View Full Version : Angels Have Interest In Giambi
NYDCYankee
05-22-07, 03:49 AM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05222007/sports/yankees/saying_halo_yankees_george_king.htm
MLB isn’t the only outfit interested in Jason Giambi. According to a person with knowledge of the Angels’ thinking, the AL West leaders have an interest in acquiring the Yankees’ DH to bolster a lineup that is last in the league in home runs.
....
The Angels’ interest in Giambi, who was in a 1-for-26 slump and batting .268 going into last night’s game, was before the recent controversy surfaced. It’s likely the Angels, who have 30 homers, will wait to see what MLB does before pursuing a deal the Yankees would have to listen to very seriously.
This could be better than voiding the deal. I would take Figgins and Molina to strengthen the bench and Kotchman to play first.
Chubzilla06
05-22-07, 04:14 AM
ill pack for him
hardrain
05-22-07, 04:21 AM
but this is George King. He simply makes things up.
parkerstrong
05-22-07, 04:22 AM
Not going to happen.....Giambi has a NTC and has said he doesn't want to go anywhere.
NYDCYankee
05-22-07, 04:23 AM
but this is George King. He simply makes things up.
He was right about more things than most NY reporters this offseason.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05222007/sports/yankees/saying_halo_yankees_george_king.htm
This could be better than voiding the deal. I would take Figgins and Molina to strengthen the bench and Kotchman to play first.
The Angels are actually a good fit if you're not looking for too much in return. Every year they make a play for Manny to supplement Vladdy until Stoneman gets cold feet and backs off. But his offers never amount to much, and, if history is any guide, he'll lowball you. You might be able to get some combination of Figgins, Molina and Kotchman (not all three), but he'll more likely offer you someone useless like Garrett Anderson.
And he'll want Cashman to bend over and throw in buckets of cash.
Pinstripedbass
05-22-07, 05:29 AM
The Angels are actually a good fit if you're not looking for too much in return. Every year they make a play for Manny to supplement Vladdy until Stoneman gets cold feet and backs off. But his offers never amount to much, and, if history is any guide, he'll lowball you. You might be able to get some combination of Figgins, Molina and Kotchman (not all three), but he'll more likely offer you someone useless like Garrett Anderson.
And he'll want Cashman to bend over and throw in buckets of cash.
Heh. I'd take Garrett Anderson just to keep him from beating up on us.;)
Heh. I'd take Garrett Anderson just to keep him from beating up on us.;)
The problem with Garrett Anderson is that if you expect him to beat up on anybody else, you're barking up the wrong washed-up outfielder. :)
Unless they give us a great offer, then I would consider it only in the offseason.
NYDCYankee
05-22-07, 05:59 AM
Unless they give us a great offer, then I would consider it only in the offseason.
And what might a reasonable great offer look like?
how about vlad for giambi straight up...
ok whatever i know it's a pipe dream.
how about vlad for giambi straight up...
ok whatever i know it's a pipe dream.
As long as you're dreaming, ask them to throw in Jered Weaver, too
And what might a reasonable great offer look like?
Mathis, and maybe a highly rated pitcher. I would love that pitcher to be Ervin Santana, but they won't give Mathis and Santana.
Somebody up there likes us.
Somebody up there likes us.
Up there in Anaheim?
yank4life2005
05-22-07, 06:14 AM
Figgins, Molina and Kotchman with NY eating about 10MM of his remaining deal.
Double-J
05-22-07, 06:22 AM
Not going to happen.....Giambi has a NTC and has said he doesn't want to go anywhere.
Giambi seems to have popularity in the locker room as well, so I doubt that the Yankees would be looking to move him for spare parts at this point.
Figgins, Molina and Kotchman with NY eating about 10MM of his remaining deal.
You heard that somewhere, or is that just what you'd be willing to accept?
nnysiny
05-22-07, 06:47 AM
Jason Giambi 1b-dh
07:$21M, 08:$21M, 09:$22M club option ($5M buyout)
* full no-trade clause
--------------------------------------------------------------
Farns and Giambi for Speier and Napoli?
Jason Giambi 1b-dh
07:$21M, 08:$21M, 09:$22M club option ($5M buyout)
* full no-trade clause
--------------------------------------------------------------
Farns and Giambi for Speier and Napoli?
Obviously, they'd have to make it worth his while to waive the NTC ... but the quality of the ballplayers the Yankees get in return would depend a lot on how much money they sweeten the deal with.
If it's strictly a talent for talent proposition without consideration of contracts, something like that can probably can get done, although Stoneman will certainly want to keep Napoli and give up Molina. But the contract liability w/r/t Giambi is startlingly bad. Cashman would have to kick in lots more than half of it to have a chance at getting decent ballplayers in return.
And, of course, Speier can't be traded while he's on the DL.
NYDCYankee
05-22-07, 06:59 AM
He may not need much convincing to return home to Southern California.
He may not need much convincing to return home to Southern California.
Arn Tellem will help him forget how much he likes it there. :)
Yankees1962
05-22-07, 07:03 AM
Giambi isn't going anywhere this season.
JavyVazquezIsSick
05-22-07, 07:09 AM
I'd taking nothing less then Kotchman and Adenhart, for arguably our best hitter.
Double-J
05-22-07, 07:11 AM
Giambi is our best hitter? This season? In terms of what...?
Because up until last night, he's been one of our least effective hitters, hovering above the Abreu and Cano status as the rock bottom of our order because of his 6 home runs...
TEPLimey
05-22-07, 07:14 AM
He was right about more things than most NY reporters this offseason.
If a monkey jumps on a keyboard long enough, eventually he will write a cogent sentence.
Yankees1962
05-22-07, 07:15 AM
Giambi is our best hitter? This season? In terms of what...?
Because up until last night, he's been one of our least effective hitters, hovering above the Abreu and Cano status as the rock bottom of our order because of his 6 home runs...
Giambi's been hurt every since that Texas series in Arlington which is another reason why I think he's bound to stay here for this season.
I'd taking nothing less then Kotchman and Adenhart, for arguably our best hitter.
We're not talking about A-Rod here. ;)
nnysiny
05-22-07, 07:17 AM
I'd taking nothing less then Kotchman and Adenhart, for arguably our best hitter.
4th best hitter/player
BRNXBMRS
05-22-07, 07:19 AM
Unless the Yanks pay part of his salary, what are they going to get back? Giambi is staying.
Double-J
05-22-07, 07:26 AM
Giambi's been hurt every since that Texas series in Arlington which is another reason why I think he's bound to stay here for this season.
I realize that. I'm disagreeing more with the idea that Giambi is our best hitter, especially when we have Posada and Jeter tearing up the AL leaderboards right now.
he just got that ortho-support for his shoe, right?
giambi tears into a few this week and his value increases.
yankeebot
05-22-07, 07:39 AM
he just got that ortho-support for his shoe, right?
giambi tears into a few this week and his value increases.
Giambi's value is what it is. I Shoe inserts and a hot streak aren't going to change it.
Double-J
05-22-07, 07:44 AM
he just got that ortho-support for his shoe, right?
giambi tears into a few this week and his value increases.
But from what I understand (and have experienced myself), plantar fasciitis/heel spurs don't go away overnight, even after orthotics. It takes a while to correct. [/not_a_professional_medical_opinion]
Yankees1962
05-22-07, 07:46 AM
But from what I understand (and have experienced myself), plantar fasciitis/heel spurs don't go away overnight, even after orthotics. It takes a while to correct. [/not_a_professional_medical_opinion]
From personal experience, yes indeed it stays with you always unless you have surgery.
Maris*61
05-22-07, 07:52 AM
Kotchman for Giambi would be a great move for this team. Giambi, after his comments to USA Today is a great liability. Baseball could suspend him ala Grimsley.
cupcollector99
05-22-07, 08:07 AM
It would be nice to rid the Yankees of that albatross of a contract to fill some holes on the bench and maybe an arm they can package and flip later.
That being said, he does help anyone that hits in front of him and his clubhouse leadership is important to a team that is as fragile as the Yankees are right now. Once Posada and Jeter cool off, his services will become more important than ever.
JavyVazquezIsSick
05-22-07, 08:08 AM
4th best hitter/player
Yes, thus far this year, but arguably for the last 3 years, he has been our best hitter. And Giambi's OPS+ is 133 no where near Abreu or Cano, they shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
YankeeStripes
05-22-07, 08:12 AM
We need Giambi to win this season. We cant keep trading players like Sheffield and Giambi, and be suprised when we're 5 games under. He still takes a lot of pitches, gets on base, and tonight he hit a big HR.
he's an impact player, keep him.
JavyVazquezIsSick
05-22-07, 08:15 AM
We need Giambi to win this season. We cant keep trading players like Sheffield and Giambi, and be suprised when we're 5 games under. He still takes a lot of pitches, gets on base, and tonight he hit a big HR.
he's an impact player, keep him.
Agreed, like I said, no less then Kotchman and Adenhart.
Double-J
05-22-07, 08:15 AM
Kotchman for Giambi would be a great move for this team. Giambi, after his comments to USA Today is a great liability. Baseball could suspend him ala Grimsley.
How though? Wouldn't they have to prove he had taken steroids after their latest penalties had gone into effect?
Maybe I'm confused, but I don't understand how they could penalize Giambi for admitting steroid use if he did it before the new "laws" went into effect in the MLB, unless they could prove otherwise.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 08:18 AM
Giambi's been hurt every since that Texas series in Arlington which is another reason why I think he's bound to stay here for this season.
Time to update that list. Gherig*61 is going to be happy.
The Dynasty
05-22-07, 08:20 AM
Agreed, like I said, no less then Kotchman and Adenhart.
Giambi + $$$ for Kotchman and Adenhart would be an absolute no-brainer, IMO. The Angels MAY soon be forced to give up some of its chips in order to obtain a bat. I know Giambi has a NTC, but going back home (and perhaps a 2-year extension? at lesser $$$'s) may be something he'll consider.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 08:26 AM
Giambi's value is what it is. I Shoe inserts and a hot streak aren't going to change it.
I don't look around the league and see many lineup changing bats that are even remotely available. Giambi behind Vlad would be enormous for the Angels. There's really no argument on that.
And his contract is sure a hell of a lot more palatable now than it was 4 years ago, given recent inflation. He's still got an OBP of .393, even with his struggles, and you have to think he's going to improve on that. Write him down for 35-40 HR and 110-130 RBI in this lineup.
That said, I'd rather we keep Giambi unless we get a superb prospect back, which I'm not sure we will. Adenhart would fit that bill to me. This lineup simply can't absorb another mediocre hitter, and who would we DH?
Now, I could certainly see us doing this for a top prospect, then flipping that prospect and a DeSalvo, Henn combination to Texas for Teixeira (the prospect would have to be very solid). That, to me, would absolutely fit the bill.
swityak11
05-22-07, 08:27 AM
I can't see Anaheim giving up any top prospects unless the Yankees pay a significant portion of the +/-$35 million still owed through 08.
He's going nowhere, but only because I can't see any GM willing to meet Cashman's probably high asking price.
Double-J
05-22-07, 08:30 AM
Now, I could certainly see us doing this for a top prospect, then flipping that prospect and a DeSalvo, Henn combination to Texas for Teixeira (the prospect would have to be very solid). That, to me, would absolutely fit the bill.
I like that idea, though I'm not sure we'd even need to go that far. The Rangers need pitching, so I think we probably could get away with tossing them some of our lesser pitching prospects and and top prospect. Keeping Giambi at DH AND having Teixeira would be nice. Whether that's realistic or not I'm not sure.
In Mo I Trust
05-22-07, 08:32 AM
It'd have to be a pretty nice package to move Jason mid season.
The Dynasty
05-22-07, 08:33 AM
Now, I could certainly see us doing this for a top prospect, then flipping that prospect and a DeSalvo, Henn combination to Texas for Teixeira (the prospect would have to be very solid). That, to me, would absolutely fit the bill.
Bingo. If a Giambi trade nets us chips in order to put together a package for Tex, then Cashman gets major props.
The Dynasty
05-22-07, 08:37 AM
Keeping Giambi at DH AND having Teixeira would be nice. Whether that's realistic or not I'm not sure.
If we ever go Tex, there'd be no need for Giambi and his salary. We'd be best served using whatever salary relief we get in other areas. Just an opinion.
Tom Finnigan
05-22-07, 08:40 AM
The Angels in last place would be a much better scenario - Stay away from trades with Stoneman until the Angel are struggling. His deals from strength are ridiculously one-sided. aka Backup Catcher, light hitting first baseman for a stud hitter.
Double-J
05-22-07, 08:42 AM
If we ever go Tex, there'd be no need for Giambi and his salary. We'd be best served using whatever salary relief we get in other areas. Just an opinion.
But would you rather have Matsui at DH, and Cabrera in left and at the plate, or rather have Matsui in LF and Giambi at DH?
Frankly, I'd take the latter, even if the salary concerns are valid.
JavyVazquezIsSick
05-22-07, 08:43 AM
I like that idea, though I'm not sure we'd even need to go that far. The Rangers need pitching, so I think we probably could get away with tossing them some of our lesser pitching prospects and and top prospect. Keeping Giambi at DH AND having Teixeira would be nice. Whether that's realistic or not I'm not sure.
Matsui needs to be our DH, ASAP.
Double-J
05-22-07, 08:44 AM
Melky gives us an outstanding left field patrol, no doubt, but Matsui is adequate. I'd rather have Matsui and Giambi's bats in the lineup than Matsui and Cabrera's as an alternative...
giambi + brett smith for kotchmann?
the thing with having a ton of young starting pitching is other teams drool.
i wouldnt want to see giambi go
Yankees1962
05-22-07, 09:03 AM
giambi + brett smith for kotchmann?
the thing with having a ton of young starting pitching is other teams drool.
Why would the Yankees overpay in that trade? If Kotchman was so good, how come he's not doing better for the Angels?
If Giambi can get us a package of prospects and we can take those prospects add some more and get Tex. That would be a good trade.
yanksphan
05-22-07, 09:06 AM
If Giambi can get us a package of prospects and we can take those prospects add some more and get Tex. That would be a good trade.
I have a feeling that if Tex is available, the Angels will be calling the Rangers as well to get him for themselves.
GiambiRocks
05-22-07, 09:07 AM
NTC
This will never happen.
I have a feeling that if Tex is available, the Angels will be calling the Rangers as well to get him for themselves.
If the Rangers need pitching we are loaded. Aside from Adenhart, I'm not sure who they have.
NTC
This will never happen.
If the Angels are willing to give him a contract extension. It'll happen.
Why would the Yankees overpay in that trade? If Kotchman was so good, how come he's not doing better for the Angels?
if the yankees are giving up a pitching prospect in lieu of giving up $10-$20 million is that really considered overpayment?
smith is perhaps as 'sell high' of a prospect as there is in the game.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 09:10 AM
If we ever go Tex, there'd be no need for Giambi and his salary. We'd be best served using whatever salary relief we get in other areas. Just an opinion.
I can't think of many folks I'd rather have as a fulltime DH, who would be willing to play the position, other than Giambi.
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
AROD
Giambi
Teixeira
Matsui
Posada
Cano
:drool:
smith is perhaps as 'sell high' of a prospect as there is in the game.
Agreed. We should take advantage of it.
Yankees1962
05-22-07, 09:12 AM
if the yankees are giving up a pitching prospect in lieu of giving up $10-$20 million is that really considered overpayment?
smith is perhaps as 'sell high' of a prospect as there is in the game.
Which means they're still paying 20M for Giambi playing for somebody else while getting a player whose potential has not been realized which weakens the current Yankee lineup as well as their chances this season.
Which means they're still paying 20M for Giambi playing for somebody else while getting a player whose potential has not been realized which weakens the current Yankee lineup as well as their chances this season.
why would they still be paying giambi $20 million?
i'm saying you deal giambi (contract and all) + the uber hot brett (3 'almost' no hitters) smith for the 1B who would be instant upgrade over the scrubs the bombers trot out now.
Yankees1962
05-22-07, 09:16 AM
why would they still be paying giambi $20 million?
i'm saying you deal giambi (contract and all) + the uber hot brett (3 'almost' no hitters) smith for the 1B who would be instant upgrade over the scrubs the bombers trot out now.
Giambi has at least 40M left on his contract. The Angels will try to get the Yankees to pay off some of that contract and I don't see the Yankees making such a move in-season, when they're fighting to get back into playoff contention.
Furthermore, Kotchman was a great prospect three years ago, I'm not so sure he is such today. His current numbers certainly don't reflect that.
wang+cano=future
05-22-07, 09:16 AM
I wouldn't get hopes up for this one to pan out. Giambi's contract and NTC loom large.
giambi + brett smith for kotchmann?
the thing with having a ton of young starting pitching is other teams drool.
Yankees are fully stocked with promising pitchers, but Brett Smith is not one that I drool about. He's having great results in Trenton (he had a near no-no last night), but he certainly didn't raise any eyebrows in Tampa the last two years, and his peripherals don't look so good. His BABIP is so low it almost doesn't exist, which is a situation that will not persist over time. If you regress this kid a little bit, you get a very ordinary prospect.
I'm not persuaded.
Alan Horne and Jeff Marquez? Sure. Smith? No.
Giambi has at least 40M left on his contract. The Angels will try to get the Yankees to pay off some of that contract and I don't see the Yankees making such a move in-season, when they're fighting to get back into playoff contention.
Furthermore, Kotchman was a great prospect three years ago, I'm not so sure he is such today. His current numbers certainly don't reflect that.
right. that's where the pitching prospect comes in.
eh. i haven't done the homework - i don't even know if anaheim would want a AA pitching prospect with an era of 1.03.
as for kotchman, he's going to figure it out. he's struck out once every 10 plate appearances in his young career. he's 24. yeah, he's not pujols. but the list of guys who turned out GREAT with worse contact rates is pretty impressive.
Yankees are fully stocked with promising pitchers, but Brett Smith is not one that I drool about. He's having great results in Trenton (he had a near no-no last night), but he certainly didn't raise any eyebrows in Tampa the last two years, and his peripherals don't look so good. His BABIP is so low it almost doesn't exist, which is a situation that will not persist over time. If you regress this kid a little bit, you get a very ordinary prospect.
I'm not persuaded.
Alan Horne and Jeff Marquez? Sure. Smith? No.
hey there's a reason i have him on the table here :D
Tom Finnigan
05-22-07, 09:25 AM
hey there's a reason i have him on the table here :D
And you think Stoneman is the type of GM to get bamboozled? Was it a coincidence that Vlady wound up moving from Montreal to the Angels (following Bill to Anaheim)?
This is one smart cookie GM, and he knows that Smith is mediocre. He does not collect junk - If the Yanks are serious about trading Giambi - They should look elsewhere.
yankeesnumber1
05-22-07, 09:26 AM
Giambi isnt going anywhere.
And you think Stoneman is the type of GM to get bamboozled? Was it a coincidence that Vlady wound up moving from Montreal to the Angels (following Bill to Anaheim)?
This is one smart cookie GM, and he knows that Smith is mediocre. He does not collect junk - If the Yanks are serious about trading Giambi - They should look elsewhere.
sigh.
fine. forget smith. but there's a wealth of pitching in this system. part of enjoying that wealth is ascertaining which chips are tradable, and which ones are not...which was part of my point.
Chone Figgins makes things happen :barf:
If the Angels are desperate, I want to see them give up value. Not Figgins and Molina both of which are arguably worse hitters and hae less value than Dougie Alphabet.
flymick24
05-22-07, 09:34 AM
trading away giambi to get players like figgins and molina will make our team significantly weaker, no matter how much salary is picked up
MylesThomas1927
05-22-07, 09:35 AM
Is Texiera a free agent after this season?
If so, sign him. Matsui DH, and then we'll figure something out for the outfield.
This assumes a Giambi trade.
Chone Figgins makes things happen :barf:
If the Angels are desperate, I want to see them give up value. Not Figgins and Molina both of which are arguably worse hitters and hae less value than Dougie Alphabet.
How much value do you really expect in return for a 36 year old DH with persistent long term injury problems who expects to be paid $21M a year? Would the Angels really be comfortable paying him $7.5M more than they pay Vladdy?
If Jason Giambi goes at all, it'll be strictly as a partial salary dump (partial because the Yankees will have to eat a bunch of it) for token return. If that's not what they have in mind, they might as well give it up and start thinking about something else.
Is Texiera a free agent after this season?
If so, sign him. Matsui DH, and then we'll figure something out for the outfield.
This assumes a Giambi trade.
Teixeira isn't a free agent until after '08.
4bronxbombers
05-22-07, 09:39 AM
ill pack for him
:lol:
MylesThomas1927
05-22-07, 09:41 AM
Teixeira isn't a free agent until after '08.
oh shoot.
Tom Finnigan
05-22-07, 09:42 AM
How much value do you really expect in return for a 36 year old DH with persistent long term injury problems who expects to be paid $21M a year? Would the Angels really be comfortable paying him $7.5M more than they pay Vladdy?
If Jason Giambi goes at all, it'll be strictly as a partial salary dump (partial because the Yankees will have to eat a bunch of it) for token return. If that's not what they have in mind, they might as well give it up and start thinking about something else.
Some teams will overpay to rent a superstar - But - This usually happens later in the season when a playoff spot is up for grabs - By then I expect the Yankees to be fighting for a spot themselves - IMHO - This makes it unlikely that Mr. Giambi is going anywhere.
JL25and3
05-22-07, 09:45 AM
And, of course, Speier can't be traded while he's on the DL.Are you sure? You can't send a player to the minors while he's on the DL, but I can't find anything in the CBA that says you can't trade him.
If I'm wrong, please post some link so I can be straightened out.
Are you sure? You can't send a player to the minors while he's on the DL, but I can't find anything in the CBA that says you can't trade him.
If I'm wrong, please post some link so I can be straightened out.
You know, now that I've said it, I can't find it either. I'll keep looking, but I think I'm just wrong. I probably confused the actual provision preventing demotion while on the DL with my imaginary one.
I'm going to revise and extend my remarks. Please replace "And, of course, Speier can't be traded while he's on the DL" in my original post with "".
metalboy15
05-22-07, 09:49 AM
The Angels want our second best power hitter? give me Kotchman and Mathis and we´ll call it a day...
Breyean
05-22-07, 09:50 AM
Chone Figgins makes things happen :barf:
If the Angels are desperate, I want to see them give up value. Not Figgins and Molina both of which are arguably worse hitters and hae less value than Dougie Alphabet.
I REALLY liked this last part of King's story...
Figgins, who missed the first month of the season with a broken finger, would give the Yankees much-needed speed. The 29-year-old switch hitter can play third, second and in the outfield. Most important, he would push Robinson Cano for playing time at second if Cano’s struggles across the first seven weeks continue. Figgins has appeared in 18 games, hitting .108 (7-for-65).
If Figgins can push Cano for PT, then just shoot me now.
yankeebot
05-22-07, 09:51 AM
You know, now that I've said it, I can't find it either. I'll keep looking, but I think I'm just wrong. I probably confused the actual provision preventing demotion while on the DL with my imaginary one.
I'm going to revise and extend my remarks. Please replace "And, of course, Speier can't be traded while he's on the DL" in my original post with "".
I'm pretty sure that a player on the DL can be traded but it needs approval from the commissioner. The loophole is that players on the DL can be used as a PTBNL.
edit: Found it. http://www.mlb4u.com/wiki/index.php/Trading_Rules
PTBNLs are also used when a player currently on the DL as been previously agreed upon as part of the trade. This is because the trading of a player on the disabled list requires permission of the Commissioner. Once the player comes off the DL, he is sent to the other team as a PTBNL.
ShaneTravis
05-22-07, 09:53 AM
Chone Figgins makes things happen :barf:
If the Angels are desperate, I want to see them give up value. Not Figgins and Molina both of which are arguably worse hitters and hae less value than Dougie Alphabet.
No argument, they are worse. Chone came back (possibly) too early from his finger fracture. There is no telling if he can come back this year to even his marginal offensive numbers. So far in 2007---
AVG .108 | HR 0 | RBI 3 | OBP .159 | SLG .154
Molina--AVG .220 | HR 0 | RBI 1 | OBP .233 | SLG .254
Why in the world would we trade for that? A salary dump? Don't make me laugh. I don't care how old Jason is or broken down there is no way you trade--AVG .272 | HR 6 | RBI 19 | OBP .393 | SLG .456 for the above mentioned.
Salary dump....lol Yeah the Yanks are in the habit of dumping salary for junk.
Unless prospects enter the conversation this rumor is fodder for the papers.
Huktonfonix
05-22-07, 09:55 AM
The only place I want to see Giambi moved is back to first base.
PittsburghYankeeFan
05-22-07, 09:56 AM
Farnsworth and Giambi + one prospect (Humberto Sanchez) for K-Rod (insane drool, but it's always fun to state ridiculous trade ideas on the internet)
If Jason Giambi goes at all, it'll be strictly as a partial salary dump (partial because the Yankees will have to eat a bunch of it) for token return. If that's not what they have in mind, they might as well give it up and start thinking about something else.
I don't expect anything great. I'd rather not trade Giambi than get what is essentially junk in return. What's the point in that?
ballfour
05-22-07, 10:05 AM
How much value do you really expect in return for a 36 year old DH with persistent long term injury problems who expects to be paid $21M a year? Would the Angels really be comfortable paying him $7.5M more than they pay Vladdy?
If Jason Giambi goes at all, it'll be strictly as a partial salary dump (partial because the Yankees will have to eat a bunch of it) for token return. If that's not what they have in mind, they might as well give it up and start thinking about something else.
What would we ever do without a Red Sox fan to "keep us honest".
I don't expect anything great. I'd rather not trade Giambi than get what is essentially junk in return. What's the point in that?
Yeah, salary dumps are usually their own reward, but I wouldn't expect the Yankees to be interested in that. They're usually on the other end of those.
But after all the rumors about saving money by voiding his contract (which is essentially the same thing as a salary dump trade), I'm guessing the notion comes naturally to mind.
ShaneTravis
05-22-07, 10:27 AM
Yeah, salary dumps are usually their own reward, but I wouldn't expect the Yankees to be interested in that. They're usually on the other end of those.
But after all the rumors about saving money by voiding his contract (which is essentially the same thing as a salary dump trade), I'm guessing the notion comes naturally to mind.
#1) I would like to see a direct quote from any Yankee FO type discussing voiding a players contract. It just does not happen, I will rack my memory but can't place any names that had a contract voided by the team for "maybe, he did stuff, or commented about something, no proof but hey let's get out from under this contract." So the Yankees want to save money and they are going to take on the players union? Don't see the "same thing" as salary dump/trade. One of those options would be easy the other would be impossible.
#2) "Notion"---King should have done his homework before even mentioning this notion. If you added the 2 players together they would not equal Jason in production. Chone has been hurt and was in an 0-22 slump. He is playing poor in the field and in the box.
If anything King should have mentioned that Anderson is coming back and that means decreased playing time for Shea or another outfielder. Maybe there is a better combination out there but Giambi for Chone is an out and out laugher.
You're better than that Yass. lol
dmx42soriano
05-22-07, 10:29 AM
This part is pretty hilarious:
"According to a person with knowledge of the Angels’ thinking"
Some of these rumors are pretty lame. I don't believe anything until it comes true or I see it on ESPN.
#1) I would like to see a direct quote from any Yankee FO type discussing voiding a players contract. It just does not happen, I will rack my memory but can't place any names that had a contract voided by the team for "maybe, he did stuff, or commented about something, no proof but hey let's get out from under this contract." So the Yankees want to save money and they are going to take on the players union? Don't see the "same thing" as salary dump/trade. One of those options would be easy the other would be impossible.
#2) "Notion"---King should have done his homework before even mentioning this notion. If you added the 2 players together they would not equal Jason in production. Chone has been hurt and was in an 0-22 slump. He is playing poor in the field and in the box.
If anything King should have mentioned that Anderson is coming back and that means decreased playing time for Shea or another outfielder. Maybe there is a better combination out there but Giambi for Chone is an out and out laugher.
You're better than that Yass. lol
I am not giving any credit to the "voiding the contract" rumors, btw. If you got that impression, I didn't mean to give it. I think that's all fake news.
All I'm saying is that voiding the contract (giving up the right to have him play for you in exchange for not owing him any money) is almost exactly the same as a salary dump. Except that you don't get any token compensation for it from another team. The rumors, however false, may have put the idea of proposing a more conventional salary dump into a certain incoherent sportswriter's head. (I will never forgive him for leaving Pedro off that MVP ballot, either.)
MassNYYfan
05-22-07, 10:35 AM
The only place I want to see Giambi moved is back to first base.
In Anaheim?
ShaneTravis
05-22-07, 10:44 AM
All I'm saying is that voiding the contract (giving up the right to have him play for you in exchange for not owing him any money) is almost exactly the same as a salary dump. Except that you don't get any token compensation for it from another team.
No
A salary dump is easily achieved.
Voiding a MLB contract is going to be impossible.
If you think the ends are the same well yes they are the same. Because the end result is getting out from under a money obligation. As far as doable?
A salary dump could happen as soon as a team that needs an offensive boost takes on a large one year commitment.
Voiding a Major League ball players contract and taking on one of the strongest unions in this country and your only evidence is heresy and some comments printed in USA today....'effing impossible.
ICEBERG18
05-22-07, 10:48 AM
This part is pretty hilarious:
"According to a person with knowledge of the Angels’ thinking"
Some of these rumors are pretty lame. I don't believe anything until it comes true or I see it on ESPN.
Most of the time ESPN just reports what's in the papers anyway.
yanksphan
05-22-07, 10:51 AM
George King enjoys attention.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 10:52 AM
How much value do you really expect in return for a 36 year old DH with persistent long term injury problems who expects to be paid $21M a year? Would the Angels really be comfortable paying him $7.5M more than they pay Vladdy?
If Jason Giambi goes at all, it'll be strictly as a partial salary dump (partial because the Yankees will have to eat a bunch of it) for token return. If that's not what they have in mind, they might as well give it up and start thinking about something else.
...You seem to actually have a decent head on your shoulders, so I'll....restrain myself.
Are you saying that Giambi doesn't have value? You're talking about a guy who has--through his massive slumps--huge OBP and SLG year in and year out. 2005: .445/.535, 2006: .413/558. Even now, having slumped awfully, he's clocking in at 2007: .393/.456, and I expect with the orthontics that will rise rapidly.
Giambi is anything but a salary dump. He's one of the most feared hitters in the major leagues, nothing less. And given the inflated salaries of recent times, his contract isn't that bad. If the Yankees ate $3 million, he'd be nothing less than an absolute steal.
There are players on the Yankees who are overrated, no doubt--Matsui and Damon being the two that spring to mind. Giambi, if anything, is underrated (as is Bobby Abreu).
Were we to trade him for less than a top level prospect, I'd be floored.
No
A salary dump is easily achieved.
Voiding a MLB contract is going to be impossible.
If you think the ends are the same well yes they are the same. Because the end result is getting out from under a money obligation. As far as doable?
A salary dump could happen as soon as a team that needs an offensive boost takes on a large one year commitment.
Voiding a Major League ball players contract and taking on one of the strongest unions in this country and your only evidence is heresy and some comments printed in USA today....'effing impossible.
Mr. Shane Travis, you are arguing with something I didn't say.
I said that I believe the contract voiding rumors are false. That it won't happen. No way. Unfounded rumor. Let's establish this much, ok? I do not believe them.
Then I went on to state that, if the rumors were true (which I believe they are not -- see above statement), that voiding the contract (if it were possible, which it is almost certainly not, and even if it was Cashman wouldn't do it) would be functionally equivalent to a salary dump. See? Hypothetical. I was not comparing their relative likelihoods. I was comparing their effects.
And then I said that George King (may he ever rot) may have been inspired to write the trade rumor story by the widely circulating (though false, ever so very false) contract voiding rumors.
In what way do we disagree?
ShaneTravis
05-22-07, 11:02 AM
In what way do we disagree?
Give me time. ;)
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 11:04 AM
No
A salary dump is easily achieved.
Voiding a MLB contract is going to be impossible.
If you think the ends are the same well yes they are the same. Because the end result is getting out from under a money obligation. As far as doable?
A salary dump could happen as soon as a team that needs an offensive boost takes on a large one year commitment.
Voiding a Major League ball players contract and taking on one of the strongest unions in this country and your only evidence is heresy and some comments printed in USA today....'effing impossible.
her·e·sy <script>play_w("H0161800")</script><object style="margin: 3px 3px 5px;" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,0,0" height="13" width="10">
<embed style="margin-bottom: 4px;" src="http://img.tfd.com/play.swf" flashvars="soundpath=http://img.tfd.com/hm/mp3/H0161800" menu="false" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" height="13" width="10"></object> (hhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifrhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-shttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif)n. pl. her·e·sies 1. a. An opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member.
Yeah. God doesn't take well to that. :lol:
(the term's hearsay)
Giambi has a no-trade clause and already wouldn't allow them to trade him over the off-season, but if he would agree to a deal anywhere, I'd pay for his plane ticket. I don't care what we get back, I don't even care if we stink without him. I'd rather stink and not have any known cheaters on the team.
jughead
05-22-07, 11:06 AM
Giambi takes a lot of flack but he's a .950+ OPS hitter. You can't just replace that with anyone. I don't trade him unless I know I have a hitter to make that up, and Kotchman is not even close to being able to do that.
ShaneTravis
05-22-07, 11:08 AM
her·e·sy <script>play_w("H0161800")</script><object style="margin: 3px 3px 5px;" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,0,0" height="13" width="10">
<embed style="margin-bottom: 4px;" src="http://img.tfd.com/play.swf" flashvars="soundpath=http://img.tfd.com/hm/mp3/H0161800" menu="false" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" height="13" width="10"></object> (hhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifrhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-shttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif)n. pl. her·e·sies 1. a. An opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member.
Yeah. God doesn't take well to that. :lol:
(the term's hearsay)
Serves me right for not doing proof or spell check. But, I have it on high authority that God does not want to dump Giambi and that he/she is a big Yankee fan.
DontHateOnNumber2
05-22-07, 11:09 AM
This would be tough for me. I think Giambi is a dope hitter, but if the Angels made an offer that's hard to refuse....well, it'd be hard to refuse. We need pitching and bench guys and if they put together a decent package then Cashman should listen. Anyways, nothing gets done if Jason doesn't waive the No-Trade.
smckdwn989
05-22-07, 11:10 AM
ah yes, George King.... Mr. Credibility himself....
this thread should be merged with that "official trade speculation thread", or as I like to call it, pipedream trades...
giambi isn't going anywhere. he's needed in the bronx. and since when do the yankees care about money?
JL25and3
05-22-07, 11:11 AM
Mr. Shane Travis, you are arguing with something I didn't say.
I said that I believe the contract voiding rumors are false. That it won't happen. No way. Unfounded rumor. Let's establish this much, ok? I do not believe them.
Then I went on to state that, if the rumors were true (which I believe they are not -- see above statement), that voiding the contract (if it were possible, which it is almost certainly not, and even if it was Cashman wouldn't do it) would be functionally equivalent to a salary dump. See? Hypothetical. I was not comparing their relative likelihoods. I was comparing their effects.
And then I said that George King (may he ever rot) may have been inspired to write the trade rumor story by the widely circulating (though false, ever so very false) contract voiding rumors.
In what way do we disagree?BTW, not only have I enjoyed your friggin' Red-Sox-loving posts - you earn major (major major major) points for quoting ex-PFC Wintergreen
JL25and3
05-22-07, 11:11 AM
This would be tough for me. I think Giambi is a dope hitter, but if the Angels made an offer that's hard to refuse....well, it'd be hard to refuse. We need pitching and bench guys and if they put together a decent package then Cashman should listen. Anyways, nothing gets done if Jason doesn't waive the No-Trade.I'd be careful about calling Giambi "a dope hitter."
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 11:14 AM
I'd be careful about calling Giambi "a dope hitter."
:lol:
DontHateOnNumber2
05-22-07, 11:14 AM
I'd be careful about calling Giambi "a dope hitter."
:roflmao:
freebubba
05-22-07, 11:15 AM
Interesting. Regarding Giambi's NTC, I would think Anaheim is one of about two teams he actually would accept a trade to, let's not forget, he is a Californian.
I just think if we want anything at all of value, we end up eating about 40% of the remaining money. For those of you expecting the Angels to assume all of Giambi's salary, get a locker ready for Garret Anderson. If Napoli and Kotchman came with it, that wouldn't be so awful.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 11:17 AM
Interesting. Regarding Giambi's NTC, I would think Anaheim is one of about two teams he actually would accept a trade to, let's not forget, he is a Californian.
I just think if we want anything at all of value, we end up eating about 40% of the remaining money. For those of you expecting the Angels to assume all of Giambi's salary, get a locker ready for Garret Anderson. If Napoli and Kotchman came with it, that wouldn't be so awful.
See my post above. I really don't see why people aren't recognizing Giambi as a great hitter--someone who absolutely changes a lineup, and someone who, behind Vlad Guerrerro, could be the difference between the Angels going to the division series, and the world series.
JavyVazquezIsSick
05-22-07, 11:19 AM
Giambi takes a lot of flack but he's a .950+ OPS hitter. You can't just replace that with anyone. I don't trade him unless I know I have a hitter to make that up, and Kotchman is not even close to being able to do that.
Like I said, nothing short of Kotchman and Adenhart.
smckdwn989
05-22-07, 11:20 AM
Like I said, nothing short of Kotchman and Adenhart.
i'll take Krod for Giambi straight up :D
...You seem to actually have a decent head on your shoulders, so I'll....restrain myself.
Are you saying that Giambi doesn't have value? You're talking about a guy who has--through his massive slumps--huge OBP and SLG year in and year out. 2005: .445/.535, 2006: .413/558. Even now, having slumped awfully, he's clocking in at 2007: .393/.456, and I expect with the orthontics that will rise rapidly.
Giambi is anything but a salary dump. He's one of the most feared hitters in the major leagues, nothing less. And given the inflated salaries of recent times, his contract isn't that bad. If the Yankees ate $3 million, he'd be nothing less than an absolute steal.
There are players on the Yankees who are overrated, no doubt--Matsui and Damon being the two that spring to mind. Giambi, if anything, is underrated (as is Bobby Abreu).
Were we to trade him for less than a top level prospect, I'd be floored.
No, I'm not saying he doesn't have value. If he were free, any team with a free roster spot would love to have him. But you can't argue with the many things that subtract from his considerable value as a bat:
He's 36. That's beyond the age where power hitters not named Bonds generally enter a decline. But he's on contract for two more years, and has a big buyout on his option year.
He's fragile. His feet and legs are giving out. It really won't be long before he'll be Frank Thomas, if he's not already there. He can stand in the box and mash, but at some point, somebody's going to have to carry him around the bases. If he actually plays in the field, it only gets worse.
He makes $21.5M (including bonus) this year. He makes $21M next year. If someone picks up his option, he'll cost $22M in '09. If not, his absence will be a real steal at only $5M. You're Brian Cashman and you're willing to kick back $3M in the deal. If I'm Stoneman, am I impressed?
He's got a full NTC, so he has leverage to help him get an extension or a big bonus payment before accepting a deal. If you're Stoneman, does this please you and make you want him more and more?
He has benefitted from the short porch in right at YS. Anaheim is moderately deeper in all RF dimensions, so a few of the rocket line drives that count on the scoreboard in the Stadium will be fancy outs or off the wall in that ballpark.
I'm not dissing Giambi's value. I'm dissing his trade value, which is considerably less.
BTW, not only have I enjoyed your friggin' Red-Sox-loving posts - you earn major (major major major) points for quoting ex-PFC Wintergreen
You don't think my posts are a bit too prolix?
King's article is very interesting, and quite enticing. Seems like Figgins has been one of the Yankees' nemeses, especially in the playoffs. Am I wrong about that? He could provide speed off the bench, and a good utility option. Backup catchers? We could use one!!
I don't want to dismiss Giambi too quickly, though. He's an important hitter in the lineup, especially after Sheffield's departure. He's our left-handed power, with a good batter's eye and OBP.
While the idea may be appealing, especially in a time when the Giambino seems to be on the hot seat (particularly with MLB), we would need some good bats in return.
The issue of saving money would be consistent with Cashman's offseason philosophy, but perhaps he was saving in the offseason to be able to bid very high for Clemens, especially after losing Matsuzaka.
freebubba
05-22-07, 11:33 AM
See my post above. I really don't see why people aren't recognizing Giambi as a great hitter--someone who absolutely changes a lineup, and someone who, behind Vlad Guerrerro, could be the difference between the Angels going to the division series, and the world series.
I am not necessarily disgreeing with you on those points, but he is at the end of an extremely backloaded contract. He is owed say $15m this year and $26 million next year (salary + 09 buyout). That is a lot of money for a guy who has had more injury problems and health issues than my 93 year old grandmother. Do you honestly think that it would be ridiculous for the Angels to ask for $15 million bucks, still leaving them on the hook for $26m for 1.5 years of an aging DH with injury problems?
MattUNC2003
05-22-07, 11:35 AM
King's article is very interesting, and quite enticing. Seems like Figgins has been one of the Yankees' nemeses, especially in the playoffs. Am I wrong about that? He could provide speed off the bench, and a good utility option. Backup catchers? We could use one!!
When I was at the Stadium last year at a Yanks/Angels game, they flashed a stat up on the board that said that Chone was a career .376 hitter against NYY. I don't doubt it. That dude DOES kill Yankee pitching.
The Angels manage to destroy us enoguh already. No thanks.
hardrain
05-22-07, 11:39 AM
Figgins is intriguing, mostly because he kills us.
But he doesn't get on base as much as he should (lifetime .340 OBP) given all that speed.
On the other hand, in this age of 12 man pitching staffs, a versatile guy who can play every position is an advantage.
I'm on the fence and need help deciding here.
Figgins is a horrible hitter who is injured. "Hitting at YS" for a player in the AL West = Small Sample Size.
Look, Giambi's trade value isn't great. But you don't trade him for two terrible players with ZERO upside (they will just clog up roster spots). If they want to give us some of their position player prospects that at least have upside, then you can start thinking about it. I'd trade a mediocre pitcher like Brett Smith for Molina, but I want zero part of Chone Figgins.
JfromJersey
05-22-07, 11:48 AM
Before we get ready to ship Giambi out, why don't we check his stats. Four out of the last five seasons he's been one of the Yankees' most productive hitters. He has the best batting eye on the team, and when he's healthy and in a groove, he can carry a team for weeks with his thumping. Plus, he's very popular with his teammates. I wouldn't get rid of him so fast.
Metroidman
05-22-07, 11:50 AM
We're trading a top 10 hitter in the AL for what?
Give me a break I'm keeping him. We have no power if he leaves sans ARod
JL25and3
05-22-07, 11:53 AM
You don't think my posts are a bit too prolix?Maybe you should start signing them "Washington Irving." Or "Irving Washington."
Giambi for Figgins would be a joke. He's not a great hitter and for comic relief, looks like the illegitimate son of Willie Randolph.
JL25and3
05-22-07, 11:57 AM
No, I'm not saying he doesn't have value. If he were free, any team with a free roster spot would love to have him. But you can't argue with the many things that subtract from his considerable value as a bat:
He's 36. That's beyond the age where power hitters not named Bonds generally enter a decline. But he's on contract for two more years, and has a big buyout on his option year.
He's fragile. His feet and legs are giving out. It really won't be long before he'll be Frank Thomas, if he's not already there. He can stand in the box and mash, but at some point, somebody's going to have to carry him around the bases. If he actually plays in the field, it only gets worse.
He makes $21.5M (including bonus) this year. He makes $21M next year. If someone picks up his option, he'll cost $22M in '09. If not, his absence will be a real steal at only $5M. You're Brian Cashman and you're willing to kick back $3M in the deal. If I'm Stoneman, am I impressed?
He's got a full NTC, so he has leverage to help him get an extension or a big bonus payment before accepting a deal. If you're Stoneman, does this please you and make you want him more and more?
He has benefitted from the short porch in right at YS. Anaheim is moderately deeper in all RF dimensions, so a few of the rocket line drives that count on the scoreboard in the Stadium will be fancy outs or off the wall in that ballpark.
I'm not dissing Giambi's value. I'm dissing his trade value, which is considerably less.And then take the next step. If his trade value is less than his actual value, his value as a player, then he's definitely not someone you want to trade.
hardrain
05-22-07, 12:03 PM
Giambi for Figgins would be a joke. He's not a great hitter and for comic relief, looks like the illegitimate son of Willie Randolph.
uncalled for ....
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 12:05 PM
And then take the next step. If his trade value is less than his actual value, his value as a player, then he's definitely not someone you want to trade.
I'd actually disagree that his trade value is less.
The Angels have significant need for a big bopper. In fact, Giambi would likely be MORE valuable to them, regardless of park dimensions, due to the effect he'd have on pitchers going after Vlad right before him. The Yankees can slot in any number of feared hitters to protect ARod--not AS feared, sure, but solid nonetheless.
The Angels' lineup would be more impacted than ours would by adding Giambi. So, basically, I disagree that his trade value is below his value.
hardrain
05-22-07, 12:07 PM
We would need more than just Figgins. Would have to be Molina and Kotchman too.
Could we bundle the guys we get from Giambi and give some of our own for Tex?
yankeebot
05-22-07, 12:08 PM
We would need more than just Figgins. Would have to be Molina and Kotchman too.
Hang on. This has deteriorated to Giambi for Figgins? :lol:
In Mo I Trust
05-22-07, 12:09 PM
I'd actually disagree that his trade value is less.
The Angels have significant need for a big bopper. In fact, Giambi would likely be MORE valuable to them, regardless of park dimensions, due to the effect he'd have on pitchers going after Vlad right before him. The Yankees can slot in any number of feared hitters to protect ARod--not AS feared, sure, but solid nonetheless.
The Angels' lineup would be more impacted than ours would by adding Giambi. So, basically, I disagree that his trade value is below his value.
IMO the problem is that after this year Jason is due either $26 million for one year (21+the buyout) or about $44 million for two years if the option is picked up. Given his injury history I don't see the Yankees getting enough value back to have the deal make sense.
uncalled for ....
Hence I said some comic relief. Are you going to do this with every post you don't find funny? Oh, that's every post written here right. I didn't know you're so sensitive.
I'd actually disagree that his trade value is less.
The Angels have significant need for a big bopper. In fact, Giambi would likely be MORE valuable to them, regardless of park dimensions, due to the effect he'd have on pitchers going after Vlad right before him. The Yankees can slot in any number of feared hitters to protect ARod--not AS feared, sure, but solid nonetheless.
The Angels' lineup would be more impacted than ours would by adding Giambi. So, basically, I disagree that his trade value is below his value.
I think our disagreement hinges on whether or not you or I think he's paid considerably more than he's worth where he is now. I do, and I'm guessing you don't. Unless we agree on that one, we're not likely to agree about anything that extends from that.
LA does have a need for more pop in their lineup, and Giambi would doubtless provide it, but the cost for that added pop is very high in my estimation, and it would cost them prospects or ML bodies besides. I don't think that's the way they'll go unless they can get a really big salary kickback.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 12:16 PM
I think our disagreement hinges on whether or not you or I think he's paid considerably more than he's worth where he is now. I do, and I'm guessing you don't. Unless we agree on that one, we're not likely to agree about anything that extends from that.
LA does have a need for more pop in their lineup, and Giambi would doubtless provide it, but the cost for that added pop is very high in my estimation, and it would cost them prospects or ML bodies besides. I don't think that's the way they'll go unless they can get a really big salary kickback.
The importance of contract size diminishes significantly inseason, as there aren't any free agents to go after where you can change the variable of contract.
The list of hitters that are as good as Giambi who are available has only one possible name on it right now. Jason himself, and we don't even know if he's actually available. Unless the Angels have alternatives against which to compare him, his contract (two years at the most) isn't nearly so important as it would be in the offseason.
Maybe you should start signing them "Washington Irving." Or "Irving Washington."
Just as soon as they start giving me posts to censor, I'm planning to do just that.
Until then, I think I'm going to start signing my posts like this:
I yearn for you tragically.
A.T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army
NewEraYanks2527
05-22-07, 12:20 PM
If Giambi goes then the #25 is open and Hughes likes numbers that end in 5, #25 would be good for him and then my #25 jersey becomes a Hughes jersey. GET IT DONE CASH!
If Giambi goes then the #25 is open and Hughes likes numbers that end in 5, #25 would be good for him and then my #25 jersey becomes a Hughes jersey. GET IT DONE CASH!
#6. Hughes should wear 6. #25 doesn't compare in sheer numerical power.
yankeebot
05-22-07, 12:23 PM
#6. Hughes should wear 6. #25 doesn't compare in sheer numerical power.
Joe Torre wears 6. I don't think he'll give it up.
hardrain
05-22-07, 12:25 PM
Hence I said some comic relief. Are you going to do this with every post you don't find funny? Oh, that's every post written here right. I didn't know you're so sensitive.
Probably just every post that is demonstrably derogatory against black folks.
NewEraYanks2527
05-22-07, 12:26 PM
Joe Torre wears 6. I don't think he'll give it up.
And he likes numbers that end in 5 and the other numbers that end in 5 prior to 25 are already retired. 6 might be retired too as Torre's number. #25 it is.
Joe Torre wears 6. I don't think he'll give it up.
Aw, crap. I looked up the numbers, but they didn't show Torre's, and I'd forgotten about him.
OK, then. I'm backing up to the next best choice: 31, the 3rd Mersenne Prime. Phelps is wearing it now, but he's probably less sentimental about it, no?
Probably just every post that is demonstrably derogatory against black folks.
And I was referring to the person not even hinting in anyway at the race. So you must be pulling stuff out of clouds.
MaximMan121
05-22-07, 12:34 PM
And I was referring to the person not even hinting in anyway at the race. So you must be pulling stuff out of clouds.
Yeah, I didn't see racism in that statement either. Unless hardrain is saying that the only reason they look alike is because they're both African American? Because I see the similar facial features too--regardless of race.
Some people are more sensitive than others.
The importance of contract size diminishes significantly inseason, as there aren't any free agents to go after where you can change the variable of contract.
The list of hitters that are as good as Giambi who are available has only one possible name on it right now. Jason himself, and we don't even know if he's actually available. Unless the Angels have alternatives against which to compare him, his contract (two years at the most) isn't nearly so important as it would be in the offseason.
Again, I agree that the Angels would benefit from having Giambi in the lineup. But I think the cost is too high for them, even if it's prorated this year. They've got enough highly-regarded minor league resources to pull off a deal that's more advantageous to them down the road: they can get someone cheaper and younger -- all they have to do is offer Brandon Wood.
Anyway, neither of us is Bill Stoneman, so I think we'll both just have to wait and see.
Metroidman
05-22-07, 12:42 PM
Again, I agree that the Angels would benefit from having Giambi in the lineup. But I think the cost is too high for them, even if it's prorated this year. They've got enough highly-regarded minor league resources to pull off a deal that's more advantageous to them down the road: they can get someone cheaper and younger -- all they have to do is offer Brandon Wood.
Anyway, neither of us is Bill Stoneman, so I think we'll both just have to wait and see.
Well I figured Yanks would pay 1/2 of his contract for the top prospects
I was thinking along Giambi + 3/4 of his contract for KRod and Weaver
Well I figured Yanks would pay 1/2 of his contract for the top prospects
I was thinking along Giambi + 3/4 of his contract for KRod and Weaver
I think Bill Stoneman would disagree with you about that. :)
Metroidman
05-22-07, 12:47 PM
I think Bill Stoneman would disagree with you about that. :)
Hey its reaching but who knows if they do it :P
I'd try to pry KRod though somehow
LeapsNbounds
05-22-07, 12:48 PM
Hang on. This has deteriorated to Giambi for Figgins? :lol:
I don't know we might have to throw in A-rod as well........ya know to balance out the trade ;)
This conversation is about as intelligent as trading a-rod. Yeah, because there is a wealth of 3rd basemen to replace him that can hit in the clean up spot........right.
To all of MLB, please don't do us any "favors" by offering to take our best players.
Giambi for Figgins..... :lol: what a "Figgin" joke! It is STILL a joke even with Kotchman and Molina.
siddiqi
05-22-07, 12:51 PM
I'd pay about 1/3 - 1/2 of Giambi's contract + his buyout for one of Aybar or Mathis along with Scot Shields
Metroidman
05-22-07, 12:56 PM
I don't know we might have to throw in A-rod as well........ya know to balance out the trade ;)
This conversation is about as intelligent as trading a-rod. Yeah, because there is a wealth of 3rd basemen to replace him that can hit in the clean up spot........right.
To all of MLB, please don't do us any "favors" by offering to take our best players.
Giambi for Figgins..... :lol: what a "Figgin" joke! It is STILL a joke even with Kotchman and Molina.
Hey we'll need Figgins whenever we play those damn Yankees. He might be a .190 hitter if we didn't play those Yankees a lot to help raise his average. Wait how many times will we play the Yanks a year? That'll help determine how valuable Figgins is to us
Hey we'll need Figgins whenever we play those damn Yankees. He might be a .190 hitter if we didn't play those Yankees a lot to help raise his average. Wait how many times will we play the Yanks a year? That'll help determine how valuable Figgins is to us
It seems like your team takes the same field as the Yankees almost every day!
Go for it!
hardrain
05-22-07, 12:59 PM
I still think this is much ado about nothing - I'd have to hear it from someone other than George King to believe it's a real possibility.
Game4Tino
05-22-07, 01:02 PM
I still think this is much ado about nothing - I'd have to hear it from someone other than George King to believe it's a real possibility.
Word.
No one is bailing Cashman out of Giambi's deal.
TEPLimey
05-22-07, 01:08 PM
Word.
No one is bailing Cashman out of Giambi's deal.
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.php?p=4143247&postcount=613
nycdoc999
05-22-07, 01:11 PM
And why in the world would they trade K-Rod?? They're trying to win!!
They'd probably want to get rid of their over-hyped prospects like Kotchman and McPherson....
No way this deal's happening.
yanksconstantino24
05-22-07, 01:14 PM
I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.
jimmykey2
05-22-07, 01:14 PM
Let's see...
1 - The Yankees still need Giambi, at least for this season.
2 - Giving him up for a collection of average players doesn't help the Yankees.
Let's see...
1 - The Yankees still need Giambi, at least for this season.
2 - Giving him up for a collection of average players doesn't help the Yankees.
Unless they're aching to reduce salary, which they are not. So, yeah.
This is exactly why I don't buy the "contract voiding" rumors. Even if they could, it wouldn't make sense for them.
Mangycur
05-22-07, 01:20 PM
I still think this is much ado about nothing - I'd have to hear it from someone other than George King to believe it's a real possibility.
Thank you.
TheTinoMobile
05-22-07, 01:22 PM
Giambi Farnsworth and a prospect or two for Francisco Rodriguez ;)
TEPLimey
05-22-07, 01:23 PM
Giambi Farnsworth and a prospect or two for Francisco Rodriguez ;)
I'll take "Things that would never happen in a million years," Alex.
nycdoc999
05-22-07, 01:23 PM
Why make that trade when Joe Nathan is a free agent at year's end?
Is closer our biggest need THIS season?
Edit: My mistake - didn't realize the Twins had a team option for 2008 at $6M.
Still, I don't think the Angels would consider dealing K-Rod if they're taking on Giambi's salary (even in part) b/c the purpose of doing so would be to try and win! And we can sign K-Rod as the closer for 2008 when he's a FA.
DiMaggio5CF
05-22-07, 01:47 PM
Here are my two cents on this potential deal.
The Yankees aren't going to get anything of value for Giambi unless they pay a significant portion of his contract. And if they're going to pay him anyway, I'm sure they'd rather pay him to play for them than for the Angels.
After all, the Yankees are still trying to win this season, and the Angels (who are also trying to win this year) aren't going to give them anything that will help achieve that goal.
Therefore, the Yankees probably only trade Giambi is if the package of prospects is phenominal, and I don't think the Angels' interest in Giambi is anywhere near that, even if the Yankees pick up almost the entire tab on Giambi.
The only other way the Yankees make this trade is if they're strictly looking for payroll relief to use that money to finance another trade that's on the table. In that situation, you'd basically be trading Giambi for whoever you get in the second deal, and whatever you get from the Angels would be considered a throw-in or would be used in that second trade.
So who is this mystery player? It might be Todd Helton. Helton appears to be on the block; and that lefty hitter with an OPB close to .500 is probably pretty attractive to the Yankees.
And now might be the time to strike. Boston had interest in Helton during the off-season, and he might be a trade that they revisit closer to the deadline, so completing this trade takes an option away from Boston. However, with both Kevin Youkilis and Mike Lowell playing so well for the Sox right now, they probably don't feel that they need Helton at this moment, and so they won't step in to drive the price higher for the Yankees.
If the Yankees do acquire Helton to play first base, they'd probably cut Mientkiewicz (Phelps is a better bat off the bench and a defensive replacement won't be needed for Helton) and put Melky Cabrera in the outfield, allowing Matsui and Damon some significant time as the DH.
Completing this kind of trade would be very difficult, especially when you're talking about moving two big contracts. The Yankees moving Giambi would be extremely difficult, and the Yankees aquiring Todd Helton would be at least as difficult. Put them together, with one contingent on the other, and it becomes extremely unlikely.
But other than pure salary relief, which I don't see the Yankees doing as they try to rebound this season (and with only one year left on Giambi's deal), or the Angels putting together a package of prospects that the Yankees can't refuse, which I don't see happening, this might be the only thing that makes sense, even if it's for someone other than Helton.
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 01:54 PM
We could get a lot of good players from Anaheim for Giambi.
But I don't think Giambi will waive his no-trade clause to go there, would he?
JL25and3
05-22-07, 01:55 PM
The importance of contract size diminishes significantly inseason, as there aren't any free agents to go after where you can change the variable of contract.
The list of hitters that are as good as Giambi who are available has only one possible name on it right now. Jason himself, and we don't even know if he's actually available. Unless the Angels have alternatives against which to compare him, his contract (two years at the most) isn't nearly so important as it would be in the offseason.But the importance of contract size re-enters the picture when there's another - huge - guaranteed year on the contract, and when the player (most likely) demands an extension in order to waive his NTC.
JavyVazquezIsSick
05-22-07, 01:57 PM
But the importance of contract size re-enters the picture when there's another - huge - guaranteed year on the contract, and when the player (most likely) demands an extension in order to waive his NTC.
Thats not always the case, look at Abreu for instance.
JeffWeaverFan
05-22-07, 03:31 PM
Not going to happen... Trading Giambi would most likely end up hurting our team for this year.
Casey37
05-22-07, 03:39 PM
We could get a lot of good players from Anaheim for Giambi.
But I don't think Giambi will waive his no-trade clause to go there, would he?
Well, considering he was born in West Covina, a suburb of LA and went to CSU - Long Beach, who knows.
BxBomber44
05-22-07, 03:46 PM
the yankees did have interest in young angels catcher Molina per a Yahoo article a few weeks ago, combine that with a young arm I'd love to see it ... but with the NTC and the recent comments made by Giambi surrounded by constant speculation... I can't see this going anywhere. Next yr. Jason is owed 21$ mill, so I don't understand why the Angels would want him. Unless the contract is in fact voided (which it wont be). In the end, this is merely another rumor.
Kulish29
05-22-07, 03:48 PM
We could get a lot of good players from Anaheim for Giambi.
With his contract and injury history? I doubt it.
Not going to happen... Trading Giambi would most likely end up hurting our team for this year.
Giambi (+cash) & Farnsworth FOR Molina, Figgins, Shields, and Kotchman.;)
Maris*61
05-22-07, 04:12 PM
I don't like a moving Giambi to the Angels. That could come back to bite us. I'd prefer we shipped him to a place like KC if we are going to eat his contract. The other option would be to try and use him to get Sexson from Seattle. At least Sexson, bad contract and all can play first and he is traditionally a second half player.
smckdwn989
05-22-07, 04:14 PM
I don't like a moving Giambi to the Angels. That could come back to bite us. I'd prefer we shipped him to a place like KC if we are going to eat his contract. The other option would be to try and use him to get Sexson from Seattle. At least Sexson, bad contract and all can play first and he is traditionally a second half player.
if that's the case why not just keep him?
imo, giambi isn't going anywhere, the yankees need him and i can see him carrying the yankees when he gets hot...
sexson is surely not the answer... he's feast or famine (k or HR)... giambi is a much better player than sexson
yankeefreak04
05-22-07, 04:15 PM
Here are my two cents on this potential deal.
Excellent post... Worth much more than two cents IMHO...
Yankeesfan811
05-22-07, 04:16 PM
unless it's giambi for lackey, i don't like this trade.
or for escobar.
NewEraYanks2527
05-22-07, 04:21 PM
unless it's giambi for lackey, i don't like this trade.
or for escobar.
Ok so if Anaheim said "Hey, K-Rod for Giambi straight up" you wouldn't like that deal? I might even do Shields for Giambi straight up.
nnysiny
05-22-07, 04:26 PM
Ok so if Anaheim said "Hey, K-Rod for Giambi straight up" you wouldn't like that deal? I might even do Shields for Giambi straight up.
easily
BroadwayBomber55
05-22-07, 04:27 PM
Ok so if Anaheim said "Hey, K-Rod for Giambi straight up" you wouldn't like that deal? I might even do Shields for Giambi straight up.
I'll take that.
SenatorKennedy
05-22-07, 04:37 PM
Let's be realistic, folks. While we'd all love to see K-Rod in our bullpen, a straight-up trade for Giambi won't cut it. In fact, I would guess that K-Rod is off-limits with the Angels not having a back up plan.
Why not go after Cabrera and starter (ie Escobar or Colon) for Giambi and Cano, and let the Angels eat the difference in contracts? The Angels have been looking for a way to get Brandon Wood to play short; they'd rid themselves of Cabrera's contract and open up the position with this deal. Torre could then shift Derek to 2nd and have Cabrera play short, solidifying the left-side defense. Plus, we gain the starter we desperately need, when someone else breaks their pinkie.
27IsNext
05-22-07, 04:40 PM
Giambi isn't waiving his clause. This is all a moot point.
BroadwayBomber55
05-22-07, 04:41 PM
Howie Mandel: Ok GM's Bill Stoneman and Dan O'Dowd. There's a three-way trade proposal.
Brian Cashman is willing to trade Jason Giambi and the Yankees paid 3/4 of his contract along with Luis Vizcaino to the Angels for Chone Figgins, Scot Shields, Jose Molina, Casey Kotchman, and a prospect. Then the Yankees send Kotchman, the prospect, starter Carl Pavano and reliever Mike Myers to the Rockies for Todd Helton.
So, Bill Stoneman and Dan O'Dowd, DEAL OR NO DEAL?
There's no way that Stoneman and O'Dowd will fall for this trap.
yankeeman61
05-22-07, 04:41 PM
Let's be realistic, folks. While we'd all love to see K-Rod in our bullpen, a straight-up trade for Giambi won't cut it. In fact, I would guess that K-Rod is off-limits with the Angels not having a back up plan.
Why not go after Cabrera and starter (ie Escobar or Colon) for Giambi and Cano, and let the Angels eat the difference in contracts? The Angels have been looking for a way to get Brandon Wood to play short; they'd rid themselves of Cabrera's contract and open up the position with this deal. Torre could then shift Derek to 2nd and have Cabrera play short, solidifying the left-side defense. Plus, we gain the starter we desperately need, when someone else breaks their pinkie.
If you're being realistic then how do you suggest Jeter moves to 2B when he didn't move to 3B for ARod? Just asking.
Also why on earth would you give up on Cano? Because of a rough start? And on top of that, there are at least 3 other pitchers on the Angels staff ahead of the ones you would get back.
primetime714
05-22-07, 04:42 PM
Unless the Angels offer us a player of some significance I don't see us trading Giambi in the middle of the year. We're going to need him if we want to make a run.
After the year by all means I'd love to shed the last year of that contract and spend that money elsewhere. Shedding Abreu's and Giambi's contracts could allow us to resituate our OF having Damon and Matsui split time in LF and at DH with 2 of the following filling CF and RF: Andruw Jones, Ichiro, and/or Aaron Rowand. That would give us a top flight defensive OF all of whom can hit well also. We could also probably get Kotchman in a Giambi trade. He would be a solid, young and cheap starting 1B. Although he is another lefty and is awful against left handed pitching so we'd probably have to keep around a guy like Phelps or someone else to play against lefties.
Game4Tino
05-22-07, 04:43 PM
Giambi isn't waiving his clause. This is all a moot point.
I agree, The Giambino ain't signing off on any of this. In fact, I've been thinking about this from another angle...
... anyone think maybe Giambi got wind of this talk and purposely spouted off to USA Today about the steroid situation. I mean, don't you think that this would be some kind of coincidence since he has been guarded about that situation for the past few years and all of a sudden, he's the Candid Man?
If we've made no progress in a month, I'd hear the Angels out. I mean, why not? I doubt Giambi would agree to a deal, but a team in that area would offer the best chance for him to.
A package around Mathis and Kotchman would be something work from. Outside of Adenhart or Weaver (neither of which we'd get for Giambi), I really have little interest in their starting pitchers.
Game4Tino
05-22-07, 04:53 PM
I just don't see any team giving up anything besides utility players, subpar pitchers or borderline prospects for Giambi. Let's face it folks, Giambi is a 34 year old admitted steroid abuser who gets randomly tested umpteen times per season. You can forget about him having any late career surge a la Barry Bonds, it ain't happenin' without performance enhancers. The guys legs are shot cause he's been carrying 40 extra pounds for the past 10 years. No one is giving up squat for Giambi and he is not going to waive his no clause, he likes the limelight too much and the Bronx is his last shot at that.
the yankees did have interest in young angels catcher Molina per a Yahoo article a few weeks ago, combine that with a young arm I'd love to see it ... but with the NTC and the recent comments made by Giambi surrounded by constant speculation... I can't see this going anywhere. Next yr. Jason is owed 21$ mill, so I don't understand why the Angels would want him. Unless the contract is in fact voided (which it wont be). In the end, this is merely another rumor.
Molina is 31. From my perspective, that's plenty young, but ...
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 05:05 PM
For argument's sake, let's say Giambi wants to go back out west, likes what he sees in the Angels, and waives his clause.
If you trade Giambi, you lose 100+ walks, 25+ home runs, 100+ RBI, a .250+ hitter (only because of the shift), an OBP of .413 and and sluggin percentage around .550. In other words, you lose a major part of the middle of your batting order.
Now I understand since coming to the Yankees he hasn't played nearly as well as he used to, he's still worth a lot more than people realize. Maybe he isn't worth all the money he's getting, but the money isn't a complete waste.
A reasonable trade would send 1B/DH Jason Giambi, LHP Mike Myers, SP Carl Pavano and maybe a few prospects to the Angels, which would be a big weight off the Yankees shoulders. Maybe even throw RHP Luis Vizcaino to the mix.
In exchange, we could get 1B/DH Shea Hillenbrand, who with regular playing time can hit 20 HRs, have an OBP of .420, a batting average of .285 and drive in 85 runs. Chone Figgins who can play all across the field can come, and I think we all know what he's worth. Then, if they really want Giambi, then they'll send Darren Oliver.
All in all, I think we gain a lot in Figgins, one of my favorite ball players, a decent 1B to split time with Doug Mienkiewicz, and money to finance our future. I wouldn't be totally devastated if we made the deal, but I wouldn't be cheering either.
I doubt Jason Giambi will waive his clause though, and I doubt the Yankees will get really serious unless they're positively blown away by a deal. And most of the people that would blow the Yankees away (Scot Shields, Kotchman, Figgins) are considered off-limits.
I just don't see any team giving up anything besides utility players, subpar pitchers or borderline prospects for Giambi. Let's face it folks, Giambi is a 34 year old admitted steroid abuser who gets randomly tested umpteen times per season. You can forget about him having any late career surge a la Barry Bonds, it ain't happenin' without performance enhancers. The guys legs are shot cause he's been carrying 40 extra pounds for the past 10 years. No one is giving up squat for Giambi and he is not going to waive his no clause, he likes the limelight too much and the Bronx is his last shot at that.
He's 36.
CallOfTheCrow
05-22-07, 05:11 PM
For argument's sake, let's say Giambi wants to go back out west, likes what he sees in the Angels, and waives his clause.
If you trade Giambi, you lose 100+ walks, 25+ home runs, 100+ RBI, a .250+ hitter (only because of the shift), an OBP of .413 and and sluggin percentage around .550. In other words, you lose a major part of the middle of your batting order.
Now I understand since coming to the Yankees he hasn't played nearly as well as he used to, he's still worth a lot more than people realize. Maybe he isn't worth all the money he's getting, but the money isn't a complete waste.
A reasonable trade would send 1B/DH Jason Giambi, LHP Mike Myers, SP Carl Pavano and maybe a few prospects to the Angels, which would be a big weight off the Yankees shoulders. Maybe even throw RHP Luis Vizcaino to the mix.
In exchange, we could get 1B/DH Shea Hillenbrand, who with regular playing time can hit 20 HRs, have an OBP of .420, a batting average of .285 and drive in 85 runs. Chone Figgins who can play all across the field can come, and I think we all know what he's worth. Then, if they really want Giambi, then they'll send Darren Oliver.
All in all, I think we gain a lot in Figgins, one of my favorite ball players, a decent 1B to split time with Doug Mienkiewicz, and money to finance our future. I wouldn't be totally devastated if we made the deal, but I wouldn't be cheering either.
I doubt Jason Giambi will waive his clause though, and I doubt the Yankees will get really serious unless they're positively blown away by a deal. And most of the people that would blow the Yankees away (Scot Shields, Kotchman, Figgins) are considered off-limits.
That would be awful. Next time the Angels GM should use a gun during a robbery.
In Mo I Trust
05-22-07, 05:12 PM
In exchange, we could get 1B/DH Shea Hillenbrand, who with regular playing time can hit 20 HRs, have an OBP of .420, a batting average of .285 and drive in 85 runs.
FYI Hillenbrand's lifetime OBP is .322.
CallOfTheCrow
05-22-07, 05:13 PM
thats a terrible deal without throwing in prospects.
...
A reasonable trade would send 1B/DH Jason Giambi, LHP Mike Myers, SP Carl Pavano and maybe a few prospects to the Angels, which would be a big weight off the Yankees shoulders. Maybe even throw RHP Luis Vizcaino to the mix.
In exchange, we could get 1B/DH Shea Hillenbrand, who with regular playing time can hit 20 HRs, have an OBP of .420, a batting average of .285 and drive in 85 runs. Chone Figgins who can play all across the field can come, and I think we all know what he's worth. Then, if they really want Giambi, then they'll send Darren Oliver.
Ignoring the fact that you're including Pavano in that proposal as though he were some kind of actual baseball player and that this is another "everybody is dying to trade for our overpaid salary burdens and trash" trade suggestion, ...
Why on earth would you want Shea Hillenbrand?? You mean the manager punchin', never take a walkin', .322 lifetime OBPn', clubhouse cancer makin' Shea Hillenbrand? That one? And you're thinking regular at-bats will suddenly make him into an on-base machine?? The same guy who is currently carrying an OBP of .252??
Feel your forehead. Do you have a temperature?
yankswn23
05-22-07, 05:18 PM
so if it happens, we traded away our best dh prospect in sheffield, who do we get to dh? we prob get helton to replace him then trade prospects or other players in the deal for a dh not sure of the best prospects for that position now...
brosiusbuddy
05-22-07, 05:20 PM
Let's be realistic, folks. While we'd all love to see K-Rod in our bullpen, a straight-up trade for Giambi won't cut it. In fact, I would guess that K-Rod is off-limits with the Angels not having a back up plan.
Why nogo after Cabrera and starter (ie Escobar or Colon) for Giambi and Canot , and let the Angels eat the difference in contracts? The Angels have been looking for a way to get Brandon Wood to play short; they'd rid themselves of Cabrera's contract and open up the position with this deal. Torre could then shift Derek to 2nd and have Cabrera play short, solidifying the left-side defense. Plus, we gain the starter we desperately need, when someone else breaks their pinkie.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ok so we give up Cano who has been nothing short of spectacular prior to his slow start this year and Giambi who is a 30+ homer DH for a decent hitting SS and a starter?
Why its unrealistic for New York.
a) Who plays DH now? If you put Damon, Matsui or Abreu there, our bench becomes extremely thin with Melky in the outfield. Phelps? HA
b) As another poster said, Jeter would move to third so that the arguably greatest shortstop of all time could play there, but he'd move to second for Orlando Cabrera? Hmm.
c) Why do we so desperately need a starter? Does the name Roger Clemens ring a bell? Our current starters, in case you haven't noticed, have actually been pitching pretty darn well.
Why its unrealistic for Anaheim
a) What will they do with Cano once Kendrick returns?
b) What good does it do to bolster the offense if they lose out on one of those starters; both of whom have been very good for them this year.
c) Cano's salary won't be a problem, but why would LA just go ahead and eat Giambi's HUGE contract?
If New York were going to explore trading Giambi, they should explore options that help remedy their weaknesses, not enhance their strengths. Despite a skid as of late, our offense is still top caliber. We don't need Orlando Cabrera because he's not nearly the hitter Cano is. We don't need Colon. He's fat, injury prone and overhyped. We don't need Escobar. He's playing above his level right now and I doubt he maintains a sub-3.00 ERA all year. Theres a reason the A's starters are pitching well... they play in a division where their opponents have had struggling offenses.
That being said, if Giambi is traded I would like to see a return of some bullpen arms, bench depth or the always useful prospects. However. I doubt Giambi is going anywhere.
brosiusbuddy
05-22-07, 05:22 PM
Molina is 31. From my perspective, that's plenty young, but ...
Your perspective is the everyday world. In baseball, 31 is over the hill for a catcher. Especially one who isn't in the best shape.
A reasonable trade would send 1B/DH Jason Giambi, LHP Mike Myers, SP Carl Pavano and maybe a few prospects to the Angels, which would be a big weight off the Yankees shoulders. Maybe even throw RHP Luis Vizcaino to the mix.
In exchange, we could get 1B/DH Shea Hillenbrand, who with regular playing time can hit 20 HRs, have an OBP of .420, a batting average of .285 and drive in 85 runs. Chone Figgins who can play all across the field can come, and I think we all know what he's worth. Then, if they really want Giambi, then they'll send Darren Oliver.
What flavor Kool Aid are ya drinkin? I want some too.
CallOfTheCrow
05-22-07, 05:27 PM
if were really lucky we get darren oliver? Cmon now.
wood or kendrick and have them move to 1st base.....it won't happen. Maybe Giambi/Eric Duncan/one of our mid level pitching prospects for wood or kendrick and a bench guy
But I wouldn't do this anyway, Giambi is untradeable if I'm the GM unless I get knocked over with a offer. One of the, if not THE best eye in baseball, even if he's slumping he's getting on base, and with this lineup thats all you need, we got enough guys to knock in runs when someones having a down stretch. For you all to be Yankee fans most of you are quick to ship someone out, lack of loyalty among the new age yank fans i suppose
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 05:35 PM
Ignoring the fact that you're including Pavano in that proposal as though he were some kind of actual baseball player and that this is another "everybody is dying to trade for our overpaid salary burdens and trash" trade suggestion, ...
Why on earth would you want Shea Hillenbrand?? You mean the manager punchin', never take a walkin', .322 lifetime OBPn', clubhouse cancer makin' Shea Hillenbrand? That one? And you're thinking regular at-bats will suddenly make him into an on-base machine?? The same guy who is currently carrying an OBP of .252??
Feel your forehead. Do you have a temperature?
I didn't say in my post that I wanted Shea Hillenbrand. I said that I could see the Angels offering him in a trade.
CallOfTheCrow
05-22-07, 05:36 PM
You said it would be a reasonable trade.
I didn't say in my post that I wanted Shea Hillenbrand. I said that I could see the Angels offering him in a trade.
But you did say the Hillenbrand "with regular playing time can hit 20 HRs, have an OBP of .420, a batting average of .285 and drive in 85 runs" part, right?
That's a lot like saying that Mt. Everest, if we'd only give it half a chance, has the potential to be an excellent pasture.
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 05:39 PM
I didn't say it was a reasonable trade I liked.
A trade I'd like would send Chone Figgins, Casey Kotchman and Scot Shields our way.
But we all know that isn't happening.
Let's be realistic, folks. While we'd all love to see K-Rod in our bullpen, a straight-up trade for Giambi won't cut it. In fact, I would guess that K-Rod is off-limits with the Angels not having a back up plan.
Why not go after Cabrera and starter (ie Escobar or Colon) for Giambi and Cano, and let the Angels eat the difference in contracts? The Angels have been looking for a way to get Brandon Wood to play short; they'd rid themselves of Cabrera's contract and open up the position with this deal. Torre could then shift Derek to 2nd and have Cabrera play short, solidifying the left-side defense. Plus, we gain the starter we desperately need, when someone else breaks their pinkie.
ROFL, lets do be realistic.
Jeter isn't moving
Cabrera isn't = to giambi or cano
assuming all our starters are healthy
clemens
pavano
mussina
hughes
clippard
pettitte
wang
igawa
sanchez
rasner
karstens
do we really need another expensive injury risk in colon or escobar to go in our rotation? Neither of whom are overly impressive the past year or two.
Your gonna give up 35 HR's and arguably the best OBP guy in the AL and a 2B that has one of the heighest ceilings of anyone in baseball for that, ROFL??
are you even being serious?
CallOfTheCrow
05-22-07, 05:41 PM
but by saying its reasonable, you're saying it's almost an even swap & both sides come out relatively happy with the deal. There is absolutely nothing reasonable about it.
yankeeman61
05-22-07, 05:43 PM
If there was a way to unload Giambi's contract at his age, salary, injury problems, baggage and one dimensional contributions by all means the Yankees should do it. I can't believe the Angels would actually offer something worth trading for, but if Moreno is desperate or drunk enough to offer either Shields or Santana and Kotchman then you don't even have anything to think about IMO at least for a long term deal. Unfortunately that one dimension of hitting wouldn't be replaced for this year. On paper going into the season the offense looked like it could take a hit or two but we've seen the struggle so far. It sucks, but the Yanks have only themselves to blame for Giambi. They should have re-signed Tino at the time and focused on getting pitching instead so now they are living with that expensive mistake. Of course the Giambi signing looks like a stroke of genius compared to Carl Pav.....ah never mind.
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 05:44 PM
You guys missed the entire point of my post.
I was trying to show how it would be impossible to win if you trade Jason Giambi to the Angels.
Let's take it easy here.
27IsNext
05-22-07, 05:54 PM
This offseason, Cashman asked A-Rod and Giambi if either of them would waive their respective NTCs. They both said no.
Next.
You guys missed the entire point of my post.
I was trying to show how it would be impossible to win if you trade Jason Giambi to the Angels.
Let's take it easy here.
OK, then. You had me fooled with that .420 OBP comment. I'm going to chalk that up to temporary insanity and leave it there.
Chick_Fewster
05-22-07, 06:23 PM
Here are my two cents on this potential deal.
The Yankees aren't going to get anything of value for Giambi unless they pay a significant portion of his contract. And if they're going to pay him anyway, I'm sure they'd rather pay him to play for them than for the Angels.
After all, the Yankees are still trying to win this season, and the Angels (who are also trying to win this year) aren't going to give them anything that will help achieve that goal.
Therefore, the Yankees probably only trade Giambi is if the package of prospects is phenominal, and I don't think the Angels' interest in Giambi is anywhere near that, even if the Yankees pick up almost the entire tab on Giambi.
The only other way the Yankees make this trade is if they're strictly looking for payroll relief to use that money to finance another trade that's on the table. In that situation, you'd basically be trading Giambi for whoever you get in the second deal, and whatever you get from the Angels would be considered a throw-in or would be used in that second trade.
So who is this mystery player? It might be Todd Helton. Helton appears to be on the block; and that lefty hitter with an OPB close to .500 is probably pretty attractive to the Yankees.
And now might be the time to strike. Boston had interest in Helton during the off-season, and he might be a trade that they revisit closer to the deadline, so completing this trade takes an option away from Boston. However, with both Kevin Youkilis and Mike Lowell playing so well for the Sox right now, they probably don't feel that they need Helton at this moment, and so they won't step in to drive the price higher for the Yankees.
If the Yankees do acquire Helton to play first base, they'd probably cut Mientkiewicz (Phelps is a better bat off the bench and a defensive replacement won't be needed for Helton) and put Melky Cabrera in the outfield, allowing Matsui and Damon some significant time as the DH.
Completing this kind of trade would be very difficult, especially when you're talking about moving two big contracts. The Yankees moving Giambi would be extremely difficult, and the Yankees aquiring Todd Helton would be at least as difficult. Put them together, with one contingent on the other, and it becomes extremely unlikely.
But other than pure salary relief, which I don't see the Yankees doing as they try to rebound this season (and with only one year left on Giambi's deal), or the Angels putting together a package of prospects that the Yankees can't refuse, which I don't see happening, this might be the only thing that makes sense, even if it's for someone other than Helton. Excellent post... impressive thinking it all the way through. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Matsui55
05-22-07, 07:54 PM
I see several likely things here.
First, it was likely that the Yanks initiated the talks- but probably only after something Giambi said. Does anyone remember how the RJ trade came about- by something RJ said, even though he reportedly claimed he would block all trades with his no-trade clause.
Keep in mind that the Angels are closest to Giambi's home and favorite place. He's not really a NY type of guy, and would likely face less scrutiny in LA.
Second, the Yanks would be interested for a simple reason- payroll dumping. Remember that they took less than value for RJ just to move the salary. Giambi isn't worth $20M per (this year and next, plus a $5M buyout), so the Yanks don't want to pay that.
Third, despite the veteran names that King is throwing about, I don't think the Yanks are looking at vets in return, unless the Angels insist on the Yanks taking one back.
Were I a betting man, I think the Yanks would be looking at the Angels young bats- especially at areas the Yanks have no 2008 depth in. IMO, the Yanks would try to do a Sheffield style deal, rather than an RJ deal- take he best prospects rather than the most prospects- simply because they will be targetting specific players.
IMO- the main targets would likely be: C Jeff Mathis and 3B Brandon Wood. Quite simply- Mathis is a man blocked at the big league level (though it is his own fault for not hitting in his opportunity last year) and needs to get out of LA. He is, however, and outstanding defensive C, who can hit with some power (though not at Posada's level). Mathis would allow the Yanks to bring Posada back for another year, in the same manner as Girardi trained Posada- train the young C to play in the bigs (part time) before leaving. Given the C situation in LA, I don't think the Angels would fight to keep him.
Wood is a more difficult target- obviously being their top player. However, he does have some enormous holes in his swing that are easily exploitable right now. Unless and until he gets them fixed, he's likely more like Branyon at 3B than he is ARod. The Yanks would likely have to add a player to the deal to get the Angels to include Wood. However, there is an additional advantage to including him in a deal this year for the Angels.
ARod- Boras does exhaustive studies of a team's prospects who play the same position as his clients before he offers them to a team. If Boras sees a major prospect at 3B, the red flag would go up. Even if ARod signed long term with the Angels (as he WILL opt out this winter- don't believe the hype that he won't), Boras knows that the hot young prospect could bump ARod to DH, 1B or the OF- which would not be in ARod's best interests. By trading Wood, the Angels would have nothing threatening ARod this winter at 3B.
Final point- I think the Yanks have concluded that Giambi is a bad fit at DH, because he really can't play 1B or anywhere else. With the age and physical condition of Matsui and Damon, they both need days at DH- which are denied them by Giambi's presence. If Giambi were moved, even in season, they could rotate the two of them at DH- and use Cabrera to fill in for the other. Granted, that takes some punch out of the offense- but Giambi isn't really the great threat he once was anyway.
This is a long shot deal for the Yanks, complicated by the steriod issue (do the Angels really want that headache, as they can see close-up the Bonds issue). However, as the teams approach the trade deadline, there may be an opportunity to get it done.
Keep in mind that the Giambi comments have given the Yanks some ammo- by admitting steroid use, it may give them grounds to at least threaten punishment, if not void his deal. It is not a strong case, but MLB can be the "heavy" for the Yanks by using the Mitchell investigation to force him to at least consider the threat is real.
The face-saving measure for all sides is a trade. Giambi gets out of NY, and likely away from all threats to his contract and money, and away from the NY media. The Yanks move an unnecessary piece for at least some value. The Angels get some protection for Vlad in the lineup.
It will be a tough deal to pull off- the Yanks will likely have to pay the $5M buyout, pay half of the remainder of this year's deal (which at the halfway point of the season wouldn't be bad- $5M or so), will have to pay him something (like the $1.5M Abreu got from the Phills for waiving his no-trade last year), AND will likely have to eat half of next year's deal ($10M) just to get the Angels to talk.
After that, they have to agree to players. I think Mathis might be the Yanks prime target. They should be able to get him. They would likely ask about Wood as well. Wood would probably mean the Yanks have to add a player to the deal- maybe one or two of their top young starters (keep in mind that Colon is a FA this winter, and with Santana and some of the young pitchers faltering, they may need ready young arms now).
For example, if the Yanks offered Giambi (with the financial agreements above and Ian Kennedy, and maybe Clippard (or Chase Wright or Marquez) for Mathis and Wood, would the Angels buy into it? It might be tough for them, but it would make sense.
TheInfallibleOne
05-22-07, 08:10 PM
They take him, they pay all his salary, we get top prospects and they have to take on Pavano and the rest of his deal. Make it happen Cash... ( thats such a dream that my boxers might get wet lmao)
27IsNext
05-22-07, 08:55 PM
A-Rod isn't opting out. Giambi isn't waiving the clause.
Next.
montrealer
05-22-07, 08:58 PM
Just saw a flock of pigs fly over my house..............
Proctor's Orders
05-22-07, 08:59 PM
He was right about more things than most NY reporters this offseason.
Every blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while
Matsui55
05-22-07, 09:10 PM
A-Rod isn't opting out. Giambi isn't waiving the clause.
Next.
Dream on- ARod is GONE after this season. Boras doesn't give those away- and the Yanks aren't going to pay $20M per when ARod is 35- so no extension is coming either.
Giambi refusing the waive his no-trade- that is debatable- after all, he already refused to waive it once (when Cashman asked this past winter).
The Q Bomb
05-22-07, 09:12 PM
Just make sure he takes his "orthotics" with him! Jeez I'm sick of hearing about those as if they were the Holy Grail! What the heck is an orthotic anyway?
27IsNext
05-22-07, 09:14 PM
Dream on- ARod is GONE after this season. Boras doesn't give those away- and the Yanks aren't going to pay $20M per when ARod is 35- so no extension is coming either.
Giambi refusing the waive his no-trade- that is debatable- after all, he already refused to waive it once (when Cashman asked this past winter).
Heh. It seems you need to dream on. As much as you dislike the guy, A-Rod's here to stay. The Yankees will realize that they need his big righty bat in the lineup and will make sure he doesn't opt out. With the Texas money in consideration, it's extension city.
No, it really isn't debatable. If he wouldn't do it this offseason, he won't do it now.
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 09:17 PM
If the Yankees don't find success this year, then I would expect to see A-Rod opting out and then the Yankees shopping Abreu and Giambi.
A-Rod isn't opting out. Giambi isn't waiving the clause.
Next.
A-Rod's agent is Scott Boras (he is opting out if it means he gets more money).
The Yankees are looking to void Giambi's contract. No contract, no No Trade Clause.
Next
SportzStooge007
05-22-07, 09:22 PM
Yeah, a lot of guys will see their heads rolling if the Yankees continue their demise.
To name a few: Torre, Cashman (possibly), Johnny Damon, Bobby Abreu, Jason Giambi, and Alex Rodriguez, though he might opt out before the Yankees have a chance to show their displeasure with him.
You know what, I wouldn't mind too much if the Yankees tore down the entire team except for the pitching and Jeter, Cano, Matsui and Cabrera. IF they don't snap out of it.
The Q Bomb
05-22-07, 09:22 PM
Boras is A-Rod's agent - not his mother. A-Rod will decide what he wants to do and advise Boras to act accordingly.
Why would The Yankees have grounds or try to find grounds to void Giambi's contract based on admitted steroid use from years ago? Or did he admit he's still using steroids? They may certainly try to trade him but I don't see how they can even consider messing with his contract over the steroid issue.
I wanted The Yanks to pursue a trade with Tampa Bay back in 2003 - Giambi (and payment of a portion of his contract) for Carl Crawford. That would have been perfect but alas, I was not the G.M. then any more than I am now.
27IsNext
05-22-07, 09:22 PM
A-Rod's agent is Scott Boras (he is opting out if it means he gets more money).
The Yankees are looking to void Giambi's contract. No contract, no No Trade Clause.
Next
A-Rod's wife and kid love NY. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. If daddy ain't happy, who cares?
Btw, he isn't getting more money on the market that what he's making now. Nobody's giving him $25 million a year. If the Yankees are smart, they offer an extension, and he's here until his late 30s.
No chance in hades do they actually void it. No chance whatsoever.
Spiker101
05-22-07, 09:25 PM
A-Rod's wife and kid love NY. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. If daddy ain't happy, who cares?
Btw, he isn't getting more money on the market that what he's making now. Nobody's giving him $25 million a year. If the Yankees are smart, they offer an extension, and he's here until his late 30s.
No chance in hades do they actually void it. No chance whatsoever.
Yeah, that's right. I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding that the only person who would benefit from ARod's opting out is Tom Hicks. It ain't gonna happen.
27IsNext
05-22-07, 09:28 PM
Yeah, that's right. I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding that the only person who would benefit from ARod's opting out is Tom Hicks. It ain't gonna happen.
People don't like A-Rod because he wasn't on the late '90s teams and/or doesn't resemble anyone ON the late '90s teams. Or because he isn't "clutch." Consequently, they want to believe it.
Or, they're members of the media, which need a story.
For example, if the Yanks offered Giambi (with the financial agreements above and Ian Kennedy, and maybe Clippard (or Chase Wright or Marquez) for Mathis and Wood, would the Angels buy into it? It might be tough for them, but it would make sense.
I don't want to quote your entire post since it will get redundant and it's very long .But it was very informative and I always like to hear what top prospects the Yanks are getting in exchange for our players.
One thing I disagree on you is A-Rod. He will stay partly because his wife is a huge influence.
As for Clippard I like what I saw in him and based on some scouting reports he has command and excellent control, two things that will help his longevity as he gets older and the velocity on his fastball gets even lower. I hope the Yanks don't trade him but I doubt the Angels would want Wright either.
Boras is A-Rod's agent - not his mother. A-Rod will decide what he wants to do and advise Boras to act accordingly.
Why would The Yankees have grounds or try to find grounds to void Giambi's contract based on admitted steroid use from years ago? Or did he admit he's still using steroids? They may certainly try to trade him but I don't see how they can even consider messing with his contract over the steroid issue.
I wanted The Yanks to pursue a trade with Tampa Bay back in 2003 - Giambi (and payment of a portion of his contract) for Carl Crawford. That would have been perfect but alas, I was not the G.M. then any more than I am now.
Yes, and Scott Boras is not your typical agent. You could be right, but I have the feeling A-Rod will opt out if he thinks he can get more moola from the Yankees. He would do so since Boras asked to re-negotiate prior to this season and the Yankees said no.
WebsterMulligan
05-22-07, 09:39 PM
Trade him NOW!!!
Yes, and Scott Boras is not your typical agent. You could be right, but I have the feeling A-Rod will opt out if he thinks he can get more moola from the Yankees. He would do so since Boras asked to re-negotiate prior to this season and the Yankees said no.Where did you hear about Boras asking to re-negotiate before the season, Link?
The Q Bomb
05-22-07, 09:52 PM
Yes, and Scott Boras is not your typical agent. You could be right, but I have the feeling A-Rod will opt out if he thinks he can get more moola from the Yankees. He would do so since Boras asked to re-negotiate prior to this season and the Yankees said no. I'm not saying A-Rod won't opt out (although I hope he doesn't) - I'm just saying that whatever he does will be what he wants to do and what he tells Boras what to do - not the other way around.
ericns1
05-22-07, 09:55 PM
Giambi will be here until after 08 when his contract ends
Michaels07
05-22-07, 10:03 PM
Dream on- ARod is GONE after this season. Boras doesn't give those away- and the Yanks aren't going to pay $20M per when ARod is 35- so no extension is coming either.
Giambi refusing the waive his no-trade- that is debatable- after all, he already refused to waive it once (when Cashman asked this past winter).
The Yankee Empire is in decline.:mad:
Where did you hear about Boras asking to re-negotiate before the season, Link?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/03/21/scoop.wednesday/index.html
The Yankee Empire is in decline.:mad:
Dude, its fallen. But it has before and risen everytime to greater and greater heights.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/03/21/scoop.wednesday/index.htmlThanks for the link but unless I"m missing something the article never states that Boras asked to re-nogotiate prior to the season. It states that Cashman would not give A-rod an extension just to keep him from opting out.
I'll say it again. A-Rod is not opting out.
If he does, $27M of Tom Hicks' money goes back into Tom Hicks' pocket instead of A-Rod's. Neither A-Rod nor Boras will let that happen.
Twenty.
Seven.
Million.
How can anyone think otherwise?
27IsNext
05-22-07, 10:17 PM
I'll say it again. A-Rod is not opting out.
If he does, $27M of Tom Hicks' money goes back into Tom Hicks' pocket instead of A-Rod's. Neither A-Rod nor Boras will let that happen.
Twenty.
Seven.
Million.
How can anyone think otherwise?
Like I said, they either think he isn't "clutch" enough, or he wasn't part of the late '90s dynasty or doesn't resemble anyone on it. They want to believe he will.
Moving Giambi for a young catcher and /or 3rd baseman would be wise. It gives flexibilty at 1b, gives Posada a backup who could eventually take over. It even prolongs Posada as a potential 1b or dh.
Getting a young 3rd bsaeman would give backup when ARod walks..
Even with a NTC, Giambi would consider since he gets closer to home and a chance to be in the playoffs. Money will always solved those NTC.
goin for 27
05-22-07, 10:21 PM
I'll say it again. A-Rod is not opting out.
If he does, $27M of Tom Hicks' money goes back into Tom Hicks' pocket instead of A-Rod's. Neither A-Rod nor Boras will let that happen.
Twenty.
Seven.
Million.
How can anyone think otherwise?
Does Boras really care where the money is coming from?
Boras is going to calculate what a huge long term deal will yield, then weigh against possible market contraction, and potential for decline/injury.
If the long term deal will make his client more money, and coupled with security, (if he stays healthy through this year) he will opt out. If not, he will play on.
I think he avoids opting out by holding the Yanks hostage for an extension. This allows him to keep the current contract in place, save the Yanks money for the remainder, and get a big payday moving forward. If the Yanks won't do that, he opts out....
27IsNext
05-22-07, 10:22 PM
Does Boras really care where the money is coming from?
Boras is going to calculate what a huge long term deal will yield, then weigh against possible market contraction, and potential for decline/injury.
If the long term deal will make his client more money, and coupled with security, (if he stays healthy through this year) he will opt out. If not, he will play on.
I think he avoids opting out by holding the Yanks hostage for an extension. This allows him to keep the current contract in place, save the Yanks money for the remainder, and get a big payday moving forward. If the Yanks won't do that, he opts out....
But that's the thing: It won't make A-Rod more money long-term. Nobody's paying him $25 million a year.
But that's the thing: It won't make A-Rod more money long-term. Nobody's paying him $25 million a year.[/quote]
It's not the $25 mil a year that's important, it 's the number of years. Add 6 or 7 yrs and gives him security.
Does Boras really care where the money is coming from?
Boras is going to calculate what a huge long term deal will yield, then weigh against possible market contraction, and potential for decline/injury.
If the long term deal will make his client more money, and coupled with security, (if he stays healthy through this year) he will opt out. If not, he will play on.
I think he avoids opting out by holding the Yanks hostage for an extension. This allows him to keep the current contract in place, save the Yanks money for the remainder, and get a big payday moving forward. If the Yanks won't do that, he opts out....
No, he doesn't care where the money is coming from, but he DOES know where this $27M is coming from and he knows it's already in the bank if the contract isn't terminated.
That $27M buys considerable financial breathing room for Cashman that allows him to stretch more in his extension offer than anyone else will be able to stretch once A-Rod opts out and becomes a free agent. Boras knows this. He knows that Cashman's best offer with the $27M advantage is likely to be better than anything he could get from anyone else after A-Rod is free of the contract obligation.
Now, if you're saying that Cashman doesn't want to keep A-Rod beyond this year, well ... I can't see it. But if that's true, then we'll know soon enough. If Cashman doesn't make a strong (or any) extension offer, it will be because he has decided it's time for the A-Rod era to be over. But he likely won't even get a draft pick in compensation, so ... who's going to be the big bat next year?
EDIT: I think I just made a case against someone else's argument here. Sorry, I didn't read your post thoroughly enough before responding.
jimmykey2
05-22-07, 10:31 PM
But that's the thing: It won't make A-Rod more money long-term. Nobody's paying him $25 million a year.
Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a team like San Francisco offer him the most money. The choice for Alex will be the most money versus a lot of money and the chance to win each year with the Yanks.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.7 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
0