Rangers, Young to announce extension [Archive]

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joesalto

03-01-07, 04:48 PM

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070301&content_id=1820974&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Mark19

03-01-07, 04:49 PM

I don't think you are allowed to post whole articles.

Young provides some power, some speed and average defense. His value is derived from his batting average. This is going to be a very bad contract for Texas.

In Mo I Trust

03-01-07, 05:40 PM

This is a terrible contract. Young had one huge year, besides that he hasn't been a great hitter.

yankeebot

03-01-07, 05:49 PM

Tom Hicks. :lol: :lol: :lol:

ppa79

03-01-07, 06:35 PM

Hicks is a moron

knickfan23

03-02-07, 08:14 AM

Jose Reyes looks like the biggest bargain in baseball after that contract.

Snatch Catch

03-02-07, 08:15 AM

Jose Reyes looks like the biggest bargain in baseball after that contract.

How so? The Mets bought out his arb years and maybe a year or so of his free agency.

I don't htink Young is an average defender, either, I think he's a piss poor one. But I could be remembering incorrectly.

bigjf

03-02-07, 08:40 AM

How so? The Mets bought out his arb years and maybe a year or so of his free agency.

Because Reyes is a better player than Young and assuming Reyes continues to play at the level he did last season or even improves, he would have been able to claim a ton off free agency. Right now, the most Reyes will make guaranteed is 9M in 2010, although he has an 11M team option in 2011. So we're talking about an average of 6M per year (rounded up) guaranteed for Reyes, or 7M if you factor in the option. Michael Young is going to average 16M a year from 2009-2013, which takes him to 37 years of age.

Granted, Reyes is still young where he could still possibly claim huge money down the line, but one could easily argue that Reyes is worth more than Michael Young at this point, let alone 5 years from now.

Great deal for Young, though. Maybe I'll go to Texas and try out. I wouldn't mind signing a 5-8M minor league contract with Tom "I Give Away Money for Fun" Hicks....

Snatch Catch

03-02-07, 08:45 AM

Because Reyes is a better player than Young and assuming Reyes continues to play at the level he did last season or even improves, he would have been able to claim a ton off free agency. Right now, the most Reyes will make guaranteed is 9M in 2010, although he has an 11M team option in 2011. So we're talking about an average of 6M per year (rounded up) guaranteed for Reyes, or 7M if you factor in the option. Michael Young is going to average 16M a year from 2009-2013, which takes him to 37 years of age.

Granted, Reyes is still young where he could still possibly claim huge money down the line, but one could easily argue that Reyes is worth more than Michael Young at this point, let alone 5 years from now.

Great deal for Young, though. Maybe I'll go to Texas and try out. I wouldn't mind signing a 5-8M minor league contract with Tom "I Give Away Money for Fun" Hicks....

Do you understand how the first six years of a player's career work? There's a pretty decent chance the Mets are paying more for Reyes than they have to.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 10:56 AM

How so? The Mets bought out his arb years and maybe a year or so of his free agency.

I don't htink Young is an average defender, either, I think he's a piss poor one. But I could be remembering incorrectly.

The Mets are paying Reyes $2.5 million, $4 million, and $5.75 million for his 3 arbitration eligible years (2007 would have been his first). They owe him $9 million in 2010 and have an option for $11 million for the following season. He'll still be young when he hits FA, but the Mets got a great deal for his arbitration years and first 2 years of FA.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/new-york-mets.html

hobokenfish

03-02-07, 11:05 AM

Good for Mike Young. He's a great hitter and one of the really good guys in the game. Considering the contracts that are being handed out this past-offseason, it's not that bad a deal.

Snatch Catch

03-02-07, 11:25 AM

The Mets are paying Reyes $2.5 million, $4 million, and $5.75 million for his 3 arbitration eligible years (2007 would have been his first). They owe him $9 million in 2010 and have an option for $11 million for the following season. He'll still be young when he hits FA, but the Mets got a great deal for his arbitration years and first 2 years of FA.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/new-york-mets.html

They also never had to gaurantee him that money in the first place. If you own someone's rights, but opt to give them gauranteed money instead, I don't see how it can be a great deal.

Additionally, triples and SB don't win arb cases, either. Major HR and RBI numbers do. Those salary figures aren't any great deal for the Mets. They would have been just around the same, except they wouldn't be gauranteed.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 11:31 AM

Reyes was set to become a FA at age 26. Signing him through his age 27 and 28 seasons for $20 million total is a good deal IMO.

TommyK8

03-02-07, 11:41 AM

Reyes was set to become a FA at age 26. Signing him through his age 27 and 28 seasons for $20 million total is a good deal IMO.
It's a tradeoff. The Mets we able to save some money by taking a risk by guaranteeing money for five years that they had no obligation to do. If Reyes blows out his knee, the Mets could end up overpaying. But assuming he stays healthy, this should end up being a good deal for the Mets. Remember, it was signed before the market price for players surged dramatically this past offseason.

Snatch Catch

03-02-07, 11:55 AM

It's a tradeoff. The Mets we able to save some money by taking a risk by guaranteeing money for five years that they had no obligation to do. If Reyes blows out his knee, the Mets could end up overpaying. But assuming he stays healthy, this should end up being a good deal for the Mets. Remember, it was signed before the market price for players surged dramatically this past offseason.

Lets also not forget that Reyes had a great season for the first time last year. Prior to that he was not very good, so injury isn't the only concern with gauranteeing the money.

susieb8020

03-02-07, 01:21 PM

This is a terrible contract. Young had one huge year, besides that he hasn't been a great hitter.

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BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Jeter</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">R</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">H</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">HR</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RBI</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">BA</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">OBP</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">SLG</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">OPS</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2004</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>111</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>188</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>23</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>78</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.29237947122861585">0.292</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35127478753541075">0.351</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.47122861586314152">0.471</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.82250340339855232">0.823</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2005</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>122</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>202</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>19</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>70</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.30886850152905199">0.309</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.38770053475935828">0.388</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.44954128440366975">0.450</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.83724181916302798">0.837</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2006</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>118</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>214</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>97</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.3434991974317817">0.343</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.4143258426966292">0.414</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.48314606741573035">0.483</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.89747191011235961">0.897</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Do you think Jeter is a good hitter? Jeter is better defensively, but i'd say they are pretty even offensively. Plus they are the same age. I think Texas was right to lock up Young.

bigjf

03-02-07, 01:25 PM

Lets also not forget that Reyes had a great season for the first time last year. Prior to that he was not very good, so injury isn't the only concern with gauranteeing the money.

I can't blame the Mets for taking that risk. He seems to be a good kid who is working to get better each year, and the results are starting to show.

iodon

03-02-07, 01:29 PM

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 333pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=441 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 37pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1792" span=9 width=49><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49 height=17>Young</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>R</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>H</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>HR</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>RBI</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>BA</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>OBP</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>SLG</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>OPS</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2004</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>114</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>216</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>22</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>99</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.31304347826086959">0.313</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35270270270270271">0.353</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.4826086956521739">0.483</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.83531139835487656">0.835</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2005</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>114</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>221</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>24</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>91</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.33083832335329344">0.331</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.38524590163934425">0.385</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.51347305389221554">0.513</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.89871895553155978">0.899</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2006</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>93</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>217</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>103</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.31403762662807527">0.314</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35561497326203206">0.356</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.45875542691751087">0.459</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.81437040017954287">0.814</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Jeter</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">R</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">H</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">HR</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RBI</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">BA</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">OBP</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">SLG</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">OPS</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2004</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>111</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>188</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>23</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>78</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.29237947122861585">0.292</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35127478753541075">0.351</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.47122861586314152">0.471</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.82250340339855232">0.823</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2005</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>122</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>202</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>19</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>70</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.30886850152905199">0.309</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.38770053475935828">0.388</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.44954128440366975">0.450</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.83724181916302798">0.837</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2006</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>118</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>214</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>97</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.3434991974317817">0.343</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.4143258426966292">0.414</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.48314606741573035">0.483</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.89747191011235961">0.897</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Do you think Jeter is a good hitter? Jeter is better defensively, but i'd say they are pretty even offensively. Plus they are the same age. I think Texas was right to lock up Young.

I don't think anyone here said that Jeter was a bargain. In addition, Jeter signed his contrat at a younger age, before the market correction (that has not fully reversed). I think people will complain about the last two years of Jeters contract as they will complain about the last two years of Young's contract. This just seems like too much money for Young. But hey, it's not my money.

susieb8020

03-02-07, 01:33 PM

I just think to say Young had only one good year is ridiculous. Plus he is a great hitting shortstop. The guy has over 200 hits in each of his last 4 seasons.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 01:34 PM

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 333pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=441 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 37pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1792" span=9 width=49><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49 height=17>Young</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>R</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>H</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>HR</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>RBI</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>BA</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>OBP</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>SLG</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 37pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=49>OPS</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2004</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>114</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>216</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>22</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>99</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.31304347826086959">0.313</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35270270270270271">0.353</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.4826086956521739">0.483</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.83531139835487656">0.835</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2005</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>114</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>221</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>24</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>91</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.33083832335329344">0.331</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.38524590163934425">0.385</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.51347305389221554">0.513</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.89871895553155978">0.899</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2006</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>93</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>217</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>103</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.31403762662807527">0.314</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35561497326203206">0.356</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.45875542691751087">0.459</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.81437040017954287">0.814</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Jeter</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">R</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">H</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">HR</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">RBI</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">BA</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">OBP</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">SLG</TD><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">OPS</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2004</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>111</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>188</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>23</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>78</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.29237947122861585">0.292</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.35127478753541075">0.351</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.47122861586314152">0.471</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.82250340339855232">0.823</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2005</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; 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BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.83724181916302798">0.837</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl22 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2006</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>118</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>214</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>14</TD><TD class=xl23 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>97</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.3434991974317817">0.343</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.4143258426966292">0.414</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.48314606741573035">0.483</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.89747191011235961">0.897</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Do you think Jeter is a good hitter? Jeter is better defensively, but i'd say they are pretty even offensively. Plus they are the same age. I think Texas was right to lock up Young.

Young has had one season in his entire career where he has had an OPS+ above 110. Jeter's career OPS+ is 21 points better than Young's.

bigjf

03-02-07, 01:35 PM

Do you understand how the first six years of a player's career work? There's a pretty decent chance the Mets are paying more for Reyes than they have to.

I feel I have a fair grasp of the concept, yes. He's making 2.5M this year under the deal he signed, but I think it's fair to say he could have made quite a bit more through arbitration, to say the least. So in total, he's presumably saving the Mets a lot of money. Same case could be made with David Wright (only making 1M this year), though he got a better deal than Reyes. There's a chance that the Mets are paying more than they have to, if Reyes suffers serious injury (could happen to anybody) or declines in skill so badly that it makes the Mets look foolish in hindsight, but I wouldn't say there's a "pretty decent" chance of that happening. I'd say the safe bet is actually on the contrary, based on what I've seen.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 01:36 PM

I just think to say Young had only one good year is ridiculous. Plus he is a great hitting shortstop. The guy has over 200 hits in each of his last 4 seasons.

But he doesn't walk very much, his OBP is about league average despite his high BA.

Snatch Catch

03-02-07, 01:39 PM

I feel I have a fair grasp of the concept, yes. He's making 2.5M this year under the deal he signed, but I think it's fair to say he could have made quite a bit more through arbitration, to say the least.

Being frank, I don't think that's fair to say at all.

susieb8020

03-02-07, 01:39 PM

But he doesn't walk very much, his OBP is about league average despite his high BA.

True, but you said he wasn't a good hitter ;)

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 01:47 PM

True, but you said he wasn't a good hitter ;)

To me, having good plate discipline and a good OBP is part of being a good hitter. Young's numbers are good now for a SS, but if he has to move from the position towards the end of this contract that will be a major problem.

hobokenfish

03-02-07, 02:08 PM

To me, having good plate discipline and a good OBP is part of being a good hitter. Young's numbers are good now for a SS, but if he has to move from the position towards the end of this contract that will be a major problem.

The other position he plays is 2B, which is what he played when A-Rod was in Texas. Young's numbers as a second baseman are even better than as a SS if he had to move back. Bottom line is the guy can rake. I'll take a .310-.320 batting average with 200 hits and a bit of pop anyday. To be honest, I'd rather have Michael Young and his lower OBP than a guy like Jason Giambi who has a high OBP and lower BA and is an anchor on the basepaths.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 02:13 PM

To be honest, I'd rather have Michael Young and his lower OBP than a guy like Jason Giambi who has a high OBP and lower BA and is an anchor on the basepaths.

Jason is always clogging up the bases with his walks.

hobokenfish

03-02-07, 02:22 PM

Jason is always clogging up the bases with his walks.

Put it this way: Young scored more runs than Giambi over the last 4 years despite the lower OBP. And I don't think you can say that Young had better hitters behind him than Giambi.

Snatch Catch

03-02-07, 02:26 PM

Put it this way: Young scored more runs than Giambi over the last 4 years despite the lower OBP. And I don't think you can say that Young had better hitters behind him than Giambi.

Games played over the last 4 years:

Young: 641

Giambi: 414

That's a defference of 227 games, or close to a season and a half. Giambi was also in pretty poor health for a large portion of that time. It's a pretty bad comparison, my Hoboken brethren.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 02:29 PM

And for a large chunk of those games that he actually did play, Jason was sick and a shell of himself as a hitter.

hobokenfish

03-02-07, 02:54 PM

Games played over the last 4 years:

Young: 641

Giambi: 414

That's a defference of 227 games, or close to a season and a half. Giambi was also in pretty poor health for a large portion of that time. It's a pretty bad comparison, my Hoboken brethren.

Okay, fair point. But still, even with Giambi's full season last year and .413 OBP, Young and his .356 OBP still outscored him by a run. And the year prior, Young outscored him by a lot even though Giambi's OBP was like .440. And I won't get into why Giambi has played in less games than Young over the last four years....

All I'm saying is don't discount the value of having a guy who can hit his way on base. OBP is good, but so is being able to get base hits.

JeffWeaverFan

03-02-07, 02:56 PM

IMO, this deal is going to look horrible for the last 3 years of it.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 03:01 PM

Okay, fair point. But still, even with Giambi's full season last year and .413 OBP, Young and his .356 OBP still outscored him by a run. And the year prior, Young outscored him by a lot even though Giambi's OBP was like .440. And I won't get into why Giambi has played in less games than Young over the last four years....

Young hit in the two hole primarily, while Giambi mainly hit 4th and 5th. All things being equal, do you think a hitter like Young would score more runs than one like Jason even though Jason is on base a lot more?

hobokenfish

03-02-07, 03:19 PM

Young hit in the two hole primarily, while Giambi mainly hit 4th and 5th. All things being equal, do you think a hitter like Young would score more runs than one like Jason even though Jason is on base a lot more?

That's a good question, and I'm not sure of the answer. But my point is that even though Young may not have the same OBP as someone like Giambi, he gets on base at a decent enough clip just by hitting his way on and he scores a lot of runs because he can run the bases very well. That's why I don't think it's a bad deal for Texas. Guys who can hit over .300 every year with 200 hits are in limited supply, and even though it seems like a lot of money, Texas is not stupid for locking him up.

Maybe I'm just biased because I met the guy and he was very cool.

In Mo I Trust

03-02-07, 03:33 PM

That's a good question, and I'm not sure of the answer. But my point is that even though Young may not have the same OBP as someone like Giambi, he gets on base at a decent enough clip just by hitting his way on and he scores a lot of runs because he can run the bases very well. That's why I don't think it's a bad deal for Texas. Guys who can hit over .300 every year with 200 hits are in limited supply, and even though it seems like a lot of money, Texas is not stupid for locking him up.

Maybe I'm just biased because I met the guy and he was very cool.

I think how he runs the bases has a very small impact on how many runs he scores. He hits well for a SS now, but I worry about the back end of this deal. I think they should have used this money towards an extension for Teixeira, as I don't think they will be able to keep both.

JavyVazquezIsSick

03-02-07, 03:33 PM

Thats a ton of money.

hobokenfish

03-02-07, 03:38 PM

I think how he runs the bases has a very small impact on how many runs he scores. He hits well for a SS now, but I worry about the back end of this deal. I think they should have used this money towards an extension for Teixeira, as I don't think they will be able to keep both.

He may be playing second base at the back end of the deal, so it isn't as bad as it might appear. If the Rangers were choosing between the two guys, maybe they just made their decision. Maybe they figured that Teixeira would get even more than that and he's not worth it. Or maybe they know Teixeira wants to play somewhere else. Who knows, but at least they got one of their guys locked up.

I absolutely think running the bases has an impact on how many runs a player scores.

JeffWeaverFan

03-02-07, 04:05 PM

I still don't get why they would do this now, when they still have him under contract for two more years. He's going to be 33 when this new deal starts... Really bad decision.

bigjf

03-02-07, 08:45 PM

Being frank, I don't think that's fair to say at all.

If you say so...

sprucemoose

03-02-07, 09:18 PM

Mattpat11

03-03-07, 10:51 AM

Jason is always clogging up the bases with his walks.

I think a far better example is someone like Mark Bellhorn who hits for a low average, no power, but somehow gets by because he walks.

bigjf

03-03-07, 11:47 AM

JeffWeaverFan

03-04-07, 12:56 AM

I don't recall everything that happened in that situation, but wasn't A-Rod the one who wanted out of Texas? I can recall the Rangers looking to make A-Rod their captain actually just before he was traded....
A-Rod never said he wanted out of Texas. Not once. A-Rod accepted to take less money in his contract (or at least deferred money) to go to Boston, which indicated he did want out to go to a good team, but he never requested a trade.

AustinTXHorn

03-05-07, 01:14 AM

I think some of you need to watch baseball outside of New York. Michael Young had one good year?

The Rangers signed Young to an extension now because they want him to become the face of the franchise. Teixeira (Boras) seems determined to test the free agent market, so they needed to lock up the sure bet. They might have overpaid a bit, but it's not really a bad deal. It was a necessary one for the Rangers.

MY is one of the best clutch hitters in baseball. Just look at his averages with RISP, RISP/2 outs, and with the bases loaded. He knows how to get it done when it matters.

It's like Derek Jeter. The person who compared their offensive numbers is dead on. They're both guys who don't put up eye-popping numbers during the season, but they get the hits when the game is on the line. They are both outstanding teammates. The difference is that one plays in a gigantic market on a great team and the other plays in a so-so market with a so-so team.

For the record, Young isn't bad defensively. He was horrible early on, because he was re-learning how to play shortstop. He has since turned into a slightly above-average defender.

AustinTXHorn

03-05-07, 01:35 AM

How come they can pay Young this much, but couldn't afford the contract they gave their old shortstop? I haven't done the math, but I would imagine that:

The money Texas paid A-Rod in the first years of his contract
+ what they pay the Yankees as part of the trade
+ the $80 mil to Young
= something close to $252 million

or at least close enough that it would have made more sense to keep the superior player. I'm glad they didn't though...
The Rangers' 2006 payroll: $68.2 million, 18th in baseball
The Rangers' 2003 payroll: $103.5 million, 5th in baseball

In 2003, Carl Everett made $9.15 million. Juan Gonzalez got $13MM, Palmeiro had another $9MM, Chan Ho Park made $13 million, and Rusty Greer got $7 million. The payroll was gigantic and there were a lot of bad contracts.

I don't blame the Rangers for getting rid of him. He obviously did not really want to be there and he was taking up way too much of the payroll. It was a terrible trade to both not get more and to choose Arias over Cano.

Going back to the 2003-ish years, I think the bashing of Hicks was more than warranted. But not so much anymore. The free agent signings that the Rangers have made lately have been pretty fair to the market and haven't turned out to be the albatrosses that the CHoP and A-Rod contracts were.

The Comic Book Guy

03-05-07, 02:57 AM

While Young e probably won't replicate his 2005 season, if he can hit to the tune of .315 / .360 / .470 for the duration of his contract, it won't look too bad. As long as we're comparing him to Jeter, since Derek signed his extension before the 2001 season he's hit .312 / .383 / .459, and no one really complains about his contract.

Granted, at the time he signed his extension the Yankees were coming off three straight World Series Titles and Derek had just had three terrific seasons (OPS+s of 126, 161, and 123). Still, as long as Young continues to produce at the level he has for the last three seasons, he'll be fine. The question is, can he?

While it looks okay now, like others have said I think this deal may look very bad around 2010-2011. Then again, it might not. Derek will be 33 next year and no one expects a precipitous decline from him in the next two years. That's the age Young will be at the end of his deal.

yankeebot

03-05-07, 04:57 AM

While it looks okay now, like others have said I think this deal may look very bad around 2010-2011. Then again, it might not. Derek will be 33 next year and no one expects a precipitous decline from him in the next two years. That's the age Young will be at the end of his deal. Michael Young, Born (http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/) October 19 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/birthdays.cgi?month=10&day=19), 1976 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/ML_1976_birth.shtml). That makes him 30 now. This deal runs through 2013. That makes him 37 when the deal is up. He was a bargain for 07 and 08. The Rangers basically threw that away by locking him up with a deal that grossly overpays him well past his prime.

The Comic Book Guy

03-05-07, 05:22 AM

Michael Young, Born (http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/) October 19 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/birthdays.cgi?month=10&day=19), 1976 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/ML_1976_birth.shtml). That makes him 30 now. This deal runs through 2013. That makes him 37 when the deal is up. He was a bargain for 07 and 08. The Rangers basically threw that away by locking him up with a deal that grossly overpays him well past his prime.

My mistake. I misread the article and only looked at the five year extension part.

Nevermind. This one's gonna be ugly.

RhodeyYankee2638

03-05-07, 05:49 AM

I don't recall everything that happened in that situation, but wasn't A-Rod the one who wanted out of Texas? I can recall the Rangers looking to make A-Rod their captain actually just before he was traded....

If I remember correctly, he didn't ask for a trade. When the trade with the Sox fell through, there was talk about making him the team captain. Then, he got traded to the Yankees

yankeebot

03-05-07, 06:02 AM

Yep. And the Yankees approached them, not the other way around.

bigjf

03-05-07, 06:13 AM

If I remember correctly, he didn't ask for a trade. When the trade with the Sox fell through, there was talk about making him the team captain. Then, he got traded to the Yankees

True, but isn't there some kind of bad blood between him and the Rangers now? I swear I can remember him bad mouthing them somewhere, or at least being perceived as bad mouthing....

Snatch Catch

03-05-07, 07:59 AM

If you say so...

The historical record says so more than me.

In Mo I Trust

03-05-07, 08:19 AM

I think some of you need to watch baseball outside of New York. Michael Young had one good year?

He has had one year worthy of a $16 million salary. I don't see him duplicating that season several times after age 30.

YankeePride1967

03-05-07, 08:21 AM

Michael Young is a very solid player, he isn't a superstar worth $16 million though.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 08:45 AM

He has had one year worthy of a $16 million salary. I don't see him duplicating that season several times after age 30.

Why not? Young is not a power hitter, but instead hits for average and has some pop. He's the type of player who can sustain what he's doing for a while. And he's played in 156 games or more since '02, so there's no reason to believe he's an injury risk.

And one good year?? He's batted .300 or better and has had more than 200 hits for four straight years, with RBI totals of 72, 99, 91, and 103 (usually hitting from the top of the order). Not to mention all of the runs scored. In today's market, it's not all that shocking that he got this much money. Plus, he was way underpaid for the past four years.

ppa79

03-05-07, 09:30 AM

Why not? Young is not a power hitter, but instead hits for average and has some pop. He's the type of player who can sustain what he's doing for a while. And he's played in 156 games or more since '02, so there's no reason to believe he's an injury risk.

And one good year?? He's batted .300 or better and has had more than 200 hits for four straight years, with RBI totals of 72, 99, 91, and 103 (usually hitting from the top of the order). Not to mention all of the runs scored. In today's market, it's not all that shocking that he got this much money. Plus, he was way underpaid for the past four years.

Yes, one good year.

Year OPS+
2002 74
2003 98
2004 106
2005 133
2006 106

His 2005 season was great, but otherwise he's been slightly above or below average.

In Mo I Trust

03-05-07, 09:34 AM

His 2003, 2004, and 2006 numbers are good for a SS, but to me there is a difference between "good" and deserving of a $16 million salary.

ppa79

03-05-07, 09:37 AM

His 2003, 2004, and 2006 numbers are good for a SS, but to me there is a difference between "good" and deserving of a $16 million salary.

Yeah, making 16 million dollars means you are one of the top players in the game and he isn't.

Dannman103

03-05-07, 09:45 AM

.306 14 HR 76 RBI
.313 22 HR 99 RBI
.331 24 HR 91 RBI
.314 14 HR 103 RBI

For a guy hitting second to drive in that many runs...looks pretty good to me...those look like Jeter-esque years

ppa79

03-05-07, 09:48 AM

.306 14 HR 76 RBI
.313 22 HR 99 RBI
.331 24 HR 91 RBI
.314 14 HR 103 RBI

For a guy hitting second to drive in that many runs...looks pretty good to me...those look like Jeter-esque years

Jeter is a superior player to Young. Jeter's career OPS+ is 20 points higher than Young's.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 09:52 AM

Yes, one good year.

Year OPS+
2002 74
2003 98
2004 106
2005 133
2006 106

His 2005 season was great, but otherwise he's been slightly above or below average.

OPS+ is not necessarily the right stat to evaluate Young because he's not a power hitter and his OBP, as already discussed, is not great. But if you want to just use that one stat to evaluate a player, that's your prerogative.

ppa79

03-05-07, 09:55 AM

OPS+ is not necessarily the right stat to evaluate Young because he's not a power hitter and his OBP, as already discussed, is not great. But if you want to just use that one stat to evaluate a player, that's your prerogative.

Then what is the best stat? Typically the best players in the league have high OPS+. But Young doesn't. Even Jeter who isn't a power hitter has a good career OPS+.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 10:02 AM

Then what is the best stat? Typically the best players in the league have high OPS+. But Young doesn't.

There is no "best stat." You have to look at their stats and also watch them play. No one stat should be used to judge a player.

ppa79

03-05-07, 10:09 AM

There is no "best stat." You have to look at their stats and also watch them play. No one stat should be used to judge a player.

OPS+ is probably one of the best stats out there. OPS+ is adjusted for league average and ballpark. Find me an great player in the league right now who has an average OPS+. You aren't gonna find it. And if you are making 16 million a year, you better be great and aside from 2005, he hasn't been great.

RBI and Runs scores are heavily dependent on who are hitting in front of you and behind you. Those aren't great measures to judge a baseball player.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 10:17 AM

OPS+ is probably one of the best stats out there. OPS+ is adjusted for league average and ballpark. Find me an great player in the league right now who has an average OPS+. You aren't gonna find it.

Of course you aren't, if you are basing whether they are a "great player" on that stat. To me, Michael Young is one of the great hitters in the game. There certainly are better players, but Michael Young is right up there with the best hitters in the AL. He could get on base more by walking, but I think he's a great hitter.

ppa79

03-05-07, 10:24 AM

Of course you aren't, if you are basing whether they are a "great player" on that stat. To me, Michael Young is one of the great hitters in the game. There certainly are better players, but Michael Young is right up there with the best hitters in the AL. He could get on base more by walking, but I think he's a great hitter.

Maybe to you, but to everyone else he is slightly above average.

He is not a top hitter in the AL. All these guys are better than him and there are a bunch I probably left out. And only 3 of these players make over 16 million dollars.

Jeter
Arod
Vlad
Sizemore
Manny
Ortiz
Mauer
Hafner
Tejada
Texiera
Konerko

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 10:38 AM

AustinTXHorn

03-05-07, 11:40 AM

Maybe to you, but to everyone else he is slightly above average.

He is not a top hitter in the AL. All these guys are better than him and there are a bunch I probably left out. And only 3 of these players make over 16 million dollars.

Jeter
Arod
Vlad
Sizemore
Manny
Ortiz
Mauer
Hafner
Tejada
Texiera
Konerko
Probably because a few of the players that you mentioned haven't finished their six years of Major League service?

All of those players would be making $16 million per year if they were given a contract in this current market.

Statheads obviously aren't going to like this deal. MY isn't going to hit 50 homers and he isn't going to walk 100 times. I guess you just have to be a Ranger fan or watch him closely to fully appreciate what he brings to the table. I'm not shy to bash the Rangers when I think they made a bad move, but I think this was one that certainly had to be done.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 12:36 PM

Statheads obviously aren't going to like this deal. MY isn't going to hit 50 homers and he isn't going to walk 100 times. I guess you just have to be a Ranger fan or watch him closely to fully appreciate what he brings to the table. I'm not shy to bash the Rangers when I think they made a bad move, but I think this was one that certainly had to be done.

Agreed. I am impressed with the guy every time I see him play. Sometimes looking solely at OBP and SLG stats does not give you the best picture of what a player brings to the table.

ppa79

03-05-07, 12:55 PM

Probably because a few of the players that you mentioned haven't finished their six years of Major League service?

All of those players would be making $16 million per year if they were given a contract in this current market.

Statheads obviously aren't going to like this deal. MY isn't going to hit 50 homers and he isn't going to walk 100 times. I guess you just have to be a Ranger fan or watch him closely to fully appreciate what he brings to the table. I'm not shy to bash the Rangers when I think they made a bad move, but I think this was one that certainly had to be done.

They are all better than Michael Young. Michael Young is a good player, but he isn't a great player.

ppa79

03-05-07, 12:58 PM

Agreed. I am impressed with the guy every time I see him play. Sometimes looking solely at OBP and SLG stats does not give you the best picture of what a player brings to the table.

That is something Scott Boras would say to hoodwink Hicks into overpaying for Young. Young is a good player, but not the type of player that can command 16 mil a year.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 01:01 PM

That is something Scott Boras would say to hoodwink Hicks into overpaying for Young. Young is a good player, but not the type of player that can command 16 mil a year.

Yes, I heard you the first three times. And I still disagree. Given today's market, it's not a terrible deal. And sometimes you really do need to watch players to see how good they are. Stats have their place, but the game is played on the field and not on paper.

ppa79

03-05-07, 01:05 PM

Yes, I heard you the first three times. And I still disagree. Given today's market, it's not a terrible deal. And sometimes you really do need to watch players to see how good they are. Stats have their place, but the game is played on the field and not on paper.

Watching a player doesn't make a good player into a great player. And he is getting paid to be a great player. His annual salary is comparable to Soriano and Beltran and he isn't as good as any of them. And they signed their deals recently.

In Mo I Trust

03-05-07, 01:21 PM

And sometimes you really do need to watch players to see how good they are. Stats have their place, but the game is played on the field and not on paper.

But they didn't have to deal in this market, there was no rush to extend him as he is under contract at great rates for the next two years.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 01:27 PM

Watching a player doesn't make a good player into a great player. And he is getting paid to be a great player. His annual salary is comparable to Soriano and Beltran and he isn't as good as any of them. And they signed their deals recently.

First, Beltran did not sign his deal under the current market conditions. This will be his third season playing for the Mets. Second, Soriano (who is actually 9 months older than Young) got 7 years and $136 million. Young did not get that. Third, if career OPS is your end-all-be-all, Soriano's is 115 and Young's is 102. So is the 13 OPS points worth an extra two years and $56 million?? I'd say Young's deal is probably even more reasonable than Soriano's.

simmy886

03-05-07, 01:28 PM

Then what is the best stat? Typically the best players in the league have high OPS+. But Young doesn't. Even Jeter who isn't a power hitter has a good career OPS+.

Take into account the fact that he's a short stop. Maybe something like Vorp? OPS+ just compares him to the rest of the league, but his contract is for him being one of the best at a weak position.
(This makes Jeter's career OBP and SLG even more impressive)

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 01:29 PM

But they didn't have to deal in this market, there was no rush to extend him as he is under contract at great rates for the next two years.

That's a different argument. There probably was no rush to extend him, but the Rangers wanted to make sure that Young was around long-term. And perhaps pay him back for outperforming his previous under-market contract.

ppa79

03-05-07, 01:40 PM

. And perhaps pay him back for outperforming his previous under-market contract.

Tom Hicks is in the business to make money. He isn't gonna pay anyone back. No rational owners do that. Michael Young signed that contract because he wanted the certainity than not knowing what he would get in arbitration every year.

In Mo I Trust

03-05-07, 01:46 PM

And perhaps pay him back for outperforming his previous under-market contract.

That's a great way to run a franchise into the ground. No players give back their money when they don't perform well.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 01:47 PM

Tom Hicks is in the business to make money. He isn't gonna pay anyone back. No rational owners do that. Michael Young signed that contract because he wanted the certainity than not knowing what he would get in arbitration every year.

And the Rangers just signed him to a long-term deal for the certainty that Young will be there long term. It works both ways. And the fact that Young outperformed his previous contract may have been a negotiating point by his agent. Obviously players don't get get back-pay in new contracts, but I don't doubt that the issue comes into play when the two sides are discussing numbers for a new deal.

I don't know what the negotiations were like in this instance, and neither do you. And you also assume that Tom Hicks is a rational owner. That's a big assumption.

ppa79

03-05-07, 01:55 PM

And the Rangers just signed him to a long-term deal for the certainty that Young will be there long term. It works both ways. And the fact that Young outperformed his previous contract may have been a negotiating point by his agent. Obviously players don't get get back-pay in new contracts, but I don't doubt that the issue comes into play when the two sides are discussing numbers for a new deal.

I don't know what the negotiations were like in this instance, and neither do you. And you also assume that Tom Hicks is a rational owner. That's a big assumption.

I do know that Tom Hicks is in this business to make money. That is ok, to sign the guy long term, but what Hicks doesn't realize is that Young is not a 16 million dollar player. Young is in the 9-10 million dollar range. Hicks is terrible evaluating a player's worth. Arod at 250 mil, Chan Ho Park contract, giving Gagne 6 mil when no one else is giving him a guaranteed contract, and now making Young a 16 million dollar player.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 02:00 PM

I do know that Tom Hicks is in this business to make money. That is ok, to sign the guy long term, but what Hicks doesn't realize is that Young is not a 16 million dollar player. Hicks is terrible evaluating a player's worth. Arod at 250 mil, Chan Ho Park contract, giving Gagne 6 mil when no one else is giving him a guaranteed contract, and now making Young a 16 million dollar player.

I won't disagree with you here. But in the current market, the Young deal likely will not turn out to be as bad as the others (and A-Rod's is only bad because no other team was even going to come close to what Hicks paid him and the contract then crippled the team in going out and signing other players).

simmy886

03-05-07, 02:30 PM

I do know that Tom Hicks is in this business to make money. That is ok, to sign the guy long term, but what Hicks doesn't realize is that Young is not a 16 million dollar player. Young is in the 9-10 million dollar range. Hicks is terrible evaluating a player's worth. Arod at 250 mil, Chan Ho Park contract, giving Gagne 6 mil when no one else is giving him a guaranteed contract, and now making Young a 16 million dollar player.

I'm curious, which short stops are you using as points of reference when you claim Young isn't a 16 million dollar player? Again, the weak short stop position is extremely advantageous to his value.

simmy886

03-05-07, 02:31 PM

I do know that Tom Hicks is in this business to make money. That is ok, to sign the guy long term, but what Hicks doesn't realize is that Young is not a 16 million dollar player. Young is in the 9-10 million dollar range. Hicks is terrible evaluating a player's worth. Arod at 250 mil, Chan Ho Park contract, giving Gagne 6 mil when no one else is giving him a guaranteed contract, and now making Young a 16 million dollar player.

Which short stops did you use as points of reference to determine that Young is not worth 16 million dollars?

ppa79

03-05-07, 02:46 PM

I'm curious, which short stops are you using as points of reference when you claim Young isn't a 16 million dollar player? Again, the weak short stop position is extremely advantageous to his value.

These are the 3 highest paid shortstops in the league 2007 salaries.
Jeter = 18.9
Tejada = 12
Lugo = 9

Jeter Career OPS+ = 123
Tejada Career OPS+ =114
Young Career OPS+ = 102
Lugo Career OPS+ = 92

Young would probably be worth anywhere between 11-12 million dollars. Tejada should be making about 15-16 in the current market for SS. Now if you start putting other positional players who are making 15+ million, Young is not in their level.

simmy886

03-05-07, 02:53 PM

These are the 3 highest paid shortstops in the league 2007 salaries.
Jeter = 18.9
Tejada = 12
Lugo = 9

Jeter Career OPS+ = 123
Tejada Career OPS+ =114
Young Career OPS+ = 102
Lugo Career OPS+ = 92

Young would probably be worth anywhere between 11-12 million dollars. Tejada should be making about 15-16 in the current market for SS. Now if you start putting other positional players who are making 15+ million, Young is not in their level.

Alright, you convinced me. I guess 16 is a bit much even for his position, thanks for those numbers.

hobokenfish

03-05-07, 03:42 PM

Young would probably be worth anywhere between 11-12 million dollars. Tejada should be making about 15-16 in the current market for SS. Now if you start putting other positional players who are making 15+ million, Young is not in their level.

Don't know about that. If Soriano gets $19mm per year, I think Tejada is right up there with him. Using your OPS+ stat as a guide, Tejada and Soriano are virtually identical. And Tejada plays SS.

ppa79

03-05-07, 04:25 PM

Don't know about that. If Soriano gets $19mm per year, I think Tejada is right up there with him. Using your OPS+ stat as a guide, Tejada and Soriano are virtually identical. And Tejada plays SS.

Soriano makes 17 million and he was coming off a career year. Even if Tejada made 17, that still doesn't mean Young is worth 16. Like I said, he is in the 11-12 million dollar range. If you look at the positional players who make over 15 million, all of them are either borderline HOFers or HOFers. Young isn't either.

Arod, Beltran, Manny, Giambi, Jeter, Bonds, etc.

Cuban Connection

03-05-07, 10:43 PM

.306 14 HR 76 RBI
.313 22 HR 99 RBI
.331 24 HR 91 RBI
.314 14 HR 103 RBI

For a guy hitting second to drive in that many runs...looks pretty good to me...those look like Jeter-esque years
Away from Texas during that time: .262 5 HR, 38 RBI's .658 OPS
.280, 13 HR, 42 RBI's .779 OPS
.330, 12 HR, 44 RBI's, 884 OPS
.290, 6 HR, 42 RBI's, .749 OPS.

He's a pure product of that bandbox in Texas

Bronson'sCornrows

03-06-07, 12:00 AM

First, Beltran did not sign his deal under the current market conditions. This will be his third season playing for the Mets. Second, Soriano (who is actually 9 months older than Young) got 7 years and $136 million. Young did not get that. Third, if career OPS is your end-all-be-all, Soriano's is 115 and Young's is 102. So is the 13 OPS points worth an extra two years and $56 million?? I'd say Young's deal is probably even more reasonable than Soriano's.

Young's deal is slightly more reasonable than Soriano's. That still only makes Young's deal slightly more reasonable than an extremely bad deal.

AustinTXHorn

03-06-07, 01:34 AM

Away from Texas during that time: .262 5 HR, 38 RBI's .658 OPS
.280, 13 HR, 42 RBI's .779 OPS
.330, 12 HR, 44 RBI's, 884 OPS
.290, 6 HR, 42 RBI's, .749 OPS.

He's a pure product of that bandbox in Texas
How is a non-power hitter a pure product of a home run-prone ballpark?

It's natural for many players to hit better at home than they do on the road. In his career, MY has 48 home runs at home and 46 on the road. The difference is in the average (.325 to .276). Does the wind at The Ballpark only help on his singles or something? I'm not getting that.

There have been quite a few players who have used The Ballpark as a crutch over the past five-six years. However, Young is definitely not one of them.

AustinTXHorn

03-06-07, 01:36 AM

But they didn't have to deal in this market, there was no rush to extend him as he is under contract at great rates for the next two years.
What makes you think the market is going to get any better? It's only gotten more ridiculous each of the last few years.

As long as baseball continues to gain popularity, the free agent markets will only become larger and larger.

In Mo I Trust

03-06-07, 07:01 AM

What makes you think the market is going to get any better? It's only gotten more ridiculous each of the last few years.

As long as baseball continues to gain popularity, the free agent markets will only become larger and larger.

I'd like to see how he performs over the next 2 seasons, if he puts up two years like 2005 he'd get his money, if he declines a bit or hits like he has in every year but 2005, he wouldn't get $80 million for his decline years.

hobokenfish

03-06-07, 09:54 AM

How is a non-power hitter a pure product of a home run-prone ballpark?

It's natural for many players to hit better at home than they do on the road. In his career, MY has 48 home runs at home and 46 on the road. The difference is in the average (.325 to .276). Does the wind at The Ballpark only help on his singles or something? I'm not getting that.

There have been quite a few players who have used The Ballpark as a crutch over the past five-six years. However, Young is definitely not one of them.

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't have the energy to write it. I guess people just don't appreciate the guys who hit for high batting average anymore. Nowadays it's all about the power numbers. Hopefully that will change as the steroid era becomes more of a memory.

Cuban Connection

03-06-07, 05:57 PM

Actually it's more about OPS (mainly OBP) these days, not just home run totals. Just look at guys like Teixeira and Blalock. The have huge gaps between their road and home numbers.

Young:
Home: .326/.371/.494
Away: .276/.317/.413 A .317 OBP is not good at all.

Teixeira:
Home: .299/.375/.581
Away: .265/.353/.486

Blalock:
Home: .302/.370/.518
Away: .242/.300/.393

Maybe they are using some kind of light system in the CF scoreboard. :-whistle-