View Full Version : Expectations On Hughes and Chamberlain
The Q Bomb
07-31-07, 04:41 PM
I am amazed at how much import Yankee fans (and some media) are putting on the return of Phil Hughes and the impending call-up of Chamberlain. These guys are babies. Yes, Hughes had some success before he got injured but we're talking TWO (or was it three) starts!
Chamberlain is even younger; is in a new environment (MLB); with new teammates; and most importantly in a new role - relief pitcher. What makes anyone think this (poor) kid can come in and save the team - especially in such a pressure role?
Mussina, Pettitte, Clemens (although he has tried), among others, with all their talent, experience, and I would hope hunger, haven't been able to propel this tease of a baseball club (using Phil Allard's description) into a real run. (It's almost like the players have reservations on a cruise leaving port on October 3rd. As soon as they go on a run - someone reminds them they will lose their deposits if they get in the playoffs!)
I don't want The Yanks to give up on the season - but I would hope that if this team makes a run it's with the concerted efforts of veteran players who should be embarassed at the record their team has; and are embarrassed at the thought of not making the playoffs with the salaries they are paid and the fan support they receive.
Expecting two minor league pitchers to facilitate that miracle is a bit much.
dabomb2045
07-31-07, 04:44 PM
I really believe Chamberlain could be to this team the last 2 months what KRod was to the 2002 Angels. He has the kind of stuff. He wont be used in the 8th inning right anyways unless he is so dominant that the Yanks have to move him there. He isnt a savior, just someone that can help us. And I have no doubts that Hughes will be fine.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-31-07, 04:45 PM
Well lets see, both have dominated the minors. Both have been praised for their remarkable mental make up, both are considered MLB ready by the organization.
Hughes had a no hitter going into the 7th in his second MLB start ever. Joba k'ed the side in his AAA bullpen debut and touched 100 MPH twice while being in the high 90s the rest.
Also the league hasnt seen them, that should work to their advantage, especially joba who is only coming in for 3 outs and throws 100 MPH
TheManKnownAsMecca
07-31-07, 04:45 PM
If Hughes can't handle the pressure of being our fifth starter I'd be shocked. He knows he is supposed to become the ace in two years time, so expecting him to be our fifth starter shouldn't weigh too heavily on his mind IMO.
I think Chamberlain will be nervous but we aren't exactly asking him to be our set-up man or closer. Being our 6th or 7th inning guy isn't nearly as pressure packed.
Big Game Andy
07-31-07, 04:46 PM
Expecting two minor league pitchers to facilitate that miracle is a bit much.
It isn't a miracle - Joba and Hughes aren't going to be asked to do more than they are capable of. They are being asked to perform up to their capabilties. If they perform up to their capabilties, we'll be just fine.
We have two kids here that have top notch stuff and makeup with a top-notch performance record. We aren't talking about some scrubs here.
BxBomber44
07-31-07, 04:47 PM
Hughes to be a g.
Joba to do better than Proctor in the pen...and then dominate in future.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-31-07, 04:48 PM
And these arent 2 guys with just good stuff. From all reports they have good control, great make up, and pitching knowledge.
The only real thing that could set them back is injuries(especially in Joba's case)
ballfour
07-31-07, 04:48 PM
It isn't a miracle - Joba and Hughes aren't going to be asked to do more than they are capable of. They are being asked to perform up to their capabilties. If they perform up to their capabilties, we'll be just fine.
We have two kids here that have top notch stuff and makeup with a top-notch performance record. We aren't talking about some scrubs here.
Spot on. I don't know anyone who is pining this season on Hughes and Joba, whether in the media or the fan base. And if there are, they are certainly the minority.
South Facing Epitaph
07-31-07, 04:49 PM
A miracle? The Yankees are 4 (FOUR) games out of the wild card. I don't understand why everyone here is on suicide watch. Because the Yankees dumped a run-of-the-mill reliever? :uhh:
With Igawa being replaced by a superior starter in Hughes, Giambi's eventual return (not to mention the fact that a combination of Joba, Ramirez and Britton will only improve the pen), Cashman had the luxury of improving the team internally rather than shipping off key prospects for rental relievers.
teknetic
07-31-07, 04:50 PM
One is being asked to be the #5 starter the other is being asked to come in from the pen where he can let it all out for a few innings. They're replacing Kei Igawa and Scott Proctor, what pressure is there?
Having Rocket and Moose to possibly help teach these guys anything they can is worth it's weight in gold.
surge511
07-31-07, 04:54 PM
I expect Joba and Hughes to be very good, despite their age. They have both proved to be dominating at every level, and Hughes has already put in one amazing start in the bigs. They will both be fine, assuming they stay away from injuries.
Chamberlain is not younger. He is 8 months older than Hughes.
hellonewman
07-31-07, 04:58 PM
Expecting two minor league pitchers to facilitate that miracle is a bit much.It will not be any kind of miracle to make up 4 games on the still-closerless Cleveland Indians who have jalopies like Jake Westbrook and Paul Byrd in the mid- to back of their rotation. (To be fair, Byrd has pitched creditably this year, but I'd hate to have to count on him down the stretch.)
Hughes has to improve on Igawa's performance (should be a snap), and it would be nice, though not absolutely necessary, for Chamberlain to improve on Proctor's performance (a little trickier but certainly doable). That's all.
Tobe Namelater
07-31-07, 05:05 PM
I think what everyone fails to realize is that they are not really finished products. Great stuff, but rookies don't have consistency. Rookies will make mistakes. What you will have is a dominating 2 hit shutout followed by giving up 7 runs in 3 inns next time out. The stuff is there and yes if they perform up to their abilities they will be great. But the catch is they will not be great almost all the time for another 2-3 years.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-31-07, 05:09 PM
I think what everyone fails to realize is that they are not really finished products. Great stuff, but rookies don't have consistency. Rookies will make mistakes. What you will have is a dominating 2 hit shutout followed by giving up 7 runs in 3 inns next time out. The stuff is there and yes if they perform up to their abilities they will be great. But the catch is they will not be great almost all the time for another 2-3 years.
What about Jered Weaver? Came up last year and flat out dominated. He is doing pretty well this year as well. I think both Hughes and Joba are better than him. They will both be helped by the fact that the league hasnt seen them before. These arent 2 guys that just have the stuff. They also have good control of that stuff and pitching knowledge as well.
Sean Ryan
07-31-07, 05:10 PM
I'm wondering if someone can give me a scouting report on Alan Horne. I know this isn't the right place for this but it would be much appreciated.
TheManKnownAsMecca
07-31-07, 05:11 PM
I think what everyone fails to realize is that they are not really finished products. Great stuff, but rookies don't have consistency. Rookies will make mistakes. What you will have is a dominating 2 hit shutout followed by giving up 7 runs in 3 inns next time out. The stuff is there and yes if they perform up to their abilities they will be great. But the catch is they will not be great almost all the time for another 2-3 years.
Please answer this: How hard is it to replace Kei Igawa currently?
Also, Chamberlain is not being asked to be a closer or set-up man. He may have a rough outing here and there but it is not an impossible task to spread around Proctor's innings (although Torre may disagree).
teknetic
07-31-07, 05:13 PM
It will not be any kind of miracle to make up 4 games on the still-closerless Cleveland Indians who have jalopies like Jake Westbrook and Paul Byrd in the mid- to back of their rotation. (To be fair, Byrd has pitched creditably this year, but I'd hate to have to count on him down the stretch.)
Hughes has to improve on Igawa's performance (should be a snap), and it would be nice, though not absolutely necessary, for Chamberlain to improve on Proctor's performance (a little trickier but certainly doable). That's all.
Cliff Lee is probably the biggest jalopie of them all ;)
Yankeesfan811
07-31-07, 05:20 PM
I really believe Chamberlain could be to this team the last 2 months what KRod was to the 2002 Angels. He has the kind of stuff. He wont be used in the 8th inning right anyways unless he is so dominant that the Yanks have to move him there. He isnt a savior, just someone that can help us. And I have no doubts that Hughes will be fine.
yeah I agree. any upgrade over Farnzy/Igawa is going to help this team.
hellonewman
07-31-07, 05:23 PM
Cliff Lee is probably the biggest jalopie of them all ;)I believe that particular jalopy has been consigned to the repair shop (Triple A), hasn't he?
The Q Bomb
07-31-07, 06:30 PM
What about Jered Weaver? Came up last year and flat out dominated... The thing is Weaver wasn't expected to be a "savior", so to speak. I have every reason to believe that these "kids" will perform well this year and will be good to great in the future but this Yankee thing of putting the weight of the world in expectations on players, young kids or veterans acquired in a trade or through free agency usually seems to play havoc with the one upon whose shoulders they are placed.
Tobe Namelater
07-31-07, 06:38 PM
What about Jered Weaver? Came up last year and flat out dominated. He is doing pretty well this year as well. I think both Hughes and Joba are better than him. They will both be helped by the fact that the league hasnt seen them before. These arent 2 guys that just have the stuff. They also have good control of that stuff and pitching knowledge as well.
Yeah for every Jered Weaver, there is a Garza, Lincecum, Hamels, Cain, Bailey, and a ton more that I forget. That have great stuff but also got lit a bunch of times. It is uncommon to succeed so easily and rattle off a ton of victories. It is unfair to expect rookies to already have mastered it. A 98 mph fastball is not enough.
Let's be pleasantly surprised. Besides we don't need then finish the regular season 10-0, we just need them to do a fair job better than what Igawa or Proctor did.
What is irks me is the irrationality and homerism. We got enough to do the job.
Well lets see, both have dominated the minors. Both have been praised for their remarkable mental make up, both are considered MLB ready by the organization.
Hughes had a no hitter going into the 7th in his second MLB start ever. Joba k'ed the side in his AAA bullpen debut and touched 100 MPH twice while being in the high 90s the rest.
Also the league hasnt seen them, that should work to their advantage, especially joba who is only coming in for 3 outs and throws 100 MPHDon't we already have a guy that throws 98+ and throws only 3 outs? I think he pitches in the 8th inning?
I think Hughes has proven he can be a solid 1/2/3 in our rotation and I'm disappointed Chamberlain will not have the opportunity to start but I'm glad hes going to face MLB hitters. I think the whole idea about a new environment and new teammates is minor, didn't he experience that in AAA anyways? I don't think its a big deal, just a thing the media likes to discuss.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-31-07, 08:41 PM
Don't we already have a guy that throws 98+ and throws only 3 outs? I think he pitches in the 8th inning?
I think Hughes has proven he can be a solid 1/2/3 in our rotation and I'm disappointed Chamberlain will not have the opportunity to start but I'm glad hes going to face MLB hitters. I think the whole idea about a new environment and new teammates is minor, didn't he experience that in AAA anyways? I don't think its a big deal, just a thing the media likes to discuss.
Chamberlain has mlb quality secondary stuff, not an inconsistant slider...oh yeah joba throws strikes too...that helps
YankeeStripes
07-31-07, 08:52 PM
I think Hughes will do OK when he comes back...I dont see him going 8-1 or something. He'll probably pitch to a 3.50 ERA or so.
As for Chamberlain, he actually could be dominant in a short roll, but I was hoping to see him get a start.
WeekendWarrior
07-31-07, 08:59 PM
I think Hughes will do OK when he comes back...I dont see him going 8-1 or something. He'll probably pitch to a 3.50 ERA or so.
As for Chamberlain, he actually could be dominant in a short roll, but I was hoping to see him get a start.
I think that is really unrealistic in regards to Hughes. I fully expect him to pitch to an era better than 4.2 but not 3.5. 3.5 is an era that wins an al cy young. Think about how much better 4.2 is than 7+ that Igawa gave us so obviously i still feel that he is a huge improvement. I agree that he will be a large upgrade, i just don't expect him to be one of the best pitchers in the al.
As far as chamberlain goes, he has all the stuff to be an absolutely dominating reliever, maybe future dominant closer (if that is the rout the yankees wanted him to take) however for this stretch run, I believe it comes down to how well he responds to pressure, and to be honest, that is an unquantifiable characteristic that we will just have to wait and see about.
Either way, it should make for a very fun dog days of summer.
teknetic
07-31-07, 09:00 PM
Don't we already have a guy that throws 98+ and throws only 3 outs? I think he pitches in the 8th inning?
I think Hughes has proven he can be a solid 1/2/3 in our rotation and I'm disappointed Chamberlain will not have the opportunity to start but I'm glad hes going to face MLB hitters. I think the whole idea about a new environment and new teammates is minor, didn't he experience that in AAA anyways? I don't think its a big deal, just a thing the media likes to discuss.
Except, Farns' fastball has zero movement, usually zero location, and his slider is inconsistant as you can get. Joba has better stuff.
Chamberlain has mlb quality secondary stuff, not an inconsistant slider...oh yeah joba throws strikes too...that helpsOh I agree, I was just making a comment, because the description of what Chamberlain brought to the bullpen was everything Farnsworth brings :D
primetime714
07-31-07, 09:07 PM
Joba has two plus pitches and can hit 100 on the gun. With decent control that translates into a dominant reliever at least 9 times out of 10.
Hughes had a no hitter going in the 7th in his 2nd start. He has dominated every level of the minors and was easily the top pitching prospect in baseball (not considered a prospect anymore). He is making an absolute mockery of AAA batters. Theres no reason to think he won't be at least a solid starter for us and a HUGE upgrade over Igawa and anyone else that has been in that slot this year.
While we didn't pick up much at the deadline we're going to get a big boost from Hughes, Joba, and Giambi. You could easily make an argument that when these three return that no team is more improved talent wise except maybe the Braves.
CTyankeefan
07-31-07, 09:10 PM
there somes a point in time that you have to let your minor league work for you. Hughes is MLB caliber right now. Learning curve? Yes. But he isn't overmatched. If this was any other team in baseball Hughes and Chamberlain would have been up much earlier.
Hughes would have started year in majors and Chamberlain would have been up in June. No more babying players. cano, Wang, Melky proved that all you need is a chance to make a difference.
these guys have the talent and ability. It is wasted in Triple A. Enough with the kid gloves.
They will both be great for us.
BRNXBMRS
08-01-07, 07:43 AM
High risk high reward.
themgmt
08-01-07, 07:52 AM
not expecting too too much. just that the two of them never give up a run.
i would like hughes to return and give us 6 innings every start.
i would like joba to stay in the scranton rotation.
Born in the Bronx
08-01-07, 08:05 AM
And these arent 2 guys with just good stuff. From all reports they have good control, great make up, and pitching knowledge.
The only real thing that could set them back is injuries(especially in Joba's case)
Plus, Joba's an Indian!
Plus, Joba's an Indian!
that is without doubt the sole reason why he wasn't traded to texas.
all those cowboys!
bxbomber328
08-01-07, 08:15 AM
He's a Native American. India is a whole nother country.
He's a Native American. India is a whole nother country.
really? no way, where is it? somewhere near miami?
JavyVazquezIsSick
08-01-07, 08:36 AM
ERA+ of 494 and 322 respectively during their prime years.
Born in the Bronx
08-01-07, 09:07 AM
He's a Native American. India is a whole nother country.
When I was a kid, I loved playing cowboys and native americans!
When I was a kid, I loved playing cowboys and native americans!
who were you normally? a cowboy or a native american?
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