue reminds me of 01 when the wind held up Shane Spencer's ball - if that had been a hit they would have one in 01 and then history would have been differnent these past 6 years.
wileedog
10-07-07, 05:07 PM
I want to know if you really think they're playing without heart.
http://static.flickr.com/34/73065111_e8aa45fdaa_m.jpg;)
Mattingly had some interesting comments, courtesy of Abraham:
Its not that they are firing Torre. His contract is up after this season and they won't renew it. The Yanks have the right to do that. The Yankees might think its time for a change. If the Yanks offer Mattingly the job and he says no because of Torre, I will lose some respect for Donnie.
TheBamTino24
10-07-07, 05:14 PM
Its not that they are firing Torre. His contract is up after this season and they won't renew it. The Yanks have the right to do that. The Yankees might think its time for a change. If the Yanks offer Mattingly the job and he says no because of Torre, I will lose some respect for Donnie.
No one is debating the Yankees have every right to fire Torre after 5 straight diminishing postseason returns. I think Mattingly just wanted to ensure what everyone probably already knew - there's nothing shady going on behind the scenes.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 05:18 PM
The difference was that Yogi was fired, Torre's contract won't be renewed.
There's no difference. The man is being told that he's not wanted here anymore.
The Q Bomb
10-07-07, 05:18 PM
sure looks like it. not a peep from any of the leaders...hell not even one fist pump. I have been upset with the way the team has played plenty of times during the last couple of seasons; I have been upset at some of the moves the manager has made and the moves the front office has made. I have been upset at how poorly individual players have played and how the team has played as a unit at times but I have never questioned the desire of the individual players or the team as a unit to win - I've never been given a reason to.
As a Yankee fan I have been privileged to watch great baseball for the last 13 years (sprinkled in with some pretty awful games to be sure) and along the way have had some bitter disappointments (of which I hope tonight will not be another) but I have never felt any of the players - even a couple of our rent-a-players, haven't given it their all. I doubt the fans of almost any other team can say that over such a long period of time.
GO YANKS!
There's no difference. The man is being told that he's not wanted here anymore.
Yes there was a difference. Yogi wasn't given a fair chance to manage that team. You are telling me 16 games is enough games to evaluate a manager. However Torre was given a fair chance to manage this team and has been unsuccessful the last 6 years in winning a World Series.
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