View Full Version : Kennedy and Chamberlain, when will they be in the Bronx?
Hughes2.50
06-04-07, 09:26 AM
With the promotion to AA of Ian Kennedy, first round pick of the Yankees in 2006, and the continued brilliance of Joba Chamberlain in A+ ball, how long will it be before these two polished ex-college All America pitchers get into a Yankees uniform.<p>Using my MDERA statistic to evaluate how well they are pitching in the minors this year, we find that Kennedy is posting a 103 while Chamberlain a 135 MDERA for 2007 so far.<p>That is, like Pecota's PERA statistic, my MDERA is designed to estimate a major league equivalent performance for minor league pitchers. MDERA is cast to reflect a standardized major league average ERA of 4.50 (Just as Pecota's PERA does as well). And, MDERA is presented in the familiar ERA+ format which allows for simple statistical comparisons between pitchers.<p>Therefore, a 103 MDERA represents a slightly above average major league equivalent performance, while a 136 would be significantly better. Looking more closely at the numbers, the biggest difference between Kennedy and Chamberlain is that Kennedy has allowed two dingers, while Chamberlain none.<p>Since both Kennedy and Chamberlain are experienced pitchers from big programs, who have logged considerable innings over the last several years in college (making a ramp up in their innings somewhat inconsequential to Yankee development concerns), when do you think that one or the other will be promoted to pitch in New York?
Yankees1962
06-04-07, 09:31 AM
Hard to predict due to so many different factors, but we won't see Kennedy until at next year some time. Chamberlain could possibly be next year, but more likely the year after. Then again, maybe one of them is gone next month which is another unknown factor, who will be part of trades which could affect their future as ML Yankees.
YankeePride1967
06-04-07, 09:36 AM
I saw Kennedy live here in Florida a few weeks ago when Tampa came to Jupiter and he looked great. I'm going to see Chamberlain this week when they come back to play the Cardinals here. He is alligned to pitch Thursday.
b_joseph
06-04-07, 09:45 AM
I'll be very surprised if both guys arent very likely contenders to be in the rotation to start 2009.
Hard to predict due to so many different factors, but we won't see Kennedy until at next year some time. Chamberlain could possibly be next year, but more likely the year after. Then again, maybe one of them is gone next month which is another unknown factor, who will be part of trades which could affect their future as ML Yankees.
I see Kennedy as one of the guys who may get some starts in teh Bronx in 2008 if there are injury concerns, like this year. In addition, he would also have to be pitching well for AA or AAA, depending where he is at the time.
Joba, I doubt he gets anywhere near the Bronx in 2008. But I bet he challenges for a rotation spot in ST of 2009.
Remember, after 2008, the rotation will be cleaned up from everyone currently in there, except for Wang. So guys like Hughes, Clippard, Kennedy, Joba, Igawa, et al, will all be fighting for spots. There should be no Petitte's, Mussina's, Clemens, Pavano's. et al, in the way.
MinorFan
06-04-07, 11:29 AM
.....
Somebody will be in the way. There is no way the Yankees go into 2009 with Wang, Hughes and then 3 of the rest.
Big Game Andy
06-04-07, 11:52 AM
In 2009 there will be some big changes in Yankee land. Our pitching staff, the Old Man Faction, of Mussina Clemens and Pettitte will all finally be gone. We've had rotation or some variation of it for close to 10 years, and it'll finally be over and we can finally turn the page and integrate some youngsters into the starting rotation. It's definitely exciting. We'll have to deal with one more year of a substandard, old, patchwork rotation and then we can finally turn the page on the late 1990s dynasty years and start a new dynasty that's centered around good, young, cost effective starting pitching.
In Mo I Trust
06-04-07, 11:57 AM
Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Johan, make it happen in 2009.
MTYankee23
06-04-07, 12:19 PM
How are we expected to acquire Johan Santana without giving up Hughes, Kennedy, OR Chamberlain?
Something tells me that Marquez, Clippard, and Betances isn't going to get it done.
metalboy15
06-04-07, 12:43 PM
How are we expected to acquire Johan Santana without giving up Hughes, Kennedy, OR Chamberlain?
Something tells me that Marquez, Clippard, and Betances isn't going to get it done.
He´s a FA after the 08 season.
BringBackRandolph
06-04-07, 12:52 PM
Hard to predict due to so many different factors, but we won't see Kennedy until at next year some time. Chamberlain could possibly be next year, but more likely the year after. Then again, maybe one of them is gone next month which is another unknown factor, who will be part of trades which could affect their future as ML Yankees.
Neither guy can be traded until after at least 1 year after they signed. The only way to get around something like that is what Oakland and Detroit did with regards to Bonderman and that was having it agreed on that he would be the player to be named.
MTYankee23
06-04-07, 12:55 PM
He´s a FA after the 08 season.
Was a response to whoever wrote that it would happen next year (unless they meant the '08 offseason). Unless Minnesota is contending at the deadline next year, I'm guessing you'll see some sort of trade and extend with Santana.
2008, knock wood. I expect both to do well in AA this summer.
GrouchoNYY
06-04-07, 02:18 PM
The thing that is the X-Factor here is the new Yankee Stadium, due to open in 2009. I seriously doubt that the Yankees will go into a new park without a a team primed to win it all. An all young homegrown staff may be nice but there will be the pull to get a horse. If Santana is available as a free agent, that's a possibility. If not, a trade for a supposed stud starter (and maybe a closer) is likely. Only if the young guys light it up in 2008 will there be a possibility of an all young staff in 2009.
Hitting is another story. Other than Tabata, there is noboby evident for 2009(maybe Cervelli). Free agency may be easier here but don't discount trading pitching for young proven power.
Yanks21
06-04-07, 02:30 PM
September.
Agreed. I think both have a shot to be September call-ups...
Gator's Shadow
06-04-07, 02:38 PM
I seriously doubt that the Yankees will go into a new park without a a team primed to win it all.
I'm not sure there is a connection between the two. The new statdium will have its luxury boxes sold out and will do tremendous season ticket sales in any event. It would take several years of bad Yankee teams for the attendance and fan interest to drop enough to hit ownership in the pocketbook.
wang+cano=future
06-04-07, 03:19 PM
It seems that both are on the track of finishing the year at AA (unless they completly dominate AA). Hughes dominated A+ and was moved up to AA around the same time last year, where he finished the season. It would be awesome if they both have the same success that Hughes had at AA but it seems unlikely because Hughes is soooo nasty. I could see them finish AA this year and start in AAA next year with call-ups based on needs of the team or performance during the 2009 season.
The thing that is the X-Factor here is the new Yankee Stadium, due to open in 2009. I seriously doubt that the Yankees will go into a new park without a a team primed to win it all. An all young homegrown staff may be nice but there will be the pull to get a horse. If Santana is available as a free agent, that's a possibility. If not, a trade for a supposed stud starter (and maybe a closer) is likely. Only if the young guys light it up in 2008 will there be a possibility of an all young staff in 2009.
Wang will be heading into his 5th season at that time, and hopefully Hughes his 3rd, and 2nd full. It's not like they will all be the 2006 Florida Marlins pitching staff.
Stealthspy
06-04-07, 03:43 PM
It seems that both are on the track of finishing the year at AA (unless they completly dominate AA). Hughes dominated A+ and was moved up to AA around the same time last year, where he finished the season. It would be awesome if they both have the same success that Hughes had at AA but it seems unlikely because Hughes is soooo nasty. I could see them finish AA this year and start in AAA next year with call-ups based on needs of the team or performance during the 2009 season.Well Hughes was a prospect in his teens coming out of High School. As previously mentioned, these are two college pitchers, coming out of good programs which makes them more polished and have more innings under their arms. They could have the same success, and I almost expect them to put up good numbers. That said, I'm thinking that unles they absolutely dominate, they are going to stay in AA, with a call up to the ML being a real slim possibility. Either way they're both getting a minimum of 2 months down in trenton.
Stealthspy
06-04-07, 03:45 PM
The thing that is the X-Factor here is the new Yankee Stadium, due to open in 2009. I seriously doubt that the Yankees will go into a new park without a a team primed to win it all. An all young homegrown staff may be nice but there will be the pull to get a horse. If Santana is available as a free agent, that's a possibility. If not, a trade for a supposed stud starter (and maybe a closer) is likely. Only if the young guys light it up in 2008 will there be a possibility of an all young staff in 2009.
Hitting is another story. Other than Tabata, there is noboby evident for 2009(maybe Cervelli). Free agency may be easier here but don't discount trading pitching for young proven power.The other X-Factor, in my opinion, is the 2007 season. If we don't finish well then Cashman may be gone. And judging by George and the visible success of Cashman's plan (so far) in the 2007 team, I wouldn't be surprised if the next GM burns the farm.
And this is why I really, really hope this team does well.
GoRasner
06-04-07, 04:17 PM
Probably late 2008, early 2009. Kennedy could get a start late this year if he's lucky.
Yankees1962
06-04-07, 05:05 PM
Neither guy can be traded until after at least 1 year after they signed. The only way to get around something like that is what Oakland and Detroit did with regards to Bonderman and that was having it agreed on that he would be the player to be named.
Yes I know, since, both signed late this might save them this trading season.
yank4life2005
06-04-07, 05:50 PM
I think we might see one of them traded in a package for Texeira.
Don't WANT to see it happen but I think it will.
Hughes2.50
06-04-07, 06:08 PM
I think we might see one of them traded in a package for Texeira.
Don't WANT to see it happen but I think it will.If it does happen, which one would you protect from the trade and which one would you be willling to use as a trade chip?
If it does happen, which one would you protect from the trade and which one would you be willling to use as a trade chip?
I think that is a pretty simple answer.
Yankees1962
06-04-07, 06:30 PM
I think we might see one of them traded in a package for Texeira.
Don't WANT to see it happen but I think it will.
I don't see Cashman making a trade for Tex because of two reasons. First off, he would have to give up a lot for him and secondly, he will still test the free agent market and I don't see Cashman paying a high price for a rental player.
yank4life2005
06-04-07, 08:11 PM
If it does happen, which one would you protect from the trade and which one would you be willling to use as a trade chip?
I would hold onto Chamberlain for dear life.
Kennedy could be a nice chip to trade.
yank4life2005
06-04-07, 08:11 PM
I don't see Cashman making a trade for Tex because of two reasons. First off, he would have to give up a lot for him and secondly, he will still test the free agent market and I don't see Cashman paying a high price for a rental player.
Tex isn't a FA until after the 2008 season.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-04-07, 08:55 PM
08 at some point. 07 is a slim slim possibility, I honestly don't think 09 is.
yankeetke
06-05-07, 10:11 PM
Most likely 2008 unless we continue to tank the season and decide we want to see how some of our young pitchers do in the majors but there are some people ahead of them like Alan Horne and a crowded 40 man roster that also hurts them. So I think we see them sometime in 2008 as injury replacements like Hughes, Clippard, Wright and Desalvo.
stupidpunchline
06-06-07, 07:42 AM
Why waste one of their option years on 2007?
Hughes2.50
06-06-07, 07:57 AM
How are we expected to acquire Johan Santana without giving up Hughes, Kennedy, OR Chamberlain?
Something tells me that Marquez, Clippard, and Betances isn't going to get it done.I think your options should read, Marquez, Clippard, and Kennedy, instead of Hughes, Betances, OR Chamberlain.
JeffWeaverFan
06-06-07, 08:04 AM
If both dominate AA, they can both start next season in AAA and get a callup sometime next year.
WeekendWarrior
06-06-07, 09:27 AM
Is Joba going today for Tampa?
Is Joba going today for Tampa?
AFAIK, his turn is tomorrow in Jupiter vs. the Cards.
yankeezombie
06-06-07, 03:17 PM
The other X-Factor, in my opinion, is the 2007 season. If we don't finish well then Cashman may be gone. And judging by George and the visible success of Cashman's plan (so far) in the 2007 team, I wouldn't be surprised if the next GM burns the farm.
And this is why I really, really hope this team does well.
That's my biggest worry about this year. We've seen that before so PLEASE not again.
I think your options should read, Marquez, Clippard, and Kennedy, instead of Hughes, Betances, OR Chamberlain.
I agree. Hughes, Betances, and Chamberlain are off limits.
MTYankee23
06-06-07, 03:31 PM
I agree. Hughes, Betances, and Chamberlain are off limits.
I tend to agree as well (even though I'm the original quotee), Betances would just be the least off limits of the untouchables, if that makes any sense. Personally, I'd rather keep those 3 even if it means no deal gets done.
NY_GOLDENARMS
06-06-07, 04:37 PM
I tend to agree as well (even though I'm the original quotee), Betances would just be the least off limits of the untouchables, if that makes any sense. Personally, I'd rather keep those 3 even if it means no deal gets done.
I kinda like that, it has certain intimidating ring to it:
HUGHES, CHAMBERLIN and BETANCES - THE UNTOUCHABLES ;)
Ivan Nova coming soon to a ballpark near you.
primetime714
06-08-07, 02:13 PM
Kennedy is essentially Clippard one year ago. Next year Kennedy is among the first couple guys that are brought up if one of our starters gets hurt or struggles.
Joba seems like a guy that we won't call up until septemeber of next year. However he could find himself in a similar position to Hughes and get a callup as early as mid season of next year. If he continues to dominate as he moves up the system he could jump ahead of schedule and possibly get himself ahead of Kennedy who right now is more polished but lower ceiling player.
One guy who could stand in their way is Humberto Sanchez depending upon how his rehab from TJ surgery progresses. By my estimates Sanchez's injury set him back about a year and half. With all the injuries we've had this is a guy that would've been up already had he been healthy. Now he's probably looking at having to compete with guys like Kennedy and Chamberlain for injury call up spots next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees play it safe with Sanchez and push him back to september callup next year with a shot at an 09' rotation or bullpen spot.
Of the 3 I think Kennedy is the first called up and will almost definitely be up sometime next year.
DontHateOnNumber2
06-08-07, 03:12 PM
I can't imagine Joba contending for a spot anytime before 2009, but Kennedy will probably be a September call up next year. Barring injuries of course.
Hughes2.50
06-08-07, 07:04 PM
I can't imagine Joba contending for a spot anytime before 2009, but Kennedy will probably be a September call up next year. Barring injuries of course.With Joba Chamberlain's MDERA currently 153 and Ian Kennedy currently south of 100, that would be a travesty of justice, and recipe for failure. Joba Chamberlain, notwithstanding Kennedy's promotion, is significantly more effective pitching this year than is Kennedy.<p>And, that was so before Kennedy's last game.
Hughes2.50
06-08-07, 07:10 PM
Kennedy is essentially Clippard one year ago. Next year Kennedy is among the first couple guys that are brought up if one of our starters gets hurt or struggles.
Joba seems like a guy that we won't call up until septemeber of next year. However he could find himself in a similar position to Hughes and get a callup as early as mid season of next year. If he continues to dominate as he moves up the system he could jump ahead of schedule and possibly get himself ahead of Kennedy who right now is more polished but lower ceiling player.
One guy who could stand in their way is Humberto Sanchez depending upon how his rehab from TJ surgery progresses. By my estimates Sanchez's injury set him back about a year and half. With all the injuries we've had this is a guy that would've been up already had he been healthy. Now he's probably looking at having to compete with guys like Kennedy and Chamberlain for injury call up spots next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees play it safe with Sanchez and push him back to september callup next year with a shot at an 09' rotation or bullpen spot.
Of the 3 I think Kennedy is the first called up and will almost definitely be up sometime next year.Humberto Sanchez won't be pitching until after July 1st next year. My guess is that the Yankees will try to get him innings in Winter Ball 2008/09, and will begin to build his arm strength in 2009. Don't expect to see Sanchez in the majors until mid 2009 at the earliest.<p>Interestingly, if Andrew Brackman needs TJ surgery, I hope it gets done soon so that he would be able to pitch in fall ball 08/09 too.
dont_ya_know24
06-11-07, 08:24 PM
Hughes
Chamberlain
Wang
Kennedy
Betances
nice...
Hughes2.50
06-11-07, 10:41 PM
Hughes
Chamberlain
Wang
Kennedy
Betances
nice...Presumably the above refers to the 2009 Yankee rotation. Based on what I know now, I'd be very dissapointed to find out that Alan Horne was passed over for Ian Kennedy for the 2009 Yankee rotation.
flymick24
06-11-07, 10:55 PM
i think both horne and kennedy are trade bait (unfortunately)
Lot of shaking out to do over the next few years.
I doubt Horn and Kennedy are trade bait. While they may be traded at some point, that's not their true value.
Clippard, Ohlendorf, possibly Sanchez if we don't pen him, Chase Wright, etc are the kind of guys we can package off. And in reality with the pitching we develop, the Yankees don't need much through trades anymore.
Presumably the above refers to the 2009 Yankee rotation. Based on what I know now, I'd be very dissapointed to find out that Alan Horne was passed over for Ian Kennedy for the 2009 Yankee rotation.
Me too. Horne's stuff is one of the best in the system.
Eh, whoever pitches the best. I'm not overly concerned. All of these guys will get sorted out through their performance.
scooterfan
06-12-07, 12:34 PM
Eh, whoever pitches the best. I'm not overly concerned. All of these guys will get sorted out through their performance.
I agree... but say you do need to trade a pitching prospect for a first baseman, a backup catcher, or pen help. Who do you trade?
The factors are clear - stuff, command, soundness of mechanics, knowing how to pitch, injury history, age, performance
Until a guy pitches in the majors, you really don't 'know' what you have. And even then, you can't judge a guy off 3 starts (Clippard).
Your degree of 'not knowing' goes up the further down in the minors he is.
If we're thinking about trading Horne (for example), it really behooves us to get him to AAA. (You can even argue it's worth giving Horne a start in the majors - the Claussen treatment, if you will)
Look back to the 90s - it's about keeping Mo and Pettitte, and trading Sterling Hitchcock
wang+cano=future
06-12-07, 12:43 PM
Hughes
Chamberlain
Wang
Kennedy
Betances
nice...
Hughes
Wang
Joba
Betances
Brackman
I think that would be the ideal rotation if all can stay healthy and reach their potentials. That leaves guys like Kennedy, Clipp, Ohlendorf, Horne, Marquez, Nova and many others as the odd men out.
jerez23
06-12-07, 12:45 PM
i think both horne and kennedy are trade bait (unfortunately)
That's my fear too. :(
That's my fear too. :(
With all the high-ceiling pitching depth the Yankees have at every level, it's inevitable that some arms will wind up elsewhere. The real danger is trading the wrong ones. Back in 1990, the Red Sox thought one of their two 3rd base prospects had a higher ceiling than the other, so they kept him (Scott Cooper) and traded the other one (Jeff Bagwell) for some 2nd half relief help. They picked the wrong one and it probably cost them a hundred wins over the next 13 or 14 years.
Trading prospects is always a scary proposition, but it's going to happen. You just have to hope it's done right.
Kulish29
06-12-07, 01:23 PM
i think both horne and kennedy are trade bait (unfortunately)
I dont anticipate that at all. Given the way this rotation has gone through it's injury problems, I dont see the Yankees trading either of them unless it's a deal they cant refuse. (i.e. Miguel Cabrera)
It's clear, to me at least, that Cashman & Co. are wanting to go with youth in the rotation and elsewhere on the field. With the way Horne and Kennedy have been pitching, they're simply too valuable to trade because of the unreliability of the old guys in the rotation.
Kulish29
06-12-07, 01:25 PM
With all the high-ceiling pitching depth the Yankees have at every level, it's inevitable that some arms will wind up elsewhere. The real danger is trading the wrong ones. Back in 1990, the Red Sox thought one of their two 3rd base prospects had a higher ceiling than the other, so they kept him (Scott Cooper) and traded the other one (Jeff Bagwell) for some 2nd half relief help. They picked the wrong one and it probably cost them a hundred wins over the next 13 or 14 years.
Trading prospects is always a scary proposition, but it's going to happen. You just have to hope it's done right.
Yeah, but how many wins did they gain back by trading Heathcliff Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe?
That trade still boggles my mind. What robbery.
MTYankee23
06-12-07, 01:27 PM
With all the high-ceiling pitching depth the Yankees have at every level, it's inevitable that some arms will wind up elsewhere. The real danger is trading the wrong ones. Back in 1990, the Red Sox thought one of their two 3rd base prospects had a higher ceiling than the other, so they kept him (Scott Cooper) and traded the other one (Jeff Bagwell) for some 2nd half relief help. They picked the wrong one and it probably cost them a hundred wins over the next 13 or 14 years.
Trading prospects is always a scary proposition, but it's going to happen. You just have to hope it's done right.
At the time, Cooper was 22 in AAA with a .724 OPS, and Bagwell was 22 in AA with a .879 OPS. Cooper had put up a .701 OPS as a 21 year old the year before in AA. I can't fathom on what scale someone would have considered Cooper to be the better prospect, sure age means something, but I don't think it means that much.
Yeah, but how many wins did they gain back by trading Heathcliff Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe?
You win some, you lose some. ;)
It's nice to win a big one every now and then, too, but the Bagwell deal put the Sox so far behind that even an outrageously lucky win like the Seattle trade couldn't pull them back to even.
The hardest thing to accept about the Bagwell trade was that Bagwell had put up an .879 OPS in AA, while Scott Cooper struggled in Pawtucket with a .724 OPS, and Lou Gorman still thought keeping Cooper (who he considered to be ML ready) was the smart play. It wasn't smart.
Seattle's reasoning was more defensible. Varitek was regarded as a good receiver, but he was blocked by Dan Wilson, and he'd had to repeat AA because his bat was behind his catching skills. Derek Lowe was already 24 and had struggled badly out of the bullpen in AAA in '96 before putting it together in the half season before the trade.
I think both deals serve to demonstrate how easy it is to get burned on a deal involving prospects. You have to be smart about it, but there's a lot of luck involved, too.
Yankees1962
06-12-07, 02:37 PM
I dont anticipate that at all. Given the way this rotation has gone through it's injury problems, I dont see the Yankees trading either of them unless it's a deal they cant refuse. (i.e. Miguel Cabrera)
It's clear, to me at least, that Cashman & Co. are wanting to go with youth in the rotation and elsewhere on the field. With the way Horne and Kennedy have been pitching, they're simply too valuable to trade because of the unreliability of the old guys in the rotation.
I think Horne going is a possiblity, but not Kennedy due to when he signed his contract with the Yankees. Of course, this is all speculation and is dependent on which player(s) Cashman is looking to deal for.
Big Game Andy
06-12-07, 02:40 PM
I don't understand why we can't wait until we find out whether this pitching depth is actually legit and major league quality before we start formulating trade rumors and deeming players trade-bait.
Yankees1962
06-12-07, 02:44 PM
I don't understand why we can't wait until we find out whether this pitching depth is actually legit and major league quality before we start formulating trade rumors and deeming players trade-bait.
Because this is a baseball discussion forum. If you don't like the discussion topic then stop reading the thread.
Big Game Andy
06-12-07, 02:50 PM
Because this is a baseball discussion forum. If you don't like the discussion topic then stop reading the thread.
Did you watch the 2005 season? This season? We saw how quickly our pitching depth evaporated this year, I just think it's kinda crazy to want to auction off some of this depth when our starters are injury prone and getting older. I understand what people are trying to say, yes it looks like we have depth and some of it will be excess and could be traded away for something valuable, but I think our main course of action within the next year and a half should be to hold onto our pitching depth. You never know what can happen.
And thanks, but I have every right to chime in my opinion, even if you disagree with it.
In a way, I agree with Andy. As most of you may recall, in the early years under Torre, there were always 7 starters for the 5 rotation spots. Every March the same cries came up from the media, what will the Yankees do with so many starters?
Well, due to injuries, or whatever, it always worked out. And you know what? It will work out with all the kids in the Minors also. Some will stay, some will go. Some will be productive Major Leaguers for the Yankees, and some will be AAAA guys forever.
But it will all shake out. And I, for one, am looking forward to that happening, real soon.:D
Yankees1962
06-12-07, 03:09 PM
And thanks, but I have every right to chime in my opinion, even if you disagree with it.
Hey, you're the one questioning our right to discuss these prospects and their roles in potential trades. The only thing I suggested was if you're bother by such a discussion then don't read the thread, but don't try to tell me what I should or shouldn't discuss on this forum because I won't do the same to you.
Hughes2.50
06-13-07, 10:57 PM
I don't understand why we can't wait until we find out whether this pitching depth is actually legit and major league quality before we start formulating trade rumors and deeming players trade-bait.Because some times a team has an excellent way of evaluating what they have in the minors, and the particular pitchers in question might have more value in trades than they do once they actually pitch in the majors. Maybe you can think of a pitcher or two that would be true about.
NYDCYankee
06-14-07, 04:15 AM
If Joba continues his dominance in AA for two more months, does anyone think the Yankees are looking at him as a power bullpen arm option for the end of this year?
Yankees1962
06-14-07, 04:51 AM
If Joba continues his dominance in AA for two more months, does anyone think the Yankees are looking at him as a power bullpen arm option for the end of this year?
I seriously doubt it.
yank4life2005
06-14-07, 05:44 AM
I seriously doubt it.
I agree. Joe Torre loves his veteran guys especially when we are going deep into the season.
Kennedy and Chamberlain should be ready sometime next season.
surge511
06-14-07, 10:16 AM
So with the amount of very quality starters moving into AAA/ the majors next season, what will happen with Sanchez when he comes back? Starter or bullpen? I think he could make a great closer with his stuff.
philleotardo
06-14-07, 10:29 PM
So with the amount of very quality starters moving into AAA/ the majors next season, what will happen with Sanchez when he comes back? Starter or bullpen? I think he could make a great closer with his stuff.
I agree. I'm not sure the Yanks/Cashman didn't already have that in mind when they dealt for him.
b_joseph
06-14-07, 11:22 PM
So with the amount of very quality starters moving into AAA/ the majors next season, what will happen with Sanchez when he comes back? Starter or bullpen? I think he could make a great closer with his stuff.
Kontos, White and Sanchez could all make for good relievers.
I think White may be made a reliever soon and if he is, he's the kind of power arm that could help down the stretch.
Because some times a team has an excellent way of evaluating what they have in the minors, and the particular pitchers in question might have more value in trades than they do once they actually pitch in the majors. Maybe you can think of a pitcher or two that would be true about.
To me, Eric Milton is the classic example of what you are talking about. He was a key part of the trade that brought Chuck Knoblauch here. Laugh all you want at Knoblauch and his throwing issues, but he was here in the Bronx for 4 seasons, batting leadoff, and we won 3 WS titles with him, and led the 4th year in the 9th, with Mo on the mound.
I'll take it from any trade we can do.;)
b_joseph
06-15-07, 08:46 AM
I think White may be made a reliever soon and if he is, he's the kind of power arm that could help down the stretch.
Totally agree. Plus, White could be a reliever that could give us 2-3 innings without having to think about endurance.
Totally agree. Plus, White could be a reliever that could give us 2-3 innings without having to think about endurance.
Sean Henn comes to mind.
Sean Henn comes to mind.Henn and White are both nice, cheap bullpen options.
Henn and White are both nice, cheap bullpen options.
Strong throwing kids. Lefty and Righty.
I like this combo for the middle innings for 2008 and beyond.
CallOfTheCrow
06-15-07, 10:53 PM
Kennedy goes tomorrow I believe. I want to go.
Kennedy goes tomorrow I believe. I want to go.Godspeed and go! Have a great time!
flymick24
06-16-07, 07:28 AM
Strong throwing kids. Lefty and Righty.
I like this combo for the middle innings for 2008 and beyond.
even though white probably has better raw stuff than proctor, i feel like his learning curve will be around the same
b_joseph
06-16-07, 09:17 AM
Sean Henn comes to mind.
Definitely.
If everything falls into place. We could have a very cheap and very explosive pitching staff for the next 6-8 years.
Proctor
Bruney
Henn
White
Sanchez
Kontos
Hughes
Joba
Wang
Future's bright.
budstinks
06-16-07, 08:16 PM
Kennedy done tonight 5 ip - 4 hits - 2 er - 2 bb's - 9 K's
He's through the fifth with a two run lead.
I know many of you don't think wins are important to a pitcher, but if he can nail down number 9 tonight, that is damn impressive.
http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=96
scooterfan
06-16-07, 08:37 PM
http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=96
Great link!
By the way - another great part of the Kennedy line - 5 ground ball outs, 1 flyball out (on top of 9 K's to 2 walks)
Can't beat those peripherals
Yankees1962
06-16-07, 08:39 PM
http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=96
Thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading both of those stories about Chamberlain and Kennedy. Their time is coming soon, perhaps as soon as next season.
budstinks
06-16-07, 09:37 PM
Kennedy 9-1 1.59 era, 79 ip, 52 h, 14 er, 26 bb, 91 k's
Wow, who would have thought he'd put up those numbers.
Keep up those numbers and he'll be moving on up.
CanoForPresident
06-16-07, 10:05 PM
Kennedy 9-1 1.59 era, 79 ip, 52 h, 14 er, 26 bb, 91 k's
Wow, who would have thought he'd put up those numbers.
Keep up those numbers and he'll be moving on up.
Nice to see a Trojan Alum doing well for himself :)
NYJets37
06-16-07, 10:52 PM
So do you guys think there is a chance that either of these 2 will make the Yankees rotation out of spring training next year?
Hughes2.50
06-16-07, 10:55 PM
So do you guys think there is a chance that either of these 2 will make the Yankees rotation out of spring training next year?I think Joba has an excellent chance.<p>I see the starting rotation starting out of ST in April looking like this:<p>Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes, Chamberlain
Yankees1962
06-16-07, 10:55 PM
So do you guys think there is a chance that either of these 2 will make the Yankees rotation out of spring training next year?
I don't see the Yankees letting two rookies become part of their rotation out of spring training, unless, they had some injuries. Unless, of course, Hughes doesn't get enough innings in the ML this season and is still a rookie according to the rules next year.
danman1202
06-16-07, 10:59 PM
So do you guys think there is a chance that either of these 2 will make the Yankees rotation out of spring training next year?
They both seem to be on the fast track as of now, and they both are not staright out of hig school kids, so I guess it's a possibility. However, with what I saw with Hughes this year and how Cashman basically said that he was not making the team out of Spring Training, I'll assume for now that he would do the same with both Chamberlain and Kennedy. Also, many things can happen between now and next Spring Training that would prevent this situation from arising. I'll cross my fingers so that any of that never happens.
Hughes2.50
06-16-07, 10:59 PM
I don't see the Yankees letting two rookies become part of their rotation out of spring training, unless, they had some injuries. Unless, of course, Hughes doesn't get enough innings in the ML this season and is still a rookie according to the rules.Who would be the two rookies?<p>Presumably Hughes will have already pitched in 16-19 starts or so (including playoffs hopefully). Would you count him as a rookie if he does at least as well as Wang did in 2005 to end the season?
Hughes2.50
06-16-07, 11:04 PM
They both seem to be on the fast track as of now, and they both are not staright out of hig school kids, so I guess it's a possibility. However, with what I saw with Hughes this year and how Cashman basically said that he was not making the team out of Spring Training, I'll assume for now that he would do the same with both Chamberlain and Kennedy. Also, many things can happen between now and next Spring Training that would prevent this situation from arising. I'll cross my fingers so that any of that never happens.Next spring Chamberlain will be two years older than Hughes was this past spring. Cashman's eyes have been opened to how good some of his minor league pitchers might be, and he won't have to exercise quite the same caution with the more physically mature Chamberlain, who will be just about out of the injury nexus (about 23 years old).
Yankees1962
06-16-07, 11:07 PM
Who would be the two rookies?Presumably Hughes will have already pitched in 16-19 starts or so (including playoffs hopefully). Would you count him as a rookie if he does at least as well as Wang did in 2005 to end the season?
At this time, I don't know how many starts, Hughes is going to get. However, I thought my previous post was clear. The Yankees won't start two rookies out of spring training, unless, injuries play a major part, one way or another.
albo4lyfe
06-16-07, 11:12 PM
Eh, I don't see Chamberlain starting out of ST. My guess is that he'll spend the rest of the year in Trenton and then start next year in SWB and be one of the first in line for a call-up.
Yankees1962
06-16-07, 11:13 PM
Next spring Chamberlain will be two years older than Hughes was this past spring. Cashman's eyes have been opened to how good some of his minor league pitchers might be, and he won't have to exercise quite the same caution with the more physically mature Chamberlain, who will be just about out of the injury nexus (about 23 years old).
True, but Chamberlain is only 9 months older than Hughes.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-17-07, 12:23 AM
True, but Chamberlain is only 9 months older than Hughes.right, but Chamberlain in April 08 is like 2 years older than Hughes in April 07
Yankees1962
06-17-07, 04:17 AM
right, but Chamberlain in April 08 is like 2 years older than Hughes in April 07
Did you not read my "true" comment that reaffirms what Hughes stated about the 2 years difference between Hughes in April, 2007 and Chamberlain in April, 2008?
surge511
06-17-07, 10:47 AM
I bet the Yankees probably sign one SP this offseason, and I would bet that Chamberlain starts the year in AAA, and gets called up sometime during the season because of injury.
Hughes2.50
06-17-07, 11:06 AM
I bet the Yankees probably sign one SP this offseason, and I would bet that Chamberlain starts the year in AAA, and gets called up sometime during the season because of injury.I seriously doubt the Yankees sign any starting pitchers this year, except to hope that Pettitte comes back for his second 'option' year. The Yankees will have Hughes, Chamberlain, and Igawa all competiting for two starting positions after Wang, Mussina, and Pettitte. There are enough guys in the minors to play the role of fill-in for needs that come up during the season.<p>Cashman won't be dumping big money in the free agent market for starting pitchers. Not now that he has so many good pitchers ready, or nearly ready for the majors.
MaineSoxFan
06-17-07, 11:08 AM
I seriously doubt the Yankees sign any starting pitchers this year, except to hope that Pettitte comes back for his second 'option' year. The Yankees will have Hughes, Chamberlain, and Igawa all competiting for two starting positions after Wang, Mussina, and Pettitte. There are enough guys in the minors to play the role of fill-in for needs that come up during the season.Cashman won't be dumping big money in the free agent market for starting pitchers. Not now that he has so many good pitchers ready, or nearly ready for the majors now.
What do you anticipate the max innings they will have Chamberlain pitch next year, assuming he dominates AA?
Hughes2.50
06-17-07, 11:14 AM
What do you anticipate the max innings they will have Chamberlain pitch next year, assuming he dominates AA?It isn't a matter of whether he dominates AA as to how many innings they want him to pitch next year. This year, the Yankees will in all likelihood be happy if Chamberlain can get 160 innings (he's been at about 130 the last two years). <p>Next year, the Yankees could be expected to allow Chamberlain to stretch out to 190-200 innings (essentially a full work load for a #5 starter in MLB).
MaineSoxFan
06-17-07, 11:18 AM
It isn't a matter of whether he dominates AA as to how many innings they want him to pitch next year. This year, the Yankees will in all likelihood be happy if Chamberlain can get 160 innings (he's been at about 130 the last two years). Next year, the Yankees could be expected to allow Chamberlain to stretch out to 190-200 innings (essentially a full work load for a #5 starter in MLB).
I understand the innings don't depend on how he does in AA, but being in the majors likely will, that was why I added that.
I didn't know what he was projected to pitch in innings this year, makes sense that he could make the jump next year.
Hughes2.50
06-17-07, 11:24 AM
I understand the innings don't depend on how he does in AA, but being in the majors likely will, that was why I added that.In any event, Chamberlain would be on track to handle a full workload of innings for the 5th starter, while Hughes would be maxed out around 180 innings. Neither will present a problem to accomplish, because the Yankees can limit starts if they need to by giving long-relief/spot-starter Igawa a spot start here or there to keep things manageable. And of course the Yankees will have a plethora of pitchers in AA/AAA chomping at the bit to get a start in the majors. <p>The Yankees will wisely stay out of the highly-heated free agent market for pitchers this year.
The Yankees will wisely stay out of the highly-heated free agent market for pitchers this year.
Definitely. I'd be frightened to bring a guy like Zambrano in.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-17-07, 11:58 AM
Did you not read my "true" comment that reaffirms what Hughes stated about the 2 years difference between Hughes in April, 2007 and Chamberlain in April, 2008?I guess the "but" threw me off. why do you feel it matters that they are only 9 months apart?
GrouchoNYY
06-17-07, 12:03 PM
I'd like to revisit this thread after the trade deadline. The shape of the team in 2008 is too hard to imagine now. The shape of this team down the stretch is unclear. We don't even know if the current hot streak is the norm or an aberration of interleague proportions. Are we in a pennant race, or wild card chase? Will Phil be healthy enough to do a 1964 Stottlemyre? Will Igawa blow up his second chance in San Francisco? If so, who is the next up in the #5 slot? Is there a major trade on the horizon? 2008 is too far away
http://www.nj.com/thunder/
Joba is pitching right now!
Yankees1962
06-17-07, 12:10 PM
I guess the "but" threw me off. why do you feel it matters that they are only 9 months apart?
Because when they both start taking their turns in the Yankee rotation within the next 12 months, they will still be 21-22 years old.
Hughes2.50
06-17-07, 12:12 PM
Because when they both start taking their turns in the Yankee rotation within the next 12 months, they will still be 21-22 years old.In 2008 Hughes will be in his 22nd calender year, and Joba Chamberlain will be in his 23rd.
Yankees1962
06-17-07, 12:15 PM
In 2008 Hughes will be in his 22nd calender year, and Joba Chamberlain will be in his 23rd.
I know that, but I look at differently, when a ballplayer's birthday is after September 1st (Chamberlain) because he's playing most of the year at that other age and I'm hoping they're both in the rotation before next year's birthdays.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-17-07, 12:17 PM
I know that, but I look at differently, when a ballplayer's birthday is after September 1st because he's playing most of the year at that other age and I'm hoping they're both in the rotation before next year's birthdays.The way Chamberlain is pitching I hope they both start 2008 in the rotation.
AMarshal2
06-17-07, 09:31 PM
The Yankees won't start Chamberlain in the 2008 rotation. Big league teams are too concerned about stressful innings and big market clubs are too concerned about depth to do something like that.
Chamberlain sure has looked good lately. (Yes, I like him more than Bowden.)
BennyTheJetRodriguez
06-17-07, 10:35 PM
The Yankees won't start Chamberlain in the 2008 rotation. Big league teams are too concerned about stressful innings and big market clubs are too concerned about depth to do something like that.
Chamberlain sure has looked good lately. (Yes, I like him more than Bowden.)It wouldn't be unpresidented. I think Cash is smart enough to do the right thing. We'll see I guess.
Metroidman
06-18-07, 06:34 AM
Joba in 08 will be Hughes in 07(or what Hughes should've been in 07)
Do the minors thing till a midseason callup
So do you guys think there is a chance that either of these 2 will make the Yankees rotation out of spring training next year?
There is always a chance, but I seriously doubt it, unless things go awry. I think Hughes will join Wang, Moose, Petitte and Igawa as the "April 2008" version of the starting 5. Injuries and poor performances will then determine whatever changes are made during the season.
For 2009, look for Joba and Kennedy (if he is not traded for a hitter before then) to be in the mix in ST, along with Hughes and Wang, and maybe Igawa (lefty). I am not one who believes that Santana will ever see the light of FA. Twins aren't stupid, and Pohlad (the owner) is one of the wealthiest owners in the game.
Yankees1962
06-18-07, 07:24 AM
There is always a chance, but I seriously doubt it, unless things go awry. I think Hughes will join Wang, Moose, Petitte and Igawa as the "April 2008" version of the starting 5. Injuries and poor performances will then determine whatever changes are made during the season.
For 2009, look for Joba and Kennedy (if he is not traded for a hitter before then) to be in the mix in ST, along with Hughes and Wang, and maybe Igawa (lefty). I am not one who believes that Santana will ever see the light of FA. Twins aren't stupid, and Pohlad (the owner) is one of the wealthiest owners in the game.
Pohlad doesn't believe in spending any of his personal wealth on his ballclub. Ask any Twins fan. Whether Santana actually hits free agency depends on how much money he wants. If he wants 20M per season, I don't see the Twins spending that amount of money on one player.
Pohlad doesn't believe in spending any of his personal wealth on his ballclub. Ask any Twins fans.
He also never had a stud like Santana. It's one thing to not pay a 30+ year old Torre Hunter, but Santana is a whole different ballgame.
Yankees1962
06-18-07, 07:27 AM
He also never had a stud like Santana. It's one thing to not pay a 30+ year old Torre Hunter, but Santana is a whole different ballgame.
That old leopard isn't changing his spots.
Yankees1962
06-18-07, 07:28 AM
Another thing, what are the contract status of the Twins closer, catcher and first baseman?
Another thing, what are the contract status of the Twins closer, catcher and first baseman?
Mauer is signed for 4 years, I believe. The old leopard did change his spots for him. I thought I read a blurb on Morenau, but I can't recall.
They are probably going to lose Nathan.
yankeebot
06-18-07, 07:40 AM
Another thing, what are the contract status of the Twins closer, catcher and first baseman? Nathan has a $6M club option for 2008, Mauer re-signed last year for 08:$6.25M, 09:$10.5M, 10:$12.5M, and Morneau is on a one year deal so he will either agree to an extension or face another arb year.
Yankees1962
06-18-07, 07:45 AM
Nathan has a $6M club option for 2008, Mauer re-signed last year for 08:$6.25M, 09:$10.5M, 10:$12.5M, and Morneau is on a one year deal so he will either agree to an extension or face another arb year.
Which means over 50M tied up a year for just 4 players. It should be interesting to see what that old leopard does.
Nathan has a $6M club option for 2008, Mauer re-signed last year for 08:$6.25M, 09:$10.5M, 10:$12.5M, and Morneau is on a one year deal so he will either agree to an extension or face another arb year.
Is Nathan a club option, or a player option?
Thanks.
Yankees1962
06-18-07, 07:47 AM
Mauer is signed for 4 years, I believe. The old leopard did change his spots for him. I thought I read a blurb on Morenau, but I can't recall.
They are probably going to lose Nathan.
Old leopard ponying up 20M for one player is a big change. Again, the ball is in Santana's court as far as how much he wants to maximize his earnings after next season?
yankeebot
06-18-07, 08:21 AM
Is Nathan a club option, or a player option?
Thanks.
Club per Cots.
Reggievision
06-18-07, 09:12 AM
Which means over 50M tied up a year for just 4 players. It should be interesting to see what that old leopard does.
I can tell you exactly what he'll do - plead poverty and ask for more free welfare money from Mr. Steinbrenner's money teat.
I can tell you exactly what he'll do - plead poverty and ask for more free welfare money from Mr. Steinbrenner's money teat.
Well, that's a given, regardless.;)
Donnybaseball72
06-18-07, 02:29 PM
Don't forget that the Twinkies are moving into a new park with additional revenue streams taboot.
SojosBoys
06-21-07, 03:14 PM
does anyone have the article they just put up on baseball america about the depth of the yankees minor league pitching prospects? If so please post.
DWells4prez
06-21-07, 03:27 PM
does anyone have the article they just put up on baseball america about the depth of the yankees minor league pitching prospects? If so please post.
i wrote a recap in one of the other threads, sorry if i find which 1 ill post a link, i think its player report june edition
b-ball-lunachick
06-21-07, 03:48 PM
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but Chamberlain will be the lone representative of the Yankees at the Futures Game in July.
I like that game better than the ASG.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/allstargames.jsp?mc=_us_07&sid=milb
Yankees1962
06-24-07, 06:21 AM
A great article about Chamberlain in today's Post. Needless to say, people are taking notice and it won't be long now when he's pitching for the Yankees. My prediction, a year from today.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06242007/sports/joba_the_hot_sports_kevin_kernan.htm
Donnybaseball72
06-24-07, 07:41 AM
This is the same Kevin Kernan who wants to trade every prospect away.
MylesThomas1927
06-24-07, 09:28 AM
A great article about Chamberlain in today's Post. Needless to say, people are taking notice and it won't be long now when he's pitching for the Yankees. My prediction, a year from today.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06242007/sports/joba_the_hot_sports_kevin_kernan.htm
I just became a bigger Joba fan.
ICEBERG18
06-24-07, 10:31 AM
ERIE, Pa. -- In the press box at Jerry Uht Park on Friday, two long- time major-league players couldn't agree on exactly what they were seeing from Joba Chamberlain on the mound.
Rafael Landestoy, now a roving coach for the Detroit Tigers, swore he saw a changeup. Dave Hollins, now a scout for the Baltimore Ori oles, was convinced it was a slider.
They finally settled on this: Whatever the pitch, the Erie SeaWolves couldn't hit it.
Chamberlain's best pitch has been a mid-80s slider that he sets up with a mid-90s fastball. Neither is particularly overpowering, but his command of the slider makes it an unusually effective out pitch against both right- and left-handers.
"He threw a front-door slider on a right-handed hitter for a strikeout (on Friday)," Thunder catcher P.J. Pilittere said. "That's a great pitch. You won't see too many guys who can throw it. The command of his slider is what makes it so good."
"He has very good stuff -- above-average stuff," Erie manager Matt Walbeck said. "I think when he gets command of everything he has he's going to be very productive."
http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1182658069108760.xml&coll=5 (http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1182658069108760.xml&coll=5)
How a is a mid 90's fastball not over overpowering? But nevertheless.
b_joseph
06-24-07, 11:32 AM
Joba seems to be like Jeremy Bonderman.
ICEBERG18
06-29-07, 09:24 AM
The entourage of major-league scouts shadowing the Double-A Thunder this week in an attempt to pry top prospects Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain from the Yankees have their work cut out for them.
Chamberlain gave representatives from the Chicago White Sox, Houston Astros, Washington Nationals and St. Louis Cardinals, among others, a little bit of everything during an anemic 2-0 loss to Altoona in the first game of last night's doubleheader at Blair County Ballpark.
http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1183090135161450.xml&coll=5 (http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1183090135161450.xml&coll=5)
ICEBERG18
06-29-07, 11:15 PM
"Ninety-nine out of 100 times, I'll put the changeup just where I want to,'' Kennedy said to Weisberger. "I have confidence I almost always will get it (there). It's a good pitch for me.''
"I found that there is time to have fun, but you also have to discipline yourself if you want to succeed in this,'' said Chamberlain to Weisberger. "The rewards may not come right away, but they will come if you continue to work. I know I still have a lot of work to do, to become more consistent.''
"My fastball and slider are my two best pitches right now,'' Chamberlain said to Weisberger. "I can throw my change and curve for strikes as well, but I really want to work on my change.
http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070629&content_id=1427015&oid=36019&vkey=4 (http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070629&content_id=1427015&oid=36019&vkey=4)
ICEBERG18
07-02-07, 01:35 PM
"It's my first year, they just want to keep me in low innings," said Kennedy, who started the season with Class A Advanced Tampa, where he was 6-1 with a 1.29 ERA in 11 games. He also pitched 2 2/3 innings with the New York-Penn League's Staten Island Yankees in September last season.
"I didn't get to see it because I was downstairs [in the weight room]. I just heard it on my radio," Kennedy said. "I watched the sixth. They make us come down and do arm exercises, ride the bike."
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070701&content_id=268660&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070701&content_id=268660&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp)
Aviezer
07-03-07, 10:22 PM
If Joba dominates for 2 more starts he should be ticketed for AAA and on his way to the 08 Bronx rotation
jerez23
07-03-07, 10:31 PM
If Joba dominates for 2 more starts he should be ticketed for AAA and on his way to the 08 Bronx rotation
He only has 60IP in his pro career. If he makes 08 it would be towards the end of the year. 2009 is more like it.
looks like our savior is impressed with joba as well :)
http://www.beckett.com/beckettforum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=1449728
(keep reading for exciting news about rehab starts)
NYJets37
07-03-07, 10:36 PM
He only has 60IP in his pro career. If he makes 08 it would be towards the end of the year. 2009 is more like it.
Yea but didn't he throw a lot of innings in college?
Not like Hughes who is younger and coming from high school.
I could see him in Hughes situation from this year in 08. Most likely AAA out of spring training, but if needed he could pitch for the big club early-middle of the year.
Big Game Andy
07-03-07, 10:36 PM
Anyone paying attention to Joba's K numbers tonight?
He's through 6 scoreless, 12 punchies
hehehe
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-03-07, 10:38 PM
He only has 60IP in his pro career. If he makes 08 it would be towards the end of the year. 2009 is more like it.No way dude. He'll be up in early 08 unless he gets hurt.
NYJets37
07-03-07, 10:41 PM
hehehe
That's really Hughes?
That's pretty cool.
ICEBERG18
07-03-07, 10:43 PM
That's really Hughes?
Yep..
teknetic
07-03-07, 11:30 PM
Almost 800 posts in a year..there are more important things to worry about Phil. :mad:
I was hoping to pick up a lot of Joba when BCDP comes out cheap. Looks like i may have to dig a little deeper in my pockets.
:lol:
jerez23
07-03-07, 11:37 PM
No way dude. He'll be up in early 08 unless he gets hurt.
I see Horne up first.
2008
Wang
Hughes
Pettite(if he comes back)
Mussina
Igawa
Not including trades, FA pickups
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-03-07, 11:46 PM
I see Horne up first.
2008
Wang
Hughes
Pettite(if he comes back)
Mussina
Igawa
Not including trades, FA pickupsIt would be pretty dumb to go with Igawa or trade/sign a starting pitcher with guys like Horne and Joba sitting in the minors. You may very well end up being right, but I would be really dissapointed in Cashman if it took until the end of next year for Joba to come up. Even if the rotation starts with what you have up there somebody will get hurt or they will give up on Igawa way before the end of the year.
NYJets37
07-04-07, 12:06 AM
Almost 800 posts in a year..there are more important things to worry about Phil. :mad:
:lol:
We don't need to worry until we see a 65pitches.com site pop up
jerez23
07-04-07, 08:09 AM
It would be pretty dumb to go with Igawa or trade/sign a starting pitcher with guys like Horne and Joba sitting in the minors. You may very well end up being right, but I would be really dissapointed in Cashman if it took until the end of next year for Joba to come up. Even if the rotation starts with what you have up there somebody will get hurt or they will give up on Igawa way before the end of the year.
I worry that if Chamberlain is pushed to the majors too soon he could hurt himself with extra workload (Jered Weaver, Mark Prior, etc). He needs to gradually get his innings up in the minors. This is 1st season pitching too. There's a lesson to be learned from rushing young pitchers with so few IP in the minors.
ICEBERG18
07-04-07, 09:10 AM
"I had all four pitches working tonight," Chamberlain said of his fastball, curve, slider and changup. "I was throwing them all for strikes."
http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1183522005127340.xml&coll=5
"I had all four pitches working tonight," Chamberlain said of his fastball, curve, slider and changup. "I was throwing them all for strikes."
http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1183522005127340.xml&coll=5
I like when he told Scott that "those guys are in for a long night."
NelsonMuntz
07-04-07, 10:16 AM
It would be pretty dumb to go with Igawa or trade/sign a starting pitcher with guys like Horne and Joba sitting in the minors. You may very well end up being right, but I would be really dissapointed in Cashman if it took until the end of next year for Joba to come up. Even if the rotation starts with what you have up there somebody will get hurt or they will give up on Igawa way before the end of the year.
From your lips to Cashman's ears, Benny.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-04-07, 05:22 PM
I worry that if Chamberlain is pushed to the majors too soon he could hurt himself with extra workload (Jered Weaver, Mark Prior, etc). He needs to gradually get his innings up in the minors. This is 1st season pitching too. There's a lesson to be learned from rushing young pitchers with so few IP in the minors.He pitched 120 innings in 05 for Nebraska and 06 for Nebraska and the Hawiian team he played for. He'll easily top that this season and be ready for a 180 inning + workload in 08.
jerez23
07-04-07, 06:27 PM
He pitched 120 innings in 05 for Nebraska and 06 for Nebraska and the Hawiian team he played for. He'll easily top that this season and be ready for a 180 inning + workload in 08.
Prior and Weaver had similar college workloads before injuries took their toll with the big league workloads. Let them pitch 180 innings in 2009. Next year they should be held around 150. Lets show patience with these prized arms.
BomberBrian
07-04-07, 06:41 PM
Kennedy, Chamberlain, Horne, and Marquez i believe are in line to throw ~160 innings this season.
That would mean they'd be looking at 190 next year.
Yankees1962
07-04-07, 06:58 PM
Kennedy, Chamberlain, Horne, and Marquez i believe are in line to throw ~160 innings this season.
That would mean they'd be looking at 190 next year.
Chamberlain would be closer to 140 innings due to him missing some time with his hamstring.
Yankees1962
07-04-07, 07:13 PM
Prior and Weaver had similar college workloads before injuries took their toll with the big league workloads. Let them pitch 180 innings in 2009. Next year they should be held around 150. Lets show patience with these prized arms.
Actually, Prior and Weaver have pitched more innings in college than Chamberlain or Kennedy. I think the Yankees will restrict their innings to 140-160 innings this season including playoffs starts. Next year, I expect them to take it up to 180 innings with starts at AAA and in the ML. Come 2009, the gloves are off with 200 innings becoming the low end number.
Prior (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Mark-Prior.shtml)
Weaver (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Jered-Weaver.shtml)
Chamberlain (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Joba-Chamberlain.shtml)
Kennedy (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/K/Ian-Kennedy.shtml)
jerez23
07-04-07, 07:22 PM
Actually, Prior and Weaver have pitched more innings in college than Chamberlain or Kennedy. I think the Yankees will restrict their innings to 140-160 innings this season including playoffs starts. Next year, I expect them to take it up to 180 innings with starts at AAA and in the ML. Come 2009, the gloves are off with 200 innings becoming the low end number.
Prior (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Mark-Prior.shtml)
Weaver (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Jered-Weaver.shtml)
Chamberlain (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Joba-Chamberlain.shtml)
Kennedy (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/K/Ian-Kennedy.shtml)
Proves my point of the danger of going from 130 iP to 180-200IP. I want nothing more than see these guys in the Bronx but they shouldn't be rushed, especially Joba & Ian. I think Horne and Marquez are almost ready for their shot at the Bronx sooner than the other two.
Yankees1962
07-04-07, 07:28 PM
Proves my point of the danger of going from 130 iP to 180-200IP. I want nothing more than see these guys in the Bronx but they shouldn't be rushed, especially Joba & Ian. I think Horne and Marquez are almost ready for their shot at the Bronx sooner than the other two.
I think it's fruitless to argue whether increased workloads had anything to do with Prior's or Weaver's injuries. I think it's more to do with genetics than anything else and possibly pitching mechanics in Weaver's case due to his pitching motion, but who really knows on this board????? Let's just say that based on the cautious nature of how the Yankees monitor their pitching program, I don't think any of these guys will have an insane number of innings pitched either this season or next.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-04-07, 07:52 PM
Prior and Weaver had similar college workloads before injuries took their toll with the big league workloads. Let them pitch 180 innings in 2009. Next year they should be held around 150. Lets show patience with these prized arms.150 next year would be dumb and pointless since they'll all be close to that this year. They all pitched 120+ last year. Prior pitched 211 innings two years removed from college. That is comfortably more than any of our guys will be throwing
ICEBERG18
07-05-07, 08:26 AM
"I don't have a brother, and he's about the closest thing to a brother that I got now," Chamberlain says. "It's one of those fun things where we'll argue about, like, 'hey, it took you 11 starts to get here and it only took me seven, but you got here first, so we'll look at it like that.'" [/URL]
[URL="http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1183623526177770.xml&coll=1"]http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1183623526177770.xml&coll=1 (http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1183623526177770.xml&coll=1)
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1183623526177770.xml&coll=1 (http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1183623526177770.xml&coll=1)
Great article, Ice! Many thanks!
Matsui55
07-05-07, 10:29 PM
150 next year would be dumb and pointless since they'll all be close to that this year. They all pitched 120+ last year. Prior pitched 211 innings two years removed from college. That is comfortably more than any of our guys will be throwing
I know I cited the info earlier on this thread, but more and more analysis is showing that the magic number is 40.
In other words, the studies are showing that the risk of injury in dramatically increased when the pitcher throws more than 40 IP than he previously did. Thus, the goal is to keep IP within 40 IP of the year before with a developing pitcher.
If Chamberlain and Kennedy threw 120 IP or so last year, the goal for this year would be to cap them at 155-160. Then , the goal for 2008 would be to stop them at 195-200 IP. After that, they should be able to handle a regular 200-220 IP ML workload in 2009.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-06-07, 11:31 AM
I know I cited the info earlier on this thread, but more and more analysis is showing that the magic number is 40.
In other words, the studies are showing that the risk of injury in dramatically increased when the pitcher throws more than 40 IP than he previously did. Thus, the goal is to keep IP within 40 IP of the year before with a developing pitcher.
If Chamberlain and Kennedy threw 120 IP or so last year, the goal for this year would be to cap them at 155-160. Then , the goal for 2008 would be to stop them at 195-200 IP. After that, they should be able to handle a regular 200-220 IP ML workload in 2009.Thanks. This pretty much goes along with what I was saying. Getting Joba over 150 this year may prove to be the only challenge as he is currently below 70.
Also do yo have a link for that info? I wasn't able to find the post you were refering to.
Snatch Catch
07-06-07, 11:40 AM
Wow!:
Chamberlain is 3-1 with a 2.60 ERA in five starts since his call-up. Over 27 2/3 innings he has gone just one inning without recording a strikeout.
Matsui55
07-06-07, 01:32 PM
Thanks. This pretty much goes along with what I was saying. Getting Joba over 150 this year may prove to be the only challenge as he is currently below 70.
Also do yo have a link for that info? I wasn't able to find the post you were refering to.
I don't have a direct link- this is something that is being discussed when you see articles about young pitchers and injuries. I think I originally saw it in relation to HS pitchers going to college, but I could be wrong about that.
Yankees1962
07-06-07, 01:44 PM
Chamberlain will miss his scheduled start on Sunday to play in the Futures Game the same day. So instead of pitching a 5-7 innings, he'll most likely pitch just 1 or 2 innings. This probably leaves him with about 10-11 more starts for Trenton's final 55 games or so. I see his total innings including playoff starts at about 140 innings this year. He pitched 89.1 innings for Nebraska last season. I don't remember how many innings he pitched in Hawaii, but I would think it would be less than 40 innings.
He pitched 89.1 innings for Nebraska last season. I don't remember how many innings he pitched in Hawaii, but I would think it would be less than 40 innings.
I think he pitched around 32 innings, so it came out to around 120 last year
Matsui55
07-06-07, 01:51 PM
Chamberlain will miss his scheduled start on Sunday to play in the Futures Game the same day. So instead of pitching a 5-7 innings, he'll most likely pitch just 1 or 2 innings. This probably leaves him with about 10-11 more starts for Trenton's final 55 games or so. I see his total innings including playoff starts at about 140 innings this year. He pitched 89.1 innings for Nebraska last season. I don't remember how many innings he pitched in Hawaii, but I would think it would be less than 40 innings.
Whcih might leave him in a good position to make one spot start for the Yanks in September, just to see what they have before shutting him down for the winter.
scooterfan
07-06-07, 02:01 PM
Matsui55 - that's about what I remember too
In fact, I remember some article at PP where Nardi Contreras mentions something about a study of injuries and increasing workload.
In 2006, Tom Verducci posted an article on SI.com on what he termed the YAE - year-after effect - when pitchers increase their innings-load by more than 30 innings year-to-year:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/11/28/pitchers/index.html
Wang is mentioned as one of the possible guys to watch - because of an increase in workload
Several articles specifically mention # of pitches - not # of innings - as being a better indicator of stress. Here's one, geared more to youth pitching:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Beware-of-Those-Dangerously-High-Workloads-for-Pitchers&id=593023
This was revisited at this Angels blog site:
http://mvn.com/mlb-angels/2006/11/29/jered-weaver-set-up-to-fail-in-2007/
Yankees1962
07-06-07, 05:22 PM
Whcih might leave him in a good position to make one spot start for the Yanks in September, just to see what they have before shutting him down for the winter.
I seriously doubt that. One spot start doesn't tell them enough, but you never know.
NY_GOLDENARMS
07-06-07, 05:32 PM
Whcih might leave him in a good position to make one spot start for the Yanks in September, just to see what they have before shutting him down for the winter.
Thats not how the Yankees organization operates. If anything he will be brought to NY as a guest with Ian like they did last year with Hughes, T-Clip and others.
Matsui55
07-06-07, 10:06 PM
I seriously doubt that. One spot start doesn't tell them enough, but you never know.
The thought process here was that if he is going to come up short on the target IP, then when the minor league season ends, they may as well let him get the needed IP in NY, rather than putting him in some winter league where they have no control over his use.
ICEBERG18
07-07-07, 08:59 AM
http://www.trentonthunder.com/ftp/Photos/chamberlain%20flag%20jersey.jpg
As usual, there were a few text messages waiting, including one from former Thunder star pitcher Phil Hughes.
“Phil was congratulating me on my selection to the (All-Star) Futures Game,’’ said the 21-year-old native of Lincoln, Neb. “He told me, “Have a good time, good luck and to do better than he did last year.’ ’’
http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=97 (http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=97)
metalboy15
07-07-07, 09:01 AM
http://www.trentonthunder.com/ftp/Photos/chamberlain%20flag%20jersey.jpg
As usual, there were a few text messages waiting, including one from former Thunder star pitcher Phil Hughes.
“Phil was congratulating me on my selection to the (All-Star) Futures Game,’’ said the 21-year-old native of Lincoln, Neb. “He told me, “Have a good time, good luck and to do better than he did last year.’ ’’
http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=97 (http://www.trentonthunder.com/HTML/Display_HTML.asp?Page=97)
Thanks! very nice article, Phil is a class act.
matcohen
07-07-07, 07:10 PM
So I looked at the BB/PA and K/PA rates of the following 48 top prospects
Matt Harrison
Matt Harrison
Jo-Jo Reyes
Jose Ascanio
Garrett Olson
Michael Bowden
Clay Buchholz
Sean Gallagher
Johnny Cueto
Chuck Lofgren
Adam Miller
Gregory Reynolds
Gio Gonzalez
Gavin Floyd
Jair Jurrjens
Dallas Trahern
Christopher Volstad
Aaron Thompson
Gabriel Hernandez
Chance Douglass
Troy Patton
Luke Hochevar
Miguel Gonzalez
Nick Adenhart
Clayton Kershaw
Scott Elbert
William Inman
Matt Garza
Kevin Mulvey
George Kontos
Joba Chamberlain
Alan Horne
Ian Kennedy
Tyler Clippard
Carlos Carrasco
Kyle Kendrick
Douglas Fister
Tyler Herron
Mitchell Boggs
Jaime Garcia
Jacob McGee
Wade Davis
Christopher Mason
Jeff Niemann
Mitch Talbot
Zachary Phillips
Eric Hurley
Collin Balester
at one level this year.
Good news
Joba is #1 at 42.10% K/PA
Kennedy is #5 at 32.30%
average is 22.68%
Bad news
Joba is #8 worst at 9.60% BB/PA
Kennedy is #12 at 9.10%
average is at 7.96%
So Joba and Ian have some work to do control wise
Tyler is 19.30% and 11.50% (3rd worst) so he has some work to do as well.
For Kennedy this is more of a concern bc pitchers without elite stuff can tend to nibble at the Major League level and walk themselves to death. Look at what happened to Clippard and DeSalvo.
scooterfan
07-07-07, 07:21 PM
For Kennedy this is more of a concern bc pitchers without elite stuff can tend to nibble at the Major League level and walk themselves to death. Look at what happened to Clippard and DeSalvo.
What I understand is about Kennedy is that he does have excellent command, but doesn't give in. If so, the walks might be a symptom of being excessively fine and not trusting the D.
Tonight's performance (2 hits, 3 walks in 6 innings) sounded pretty good. Gotta wait to see if anyone here was at the game
albo4lyfe
07-07-07, 10:11 PM
What I understand is about Kennedy is that he does have excellent command, but doesn't give in. If so, the walks might be a symptom of being excessively fine and not trusting the D.
Tonight's performance (2 hits, 3 walks in 6 innings) sounded pretty good. Gotta wait to see if anyone here was at the game
Can anyone trust the Trenton D? Especially the infield.
Hughes2.50
07-08-07, 12:49 AM
Here is a nice article<p>http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10073184<p>On the eve of Joba's national coming out party.
Time to promote Gardner and Horne.
JeffWeaverFan
07-08-07, 10:08 AM
Thought this was interesting, although I can't imagine it's true. It still is a good sign.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar07/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2929080
The Yankees' latest pitching phenom, righty Joba Chamberlain, runs it up into the mid-90s and appears to be over the groin injury that shelved him for the first part of this season and the arm trouble that knocked him out of the first round of the draft in 2006. Chamberlain, a member of the Ho-Chunk Native American tribe, is pitching so well that word has it he is now more "untouchable" in trade talks than Philip Hughes is.
BomberBrian
07-08-07, 10:32 AM
can someone PLEASE take the keyboard away from Keith Law already.
Hughes2.50
07-08-07, 12:42 PM
can someone PLEASE take the keyboard away from Keith Law already.Very nicely put!
:D
ICEBERG18
07-08-07, 09:25 PM
"He's rapidly reaching the top echelon of pitching prospects," said a scout for an opposing team. "He has the strength to develop as a starter, or he could become a power arm out of the bullpen."
"My dad hasn't been able to travel, and he hadn't seen me pitch all year until watching today on TV," he said. "He's an inspiration to me because with all his health problems, he raised me. He never asked why. He just got up every day, worked hard, cared for his family and respected our heritage.
"I'm just trying to live up to that."
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiwshD1UItOYhoIs_hrMg50RvLYF?slug=sh-futures070807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiwshD1UItOYhoIs_hrMg50RvLYF?slug=sh-futures070807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Yankees1962
07-09-07, 06:39 AM
Some nice things about Chamberlain.
The Yankees selected Chamberlain, from the University of Nebraska, in the sandwich round of the 2006 amateur draft. He had been regarded as a first-round pick before arm soreness -- Chamberlain called it "triceps tendinitis" yesterday -- raised red flags.
"As the draft day got closer, the information I was receiving from other scouting directors was that a lot of teams were eliminating him from consideration due to medical concerns," said Damon Oppenheimer, the Yankees' vice president of scouting. "The way he was throwing at the end, our scouting staff just didn't see a real medical issue."
When the Yankees' turn in the sandwich round (a compensatory pick for losing Tom Gordon to Philadelphia) arrived, Oppenheimer told Yankees general manager Brian Cashman that Chamberlain wouldn't sign for slot money, "but that he was by far the best player on the board and would be worth whatever it took to sign him. Cash told me to take him if we really felt this good about him."
The Yankees paid $1.1 million for Chamberlain, who has struck out 99 and walked 22 in 672/3 innings for Class A Tampa and Trenton. He benefited from some chats with Roger Clemens while the Yankees' $28-million man prepared in Tampa, and he uses last year's draft doubters as motivation.
"There's a lot of people who said I couldn't do it, and keep saying I can't do it," Chamberlain said. "I'm going to do everything I can to get to the big leagues and show all of the people who said I couldn't do it that I can do it."
http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spfutures0709,0,7374396.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
can someone PLEASE take the keyboard away from Keith Law already.
it simply isn't fun for them to hear that a half a dozen of the game's elite pitching prospects aren't for the taking.
Nettles9
07-09-07, 08:41 AM
In the Futures game notebook on BA, Joba was voted to have the best stuff. Since it is in a pay part of the site I can not copy the article here, but here is the link.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/features/264443.html
wang+cano=future
07-09-07, 08:58 AM
Thought this was interesting, although I can't imagine it's true. It still is a good sign.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar07/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2929080
:thatsodd:
Yeah I dont know about that one....Still I would love it if Joba turned out better than Hughes because that would mean we would have 2 ace caliber pitchers on the major league staff.
Smartin681
07-09-07, 10:26 AM
3 ace caliber pitchers.. cant forget about Wang
3 ace caliber pitchers.. cant forget about Wang
Most folks forget about Wang because he isn't a big time "K" pitcher. But he pitches well, and wins.
ICEBERG18
07-20-07, 03:06 PM
-Chamberlain may provide relief-
http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1184904534307380.xml&coll=5
-Chamberlain may provide relief-
http://www.nj.com/thunder/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1184904534307380.xml&coll=5
do you think that would be a good move??
It's not a bad way of breaking a guy into the majors overall, but it won't work well here.
Not with how Joe manages a pen.
ICEBERG18
07-20-07, 04:59 PM
do you think that would be a good move??
I would leave him where he's at, I really want to see him master that change-up.
CallOfTheCrow
07-20-07, 05:00 PM
I would leave him where he's at.
Agreed.
Plus we need him to get innings & let's face it, as a reliever PLUS with Torre managing, that will not be happening.
Snatch Catch
07-20-07, 05:08 PM
3 HR given up thus far with Cashman in attendance.
I doubt he's going to be rushed anytime soon.
ICEBERG18
07-22-07, 09:25 AM
http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-yankspitch0722.artjul22,0,5823766.story
teknetic
07-22-07, 11:56 AM
"I'll take one game like this out of 14," Chamberlain said. "It's not how you handle success, it's how you handle failure."
:)
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