View Full Version : Steinbrenner puts Torre On Notice
PeteRFNY
10-07-07, 05:21 PM
Go George. No offense, but the Yankees really should have 3-4 more titles under their belts since 2000. As the old saying goes, you can't get rid of all 25 guys, so...
If GS wants to change things up, that's his perrogative. As the Pittsburgh Pirates once said to Ralph Kiner, "We're losing WITH you...we can lose just as well WITHOUT you". It could very well be the best thing for all parties if Joe moves on.
I know everyone talks about pitching, pitching, pitching in the post season, but what happens tonight is really all on the offense.
The Yankees had Sabathia on the ropes in Game 1 and just couldn't put him away. Then, they looked like the Devil Rays trying to play the 1927 Yankees in Game 2. Someone needs to step up on offense and see to it early that Clemens doesn't feel the pressure of having to pitch a shutout in order for the team to win.
No one is asking A-Rod to be the second coming of Reggie Jackson...but the second coming of Bucky Dent wouldn't hurt, either. At this point, the second coming of Luis Sojo would be nice.
Not surprising to read Bud Bundy's comments on Bug-gate - he's as clueless to player safety as the moronic umpires, apparently.
Meanwhile, the Red Sox are making quick work of the mighty Angels - the team no one wanted to match up against the Yankees.
jughead
10-07-07, 05:22 PM
Honestly, Steinbrenner's comments highly pleases the reactionary fan in me. It's nice to know someone in the organization seems to give a darn sometimes and won't just give some media-friendly line like "The Indians played hard, they deserved it, we just didn't focus, next year, blah blah blah"
Though it should be kept to a minimum.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 05:26 PM
Love what George said. It was perfect. About time we had Gereral George back in charge.
You do realize that when General George was running managers in & out of here from 1979-1995 we never won anything.
When George Steinbrenner, owner of the New York Yankees, was suspended from baseball and sitting on the sidelines the team flourished.
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:29 PM
So Joe has to go thru a season where over 25% of his starts come from rookies and then hear this a day before an elimination game? How about a vote of confidence George? I liked George better when he kept his mouth shut.
These guys are all professionals. I don't think its a quote like this from the owner that would make any of them say, "Crap--he means business. We'd better win today." They all know what's at stake.
They need to get out to a lead so they can relax. Westbrook is hittable.
Why should he do that?
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:30 PM
Bad timing George. C'mon wait till after the season and let Joe go gracefully.
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:38 PM
And how do we in NY think of the Atlanta Braves? Steinbrenner wants a team that goes a bit further in the playoffs, like most fans. He pays enormous sums to try to make this so.
I don't blame him this time. Playoffs are not enough. At least make the ALCS.
As my friend said to me when you look at this team coming into the season, any season for the past few years every time we say "That is a playoff team." Division, wildcard whatever but we know we have a team that SHOULD be going to the playoffs, bare minimum.
So ok, we got there, now what? Round 1 loss? Again? Then again?
Sorry Joe the bare minumum is nothing to get excited about, it's time to go in another direction.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 05:38 PM
This opens the door for a certain someone...a certain WS-winning manager with a ton of experience winning and also dealing with super ego's of superstars such as Canstrikeout, McGwire, Pullholes....
LaRussa in '08?!?
If you think Torre mismanages a bullpen, Tony LaRussa is the manager who created the 13 man pitching staff.
PeteRFNY
10-07-07, 05:42 PM
You do realize that when General George was running managers in & out of here from 1979-1995 we never won anything.
When George Steinbrenner, owner of the New York Yankees, was suspended from baseball and sitting on the sidelines the team flourished.
This statement is oft repeated, but needs to be qualified. Yes, the team was able to hold on to prospects and re-structure the way things were done within the organization, however it was George's willingness to delegate more authority to those beneath him while still willingly providing the needed $$$ to make changes when needed that made the difference.
During George's suspension, the Yankees had some of their worst years (1990-1993), albiet as part of the team's "turnaround". Since his reinstatement, the Yankees have made 12 straight trips to the post-season (and don't forget they were leading the division in 1994 when the strike happened).
If anything, George must be blamed for his heavy-handed over-management during the 1980s. From 1982-1990, there were some BAAAD teams seemingly constructed by sweaty 13-year-olds playing rotissierie baseball (despite which, many of those teams might have actually made the post-season had the Wild Card system been in place). The suspension definitely humbled the guy, and he really has not done things the same way since.
Despite what people say, the modern GS is a good owner. He just expects bang for his buck, and I can't blame him for that.
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:44 PM
And to believe that George's comments help the team are simply silly to me. They are trivial comments... if anything, they may hurt, but I'd dare say they don't do a damn thing.
To think you know how those comments will affect each player is simply silly to me.
Yankees1962
10-07-07, 05:46 PM
If you think Torre mismanages a bullpen, Tony LaRussa is the manager who created the 13 man pitching staff.
I wish LaRussa would come to the Yankees because I think some Yankee fans deserve Mr. Egomaniac.
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:46 PM
And maybe Girardi will tell the Boss to be quiet and mind his own business like he did in Florida. Or maybe he will bring Joba back out after a rain delay and injure his arm. The grass is always greener, isn't it?
Sometimes it really is greener, not all grass is the same.
I wish LaRussa would come to the Yankees because I think some Yankee fans deserve Mr. Egomaniac.
Why do you root for the Yanks?
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:48 PM
I wish LaRussa would come to the Yankees because I think some Yankee fans deserve Mr. Egomaniac.
You are such a good fan 62. Those other people deserve something bad. :D
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:51 PM
Well, at least he didn't mince words there. He really laid it out there - no ambiguity about it, unlike what you would expect him to say judging by the last few years. If we lose, Joe's gone.
A moment of lucidity piercing through the fog when maybe he thought "What the HELL is going on here! I'm paying this much for these results!? It's time for a head to roll."
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 05:53 PM
Yes there was a difference. Yogi wasn't given a fair chance to manage that team. You are telling me 16 games is enough games to evaluate a manager. However Torre was given a fair chance to manage this team and has been unsuccessful the last 6 years in winning a World Series.
I'm not talking about the circumstances. I'm talking about the end result.
Dynasties R Forever
10-07-07, 05:53 PM
Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?
There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.
Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear.
No, because I don't think one thing happening means the other things happen.
They might though, I just don't think they will.
I'm not talking about the circumstances. I'm talking about the end result.
You can't look at it that way. You have to consider the circumstances. The Yanks have given Torre 6 years to win a championship and he didn't do that. Now they are simpily think that its time for a change. Its business, it has nothing to do with loyality. He isn't performing.
PittsburghYankeeFan
10-07-07, 06:03 PM
Jeter's feeling it...
redghoast
10-07-07, 06:04 PM
:::closes Eyes:::
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Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 06:04 PM
This statement is oft repeated, but needs to be qualified. Yes, the team was able to hold on to prospects and re-structure the way things were done within the organization, however it was George's willingness to delegate more authority to those beneath him while still willingly providing the needed $$$ to make changes when needed that made the difference.
During George's suspension, the Yankees had some of their worst years (1990-1993), albiet as part of the team's "turnaround". Since his reinstatement, the Yankees have made 12 straight trips to the post-season (and don't forget they were leading the division in 1994 when the strike happened).
If anything, George must be blamed for his heavy-handed over-management during the 1980s. From 1982-1990, there were some BAAAD teams seemingly constructed by sweaty 13-year-olds playing rotissierie baseball (despite which, many of those teams might have actually made the post-season had the Wild Card system been in place). The suspension definitely humbled the guy, and he really has not done things the same way since.
Despite what people say, the modern GS is a good owner. He just expects bang for his buck, and I can't blame him for that.
George's impatience with managers is legendary. His impatience with general managers is even more legendary. His buffoonish act of berating the umpires and filing protests and submitting film to the commisioners office grew tiresome quickly with me. His story of punching a man out in an elevator in an LA hotel after the World Series in 1981 was downright embarassing. I used to cringe whenever George popped off in the newspapers.
The bottom line is it IS his team, he spends his money and can say whatever he wants. But this is not an eight part mini-series on ESPN, this is real life and until George Steinbrenner got suspended the second time he was an embarassment and one of the main reasons behind our playoff dry-spell from 1982-1995.
NYDCYankee
10-07-07, 06:06 PM
So what? who cares? just win.
"The Straw"
10-07-07, 06:16 PM
The bottom line is it IS his team, he spends his money and can say whatever he wants. But this is not an eight part mini-series on ESPN, this is real life and until George Steinbrenner got suspended the second time he was an embarassment and one of the main reasons behind our playoff dry-spell from 1982-1995.
He was also one of the main reasons we won the W.S. in 77' 78' and the guy that pulled what was a horribly mismanaged and dying franchise off the scrap heep.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 06:26 PM
He was also one of the main reasons we won the W.S. in 77' 78' and the guy that pulled what was a horribly mismanaged and dying franchise off the scrap heep.
He did pull the team off the scrap heep. He also wore out the best baseball men he had in a long time, Gabe Paul and Al Rosen. Paul, in particular pulled off the trades for Chambliss, Piniella, Nettles, Rivers and Figueroa. Those were the deals that helped us get back into the post season in 1976.
As if there was not enough pressure on Joe/Yanks to win, I just don't understand the timing of George's statement. With the way that the Yankees have recently performed in the playoffs, over the past several years, and with Joe's contract up, it was an un-necessary statement for George to make. Of course that is only my opinion.
Yankee Cowboy
10-07-07, 08:12 PM
I guess I am the only one that does not believe this story at all......I do believe it was contrived with Steinbrenners "people" whatever and whoever that is.......As far as I know George has not done a live interview in years and he has body guards that protect George from reporters that want to stick a microphone in his face. As far as know he has only released prepared statements.
O'Connor emphasized that Steinbrenner was "lucid," "clear and concise," and answered the same way he would in the past. A "rapid fire" type of question and answer.
I am a bit suspicious that all of a sudden after 2 years George has decided to speak out.....are we to believe that his state of mind has all of sudden come back....it has got to be the worst kept secret that George does not have all of his faculties
I believe that this is vintage George and that is exactly what he would have said 20 years ago......I hope that I am wrong and old George is back
When Roger came back he alluded to a certain reason that he decided to come back and if all went well (Yanks win their 27th World Championship) he might share that reason with us...... I must be the only one that thought he came back to win one for George before he passes or loses all of his faculties.
The Q Bomb
10-07-07, 09:55 PM
...The bottom line is it IS his team, he spends his money and can say whatever he wants. But this is not an eight part mini-series on ESPN, this is real life and until George Steinbrenner got suspended the second time he was an embarassment and one of the main reasons behind our playoff dry-spell from 1982-1995. Well reasoned and well put. I can't blame Steinbrenner if he wants to make a change if The Yanks don't win it all this year - but I don't know how he plans to improve upon Torre - and that would be the idea, I gather, to improve the team.
My biggest problem with Steinbrenner's statement is just that - that he made a statement. If this is how he feels, then once the season is over don't offer Torre a new contract - plain and simple. To issue this statement is demeaning; puts added pressure on a team that is already overwhelmed with pressure; and all around makes The Yanks look like a circus or "The Bronx Zoo" again.
Shame on you, Georgie. I admire your passion, your open checkbook, your commitment to winning - but your overblown ego over shadows what a great owner you are (or could be).
I know there was rumors he was going to be there tonight. Can anyone confirm he was at the game tonight? It would be interesting to know if he was and if he had a talk with Joe after the game.
Pinstripedbass
10-07-07, 10:00 PM
Well reasoned and well put. I can't blame Steinbrenner if he wants to make a change if The Yanks don't win it all this year - but I don't know how he plans to improve upon Torre - and that would be the idea, I gather, to improve the team.
My biggest problem with Steinbrenner's statement is just that - that he made a statement. If this is how he feels, then once the season is over don't offer Torre a new contract - plain and simple. To issue this statement is demeaning; puts added pressure on a team that is already overwhelmed with pressure; and all around makes The Yanks look like a circus or "The Bronx Zoo" again.
Shame on you, Georgie. I admire your passion, your open checkbook, your commitment to winning - but your overblown ego over shadows what a great owner you are (or could be).
The best owner is the one who signs the checks and stays out of the way. George could never do that. George always loved publicity. In his mind there's no such thing about bad publicity.
TheBamTino24
10-19-07, 06:31 PM
After the developments of today, and this week, I think we all know that George Steinbrenner is no longer running this team.
And to hear the underlying notion that Ian O'Connor's interview with him - when other reports haven't been able to talk to him for years - was probably staged is even a worse insult to The Boss by whomever thought that was a good idea.
It's certainly a new era.
yankeebot
10-19-07, 06:33 PM
After the developments of today, and this week, I think we all know that George Steinbrenner is no longer running this team.
And to hear the underlying notion that Ian O'Connor's interview with him - when other reports haven't been able to talk to him for years - was probably staged is even a worse insult to The Boss by whomever thought that was a good idea.
It's certainly a new era. I heard Ian on M & MD and he vehemently denies that the interview was a setup or that he had any contact with the Yankees beforehand. He has a solid rep so I tend to believe him until it's proven otherwise.
fredgmuggs
10-19-07, 06:35 PM
I heard Ian on M & MD and he vehemently denies that the interview was a setup or that he had any contact with the Yankees beforehand. He has a solid rep so I tend to believe him until it's proven otherwise.Ian didn't deny there was a possibility the interview was a set up... only that he had no part in the set up if one did indeed exist.
yankeebot
10-19-07, 07:27 PM
Ian didn't deny there was a possibility the interview was a set up... only that he had no part in the set up if one did indeed exist.
He denied any contact with anyone from the Yankees and said he called George on his own. Randy Levine on the grassy knoll? ;)
TheBamTino24
10-19-07, 10:47 PM
Ian didn't deny there was a possibility the interview was a set up... only that he had no part in the set up if one did indeed exist.
Right. Steinbrenner became very accessible very quickly. That's why, as O'Neill pointed out, this time Torre was irked by the comments despite hearing worse for 12 years from Steinbrenner himself. It was different this time because Torre knew Steinbrenner's situation. So something else was up. Something Torre couldn't reassure "The Boss" of the Yankees' 2007 progress into 2008 despite not advancing because, well, the man he sat down with in the past is now a bunch of guys who do not negotiate or discuss...well, it's a new era.
As Joe aptly put it today that George was "nudged."
Torre recognized this was a whole new ballgame. No longer would it just be him and Steinbrenner discussing the future. Now it would be a bunch of business types who were less concerned with integrity than their own agenda. Heck, George would have just fired him on Tuesday. This new era is different.
I think they did an injustice to both Joe Torre and George Steinbrenner with their behaviors.
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