View Full Version : Trade Matsui?
AndThenThereWasTino
04-22-07, 03:36 AM
I've been hearing a lot of people saying that we should trade Matsui for pitching and just keep Melky in left and have Kevin Thompson as the backup outfielder. While I don't agree with that because I think it would be a panic move to injuries so early in the season, what does everybody else think? Who do you think we could get in return? It's no secret that we don't have the best rotation in the world even with all our rotation healthy. Out of Wang-Pettitte-Moose-Pavano-Igawa who would you take out of the rotation if we did aquire a pitcher?
Jerkface
04-22-07, 03:40 AM
Trade Melky.
Oh wait he has no value because he is sucking.
Matsui has gotten progressively better at hitting each season, has power potential in every at bat, and is a solid contributor .290/20hr/100 rbi guy.
If we are going to trade anyone in our outfield I'd rather trade Damon, sign Ichiro, and play Matsui 80 games at DH.
Centerhero
04-22-07, 04:04 AM
Have some respect, Matsui has played well for us. Oh wait, I just thought I saw him bobble a fly ball in the outfield, wow, saved by Damon. :D
Trade Melky.
Oh wait he has no value because he is sucking.
Matsui has gotten progressively better at hitting each season, has power potential in every at bat, and is a solid contributor .290/20hr/100 rbi guy.
If we are going to trade anyone in our outfield I'd rather trade Damon, sign Ichiro, and play Matsui 80 games at DH.
Doesn't make sense. Melky is NOT ready. Last year was a breakout year and so far he hasn't been that great. I am disappointed so far. His bat is off (pressing too much and not showing patience), his glove needs improvement, and he is not a power hitter.
Jerkface is correct about Matsui.
Want to make a move to improve our team? Fire Marty Miller ASAP. He's our new trainer and he is putting all our players on DL. Matsui has a hamy (stretching).
Get Clemens and bring up Hughes NOW.
Bucky
ManilaYankee
04-22-07, 06:12 AM
The guy signed a contract which has a no-trade clause, remember?
And think about the big bucks he's bringing in from Japan, remember?
There's no way I think that the Yanks will be pressing for a Matsui trade and I don't think Matsui will ever want out of the Yankees. This is just my humble opinion.
YankeePride1967
04-22-07, 06:24 AM
He isn't being traded for reasons that even transcend the field.
yankeebot
04-22-07, 06:27 AM
I understand the reasons that make trading him unlikely but I hope he is amenable to a position change in the near future.
I Heart Jeter
04-22-07, 06:44 AM
Matsui is not the problem here and our line-up in significantly weaker without him, especially with Giambi being so streaky
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 08:48 AM
Doesn't make sense. Melky is NOT ready. Last year was a breakout year and so far he hasn't been that great. I am disappointed so far. His bat is off (pressing too much and not showing patience), his glove needs improvement, and he is not a power hitter.
Jerkface is correct about Matsui.
Want to make a move to improve our team? Fire Marty Miller ASAP. He's our new trainer and he is putting all our players on DL. Matsui has a hamy (stretching).
Get Clemens and bring up Hughes NOW.
Bucky
LOL, why does Melky's glove need improvement? On Melky's worst day, he's still twice the fielder Matsui is.
Every trade can't be a steal for the Yankees. Matsui is very good and it would be hard to swallow at first if he were traded. but Melky is also good and the offense is still unreal without Hideki. I was actually in favor of trading Matsui after this past season. It was very clear after all of last year that we can still win and be a very good team without him and if his departure means we can get good pitching I'd be in favor of it. He's one of my favorite players on the team, but I'd still be willing to part with him for a permanent defensive upgrade and if it meant we got better pitching.
And as for those who say his presence brings in money from the Japanese market... oh well. Im a fan, not a financial officer. I just care about winning and to do that we'll need better than a rotation of Karstens, Rasner, Wright
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 08:50 AM
Matsui is not the problem here and our line-up in significantly weaker without him, especially with Giambi being so streaky
You'll need a better argument than that to say why Matsui should't be traded. Our lineup has been putting up about 6 runs a game since he's been out. And we scored a boatload of runs without him all last year.
TheYankee
04-22-07, 08:58 AM
You'll need a better argument than that to say why Matsui should't be traded. Our lineup has been putting up about 6 runs a game since he's been out. And we scored a boatload of runs without him all last year.How about this then... he's better than Melky and Thompson. That should be enough.
You'll need a better argument than that to say why Matsui should't be traded. Our lineup has been putting up about 6 runs a game since he's been out. And we scored a boatload of runs without him all last year.
I'll give you one. NTC.
ericns1
04-22-07, 09:01 AM
He is a valaulbe left-handed power hitter and could be the DH once Giambi's huge contract ends next year. Plus he is an asset off the field including in Japan like Wang is in Taiwan. It is not his fault the Yanks don't have pitching or that Cash did not bid enough for Dice-K.
yankeeman61
04-22-07, 09:08 AM
I don't know who would give up a quality starting pitcher (a difference maker) for any bat. There's just too much of a premium on starting pitching and Matsui is certainly not a problem for this team and neither is Melky.
I think Cashman went into this season with his eyes opened about the starting pitching. There are question marks galore, but now there is fan panic with some saying even Mo is done after giving up a ridiculous series of bleeders and flares. Trading Matsui would be a panic move IMO. We're 16 games into the season. Wang and Moose are coming back, Clemens is still out there and there's a long way to go people. Everyone please take a deep breath...thanks.
jbauer2485
04-22-07, 09:10 AM
You'll need a better argument than that to say why Matsui should't be traded. Our lineup has been putting up about 6 runs a game since he's been out. And we scored a boatload of runs without him all last year.
The only reason our lineup is putting up 6 runs a night with him out is because ARod is not human this year so far. No way does he play like this all year. Without Arod playing like he has we would have lost about 5 more games probably.
We won last year from luck. Last year we had a career year from Jeter to carry us through much of the season without Sheffield and Matsui. We also got a great contribution from the replacements. Melky had an unbelieveable eye at the plate, even Andy Phillips had a week where he hit like 3 hrs. Our backup catcher also wasn't THIS bad. Oh, and Cano hit, what, like .400 the entire second half? All ridiculous feats that probably will not happen this year. Damon and Giambi at this point are both looking like they might have down years too.
We need Matsui.
Do people even know he has a complete NTC. I highly doubt he will waive it. He isn't going anywhere so all this talk about trading him is moot.
YankeePride1967
04-22-07, 09:13 AM
Do people even know he has a complete NTC. I highly doubt he will waive it. He isn't going anywhere so all this talk about trading him is moot.
Of course not, fans here expect the Yanks to ignore all benefits, ignore reality and find someone willing to give us a Johan Santana, Albert Pujols and a Miguel Cabrera as a throw in for Matsui who will happily waive his NTC to play for the Royals. :P
Retire21
04-22-07, 09:32 AM
I don't think the Yankees would ever trade Matsui for two reasons:
1. He is the face of Japanese baseball and the Yankees organization has developed a nice international business relationship with the Yomiuri Giants as a result of his signing. To trade him would be insulting to that relationship. Right or wrong, that is the reality. It would damage any future relationship going forward.
2. Matsui might be the classiest, most genuinely humble guy on the team. The Yankees love his attitude, work ethic, and dignity. He is as much of what the Yankees aim to be as an image portrayed as any player on the team. To trade him (most importantly, let's not forget that he is still a productive player, too) would be incongruous.
montrealer
04-22-07, 09:39 AM
Nobody is going to give up quality pitching .Just isn`t enough to go around.
Mr. Mxylsplk
04-22-07, 09:55 AM
Matsui has gotten progressively better at hitting each season, has power potential in every at bat, and is a solid contributor .290/20hr/100 rbi guy.
Matsui's a good hitter, but he certainly hasn't gotten better since 2004.
shotgun_sam
04-22-07, 10:03 AM
After watching Melky and Thompson at the plate this weekend (especially re: patience) i don't think we can get Matsui back soon enough.
The correct move this offseason would have been to trade Melky for some pitching/relief while his stock was high.
Martini6196
04-22-07, 10:26 AM
Matsui can take over as DH once the carcass of Giambi is gone and the Yankees can get a better left fielder. No reason to trade such a good hitter.
jughead
04-22-07, 10:26 AM
I think one of Thompson/Cabrera need to be traded (down the line). They both have the potential to be solid outfielders, and there will definitely be a team that will bite around the ASB. As much as I like Melky, I think I'd rather keep Thompson, as he would suit better in a backup role and Cabrera would fetch a better return package.
yanksphan
04-22-07, 10:27 AM
The correct move this offseason would have been to trade Melky for some pitching/relief while his stock was high.
I would have preferred aquiring LaRoche somehow in that rumored 3 team mess...
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 10:40 AM
I hated this signing from the beginning...
MTYankee23
04-22-07, 10:45 AM
Should have had at least the foresight to have him spend SOME time at 1B during ST. Ideally at some point Matsui would be a 1B/DH, and Damon would be playing LF where at YS, his range is an asset but his lack of an arm not so glaring of a weakness.
I hated this signing from the beginning...
Why? He was coming off three very good seasons in which he didn't miss a single game. Also, he was probably one of the best offensive outfielders available that offseason. If he left, I bet you would be complaining on why Cashman didn't resign him.
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 10:50 AM
Why? He was coming off three very good seasons in which he didn't miss a single game. Also, he was probably one of the best offensive outfielders available that offseason.
I knew his defense would become a huge problem in LF. He is a pretty 1 dimensional player...
I knew his defense would become a huge problem in LF. He is a pretty 1 dimensional player...
His defense is below average, but his offense makes up for it. You can't have the best of both worlds.
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 10:53 AM
His defense is below average, but his offense makes up for it. You can't have the best of both worlds.
You can't have a player that is good offensively and at least average defensively? Not to mention I don't like having players that you can't trade for business decisions, its going to hurt the team at one point...
MTYankee23
04-22-07, 10:54 AM
I knew his defense would become a huge problem in LF. He is a pretty 1 dimensional player...
That was and still is a concern, but in that offseason the alternatives didn't seem all that much better. Didn't we not have a CF as well at that point though either?
I may be the only one (which is fine), but I'm much more concerned about the complete lack of offensive depth in the organization. Is there an impact hitter anywhere above Tabata with the possible exception of the fading Eric Duncan?
Seems everyone is up in arms about the pitching, but I think our pitching struggles can almost exclusively be pinned on injuries, an odd 2 game struggle for Mo, and some curious bullpen choices from Torre.
I may be the only one (which is fine), but I'm much more concerned about the complete lack of offensive depth in the organization. Is there an impact hitter anywhere above Tabata with the possible exception of the fading Eric Duncan?
.
I don't think so. We got some talented players in Extended Spring training like Urena, Montero, Almonte, but they are behind Tabata.
MTYankee23
04-22-07, 11:02 AM
I don't think so. We got some talented players in Extended Spring training like Urena, Montero, Almonte, but they are behind Tabata.
Although I'm excited about all of those players, there is still a fairly high attrition rate between EST and the majors, and none is likely to help within the next 3 years. If Melky doesn't recover we have no 1B, no OF depth, and absolutely no Catching if the unthinkable happens.
Again I'm probably the only one, but I'm hoping that in addition to extending Mo, Jorge, and Alex that we at least do some due dilligence regarding Andruw Jones.
Although I'm excited about all of those players, there is still a fairly high attrition rate between EST and the majors, and none is likely to help within the next 3 years. If Melky doesn't recover we have no 1B, no OF depth, and absolutely no Catching if the unthinkable happens.
.
Thats why Cashman will probably use some of our pitching depth to acquire our other needs.
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 11:08 AM
Thats why Cashman will probably use some of our pitching depth to acquire our other needs.
Probably should of traded Sanchez...
Spiker101
04-22-07, 11:20 AM
Probably should of traded Sanchez...
I'm not Cashman's biggest fan, but there were reports immediately after the trade that they were shopping him.
I think a lot of our impulse to trade Matsui is simply because we just lost two straight to Boston. You can say what you want that you've thought this all along but lets be serious. We've won the division the last two season with bum pitchers but a terrific lineup. Keep what works. IMO, a newly acquired pitcher has a higher chance of getting injured than a position player and more injuries would just cause more problems.
Spiker101
04-22-07, 11:27 AM
I hated this signing from the beginning...
The estimate is that Matsui brings in roughly $5 million in unique revenue to the Yanks (that is money that goes to the Yanks and not to MLB to be divided), which makes him an $8 million player. You don't think he's worth $8 million a year? I know his glove ain't much but it's not THAT bad. He's a solid bat who has proven he doesn't fold up under pressure.
I think a lot of our impulse to trade Matsui is simply because we just lost two straight to Boston. .
Which is stupid because he hits Boston.
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD>.298</TD><TD>.361</TD><TD>.484</TD><TD>.845</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
In 161 at bats.
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 11:30 AM
I'm not Cashman's biggest fan, but there were reports immediately after the trade that they were shopping him.
If we packaged Sanchez w/ Melky, I can't imagine not being able to get something of value...
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 11:31 AM
The estimate is that Matsui brings in roughly $5 million in unique revenue to the Yanks (that is money that goes to the Yanks and not to MLB to be divided), which makes him an $8 million player. You don't think he's worth $8 million a year? I know his glove ain't much but it's not THAT bad. He's a solid bat who has proven he doesn't fold up under pressure.
His bat is definitely worth it, but I hated the idea of him being in leftfield and I still do, we should of moved him to 1st this Spring Training, it was a huge mistake...
MTYankee23
04-22-07, 11:36 AM
I think a lot of our impulse to trade Matsui is simply because we just lost two straight to Boston. You can say what you want that you've thought this all along but lets be serious. We've won the division the last two season with bum pitchers but a terrific lineup. Keep what works. IMO, a newly acquired pitcher has a higher chance of getting injured than a position player and more injuries would just cause more problems.
I would agree with this. A lot of people are in panic mode, and while you don't want to fall TOO far behind, a lot of the individual aspects of what's going on can be attributed to small sample size.
That said, I think most of us knew before the season (based on larger sample sizes), that we would get nothing out of 1B and backup Catcher if Jorge started to get dinged. Its not reasonable to expect ARod to carry the offense for the entire season and 3 weeks in, he isn't far behind the rest of the team in extra base hits. How long before teams smarten up, start walking him, and then what happens.
Also it seems like we're losing more than our share of close games with the exception of the ones that A-Rod has walked us off.
MTYankee23
04-22-07, 11:37 AM
His bat is definitely worth it, but I hated the idea of him being in leftfield and I still do, we should of moved him to 1st this Spring Training, it was a huge mistake...
Bingo, that's the type of thing ST is for, not auditioning people when you aren't going to give the clear cut winner the job anyway.
NewEraYanks2527
04-22-07, 12:06 PM
Mastui is going to be a big boost for the Yanks when he gets back. Matsui, Damon, Abreu making up your outfield is pretty damn good. Cabrera as the 4th outfielder is nice too.
Rocketman
04-22-07, 12:08 PM
His defense is below average, but his offense makes up for it. You can't have the best of both worlds.
Carlos Beltran. :(
Carlos Beltran. :(
Sizemore too. How about Corner outfielders?
I've been hearing a lot of people saying that we should trade Matsui for pitching and just keep Melky in left and have Kevin Thompson as the backup outfielder. While I don't agree with that because I think it would be a panic move to injuries so early in the season, what does everybody else think? Who do you think we could get in return? It's no secret that we don't have the best rotation in the world even with all our rotation healthy. Out of Wang-Pettitte-Moose-Pavano-Igawa who would you take out of the rotation if we did aquire a pitcher?
why trade matsui when he's 10 times better than melky? They should've traded melky in the offseason when he could've had a decent selling price, its too late now. The Yankees aren't even going to consider trading matsui
His bat is definitely worth it, but I hated the idea of him being in leftfield and I still do, we should of moved him to 1st this Spring Training, it was a huge mistake...
lol, at yankee fans wanting to play musicial chairs on the defense. Moving him to 1st would be the huge mistake
jughead
04-22-07, 12:25 PM
Matsui is not bad enough in LF to worry about him there. He's average to slightly below average. Considering people want Giambi to man first base, this shouldn't even an issue. There's no need to move him. However, of the current infielders, he should be the first to move to DH if necessary (in a post-Giambi era, of course)
Spiker101
04-22-07, 12:27 PM
If we packaged Sanchez w/ Melky, I can't imagine not being able to get something of value...
Yeah, like LaRoche, for example. Or someone's good young first baseman.
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 12:28 PM
lol, at yankee fans wanting to play musicial chairs on the defense. Moving him to 1st would be the huge mistake
Not trying in Spring Training was a huge mistake, Matsui is an awful outfielder...
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 12:29 PM
Matsui is not bad enough in LF to worry about him there. He's average to slightly below average. Considering people want Giambi to man first base, this shouldn't even an issue. There's no need to move him. However, of the current infielders, he should be the first to move to DH if necessary (in a post-Giambi era, of course)
No, I'm sorry. Matsui isn't average to below average, he is very much below average and has a very much below average arm, his quick release doesn't make up for crap.
jughead
04-22-07, 12:33 PM
No, I'm sorry. Matsui isn't average to below average, he is very much below average and has a very much below average arm, his quick release doesn't make up for crap.
According to what metric? If you go by Rate2 (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/matsuhi01.php) he started out below average and has been working his way up to being average to slightly above average (last year, in limited play of course)
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 12:41 PM
According to what metric? If you go by Rate2 (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/matsuhi01.php) he started out below average and has been working his way up to being average to slightly above average (last year, in limited play of course)
Matsui's UZR was -11 in 04'. -2 in 05', and honestly his play in the field this year has looked a lot worst, and this doesn't even include how painfully bad his arm is.
Spiker101
04-22-07, 12:42 PM
No, I'm sorry. Matsui isn't average to below average, he is very much below average and has a very much below average arm, his quick release doesn't make up for crap.
Well, it makes up for some crap, not a lot though. Any metric that shows Matsui as average defensively is wrong. He's definitely below average with a weak arm. He does make the routine play and he doesn't make mental mistakes. That's the best you can say for him. Given his bat is very solid and there are some groundball pitchers on the Yanks staff, he's hardly a liability.
Dr. Gonzo
04-22-07, 12:49 PM
Matsui's UZR was -11 in 04'. -2 in 05', and honestly his play in the field this year has looked a lot worst, and this doesn't even include how painfully bad his arm is.its odd to think that he was a CF in Japan
NYYFAN5388
04-22-07, 12:58 PM
Matsui is one of our most cluth hitters I know hes been injuried alot the past few seasons and his defense has gone down but I wud not trade him b/c of his bat.
SINCE77 2
04-22-07, 12:59 PM
No. Why trade a superior player just to keep an inferior player? I can't blame Cashman for not getting rid of Melky over the offseason. His value existed in the minds of Yankee fans only. No GM would give anything of value for a corner OF who swings a wet newspaper for a bat and got lucky batting at the top of a potent offense. Members here talk about Melky regaining his stroke. The stroke is the same as last season. Difference is that the many grounders and softliners that got him such acclaim last season are finding gloves instead of holes. What Melky needs to get is that pixie dust back, not his stroke.
Bob Saccomano
04-22-07, 12:59 PM
No way. You're not going to get a quality starting pitcher for just Matsui. In the meantime, Matsui is a lefty that can hit lefties, and does pretty well with RISP. He's perfect to hit in the 7th hole. That makes the Yankees lineup without a clear top and bottom - it just rotates with threats coming at you relentlessly.
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
Giambi
Matsui (Maybe even ahead of Giambi depending on who is hot)
Posada
Cano
Phelps/Mientkiewicz
That kind of a lineup has a shot at winning the game yesterday. Melky is a hole that can kill a rally. While some might feel that he's an injury risk because of this season and last, I'd like to remind everyone that he was a warrior before that who never missed a game.
BxBomber44
04-22-07, 01:03 PM
Can Everyone Be Freaking Out Anymore????? Matsui Is Not Going Anywhere And We'll Be Fine.
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 01:14 PM
The only reason our lineup is putting up 6 runs a night with him out is because ARod is not human this year so far. No way does he play like this all year. Without Arod playing like he has we would have lost about 5 more games probably.
We won last year from luck. Last year we had a career year from Jeter to carry us through much of the season without Sheffield and Matsui. We also got a great contribution from the replacements. Melky had an unbelieveable eye at the plate, even Andy Phillips had a week where he hit like 3 hrs. Our backup catcher also wasn't THIS bad. Oh, and Cano hit, what, like .400 the entire second half? All ridiculous feats that probably will not happen this year. Damon and Giambi at this point are both looking like they might have down years too.
We need Matsui.
we won 90 some odd games including a 5 game sweep of boston all due to luck? thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
im not saying we should go out and trade matsui, but to say that there isnt an argument where trading him could be a smart move is not smart at all.
if matsui could get us a good starting pitcher in return who could win some games and pitch innings, it would be worth it to move him.
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 01:15 PM
No way. You're not going to get a quality starting pitcher for just Matsui. In the meantime, Matsui is a lefty that can hit lefties, and does pretty well with RISP. He's perfect to hit in the 7th hole. That makes the Yankees lineup without a clear top and bottom - it just rotates with threats coming at you relentlessly.
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
Giambi
Matsui (Maybe even ahead of Giambi depending on who is hot)
Posada
Cano
Phelps/Mientkiewicz
That kind of a lineup has a shot at winning the game yesterday. Melky is a hole that can kill a rally. While some might feel that he's an injury risk because of this season and last, I'd like to remind everyone that he was a warrior before that who never missed a game.
a pitching staff that doesnt include a guy like karstens, wright and rasner has a chance at winning too
JL25and3
04-22-07, 01:19 PM
we won 90 some odd games including a 5 game sweep of boston all due to luck? thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
im not saying we should go out and trade matsui, but to say that there isnt an argument where trading him could be a smart move is not smart at all.
if matsui could get us a good starting pitcher in return who could win some games and pitch innings, it would be worth it to move him.Nobody's going to want to hear it, but one of the big reasons they won last year was Joe Torre. He's a lousy in-game manager, but for keeping a team focused and on an even keel over the course of a season, he's the best. In NY, that's a huge thing. So when there were injuries, or people didn't performas expected, he didn't panic. (Unlike some fans, I guess.)
Billy Martin was a superb in-game manager, but he would have completely self-destructed last year.
Bob Saccomano
04-22-07, 01:27 PM
a pitching staff that doesnt include a guy like karstens, wright and rasner has a chance at winning too
Who do you think Matsui brings in? I don't think that you get a good pitcher for him the way the market is for pitching. When Ted Lilly makes 10 mil a year, you're not going to offload Matsui's contract and bring in a starting pitcher. To panic and trade him away is pointless. What's the point of having good young pitching in the minors, then? The pitching staff will be revamped in a year or two. At that time, we won't have a player of Matsui's caliber to replace him.
27IsNext
04-22-07, 01:28 PM
No. While a butcher in the field, Matsui is a good hitter. Melky, even when he's doing well, is not in the same league as Matsui hitting-wise.
frostdude1
04-22-07, 01:35 PM
I dont think Matsui will be traded anytime soon
RhodeyYankee2638
04-22-07, 01:36 PM
I was thinking about this the other day. I love Melky defensively, and we have plenty of offense. How much exactly does Matsui pull in? I know he has a full NTC, but if he didn't, it would be interesting to debate, just because less rich teams would love to have that draw and would trade something of value for him
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 01:39 PM
I'd trade Matsui for Adenhart, I wonder if the Angels would...
frostdude1
04-22-07, 01:46 PM
Would u guys trade Matsui for Ramirez ... I think the Sox would do it since hes usually a sox killer
Ramirez is twice the Yankee killer that Matsui is a Bosock killer.
Would u guys trade Matsui for Ramirez ... I think the Sox would do it since hes usually a sox killer
Yeah, thats pretty much a no brainer.
Manny against the Yanks, 192 (2004-2006) at bats.
.359 .445 .734 1.179
Oh why couldn't they trade Manny to the Mets. :(
Mr. Mxylsplk
04-22-07, 02:18 PM
Would u guys trade Matsui for Ramirez ... I think the Sox would do it since hes usually a sox killer
Well, I'd expect the Sox to offer Papelbon as a throw-in to sweeten the deal, but then sure.
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 02:20 PM
Who do you think Matsui brings in? I don't think that you get a good pitcher for him the way the market is for pitching. When Ted Lilly makes 10 mil a year, you're not going to offload Matsui's contract and bring in a starting pitcher. To panic and trade him away is pointless. What's the point of having good young pitching in the minors, then? The pitching staff will be revamped in a year or two. At that time, we won't have a player of Matsui's caliber to replace him.
For the same reason the Yankees would be reluctant to trade him, another team might be willing to give a good pitcher in return; income from the Japanese market. Matsui's worth is more than his on field numbers.
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 02:22 PM
I was thinking about this the other day. I love Melky defensively, and we have plenty of offense. How much exactly does Matsui pull in? I know he has a full NTC, but if he didn't, it would be interesting to debate, just because less rich teams would love to have that draw and would trade something of value for him
thats the point i've been trying to make exactly, but the fact that matsui is another guy who can hit a homerun puts blinders on many fans and causes them to abandon rationale or to even open their ears
Mr. Mxylsplk
04-22-07, 02:22 PM
Would u guys trade Matsui for Ramirez ... I think the Sox would do it since hes usually a sox killer
I'm guessing you're unaware of the fact that he's actually been worse against the Sox than his career average, and worse against them than his season average in every season but one (2004). How is he "usually a sox killer"?
For the same reason the Yankees would be reluctant to trade him, another team might be willing to give a good pitcher in return; income from the Japanese market. Matsui's worth is more than his on field numbers.
When you say good pitcher, who are you thinking of?
I would to it in a heartbeat for the right deal, but as a result of his supposed ability to generate revenue in the Pacific Rim, it will never happen.
brosiusbuddy
04-22-07, 02:30 PM
When you say good pitcher, who are you thinking of?
I dont have anyone in particular in mind. If this was a real possibility, we'd be able to gauge what type of names would come up in a possible return for Matsui.
JavyVazquezIsSick
04-22-07, 02:34 PM
Nick Adenhart :drool:
Spiker101
04-22-07, 02:38 PM
I'm guessing you're unaware of the fact that he's actually been worse against the Sox than his career average, and worse against them than his season average in every season but one (2004). How is he "usually a sox killer"?
In his last full season with the Yanks, '05, Matsui finished behind Sheff, Cano, ARod, Giambi and Posada in OPS against the Sox. In '04, he led the team against the Sox. In '03 he was miserable against Boston with a .688 OPS. A very mixed bag.
jughead
04-22-07, 02:53 PM
No. Why trade a superior player just to keep an inferior player? I can't blame Cashman for not getting rid of Melky over the offseason. His value existed in the minds of Yankee fans only. No GM would give anything of value for a corner OF who swings a wet newspaper for a bat and got lucky batting at the top of a potent offense. Members here talk about Melky regaining his stroke. The stroke is the same as last season. Difference is that the many grounders and softliners that got him such acclaim last season are finding gloves instead of holes. What Melky needs to get is that pixie dust back, not his stroke. http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=4022&position=OF&page=7&type=full
His BABIP was league average last year (and far below average this year)
CommerceComet
04-22-07, 03:06 PM
They should've traded melky in the offseason when he could've had a decent selling price, its too late now. The Yankees aren't even going to consider trading matsuiI doubt that Melky's trade value has diminished much because of his slow start. Unlike fans, GMs aren't as swayed by small sample sizes. Melky does too many things right at the plate to continue to slump.
primetime714
04-22-07, 03:06 PM
Nah I'd see what I can get for Melky, but I certainly wouldn't trade Matsui. Our offense is a lot better with him in there.
parkerstrong
04-22-07, 03:18 PM
Nah I'd see what I can get for Melky, but I certainly wouldn't trade Matsui. Our offense is a lot better with him in there.
How does it look now about Melky for Gonzalez? Gonzalez hasn't been great, but he would have provided more to the Yanks so far than Melky.
MTYankee23
04-22-07, 03:34 PM
How does it look now about Melky for Gonzalez? Gonzalez hasn't been great, but he would have provided more to the Yanks so far than Melky.
Wasn't the deal Melky AND Proctor? I could be mistaken. Which would just mean more critical 7th and 8th innings for the Professor and Vizcaino. I'll pass on that. It would also mean that Sean Henn likely wouldn't have been given a chance.
Spiker101
04-22-07, 05:18 PM
I doubt that Melky's trade value has diminished much because of his slow start. Unlike fans, GMs aren't as swayed by small sample sizes. Melky does too many things right at the plate to continue to slump.
This is true, but one season is also a small sample size. One-season wonders are not unknown. I'm not saying Meky can't get back to his '06 form, but he's not going to be doing it riding the bench for the rest of the year.
This is true, but one season is also a small sample size. One-season wonders are not unknown. I'm not saying Meky can't get back to his '06 form, but he's not going to be doing it riding the bench for the rest of the year.
i think melky will get his average up to .270-.280 my the end of may. he'll find his pixie dust, er ... i mean stroke. he's a decent player who i'd like to keep on this club if only for his ability to play all four outfield position. the reason why cash kept him has come true - injuries to the outfield.
cash did exactly the right thing.
Jerkface
04-22-07, 05:31 PM
Matsui's a good hitter, but he certainly hasn't gotten better since 2004.
He went from a .280 hitter, to a .290 hitter, to a .300 hitter.
Thats improvement. The only problem is that he lost the power stroke from his nagging injuries in 2005. He lost about 7 hrs but gained 11 doubles as his swing produced more line drives.
Mr. Mxylsplk
04-22-07, 06:24 PM
He went from a .280 hitter, to a .290 hitter, to a .300 hitter.
Thats improvement. The only problem is that he lost the power stroke from his nagging injuries in 2005. He lost about 7 hrs but gained 11 doubles as his swing produced more line drives.
C'mon, he's hit almost exactly .300 from 2004 on. To suggest he's improved his batting average is more than a little silly. His on base dropped a great deal in 2005, and was the same in 2006 as it was in 2004. And as you say, he lost his power, 25 points of slugging. He quite clearly declined in 2005, and 2006 certainly wasn't better than 2004 (looking at averages obviously, since totals aren't a fair comparison). As I said, Matsui is a good hitter. But your statement that he's gotten progressively better each season is simply not true.
Jerkface
04-22-07, 07:10 PM
C'mon, he's hit almost exactly .300 from 2004 on. To suggest he's improved his batting average is more than a little silly. His on base dropped a great deal in 2005, and was the same in 2006 as it was in 2004. And as you say, he lost his power, 25 points of slugging. He quite clearly declined in 2005, and 2006 certainly wasn't better than 2004 (looking at averages obviously, since totals aren't a fair comparison). As I said, Matsui is a good hitter. But your statement that he's gotten progressively better each season is simply not true.
He had 20 more hits in 2005 vs 2003 in roughly the same number of at bats. Unless his BAPIP was much better I'd say thats an improvement. Anyways, the real point is that you are right, he is a good hitter. And my point is that you don't trade an awesome hitter when his backup is Melky Cabrera.
Retire21
04-22-07, 09:12 PM
quote by ppa79: Oh why couldn't they trade Manny to the Mets. :(
The Yankees should have worked a deal for Manny in the 2003 offseason, and with that deal in place, claimed him off irrevocable waivers, and traded him (even if it meant eating some salary). He would not have been able to hurt us in 2004, we'd have 27 rings and he would be someone else's problem. I was always surprised they didn't do that......... of course we would have been villified by the sporting world for manipulating the "free agent/waiver" process, but who cares?
quote by ppa79: Oh why couldn't they trade Manny to the Mets. :(
The Yankees should have worked a deal for Manny in the 2003 offseason, and with that deal in place, claimed him off irrevocable waivers, and traded him (even if it meant eating some salary). He would not have been able to hurt us in 2004, we'd have 27 rings and he would be someone else's problem. I was always surprised they didn't do that......... of course we would have been villified by the sporting world for manipulating the "free agent/waiver" process, but who cares?
I may be mistaken, but I think you assume a player's existing contract when you claim them off of irrevocable waivers. If so, then the Yankees would have inherited his no trade clause in your scenario.
THEBOSS84
12-23-08, 09:34 PM
I am going to sit here and guarantee that Matsui gets traded.
The reason - Jorge Posada's uncertain catching abilities in 2009. They can not have the DH slot occupied full time, nor can they even think about placing Matsui in LF.
27andMore!
12-23-08, 10:02 PM
I am going to sit here and guarantee that Matsui gets traded.
The reason - Jorge Posada's uncertain catching abilities in 2009. They can not have the DH slot occupied full time, nor can they even think about placing Matsui in LF.
Right now Matsui doesn't have a lot of trade value, he has bad knees, hes owed 13mill in 09 and hes in his mid 30s. I think its more likely that Nady gets traded, perhaps for Homer bailey?
CanoForPresident
12-23-08, 10:04 PM
Right now Matsui doesn't have a lot of trade value, he has bad knees, hes owed 13mill in 09 and hes in his mid 30s. I think its more likely that Nady gets traded, perhaps for Homer bailey?
If Nady goes for Bailey, Id hope bailey gets packaged with someone else in a bigger deal,.
metalboy15
12-23-08, 10:05 PM
Right now Matsui doesn't have a lot of trade value, he has bad knees, hes owed 13mill in 09 and hes in his mid 30s. I think its more likely that Nady gets traded, perhaps for Homer bailey?
No way CIN makes that trade.
THEBOSS84
12-23-08, 10:07 PM
No way CIN makes that trade.
I wouldn't be shocked. They backed out of Dye because of the $ he is owed I believe. Nady, while being the inferior hitter, is making considerably less. Sweeten the deal with + if necessary.
Anyway, I think they need to trade Matsui for the reason I stated a few posts up. He kills all flexibility.
genius-24
12-23-08, 10:12 PM
I am going to sit here and guarantee that Matsui gets traded.
The reason - Jorge Posada's uncertain catching abilities in 2009. They can not have the DH slot occupied full time, nor can they even think about placing Matsui in LF.
Other then that I wouldn't trade Matsui.
I believe Yanks make good amount of money in Japan b.c of Matsui.
Yankees1962
12-23-08, 10:35 PM
I am going to sit here and guarantee that Matsui gets traded.
The reason - Jorge Posada's uncertain catching abilities in 2009. They can not have the DH slot occupied full time, nor can they even think about placing Matsui in LF.
I'm against trading Matsui because I think he's going to be the best run producer outside of Arod and Tex. Also, too many people keep saying Posada can't catch in 2009, I think they're going to be proven wrong and that Posada catches 120 games this year. It's in the Yankees best interest for Posada to be the catcher because that's were he's most valuable to them.
THEBOSS84
12-23-08, 10:37 PM
I'm against trading Matsui because I think he's going to be the best run producer outside of Arod and Tex. Also, too many people keep saying Posada can't catch in 2009, I think they're going to be proven wrong and that Posada catches 120 games this year. It's in the Yankees best interest for Posada to be the catcher because that's were he's most valuable to them.
I agree with all of this. I don't doubt that Posada can catch. The point is, if he can't, there is no 1b for him. He's off to the bench since the DH is occupied full time - him and his $13M self.
NYYFutures17
12-23-08, 10:38 PM
I am going to sit here and guarantee that Matsui gets traded.
The reason - Jorge Posada's uncertain catching abilities in 2009. They can not have the DH slot occupied full time, nor can they even think about placing Matsui in LF.
Assuming both are healthy at the start of the season, Matsui would make a much better DH. Plus he's in a contract year, look for him to have a big season. NOBODY MOVE, Nobody trade Matsui
TheHugeUnit2
12-23-08, 10:39 PM
I wouldn't be shocked. They backed out of Dye because of the $ he is owed I believe. Nady, while being the inferior hitter, is making considerably less. Sweeten the deal with + if necessary.
I think the reds were considering that deal due to Dusty. He seems to have a lot of pull with who is on the team.
Yankees1962
12-23-08, 10:43 PM
I agree with all of this. I don't doubt that Posada can catch. The point is, if he can't, there is no 1b for him. He's off to the bench since the DH is occupied full time - him and his $13M self.
At this time, the Yankees are going to have to trust their medical staff and the player in order to make the proper determination about Posada's recovery. The fact that he's deep into this throwing program 6-7 weeks away from spring training is good news.
THEBOSS84
12-23-08, 10:46 PM
At this time, the Yankees are going to have to trust their medical staff and the player in order to make the proper determination about Posada's recovery. The fact that he's deep into this throwing program 6-7 weeks away from spring training is good news.
Being ready for ST and opening day is great and all, but they have no guarantee that it will hold up past game 20. For the record, they trusted their medical staff last season with his shoulder and he came back and it caused him to require shoulder surgery. They need to prepare for the worst in this case and trading Matsui allows them the flexibility to do so.
Yankees1962
12-23-08, 10:48 PM
Being ready for ST and opening day is great and all, but they have no guarantee that it will hold up past game 20. For the record, they trusted their medical staff last season with his shoulder and he came back and it caused him to require shoulder surgery. They need to prepare for the worst in this case and trading Matsui allows them the flexibility to do so.
Why won't it hold up, it's surgically repaired? The surgeon who did the surgery advise him to have the surgery, but Posada wanted to avert it so don't blame the medical staff. I don't think they're going to trade Matsui because some fans have an inkling that Posada won't be able to catch 120 games.
Young Steinbrenner
12-23-08, 10:50 PM
I believe Yanks make good amount of money in Japan b.c of Matsui.
This is what the "Trade Matsui" crowd overlooks. The Yankees top executives are obviously tight with some Japanese big shots, and everybody is cleaning up $$$.
Ricoh Starting Lineup, anyone?
And for all the criticism of Matsui's knees, he's the DH. He is not an outfielder anymore, he's a DH. As the full-time DH, chances are he's going to be healthy and put up his usual good season: .290 avg, 20 hr, 100 rbi
THEBOSS84
12-23-08, 10:51 PM
Why won't it hold up, it's surgically repaired? The surgeon who did the surgery advise him to have the surgery, but Posada wanted to avert it so don't blame the medical staff. I don't think they're going to trade Matsui because some fans have an inkling that Posada won't be able to catch 120 games.
Not hold up in the sense that he either tweaks it, or teams run WILD on him.
We shall see shortly.
NYYFutures17
12-23-08, 10:51 PM
I am going to sit here and guarantee that Matsui gets traded.
The reason - Jorge Posada's uncertain catching abilities in 2009. They can not have the DH slot occupied full time, nor can they even think about placing Matsui in LF.
Assuming both are healthy at the start of the season, Matsui would make a much better DH. Plus he's in a contract year, look for him to have a big season. NOBODY MOVE, Nobody trade Matsui
primetime714
12-23-08, 11:04 PM
Keep them all. There will be injuries and guys will need days off. If Posada needs to DH give Matsui a day off. Plus full days off for Posada won't do him any harm. As for Matsui in LF you could probably get away with it occasionally when Wang starts or if Gardner is starting in CF.
Unless someone offers us a good prospect for any of our OF's there is no reason to trade any of them.
THEBOSS84
12-23-08, 11:09 PM
Keep them all. There will be injuries and guys will need days off. If Posada needs to DH give Matsui a day off. Plus full days off for Posada won't do him any harm. As for Matsui in LF you could probably get away with it occasionally when Wang starts or if Gardner is starting in CF.
Unless someone offers us a good prospect for any of our OF's there is no reason to trade any of them.
Salary relief is the reason Joel Sherman said they'd trade one.
BxBomber44
12-23-08, 11:18 PM
Matsui to LAD
... they have a lot of OF'ers huh
....... nevermind
Assuming both are healthy at the start of the season, Matsui would make a much better DH. Plus he's in a contract year, look for him to have a big season. NOBODY MOVE, Nobody trade Matsui
Agree, agree, agree, agree
Nady is the most likely to be traded if anyone ... most tradeable and least necessary.
... Matsui is a better hitter than Posada IMO so he should take the DH slot.
I am thinking Matsui is gonna put up .290ba, 20hr, and 100rbi this year if he spends his time as a full time DH (with maybe 20-30 games in RF due to injury)
Besides, Matsui has already shown he can hit (he was quite productive even post injury), Posada is still a big unknown.
if they trade him, fine. if they don't, fine.
Damon, Nady, Matsui, Swisher, Melky, Gardner - it's a numbers game now. There are too many that want to trade Matsui on this list. I don't get it. Look what happen when he was out of the line up. He is a perfect DH and back up OF. Watching the games he's been a solid clutch batter. Also, isn't this his last year on the books? I would rather trade Nady or Swisher. I don't see us trading Damon because of his 14M contract, last year, and weak arm. I would like to see Gardner in CF but I am minority. Swisher was in for 1B and still a question on SOs and bouncing back. Melky will not get anything and I stll like Gardner/Melky combo. Leaving Nady and Swisher. One needs to go.
Bucky
Stache Fan
12-24-08, 07:30 AM
This is what the "Trade Matsui" crowd overlooks. The Yankees top executives are obviously tight with some Japanese big shots, and everybody is cleaning up $$$.
Ricoh Starting Lineup, anyone?
And for all the criticism of Matsui's knees, he's the DH. He is not an outfielder anymore, he's a DH. As the full-time DH, chances are he's going to be healthy and put up his usual good season: .290 avg, 20 hr, 100 rbi
Not only does he bring in a giant cash flow, but he ensures good relations with future Japanese players. We need to treat him right.
35Knucklecurve
12-24-08, 07:38 AM
... Matsui is a better hitter than Posada IMO so he should take the DH slot.
I am thinking Matsui is gonna put up .290ba, 20hr, and 100rbi this year if he spends his time as a full time DH (with maybe 20-30 games in RF due to injury)
Besides, Matsui has already shown he can hit (he was quite productive even post injury), Posada is still a big unknown.
That's a good point - maybe being a full-time DH will be to his advantage. He's the type that will do whatever is asked of him. Posada, on the other hand, is not going to be happy as a DH.
BTW - doesn't Matsui have a no trade clause?
Snatch Catch
12-24-08, 07:39 AM
BTW - doesn't Matsui have a no trade clause?
He does, but he's said in the past that he's willing to do what's best for the team.
Yankees1962
12-24-08, 07:42 AM
He does, but he's said in the past that he's willing to do what's best for the team.
He won't this time while being one year away from free agency with a great chance to win a WS.
sweet_lou_14
12-24-08, 07:48 AM
if they trade him, fine. if they don't, fine.
http://www.wearyourbeer.com/images/Rocky_If_He_Dies_Gray_Shirt.jpg
sweet_lou_14
12-24-08, 07:49 AM
I would like to add, I don't agree with the above ... I want to keep Matsui.
If somebody has to go, let it be Nady. The fact that they traded Tabata to get him shouldn't factor into Cashman's decision.
JL25and3
12-24-08, 07:50 AM
He does, but he's said in the past that he's willing to do what's best for the team.I'd love to see a link to that, because I can't find it. It's tossed around a lot, but I honestly don't think he ever said it.
The only comment I can find is this, from the Daily News a year ago, under the headline "Hideki Matsui Won't Commit To Staying":
Matsui, in an interview with Sankei Sports, the Japanese sports daily, surprisingly did not insist that he wanted to remain with the Yankees. Matsui holds a no-trade clause.
"I have not heard anything from the Yankees and my agent," Matsui told the paper, in remarks translated by one of its reporters. "I cannot comment about any reports or rumors. I am going to think about (whether to waive the no-trade clause) only when the team or my agent calls me.
"All I can do right now is to prepare for the next season. Especially I have to rehab for my right knee during this offseason."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/09/2007-12-09_hideki_matsui_wont_commit_to_staying-1.html
I think that's been exaggerated into his saying that he'd be willing to waive his NTC.
I think Matsui could probably still put in a 280 avg with 12-15 homers and 80 RBIS but he is the best candidate to be traded. The only reason he is a better fit to be traded over Damon is because we woudlnt have anyone who could really lead off without Damon.
I Heart Jeter
12-24-08, 07:54 AM
I don't understand why we would want to trade Matsui. Heck if he puts up a .290 20HR 100RBI season, and I think he is fully capable of this and more if he stays healthy, we should re-sign him. He makes a good DH.
Yankees1962
12-24-08, 07:54 AM
I think Matsui could probably still put in a 280 avg with 12-15 homers and 80 RBIS but he is the best candidate to be traded. The only reason he is a better fit to be traded over Damon is because we woudlnt have anyone who could really lead off without Damon.
God, Matsui has no respect with those projected numbers.
God, Matsui has no respect with those projected numbers.
Well what do you expect me to say about a player at age 35 with two bad knees? That he is going to compete for the MVP? Those would be very good numbers from Matsui this year,most teams would take that from a 6th or 7 th place hitter.
Yankees1962
12-24-08, 07:56 AM
I don't understand why we would want to trade Matsui. Heck if he puts up a .290 20HR 100RBI season, and I think he is fully capable of this and more if he stays healthy, we should re-sign him. He makes a good DH.
No, we have to have an open DH for Posada because he can't catch any longer. Only problem with that is we've haven't seen him play since his surgery yet.
Yankees1962
12-24-08, 07:58 AM
Well what do you expect me to say about a player at age 35 with two bad knees? That he is going to compete for the MVP? Those would be very good numbers from Matsui this year,most teams would take that from a 6th or 7 th place hitter.
His knees are surgically repaired, he's playing DH and I'm sick and tired of reading comments that once a player reaches 35, he's washed up which has been proven wrong countless times over the last 10 years by various players
By the way, Matsui is going to bat 5th and he will knock in over 100 runs and hit much better than you think.
smckdwn989
12-24-08, 08:04 AM
I think Matsui could probably still put in a 280 avg with 12-15 homers and 80 RBIS but he is the best candidate to be traded. The only reason he is a better fit to be traded over Damon is because we woudlnt have anyone who could really lead off without Damon.
can you disrespect matsui any more? the guy is a .290-.300 hitter when healthy, and he's got alot more pop than you claim. 20-25 homers is much more like it and 100rbis. he wasn't healthy last year, but in 2007 he put up very good numbers.
i don't see him traded because of his NTC, and I honestly think he would be our best DH. We have a spot for him, move nady or swisher or melky or whatever.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-24-08, 08:07 AM
I'd rather trade Nady.
can you disrespect matsui any more? the guy is a .290-.300 hitter when healthy, and he's got alot more pop than you claim. 20-25 homers is much more like it and 100rbis. he wasn't healthy last year, but in 2007 he put up very good numbers.
i don't see him traded because of his NTC, and I honestly think he would be our best DH. We have a spot for him, move nady or swisher or melky or whatever.
I dont think Im disrespecting I think Im tempering my expectations for a player that seems to entering the twilight of his career and hasnt really been healthy since 2005. I think being a full time DH will help him a lot but Im not going to get my hopes up that just because he wont have the wear and tear of playing the field that he will be back to being the Hideki of 3 or 4 years ago. I should mention that he is actually been one of my favorite players on the team since he got here.
smckdwn989
12-24-08, 08:14 AM
I dont think Im disrespecting I think Im tempering my expectations for a player that seems to entering the twilight of his career and hasnt really been healthy since 2005. I think being a full time DH will help him a lot but Im not going to get my hopes up that just because he wont have the wear and tear of playing the field that he will be back to being the Hideki of 3 or 4 years ago. I should mention that he is actually been one of my favorite players on the team since he got here.
2007: .285 25HR 103RBI in 143 games...
he's not going to have to play the field, just hit and he can still hit. he's also very good at getting the big hit.
I Heart Jeter
12-24-08, 08:17 AM
I dont think Im disrespecting I think Im tempering my expectations for a player that seems to entering the twilight of his career and hasnt really been healthy since 2005. I think being a full time DH will help him a lot but Im not going to get my hopes up that just because he wont have the wear and tear of playing the field that he will be back to being the Hideki of 3 or 4 years ago. I should mention that he is actually been one of my favorite players on the team since he got here.
But you don't even have to look back 3 or 4 years. Look what he did in 2007:
He hit .285 in 143 games, scoring 100 runs with 103 RBIs
Yankees1962
12-24-08, 08:18 AM
But you don't even have to look back 3 or 4 years. Look what he did in 2007:
He hit .285 in 143 games, scoring 100 runs with 103 RBIs
What kind of year did Arod had that season?
I Heart Jeter
12-24-08, 08:22 AM
What kind of year did Arod had that season?
Not sure I understand your point.
I don't understand why we would want to trade Matsui. Heck if he puts up a .290 20HR 100RBI season, and I think he is fully capable of this and more if he stays healthy, we should re-sign him. He makes a good DH.
no. and no.
Yankees1962
12-24-08, 08:39 AM
Not sure I understand your point.
My point is that Matsui batted behind Arod that year.
yanksphan
12-24-08, 09:15 AM
I'd rather trade Nady.
Agreed.
1. Nady nets a better return.
2. IMO - Matsui projects to have a better season offensively.
smckdwn989
12-24-08, 09:18 AM
My point is that Matsui batted behind Arod that year.
i think you would have a point if arod protected matsui, but it was the other way around and matsui still put up some very nice numbers in 143 games...
matsui when healthy is still a very dangerous situational hitter. in fact I think he might be the best situational hitter on the team. i would have no problem with the 345 hitters being Tex, Arod, Matsui. In fact I would go to war against another other 345 tandum in the majors.
smckdwn989
12-24-08, 09:19 AM
I'd rather trade Nady.
i think the yankees will do just that too. his contract is clearly movable and we would get more in return for him. the braves are said to be interested.
heyabbott
12-24-08, 10:11 AM
Keep Nady.
Damon and Matsui, are gone next year and the Yanks need some youth and prime players.
Nady had a great year in 08 and hitting in the lower 3rd of the order will just make his numbers better.
Swisher is due for a rebound year.
The Yanks need two players, a setup for Mo and a ML ready leadoff hitting OF. Unkess Nady can bring that, keep him
JL25and3
12-24-08, 10:12 AM
Keep Nady.
Damon and Matsui, are gone next year and the Yanks need some youth and prime players.
Nady had a great year in 08 and hitting in the lower 3rd of the order will just make his numbers better.
Swisher is due for a rebound year.
The Yanks need two players, a setup for Mo and a ML ready leadoff hitting OF. Unkess Nady can bring that, keep himNady's gone next year, too.
Lets Win Again
12-24-08, 10:19 AM
Our OF in '10 should be:
LF - Holliday
CF - AJax
RF - ?????
Our OF in '10 should be:
LF - Holliday
CF - AJax
RF - Swisher
That'd be sweet. I hope Ajax works out. He really only needs to be a decent number 9 hitter and a good fielder.
THEBOSS84
12-24-08, 10:20 AM
Our OF in '10 should be:
LF - Holliday
CF - AJax
RF - ?????
Swisher.
I can't imagine them signing Holliday. They'd have 4 $20M players in their lineup if they get him.
Swisher.
I can't imagine them signing Holliday. They'd have 4 $20M players in their lineup if they get him.
This is after we sign Manny as our DH this offseason. So 5 $20M players. ;)
Snatch Catch
12-24-08, 10:22 AM
I'm thinking there's a fairly good chance Holliday doesn't get $20 million per. I'm not saying he won't, or even that I would bet on it, I'm just saying I can see his AAV being less than $20 million.
THEBOSS84
12-24-08, 10:30 AM
I'm thinking there's a fairly good chance Holliday doesn't get $20 million per. I'm not saying he won't, or even that I would bet on it, I'm just saying I can see his AAV being less than $20 million.
If by lower you mean $18-19, then yes it's possible. He will not get a dollar lower than that on an AAV basis.
Snatch Catch
12-24-08, 10:31 AM
If by lower you mean $18-19, then yes it's possible. He will not get a dollar lower than that on an AAV basis.
I'd say $18-$19 million is "lower" than $20 million, but that's just me.
THEBOSS84
12-24-08, 10:33 AM
I'd say $18-$19 million is "lower" than $20 million, but that's just me.
Haha. I still don't see them having 4 near-$20M players in their lineup.
wang+cano=future
12-24-08, 10:38 AM
Haha. I still don't see them having 4 near-$20M players in their lineup.
Arod, Jeter, Tex, CC?
Unless you are counting ARod as a $30 million player.....
I agree though. I see the outfield shaping up in 2010 with Action in CF, Swisher in RF and someone not named Holliday in LF. Maybe Gardner breaks through a little this year and pushes Action to LF in 2010. We shall see.....
Arod, Jeter, Tex, CC?
Unless you are counting ARod as a $30 million player.....
I agree though. I see the outfield shaping up in 2010 with Action in CF, Swisher in RF and someone not named Holliday in LF.
One of the reasons given for getting Tex was that they didnt want to go into next offseason having to overpay for Holliday because he was going to be the only marquee name available next year.
THEBOSS84
12-24-08, 10:58 AM
One of the reasons given for getting Tex was that they didnt want to go into next offseason having to overpay for Holliday because he was going to be the only marquee name available next year.
Do you remember a few days back when I was laughed at for saying this?
does anyone believe they'll trade matsui?
PittsburghYankeeFan
12-24-08, 07:03 PM
does anyone believe they'll trade matsui?
No way.
The only reason is to shed salary, and lets be honest, are the Yankees really the Brewers in their need to shed $$$? Mike Cameron this isn't. The guy is good for .300/30/100 even with two surgically repaired knees.
Man O Man, I can't wait the 54 odd days until the start of ST.
BxBomber44
12-24-08, 07:03 PM
Godzilla has a full NTC I believe, limiting teams he'd go to the LAD and Mariners, imo. Not going to happen
BxBomber44
12-24-08, 07:05 PM
Arod, Jeter, Tex, CC?
Unless you are counting ARod as a $30 million player.....
I agree though. I see the outfield shaping up in 2010 with Action in CF, Swisher in RF and someone not named Holliday in LF. Maybe Gardner breaks through a little this year and pushes Action to LF in 2010. We shall see.....
That would be one fast OF
I would love to trade Matsui if we could get something back, but the reality is that the Yanks aren't trading him. He has a NTC so I hardly doubt he would accept a trade to another team especially with all the additions we have made. His goal was to win aa World Series with the Yanks and I think he sees 2008 as his last opportunity to do so.
gadvfreak99
12-24-08, 07:30 PM
Hell no don't trade him.
MassNYYfan
12-24-08, 09:23 PM
Agreed.
1. Nady nets a better return.
2. IMO - Matsui projects to have a better season offensively.
I'm am in agreement with this.
Mr Coffee
12-24-08, 10:23 PM
From Joel Sherman: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12242008/sports/yankees/latest_bombshell_shows_yanks_wont_repeat_145706.htm?page=2
The Yanks still - believe it or not - project a lower payroll in 2009 than 2008, and will now try to lower it further by trading at least one and possibly two from among Damon, Matsui, Nady and Nick Swisher.
They most want to protect the leadoff-hitting Damon and move the worst defender, Matsui. The Angels, after losing out on Teixeira, could use Matsui's production, and so might Texas or Oakland. The Braves, shut out all over the place this offseason, are among the teams that like Nady and, especially, Swisher.
In trades, the Yanks should now try to add multi-dimensional players who can help across the diamond such as the Angels' Chone Figgins (who might even be able to start in center) and Atlanta's Martin Prado. They also will want prospects to ease the loss of three high compensatory draft picks due to signing Type-A free agents (Sabathia, Teixeira and A.J. Burnett).
Ynkcpt23
12-24-08, 11:01 PM
I would love to trade Matsui if we could get something back, but the reality is that the Yanks aren't trading him. He has a NTC so I hardly doubt he would accept a trade to another team especially with all the additions we have made. His goal was to win aa World Series with the Yanks and I think he sees 2008 as his last opportunity to do so.
It's also no small consideration that the Asian market has been invaluable in terms of ad revenue. If I thought that any of this were likely (not sold quite yet) I would bet that Nady would be gone. Matsui's market is limited due to his fielding and the just freaking got Swisher--he'll be a great RF replacement for Abreu...a guy that can field the position?? What's that like??
teknetic
12-24-08, 11:20 PM
I would love to trade Matsui if we could get something back, but the reality is that the Yanks aren't trading him. He has a NTC so I hardly doubt he would accept a trade to another team especially with all the additions we have made. His goal was to win aa World Series with the Yanks and I think he sees 2008 as his last opportunity to do so.
Unless you're getting back some solid-good players (which is unlikely with his contract and age) then you don't trade him. When he's healthy (and hopefully the knee surgery took care of that for the time being) he's an excellent producer.
If anyone is getting traded, it's Nady.
BobbyMeacham's glove
12-25-08, 09:56 AM
Not sure why there is all tis trade talk about Matsui. Besides the obvious fact that what team is going to pay his contract, it's not like we're shedding much $$$ anyway (in the grand scheme of things).
The guy is a professional and clutch hitter, who:
1 - is playing for his next contract
2 - has alot of pride and will want to show people he is still capable
This would be the wrong time to get rid of him. Perfect guy to have on the last year of a contract after an injury.
:D:D:D
BobbyMeacham's glove
12-25-08, 10:00 AM
From Joel Sherman: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12242008/sports/yankees/latest_bombshell_shows_yanks_wont_repeat_145706.htm?page=2
The Angels would give up Chone? I find that highly unlikely. He's a player I'd love to have and something the Yankees really haven't had since the WS days.
Yankeesfan811
12-25-08, 01:26 PM
he is the full time DH next year....we actually have room for him to play everyday at a position where it won't hurt him....
it would be dumb to trade him, unless we want to replace his bat with Swisher's.....
HELL NO
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-25-08, 01:27 PM
Figgins is a terrible CFer, and doesn't have a bat, therefore he has no place on this team.
THEBOSS84
12-25-08, 01:29 PM
Figgins is a terrible CFer, and doesn't have a bat, therefore he has no place on this team.
It's amazing how speed fools people into thinking some players are good.
Yankeesfan811
12-25-08, 01:42 PM
It's amazing how speed fools people into thinking some players are good.
lol...let's hope Brett Gardner can pull it off! haha
jesterno2
12-25-08, 06:16 PM
like people said above, theres no way matsui gets traded. he is the least tradable of our OF/DH guys. he has a full no trade clause, is coming off an injury with a 13 mil contract. no team is going to take that and give up anything without the yanks paying pretty much the entire salary, and the whole point of the trade would be to reduce payroll which that wouldnt accomplish.
i think nady will be moved for some bench pieces and prospects, and personally i like the move. i like nady and his versatility and attitude but i think moving him now with the demand and our surplus will be selling high on him.
with everything thats going on i could see boras coming to the yanks in the 11th hour with manny again and maybe taking a 1 year incentive laden deal if the angels really stay out and the dodgers lower their offer, but i still doubt the yanks get manny. how sick would that lineup be though?
damon cf
jeter ss
tex 1b
arod 3b
manny rf
matsui dh
swisher lf
posada c
cano 2b
lineups pretty slow and not a great defensive outfield but that lineup would be a nightmare for any pitcher...
dont_ya_know24
12-25-08, 08:06 PM
writers have speculated that the rangers could be interested in nady/swisher.
maybe we could package one of them to texas for salty.
TheHugeUnit2
12-25-08, 10:00 PM
Anyone listen to ESPN radio? I saw this on another board, but I don't know if its the truth.
Gammons was just reporting earlier this morning on ESPN radio that the Yankees are looking to move Matsui to either the Mariners, Giants, or Dodgers, as all three teams would likely be approved by him, as he does have a no trade clause. The discussions with the Mariners center around Erik Bedard, as the money is close to being equal. The Yanks are trying to move Matsui as they want to improve their defense and also see them playing Damon in left, with Melky most likely in centerfield, and Nady in right. They think they will need to DH Posada once in a while.
Gammons also said they are exploring a trade of Ian Kennedy to the Royals for David DeJesus, as this would solve their centerfield issue as well, and DeJesus is a Brooklyn guy who can play centerfield, bats left, with some pop, and good speed, and has contract around 2 million, so he fits, their budget and would allow them to bring back Pettitte.
27IsNext
12-25-08, 10:06 PM
Anyone listen to ESPN radio? I saw this on another board, but I don't know if its the truth.
Gammons was just reporting earlier this morning on ESPN radio that the Yankees are looking to move Matsui to either the Mariners, Giants, or Dodgers, as all three teams would likely be approved by him, as he does have a no trade clause. The discussions with the Mariners center around Erik Bedard, as the money is close to being equal. The Yanks are trying to move Matsui as they want to improve their defense and also see them playing Damon in left, with Melky most likely in centerfield, and Nady in right. They think they will need to DH Posada once in a while.
Gammons also said they are exploring a trade of Ian Kennedy to the Royals for David DeJesus, as this would solve their centerfield issue as well, and DeJesus is a Brooklyn guy who can play centerfield, bats left, with some pop, and good speed, and has contract around 2 million, so he fits, their budget and would allow them to bring back Pettitte.
If Matsui is moved then the Yankees will assuredly sign Manny.
Dr. Gonzo
12-25-08, 10:07 PM
Anyone listen to ESPN radio? I saw this on another board, but I don't know if its the truth.
Gammons was just reporting earlier this morning on ESPN radio that the Yankees are looking to move Matsui to either the Mariners, Giants, or Dodgers, as all three teams would likely be approved by him, as he does have a no trade clause. The discussions with the Mariners center around Erik Bedard, as the money is close to being equal. The Yanks are trying to move Matsui as they want to improve their defense and also see them playing Damon in left, with Melky most likely in centerfield, and Nady in right. They think they will need to DH Posada once in a while.
Gammons also said they are exploring a trade of Ian Kennedy to the Royals for David DeJesus, as this would solve their centerfield issue as well, and DeJesus is a Brooklyn guy who can play centerfield, bats left, with some pop, and good speed, and has contract around 2 million, so he fits, their budget and would allow them to bring back Pettitte.No DeJesus, if you trade kennedy make it my worthwhile. The team is stacked, let gardner or melky play it out in CF in ST.
Rocketbooster
12-25-08, 10:12 PM
Anyone listen to ESPN radio? I saw this on another board, but I don't know if its the truth.
Gammons was just reporting earlier this morning on ESPN radio that the Yankees are looking to move Matsui to either the Mariners, Giants, or Dodgers, as all three teams would likely be approved by him, as he does have a no trade clause. The discussions with the Mariners center around Erik Bedard, as the money is close to being equal. The Yanks are trying to move Matsui as they want to improve their defense and also see them playing Damon in left, with Melky most likely in centerfield, and Nady in right. They think they will need to DH Posada once in a while.
Gammons also said they are exploring a trade of Ian Kennedy to the Royals for David DeJesus, as this would solve their centerfield issue as well, and DeJesus is a Brooklyn guy who can play centerfield, bats left, with some pop, and good speed, and has contract around 2 million, so he fits, their budget and would allow them to bring back Pettitte.
I don't buy it at all. First off, what becomes of Swisher? Secondly, Gammons seems stuck on the idea that the Yankees think Melky is a changed player because of a few weeks in the Winter Leagues. If the Yankees buy that, then I have a bridge to sell them. Trading a decent prospect like Kennedy for a CF makes no sense as they have groomed Austin Jackson for that role....
Snatch Catch
12-25-08, 10:13 PM
I'd make either of those deals in a heartbeat.
27IsNext
12-25-08, 10:14 PM
I don't buy it at all. First off, what becomes of Swisher? Secondly, Gammons seems stuck on the idea that the Yankees think Melky is a changed player because of a few weeks in the Winter Leagues. If the Yankees buy that, then I have a bridge to sell them. Trading a decent prospect like Kennedy for a CF makes no sense as they have groomed Austin Jackson for that role....
If we traded for DeJesus, he could shift to left field if/when Jackson is ready. Swisher would remain in right.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-25-08, 10:33 PM
I'd do Kennedy for Dejesus. I have interest in moving Matsui to those teams but I don't have much interest in Bedard.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-25-08, 10:36 PM
Anyone listen to ESPN radio? I saw this on another board, but I don't know if its the truth.
Gammons was just reporting earlier this morning on ESPN radio that the Yankees are looking to move Matsui to either the Mariners, Giants, or Dodgers, as all three teams would likely be approved by him, as he does have a no trade clause. The discussions with the Mariners center around Erik Bedard, as the money is close to being equal. The Yanks are trying to move Matsui as they want to improve their defense and also see them playing Damon in left, with Melky most likely in centerfield, and Nady in right. They think they will need to DH Posada once in a while.
Gammons also said they are exploring a trade of Ian Kennedy to the Royals for David DeJesus, as this would solve their centerfield issue as well, and DeJesus is a Brooklyn guy who can play centerfield, bats left, with some pop, and good speed, and has contract around 2 million, so he fits, their budget and would allow them to bring back Pettitte.
I hate to say it, but this doesn't make sense. Bedard is arbitration eligible, coming off an injury plagued year. He made $7 million last year and will make probably $7.5 million. Matsui will make $13 million, so roughly double Bedard's salary. That's not a wash. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if they asked about Washburn again as he's due just over $10 million (in line with the Pettitte offer). Not to mention Bedard is coming off of shoulder surgery to remove a cyst that was scheduled to keep him out of action 6 months (which puts him starting up in March). So you won't know anything about his health until Spring Training. Also, Bedard is a renown headcase. Granted the Yankees would be asking him to be a 4th or 5th starter, but he might implode in NY Bubba Trammell style.
DeJesus does make sense, however, he's making nearly $5 million next year and a $6 million club option in 2010. So if the Yankees are holding the line at $10 million for Pettitte, they just took up half that to bring in DeJesus.
My guess still stands that Pettitte will eventually agree with the team. If he doesn't, Nady or Matsui will be dealt for a veteran pitcher to round out the rotation, plus some other prospects.
teknetic
12-25-08, 11:14 PM
No DeJesus, if you trade kennedy make it my worthwhile. The team is stacked, let gardner or melky play it out in CF in ST.
What? DeJesus for Kennedy would be robbery.
Rocketbooster
12-25-08, 11:15 PM
If we traded for DeJesus, he could shift to left field if/when Jackson is ready. Swisher would remain in right.
Tomorrow when I have more time, I will look up DeJesus' stats; I'm not familiar with him at all.
The funny thing is, teams will **** and moan about the Yankees, but when it comes to making trades, they won't hesitate to do them because the Yankees have some surplus young pitching that will help them. That's what it comes down to. Small-market teams can yell all they want, but if it helps them, they will deal with the devil so to speak.
metalboy15
12-25-08, 11:16 PM
I'd do Kennedy for Dejesus. I have interest in moving Matsui to those teams but I don't have much interest in Bedard.
Michael Saunders please.
BxBomber44
12-25-08, 11:19 PM
I hate to say it, but this doesn't make sense. Bedard is arbitration eligible, coming off an injury plagued year. He made $7 million last year and will make probably $7.5 million. Matsui will make $13 million, so roughly double Bedard's salary. That's not a wash. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if they asked about Washburn again as he's due just over $10 million (in line with the Pettitte offer). Not to mention Bedard is coming off of shoulder surgery to remove a cyst that was scheduled to keep him out of action 6 months (which puts him starting up in March). So you won't know anything about his health until Spring Training. Also, Bedard is a renown headcase. Granted the Yankees would be asking him to be a 4th or 5th starter, but he might implode in NY Bubba Trammell style.
DeJesus does make sense, however, he's making nearly $5 million next year and a $6 million club option in 2010. So if the Yankees are holding the line at $10 million for Pettitte, they just took up half that to bring in DeJesus.
My guess still stands that Pettitte will eventually agree with the team. If he doesn't, Nady or Matsui will be dealt for a veteran pitcher to round out the rotation, plus some other prospects.
I would make both moves in a heartbeat.
ThePinStripes
12-25-08, 11:23 PM
I'm against trading Matsui because I think he's going to be the best run producer outside of Arod and Tex. Also, too many people keep saying Posada can't catch in 2009, I think they're going to be proven wrong and that Posada catches 120 games this year. It's in the Yankees best interest for Posada to be the catcher because that's were he's most valuable to them.
Agreed. So long as people aren't running on him freely, his offensive contribution over Molina is huge. I'd have Molina catch for Hughes- he seems to get a little flustered with base runners and could really benefit from Molina's ability to frame pitches. This is double true for IPK.
nyyfanatic85
12-25-08, 11:28 PM
Hmmm...are people suddenly forgetting how much of a situational hitter Matsui is? If you're going to trade him, at least try to get someone that will replace his offensive production (ala Manny Ramirez). David DeJesus, Damon, and Melky is one of the weakest OF's in recent memory.
NYCrusader
12-25-08, 11:33 PM
It's amazing how speed fools people into thinking some players are good.
It's more amazing when players who do good against your team form a perception of them being better then they are (Figgons)
NYCrusader
12-25-08, 11:40 PM
What? DeJesus for Kennedy would be robbery.
Robbery for us??? Becuase if thats what you meant I disagree
Dejesus is a 28 year old CF with a .784 career OPS
Kennedy would put up solid numbers in KC with him having a guarantee of 30+ starts, annd highly likely develop into a solid young piture rather quickly in that enviroment...
I wouldn't call it robbery....
Yankeesfan811
12-26-08, 12:03 AM
I'd do Kennedy for Dejesus. I have interest in moving Matsui to those teams but I don't have much interest in Bedard.
Kennedy for Dejesus? that would be ridiculous.....
therefore, I expect Cash to pull it off.....lol
Kennedy doesn't really have an immediate future with the Yankees, but Dejesus can for sure.
I'd do Kennedy for Dejesus. I have interest in moving Matsui to those teams but I don't have much interest in Bedard.
Dejesus for a package of Melky+Kennedy would be a bargain...
I just don't think he's even on the market, not for second tier talents anyway.
ThePinStripes
12-26-08, 03:04 AM
Dejesus for a package of Melky+Kennedy would be a bargain...
I just don't think he's even on the market, not for second tier talents anyway.
I'd throw in Aceves too.
Edit: And Garnder too. No real use for him anymore.
I'd throw in Aceves too.
Edit: And Garnder too. No real use for him anymore.
Aceves + IPK + Melky + Gardner is probably a little too much. I could live with Aceves + IPK + Melky though. Gardner just has such speed he shoudl make a great pinch runner off the bench. He's a + defender too in CF so we can rest whoever we do end up with in CF. (I am still hoping we start with Damon in CF)
Probably all moot anyway. I really doubt we can get him, no matter what we offer.
Aceves + IPK + Melky + Gardner is probably a little too much. I could live with Aceves + IPK + Melky though. Gardner just has such speed he shoudl make a great pinch runner off the bench. He's a + defender too in CF so we can rest whoever we do end up with in CF. (I am still hoping we start with Damon in CF)
Probably all moot anyway. I really doubt we can get him, no matter what we offer.
No. This is not a big improvement. Swisher or Damon can play CF if all fails with Gardner/Melky (Damon, Swisher, Nady) . Aceves is a big unknown and I want to see more before I trade him. This guy had 1 maybe 2 bad games. All pitchers have off days. There is NO WAY I want to trade him based on what he did at the end of last year.
agree - it's moot.
Bucky
ThePinStripes
12-26-08, 07:28 AM
No. This is not a big improvement. Swisher or Damon can play CF if all fails with Gardner/Melky (Damon, Swisher, Nady) . Aceves is a big unknown and I want to see more before I trade him. This guy had 1 maybe 2 bad games. All pitchers have off days. There is NO WAY I want to trade him based on what he did at the end of last year.
agree - it's moot.
Bucky
He had one bad game and that one bad game brought his ERA to a staggaring 2.40 :D
Game log, latest to earliest
4IP, 4H, 4ER, 4BB, 1K
6IP, 5H, 0ER, 3BB, 3K
6IP, 5H, 2ER, 1BB, 3K
7IP, 5H, 1ER, 0BB, 2K
5IP, 5H, 1ER, 2BB, 4K
2IP, 5H, 0ER, 0BB, 3K
He had one bad game and that one bad game brought his ERA to a staggaring 2.40 :D
Game log, latest to earliest
4IP, 4H, 4ER, 4BB, 1K
6IP, 5H, 0ER, 3BB, 3K
6IP, 5H, 2ER, 1BB, 3K
7IP, 5H, 1ER, 0BB, 2K
5IP, 5H, 1ER, 2BB, 4K
2IP, 5H, 0ER, 0BB, 3K
OK. A 2.40 ERA is nice. If we take the 4IP, 4H, 4ER,4BB, 1K out it's under 2 which is very nice. (I watched this game - I think it was a grand slam and he tried a fastball to get by the hitter, he was poor).
This is why I like to see more of him. We've seen this many times when a pitcher starts off great and then cools off. But at this time - the guy is a keeper unless Mets want to trade Santana.
Thanks for the data,
Bucky
No. This is not a big improvement. Swisher or Damon can play CF if all fails with Gardner/Melky (Damon, Swisher, Nady) . Aceves is a big unknown and I want to see more before I trade him. This guy had 1 maybe 2 bad games. All pitchers have off days. There is NO WAY I want to trade him based on what he did at the end of last year.
agree - it's moot.
Bucky
I totally agree that Aceves is valuable... but at 25 he isn't really projected to be an ace anywhere. And quite honestly if Dejesus even comes on the market even Hughes would not be immovable, although we probably don't need to go that far.
...EDIT, upon further consideration, Hughes is too valuable to trade for any position player.
I totally agree that Aceves is valuable... but at 25 he isn't really projected to be an ace anywhere. And quite honestly if Dejesus even comes on the market even Hughes would not be immovable.
Ok, I really don't understand the infatuation with Dejesus. He just ISN'T that good. It's not clear that he's a good defensive center fielder as he was MOVED from CF to LF last year. He's had ONE good year offensively where he batted over .300. He has very little home run power. He doesn't steal bases. His OBP's reach into the .360s which is good but not great for a leadoff hitter. Where is this guy's unbelievable value. What am I missing? He's 28 years old?????
There is no way on Earth that I would consider trading Hughes for Dejesus.
nnysiny
12-26-08, 08:00 AM
ugh, trading Matsui for Bedard is a bad idea. even IPK for DeJesus isnt such a hot idea
Ok, I really don't understand the infatuation with Dejesus. He just ISN'T that good. It's not clear that he's a good defensive center fielder as he was MOVED from CF to LF last year. He's had ONE good year offensively where he batted over .300. He has very little home run power. He doesn't steal bases. His OBP's reach into the .360s which is good put not great for a leadoff hitter. Where is this guy's unbelievable value. What am I missing? He's 28 years old?????
There is no way on Earth that I would consider trading Hughes for Dejesus.
Uh... there is a very good chance we're thinking of totall different DeJesuses.
Uh... there is a very good chance we're thinking of totall different DeJesuses.
OK you edited the Hughes part out of your post, thank you. haha. I mean, Dejesus puts up a good number of doubles and triples and hits the occasional homer so he has some pop. He's only played one full season, however (157 games). He's 28, shouldn't he have hit some sort of potential yet? I think some people think that Dejesus is Johnny Damon, but he's not.
Hughes thing was a brain fart. I've been playinhg poker for almost 8 hours straight so I am a bit tipsy.
I totally agree that Aceves is valuable... but at 25 he isn't really projected to be an ace anywhere. And quite honestly if Dejesus even comes on the market even Hughes would not be immovable, although we probably don't need to go that far.
...EDIT, upon further consideration, Hughes is too valuable to trade for any position player.
OK.
One, he was buried in the Mexican league and not in minors (this is why he's 25 and that's not old). Nobody even heard of him except the locals. This was a great scouting pick up.
Two, he is not an ace and probably will not be one. Neither will Hughes. Joe called him ace because of his name.
As far as I'm concern CC is not an ace either until he starts pitching for us. He has 0 SOs.
(Forget Dejesus.)
Bucky
OK.
One, he was buried in the Mexican league and not in minors (this is why he's 25 and that's not old). Nobody even heard of him except the locals. This was a great scouting pick up.
Two, he is not an ace and probably will not be one. Neither will Hughes. Joe called him ace because of his name.
As far as I'm concern CC is not an ace either until he starts pitching for us. He has 0 SOs.
(Forget Dejesus.)
Bucky
Yeah... we got positional players coming through the pipes starting in probably around 2010 anyway. There are some really nice looking prospects in our system already..
I could even imagine us with a 180 million payroll or lower in 2013 and then decide we dont' need any of the agents on teh market.
I know, too far to really predict, but I can dream.
MTYankee23
12-26-08, 08:18 AM
Anyone listen to ESPN radio? I saw this on another board, but I don't know if its the truth.
Gammons was just reporting earlier this morning on ESPN radio that the Yankees are looking to move Matsui to either the Mariners, Giants, or Dodgers, as all three teams would likely be approved by him, as he does have a no trade clause. The discussions with the Mariners center around Erik Bedard, as the money is close to being equal. The Yanks are trying to move Matsui as they want to improve their defense and also see them playing Damon in left, with Melky most likely in centerfield, and Nady in right. They think they will need to DH Posada once in a while.
Gammons also said they are exploring a trade of Ian Kennedy to the Royals for David DeJesus, as this would solve their centerfield issue as well, and DeJesus is a Brooklyn guy who can play centerfield, bats left, with some pop, and good speed, and has contract around 2 million, so he fits, their budget and would allow them to bring back Pettitte.
Wow, I totally missed this one. Although wasn't Gammons also the one who reported the Cards were interested in Kennedy for Ankiel?
I would do Kennedy for DeJesus (and even Kennedy/Reliever) in a heartbeat. He's not a superstar, but he's definitely an adequate CF, and plus LF that gives you another cost controlled outfielder to go along with Swisher. Going forward after this season, and OF of DeJesus-Jackson-Swisher would be very good defensively, as well as versatile, and strong OBP wise. That's worth giving up a starter that we don't have a rotation spot for, and who doesn't have a great fastball (i.e. could potentially get lapped by better pitching prospects).
In terms of trading Nady and/or Matsui, I'd rather they get prospects back over salary, but that might be the only way to move them. I completely disagree with the notion that Nady would stay in the field if Matsui was moved. He's not a better OF than Damon or Swisher. I'd also be hesitant to make him the full time DH, as it's not clear to me that Miranda wouldn't hit righties better.
I think the Yankees have a lot of pieces that became tradeable this offseason that could fill their remaining spots nicely. Guys like Nady, Miranda, Kennedy, Veras.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-26-08, 08:23 AM
Michael Saunders please.
How is he defensively?
THEBOSS84
12-26-08, 08:34 AM
Imagine trading Matsui and Nady and then signing Dunn on the cheap?
3-4-5 of Tex-A-rod-Dunn. All can hit you 40 homers with an OBP of over .400
nnysiny
12-26-08, 08:36 AM
Imagine trading Matsui and Nady and then signing Dunn on the cheap?
3-4-5 of Tex-A-rod-Dunn. All can hit you 40 homers with an OBP of over .400
what about Posada? hes probably not catching all the time
THEBOSS84
12-26-08, 08:37 AM
what about Posada? hes probably not catching all the time
When Posada doesn't catch, Dunn plays LF and Damon CF.
MTYankee23
12-26-08, 08:38 AM
Imagine trading Matsui and Nady and then signing Dunn on the cheap?
3-4-5 of Tex-A-rod-Dunn. All can hit you 40 homers with an OBP of over .400
Haha, it would be awesome. I would feed off the hatred of the fans of the other 29 "small market" teams.
I would enjoy it even more if in addition to that, we could deal IPK, Veras, and a prospect from those 2 trades for DeJesus.
In '09 the lineup would be.
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Teixeira 1B
A-Rod 3B
Dunn DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
DeJesus CF
in 2010
Jeter SS
DeJesus LF
Teixeira 1B
ARod 3B
Dunn DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Jackson CF
And our defense and pitching would be greatly improved as well.
THEBOSS84
12-26-08, 08:42 AM
I love it.
I love it.
It depends on how many years we give Dunn. I don't like locking up DH...though Dunn is a better OF than Manny.
THEBOSS84
12-26-08, 08:45 AM
It depends on how many years we give Dunn. I don't like locking up DH...though Dunn is a better OF than Manny.
If the market just completely collapses on him - 2/20.
If the market just completely collapses on him - 2/20.
That would be amazing. If we could get him for 2/26 that'd be fine. A 2-year flier would be great.
metalboy15
12-26-08, 08:49 AM
How is he defensively?
From the Handbook:
... A potential five-tool talent with as much athleticism as any Seattle farmhand, he generates good loft with with a fluid stroke. Still growing into his 6-foot-4 frame, he could mature into a 20-homer hitter with the above average speed required to steal bases and play a plus center field. He has a strong arm, having touched 91 mph as an amateur pitcher...
MTYankee23
12-26-08, 08:50 AM
If the market just completely collapses on him - 2/20.
We could help that market collapse on him by trading Nady and Matsui. Teams would probably prefer to get a player cheap/short term.
I'd have no problem with Adam Dunn DH'ing for 3/39 either. He's going to outproduce any player we'd in theory have to move there. I think that's the misconception of "keeping it open" very few guys you'd keep it open for are going to justify that move offensively (i.e. Jeter, Posada).
THEBOSS84
12-26-08, 08:52 AM
We could help that market collapse on him by trading Nady and Matsui. Teams would probably prefer to get a player cheap/short term.
I'd have no problem with Adam Dunn DH'ing for 3/39 either. He's going to outproduce any player we'd in theory have to move there. I think that's the misconception of "keeping it open" very few guys you'd keep it open for are going to justify that move offensively (i.e. Jeter, Posada).
Good point.
Even though we have had the offseason of a lifetime, it will still suck to see someone absolutely steal Dunn.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-26-08, 08:53 AM
From the Handbook:
I'm in, his stats looks good, seems like a good idea for Seattle being they locked Ichiro up, although they could always move him back to a corner.
From the Handbook:
If we could somehow get Saunders involved in a Matsui package...my god that would be a good trade.
BaseballAmerica lists him as Seattle's 2nd best prospect though, so he's not under the radar.
However, he's 2nd to Greg Halman who is a CF that is 1 year younger but moving very quickly. With Ichiro locked in to the OF, Halman likely the CF of the future, and Balentien...if he ever puts it together, being a good corner outfielder, the Mariners might consider trading Saunders for a good haul.
It would take more than Matsui, but I'm not sure what. Mariners definitely need infield help. We don't have hot shot infield prospects at high levels. We do have good pitching prospects, but not sure if the Mariners are looking for that.
SLURPEE
12-26-08, 09:03 AM
2010
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
1B Texiera
3B Arod
2B Cano
DH Posada
RF Swisher
LF Jackson
C Montero (mid season call up)
Sabathia Joba Burnett Hughes Betances (probably a stretch but I do think someone from the system will be in that 5th spot. I put Betances there because he's my favorite prospect and I would like to see him get a spot)
Note: The Yankees need to develop a SS. 2010 is Jeters last year on his contract. I don't want a 37 y/o playing SS. That's a young man's position.
Is there anyone in the system that could be ready by 2011?
jackson is considered a better centre-fielder than gardner and montero doesn't figure to be a catcher in the majors.
carmen angellini is considered to be the best short-stop in the system.
i like dunn, alway have but i really want us to stop signing guys who cannot play the field. over the next few years, we'll have plenty of guys who can take the DH role.
Rocketbooster
12-26-08, 03:31 PM
OK.
One, he was buried in the Mexican league and not in minors (this is why he's 25 and that's not old). Nobody even heard of him except the locals. This was a great scouting pick up.
Two, he is not an ace and probably will not be one. Neither will Hughes. Joe called him ace because of his name.
As far as I'm concern CC is not an ace either until he starts pitching for us. He has 0 SOs.
(Forget Dejesus.)
Bucky
I'll just assume that's your opinion as this is not a fact.
i like dunn, alway have but i really want us to stop signing guys who cannot play the field. over the next few years, we'll have plenty of guys who can take the DH role.
Agree, except I don't even like Dunn.
JL25and3
12-27-08, 09:22 AM
Yeah... we got positional players coming through the pipes starting in probably around 2010 anyway. There are some really nice looking prospects in our system already..
I could even imagine us with a 180 million payroll or lower in 2013 and then decide we dont' need any of the agents on teh market.
I know, too far to really predict, but I can dream.Probably one position player in 2010 - assuming Jackson progresses as expected. Maybe Cervelli and/or Miranda as bench players, no more than that.
There may well not be anyone else until 2012.
Probably one position player in 2010 - assuming Jackson progresses as expected. Maybe Cervelli and/or Miranda as bench players, no more than that.
There may well not be anyone else until 2012.
miranda isn't really a prospect. i hope cervelli makes the team one day. he's suppose to call a good game.
JL25and3
12-27-08, 01:58 PM
miranda isn't really a prospect. i hope cervelli makes the team one day. he's suppose to call a good game.Right, I was trying to say that Miranda's marginal. He might well make a useful bench player - although, with Teixeira, the Yankees probably aren't the team that can use him.
This year should give us some idea whether Cervelli's going to be more than a BUC. If he is, that would be 'uge.
cyhughes22
12-27-08, 02:14 PM
2010
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
1B Texiera
3B Arod
2B Cano
DH Posada
RF Swisher
LF Jackson
C Montero (mid season call up)
Sabathia Joba Burnett Hughes Betances (probably a stretch but I do think someone from the system will be in that 5th spot. I put Betances there because he's my favorite prospect and I would like to see him get a spot)
Note: The Yankees need to develop a SS. 2010 is Jeters last year on his contract. I don't want a 37 y/o playing SS. That's a young man's position.
Is there anyone in the system that could be ready by 2011?
Where is Wang in this plan? First, there is no way Betances is going to be big league ready by 2010. Second, there is no way that anyone who is going to be ready by that time is going to be a better pitcher than Wang. He's a 200+ innings horse who goes deep into games. He's going to be in pinstripes for a while IMO.
Yankee Fan in Boston
12-27-08, 02:18 PM
Where is Wang in this plan? First, there is no way Betances is going to be big league ready by 2010. Second, there is no way that anyone who is going to be ready by that time is going to be a better pitcher than Wang. He's a 200+ innings horse who goes deep into games. He's going to be in pinstripes for a while IMO.
I hope he has a great year this year. I feel like people are undervaluing him because he was out last year and we signed two big free agents. I'd love to see him get 20 wins this year with an ERA under 4, pitch 200+ innings and win the clincher in the WS. ;)
cyhughes22
12-27-08, 04:22 PM
I hope he has a great year this year. I feel like people are undervaluing him because he was out last year and we signed two big free agents. I'd love to see him get 20 wins this year with an ERA under 4, pitch 200+ innings and win the clincher in the WS. ;)
Yeah, I mean the guy was leading baseball in wins over the previous 2 seasons before he got hurt and was on his way to becoming a much more complete pitcher. He's easily the best #3 starter in baseball and probably would've been the best #2 had we not signed Burnett. He's not going anywhere for a while.
If we can move Matsui and Nady we're gonna have our choice of some pretty good DH's.
Yeah, I mean the guy was leading baseball in wins over the previous 2 seasons before he got hurt and was on his way to becoming a much more complete pitcher. He's easily the best #3 starter in baseball and probably would've been the best #2 had we not signed Burnett. He's not going anywhere for a while.
wang is our number two. it doesn't matter who we signed or what the coaches say. wang is the second best starter on this team.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-27-08, 05:26 PM
I still want some Dodger goodies
I still want some Dodger goodies
which goodies?
I dont' want Dunn batting behind ARod at all.
Dodger goodies?
Meaning Matt Kemp. I wonder what it would take to get him, if we didnt deal cano or hughes. I really would love him in CF or LF for the next 8-10, i think he is the best option if we can get him, better than DeJesus
Ynkcpt23
12-27-08, 07:35 PM
wang is our number two. it doesn't matter who we signed or what the coaches say. wang is the second best starter on this team.
Agreed.
Yankyfan
12-27-08, 09:10 PM
If we can move Matsui and Nady we're gonna have our choice of some pretty good DH's.Can we move Matsui ? Seems like there afraid of losing a fan base if they move him.
THEBOSS84
04-17-09, 11:06 AM
Sometimes I wish they listened to the fans...
I don't think anyone will take a chance on Godzilla with his knee situation.
Add on a huge contract and there won't be any takers.
Yankees are going to have to make/take the best of him this year.
THEBOSS84
04-17-09, 11:22 AM
I don't think anyone will take a chance on Godzilla with his knee situation.
Add on a huge contract they won't be any takers.
Yankees are going to have to make/take the best of him this year.
Oh, he's definitely untradable. I wish they traded it him when he had value...when this thread was started.
Well, he had 3 BB and a hit yesterday, kicking up his lowly OBP.
If he gets his knees right, the Yankees feel he can and will be a legitimate offensive threat.
Not that his SLG. is up, but he does have a HR and 2 2B this year.
I don't think he's a total wash yet.
walesave
04-17-09, 11:51 AM
Matsui is untradeable and he's going to need more time for the knees to heal. He may never be 100% but as a DH he can be contribute. Of course Tex's wrist may limit Joe's options with the lineup. The Yanks offense can absorb a few injuries but can't afford to miss A-Rod, Nady, Tex, and Matsui at the same time. I can't believe how snake-bit the Yanks have been with early season injuries for the past few years now.
the_coach
04-17-09, 10:10 PM
No Trade Clause...
TheInfallibleOne
04-17-09, 10:32 PM
Don't panic too much. This team has held its own despite some pretty ugly pitching, and still the ultimate reinforcement is coming in less than a month. You can't get this kind of upgrade at the trade deadline.
Um, we don't want him. What makes anyone think that someone else wants him?
GravyMaster3
04-17-09, 10:46 PM
Trade him for what? A bag of peanuts?
pergo36
04-17-09, 11:09 PM
I've been hearing a lot of people saying that we should trade Matsui for pitching and just keep Melky in left and have Kevin Thompson as the backup outfielder. While I don't agree with that because I think it would be a panic move to injuries so early in the season, what does everybody else think? Who do you think we could get in return? It's no secret that we don't have the best rotation in the world even with all our rotation healthy. Out of Wang-Pettitte-Moose-Pavano-Igawa who would you take out of the rotation if we did aquire a pitcher?
who in their right mind would give up anything for an old outfielder who can't hit or field and makes a ton of money? besides the Yankees and we already have 2 of those.
siddiqi
04-17-09, 11:56 PM
This is the last year of his contract, but it's sad that he ended up with bum knees, Matsui is a good hitter when healthy, but, he's never healthy anymore.
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