View Full Version : The Bad, The Good and The Ugly..pt tres
mycroft
08-07-07, 06:50 AM
The Bad
Joba Chamberlain's quick assention into the Yankee bullpen just shows how desperate the Yankees are, desperate to find anyone other than Rivera and Visciano who can pitch. The trade of Proctor and release of Meyers were long, long over due. Of couse now the Yanks have another problem, replacing them, so they turn to a mere child in hopes of catching lightening in a bottle.
Our starting pitching isn't what I would call ugly but it is far from pretty. Wang and Pettitte are our two top pitchers yet neither have the ability to dominate. Mussina and Clemens are just about the same pitcher these days throwing in the low 90's and are a shadow of who they once were. Phil Hughes has been touted as the Yankees next ace but his velocity better increase because the low 90s won't scare anyone, including the Royals. Certainly a work in progress and in the middle of a penant race...
The Ugly
Farnsworth has stunk the place up for so long no one wants him and his bloated contract so we are stuck with him. Torre didn't even call on him in yesterday's game and left Visciano out there for 2 innings.
The Good
The offense and defense have both come around although an occasional error has to be expected and our pitchers have got to learn how to work around them, especially since we are a half game out of the wild card and 6 behind Boston. The last time I did this we trashed Cano and now he is tearing it up. Damon has certainly started to come around. Shelly Duncan has really been able to put a spark in this team. Andy Phillips has been an amazing surprise and has played far better than anyone has expected.
CONGRATS to ARod on his 500th and Matsui on his 100th.
The bottom line for the rest of the season is quite simple, we need better starts and better relief. How we will manage this appears to now rest in the hands of Joba and Phil, two children who will be asked to grow up way too fast. We need to keep it going and with our schedule starting to get tougher this team will certainly be tested.
GO ANSKY
Messerwhitescooter
08-07-07, 06:55 AM
Yankee fans are going to have to accept the fact that our middle relievers stink, and deal with it. Our team has an on base percentage of nearly .400, we have the best closer in baseball, and five superior starters. You can't have everything. I still like our chances. Torre isn't great with his maneuvers, but he does keep the offense's egotists from clashing, and his handling of A-Rod's delicate psyche has been pitch perfect. Bottom line, a little luck in this year of extreme parity is all the pinstripers need. Get used to it. middle relief= green rookies or journeymen.
Dynasties R Forever
08-07-07, 06:57 AM
The Bad
Joba Chamberlain's quick assention into the Yankee bullpen just shows how desperate the Yankees are, desperate to find anyone other than Rivera and Visciano who can pitch. The trade of Proctor and release of Meyers were long, long over due. Of couse now the Yanks have another problem, replacing them, so they turn to a mere child in hopes of catching lightening in a bottle.
Our starting pitching isn't what I would call ugly but it is far from pretty. Wang and Pettitte are our two top pitchers yet neither have the ability to dominate. Mussina and Clemens are just about the same pitcher these days throwing in the low 90's and are a shadow of who they once were. Phil Hughes has been touted as the Yankees next ace but his velocity better increase because the low 90s won't scare anyone, including the Royals. Certainly a work in progress and in the middle of a penant race...
The Ugly
Farnsworth has stunk the place up for so long no one wants him and his bloated contract so we are stuck with him. Torre didn't even call on him in yesterday's game and left Visciano out there for 2 innings.
The Good
The offense and defense have both come around although an occasional error has to be expected and our pitches have got to learn how to work around them, especially since we are a half game out of the wild card and 6 behind Boston. The last time I did this we trashed Cano and now he is tearing it up. Damon has certainly started to come around. Shelly Duncan has really been able to put a spark in this team. Andy Phillips has been an amazing surprise and has played far better than anyone has expected.
CONGRATS to ARod on his 500th and Matsui on his 100th.
The bottom line for the rest of the season is quite simple, we need better starts and better relief. How we will manage this appears to now rest in the hands of Joba and Phil, two children who will be asked to grow up way too fast. We need to keep it going and with our schedule starting to get tougher this team will certainly be tested.
GO ANSKY
Huh? Phil's stuff is ace material. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Gator's Shadow
08-07-07, 07:11 AM
Clemens, Hughes and Mussina constitute the best 3-5 starters in the game and I doubt its close, even with the erosion of skills. I think your search for "bad" goes a little far, although I would agree that one of the Yankees' weaknesses is the lack of a true "shutdown" #1 who can dominate
BronxBaumer
08-07-07, 07:15 AM
Plus our pitching staff is #6 in ERA in the AL. It may not be the best, but we're certainly in the top half.
junkman73
08-07-07, 07:20 AM
Fortunately for the Yanks you don't have to be that good to win it all...just ask the 2006 Cardinals.
They just need to find a way into the playoffs and then go from there. I would be happy with a first round exit if it means keeping all the youngsters for the future.
Our starting pitching isn't what I would call ugly but it is far from pretty. Wang and Pettitte are our two top pitchers yet neither have the ability to dominate. Mussina and Clemens are just about the same pitcher these days throwing in the low 90's and are a shadow of who they once were. Phil Hughes has been touted as the Yankees next ace but his velocity better increase because the low 90s won't scare anyone, including the Royals. Certainly a work in progress and in the middle of a penant race...
hhmmmm ... give him a chance. he's just come of the DL.
Metroidman
08-07-07, 07:31 AM
lol I love the Hughes bashing
The Guy was throwing 92/93 for 4 innings before he got tired. But now he sucks
God Some people make me want to violate the CS
lol I love the Hughes bashing
The Guy was throwing 92/93 for 4 innings before he got tired. But now he sucks
God Some people make me want to violate the CS
LOL, agreed, i'ts almost as if we're not yankee fans.
mycroft
08-07-07, 07:33 AM
Clemens, Hughes and Mussina constitute the best 3-5 starters in the game and I doubt its close, even with the erosion of skills. I think your search for "bad" goes a little far, although I would agree that one of the Yankees' weaknesses is the lack of a true "shutdown" #1 who can dominate
Absolutely, my point exactly
Metroidman
08-07-07, 07:33 AM
I kinda wonder what all these people were saying about Wang when he came off the DL throwing 89/92
I kinda wonder what all these people were saying about Wang when he came off the DL throwing 89/92
"he sucks and should be traded for jeff weaver".
:D
lol I love the Hughes bashing
The Guy was throwing 92/93 for 4 innings before he got tired. But now he sucks
God Some people make me want to violate the CS
if hughes were such a warrior why the hell did he get hurt while throwing a no hitter?
freakin wimp. :P
Metroidman
08-07-07, 07:43 AM
I wonder if its too late to trade him for Reggie Sanders
I wonder if its too late to trade him for Reggie Sanders
reggie could be exactly what all these melky doubters could be looking for.
NewEraYanks2527
08-07-07, 07:53 AM
The Good- The Melky/Cano duo who have put life into the team and seem to be getting the hits when they need to. Seriously I shudder to think where we would be without "the kids".
The Good- The Melky/Cano duo who have put life into the team and seem to be getting the hits when they need to. Seriously I shudder to think where we would be without "the kids".
bringing players through like cano and cabrera have given us so much more flexiblity. cash must be wishing he'd been allowed to run this team for the past 7 years.
phil hughes has been such a freakin disappointment.
can't wait for my fantasy football draft.
mycroft
08-07-07, 08:03 AM
Ok, guess you guys missed my point about Hughes. I never said he wasn't going to be a good pitcher or even a great pitcher at some point down the road. Coming off the dl it isn't surprising that his arm strength is down a bit. But we don't have all the time in the world anymore this year to coddle him. He has been pressed into the starting rotation in August, not April. We need starters to throw quality innings and lighten the load on our suspect bull pen...TODAY, NOW, NOT tomorrow. Putting a rookie in this position is new for Torre as he always has had veteran starters in the past.
Wiinning the world series is everything and to put Phil in this position is trial by fire.
themgmt
08-07-07, 08:08 AM
Ok, guess you guys missed my point about Hughes. I never said he wasn't going to be a good pitcher or even a great pitcher at some point down the road. Coming off the dl it isn't surprising that his arm strength is down a bit. But we don't have all the time in the world anymore this year to coddle him. He has been pressed into the starting rotation in August, not April. We need starters to throw quality innings and lighten the load on our suspect bull pen...TODAY, NOW, NOT tomorrow. Putting a rookie in this position is new for Torre as he always has had veteran starters in the past.
Wiinning the world series is everything and to put Phil in this position is trial by fire.
as opposed to our other options?
Ok, guess you guys missed my point about Hughes. I never said he wasn't going to be a good pitcher or even a great pitcher at some point down the road. Coming off the dl it isn't surprising that his arm strength is down a bit. But we don't have all the time in the world anymore this year to coddle him. He has been pressed into the starting rotation in August, not April. We need starters to throw quality innings and lighten the load on our suspect bull pen...TODAY, NOW, NOT tomorrow. Putting a rookie in this position is new for Torre as he always has had veteran starters in the past.
Wiinning the world series is everything and to put Phil in this position is trial by fire.
this last senetnce is something i both agree and disagree with.
winning the WS is the most important thing BUT not necessarily this year. i'd rather not make the playoffs if it means our team and players are healthy and prepared for the next few years.
4bronxbombers
08-07-07, 08:10 AM
Couldn't this thread have been started with "The Good...." just sayin' :)
Couldn't this thread have been started with "The Good...." just sayin' :)
i believe "the good, the bad and the ugly" has already been done before and we wouldn't want to repeat or regurgitate anything that has been said or done before.
that would be repetitive.
YankeePride1967
08-07-07, 08:12 AM
Ok, guess you guys missed my point about Hughes. I never said he wasn't going to be a good pitcher or even a great pitcher at some point down the road. Coming off the dl it isn't surprising that his arm strength is down a bit. But we don't have all the time in the world anymore this year to coddle him. He has been pressed into the starting rotation in August, not April. We need starters to throw quality innings and lighten the load on our suspect bull pen...TODAY, NOW, NOT tomorrow. Putting a rookie in this position is new for Torre as he always has had veteran starters in the past.
Wiinning the world series is everything and to put Phil in this position is trial by fire.
Yes, we are really missing the contributions of Kei Igawa.
Metroidman
08-07-07, 08:13 AM
Phil Hughes or Kei Igawa
Those are your 2 choices
Its not like we're asking Phil to be our #1 in the playoffs. Hell we're not even asking him to start in the playoffs. Just pitch better than Igawa
But if you think he cant pitch better than Igawa I guess we should send him down and bring Kei back up. KEI 4 LIFE
Yes, we are really missing the contributions of Kei Igawa.
totally. his short stints on the mound giving up 5 and 6 earned runs made the ealry part of this season so exciting. hope he makes a come back soon.
;)
themgmt
08-07-07, 08:17 AM
this last senetnce is something i both agree and disagree with.
winning the WS is the most important thing BUT not necessarily this year. i'd rather not make the playoffs if it means our team and players are healthy and prepared for the next few years.
I don't like this ideology. You can spend forever planning for tomorrow, and let today pass you by.
Unless there is a huge risk to the future, next year should not be a concern for this year's team. If we're in the mix this year, I say full speed ahead. Players aren't getting younger. Every year you have a chance to win, put your best foot forward. You don't pack your bags and think about next year. Could you even imagine another team in a different sport possibly even thinking this way for a millisecond?
mycroft
08-07-07, 08:17 AM
Igawa has no upside, a mediocre pitcher on his best day and a terrible job of scouting.
I don't like this idealogy. You can spend forever planning for tomorrow, and let today pass you by.
Unless there is a huge risk to the future, next year should not be a concern for this year's team. If we're in the mix this year, I say full speed ahead. Players aren't getting younger.
is stand by the notion that if we hadn't constantly traded away young players in search of a quick fix during the beginning of this century, we would have 27 and possibly 28 world titles already.
i recognise that we should go for it when we're in the mix but i am totally against pushing or rushing young players (and especially pitchers) when our future could be in their hands.
aeromac76
08-07-07, 08:20 AM
Clemens, Hughes and Mussina constitute the best 3-5 starters in the game and I doubt its close, even with the erosion of skills. I think your search for "bad" goes a little far, although I would agree that one of the Yankees' weaknesses is the lack of a true "shutdown" #1 who can dominate
We could be three or four Phil Hughes starts away from having that guy..
themgmt
08-07-07, 08:28 AM
is stand by the notion that if we hadn't constantly traded away young players in search of a quick fix during the beginning of this century, we would have 27 and possibly 28 world titles already.
i recognise that we should go for it when we're in the mix but i am totally against pushing or rushing young players (and especially pitchers) when our future could be in their hands.
So what world series would we have won from 2001-2006 with the help of young players, as opposed to the people we have traded for them?
2001? we had a chance to win
2003? ditto
2004? big ditto
2005/2006? we never performed.
And let's not forget the contributions of the acquisitions from the 96-2000
Where's the stud that would have changed that? Our prospects our great, but not all of them will meet their full potential or be the savior.
Metroidman
08-07-07, 08:30 AM
A Healthy Carl Pavano = 28 Rings
You heard it here first
4bronxbombers
08-07-07, 08:32 AM
Igawa has no upside, a mediocre pitcher on his best day and a terrible job of scouting.
Totally agree. I was told the scout was fired. Anyone else hear that?
Metroidman
08-07-07, 08:33 AM
Oh and on another note this is what I got
The Bad
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/04/14/98PTFonD.jpg
The Good
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/tom_verducci/09/27/baseball.mailbag/t1_wang2.jpg
The Ugly
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Sam-Cassell.article.jpg
So what world series would we have won from 2001-2006 with the help of young players, as opposed to the people we have traded for them?
2001? we had a chance to win
2003? ditto
2004? big ditto
2005/2006? we never performed.
And let's not forget the contributions of the acquisitions from the 96-2000
Where's the stud that would have changed that? Our prospects our great, but not all of them will meet their potential.
you can't go back and just say: we should have won that one or that one. it's far more subtle.
however, 2004 stands out.
if we hadn't traded guys for vasquez, and subsequently brown and therefore allowed players like johnson or juan rivera to develop we would have had more roster flexibly and more cash to pay for mid season additions.
i know vasquez was higly touted at the time but it was part of an era when we just didn't allow our young players any breathing room.
A Healthy Carl Pavano = 28 Rings
You heard it here first
kinda agreed with you. i said before the season started, that if pavano pitched well this rotation would be formidable.
then again, asking for a diamond from a bag of rocks might be too much.
4bronxbombers
08-07-07, 08:35 AM
i believe "the good, the bad and the ugly" has already been done before and we wouldn't want to repeat or regurgitate anything that has been said or done before.
that would be repetitive.
Very true....we never repeat or regurgitate and we are never repetitive on this site. ;) :P
Very true....we never repeat or regurgitate and we are never repetitive on this site. ;) :P
exactly. nyyfans.com is the place of daily original insight and musings that open a new hole into the world of baseball.
a joint nobel prize should be around the corner.
;)
4bronxbombers
08-07-07, 08:38 AM
exactly. nyyfans.com is the place of daily original insight and musings that open a new hole into the world of baseball.
a joint nobel prize should be around the corner.
;)
:lol:
themgmt
08-07-07, 08:40 AM
you can't go back and just say: we should have won that one or that one. it's far more subtle.
Right, but you were the one that said we would have won 2 more WS in the last 6 years if we didn't trade any young players for vets, not me. I don't see it holding any weight because that isn't really the downfall of the past 6 years at all. Now if we were to trade away Cano, Melky, Hughes, Wang, Chamberlain tomorrow, and struggle to perform the next 5 years, then you would have an argument. But this team has had success and the opportunities to win.
Right, but you were the one that said we would have won 2 more WS in the last 6 years if we didn't trade any young players for vets, not me. I don't see it holding any weight because that isn't really the downfall of the past 6 years at all. Now if we were to trade away Cano, Melky, Hughes, Wang, Chamberlain tomorrow, and struggle to perform the next 5 years, then you would have an argument. But this team has had success and the opportunities to win.
i said we would have won 1 or 2 not specifically pointing to a year.
i appreciate that we were always in contension but i do feel if these players would have been allowed to develop the club would have been in a better place at times, therefore allowing us to be more stable and increase our changes of winning it all.
i can't prove it because my name isn't aubrey niffenegger but you can not deny that the 90s success was built on home grown players and the 80s drought was built on free agents and big trades.
mycroft
08-08-07, 08:57 AM
And speaking of UGLY
When is Posada going to learn how to run the bases????
And speaking of UGLY
When is Posada going to learn how to run the bases????
do you think his ugliness slows him down?
:D
Visciano sounds like somebody from the godfather
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