View Full Version : Yankees Winter Meetings Thread
NYDCYankee
12-02-06, 01:31 PM
So with there being no Hot Stove sub forum this year I figured it would be good to a place to discuss little rumors and goings ons at the Winter Meetings this week. Better than having a new thread for every little new rumor that pops up.
That being said, what should the Yankees goals be this week?
cmaff05
12-02-06, 01:32 PM
1) Offer Dotel a contract
2) Offer Wilson a contract
3) Ignore Lily, Meche, Padilla's agents
justinvarnes
12-02-06, 03:21 PM
trade Hughes and A-Rod for the rights to negotiate with Bubba.
GIAMBISMYIDOL25
12-02-06, 03:39 PM
DFA Mariano and convert pavano to a closer
TheInfallibleOne
12-02-06, 03:41 PM
Ask Bubba's team to post him. Watch Boston win the bidding for 75 million dollars.
PinstripePride
12-02-06, 03:42 PM
Wow, this thread turned interesting fast. :lol:
justinvarnes
12-02-06, 03:43 PM
ok, in all seriousness:
1) Listen to offers for Pavano
2) Backup Catcher
3) Tell everyone to stop asking about our prospects.
1) Offer Dotel a contract
2) Offer Wilson a contract
3) Ignore Lily, Meche, Padilla's agents
1) Listen to offers for Pavano
2) Backup Catcher
3) Tell everyone to stop asking about our prospects.
Sounds like 6 great things to do this week.
Yankeeah
12-02-06, 04:03 PM
If we can clear those 6 things out of the way then I would be more then happy
yank4life2005
12-02-06, 04:05 PM
Yankees need:
1 SP and1 RP.
Backup catcher
RH hitting 1B
1. Listen to offers for Pavano, but don't give him away.
2. Resign Dotel and Wilson.
3. Find a backup catcher.
4. Find some way to somehow screw up the Boston/Matsuzaka talks. Start rumors like in high school if necessary.
CallOfTheCrow
12-02-06, 04:25 PM
Everyone basically covered what I want to see in the works so yeah.....haha.
bobbymagee
12-02-06, 04:26 PM
1. Add one starter: prefer Lilly or Meche,
2. Add one backup catcher, any suggestions?
3. Begin to replenish or resign some, not all, of the following released:
OF Bernie , Craig Wilson
RP Octavio , Sturtze
IF Cairo, Green
C Fasano
GrouchoNYY
12-02-06, 04:36 PM
Find out what Florida's intentions are. If Willis is on the block, make a reasonable offer. Dangle AROD as the home boy who can put fannies in the seats. Offer AROD at deep discount (salarywise) for Willis and Miguel Cabrera, throwing Melky and Sanchez into the deal.
Just dreaming, but that's what winter meetings are for.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-02-06, 04:42 PM
1) Gauge the market for A-Rod
2) Trade for Garko
3) Get a lefty RP (Steve Kline possibly?)
4) The forementioned backup catcher and Pavano trade would be nice as well
WTrain44
12-02-06, 04:51 PM
Better than having a new thread for every little new rumor that pops up.
Well actually I'd rather see new threads when new things happen or are rumored to happen than sift through 80 page threads of banter about those rumors.
Seeing the same thread title for 3 months offers no info about whats happening now.
shotgun_sam
12-02-06, 05:35 PM
1. Listen to offers for Pavano, but don't give him away.
How about:
1. Listen to offers on Pavano, try to restrain tears of sweet joy and laughter that anyone would seriously want him, take what they offer then later buy everyone drinks during the celebration feast that follows.
shotgun_sam
12-02-06, 05:38 PM
Find out what Florida's intentions are. If Willis is on the block, make a reasonable offer. Dangle AROD as the home boy who can put fannies in the seats. Offer AROD at deep discount (salarywise) for Willis and Miguel Cabrera, throwing Melky and Sanchez into the deal.
Just dreaming, but that's what winter meetings are for.
I'd almost agree, but there's no way Melky and/pr Sanchez get "thrown into" any deal.
We're the ones that fleece teams, remember? :D
I'd almost agree, but there's no way Melky and/pr Sanchez get "thrown into" any deal.
We're the ones that fleece teams, remember? :D
I'd consider Melky and Sanchez as the main pieces for Willis.
Roberto Kelly
12-02-06, 05:58 PM
My dream (fantasy): Pettitte, NJ for 1st, Brian Schneider for backup C, Aaron Boone for Util. Dump Pavano and Mike Myers somehow. Bring back Vallone.
In hindsight, I suppose I'm too nostaligic for the circa 2003 Yanks.
JeffWeaverFan
12-02-06, 06:06 PM
Sign Pettitte, trade Pavano, re-sign Wilson, try Matsui out at 1B...
firemanx
12-02-06, 06:53 PM
some rumors i've heard
trade #1 Humberto Sanchez, Bret Gardner and Melky Cabrera for D TRAIN and Gaby Sanchez
trade#2 Carl Pavano and Cash for Aaron Rowand.
what else i would like to see happen:
sign Benjie Molina to a 3 yr contract until Nievies or Jesus Montero are ready to move up to the big club.
Sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a 1 yr deal. Defensive is something we havnt had @ 1b in yrs, and we have enough POP in the order to make p for his weak bat.
trade for Steve Kline
YankeePride1967
12-02-06, 06:55 PM
Trade 1 -- that is speculation from George King
Trade 2 -- What would we do with Rowand?
Trade 1 -- that is speculation from George King
Trade 2 -- What would we do with Rowand?
George King was right once you know. Get off his back.
JeffWeaverFan
12-02-06, 07:02 PM
what else i would like to see happen:
sign Benjie Molina to a 3 yr contract until Nievies or Jesus Montero are ready to move up to the big club.
Sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a 1 yr deal. Defensive is something we havnt had @ 1b in yrs, and we have enough POP in the order to make p for his weak bat.
trade for Steve Kline
I'd hate to give him a 3 year deal... That's an awful lot. Nieves is ready to move to the big club as he's something like 29 years old. The question is is he good enough? Jesus Montero won't be ready in 3 years.
I read that Mientkiewicz's defense has gone downhill.
Kline's a FA.
I'd like to see an incentive-based contract offered to Gagne.
Mariano226
12-02-06, 07:20 PM
Are we all pretty much holding fast to the assumption that Zito is out of the question/going to the Mets?
I'd like to see an incentive-based contract offered to Gagne.
Boston will likely offer him the opportunity to close.
genius-24
12-02-06, 07:41 PM
My winter meeting wish list: Try to...
0) trade(not dump) Pavano
1) trade for Garko.
2) sell Proctor & Karsten high and try to dump Henn and Myers.
3) sign Kline
4) get a good back up catcher who is primarily good at defence.
5) try not to trade Duncan and Kennedy unless it's a blowout deal.
JeffWeaverFan
12-02-06, 07:42 PM
Are we all pretty much holding fast to the assumption that Zito is out of the question/going to the Mets?
Yep. I would be shocked if the Yankees decided to go after him. The only way they would get involved is if his price went way down - and that's not going to happen IMO.
Boston will likely offer him the opportunity to close.
Really? They're ready to offer a guaranteed contract for him to close? Risky!
In Mo I Trust
12-02-06, 07:49 PM
sign Benjie Molina to a 3 yr contract until Nievies or Jesus Montero are ready to move up to the big club.
Molina looked over the hill last year. I doubt the Yankees have any interest in him.
Yep. I would be shocked if the Yankees decided to go after him. The only way they would get involved is if his price went way down - and that's not going to happen IMO.
Agreed. I think the decision to go after Igawa was in conjunction with the decision to back off Zito.
Molina looked over the hill last year. I doubt the Yankees have any interest in him.
There's no available role for him in 2007. He's too expensive for, and wouldn't accept, a backup role.
So, who might be dangled as trade bait at the winter meetings?
genius-24
12-02-06, 08:18 PM
So, who might be dangled as trade bait at the winter meetings?
Proctor and Melky.
firemanx
12-02-06, 08:19 PM
Trade bait @ the meetings:
Pavano
Proctor
Karstens
Melky
Matsui
Giambi
Trade bait @ the meetings:
Pavano
Proctor
Karstens
Melky
Matsui
Giambi
ummm, no
no one is interested in trading for Giambi and Matsui is still owed $39 million over 3 seasons
genius-24
12-02-06, 08:28 PM
Trade bait @ the meetings:
Pavano
Proctor
Karstens
Melky
Matsui
Giambi
you cant really call pavano a trade bait.
jughead
12-02-06, 08:33 PM
you cant really call pavano a trade bait.
Exactly, it's an insult to nightcrawlers everywhere
Matsui is still owed $39 million over 3 seasons
Which is a very solid value in this market. If we could get good pitching for him, I'd think about that, although I'm not taking into account all the Japanese money bull................ and whatever
I mean, the Angels and Dodgers want a power hitting outfielder, I'd at least listen to what they had to say. Since the Red Sox said the Angels wouldn't offer enough for Manny, I doubt it works out, but I'd see what was out there
ok, in all seriousness:
1) Listen to offers for Pavano.... Better bring an expensive stethescope.
Which is a very solid value in this market. If we could get good pitching for him, I'd think about that, although I'm not taking into account all the Japanese money bull................ and whatever
I mean, the Angels and Dodgers want a power hitting outfielder, I'd at least listen to what they had to say. Since the Red Sox said the Angels wouldn't offer enough for Manny, I doubt it works out, but I'd see what was out there
You are also not taking into account he has a full no-trade clause.
Matsui is not going anyway. I am surprised that some people still don't get that and continue to bring his name up as trade bait.
You are also not taking into account he has a full no-trade clause.
Andddd it turns out you are completely right
Agreed. I think the decision to go after Igawa was in conjunction with the decision to back off Zito.
Maybe, but at this point, I don't know how the two can be mentioned in the same sentence.
what about Rasner, Clippard, and Sanchez as trade bait?
It seems the Yanks have a lot of pitching talent near the surface of the majors. There isn't, and won't be, room for them all. Some of them should be dealt at some point.
Also, if we pursue someone like Garko, does that make Duncan expendable?
If they trade Sanchez, they better get a star or near star under 30 in return.
If they trade Sanchez, they better get a star or near star under 30 in return.
Agreed. We traded a star (albeit not young) to get him.
hellonewman
12-02-06, 10:41 PM
what about Rasner, Clippard, and Sanchez as trade bait?
It seems the Yanks have a lot of pitching talent near the surface of the majors. There isn't, and won't be, room for them all.I don't know about that:
Johnson - contract expires after 2007
Mussina - after 2008
Pavano - after 2008
Add to that the fact that all 3 of these guys are injury risks ranging from moderate (Mussina) to catastrophic (Pavano), and there should be plenty of room for the likes of Hughes, Sanchez and Clippard to work their way in over the next few years. If Igawa doesn't sign, that's another spot (though it sounds like he's a likely sign).
I have no problem with trading Rasner, though I doubt he has much value.
bambam51
12-03-06, 12:24 AM
Trade candidates:
A. Rodriguez (yes, some baseball executives think there's a possibility)
Proctor
Pavano
H. Sanchez
Melky
Clippard
Duncan
Cox
Karstens
Rasner
Beam
Myers
Needs:
#1 or #2 starter (Weaver? E. Santana? Billingsly? Willis ? Peavy?)
1b for the future (Garko? Hillenbrand? Wilson?)
backup catcher (Shoppach? Bard?)
lefty reliever (Schoenweiss? Henn? Villone? trade?)
3b if they trade A-rod (Wood? Betemit? Hillenbrand? Figgins?)
Bench (Figgins? Keep Melky? Shoppach? Hairston Jr.?)
WeekendWarrior
12-03-06, 12:30 AM
He is talking about Jered Weaver, the younger brother of Jeff Weaver. Personally I would not want weaver because although he had a good rookie season, I just didnt see the pure stuff that would suggest he would be an ace. Also what it would take to get him (he would be in a package for arod) would not be worth it. Again this is just my opinion and Weaver might be a great pitcher for years. but I dont think Arod is worth giving up for him.
jughead
12-03-06, 12:44 AM
#1 or #2 starter (Weaver? E. Santana? Billingsly? Willis ? Peavy?)
1b for the future (Garko? Hillenbrand? Wilson?)
backup catcher (Shoppach? Bard?)
lefty reliever (Schoenweiss? Henn? Villone? trade?)
3b if they trade A-rod (Wood? Betemit? Hillenbrand? Figgins?)
Bench (Figgins? Keep Melky? Shoppach? Hairston Jr.?)Hrm... give me Peavy, Garko, Bard, Schoenweiss, Wood, and Melky please!
edit: And a small order of fries
My winter meeting wish list: Try to...
0) trade(not dump) Pavano
1) trade for Garko.
2) sell Proctor & Karsten high and try to dump Henn and Myers.
3) sign Kline
4) get a good back up catcher who is primarily good at defence.
5) try not to trade Duncan and Kennedy unless it's a blowout deal.Hey genius, can't trade Kennedy till 1 year after he was drafted.
FreddyMustGo
12-03-06, 12:49 AM
who would make this deal.... Trade Matsui and Pavano for Ervin Santana and Figgins. I'd do it in a second.
who would make this deal.... Trade Matsui and Pavano for Ervin Santana and Figgins. I'd do it in a second.Um, no. Figgins is a terrible player. Matsui is useful, and we can probably do something with Pavano that won't bring back a Figgins.
FreddyMustGo
12-03-06, 01:02 AM
Um, no. Figgins is a terrible player. Matsui is useful, and we can probably do something with Pavano that won't bring back a Figgins.
Apparantly you've never seen Figgins play???
jughead
12-03-06, 01:07 AM
Apparantly you've never seen Figgins play???You must watch only Yankees games.
Welcome to the real Chone Figgins:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/figgich01.shtml
(WARNING! These statistics may not be suitable for children or those with pre-existing heart conditions! Proceed with caution!)
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 01:08 AM
Apparantly you've never seen Figgins play???
Apparently he has. My guess is he definitely saw him last year when he hit an amazing .267/.336/.376 with an OPS+ of 89.
And yes, he'll steal you a lot of bases at a 75% clip, but he's not a very productive offensive player all in all.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 01:08 AM
Figgins really isn't good by any offensive metric. He's not even a great basestealer. His value comes from his ability to play multiple positions, and thats pretty much it...
edit: Way too slow on the draw at 2:00 am in the morning, thought you guys would be too...
FreddyMustGo
12-03-06, 01:14 AM
Figgins really isn't good by any offensive metric. He's not even a great basestealer. His value comes from his ability to play multiple positions, and thats pretty much it...
edit: Way too slow on the draw at 2:00 am in the morning, thought you guys would be too...
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 01:15 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
I've watched him many times. He certainly is very exciting. Talented? Yeah, he definitely has a lot of talent and athletic ability.
But pure offensive production? No, he's not a good offensive player. He's average.
jughead
12-03-06, 01:21 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
I wish our lineup was like this, so we could have all scrappy grind-it-out kind of players!
C Sal Fasano
1B Andy Phillips
2B Tony Womack
SS Miguel Cairo
3B Aaron Boone
LF Chone Figgins
CF Bubba Crosby
RF Gabe Kapler
dabomb2045
12-03-06, 01:26 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
Huh?? Every statistic proves he is not a good offensive player.
smorfus
12-03-06, 01:26 AM
I've watched him many times. He certainly is very exciting. Talented? Yeah, he definitely has a lot of talent and athletic ability.
But pure offensive production? No, he's not a good offensive player. He's average.
As a bench player, Figgins is very good since he's fast and can play so many positions, but as a starter, he's really not any good.
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 01:38 AM
As a bench player, Figgins is very good since he's fast and can play so many positions, but as a starter, he's really not any good.
Exactly. And, from my naked eye, he can play many positions very well, which makes him extra useful. He would be the ultimate utility player.
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 01:39 AM
Huh?? Every statistic proves he is not a good offensive player.
By the way, you do know you stole my next av, right?;)
dabomb2045
12-03-06, 01:41 AM
By the way, you do know you stole my next av, right?;)
Finders keepers :D . Its the best av ever. And its staying up for the rest of the season, regardless of what the Jets do from here.
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
Yeah because anyone who actually thinks must be a nerd.
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 02:12 AM
Finders keepers :D . Its the best av ever. And its staying up for the rest of the season, regardless of what the Jets do from here.
It puts a smile on my face every time I see it!:D
Jerkface
12-03-06, 03:21 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
I've watched him play and his so called talent has compiled the spectacular metrics you so deny. If he is so talented why was he so bad at hitting last year? He actually seems to be trending impossibly downwards, while atleast Matsui is getting better at hitting major league pitching.
The only metric that gives figgins any sort of play is EORP(Excitement Over Replacement Player).
yankeejohn
12-03-06, 06:11 AM
Just reporting a rumor.
I have family in Florida and my Father-In-Law said that their local ESPN radio station is reporting trade talk between the Marlins and Yankees. The supposed trade is Humberto Sanchez and Melky for Dontrelle. I cant find anything to back it up, but I believe he reallly heard it, of course.
If its true, I do it yesterday!
RollingWave
12-03-06, 06:14 AM
isn't that a old rumor? and i highly doubt the Marlins would pull that trade, D-train should easily net even better CF prospects (Chris Young? Rocco Baldelli? )
Just reporting a rumor.
I have family in Florida and my Father-In-Law said that their local ESPN radio station is reporting trade talk between the Marlins and Yankees. The supposed trade is Humberto Sanchez and Melky for Dontrelle. I cant find anything to back it up, but I believe he reallly heard it, of course.
If its true, I do it yesterday!
Me too, but this rumor is come from George King. That means it will never come true.
JeterRodriguezSheff
12-03-06, 06:48 AM
Apparantly you've never seen Figgins play???
Yes I have, apparently you have only seen him play against the Yankees. He is a horrible player.
JeterRodriguezSheff
12-03-06, 06:51 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
How about you prove he is excited and talented? Apparently you have never seen him play against any team other than the Yankees?
Hell who the ................ cares if he is exciting? A stripper along side the baselines would sure as hell excite the fans, but would it make the team better?
yankeebot
12-03-06, 06:58 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game. Why the assumption that those that those that respect stats are hiding in the basement? You know, it really is possible to love to watch the game and love that stats. The two things are not mutually exclusive. And, fwiw, I pour over stats between games but when I'm watching the game, I am as big a homer as the next person and numbers never cross my mind.
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 07:09 AM
Which is a very solid value in this market. If we could get good pitching for him, I'd think about that, although I'm not taking into account all the Japanese money bull................ and whatever
I mean, the Angels and Dodgers want a power hitting outfielder, I'd at least listen to what they had to say. Since the Red Sox said the Angels wouldn't offer enough for Manny, I doubt it works out, but I'd see what was out there
100% guaranteed that the Yankees do.
Matsui55
12-03-06, 07:09 AM
Finally, some real rumors to ralk about.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12032006/sports/yankees/boys_of_winter_yankees_george_king.htm
Look carefully at # 3- trading Farnsworth. This is something I have been advocating for about a month and a half here for a simple reason- Farnsworth just isn't worth what the Yanks have invested in him, and he might have the most value of anyone in the pen, outside Mo, because he HAS closed games successfully before.
If there was one pitcher who might be good enough to get two prospects in return, or might be enough to get a starting level C prospect on his won, it might be Farnsworth. Several clubs still have closing issues, and his health record is superior to Gagne's, even is his performance record is not.
I would think the Braves might have some interest (he's an Atlanta-area native, and was happy there), so might the Cubs (money no problem this winter, and Dempsey not the answer there), maybe the Dodgers, the Giants, the Rangers (they want Otsuka in a set-up role), the Indians, and possibly the Cardinals (if they want to keep Wainwright in the rotation- with that hip issue, it looks like Izzy is done).
I would hope that the Yanks are at least listening to trade offers or testing the waters for Giambi and Pavano.
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 07:10 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
Yes, Juan Pierre too, he's very exciting!
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 07:12 AM
Finally, some real rumors to ralk about.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12032006/sports/yankees/boys_of_winter_yankees_george_king.htm
Look carefully at # 3- trading Farnsworth. This is something I have been advocating for about a month and a half here for a simple reason- Farnsworth just isn't worth what the Yanks have invested in him, and he might have the most value of anyone in the pen, outside Mo, because he HAS closed games successfully before.
If there was one pitcher who might be good enough to get two prospects in return, or might be enough to get a starting level C prospect on his won, it might be Farnsworth. Several clubs still have closing issues, and his health record is superior to Gagne's, even is his performance record is not.
I would think the Braves might have some interest (he's an Atlanta-area native, and was happy there), so might the Cubs (money no problem this winter, and Dempsey not the answer there), maybe the Dodgers, the Giants, the Rangers (they want Otsuka in a set-up role), the Indians, and possibly the Cardinals (if they want to keep Wainwright in the rotation- with that hip issue, it looks like Izzy is done).
I would hope that the Yanks are at least listening to trade offers or testing the waters for Giambi and Pavano.
I don't seen any rumors there, just George King opining on what he thinks the Yanks should do.
Matsui55
12-03-06, 07:50 AM
I don't seen any rumors there, just George King opining on what he thinks the Yanks should do.
WOW- what stunning insight!! Thank you for your brilliant contribution!!!!
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 07:58 AM
WOW- what stunning insight!! Thank you for your brilliant contribution!!!!
Anytime and same to you!
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 08:01 AM
I'm looking forward to tomorrow for some real news and rumors to commence.
Yankee Steve
12-03-06, 08:59 AM
Compiling a list of moves that the Yanks should consider does not equate to a slit of rumours, unless a GM or GMs take that list and run with it. A rumour is something that people in decision making positions are talking about or considering - "as reported" type of stuff.
noneckwilliams
12-03-06, 09:02 AM
I'm looking forward to tomorrow for some real news and rumors to commence.
I'm petrified the Red Sox will keep Manny, add Drew and sign DMat. It will be a lot of dough and there is risk but they could potentially be the favorites to win it all with that kind of lineup and rotation.
Not expecting much from Cashman.
In Mo I Trust
12-03-06, 09:13 AM
You're right. Why do they even play the games. They should just decide who wins based on metrics. That would be fun! How bout you leave the basement and actually watch the guy play the game and then tell me he is not one of the most exciting and talented players in the game.
I watched Figgins a lot last year, and he was on my fantasy team. I followed him all year, he is a terrible offensive player. One of the most talented players in the game?
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 09:38 AM
I'm petrified the Red Sox will keep Manny, add Drew and sign DMat. It will be a lot of dough and there is risk but they could potentially be the favorites to win it all with that kind of lineup and rotation.
Not expecting much from Cashman.
If Matsuzuka is as good as advertized, that would be scary.
JL25and3
12-03-06, 09:39 AM
Matsui isn't going anywhere. I seriously doubt the Yankees would try to shop him, and he's not likely to waive his no-trade in any case.
Pavano also has a no-trade clause. It doesn't mean he can't be traded, but it makes it a lot more difficult.
bambam51
12-03-06, 09:42 AM
I'm petrified the Red Sox will keep Manny, add Drew and sign DMat. It will be a lot of dough and there is risk but they could potentially be the favorites to win it all with that kind of lineup and rotation.
Not expecting much from Cashman.
So you think there's a possibility that the Sox could be the favorites to win it all but you're not expecting much from Cashman? That sounds like a nightmare to me.
I think regardless of what the Sox do, Cashman will trade for a front-end starter this offseason. He'll at least engage in serious trade talks even if he doesn't finalize a deal during the meetings.
genius-24
12-03-06, 09:44 AM
Hey genius, can't trade Kennedy till 1 year after he was drafted.
Thx for correcting me. I apparantly didnt know that. :)
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 09:44 AM
I think regardless of what the Sox do, Cashman will trade for a front-end starter this offseason. He'll at least engage in serious trade talks even if he doesn't finalize a deal during the meetings.
I think Cashman believes he has a frontline starter in Hughes once he comes up.
I'm just hoping he can convince Pettitte to stick around for another year.
genius-24
12-03-06, 09:52 AM
I'm just hoping he can convince Pettitte to stick around for another year.
for what money?
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 09:52 AM
Compiling a list of moves that the Yanks should consider does not equate to a slit of rumours, unless a GM or GMs take that list and run with it. A rumour is something that people in decision making positions are talking about or considering - "as reported" type of stuff.
I agree. I don't know how George King's speculating on what he thinks the Yanks should do can be considered "rumors".
bambam51
12-03-06, 09:54 AM
I think Cashman believes he has a frontline starter in Hughes once he comes up.
I'm just hoping he can convince Pettitte to stick around for another year.
I'd like to think Hughes can jump from AA to major league ace in one season but I'd be surprised if Cashman will structure the rotation based on such an assumption.
As for Pettitte..I worry about his elbow. What about his numbers in the NL? Are they any good? Also, I don't think he's a frontline starter or that he's worth the money for the small upgrade he represents over middle of the rotation guys like Pavano/Johnson.
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 10:04 AM
I'd like to think Hughes can jump from AA to major league ace in one season but I'd be surprised if Cashman will structure the rotation based on such an assumption.
As for Pettitte..I worry about his elbow. What about his numbers in the NL? Are they any good? Also, I don't think he's a frontline starter or that he's worth the money for the small upgrade he represents over middle of the rotation guys like Pavano/Johnson.
Hughes is the real deal and Cash knows it.
His numbers in the NL are definitely good. He is, at worst, a very good #3 starter IMO, and that's fine with me. The $$ amount isn't that big of a deal as it won't take many years to sign him. And he's definitely an upgrade over Pavano and RJ. I'm an upgrade over Pavano... RJ is coming off back surgery and had an ERA of 5 last year.
bambam51
12-03-06, 10:11 AM
Hughes is the real deal and Cash knows it.
Cashman has said he'll be 'careful' with Hughes in 2006. You can infer what you think that means. I don't think Cashman and the Yankee organization wants him to feel the pressure of having to rise to the top of the rotation in his rookie season. That's just alot to ask of the kid.
longtimeyankeefan
12-03-06, 10:18 AM
Hey genius, can't trade Kennedy till 1 year after he was drafted.
Actually, it happens more frequently than you realize - its the ubiquitous PTBNL trade.
"The Yankees trade so-and-so and a player to be named later to . . ."
JeffWeaverFan
12-03-06, 10:28 AM
Cashman has said he'll be 'careful' with Hughes in 2006. You can infer what you think that means. I don't think Cashman and the Yankee organization wants him to feel the pressure of having to rise to the top of the rotation in his rookie season. That's just alot to ask of the kid.
Fair enough. With Wang and Moose in there, I don't see Cash thinking he'll be asking Hughes to be at the top of the rotation.
In the end, I just don't see the Yankees making a trade or signing one of the FA's unless his name is Andy Pettitte. Cash has $26M tied up to Pavano and RJ and I think he'd be willing to slot them into the rotation.
Really? They're ready to offer a guaranteed contract for him to close? Risky!
Red Sox Closer Situation = No one
Yankees Closer Situation = Rivera
Who do you think has the more convincing argument to let him close? They will most likely give him an incentive driven contract that we wish he would accept if we offered it.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 11:02 AM
I'm looking forward to tomorrow for some real news and rumors to commence.
Ditto...
Apparantly you've never seen Figgins play???Don't blame him for the Fox news team poisoning his mind. They were the sole reason everyone knew about the Red Sox WS drought because they would show it everytime. After every game you always heard someone repeat something Joe Buck or Tim McCarver pulled out of their ***.
As a point of note, the Yankees send by far the least amount of executives to the WM, compared to other clubs. Most teams have at least ten to twelve execs on site. In some years, the Yanks send only Cashman- and have not sent anyone several times.
Because of Orlando's proximity to Tampa, I believe the Yanks will have a small handful of people in town tomorrow.
Matsui55
12-03-06, 11:07 AM
Actually, it happens more frequently than you realize - its the ubiquitous PTBNL trade.
"The Yankees trade so-and-so and a player to be named later to . . ."
Except that PTBNL trades have to be completed within 3 months (in other words, name the player and file the paperwork to complete the deal), with another short extension possible (I think it is one month). Given that anyone drafted in the June draft likely would not have signed until mid-June or later (and Kennedy didn't sign until MUCH later than that), that's not possible.
Yankees1962
12-03-06, 11:15 AM
As a point of note, the Yankees send by far the least amount of executives to the WM, compared to other clubs. Most teams have at least ten to twelve execs on site. In some years, the Yanks send only Cashman- and have not sent anyone several times.
Because of Orlando's proximity to Tampa, I believe the Yanks will have a small handful of people in town tomorrow.
That was when Steinbrenner would want to punish Cashman, but I think things will be different this year. I expect Cashman to be there with his closest assistants and probably some of his major league scouting personnel.
That was when Steinbrenner would want to punish Cashman, but I think things will be different this year. I expect Cashman to be there with his closest assistants and probably some of his major league scouting personnel.
No, it was because he didn't want the agents holding court and using the Yanks as leverage when they had no real intent to sign with NY.
Cashman attended the meetings by himself in California a few years ago, and with one person in Dallas last season. It will be small. Another tidbit is that the Yanks are the ONLY team that does not hold a party at the Meetings for their affiliates and clients that are present.
Yankees1962
12-03-06, 11:30 AM
No, it was because he didn't want the agents holding court and using the Yanks as leverage when they had no real intent to sign with NY.
Cashman attended the meetings by himself in California a few years ago, and with one person in Dallas last season. It will be small. Another tidbit is that the Yanks are the ONLY team that does not hold a party at the Meetings for their affiliates and clients that are present.
No, it was for punishment reasons too.
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 11:34 AM
No, it was for punishment reasons too.
I agree. I believe both were factors.
There was something in the Daily News today about the Yankees possibly dangling Farnsworth at the meetings. I'm not sure how smart it would be considering he is coming off a subpar season and the Yankees would essentially be selling low.
There was something in the Daily News today about the Yankees possibly dangling Farnsworth at the meetings. I'm not sure how smart it would be considering he is coming off a subpar season and the Yankees would essentially be selling low.Davios, I sort of agree, but it's almose impossible to sell low on anyone with a fixed contract right now. This market is crazy!
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 11:48 AM
I'd rather trade Proctor then Farnsworth...
cmaff05
12-03-06, 11:50 AM
Farnsworth > Proctor
If you have to trade one, trade Proctor. His value is probably higher despite IMO being a worse reliever.
I'd rather trade Proctor then Farnsworth...
The article also mentions that they would trade Farnsworth with the intention of giving his job to Proctor. I have said since last season that I fully expect Proctor to fall on his face this season after the ridiculous overuse. Dealing Proctor would be the smartest move, but it may also be Cashman's attempt to further cut payroll. Who really knows.
noneckwilliams
12-03-06, 12:07 PM
So you think there's a possibility that the Sox could be the favorites to win it all but you're not expecting much from Cashman? That sounds like a nightmare to me.
I think regardless of what the Sox do, Cashman will trade for a front-end starter this offseason. He'll at least engage in serious trade talks even if he doesn't finalize a deal during the meetings.
You can't land frontline starters without paying a substantial price. You're talking about dealing ARod or Hughes +. I'd be against dealing either and I don't think Cash will do it either. That's why I expect very little from these meetings.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 01:01 PM
Farnsworth > Proctor
If you have to trade one, trade Proctor. His value is probably higher despite IMO being a worse reliever.
I think they are about equal and it depends on what you can get back for them.
One doesn't trade away bullpen depth unless they are going to get something truly valuable in return. Proctor's value will never be higher but I have serious doubts that Farnsworth, Bruney and Britton can replace his contribution.
If we do tinker with the bullpen, I'd like to see the Yanks ship Mike Myers away and sign Steve Kline. Also, I'd like to give Villone an opportunity to return but only as a lefty specialist. I'm almost certainly in the minority here but I would also like to invite Tanyon to spring training and give him an opportunity to compete with Britton and the 2nd lefty for a bullpen spot. I know hard-throwing righties are a dime a dozen but Tanyon has earned a spot in Torre's dream pen and he might still have something left in the tank.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 01:25 PM
What's Sturtze's job in the bullpen?
Designed Run Giver-uper?
What's Sturtze's job in the bullpen?
Designed Run Giver-uper?
He was pretty good for us during some stretches of 2004-2005, there is no harm in giving him an ST invite.
PJMPirate
12-03-06, 01:32 PM
What's Sturtze's job in the bullpen?
Designed Run Giver-uper?
Hahah, I can imagine that conversation in the dugout.
Mattingly: Skip, we're winning by twelve runs. We don't want to be bad sports and show these guys up.
Torre: You're right. Get Sturtze up.
Seriously, though, I agree that there's no harm in offering him a tryout.
One doesn't trade away bullpen depth unless they are going to get something truly valuable in return. Proctor's value will never be higher but I have serious doubts that Farnsworth, Bruney and Britton can replace his contribution.
If we do tinker with the bullpen, I'd like to see the Yanks ship Mike Myers away and sign Steve Kline. Also, I'd like to give Villone an opportunity to return but only as a lefty specialist. I'm almost certainly in the minority here but I would also like to invite Tanyon to spring training and give him an opportunity to compete with Britton and the 2nd lefty for a bullpen spot. I know hard-throwing righties are a dime a dozen but Tanyon has earned a spot in Torre's dream pen and he might still have something left in the tank.
How so? On the basis of past performance or because of his spilled blood in the Boston fracas?
yankeebot
12-03-06, 01:33 PM
He was pretty good for us during some stretches of 2004-2005, there is no harm in giving him an ST invite.
Yes there is. He could have enough good outings to convince Joe to convince Cashman to carry him on the team. He is not a good pitcher. His few good stretches were an aberration.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 01:33 PM
Hahah, I can imagine that conversation in the dugout.
Mattingly: Skip, we're winning by twelve runs. We don't want to be bad sports and show these guys up.
Torre: You're right. Get Sturtze up.
Seriously, though, I agree that there's no harm in offering him a tryout.
The harm is Torre has man love for Sturtze and will pitch him in close games.
How so? On the basis of past performance or because of his spilled blood in the Boston fracas?
Ask Torre, Tanyon somehow earned Joe's trust while being wildly inconsistent.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 01:35 PM
He was pretty good for us during some stretches of 2004-2005, there is no harm in giving him an ST invite.
There is harm when Joe Torre runs him out to the mound every other game in 2007 because of something he did in 2004-2005 that was not anywhere near his career norm and he gives up runs by the truckload and Joe Torre keeps putting him on the mound.
There is harm when Joe Torre runs him out to the mound every other game in 2007 because of something he did in 2004-2005 that was not anywhere near his career norm and he gives up runs by the truckload and Joe Torre keeps putting him on the mound.
An invitation to ST doesn't mean a roster spot. If he proves he is healthy and is the same guy he was two seasons ago, he might be an option. If Britton is remotely good and consistent, he should get the spot. Then again, if we get a 2nd lefty, there won't be a spot to compete for.
yankeebot
12-03-06, 01:43 PM
An invitation to ST doesn't mean a roster spot. If he proves he is healthy and is the same guy he was two seasons ago, he might be an option. If Britton is remotely good and consistent, he should get the spot. Then again, if we get a 2nd lefty, there won't be a spot to compete for.
Joe will never choose youth over veteren-ness unless he is forced to due to circumstances or a mandate from above.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 01:47 PM
An invitation to ST doesn't mean a roster spot. If he proves he is healthy and is the same guy he was two seasons ago, he might be an option.
The year he pitched to a 4.73 ERA?
cmaff05
12-03-06, 01:51 PM
An invitation to ST doesn't mean a roster spot. If he proves he is healthy and is the same guy he was two seasons ago, he might be an option. If Britton is remotely good and consistent, he should get the spot. Then again, if we get a 2nd lefty, there won't be a spot to compete for.
What was he two seasons ago? In 2004 he had a 5.73 ERA. In 2005 he had a 4.73 ERA. How is this enticing to us? It's not like we are talking about Dennys Reyes 2006 here.
He had a couple of months where he was pretty good for us. I'm not saying he deserves a roster spot, but why the opposition to inviting him to spring training?
ring403
12-03-06, 01:58 PM
There was something in the Daily News today about the Yankees possibly dangling Farnsworth at the meetings. I'm not sure how smart it would be considering he is coming off a subpar season and the Yankees would essentially be selling low.I don't know if this new Farnsworth rumor has any weight to it, but it has been fascinating to hear Scott Proctor's name mentioned so prominently in seemingly every tabloid article this offseason. First, he's being groomed for a spot in the rotation, and now he's ready to step in as Mo's setup man.
I don't think there is any doubt that Proctor is being seriously hyped by the Yankees. Perhaps instead of selling Farnsworth low, the real intent here is to sell Proctor high.
Guess we'll find out soon enough.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 01:59 PM
He had a couple of months where he was pretty good for us. I'm not saying he deserves a roster spot, but why the opposition to inviting him to spring training?
What happened when we invited Scott Erickson to Spring Training?
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 02:00 PM
He had a couple of months where he was pretty good for us.
And four where he was awful.
but why the opposition to inviting him to spring training?
Because he'll get a roster spot?
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 02:02 PM
What happened when we invited Scott Erickson to Spring Training?
Or Donovan Osborne?
What happened when we invited Scott Erickson to Spring Training?
I'm not going to continue this debate any longer. The point of a spring training invitation is to see if a player can contribute in a meaningful way. Sturtze has had his moments, if he sucks, we can cut him.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 02:06 PM
I'm not going to continue this debate any longer. The point of a spring training invitation is to see if a player can contribute in a meaningful way. Sturtze has had his moments, if he sucks, cut him.
This never happens. If someone did something once, they have to prove over and over and over and over again that they suck before they go away. Look how long it took us to rid ourselves of Aaron Small last year. It took almost three years to get rid of Bubba.
This never happens. If someone did something once, they have to prove over and over and over and over again that they suck before they go away. Look how long it took us to rid ourselves of Aaron Small last year. It took almost three years to get rid of Bubba.
Sometimes the 25th man is awful, sometimes they contribute. Sturtze will probably be awful but compared to the rest of the ST filler we've had the past few years, there was a brief time when he was a decent middle reliever.
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 02:11 PM
Sometimes the 25th man is awful, sometimes they contribute. Sturtze will probably be awful but compared to the rest of the ST filler we've had the past few years, there was a brief time when he was a decent middle reliever.
We need our 25th man to either have 40 HR with 140 RBI or win 20 games or save 50 if he's a pitcher :P
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 02:15 PM
Sometimes the 25th man is awful,
Of course. But ideally, the goal should be to at least try to find someone that isn't. Inserting someone we know to be awful is worse than going with the unknown.
Joe will never choose youth over veteren-ness unless he is forced to due to circumstances or a mandate from above.
Somehow, I sense that Joe will be on a much shorter leash in terms of how he handles his lineup than was previously the case.
yankeebot
12-03-06, 02:32 PM
Somehow, I sense that Joe will be on a much shorter leash in terms of how he handles his lineup than was previously the case.
From your keyboard to Brian Cashman's ears but I doubt it.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 02:44 PM
Sometimes the 25th man is awful, sometimes they contribute. Sturtze will probably be awful but compared to the rest of the ST filler we've had the past few years, there was a brief time when he was a decent middle reliever.
Difference is that this year Sturtze will be blocking someone like JB Cox or Rasner, someone that can actually help this team.
JL25and3
12-03-06, 02:56 PM
One doesn't trade away bullpen depth unless they are going to get something truly valuable in return.
I completely disagree. I think bullpen depth is one of the best commodities to try to trade. First off, middle relievers are generally extremely inconsistent from one year to the next. Second, bullpen depth is ridiculously overvalued these days - look at what Cincinnati gave up to get two medium relievers last year. And finally, it's the easiest area to fill with minor league free agents, non-roster invitees, and so on. Sign up everyone with a decent arm, let them all throw and see who sticks.
Maybe it is just me, but Veras showed me more in his brief stint than Sturtze ever did in his entire time with the Yanks.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 03:47 PM
Good news:
I think there's a chance Cashman could trade Pavano this week. It's telling how much he has been pumping him up in public. The state of the pitching market is such that Pavano actually has value. Cashman also has a history of banishing players who didn't fit in (Contreras, Womack, Wright, etc.).
http://www.lohud.com/blogs/lohudyankees.html
I definitely see where their could be value in Pavano, especially say if the Yankees were to throw an additional 5 mil in the deal. Maybe Texas is desperate enough to give up Danks...
genius-24
12-03-06, 03:47 PM
Maybe it is just me, but Veras showed me more in his brief stint than Sturtze ever did in his entire time with the Yanks.
I second that.
genius-24
12-03-06, 03:50 PM
Good news:
http://www.lohud.com/blogs/lohudyankees.html
I definitely see where their could be value in Pavano, especially say if the Yankees were to throw an additional 5 mil in the deal. Maybe Texas is desperate enough to give up Danks...
so the question is...if there is an offer on the table should cash wait it out untill ST when Pavano shows he can pitch so we get more in trade?...or... should we just get rid of him so he doesnt further get injured an f**k up our payroll?
ABCBaseball
12-03-06, 03:51 PM
so the question is...if there is an offer on the table should cash wait it out untill ST when Pavano shows he can pitch so we get more in trade?...or... should we just get rid of him so he doesnt further get injured an f**k up our payroll?Get Rid of him.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 03:54 PM
I'd only trade away Pavano if we got something good back. No use trading him away if we get fleeced. We need starter depth, even if Pavano hasn't pitched in a year (as odd as that sounds). Pavano is better than Karstens and Rasner.
ABCBaseball
12-03-06, 03:55 PM
Pavano is better than Karstens and Rasner.I wouldn't be so sure of that...
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't be so sure of that...
I would also need to see Pavano pitch to see how good he is.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't be so sure of that...
Yes, he most definitely is. As much as everybody doesn't like Pavano here, he's got better stuff and command than both Karstens and Rasner.
genius-24
12-03-06, 03:56 PM
Pavano is better than Karstens and Rasner. when he is healthy...................................................................................................???
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 03:57 PM
so the question is...if there is an offer on the table should cash wait it out untill ST when Pavano shows he can pitch so we get more in trade?...or... should we just get rid of him so he doesnt further get injured an f**k up our payroll?
It depends on what the offer is obviously? I think teams understand/or it at least appears to them, that Cashman really isn't dying to get rid of Pavano, and is fully ready to go with him to start the season. Therefore, if they don't offer something of value, there is a possibility another team will or he will just hold on to him...
destiNY
12-03-06, 04:06 PM
I'd only trade away Pavano if we got something good back. No use trading him away if we get fleeced. We need starter depth, even if Pavano hasn't pitched in a year (as odd as that sounds). Pavano is better than Karstens and Rasner.
That's a big IF, if a team is willing to give up a B prospect, with a solid cieling I would do it.
CaptainThurman
12-03-06, 04:17 PM
Cashman is a genius. He will find a taker in the NL who thinks Pavano can turn it around. The Cubs are desperate for pitching.....
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 04:20 PM
http://www.lohud.com/blogs/lohudyankees.html
Matsui55
12-03-06, 04:22 PM
Yes, he most definitely is. As much as everybody doesn't like Pavano here, he's got better stuff and command than both Karstens and Rasner.
But can the Yanks count on him to take the ball 32 times a year? No.
Furthermore, the more subtle issue is whether the Yankee clubhouse would even welcome him back after the antics of last year. If Cashman has determined that the answer to that question is no, then he must move him- but he first has to pump up his value a little first.
I think's Cashman's goal is two-fold. One- make a deal that forces the Yanks to eat as little of the deal as possible, and maybe push to eat none of it at all (after all, when healthy, his talent far exceeds that of Eaton, who is getting paid very similar dollars). Two- he wants to get something more than organizational filler in return.
I think Pavano could be the ticket to get a prospect at a position of need- for example, a young LHP, a righty 1B, a backup C, or even a C prospect who projects to a ML starter. Right now, finding the team that believes he fills a need for them comes first.
Given the market explosion for starting pitching, Pavano already has value. There are a number of clubs that might accept Pavano at $7-8M per (meaning the Yanks only eat $3-4M per) (I'm thinking the Nats, the Pirates, the Mariners, the Royals and maybe the Giants), and a smaller group of competitive teams short on starters that might take the whole deal IF HEALTHY (the Cubs, the Rangers, and maybe Houston- if no Pettitte and Roger).
cmaff05
12-03-06, 04:25 PM
But can the Yanks count on him to take the ball 32 times a year? No.
Do I want Karstens or Rasner taking the ball 32 times a year? No. We can do much better than them.
ABCBaseball
12-03-06, 04:27 PM
Do I want Karstens or Rasner taking the ball 32 times a year? No. We can do much better than them.They will probably turn into Hughes/Sanchez during the season.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 04:28 PM
Do I want Karstens or Rasner taking the ball 32 times a year? No. We can do much better than them.
That's where Hughes Sanchez and Clippard come in.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 04:31 PM
But can the Yanks count on him to take the ball 32 times a year? No.
Furthermore, the more subtle issue is whether the Yankee clubhouse would even welcome him back after the antics of last year. If Cashman has determined that the answer to that question is no, then he must move him- but he first has to pump up his value a little first.
I think's Cashman's goal is two-fold. One- make a deal that forces the Yanks to eat as little of the deal as possible, and maybe push to eat none of it at all (after all, when healthy, his talent far exceeds that of Eaton, who is getting paid very similar dollars). Two- he wants to get something more than organizational filler in return.
I think Pavano could be the ticket to get a prospect at a position of need- for example, a young LHP, a righty 1B, a backup C, or even a C prospect who projects to a ML starter. Right now, finding the team that believes he fills a need for them comes first.
Given the market explosion for starting pitching, Pavano already has value. There are a number of clubs that might accept Pavano at $7-8M per (meaning the Yanks only eat $3-4M per) (I'm thinking the Nats, the Pirates, the Mariners, the Royals and maybe the Giants), and a smaller group of competitive teams short on starters that might take the whole deal IF HEALTHY (the Cubs, the Rangers, and maybe Houston- if no Pettitte and Roger).
Could the Mets be a match for Pavano? (Yes, yes I am aware they rarely make trades)
Cashman is a genius. He will find a taker in the NL who thinks Pavano can turn it around. The Cubs are desperate for pitching.....
They already have to deal with Prior and Wood, why would they want Pavano?
kobayashimaru
12-03-06, 04:37 PM
They already have to deal with Prior and Wood, why would they want Pavano?
They are trying to sign schmidt...
Steph19
12-03-06, 04:37 PM
They already have to deal with Prior and Wood, why would they want Pavano?
To unite the trifecta. It's meant to be. Pavano is the perfect third starter after those two guys.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 04:39 PM
Good news:
http://www.lohud.com/blogs/lohudyankees.html
I definitely see where their could be value in Pavano, especially say if the Yankees were to throw an additional 5 mil in the deal. Maybe Texas is desperate enough to give up Danks...
If Cashman rids us of Pavano, I will propose marriage.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 04:41 PM
I'd only trade away Pavano if we got something good back. No use trading him away if we get fleeced..
Wouldn't getting fleeced involve giving something up and getting nothing back?
Hughes2.50
12-03-06, 04:43 PM
But can the Yanks count on him to take the ball 32 times a year? No.
Furthermore, the more subtle issue is whether the Yankee clubhouse would even welcome him back after the antics of last year. If Cashman has determined that the answer to that question is no, then he must move him- but he first has to pump up his value a little first.
I think's Cashman's goal is two-fold. One- make a deal that forces the Yanks to eat as little of the deal as possible, and maybe push to eat none of it at all (after all, when healthy, his talent far exceeds that of Eaton, who is getting paid very similar dollars). Two- he wants to get something more than organizational filler in return.
I think Pavano could be the ticket to get a prospect at a position of need- for example, a young LHP, a righty 1B, a backup C, or even a C prospect who projects to a ML starter. Right now, finding the team that believes he fills a need for them comes first.
Given the market explosion for starting pitching, Pavano already has value. There are a number of clubs that might accept Pavano at $7-8M per (meaning the Yanks only eat $3-4M per) (I'm thinking the Nats, the Pirates, the Mariners, the Royals and maybe the Giants), and a smaller group of competitive teams short on starters that might take the whole deal IF HEALTHY (the Cubs, the Rangers, and maybe Houston- if no Pettitte and Roger).
Very nice post. Strong insight into the Yankees intentions. Yes, Pavano is likely gone when the Yankees can get fair value for him. Like Sheffield in '06, the die is cast for Pavano. The only way he doesn't move is if he doesn't get on the mound, or improbably he pitches so well that the Yankees can't find it reasonable to move him for what is offered.
More probably, Pavano's value is already strong enough to move him this winter, or, even more likely, after starting and pitching well enough to show that he can still be at least an average pitcher, the Yankees will move him by July 31st for prospects, just as you said. If not prospects, something like a trade for a right-handed hitting first baseman. I think your analysis is sound.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 04:46 PM
Wouldn't getting fleeced involve giving something up and getting nothing back?
No, actually it would involve eating most of Pavano's salary and not getting anything back. I know Pavano doesn't have a lot of value, but he has some value. Get an NL team interested, and they might be interested because they might think that Pavano could repeat his 2004 season. He won't, but we are taking about the same collection of GMs who signed Gary Matthews and Randy Wolf to deals they weren't worth this offseason.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 04:51 PM
No, actually it would involve eating most of Pavano's salary and not getting anything back. I know Pavano doesn't have a lot of value, but he has some value. Get an NL team interested, and they might be interested because they might think that Pavano could repeat his 2004 season. He won't, but we are taking about the same collection of GMs who signed Gary Matthews and Randy Wolf to deals they weren't worth this offseason.
I just have issues with sitting on our ass waiting to get "fair value" as the man seems to drive whatever value he has deep into the earth. Its like a game of chicken that we cannot possiby win.
THIS is seeling high for this particular player.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 04:56 PM
I just have issues with sitting on our ass waiting to get "fair value" as the man seems to drive whatever value he has deep into the earth. Its like a game of chicken that we cannot possiby win.
THIS is seeling high for this particular player.
How so? He makes 1 start next year and his value is higher.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 04:56 PM
If Cashman rids us of Pavano, I will propose marriage.
I think its very doable, especially if as I mentioned we were to throw in an additional 5 mil. In return I would hope to get a decent prospect. Another option is keep him, pray he pitches well until Hughes or Humberto could take his spot, and then truly fleece a team...
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 04:57 PM
No, actually it would involve eating most of Pavano's salary and not getting anything back. I know Pavano doesn't have a lot of value, but he has some value. Get an NL team interested, and they might be interested because they might think that Pavano could repeat his 2004 season. He won't, but we are taking about the same collection of GMs who signed Gary Matthews and Randy Wolf to deals they weren't worth this offseason.
I don't think anyone mentioned such a thing. Nobody here and Cashman certainly doesn't want to eat his contract and then trade him for crap...
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 04:58 PM
How about Pavano for Shawn Green and stick Green at first base? I think the money would be a wash.
In Mo I Trust
12-03-06, 04:59 PM
I just have issues with sitting on our ass waiting to get "fair value" as the man seems to drive whatever value he has deep into the earth. Its like a game of chicken that we cannot possiby win.
THIS is seeling high for this particular player.
Adam Eaton signed for 3/24. Pavano has some value, especially if the Yankees eat a portion of the deal.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 05:00 PM
Adam Eaton signed for 3/24. Pavano has some value, especially if the Yankees eat a portion of the deal.
Pavano has "turned the corner" at least. Eaton never has.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 05:01 PM
How about Pavano for Shawn Green and stick Green at first base? I think the money would be a wash.
No thanks to him and his 94 OPS+ he put up last year. Not to mention how crappy of a 1st baseman he is. And he is a lefty...
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 05:04 PM
No thanks to him and his 94 OPS+ he put up last year. Not to mention how crappy of a 1st baseman he is. And he is a lefty...
I think his contract might be up at the end of 07. So he could fill a hole (though I wasn't aware he was an officially crappy firstbasemen) and come off the books saving the Yankees ten mil next year.
Steph19
12-03-06, 05:04 PM
If the Cubs are interested, Cesar Izturis could be a fit. He's set to make 4.15 million next year and they have a very similar, cheaper player that has SS experience in Ronny Cedeno.
He'd be a younger, better backup infielder then Cairo. He's played SS, 3B, and 2B. He's a great fielder, he can steal some bases and his bat would be good as a backup.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 05:09 PM
How so? He makes 1 start next year and his value is higher.
Apparently people at this point are still under the impression that he's a good pitcher who has just had an unfortunate whacky series of calamities befall him. People on this board still believe it.
The more he proves that he's a bad, injury prone pitcher, the more his value drops. The idea that our plan is to wait for him to stop being a bad, injury prone pitcher is absurd, yet familiar.
Yes, it was in fact our plan after the 05 season too. Because "His value can't ever be lower than this!"
Pavano had his one fluke season where he was good and healthy. I don't understand the logic in waiting for lightning to strike twice.
longtimeyankeefan
12-03-06, 05:14 PM
Apparently people at this point are still under the impression that he's a good pitcher who has just had an unfortunate whacky series of calamities befall him. People on this board still believe it.
The more he proves that he's a bad, injury prone pitcher, the more his value drops. The idea that our plan is to wait for him to stop being a bad, injury prone pitcher is absurd, yet familiar.
Yes, it was in fact our plan after the 05 season too. Because "His value can't ever be lower than this!"
Pavano had his one fluke season where he was good and healthy. I don't understand the logic in waiting for lightning to strike twice.
Pavano had two solid, healthy seasons with Florida prior to our signing him.
That having been said, if we can trade him, I am all for opening a spot in the rotation by doing so.
Maybe it is just me, but Veras showed me more in his brief stint than Sturtze ever did in his entire time with the Yanks.
Oh absolutely, my contention is that Sturtze showed enough competence during brief stretches that he is worth an ST invite. Veras actually has some real potential.
Yankyfan
12-03-06, 05:16 PM
Would you do Pavano for Prior ?
Donnie's Moustache
12-03-06, 05:18 PM
Would you do Pavano for Prior ?
Uh.......Yup!
In Mo I Trust
12-03-06, 05:19 PM
Would you do Pavano for Prior ?
The Cubs wouldn't.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 05:20 PM
If the Cubs are interested, Cesar Izturis could be a fit. He's set to make 4.15 million next year and they have a very similar, cheaper player that has SS experience in Ronny Cedeno.
He'd be a younger, better backup infielder then Cairo. He's played SS, 3B, and 2B. He's a great fielder, he can steal some bases and his bat would be good as a backup.
I'd try to pry Gallagher from them...
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 05:24 PM
Pavano had two solid, healthy seasons with Florida prior to our signing him.
o.
He was below average in 03. He pitched about as well as he did in 05 just over more innings.
I honestly believe that Carl Pavano's trade value will never be higher than it is right now. I said the same thing last year at this time, was decried for being "too negative" and told we need to give him a chance, and that his trade value would never be lower than it was in the 05-06 offseason.
bobbymagee
12-03-06, 05:24 PM
What's Sturtze's job in the bullpen?
Designed Run Giver-uper?
what in hades are you talking about?
Sturtze was a competent, effective relief pitcher. Plus, he was a yankee who took on Big Papi, Capler and one other sox from a brawl in 04. He has earned respect from his past performance. Think before you write.
CallOfTheCrow
12-03-06, 05:28 PM
Would you do Pavano for Prior ?
I'll drive Pavano to the airport myself if we can get Prior for him.
what in hades are you talking about?
Sturtze was a competent, effective relief pitcher. Plus, he was a yankee who took on Big Papi, Capler and one other sox from a brawl in 04. He has earned respect from his past performance. Think before you write.
Hahaha, he was a competent and effective relief pitcher? You are going to call someone else about doing research and then make a comment like that?????
He posted eras of 5.47, 4.73, and 7.5 for the Yankees. Perhaps we have a different idea of what is effective, but in my world that is most certainly NOT effective.
And if we are going to start handing out contracts for your willingness to brawl, let's lure Nolan Ryan out of retirement with a 50 million dollar deal.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 05:31 PM
what in hades are you talking about?
Sturtze was a competent, effective relief pitcher. Plus, he was a yankee who took on Big Papi, Capler and one other sox from a brawl in 04. He has earned respect from his past performance. Think before you write.
:uhh: Just because someone is a good guy to have in a brawl doesn't mean they should are a good baseball player.
If that was the case the Yankees should sign Razor Ramon and he could give Tim Wakefield the Razor's Edge.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 05:33 PM
I'll drive Pavano to the airport myself if we can get Prior for him.
I bet your Prior makes more starts then Pavano this year.
At least Prior tries to pitch and gets hurt.
Pavano hurts his butt because he is to busy sitting on it.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 05:33 PM
what in hades are you talking about?
Sturtze was a competent, effective relief pitcher..
TANYON STURTZE?
Tanyon Sturtze as a Yankee.
166 IP. 102 ER. 5.53 ERA. "Competent" may be stretching it.
"Awful" is probably closer.
In Mo I Trust
12-03-06, 05:35 PM
Yeah, Sturtze wasn't any good here. He had a brief stretch where he was decent, but he soon reverted to his career norm.
CallOfTheCrow
12-03-06, 05:35 PM
I bet your Prior makes more starts then Pavano this year.
At least Prior tries to pitch and gets hurt.
Pavano hurts his butt because he is to busy sitting on it.
I reckon Pavano hasn't started working out in Arizona yet because the slurpee he was drinking gave him brain freeze. He'll be on the sidelines for 3 weeks.
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 05:35 PM
And if we are going to start handing out contracts for your willingness to brawl, let's lure Nolan Ryan out of retirement with a 50 million dollar deal.
Frankly, he's probably pitch better than a lot of our alternatives too.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 05:35 PM
I swear, I think Joe Torre and Tanyon post here sometimes...
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 05:36 PM
I bet your Prior makes more starts then Pavano this year.
At least Prior tries to pitch and gets hurt.
Weren't there whispers from the Cubs a couple months ago that this may all be in his head?
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 05:38 PM
Weren't there whispers from the Cubs a couple months ago that this may all be in his head?
I hadn't heard that but it would make sense.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 05:40 PM
Weren't there whispers from the Cubs a couple months ago that this may all be in his head?
No its from this:
<table class="s_playerNewsTable" id="Table1" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="810"><tbody><tr><td>
</td> <td class="s_playerNewsLeftBorder">http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif</td> <td class="s_playerNewsText"> http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif
Mark Prior was examined by Dr. James Andrews and Dr. Lewis Yocum in the past two weeks. Both concurred with the Cubs' medical staff that the pitcher needs to focus this offseason on strengthening his right shoulder.
Prior was told to rest for four to six weeks after the season ended and then resume his program. Surgery to repair the looseness in his shoulder is considered a last resort. "Some people either have a tight shoulder or are labeled as genetically loose," trainer Mark O'Neal said. "Mark is one of those people who has loose joints -- it's something that's genetically given to him. That looseness is what allows him to generate as much force as he does to be the great pitcher that he has the potential to be and has been." It's also partially the result of the problems that caused him to miss the final seven weeks of the season. Prior is going to be a very risky pick again next year, and he'd have to come at a huge discount in order to be worth pursuing in NL-only leagues.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&filter_teams=CHC&filter_position=S&id=3328
buntsalot2
12-03-06, 05:50 PM
Meyers won't be back. He auctioned off his locker nameplate recently. So that is why I feel we got Igawa... bare minimum, he could be a great reliever.
There has to be at least one dynamite trade with us. I like the idea of Boone as a utility player. What about Mirabelli as backup C? I still haven't a clue of a 1b-man other than that dude just released from Japan. So we should see the big trade go for a SP, but who other than Willis?
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 05:52 PM
Meyers won't be back. He auctioned off his locker nameplate recently. So that is why I feel we got Igawa... bare minimum, he could be a great reliever.
?
If we spent at least 25 mil on a LOOGY, we have no right to make fun of any of the other deals this offseason.
yankeebot
12-03-06, 05:52 PM
Myers is under contract for another year. Where is he going?
cmaff05
12-03-06, 05:53 PM
Myers is under contract for another year. Where is he going?
Japan?
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 06:00 PM
Why though?
Japan?
I demand a posting fee of 40 million.
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:00 PM
Apparently people at this point are still under the impression that he's a good pitcher who has just had an unfortunate whacky series of calamities befall him. People on this board still believe it.
The more he proves that he's a bad, injury prone pitcher, the more his value drops. The idea that our plan is to wait for him to stop being a bad, injury prone pitcher is absurd, yet familiar.
Yes, it was in fact our plan after the 05 season too. Because "His value can't ever be lower than this!"
Pavano had his one fluke season where he was good and healthy. I don't understand the logic in waiting for lightning to strike twice.
I remember the Mariners were reportedly interested and offered a package centered on Jeremy Reed. Cashman asked for Putz in the deal and got denied. He also asked for Mateo. Ultimately, he passed on Reed because he intended to pounce on Damon.
And I agree with your post. I'm confused why people still apply the same logic today as they did in the 2005 offseason. Sure his value can't get any lower...but perhaps it can't get any higher either. He burned us last year. What's to stop him from doing it again? Certainly not money.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:04 PM
I really think Texas might get desperate enough to give up Danks:
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9839306/1
Especially if they can't land Schmidt, which by all reports, they won't...
In Mo I Trust
12-03-06, 06:06 PM
I really think Texas might get desperate enough to give up Danks:
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9839306/1
Especially if they can't land Schmidt, which by all reports, they won't...
Give him up for whom?
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:08 PM
Give him up for whom?
:lol: Pavano. I think its hilarious, this could be a possibility. The pitching market is this inflated...
:lol: Pavano. I think its hilarious, this could be a possibility. The pitching market is this inflated...
Why would the Rangers give up the player they refused to part with in a deal for Josh Beckett for Carl Pavano??????
I mean, that doesn't even remotely make sense.
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:14 PM
I'm interested in the Cubs pitching situation. I read Schmidt turned down an offer from them because he wants to stay on the West Coast. Pavano's groundball pitching style is suited for a hitter's park like Wrigley. The Cubs also have a deep bullpen and can easily absorb the loss of one of their more reliable arms...say this guy:
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=349193
Adding Ohman allows Cashman to deal Proctor and a prospect to Cleveland for this guy:
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=434939
Ohman is a young lefty with K ability. Garko is a young righty with power, patience and good bat control. It might take Proctor + Cox to get him but Cleveland's in the process of revamping their pen and they have nowhere to play Garko next year.
CallOfTheCrow
12-03-06, 06:14 PM
What's Danks' ceiling? I have to ask questions until I get my year subscription to scout.com :)
Mattpat11
12-03-06, 06:15 PM
I'm interested in the Cubs pitching situation. I read Schmidt turned down an offer from them because he wants to stay on the West Coast. Pavano's groundball pitching style is suited for a hitter's park like Wrigley. .
I seem to recall someone last year digging up his groundball ratio to show he's not exactly a groundball pitcher.
No its from this:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&filter_teams=CHC&filter_position=S&id=3328
This is a legitimate shoulder problem. I have the same thing on my non-throwing shoulder, and I had it operated on. Let me just say this - if your shoulder is loose and you get a slight injury to the rotator cuff, it can stick for months to years simply because the looseness in the shoulder prevents the shoulder from healing due to constant rubbing.
NelsonMuntz
12-03-06, 06:16 PM
I remember the Mariners were reportedly interested and offered a package centered on Jeremy Reed. Cashman asked for Putz in the deal and got denied. He also asked for Mateo. Ultimately, he passed on Reed because he intended to pounce on Damon.
And I agree with your post. I'm confused why people still apply the same logic today as they did in the 2005 offseason. Sure his value can't get any lower...but perhaps it can't get any higher either. He burned us last year. What's to stop him from doing it again? Certainly not money.
The Reed deal never existed. It was simply an internet rumor.
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:16 PM
I seem to recall someone last year digging up his groundball ratio to show he's not exactly a groundball pitcher.
Perhaps he acquired that label after his only good year in 2004. What was his ratio that year?
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:16 PM
Why would the Rangers give up the player they refused to part with in a deal for Josh Beckett for Carl Pavano??????
I mean, that doesn't even remotely make sense.
His 2006 season in the minors could be one large reason. Desperation could be another...
CallOfTheCrow
12-03-06, 06:18 PM
If they're going to be giving up Cox+Proctor for Garko, wouldn't that put a little too much pressure on Beam stepping up? Plus if Cox is to be dealt, are they expecting Whelan & Claggett to really blow through the system cause Claggett would ultimately replace Cox, right?
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:20 PM
The Reed deal never existed. It was simply an internet rumor.
I remember seeing it in one of the papers. Nevertheless, I specifically remember teams being interested in Pavano and Cashman holding onto him because he expected a turnaround. I hope Cashman doesn't structure the rotation based on the assumption that Carl Pavano will pitch for us. He relied on Pavano last year and the lack of starting pitching depth really ended up burning the pen. Please don't make the same mistake twice Cashmoney.
genius-24
12-03-06, 06:22 PM
If they're going to be giving up Cox+Proctor for Garko, wouldn't that put a little too much pressure on Beam stepping up? Plus if Cox is to be dealt, are they expecting Whelan & Claggett to really blow through the system cause Claggett would ultimately replace Cox, right?
Who said cox was being dealt for Garko?
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:22 PM
If they're going to be giving up Cox+Proctor for Garko, wouldn't that put a little too much pressure on Beam stepping up? Plus if Cox is to be dealt, are they expecting Whelan & Claggett to really blow through the system cause Claggett would ultimately replace Cox, right?
This isn't a popular theory on this board but I suspect the organization's leaning towards grooming H. Sanchez as Mo's successor (this opinion is shared by Steve Goldman, the blogger over at YESnetwork.com). Sanchez can step in right now and shut down ML teams for an inning or two.
His 2006 season in the minors could be one large reason. Desperation could be another...
He is 21 years old and posted a 4.33 era in AAA. He did not have some catastrophic year last season. He is a young lefty who throws in the mid 90s with unbelievable overall stuff, no GM in their right mind is giving up on that for Carl Pavano.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:24 PM
If they're going to be giving up Cox+Proctor for Garko, wouldn't that put a little too much pressure on Beam stepping up? Plus if Cox is to be dealt, are they expecting Whelan & Claggett to really blow through the system cause Claggett would ultimately replace Cox, right?
I think Proctor should be enough, and if it isn't I certainly don't want to give up Cox...
CallOfTheCrow
12-03-06, 06:24 PM
Who said cox was being dealt for Garko?
bambam51 suggested that is what it would take to land Garko.
Braves make first move of the Winter Meetings and sign, yup you guessed it, Tanyon Sturtze for $750k.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6235056
CallOfTheCrow
12-03-06, 06:25 PM
I think Proctor should be enough, and if it isn't I certainly don't want to give up Cox...
I don't either, I was more so questioning bambam on his proposal to land Garko.
genius-24
12-03-06, 06:25 PM
Braves make first move of the Winter Meetings and sign, yup you guessed it, Tanyon Sturtze for $750k.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6235056
Sweet! Bye Tanyon
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:26 PM
Braves make first move of the Winter Meetings and sign, yup you guessed it, Tanyon Sturtze for $750k.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6235056
There goes our pen:mad:
genius-24
12-03-06, 06:27 PM
There goes our pen:mad:
nonetheless it was still in trouble due to joe being our manager.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:32 PM
He is 21 years old and posted a 4.33 era in AAA. He did not have some catastrophic year last season. He is a young lefty who throws in the mid 90s with unbelievable overall stuff, no GM in their right mind is giving up on that for Carl Pavano.
First off he doesn't throw in the mid 90s, he might touch it, but he certainly doesn't "throw in it". He has a lot of things to overcome, the raw talent is certainly there, but he still has yet to shown any dominance (or real success) at a high level of minor league ball (AA and higher) which is a huge thing for any pitching prospect. In 05' they let him make the jump to AA, he didn't respond well, and got lit up. And last year he again didn't fair well against higher level hitters.
Its not like I said it was a done deal or even likely, so relax buddy. What i did say was if Texas gets desperate enough I do think it could become a possibility. They have many holes to fill in their rotation and Pavano + 5-8 mil should return something of value...
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:34 PM
Braves make first move of the Winter Meetings and sign, yup you guessed it, Tanyon Sturtze for $750k.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6235056
Tear :(:-bye-:
First off he doesn't throw in the mid 90s, he might touch it, but he certainly doesn't "throw in it". He has a lot of things to overcome, the raw talent is certainly there, but he still has yet to shown any dominance (or real success) at a high level of minor league ball (AA and higher) which is a huge thing for any pitching prospect. In 05' they let him make the jump to AA, he didn't respond well, and get lit up. And last year he again didn't fair well against higher level hitters.
Its not like I said it was a done deal or even likely, so relax buddy. What i did say was if Texas gets desperate enough I do think it could become a possibility. They have many holes to fill in their rotation and Pavano + 5-8 mil should return something of value...
You do realize that Danks was the center piece of a deal being that was on the verge of taking place for Jon Garland. How could you then equate him to potentially being available for Pavano. I am not trying to be insulting, it simply does not make any sense to me. The only thing you are going to be offered for Pavano at this point is a middle reliever or a b type prospect. Danks is neither of those.
You simply do not give up perhaps the best prospect in your system for a guy who hasn't pitched in two years.
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:38 PM
nonetheless it was still in trouble due to joe being our manager.
I disapproved of Torre grinding Villone into the ground in August and Proctor before him too. However, I think it'd be hard for Torre to burn a pen if he inherited a starting rotation that could finish higher than 11th in IP's. This was the weakest team statistical category for the Yankees in 2006 and as of right now, Cashman hasn't addressed this problem...which is why I expect a mega-trade for a frontline starter.
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:41 PM
I don't either, I was more so questioning bambam on his proposal to land Garko.
I answered your question above in post #222 in case you missed it.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:42 PM
You do realize that Danks was the center piece of a deal being that was on the verge of taking place for Jon Garland. How could you then equate him to potentially being available for Pavano. I am not trying to be insulting, it simply does not make any sense to me. The only thing you are going to be offered for Pavano at this point is a middle reliever or a b type prospect. Danks is neither of those.
You simply do not give up perhaps the best prospect in your system for a guy who hasn't pitched in two years.
Since when is Jon Garland good? In this market I think such things are possible. I'm sure many didn't think we would get the package we got for Gary Sheffield? I think we could do better then a middle reliever or b type prospect...
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 06:45 PM
Proctor for Garko straight up is fair.
Proctor could be the closer for the Indians.
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 06:48 PM
Anyone think the Yankees may have an interest in Cliff Floyd?
Mets turned down arb on him I think and he could maybe play first everyday.
YankeePride1967
12-03-06, 06:50 PM
I'll drive Pavano to the airport myself if we can get Prior for him.
I'll fly Pavano to Chicago through Paris if we could get Prior.
Since when is Jon Garland good?
I never claimed Garland was some ace pitcher, however, to compare Garland to Carl Pavano is borderline insanity. And you certainly have to know better than to even mention the two in the same breath. Jon is a the anti- Carl Pavano in that he is a workhorse who takes the ball every start. Garland has pitched over 210 innings the last three years, won 18 games the last two, and posted eras of 4.50 and 3.50 the last two seasons.
Carl Pavano meanwhile has pitched a 100 innings and went 4-6 in the last two years.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:56 PM
I never claimed Garland was some ace pitcher, however, to compare Garland to Carl Pavano is borderline insanity. And you certainly have to know better than to even mention the two in the same breath. Jon is a the anti- Carl Pavano in that he is a workhorse who takes the ball every start. Garland has pitched over 210 innings the last three years, won 18 games the last two, and posted eras of 4.50 and 3.50 the last two seasons.
Carl Pavano meanwhile has pitched a 100 innings and went 4-6 in the last two years.
Gotcha. So then a guy who pitches a ton of average to below average innings can get Danks? Why wasn't the trade made? If the White Sox pulled out wouldn't that mean Danks wasn't worth Garland but possibly is worth a player like Pavano?
bambam51
12-03-06, 06:57 PM
Proctor for Garko straight up is fair.
Proctor could be the closer for the Indians.
In 50 games Garko hit .292 with 7 HR and 45 RBI. Those RBI stretched out over a 162 game season come out to 146. He could bat 5th in the Yankee lineup.
It would cost Proctor and Cox. Or maybe even Proctor and Clippard.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:58 PM
I'll fly Pavano to Chicago through Paris if we could get Prior.
I'd ride a double seated bike to Chicago and of course do all the legwork...
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 06:58 PM
In 50 games Garko hit .292 with 7 HR and 45 RBI. Those RBI stretched out over a 162 game season come out to 146. He could bat 5th in the Yankee lineup.
It would cost Proctor and Cox. Or maybe even Proctor and Clippard.
Well thats the thing, its only 50 games. You can't just project a player like that...
bambam51
12-03-06, 07:00 PM
Well thats the thing, its only 50 games. You can't just project a player like that...
Bat him behind Damon, Jeter, Abreu and Giambi and the projection becomes more ironclad. The guy's still developing too. In no way would I miss Proctor and Cox if we added a big righty 1b like Garko for the future dynasty.
Gotcha. So then a guy who pitches a ton of average to below average innings can get Danks? Why wasn't the trade made? If the White Sox pulled out wouldn't that mean Danks wasn't worth Garland but possibly is worth a player like Pavano?
How can you logically as a general manager justify trading away your number one prospect with upside for Carl Pavano???? There is no justification for that whatsoever. Carl Pavano is a player who has been gone for two seasons with a myriad of mysterious ailments. Pavano has not even been an AVERAGE starter in that he hasn't been a pitcher at all.
Daniels would be scewered for a move like this. If Cash were in this position and he made that deal we would all collectively call for his head.
cmaff05
12-03-06, 07:05 PM
Is that dude actually serious? So, Garko would produce more RBIs than Ortiz and Pujols and have slighly less RBIs than Ryan Howard?
Is that what he is saying?
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 07:08 PM
Bat him behind Damon, Jeter, Abreu and Giambi and the projection becomes more ironclad. The guy's still developing too. In no way would I miss Proctor and Cox if we added a big righty 1b like Garko for the future dynasty.
It's really not that simple, he hit well, OPS+ 116. I think he can easily be that type of hitter in the majors, but its not likely he is just going to consistently put up those RBIs. Reguardless, he does have value, and I think Proctor would be a fair trade off, looking at both of our situations. Also looking at Garko defensively, he really isn't good...
NYDCYankee
12-03-06, 07:09 PM
Is that dude actually serious? So, Garko would produce more RBIs than Ortiz and Pujols and have slighly less RBIs than Ryan Howard?
Is that what he is saying?
I think so.
Proctor would automatically be the top candidate to close. I think Cleveland would jump on a Proctor for Garko trade.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-03-06, 07:11 PM
How can you logically as a general manager justify trading away your number one prospect with upside for Carl Pavano???? There is no justification for that whatsoever. Carl Pavano is a player who has been gone for two seasons with a myriad of mysterious ailments. Pavano has not even been an AVERAGE starter in that he hasn't been a pitcher at all.
Daniels would be scewered for a move like this. If Cash were in this position and he made that deal we would all collectively call for his head.
Its a pipe dream, the market is weak, texas needs pitching badly, Danks isn't this amazing prospect you are making him out to be, he has a lot of problems and a lot of hurdles going forward. He isn't of the level of a Hughes (no one is), I wouldn't even put him on the level of Sanchez at this point. I think you are highly overvaluing Danks, I understand where you are coming from, but if you think its completely impossible, then we're going to have to agree to disagree...
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